The beauty of quantum torpedoes (and any other new torpedoes) is that you only need to replace the launchers, you don't need to upgrade any of the other ships systems to seriously increase it's firepower. Upgraded phasers would mean retrofiting the power plants and power distribution systems to supply the extra power needed.
Not necessarily, the Q-torpedos and P-torpedos use casings of the same size just with a slightly different shape and an obviously different warhead. If you recall from VOY "Dreadnought" it's mentioned that they could modify Dreadnought's Q-torps to be compatible with Voyager's launchers, Dreadnought being a Cardassian design. One argument on why the Enterprise has a dedicated Q-torp launcher could be due wanting a separate magazine for storage or possibly because the Q-torps fired by the big-E are perhaps larger and therefore more powerful than the standard Q-torps. One blog post mentioned that the launcher opening on big-E was larger than the Photon launchers. So that may also be why the E has that.
@@PupSentinel Yes... my post specifically said that quantum torpedoes allowed a ship to seriously upgrade it's firepower without any major refits required.
@@PupSentinelBig-E (I'm calling her that forever now) also had a new launcher design under the saucer. Instead of a tube it was similar to two half-circles close together that could launch its torpedoes in a very wide firing arc by controlling the magnetic accelerators selectively. So this launcher, right above the Captain's yacht, had a 120* firing arc facing forward. It just makes sense to put the best torpedoes there to take advantage of that, though I'm sure they could launch regular torpedoes or probes from that thing if they wanted to. One of the things that bugs me on some new designs is peppering torpedo launchers randomly around a ship. In most older designs (and many new ones) the torpedo launchers are kept close to the warp core because they needed to be close to the antimatter pods. Both photon and quantum torpedoes are not stored with antimatter in them, but the antimatter is injected right before launch for safety reasons. So each launcher needs to either be close to the antimatter storage or have its own antimatter pods, and having antimatter scattered all over the ship is a really bad idea.
The thing is that when you're upgrading a starship for war, you won't just be giving it better weapons. You also want to insulate the ship to be able to defend itself better, meaning up-to date power grid, modern/more powerful warp core, etc. The think with the Lakota was that it received upgrades to its power systems, phasers, torpedoes, shields, engines, etc... everything. What would be the point in only giving an old ship brand new torpedoes? You have to think about the lives of the crew as well. SF wasn't stupid after all. Also, upgrading an old ship with brand new tech is not that difficult within Trek. They have replicators, transporters, tractor beams and full scale automation. They can literally beam out sections of a ship, decompose them in the matter stream for energy and then use that energy to turn it into a brand new section that's been fully upgraded. That way you can easily upgrade the ship internally, and externally even by using the old ship's own matter as raw material. So you can literally beam out something the size of a shuttle or a runabout, decompose it into energy and then recompose it in the same section which was modernized with modern materials etc. With superluminal computers all they'd have to do is say: 'Computer, run a series of simulations to determine the best possible way to integrate modern technologies into an Excelsior class design which can be done with a combination of replicators, transporters, tractor beams, and drones (they DO have drones for repair/maintenance/upgrades - aka, DOT's).
@@deksroning125 Star Trek has more respect for the conservation of matter and energy than that. It takes a huge amount of power to replicate something, and almost as much to break it down and recycle it. Replicators do not create energy the only consume lots and lots of it. Conventional manufacturing methods consume way less power, that's why most shuttlecraft are actually built on the surface of Mars at Utopia Planitia. A Starship might be able to replicate the parts of a shuttle and put it together, but this is only done when needed in the field it is not efficient when one has other options
You know what's great about having a Captain who is also an expert engineer, like the Lakota did? First Captain Benteen takes the ship into battle, gets it all smashed up, then changes to her Leah Brahms persona and starts repairing the damage along with the rest of the engineers. 😉
Going through a bit of a rough time and I just wanted to say that these little battle clips you post brighten my day just a little bit. Live long and prosper Badger.
Nice video. I do believe the Lakota was in fact an experiment, they wanted to see whether it was better to build more new ships for war from scratch, or upgrade existing ships with existing crews that were already familiar with the older designs. The Lakota/Defiant battle wasn't a perfect test of this though, as both crews were kind-of pulling their punches and didn't actually fight to the death. Personally I think upgrading Excelsiors was a great idea because an Excelsior is more versatile than a Defiant. Being bigger it can haul more people and more stuff, they were built for long-range, long-term missions originally so they have a big "gas tank" and don't need to be serviced as often as Defiants which could not operate without support for long periods of time. They are spacious enough for science labs, holodecks, more shuttles, etc, but the real charm of these ships is that they already exist - no one would build a Lakota variant brand new in the 2370's, but upgrading every surviving Excelsior in this way would get Starfleet on its feet faster than having to build a lot of ships from scratch.
I'd like to think that the shields and phasor array of the stock Galaxy Class would have been stronger, but I get the sense that the burst damage from that many quantum torpedoes also should have been more powerful so even if we balance those things against each other, I'm guessing that you are still left with this same result. You did a really good job adjusting to using the long distance advantage of the Galaxy's phasor array. It's hard to maintain distance when you are flying that cruise ship.
They were... in the finale, the upgraded Enterprise D was the last to go. All good things must come to an end 😀. I think that was a pocket universe created by Q. When Picard passed his test, he was sent right back to where he was. The odd thing is, Q knew that he would someday contract "space dementia." I forget what the term was.
@@retluoc all good things was TNG. And as rbg has "galaxy class X", was predicated on 1701D not being destroyed. Picard was a different series and 20+ years after the events of Generations, where the 1701D had warp core breach and saucer crashed into a planet and always deemed "unsalvageable".
@@aaronatwood9298 I got the impression that the D's saucer was not cost-effective to salvage (meaning fewer resources to build another ship) but they couldn't leave it laying around for the pre-warp civilization living on that planet to find. Having to tow it into space anyway, which was probably a huge hassle, they could have just blown it up once it was far enough to not do any damage. Towing it back at warp speed probably tied up at least one big powerful starship for weeks. But as luck would have it a rush-job Dominion War Galaxy got its saucer wrecked so a stardrive section was available, and La Forge, being in charge of the museum and having the prerogative to choose the exhibits, made it his passion project to restore the saucer to at least look like the original Galaxy (since the Generations bridge was converted back into the TNG style). As you said, the stardrive section was much more modern, and the original saucer really wasn't that original having been upgraded by the time of Generations. Rewinding the bridge back to its original look for the tourists makes more sense for a museum piece than going through the saucer and removing anything that was upgraded. I mean, is it really worth the effort to replicate older HW just for "authenticity?" I'm betting tourists don't get to remove panels to look at the guts anyway. The neat thing about this is that it makes this timeline more similar to the All Good Things future. Retrieving the saucer and combining it with a different ship's stardrive would require a lot of work anyway, and if this were Riker's baby instead of La Forge's, where he wanted the ship in service and still competitive with new designs, the Galaxy X variant suddenly makes more sense. In some way's, Riker's Galaxy X Enterprise is the Galaxy equivalent of the Lakota variant of the Excelsior class.
@@Z1gguratVert1go The Galaxy class X Dreadnought is actually a throwback back to TOS era 3 nacelle Constitution Dreadnought, "freedom class" iirc, seen in the Matt Jefferies ships of Star Trek. In all good things, there was no more saucer separation because of how the 3rd nacelle mounted. Picard just affirms, for me, that Galaxy Class X Enterprise wouldn't exist. It was decommissioned and put in fleet museum after the Borg and decommissioned. That ship is predicated on it not being destroyed.
If I remember correctly the Defiant's warp core had a simular output as a Galaxy's... It was too powerful for the Defiant when she was launched and Nog and Obrian had to detune it(?). IF they had upgraded the Lakota's this result makes since. The power requirments for a Galaxy vs an Nx 2k variant are night and day.
😳Ouchy Captain.. eeeh yes those Quantums are powerful and was a stock Galaxy.. so.. eeh the Lakota was refit so much.. wow and in the show, the Galaxy shields had trouble often. but this looks true.. but photons and quantums not the same.. to bad.. still you did great second time around.. love the battle Captain!!! Hope your New Year start was great!😊🖖 *I read when looked it up, Nemesis they had quantums but never used.. ok and they changed the photons so in Picard the photons were more powerful than the quantums. again I am lost lol..!!!
Well, it was an OG Galaxy Class ship going against a newly upgraded Excelsior Class primed for the future Dominion War. Quantum torpedoes weren't a thing when the Galaxy Class first came onto the scene. Perhaps we can see what a war-time Galaxy Class refit can do against the Lakota.
I don't think the Lakota refit schedule was implemented across the fleet. Throughout the War Excelsior Class ships were only one rung higher than the Miranda as Galor bait. Still of value but not very survivable.
Even the upgraded Lakota shouldn't beat a Galaxy. Lakota is overpowered here or Galaxy underpowered. In the show, quantum's are meant to be roughly twice the power of a Photons, so a Galaxy shields shouldn't be collapsing this quickly. People taking a lot of liberty with regards to these ships, weapons and how they're power balanced... to the point where it doesn't make much sense tbh.
I think thats a pretty fair result against a stock galaxy class. I think we need to see how the RBG Galaxy class does against the Lakota. Best of the Galaxy class vs the Best of the Excelsior class!
I'm gonna predict this one goes to the Lakota. She was heavily armed enough to give the Defiant trouble, so I give her the edge against the stock galaxy class.
I like this Lakota, but it is missing some phaser hard points. In the show it had a dorsal phaser emitter between the main impulse engines, another one on the dome the pylons attach to, and I think one above the shuttle bay. There was also a ventral phaser emitter flanking the starboard impulse engine (the additional one) and presumably one in the same location on the port one as Starfleet really likes symmetry. Also it seems to not have ventral engineering hull phaser hard points either. But it is a beautiful model for sure. Cool battle too! 😀
Eh. There's an emitter or two along the Lakota keel that I don't believe is in the model. The dorsal aft cargo bay has two dual emitter banks. Number of torpedo launchers was never definitely stated. Defiant was at times shooting from wherever the heck it liked, even though it only had four hardpoints for the pulse emitters.
Yes, I believe one of the earlier "stock" ships in the Galaxy class pack (the one with the actual ship registries) would have been a better balance with WC's Lakota. I may try this with the Enterprise D or the Yamato and see what happens.
Whenever you say fire a full spread... I keep thinking of that Lower Decks episode where (when they got shot down) the security officer said, "they covered the spread."😆 I couldn't stop laughing for about 5 minutes. But yes, those quantum torpedoes seem to collapse shields and bulkheads alike. Edit: Quark's voice: Quantum torpedoes, they cost a lot more, but believe me, they're worth it 😄.
HAHA! That Lower Decks episode was hilarious. It's such a funny show. Quark should be put in charge of Quantum Torpedo distribution. Can you imagine? 🤣🖖
Ah, rats, I forget. It was the one where they were under attack from three Breen ships, and they were bailed out by the newest automated Federation technology ships. They were fully automated (no crew). I'll try to look up the episode.
So, pure in universe, The Lakota could have BEATEN and WIPED OUT the Defiant.... a mere GALAXY pre DW Refit is no match for the Defiant in raw power and all.... this wouldnt even be a battle realy, its a one sided slaughter! Lakota would PWN the Galaxy 10/10 times. MAYBE only 9/10 times when the galaxy is commanded by Picard but thats it.
There was nothing hasty about the lakota. Yes, it was an old space frame, but heavily upgraded. Stronger shields, phasers comparable to a Galaxy, hull armor, and Quantum torpedoes, and they probably got her to go faster too. The Lakota was an in service ship that had a massive refit. The Galaxy advantage is its size, but at time of launch it may have been the best, but that best was not great.
The Galaxy class ship purely survived due to the pilot. However the aging Lakota ship with quantum torpedoes with good piloting can defeat a Galaxy class ship.
Gotta love it how Star Fleet followed the if it ain't broke don't fix it school of thought. When they had a design that really worked they ran with it as long as possible. The 1 feature I think that worked the best of any ship was the Excelsior's connecting neck between star drive & saucer. It was beefy from front to back. Not to mention there wasn't a weapon system warp core or shield array they couldn't mount on it successfully.
The Galaxy Class was always too fat and slow, more of a floating hotel then a star ship, part of the reason why the Enterprise D lost to a single 20 year old bird of prey in Generations. Despite the age of the Excelsior Class it was over engineered with a service life of a 100 years and many were still in service past that. The Galaxy Class was more or less retired from service after 25 years. You saw in DS9 the Lakota gave the Defiant a good fight despite the Defiant being a modern war ship and the Lakota being an old ship on it's 3rd or 4th refit by this point?
I'm not surprised at all with the results. The Galaxy Class is like an old Big body Cadillac. It was used to house lots of families! It was no war machine. Now the Sovereign class was a war machine, built tough with strong shielding, weapons and armored hull and far more agile than the Galaxy class.
Lakota has some really cool behind-the-scenes stuff. When making Star Trek Generations they needed a scene where Ent-B is damaged, but they didn't want to damage their Excelsior filming model, so they glued some extra disposable bits to it. Well, between the when the model was modified and the shooting the scenes for the movie, the DS9 crew needed to borrow the Excelsior model for new shots in the Paradise Lost episode, and that's why Enterprise-B and Lakota are the only two Excelsior refits to be seen in canon.
That's awesome. What your saying makes a lot of sense. I feel like i need to go back and watch generations and the DS9 episode to compare, haha. Thanks for the info. 🖖
Any design can become comparably modern when upgraded with the newer hull materials and tech. The discovery showing up in the (from their view) distant future and being upgraded is the perfect example.
Don't be too upset The excelsior might be an older design but they basically gutted it and replaced everything with the latest shit at the time It's basically a new ship wearing the skin of an old one
Kinda amazing to think there was that much gas left in the tank for Excelsiors. Might not have been "cost effective" to upgrade them all, but that they could be more than a match for the latest and greatest (a few years ago at least...) is impressive.
The Exclesior was indeed upgraded, but I don't think it got the ablative hull armour. In a dogfight between the Lakota and the Defiant, things went to a standstill. The Galaxy class also underwent numerous upgrades during its service time... by season 6 I think of TNG, the ENT-D was slated to get a more powerful warp core, and that was WAY before the USS Lakota was upgraded. So, SF effectively placed modern up-to date systems on the Lakota, but you're comparing it to a 'stock Galaxy' class as seen in TNG S1? That won't do. You'd have to compare it to the USS Venture at least (which would be a more closer comparison).
WOW 😂 that was totally AMAZING the Galaxy class held up well against the quantum torpedoes. Imagine if every Excelsior class had been upgraded like the Lakota they would have done alot of damage to the Cardassian and Dominion ships in the Dominion War
Really the outer shell means very little as far as battle goes, sure the Lakota is going to be slower than a modern ship but it has all new engines, weapons, and shields. It is in essence almost a decade more advanced than a stock Galaxy.
The beauty of quantum torpedoes (and any other new torpedoes) is that you only need to replace the launchers, you don't need to upgrade any of the other ships systems to seriously increase it's firepower. Upgraded phasers would mean retrofiting the power plants and power distribution systems to supply the extra power needed.
Not necessarily, the Q-torpedos and P-torpedos use casings of the same size just with a slightly different shape and an obviously different warhead. If you recall from VOY "Dreadnought" it's mentioned that they could modify Dreadnought's Q-torps to be compatible with Voyager's launchers, Dreadnought being a Cardassian design.
One argument on why the Enterprise has a dedicated Q-torp launcher could be due wanting a separate magazine for storage or possibly because the Q-torps fired by the big-E are perhaps larger and therefore more powerful than the standard Q-torps. One blog post mentioned that the launcher opening on big-E was larger than the Photon launchers. So that may also be why the E has that.
@@PupSentinel Yes... my post specifically said that quantum torpedoes allowed a ship to seriously upgrade it's firepower without any major refits required.
@@PupSentinelBig-E (I'm calling her that forever now) also had a new launcher design under the saucer. Instead of a tube it was similar to two half-circles close together that could launch its torpedoes in a very wide firing arc by controlling the magnetic accelerators selectively. So this launcher, right above the Captain's yacht, had a 120* firing arc facing forward. It just makes sense to put the best torpedoes there to take advantage of that, though I'm sure they could launch regular torpedoes or probes from that thing if they wanted to.
One of the things that bugs me on some new designs is peppering torpedo launchers randomly around a ship. In most older designs (and many new ones) the torpedo launchers are kept close to the warp core because they needed to be close to the antimatter pods. Both photon and quantum torpedoes are not stored with antimatter in them, but the antimatter is injected right before launch for safety reasons. So each launcher needs to either be close to the antimatter storage or have its own antimatter pods, and having antimatter scattered all over the ship is a really bad idea.
The thing is that when you're upgrading a starship for war, you won't just be giving it better weapons. You also want to insulate the ship to be able to defend itself better, meaning up-to date power grid, modern/more powerful warp core, etc.
The think with the Lakota was that it received upgrades to its power systems, phasers, torpedoes, shields, engines, etc... everything.
What would be the point in only giving an old ship brand new torpedoes?
You have to think about the lives of the crew as well.
SF wasn't stupid after all.
Also, upgrading an old ship with brand new tech is not that difficult within Trek. They have replicators, transporters, tractor beams and full scale automation.
They can literally beam out sections of a ship, decompose them in the matter stream for energy and then use that energy to turn it into a brand new section that's been fully upgraded.
That way you can easily upgrade the ship internally, and externally even by using the old ship's own matter as raw material.
So you can literally beam out something the size of a shuttle or a runabout, decompose it into energy and then recompose it in the same section which was modernized with modern materials etc.
With superluminal computers all they'd have to do is say: 'Computer, run a series of simulations to determine the best possible way to integrate modern technologies into an Excelsior class design which can be done with a combination of replicators, transporters, tractor beams, and drones (they DO have drones for repair/maintenance/upgrades - aka, DOT's).
@@deksroning125 Star Trek has more respect for the conservation of matter and energy than that. It takes a huge amount of power to replicate something, and almost as much to break it down and recycle it. Replicators do not create energy the only consume lots and lots of it. Conventional manufacturing methods consume way less power, that's why most shuttlecraft are actually built on the surface of Mars at Utopia Planitia. A Starship might be able to replicate the parts of a shuttle and put it together, but this is only done when needed in the field it is not efficient when one has other options
The stock, pre-war Galaxy class was a glass cannon with the turning radius the size of Texas.
You know what's great about having a Captain who is also an expert engineer, like the Lakota did? First Captain Benteen takes the ship into battle, gets it all smashed up, then changes to her Leah Brahms persona and starts repairing the damage along with the rest of the engineers. 😉
Captains in the real world often have an engineering background. 🙂 Often enough the chief engineer is also 2nd or 3rd in command.
Going through a bit of a rough time and I just wanted to say that these little battle clips you post brighten my day just a little bit. Live long and prosper Badger.
Sorry to hear that! Hopefully things get better soon 🖖
A fairer match could be the RGB Galaxy Class against the Lakota but it was good to see the standard Galaxy could beat the Lakota 🖖
Nice video. I do believe the Lakota was in fact an experiment, they wanted to see whether it was better to build more new ships for war from scratch, or upgrade existing ships with existing crews that were already familiar with the older designs. The Lakota/Defiant battle wasn't a perfect test of this though, as both crews were kind-of pulling their punches and didn't actually fight to the death.
Personally I think upgrading Excelsiors was a great idea because an Excelsior is more versatile than a Defiant. Being bigger it can haul more people and more stuff, they were built for long-range, long-term missions originally so they have a big "gas tank" and don't need to be serviced as often as Defiants which could not operate without support for long periods of time. They are spacious enough for science labs, holodecks, more shuttles, etc, but the real charm of these ships is that they already exist - no one would build a Lakota variant brand new in the 2370's, but upgrading every surviving Excelsior in this way would get Starfleet on its feet faster than having to build a lot of ships from scratch.
Generations might’ve been a controversial movie, but it gave us the beautiful Excelsior refit ❤
I'd like to think that the shields and phasor array of the stock Galaxy Class would have been stronger, but I get the sense that the burst damage from that many quantum torpedoes also should have been more powerful so even if we balance those things against each other, I'm guessing that you are still left with this same result. You did a really good job adjusting to using the long distance advantage of the Galaxy's phasor array. It's hard to maintain distance when you are flying that cruise ship.
Thanks for your comment! Haha, the cruise ship. Yep, that's a pretty accurate description 😂🖖
If the galaxy shields are that weak then in Picards finale they would've had no chance.
The stock galaxy shields were that weak. The star drive was a dominion war and Geordie probably upgraded shields to that spec
They were... in the finale, the upgraded Enterprise D was the last to go. All good things must come to an end 😀.
I think that was a pocket universe created by Q. When Picard passed his test, he was sent right back to where he was. The odd thing is, Q knew that he would someday contract "space dementia." I forget what the term was.
@@retluoc all good things was TNG. And as rbg has "galaxy class X", was predicated on 1701D not being destroyed. Picard was a different series and 20+ years after the events of Generations, where the 1701D had warp core breach and saucer crashed into a planet and always deemed "unsalvageable".
@@aaronatwood9298 I got the impression that the D's saucer was not cost-effective to salvage (meaning fewer resources to build another ship) but they couldn't leave it laying around for the pre-warp civilization living on that planet to find. Having to tow it into space anyway, which was probably a huge hassle, they could have just blown it up once it was far enough to not do any damage. Towing it back at warp speed probably tied up at least one big powerful starship for weeks. But as luck would have it a rush-job Dominion War Galaxy got its saucer wrecked so a stardrive section was available, and La Forge, being in charge of the museum and having the prerogative to choose the exhibits, made it his passion project to restore the saucer to at least look like the original Galaxy (since the Generations bridge was converted back into the TNG style). As you said, the stardrive section was much more modern, and the original saucer really wasn't that original having been upgraded by the time of Generations. Rewinding the bridge back to its original look for the tourists makes more sense for a museum piece than going through the saucer and removing anything that was upgraded. I mean, is it really worth the effort to replicate older HW just for "authenticity?" I'm betting tourists don't get to remove panels to look at the guts anyway.
The neat thing about this is that it makes this timeline more similar to the All Good Things future. Retrieving the saucer and combining it with a different ship's stardrive would require a lot of work anyway, and if this were Riker's baby instead of La Forge's, where he wanted the ship in service and still competitive with new designs, the Galaxy X variant suddenly makes more sense.
In some way's, Riker's Galaxy X Enterprise is the Galaxy equivalent of the Lakota variant of the Excelsior class.
@@Z1gguratVert1go The Galaxy class X Dreadnought is actually a throwback back to TOS era 3 nacelle Constitution Dreadnought, "freedom class" iirc, seen in the Matt Jefferies ships of Star Trek. In all good things, there was no more saucer separation because of how the 3rd nacelle mounted. Picard just affirms, for me, that Galaxy Class X Enterprise wouldn't exist. It was decommissioned and put in fleet museum after the Borg and decommissioned. That ship is predicated on it not being destroyed.
Lakota!!
Close battles. I was not expecting the Galaxy class's shields to fail that fast, no the Lakota's to be so powerful.
Really need to see the Defiant vs Galaxy from “All Good Things”
Somebody's been upgrading the Lakotas weapons. That's a lot of firepower for an excelsior class ship
Ty for the video and LLAP!
If I remember correctly the Defiant's warp core had a simular output as a Galaxy's... It was too powerful for the Defiant when she was launched and Nog and Obrian had to detune it(?). IF they had upgraded the Lakota's this result makes since. The power requirments for a Galaxy vs an Nx 2k variant are night and day.
Excelsior-class was most likely Starfleet's best desing during James T. Kirk's service era. No other class except Miranda endured so long.
😳Ouchy Captain.. eeeh yes those Quantums are powerful and was a stock Galaxy.. so.. eeh the Lakota was refit so much.. wow and in the show, the Galaxy shields had trouble often. but this looks true.. but photons and quantums not the same.. to bad.. still you did great second time around.. love the battle Captain!!! Hope your New Year start was great!😊🖖
*I read when looked it up, Nemesis they had quantums but never used.. ok and they changed the photons so in Picard the photons were more powerful than the quantums. again I am lost lol..!!!
The Excelsior Refit is by far my favorite design of Star fleet ship, I have a t6 version in STO and I can never seem to part ways with it.
Well, it was an OG Galaxy Class ship going against a newly upgraded Excelsior Class primed for the future Dominion War. Quantum torpedoes weren't a thing when the Galaxy Class first came onto the scene. Perhaps we can see what a war-time Galaxy Class refit can do against the Lakota.
You should try the Dominion War variant. That Galaxy should be more equally to the Lakota.
I still want to see a Constitution and a Miranda from the TOS era
My Lakota for the win... galaxy was just out gunned n classed
The Lakota's armour wasn't canon, as far as I'm aware. Weapons a definite, engines a maybe (they did consider running and O'Brien brought this up).
I forgot about the engine comment. That’s right, O’Brien said “Who knows what they’ve done to their engines”. 🖖
I don't think the Lakota refit schedule was implemented across the fleet. Throughout the War Excelsior Class ships were only one rung higher than the Miranda as Galor bait. Still of value but not very survivable.
Minimally needed to rotate axis better to distribute impact points from the Lakota better. It would have extended your life a bit longer.
Ah yes the Enterprise B.... I mean Lakota....
The Lakota would wipe the floor with the Galaxy class. Warp Core breach in 5-6 torpedoes.
The Excelsior started out as a joke… who’s laughing now?
Can we have 2 shrikes against a defiant please
Is that the Shrike (Romulan Defiant) Clone? Or the Romulan Shrike as in Star Trek Armada? There's two versions. 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming the defiant clone loved playing that also one one bird of prey b rell v say 3 oberth girissoms pay back
If you had of made it an up close phaser fight the galaxy would have won the first battle.
Even the upgraded Lakota shouldn't beat a Galaxy. Lakota is overpowered here or Galaxy underpowered. In the show, quantum's are meant to be roughly twice the power of a Photons, so a Galaxy shields shouldn't be collapsing this quickly. People taking a lot of liberty with regards to these ships, weapons and how they're power balanced... to the point where it doesn't make much sense tbh.
Pre Borg Galaxy Class sir? No.
I think thats a pretty fair result against a stock galaxy class. I think we need to see how the RBG Galaxy class does against the Lakota. Best of the Galaxy class vs the Best of the Excelsior class!
The Excelsior is just a beautiful class of starship. They over-engineered that class of ship, and that's why she has stood the test of time.
I'm gonna predict this one goes to the Lakota. She was heavily armed enough to give the Defiant trouble, so I give her the edge against the stock galaxy class.
Good prediction 🖖
I like this Lakota, but it is missing some phaser hard points. In the show it had a dorsal phaser emitter between the main impulse engines, another one on the dome the pylons attach to, and I think one above the shuttle bay. There was also a ventral phaser emitter flanking the starboard impulse engine (the additional one) and presumably one in the same location on the port one as Starfleet really likes symmetry. Also it seems to not have ventral engineering hull phaser hard points either. But it is a beautiful model for sure. Cool battle too! 😀
Eh. There's an emitter or two along the Lakota keel that I don't believe is in the model. The dorsal aft cargo bay has two dual emitter banks. Number of torpedo launchers was never definitely stated.
Defiant was at times shooting from wherever the heck it liked, even though it only had four hardpoints for the pulse emitters.
4:02 this proves that the excelsior is galaxies ahead of its enemies!
Quantum torpedos are powerful but the Galaxy's shields should be x2 as strong as we see here.
Yes, I believe one of the earlier "stock" ships in the Galaxy class pack (the one with the actual ship registries) would have been a better balance with WC's Lakota. I may try this with the Enterprise D or the Yamato and see what happens.
Whenever you say fire a full spread... I keep thinking of that Lower Decks episode where (when they got shot down) the security officer said, "they covered the spread."😆
I couldn't stop laughing for about 5 minutes.
But yes, those quantum torpedoes seem to collapse shields and bulkheads alike.
Edit: Quark's voice: Quantum torpedoes, they cost a lot more, but believe me, they're worth it 😄.
HAHA! That Lower Decks episode was hilarious. It's such a funny show. Quark should be put in charge of Quantum Torpedo distribution. Can you imagine? 🤣🖖
What episode was that?
Ah, rats, I forget. It was the one where they were under attack from three Breen ships, and they were bailed out by the newest automated Federation technology ships. They were fully automated (no crew).
I'll try to look up the episode.
So, pure in universe, The Lakota could have BEATEN and WIPED OUT the Defiant.... a mere GALAXY pre DW Refit is no match for the Defiant in raw power and all.... this wouldnt even be a battle realy, its a one sided slaughter! Lakota would PWN the Galaxy 10/10 times. MAYBE only 9/10 times when the galaxy is commanded by Picard but thats it.
Except for a dominion war refit galaxy class.
@@darkmatter1152 I'm pretty sure hes talking about TNG Galaxy not Dominion war...
@@aaronatwood9298 I know
There was nothing hasty about the lakota. Yes, it was an old space frame, but heavily upgraded. Stronger shields, phasers comparable to a Galaxy, hull armor, and Quantum torpedoes, and they probably got her to go faster too. The Lakota was an in service ship that had a massive refit.
The Galaxy advantage is its size, but at time of launch it may have been the best, but that best was not great.
Lol. Stock Galaxy in BC can be defeated by a shuttle.its useless.
Galaxy class STNG s1 e1 vs USS Lakota DS9 s4 e12!
Excelsior Refitted! >.
The Galaxy class ship purely survived due to the pilot. However the aging Lakota ship with quantum torpedoes with good piloting can defeat a Galaxy class ship.
I've always loved excelsior ships, they're reliable and sturdy.
Wow that is so close
No mention on the episode of armour on the Lakota. In fact it was the fact the Defiant had armour that swung the battle in their favour
Oh really? Thanks for the correction! That makes sense 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming No worries! Love the videos
Gotta love it how Star Fleet followed the if it ain't broke don't fix it school of thought. When they had a design that really worked they ran with it as long as possible. The 1 feature I think that worked the best of any ship was the Excelsior's connecting neck between star drive & saucer. It was beefy from front to back. Not to mention there wasn't a weapon system warp core or shield array they couldn't mount on it successfully.
The Galaxy Class was always too fat and slow, more of a floating hotel then a star ship, part of the reason why the Enterprise D lost to a single 20 year old bird of prey in Generations.
Despite the age of the Excelsior Class it was over engineered with a service life of a 100 years and many were still in service past that.
The Galaxy Class was more or less retired from service after 25 years.
You saw in DS9 the Lakota gave the Defiant a good fight despite the Defiant being a modern war ship and the Lakota being an old ship on it's 3rd or 4th refit by this point?
I'm not surprised at all with the results. The Galaxy Class is like an old Big body Cadillac. It was used to house lots of families! It was no war machine. Now the Sovereign class was a war machine, built tough with strong shielding, weapons and armored hull and far more agile than the Galaxy class.
I want to see more of the quantum galaxy, retro badger make it so
It was a tough one for sure. The Galaxy class wouldn't be able to withstand that punishment for very long.
Lakota has some really cool behind-the-scenes stuff. When making Star Trek Generations they needed a scene where Ent-B is damaged, but they didn't want to damage their Excelsior filming model, so they glued some extra disposable bits to it. Well, between the when the model was modified and the shooting the scenes for the movie, the DS9 crew needed to borrow the Excelsior model for new shots in the Paradise Lost episode, and that's why Enterprise-B and Lakota are the only two Excelsior refits to be seen in canon.
That's awesome. What your saying makes a lot of sense. I feel like i need to go back and watch generations and the DS9 episode to compare, haha. Thanks for the info. 🖖
Great video! Thanks Retro Badger! This was very interesting, love to see the older ships kick ass!
Thanks for watching! 🖖
The Captain of the Lakota is a secret crush of mine.
Any design can become comparably modern when upgraded with the newer hull materials and tech. The discovery showing up in the (from their view) distant future and being upgraded is the perfect example.
Your correct! The Discovery was insane. A ship from 900 years in the past, upgraded to modern specs! 🤣🖖
Don't be too upset The excelsior might be an older design but they basically gutted it and replaced everything with the latest shit at the time It's basically a new ship wearing the skin of an old one
Kinda amazing to think there was that much gas left in the tank for Excelsiors.
Might not have been "cost effective" to upgrade them all, but that they could be more than a match for the latest and greatest (a few years ago at least...) is impressive.
It's no wonder that when the time finally came to replace them, they just made the Excelsior II-class. Because if it ain't broken, why fix it?
The Exclesior was indeed upgraded, but I don't think it got the ablative hull armour.
In a dogfight between the Lakota and the Defiant, things went to a standstill.
The Galaxy class also underwent numerous upgrades during its service time... by season 6 I think of TNG, the ENT-D was slated to get a more powerful warp core, and that was WAY before the USS Lakota was upgraded.
So, SF effectively placed modern up-to date systems on the Lakota, but you're comparing it to a 'stock Galaxy' class as seen in TNG S1?
That won't do.
You'd have to compare it to the USS Venture at least (which would be a more closer comparison).
Nice thunbnail.
Thanks 🖖
WOW 😂 that was totally AMAZING the Galaxy class held up well against the quantum torpedoes. Imagine if every Excelsior class had been upgraded like the Lakota they would have done alot of damage to the Cardassian and Dominion ships in the Dominion War
damn i love these vids after a drink and a smoke ;)
The Lakota is a Dominion war variant. So why didn't you use the Dominion war variant of the Galaxy class ? This doesn't make any sense.
Really the outer shell means very little as far as battle goes, sure the Lakota is going to be slower than a modern ship but it has all new engines, weapons, and shields. It is in essence almost a decade more advanced than a stock Galaxy.
The Lakota is a rockstar 🎉
Enterprise D, still the cruise liner of starships.
Battle was evenly matched, me thinks. 🤔