Switched over to Unreal after 4 years of using Unity daily. After 5 months on I'm back to using Unity, UE is great but the community is full of blueprints solutions. Visual scripting is not my cup of tea by no means, having to learn it to convert everything over to c++ just felt like more work than what it was worth.
@@Any1SL I made the switch mainly because I wanted a reason to use c++, however I found out creating a small game without an engine using c++ was a far better option for me.
I'm not really a big fan of blueprints either. I have nothing against c++ though. But I don't like the way UE built a whole compilation and language on top of C++ so they could get introspection. Just deleting a simple class in UE is like a 5 step process involving restarting the engine and deleting the build folder.
@@LukeClemens Indeed deleting or renaming a C++ script is next to impossible and I have never managed to do either of them so even I use C++ a lot in Unreal I make sure before creating a C++ script that I have decided exactly what it is gonna be used for and also takes extra care giving it the correct name cause after creation I will be stuck with this script in the project. I assume its because unlike Unitys C# scripts these C++ scripts sort of weld themselves into the project making it very hard to remove/rename them after creation. I dont know if it has to do with Unreal or if it is how C++ works in general because of it being a much older and also lower level language then C#.
@@johnpekkala6941 It's not necessarily because it's C++. It's because UE put a special language on top of C++ to help with introspection (which C# supports natively) in order to make variables tweakable in the inspector. There are many C++ engines that don't require an act of congress to delete a class. It's like Unreal decided to made it C+++ 😜. Another reason for the secondary language is to support making modules for blueprints. There are other ways they could have achieved the same functionality without the extra compilation step, especially with the latest versions of C++, but it was written a long time ago and it's probably too much work to change it now.
The different naming is in my opinion to avoid equivocity, because Unreal already has a "component" class and also a "system" or "subsystem" class. In that regard it is more convenient to use the name "fragment" which to me at least seems more correct because those are in fact fragments of a bigger chunk. As for "processors" it would be mainly do avoid collision with the existing classes with the word "system" in their name. I'm using Unity in work but always more frequently I use Unreal for my own projects, but mainly for a certain type of them, for example if I need some really good animation tools I would always use Unreal. But if I play with 2d or want to play with computer shaders and such then I would always go to Unity.
MassEntity does support standard animations via skeletal mesh. It’s used in the City Sample demo project. The animations converted to static mesh textures are just used for far LOD there.
It's true in a way but Basically, to animate the skeletal mesh, it's no longer mass which is in charge but the actor itself. Mass has some way to synchronize the actor and the entity representation for when they switch to one another using conversion processor So it's kind of true that skeletal mesh are used in this environment but it's done through the costy actor and "old" animation system. If you're on pure ecs systems, there's no skeletal mesh animation
After thoroughly testing Unreal and Unity, and spending my free time for a year testing them, I recommend Bevyengine, the project is in its infancy, but already showing solid forms. It is also getting financing. It is a real pleasure to program in Rust, everything is fast, all the ECS is well programmed and without difficulty, access to all the source code, you can modify what you want, the whole product is the same code. Folks, Rust is finally going strong in the gaming industry. With Unity and with Unreal I didn't enjoy programming, Unreal because of the pain of C++, Unity because of its complete inconsistency. Bevyengine feels different, a stable project, ECS, will undoubtedly be a benchmark in the coming years. In my first tests with Bevyengine I get much more power than with Unity ECS, because you control aspects with Rust that you cannot control with Unity, the result is incredible.
Awesome, good to know you've been having such a good experience with Bevy - I've heard some good things but haven't had the chance to check it out yet.
I recently learned about the mass Ai system but to benefit from it to the fullest I had to switch from blueprint to C++, was challenging but worth it, I managed to spawn 20k AI all visible on screen simultaneously... That was literally what I needed
There is a UE game called Outpost by Team ranger that has many thousands of enemy swarms. I'm betting they used Mass. I really like the fact that UE has a lot of optional built in systems like pathfinding and vertex animation. I've never done UE multithreading but I suspect it's not as user friendly as with Unity Jobs. But there's no need for burst and IL2CPP since it's already C++. Coding with Burst is like abandoning C# for C anyways because it prohibits anything managed like anything in the System libraries or even simple class instances.
The swarms are done with niagara if not mistaken as the devs written about it somewhere. You can use apparatus instead of Mass in Unreal tho, which is a complete product where Mass is still in it's infancy and doesn't have a lot of stuff.
I am wondering how this has aged. I am financing a project to build a large scale game and considering the first engine. To be honest I would rather go Bevy but it just doesn't seem to be ready for prime time. That leaves Godot, Unreal and Unity. At this point with the pricing changes I am not sure which to pick. I would love to bring Bevvy to primetime but the budget just doesnt allow this. Thoughts?
hi, i just started working profesionally with UE, first off, components are aleady a thing in unreal, and they usually contain logic (movement components, percepcion components, etc), so it would be confusing to use ECS, the other reason is that unity patented the namr it seems. Mass is still in the experimental phase, so basically almost non-usable for games with the intent of release
Unity already has a concept of components too but that didn't stop them 😆😆 So now we have multiple methods called "GetComponent" that return a regular MonoBehaviour component or ECS Data Component depending on the context you use it lol.
I'm curious if Unreal ECS can interoperate with normal Actors, especially its physics and net code etc. I still really don't get why Unity is splitting physics and especially netcode between GOs and ECS.
Yeah unsure on the integration with normal Actors. New Unity physics is built from the ground up with DOD and is stateless and deterministic which leads to performance gains over regular Unity physics. I'd assume that netcode is a similar situation as DOD makes server authoritative multiplayer and simulated rollback easier as data can just be recorded and resimulated as needed
About the "Unity vs Unreal" question - I think everybody should stick with what they're in right now. We can see that both engines develop stuff to match what the other has, so I wouldn't be worried that one of them would be worse or lacked certain key features. It's a bit overkill to learn to work with an engine just over an "exclusive" thing that could be implemented in the other engine as well in a year or even sooner.
Fair enough - it's no doubt that you can make great games with either engine. Picking one toolset and seeing your project through to completion is much better than going back and forth trying to figure out which one to use.
Unreal is basically if you need things fast without thinking too much, and be prepared to not be able to tweak things as you want them to be. Unlike unity, where you need to dive in a little more to achieve anything, but at least you learn and you can do whatever you want. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I've noticed after 2 years using both
This was new to me, so thanks for reporting on it. I'll stick with Unity, but it's mostly because that is what I started with. It sounds like Unreal will have to integrate their ECS (EFP?) with multithreading and a new renderer. Since Unreal's focus is on high end graphics, I also wonder if some aspects of this will conflict with what their user base is inclined to do. It'll be interesting to see the overal rate of development.
UNREAL5: Nanite+Lumen+Double Precision+ECS vs Unity: DOTS + ?. But Unity's job system and Burst compile are great, at least for me who write physics simulation.
Unity: DOTS + C# + Easy deployment to any major platform + a thriving community of users and developers + WETA digital tools (soon). Not saying one is better than the other, but each have many strengths and weaknesses and you got to go with what tool best helps you get to your end goal
Also unity is easy to extend to add your own features. So if you know how to extend editor and write tools you can do anything you need for a project and many people keep forgetting about that. With unreal is possible but difficult and you need to dig inside engine source to do anything.
I fell like the only ones who really care about this question so much are the ones who will never release anything. Try one, fry both, at the end it will not really matter, you gonna like one and go with it
Truth, great games have been made and will continue to be made with both! Though I do think it is helpful to people starting a new project to make sure their engine checks all the boxes for their project before going headfirst into development
I feel like you missed some of the underpinning points of Unreals evolution process .. the first pass is to focus around c++ implementation.. get that right then second pass is to box it up for BP or simplified approach .. so when you keep stating the multi threading point .. I just have to say “are you aware how to do multi threading in c++” As .. it would appear the answer is no. As to which to use .. I use both engines equally constantly having to switch between both .. so the bias is obviously for you to keep the Unity3d pitch going .. however they both have pitfalls with ECS implementation.. they both just aren’t ready for prime time UNLESS you are tenacious and are comfortable with going to the metal as opposed to the typical low hanging fruit approach to development .. For example .. generating a scene with nanite, lumen, world partition mixed with mass ecs .. is way more superior to attempting the same thing in Unity3d.. not to mention network code / replication in Unreal is far easier as it’s built in upfront .. However if all you need is ecs and basic pipeline Unity3d works .. VRising is an example of this done brilliantly without the aforementioned extras.. This is a stupid Pepsi vs Coke argument to begin with .. but if you want to be taken more serious in the videos .. remain agnostic .. don’t push as aggressive with the “I can’t believe they are copying Unity3d” attitude .. as both are working with a design pattern so there will be overlaps
Cool, thanks for the input. Definitely super interested to see how Unreal's ECS solution evolves, especially if they can get it into a more accessible state that Unity's is with BP or whatever they come up with
Hi which would you use for a solo project? (unity scares me with the supposed need of the market place for the engine to even work (is that true?), and unreal for the difficulty of c++.) Thank you
Using mass entity myself, I managed to spawn 20 000 AI with a frame rate of 40fps, and 15 000 with a frame rate of 55-60. And the animation vertex there is a plugging that bake animations and render on a static mesh. I will soon upload a video of my 20 000 units
You defined nanite as "automatic LOD" i really that? I mean, i saw so many hype around that though that's was some super difficult tec and never checked, but putting this way do not look that big of a deal (and sorry for my English i hope you can understand)
I tried UE5. After the 2nd hour of CPU running at 100% trying to build project + compile 30,000+ shaders, I knew it wasn't gonna be for me. Will still peek in, though.
The naming differences probably comes from Unity has filed a patent for ECS in 2021 (even though Data Oriented Development has been used in games for decades) and likely will try and trademark the actual ECS name. So Epics calling it Fragments and Processors just saves them the headache of an IP lawsuit down the road.
I would be surprised if that was the case. Unity didn't patent ECS - they patented several unique ways of implementing some specific details in an ECS framework. There are tens, likely hundreds, of ECS frameworks that have been built over the years that have been using the ECS nomenclature way before Unity's patent was approved. There was a rumor going around that the patents were for "patenting ECS" but after skimming over the patents myself, I can confirm that the rumor is not true.
after years of unity, switching to unreal i know, maybe it`s not okay to asking this in comments of Turbo, but can someone recomend good channels about unreal ?
@@TurboMakesGames Unreal seems to be able to do some serious simulation soon. The UE office even has a project dedicated to make serious flight simulation on the full earth scale. I have made one in Unity, a painful process with single precision.
I've got to be honest, I was super excited about Unity's ECS system, but like most things with Unity, it felt rushed and very incomplete. The timelines that the folks at Unity mentioned lacked any real detail and building a game with such unfinished, unpolished, and largely unsupported technology felt like a no-go from a practical standpoint. Also, what is it with Unity not following standard C# naming conventions and styles? This is very frustrating for a c# enthusiast like myself. Anyway, I made the jump over to Unreal and have been pleasantly surprised. They at least are consistent and the engine feels very polished, consistent, and well supported. I just hate those damn blueprints.
@@TurboMakesGames Keep making good content like this Turbo. I'm still a fan of Unity and DOTS, I just would love to see it become more of a priority. The lack of real animation support (IK, etc) from both solutions is just ridiculous, to say the least, for people who want to use these ECS system for real game development.
Yha 10K is not impressive. I have my own ECS like system for unreal and had 100K moving cubes no problem (m1 Mac mini). Could even do 1 million on a high end computer. Unreals character system is powered but horrific performance. On my laptop with 8 cores, 16 threads it struggles at anything over than 100 characters
I haven't paid as close attention to Unreal's development, so what makes you say that? Have they implemented other massive features to the engine in a relatively quick time while still being stable and easy to use?
@@TurboMakesGames Mainly just about capabilities. UE5 is just packed with high end technologies, and their development pace just seem to be on a whole other level than Unity. Unreal has a lot more money, although I'm not sure how big of a difference there is in team size, but it does appear the Unreal has a lot more of the top talent. If they put focus on Mass I think they'll catch up to Unity in no time.
@@muuubiee Will you and indie dev be using these features? If you won't won't using all of these then you cant talke about those features. Will you be aiming for those realistic graphics.
@@altongames1787 The less I have to do myself the better. Unity DOTS is probably 3-5 years out. Mass? Who knows, maybe they'll have it in a good state in just 2 years.
more copetsion is always better every one know that both unity and Unreal competing with each other to be honest the multiple stuff the unity have take for unreal engine like the shredder graph and the are multiple stuff the unreal engine take for unity and i thing this grate because thos competing with each wee have better tools better experience I will not be surprised if unity make system similar Lumen and to Nanite in the future for example and i will not surprised wean the unreal takes tool for unity either
@@liviuemanuel82 I disagree with you it's true that ue is cheaper and the epic game has more money than Unity company however both Unity and unreal have a lot of money and the still compete with each other the are a lot of people who still use Unity for multiple reasons and the are many areas that ue is not great like 2D mobile games etc also unity lighter that ue And Unity focus more on indie developers and unity in AAA studios and unity trying to more AAA friendly and ue more indie friendly In the end both have the strength and weakness and in the end it is a matter of preference and what you try to create
@@watercat1248 I hope you are right. I know both have strengths and weaknesses but what bothers me is that epic has much more money and in the long run they will win. Unity can't buy a company and give it's products for free (quixel mixer for example), and people well... just love free ... But I really want to see Unity getting better and I know it has gone better in the last years, but I don't know if that's enough
@@liviuemanuel82i don't know either only time will tell But at this point Unity and unreal both have large number of users and money even if epic game has more money as for the future that is something I don't able to know In my opinion thing unity lacking is networking
As a gamedev Studio, we never go back to unity. Everything is broken in unity, and instead of fixing they just add more broken features. Unity is maybe a good start or good for small Projects.
It's wise to keep the terminology separate whenever it makes sense. Remember, Unity actually holds a patent for ECS, and anything that is "similar enough" with what's in that patent can be a major problem. Feels so dystopian to know a company can literally just patent stuff that have existed for years, decades even...
Unity holds patent for ecs? I don't think so, it is not any new concept and it was already used before in other engines or frameworks like bracket lib or bevy in Rust, or ENTT in c++ and everywhere it is quite almost the same way of doing, very similar
Thanks Johnny (name of the biggest French star ever by the way: Johnny Hallyday: th-cam.com/video/Xs-_NZ0LhrA/w-d-xo.html "live for the best") : finally a video who is a clear cut on Unity vs unReal > their ECS system trails behind so learning the future is with Unity! Simple.
@@TurboMakesGames Unreal is too robust impov. For them to release "Mass", is because they fear Unity's progress. I believe the same happen to Unreal's license years ago. When Unity became too strong, they switch their license to equalize Unity's license and therefore not losing users. For the point of being robust, if Unreal doesn't invest hard in this (horrendous name) EFP (coff... ECS), i believe Unity will always be ahead in ECS. IMHO: Unreal fears Unity progress. I remember when i tried UDK with Kismet: Horrible documentation, no tutorials, horrible community towards indie devs. And when you look at tutorials (at least at that time. Idk now a days), it only advertise "gorgeous graphics" but when teaching basics and mechanics... naaahhh you only need to burn your graphics card. PS.: Sorry my hate towards it. Nothing against it. i respect who uses Unreal, but i'll stick with Unity.
I remenber Unity just apply a patent for dots Last year,Or this is no patent in technology conception. If ue5 has more stable ecs,maybe unity will only attract begginer
Unity's ECS isn't for beginners IMO. If i recall correctly, both Unity and Unreal's ECS isn't ready for production, so impov it may be for anyone. AAA, companies and/or indie developers. Regardless of being beginner or not though.
Switched over to Unreal after 4 years of using Unity daily. After 5 months on I'm back to using Unity, UE is great but the community is full of blueprints solutions. Visual scripting is not my cup of tea by no means, having to learn it to convert everything over to c++ just felt like more work than what it was worth.
I'm switching to UE after using unity because of lumen and nanite. But I want to learn c++.
@@Any1SL I made the switch mainly because I wanted a reason to use c++, however I found out creating a small game without an engine using c++ was a far better option for me.
I'm not really a big fan of blueprints either. I have nothing against c++ though. But I don't like the way UE built a whole compilation and language on top of C++ so they could get introspection. Just deleting a simple class in UE is like a 5 step process involving restarting the engine and deleting the build folder.
@@LukeClemens Indeed deleting or renaming a C++ script is next to impossible and I have never managed to do either of them so even I use C++ a lot in Unreal I make sure before creating a C++ script that I have decided exactly what it is gonna be used for and also takes extra care giving it the correct name cause after creation I will be stuck with this script in the project. I assume its because unlike Unitys C# scripts these C++ scripts sort of weld themselves into the project making it very hard to remove/rename them after creation. I dont know if it has to do with Unreal or if it is how C++ works in general because of it being a much older and also lower level language then C#.
@@johnpekkala6941 It's not necessarily because it's C++. It's because UE put a special language on top of C++ to help with introspection (which C# supports natively) in order to make variables tweakable in the inspector. There are many C++ engines that don't require an act of congress to delete a class. It's like Unreal decided to made it C+++ 😜. Another reason for the secondary language is to support making modules for blueprints. There are other ways they could have achieved the same functionality without the extra compilation step, especially with the latest versions of C++, but it was written a long time ago and it's probably too much work to change it now.
The different naming is in my opinion to avoid equivocity, because Unreal already has a "component" class and also a "system" or "subsystem" class. In that regard it is more convenient to use the name "fragment" which to me at least seems more correct because those are in fact fragments of a bigger chunk. As for "processors" it would be mainly do avoid collision with the existing classes with the word "system" in their name. I'm using Unity in work but always more frequently I use Unreal for my own projects, but mainly for a certain type of them, for example if I need some really good animation tools I would always use Unreal. But if I play with 2d or want to play with computer shaders and such then I would always go to Unity.
Appreciate the input! 👍
@@TurboMakesGames love your channel, great work you do!
Does Unreal use 64 or 48 bit transform in shaders and vertex positions to build areas above 1024m X 1024m in 3d without jitter?
MassEntity does support standard animations via skeletal mesh. It’s used in the City Sample demo project. The animations converted to static mesh textures are just used for far LOD there.
Good to know, thanks for the clarification!
It's true in a way but
Basically, to animate the skeletal mesh, it's no longer mass which is in charge but the actor itself. Mass has some way to synchronize the actor and the entity representation for when they switch to one another using conversion processor
So it's kind of true that skeletal mesh are used in this environment but it's done through the costy actor and "old" animation system.
If you're on pure ecs systems, there's no skeletal mesh animation
Wow, your video making skills have really improved a lot! Really like this style of video and the way you presented it!
Hey thanks! Been having a ton of fun making them - glad you enjoyed this one 😊
i feel like i'm missing half of the fun if I don't know UE5
Unreal is powerful forsure, but you can still have all the fun with Unity 😁😁
Not everyone would agree that C++ is fun lol. Though Rust has come along to ease the pain but no serious engine for game devs has emerged from it yet.
@@TurboMakesGames You're just missing lots of crashs...
I've tried both. I always like using and programming in Unity over Unreal, and I am one of those people that actually likes programming in C++. ;)
Ha nice. Yeah C++ is cool, been a while since I've used it but there are soo many nice things about C#
After thoroughly testing Unreal and Unity, and spending my free time for a year testing them, I recommend Bevyengine, the project is in its infancy, but already showing solid forms. It is also getting financing. It is a real pleasure to program in Rust, everything is fast, all the ECS is well programmed and without difficulty, access to all the source code, you can modify what you want, the whole product is the same code. Folks, Rust is finally going strong in the gaming industry. With Unity and with Unreal I didn't enjoy programming, Unreal because of the pain of C++, Unity because of its complete inconsistency. Bevyengine feels different, a stable project, ECS, will undoubtedly be a benchmark in the coming years. In my first tests with Bevyengine I get much more power than with Unity ECS, because you control aspects with Rust that you cannot control with Unity, the result is incredible.
Awesome, good to know you've been having such a good experience with Bevy - I've heard some good things but haven't had the chance to check it out yet.
I recently learned about the mass Ai system but to benefit from it to the fullest I had to switch from blueprint to C++, was challenging but worth it, I managed to spawn 20k AI all visible on screen simultaneously... That was literally what I needed
Nice, thanks for sharing your experience with it! Glad to hear that making the switch paid off
There is a UE game called Outpost by Team ranger that has many thousands of enemy swarms. I'm betting they used Mass. I really like the fact that UE has a lot of optional built in systems like pathfinding and vertex animation. I've never done UE multithreading but I suspect it's not as user friendly as with Unity Jobs. But there's no need for burst and IL2CPP since it's already C++. Coding with Burst is like abandoning C# for C anyways because it prohibits anything managed like anything in the System libraries or even simple class instances.
AFAIK mass is a UE5 feature, but I'll definitely give that game a look! Yeah totally on board with everything else you said 👍
The swarms are done with niagara if not mistaken as the devs written about it somewhere. You can use apparatus instead of Mass in Unreal tho, which is a complete product where Mass is still in it's infancy and doesn't have a lot of stuff.
Multithreading will be supported automatically in an upcoming update. You don't even have to do much for it.
Good to know, thanks for sharing!
I am wondering how this has aged. I am financing a project to build a large scale game and considering the first engine. To be honest I would rather go Bevy but it just doesn't seem to be ready for prime time. That leaves Godot, Unreal and Unity. At this point with the pricing changes I am not sure which to pick. I would love to bring Bevvy to primetime but the budget just doesnt allow this. Thoughts?
Just wondering if you had any up to date findings on this?
bump
Hi Bro, would you please kindly provide the URL of Mass Entity Builder Demo or simply share where to get it? Many thanks.
hi, i just started working profesionally with UE, first off, components are aleady a thing in unreal, and they usually contain logic (movement components, percepcion components, etc), so it would be confusing to use ECS, the other reason is that unity patented the namr it seems.
Mass is still in the experimental phase, so basically almost non-usable for games with the intent of release
Unity already has a concept of components too but that didn't stop them 😆😆
So now we have multiple methods called "GetComponent" that return a regular MonoBehaviour component or ECS Data Component depending on the context you use it lol.
@@TurboMakesGames ahhhh nice.. that's interesting to know
I'm curious if Unreal ECS can interoperate with normal Actors, especially its physics and net code etc. I still really don't get why Unity is splitting physics and especially netcode between GOs and ECS.
Yeah unsure on the integration with normal Actors. New Unity physics is built from the ground up with DOD and is stateless and deterministic which leads to performance gains over regular Unity physics. I'd assume that netcode is a similar situation as DOD makes server authoritative multiplayer and simulated rollback easier as data can just be recorded and resimulated as needed
Is Unity proprietary and Unreal is not? at 14:24 ish you make it sound like that is the case?
By "proprietary" I meant that the game engine is developed in-house. Kinda like EA with the Frostbite engine or Rockstar with RAGE, etc.
About the "Unity vs Unreal" question - I think everybody should stick with what they're in right now. We can see that both engines develop stuff to match what the other has, so I wouldn't be worried that one of them would be worse or lacked certain key features. It's a bit overkill to learn to work with an engine just over an "exclusive" thing that could be implemented in the other engine as well in a year or even sooner.
Fair enough - it's no doubt that you can make great games with either engine. Picking one toolset and seeing your project through to completion is much better than going back and forth trying to figure out which one to use.
Unreal is basically if you need things fast without thinking too much, and be prepared to not be able to tweak things as you want them to be. Unlike unity, where you need to dive in a little more to achieve anything, but at least you learn and you can do whatever you want. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I've noticed after 2 years using both
Good luck making HTML5 game in UE :)
You choose a tool based on your project's requirements
This was new to me, so thanks for reporting on it. I'll stick with Unity, but it's mostly because that is what I started with. It sounds like Unreal will have to integrate their ECS (EFP?) with multithreading and a new renderer. Since Unreal's focus is on high end graphics, I also wonder if some aspects of this will conflict with what their user base is inclined to do. It'll be interesting to see the overal rate of development.
No doubt. I've got no plans on moving over any time soon, but it will be interesting to keep an eye on from outside
@@TurboMakesGames I can use Mass Entity in Unreal Engine4?
What about Our Machinery game engine?
Haven't heard of it until now. Thanks for sharing, I'll have a look!
I have been used Unity for couple of years, there is some hate and love with it.
Hehe I think most Unity devs would probably say something similar 🙃
@@TurboMakesGames Yeah! :D
UNREAL5: Nanite+Lumen+Double Precision+ECS vs Unity: DOTS + ?. But Unity's job system and Burst compile are great, at least for me who write physics simulation.
Unity: DOTS + C# + Easy deployment to any major platform + a thriving community of users and developers + WETA digital tools (soon). Not saying one is better than the other, but each have many strengths and weaknesses and you got to go with what tool best helps you get to your end goal
Also unity is easy to extend to add your own features. So if you know how to extend editor and write tools you can do anything you need for a project and many people keep forgetting about that. With unreal is possible but difficult and you need to dig inside engine source to do anything.
I fell like the only ones who really care about this question so much are the ones who will never release anything. Try one, fry both, at the end it will not really matter, you gonna like one and go with it
Truth, great games have been made and will continue to be made with both! Though I do think it is helpful to people starting a new project to make sure their engine checks all the boxes for their project before going headfirst into development
anyone happen to know about how it is now a year later? unity hasnt really updated much and doesnt seem unreal has either so video mosty accurate?
Need to watch it again now :/
I can use Mass Entity in Unreal Engine4???
I feel like you missed some of the underpinning points of Unreals evolution process .. the first pass is to focus around c++ implementation.. get that right then second pass is to box it up for BP or simplified approach .. so when you keep stating the multi threading point .. I just have to say “are you aware how to do multi threading in c++”
As .. it would appear the answer is no.
As to which to use .. I use both engines equally constantly having to switch between both .. so the bias is obviously for you to keep the Unity3d pitch going .. however they both have pitfalls with ECS implementation.. they both just aren’t ready for prime time UNLESS you are tenacious and are comfortable with going to the metal as opposed to the typical low hanging fruit approach to development ..
For example .. generating a scene with nanite, lumen, world partition mixed with mass ecs .. is way more superior to attempting the same thing in Unity3d.. not to mention network code / replication in Unreal is far easier as it’s built in upfront ..
However if all you need is ecs and basic pipeline Unity3d works .. VRising is an example of this done brilliantly without the aforementioned extras..
This is a stupid Pepsi vs Coke argument to begin with .. but if you want to be taken more serious in the videos .. remain agnostic .. don’t push as aggressive with the “I can’t believe they are copying Unity3d” attitude .. as both are working with a design pattern so there will be overlaps
Cool, thanks for the input. Definitely super interested to see how Unreal's ECS solution evolves, especially if they can get it into a more accessible state that Unity's is with BP or whatever they come up with
Hi which would you use for a solo project? (unity scares me with the supposed need of the market place for the engine to even work (is that true?), and unreal for the difficulty of c++.) Thank you
Using mass entity myself, I managed to spawn 20 000 AI with a frame rate of 40fps, and 15 000 with a frame rate of 55-60.
And the animation vertex there is a plugging that bake animations and render on a static mesh. I will soon upload a video of my 20 000 units
Cool - please let us know when you've got that video up - I'd be interested in checking it out!
You defined nanite as "automatic LOD" i really that? I mean, i saw so many hype around that though that's was some super difficult tec and never checked, but putting this way do not look that big of a deal (and sorry for my English i hope you can understand)
Automatic LOD is definitely an oversimplification of what it is - that is really the end result of some pretty cool tech.
If you really need performance, throw out both engines, pure c++ is dozens of times more productive
Really? Show me a game u finished since u are soo productive
I tried UE5. After the 2nd hour of CPU running at 100% trying to build project + compile 30,000+ shaders, I knew it wasn't gonna be for me. Will still peek in, though.
Forgive my ignorance, but 30k+ shaders seems a bit overkill and an opportunity for optimization. Why so many?
@@qtxsystemsengine tried to compile shader variants, unity does it too, 1 shader is often few thousands variants
The naming differences probably comes from Unity has filed a patent for ECS in 2021 (even though Data Oriented Development has been used in games for decades) and likely will try and trademark the actual ECS name. So Epics calling it Fragments and Processors just saves them the headache of an IP lawsuit down the road.
I would be surprised if that was the case. Unity didn't patent ECS - they patented several unique ways of implementing some specific details in an ECS framework. There are tens, likely hundreds, of ECS frameworks that have been built over the years that have been using the ECS nomenclature way before Unity's patent was approved. There was a rumor going around that the patents were for "patenting ECS" but after skimming over the patents myself, I can confirm that the rumor is not true.
@@LukeClemens ohh 😯
They probably changed the naming scheme for legal reasons and differentiate from Unity
That certainly could be part of it!
can i use ECS with PUN 2?
Maybe not out of the box. But I think Photon's Quantum may support it
Probably a better camera and lights for full face video :S Sorry anyway. Unity is good at 2d and more control UE is graphics..
Camera and lights are good, I'm just bad at getting everything setup right 😅😅 thanks for the feedback though!
@@TurboMakesGames check alpha gaming channel he is usually really good at light for face
after years of unity, switching to unreal
i know, maybe it`s not okay to asking this in comments of Turbo, but can someone recomend good channels about unreal ?
Is anyone intrested in double precison of UE5？ I think this is a game changer too.
Yeah I think Unity ECS not having that is a bit of a misstep.
@@TurboMakesGames Unreal seems to be able to do some serious simulation soon. The UE office even has a project dedicated to make serious flight simulation on the full earth scale. I have made one in Unity, a painful process with single precision.
They changed the name to obfuscate the similarities between the two engines.
unreal is good ， but a bit overkill for most indie game developers
Makes sense!
I've got to be honest, I was super excited about Unity's ECS system, but like most things with Unity, it felt rushed and very incomplete. The timelines that the folks at Unity mentioned lacked any real detail and building a game with such unfinished, unpolished, and largely unsupported technology felt like a no-go from a practical standpoint. Also, what is it with Unity not following standard C# naming conventions and styles? This is very frustrating for a c# enthusiast like myself. Anyway, I made the jump over to Unreal and have been pleasantly surprised. They at least are consistent and the engine feels very polished, consistent, and well supported. I just hate those damn blueprints.
Fair enough, thanks for sharing your experience. Hope all is going well with your projects!
@@TurboMakesGames Keep making good content like this Turbo. I'm still a fan of Unity and DOTS, I just would love to see it become more of a priority. The lack of real animation support (IK, etc) from both solutions is just ridiculous, to say the least, for people who want to use these ECS system for real game development.
Yha 10K is not impressive. I have my own ECS like system for unreal and had 100K moving cubes no problem (m1 Mac mini). Could even do 1 million on a high end computer.
Unreals character system is powered but horrific performance. On my laptop with 8 cores, 16 threads it struggles at anything over than 100 characters
Nice, good on you!
Unreal: Can use any ECS cause you can integrate any C++ code
Unity: ...............
"Lets compare who has the best ECS!"
I wonder how quickly UE5 will develop Mass... feels like they'd develop it faster than Unity, so maybe things will be different in a year.
I haven't paid as close attention to Unreal's development, so what makes you say that? Have they implemented other massive features to the engine in a relatively quick time while still being stable and easy to use?
@@TurboMakesGames Mainly just about capabilities. UE5 is just packed with high end technologies, and their development pace just seem to be on a whole other level than Unity.
Unreal has a lot more money, although I'm not sure how big of a difference there is in team size, but it does appear the Unreal has a lot more of the top talent. If they put focus on Mass I think they'll catch up to Unity in no time.
@@muuubiee Will you and indie dev be using these features? If you won't won't using all of these then you cant talke about those features. Will you be aiming for those realistic graphics.
@@altongames1787 The less I have to do myself the better. Unity DOTS is probably 3-5 years out. Mass? Who knows, maybe they'll have it in a good state in just 2 years.
me too，fast and stable is the first factor,which Unity had done is really awful
10k?! those are rookie numbers!
Renaming the Components as Fragments is just horrendous. Fragments have always been pixels with z depth!!
Awesome, great to hear you're experimenting with DOTS. Plenty more tutorials on the way 😀
OK I see, UE5's ECS is not as mature as Unity's. So I just continue to endure the ECS of this unity.
Actually you do not need ECS in most cases.
more copetsion is always better every one know that both unity and Unreal competing with each other
to be honest the multiple stuff the unity have take for unreal engine like the shredder graph and the are multiple stuff the unreal engine take for unity and i thing this grate because thos competing with each wee have better tools better experience
I will not be surprised if unity make system similar Lumen and to Nanite in the future for example and i will not surprised wean the unreal takes tool for unity either
Indeed! A high tide rises all boats.
There's a difference in the amount of money each company has and i think in AAA games UE doesn't have much competition...
@@liviuemanuel82 I disagree with you it's true that ue is cheaper and the epic game has more money than Unity company however both Unity and unreal have a lot of money and the still compete with each other the are a lot of people who still use Unity for multiple reasons and the are many areas that ue is not great like 2D mobile games etc also unity lighter that ue
And Unity focus more on indie developers and unity in AAA studios and unity trying to more AAA friendly and ue more indie friendly
In the end both have the strength and weakness and in the end it is a matter of preference and what you try to create
@@watercat1248 I hope you are right. I know both have strengths and weaknesses but what bothers me is that epic has much more money and in the long run they will win. Unity can't buy a company and give it's products for free (quixel mixer for example), and people well... just love free ...
But I really want to see Unity getting better and I know it has gone better in the last years, but I don't know if that's enough
@@liviuemanuel82i don't know either only time will tell
But at this point Unity and unreal both have large number of users and money even if epic game has more money as for the future that is something I don't able to know
In my opinion thing unity lacking is networking
As a gamedev Studio, we never go back to unity. Everything is broken in unity, and instead of fixing they just add more broken features. Unity is maybe a good start or good for small Projects.
Too bad to hear that, thanks for sharing your experience. Hope all is going well at your studio now!
There is non-zero chance that different naming for the well known terms is a result of Unity's dick move of attempting to patent ECS.
It's wise to keep the terminology separate whenever it makes sense. Remember, Unity actually holds a patent for ECS, and anything that is "similar enough" with what's in that patent can be a major problem. Feels so dystopian to know a company can literally just patent stuff that have existed for years, decades even...
Unity holds patent for ecs? I don't think so, it is not any new concept and it was already used before in other engines or frameworks like bracket lib or bevy in Rust, or ENTT in c++ and everywhere it is quite almost the same way of doing, very similar
They really made patent over it? If true, yeah, it's crazy....
Thanks Johnny (name of the biggest French star ever by the way: Johnny Hallyday: th-cam.com/video/Xs-_NZ0LhrA/w-d-xo.html "live for the best") : finally a video who is a clear cut on Unity vs unReal > their ECS system trails behind so learning the future is with Unity! Simple.
I can't predict the future, but I'd say Unity ECS is the way to go right now for sure!
@@TurboMakesGames Unreal is too robust impov. For them to release "Mass", is because they fear Unity's progress. I believe the same happen to Unreal's license years ago. When Unity became too strong, they switch their license to equalize Unity's license and therefore not losing users. For the point of being robust, if Unreal doesn't invest hard in this (horrendous name) EFP (coff... ECS), i believe Unity will always be ahead in ECS.
IMHO: Unreal fears Unity progress.
I remember when i tried UDK with Kismet: Horrible documentation, no tutorials, horrible community towards indie devs. And when you look at tutorials (at least at that time. Idk now a days), it only advertise "gorgeous graphics" but when teaching basics and mechanics... naaahhh you only need to burn your graphics card.
PS.: Sorry my hate towards it. Nothing against it. i respect who uses Unreal, but i'll stick with Unity.
I remenber Unity just apply a patent for dots Last year,Or this is no patent in technology conception. If ue5 has more stable ecs,maybe unity will only attract begginer
Unity's ECS isn't for beginners IMO.
If i recall correctly, both Unity and Unreal's ECS isn't ready for production, so impov it may be for anyone. AAA, companies and/or indie developers. Regardless of being beginner or not though.