Yes. He even calls angel with the cavern (which is necessary to make it uncounterable, though he also needs white to cast it). Note that even if the angel resolves, he is still dead on board to feeling of dread flashback. It's possible that he is just realizing that, not concerned about the spell resolving. It is still hard to explain Hayne's play.
Also, even if it had named angel (another commenter apparently said that he didn't), the judge didn't have to intervene. It's not illegal to cast a counter targetting an uncounterable spell - the counterspell just fizzles. Cho immediately conceded, so the judge didn't have to say a word because nothing illegal had happened.
It's not a proxy (well, not technically), it's a checklist card; it has the list of all the double-faced cards released in Innistrad. You check off which double-sided card it represents, then use it as a placeholder for the double-sided card so the players can't see which card is on the top of your library, then when you play your double-sided card you replace the checklist card with the marked double-sided card. Hopefully that makes sense.
Couple of reasons... If your sleeves are even a little bit see through, you have to use a checklist. Also, if you don't want to be un-sleeving your cards when they flip, you use checklist cards. So on the side you may use transparent sleeves, to sleeve your flip cards.
Miracles can be played at instant speed if they are the first card drawn. If he thought scours into Entreat the Angel on his opponent's end step it can be drawn there.
Thought scour is used to increase his odd's of getting a miracle. It put's it more in his favor. His deck is designed to have draw a miracle 1 every four cards. So by using thought scour and milling 2 he is taking a 1 and 4 chance to a 3 out of 4 chance. It's not perfect but it does increase his odds. Also having flashback cards in his deck helps.
they are used for werewolf-cards, like huntmaster of the fells or scorned villager. u mark the card the check card is used for (all werewolfs of an edition are listed on a check card). if u then cast that creature, u put it on the check card (from your box, in a clear sleeve). if it flips u can just flip it without taking it out and maybe damage it (as u can see cho doing) also some sleeves are kinda transparent, so u can see the back of a werewolf-card glancing through the sleeve
That's correct. However Cho did scoop pretty much the second he saw the dissipate. Also Hayne could've tapped the angel with Feeling of Dread and swung for 12 if Cho happened to flash his huntmaster.
oh wow looks like Cho gave both angels back at 1:27:24 when he only needed to give 1 angel back because of he flickered to keep one O.o that would of only let Hayne do 18 damage.
mana issues are always a concern for multicolor aggro decks. Control decks can usually recover from slow starts. Aggro decks don't recover as easily. There's a random element to Magic and the better deck or more skilled player will lose some of the time, but the randomness can be reigned in somewhat.
Technically, Say Player did call Angel for Cavern. When casting a spell, if they do not declare that they are tapping Cavern for that specific Creature type, then that creature can be countered. This is due since Cavern can be tapped for a colorless mana. When dealing with tournaments, people would assume that your tapping for that creature, but if they do not declare it, then you can counter. There for no illegal play.
All of the decks get inspected prior and the judges approve or deny your sleeves. The big thing is that taking cards in and out of the sleeves, causes wear on the sleeves, and can possibly bend or mark the sleeves in a way thats unplayble. Its just to make it last longer. Personally I sleeve the checklist card in the deck then use clear sleeves so that I dont have to take the card in and out, and yet leave it still protected.
he can use entreat the angels as an instant, if the miricle is the first card YOU'VE drawn, you can cast it immediately. and because you draw a card with thought scour, it allows you to cast miricles on your opponent's turn. and the other cards in his deck that have flashback also become useful in his graveyard as he may cast them when he wants. it's just a really good card for his deck all around, that's why it's important lol
I used to turn them just a tad .. I fully tap now, though. Casual play doesn't need to see that sort of demand in gameplay .. but in a pro-style tournament, I can see why it's necessary...
The effect is still on the stack even if Zealous Conscripts leaves play; the ability doesn't resolve if the target is flickered, not the source. Once Conscripts resolves, the trigger goes on the stack and he gets the angel until EOT. Whether or not conscripts is blinked, dies, or otherwise leaves play is irrelevant.
Planeswalkers are permanents, and "players" when choosing targets for a damaging spell, and also creatures can chose to attack a player or a planeswalker. As you probably know planeswalkers use their loyalty not only as life points but also for activating abillities. These abillities are not mana abillities, and only one can be cast per turn. They are cast as sorceries not instants.
I agree 100%, I thought while reading , (not at that part of the video yet ) that he might of not declared his color of mana making it uncounterable, but he indeed did so you are correct, it CANNOT be countered, he technically had a chance to win
Furthermore, his deck is based on probability. You probably heard the guy saying he should get a miracle every 4 cards. So, when he Thought Scour himself, he makes that "4-card wait" down to a "1-card wait" (2 cards down to graveyard, 1 card drawn). Of course this is just odds being played, and Hayne's got no clue if he's getting a miracle or not, but his goal is to maximize his odds. Besides, he might even get card advantage (flashback cards in graveyard) and also miracle on opponent's turn.
Joshua Cho plays an extra land in G5 of the semifinals. Doesn't look intentional, but playing garruk the turn he plays the extra land could have mattered, if Alexander Hayne didn't have the Devastation Tide. The extra land also allowed him to play zealous and angel on the same turn. Instead of attacking for fake lethal, he could have blinked an angel token and left Hayne with only mass removal outs, instead of the double temporal mastery line.
'until end of turn' effects still finish at the end of turn, even if the thing that caused them isnt around anymore. They dont have a separate trigger, like a fiend hunter leaving the battlefield, so the game remembers that they have to finish at the end of turn. There is no way you can permanently gain control a creature from just the conscripts enter the battlefield trigger. Also you need to add more question marks to the end of your questions, otherwise people might not take you seriously.
You are right, but to be fair, even if it resolved, he only goes up to 12 from the Huntmaster reentering play. Flashback Feeling of Dread, tapping the angel, and he loses anyway.
Could someone explain how the conscript would let Cho keep control of one of the angel tokens when he blinks it? (commentator says at 57:00)Don't fully understand it =\
Miracles let you do that, creating a small timing window that allows it. If this weren't true, you couldn't cast sorcery as a miracle even during own turn.
not with sleeves. well it depends what sleeves you use if you use light sleeves then u should use a checklist. but if u ue dark sleeves u wont see the back of the card
The announcer's were wrong. You cannot flicker a token to be able to keep it because it would be exiled instead. He flickered the conscripts twice so he could grab another angel.
Correct me if I am wrong but Cho targeted the same Zealous Conscripts for Restoration Angel that he took control of the first 4/4 Angel for Hayne should have just gotten one 4/4 Angel back as the first one taken does not resolve, due Zealous Conscripts to being flickered out.
Hayne made an illegal play! How did the judges not see that! How did Cho not see that! Game two the angel could not be countered! And the match before Hayne had too many cards in his deck after side boarding... That was resolved but he got really lucky with his errors.
Can someone explain why thought scour is important in Hayne's deck? I just can't wrap my head around it especially when he can't use entreat the angels as an instant
But in a lot of sleeves you can see the back of a flip card such as Huntsmaster so even if it is very faint in a place like a Pro Tour if a judge got called on that and they saw it then it's a loss so why not be safe than sorry
I guess my point was mostly, why did he choose to swing in for 16? The huntmaster transform would deal 2 to him, then he could have kept 2 back to block and been fine.
+Theodore Sikas They were flip cards. They sometimes show through sleeves so players can see what they draw next, so they have a normal card back to compensate.
+Theodore Sikas gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=huntmaster+of+the+fells there's the card if you were curious what the other side was.
Wait i got the problem. He turned his entire mana back which would mean that his new turn just started after he cast Entreat the Angels. There is something fishy going on there but couldn't solve it yet. It's on 16.01 though.
11:40 Correct me if I'm wrong. Hayne is at 19, he gets is bonfire, alowing him to bonfire for 5. Okay, so lets say he smacked Hayne in the face with the full bonfire, that brings hayne to 14. His Silverheart is an 8/8, his ranger a 6/6. Swining with both of them would of be another 14 damage, which would of been lethal. Why did he chose to bonfire for 2 on Tamyo? Tamyo is usless if you end the game. Somone reply to me if I am wrong, but this just looked like a huge misplay.
This new presentation format is insanely good. Please keep it. The card profiles make a huge difference.
Yes. He even calls angel with the cavern (which is necessary to make it uncounterable, though he also needs white to cast it). Note that even if the angel resolves, he is still dead on board to feeling of dread flashback. It's possible that he is just realizing that, not concerned about the spell resolving. It is still hard to explain Hayne's play.
Also, even if it had named angel (another commenter apparently said that he didn't), the judge didn't have to intervene. It's not illegal to cast a counter targetting an uncounterable spell - the counterspell just fizzles. Cho immediately conceded, so the judge didn't have to say a word because nothing illegal had happened.
It's not a proxy (well, not technically), it's a checklist card; it has the list of all the double-faced cards released in Innistrad. You check off which double-sided card it represents, then use it as a placeholder for the double-sided card so the players can't see which card is on the top of your library, then when you play your double-sided card you replace the checklist card with the marked double-sided card.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Alexander Hayne's deck is so ridiculously fun to watch.
Couple of reasons...
If your sleeves are even a little bit see through, you have to use a checklist.
Also, if you don't want to be un-sleeving your cards when they flip, you use checklist cards.
So on the side you may use transparent sleeves, to sleeve your flip cards.
Miracles can be played at instant speed if they are the first card drawn. If he thought scours into Entreat the Angel on his opponent's end step it can be drawn there.
Thought scour is used to increase his odd's of getting a miracle. It put's it more in his favor. His deck is designed to have draw a miracle 1 every four cards. So by using thought scour and milling 2 he is taking a 1 and 4 chance to a 3 out of 4 chance. It's not perfect but it does increase his odds. Also having flashback cards in his deck helps.
The Miracle deck that Hayne is playing is incredible.
they are used for werewolf-cards, like huntmaster of the fells or scorned villager.
u mark the card the check card is used for (all werewolfs of an edition are listed on a check card).
if u then cast that creature, u put it on the check card (from your box, in a clear sleeve). if it flips u can just flip it without taking it out and maybe damage it (as u can see cho doing)
also some sleeves are kinda transparent, so u can see the back of a werewolf-card glancing through the sleeve
so basically Hayne's deck is like having God Mode in Magic you think you can kill him but then he flips it around love this deck!!
It's really good and helps viewers which are not so deep into it to follow all actions
"I've got my time walk mana ready." Classy.
That's correct. However Cho did scoop pretty much the second he saw the dissipate. Also Hayne could've tapped the angel with Feeling of Dread and swung for 12 if Cho happened to flash his huntmaster.
I believe he played thought scour from his hand in Cho's turn, thus allowing him to play it as a Miracle.
im a big fan of the miracle deck from hayne! must be fun to play with :)
oh wow looks like Cho gave both angels back at 1:27:24 when he only needed to give 1 angel back because of he flickered to keep one O.o that would of only let Hayne do 18 damage.
mana issues are always a concern for multicolor aggro decks. Control decks can usually recover from slow starts. Aggro decks don't recover as easily.
There's a random element to Magic and the better deck or more skilled player will lose some of the time, but the randomness can be reigned in somewhat.
Technically, Say Player did call Angel for Cavern. When casting a spell, if they do not declare that they are tapping Cavern for that specific Creature type, then that creature can be countered. This is due since Cavern can be tapped for a colorless mana. When dealing with tournaments, people would assume that your tapping for that creature, but if they do not declare it, then you can counter. There for no illegal play.
All of the decks get inspected prior and the judges approve or deny your sleeves. The big thing is that taking cards in and out of the sleeves, causes wear on the sleeves, and can possibly bend or mark the sleeves in a way thats unplayble. Its just to make it last longer. Personally I sleeve the checklist card in the deck then use clear sleeves so that I dont have to take the card in and out, and yet leave it still protected.
Miracle deck is probably the coolest deck ever created.
Such a nice guy that Canadian , he wishes his opponent good luck , first time I witness this in MTG
he can use entreat the angels as an instant, if the miricle is the first card YOU'VE drawn, you can cast it immediately. and because you draw a card with thought scour, it allows you to cast miricles on your opponent's turn. and the other cards in his deck that have flashback also become useful in his graveyard as he may cast them when he wants. it's just a really good card for his deck all around, that's why it's important lol
I used to turn them just a tad .. I fully tap now, though. Casual play doesn't need to see that sort of demand in gameplay .. but in a pro-style tournament, I can see why it's necessary...
"You may cast it for its miracle cost if its the first card you draw this turn."
Extremely literal there.
Players that have a good sense of humor are so much more entertaining to watch then players that take things to seriously.
The effect is still on the stack even if Zealous Conscripts leaves play; the ability doesn't resolve if the target is flickered, not the source. Once Conscripts resolves, the trigger goes on the stack and he gets the angel until EOT. Whether or not conscripts is blinked, dies, or otherwise leaves play is irrelevant.
Planeswalkers are permanents, and "players" when choosing targets for a damaging spell, and also creatures can chose to attack a player or a planeswalker. As you probably know planeswalkers use their loyalty not only as life points but also for activating abillities. These abillities are not mana abillities, and only one can be cast per turn. They are cast as sorceries not instants.
@12:20 -
Cho: Swing with Wolfir.
Hayne: 14.
Me: That hurt so bad I felt it through the internet.
I agree 100%, I thought while reading , (not at that part of the video yet ) that he might of not declared his color of mana making it uncounterable, but he indeed did so you are correct, it CANNOT be countered, he technically had a chance to win
Furthermore, his deck is based on probability. You probably heard the guy saying he should get a miracle every 4 cards. So, when he Thought Scour himself, he makes that "4-card wait" down to a "1-card wait" (2 cards down to graveyard, 1 card drawn). Of course this is just odds being played, and Hayne's got no clue if he's getting a miracle or not, but his goal is to maximize his odds. Besides, he might even get card advantage (flashback cards in graveyard) and also miracle on opponent's turn.
thanks was wondering about that
Joshua Cho plays an extra land in G5 of the semifinals. Doesn't look intentional, but playing garruk the turn he plays the extra land could have mattered, if Alexander Hayne didn't have the Devastation Tide. The extra land also allowed him to play zealous and angel on the same turn. Instead of attacking for fake lethal, he could have blinked an angel token and left Hayne with only mass removal outs, instead of the double temporal mastery line.
'until end of turn' effects still finish at the end of turn, even if the thing that caused them isnt around anymore. They dont have a separate trigger, like a fiend hunter leaving the battlefield, so the game remembers that they have to finish at the end of turn. There is no way you can permanently gain control a creature from just the conscripts enter the battlefield trigger.
Also you need to add more question marks to the end of your questions, otherwise people might not take you seriously.
If you cast a spell that can damage players, then you can redirect the damage to the planeswalker. So they almost are.
Those Islands are nice....
It wouldn't have mattered, Hayne had feeling of dread both in his hand and graveyard. Was still a mistake, but not a game changing one.
i downloaded the video to watch it and when i saw that part i came back to see the comments. i thought he couldn't counter it too!
The creature is still a legal target for Dissipate even though it wouldn't do anything on resolution, but Cho just scooped instead.
The judges didn't have to make the call. John scooped, didn't even argue it.
You are right, but to be fair, even if it resolved, he only goes up to 12 from the Huntmaster reentering play. Flashback Feeling of Dread, tapping the angel, and he loses anyway.
Alright, cool. Thanks, I didn't know the miracles became instants. Makes thought scour a really good card.
At 30:50 Joshua Cho calls ANGEL for his cavern of souls and then at 32:25 Alexander Hayne countered his restoration angel. Did I see that right?!?
I like how the announcer's shit talk a player before the match, that's always nice.
but if you read the miracle ability text, you'll find that you can reveal it and play it for it's miracle cost
Could someone explain how the conscript would let Cho keep control of one of the angel tokens when he blinks it? (commentator says at 57:00)Don't fully understand it =\
When DKA ascension was released the whole innistrad had not been released so they could not do a block constructed Pro Tour.
But it was since he played thought scour on his opponents turn causing him to draw therefore it was effectively the first card he drew that turn.
Miracles let you do that, creating a small timing window that allows it. If this weren't true, you couldn't cast sorcery as a miracle even during own turn.
Yes, you did. He didn't announce that he used the multicolor mana for that cavern, thus giving A.H. the ability to counter. Mistake on Cho's part.
In G2, Restoration Angel couldn't be countered because it was cast using mana from cavern of souls
I'm assuming he named Humans. You might have to read Cavern of Souls one more time
Oh sorry. I thought he named angels
CaptainKowKow he did cast it with angel mana from cavern of souls. Loose play.
it does when you are talking about Magic: The Gathering
Why didnt he play wolfir silverheart at 12:00?? Am i missing something? Wouldnt the +4 to the pilgrim give exactly lethal?
I'm more excited about Magic now that the Leafs dropped that 4-1 lead in game 7.
not with sleeves. well it depends what sleeves you use if you use light sleeves then u should use a checklist. but if u ue dark sleeves u wont see the back of the card
Is this standard?
What time did this happen? I want to see but probably won't watch this whole 2 hours of video.
He can still target the angel with Dissipate. Cho scooped with Dissipate on the stack; had he not it would have fizzled. Nothing illegal happened.
I assume he's playing around feeling of dread. A feeling of dread followed up by a wrath would be pretty devastating there.
He is right, the angel could not be countered. If Cho had not conceded, the judges would probably interfere.
It has been ruled that zealous blinked doesn't return the original target so this is a great example of a big play mistake
The announcer's were wrong. You cannot flicker a token to be able to keep it because it would be exiled instead. He flickered the conscripts twice so he could grab another angel.
Correct me if I am wrong but Cho targeted the same Zealous Conscripts for Restoration Angel that he took control of the first 4/4 Angel for Hayne should have just gotten one 4/4 Angel back as the first one taken does not resolve, due Zealous Conscripts to being flickered out.
So, Planeswalkers are basically considered players in terms of card effects?
What edition/type of Islands is Alexander Hayne using?
Beta
is this on a channel or is it just teh interwebz
thanks :))
Blinked before the delayed trigger goes off.
Can someone explain to me why the ProTour for DKA was Standard Constructed and the ProTour for AvacynRestored is Block Constructed?
what set of lands is Hayne playing with those are sweet?
Beta
Hayne made an illegal play! How did the judges not see that! How did Cho not see that! Game two the angel could not be countered!
And the match before Hayne had too many cards in his deck after side boarding... That was resolved but he got really lucky with his errors.
haha nice choice of words. the shuffling irritates me more than the lands in the redzone thing, though.
I also hate that he keeps his exile pile under his graveyard. There needs to be some clear separation there.
why did Haynes terminus right after that entreat? He had the game short of a miracle bonfire. Am I missing something?
He can because entreat the angles says when it is the first card drawn this turn you can pay it for its miracle and it was on Josh's turn
Can someone explain why thought scour is important in Hayne's deck? I just can't wrap my head around it especially when he can't use entreat the angels as an instant
hes correct, go watch it again
But in a lot of sleeves you can see the back of a flip card such as Huntsmaster so even if it is very faint in a place like a Pro Tour if a judge got called on that and they saw it then it's a loss so why not be safe than sorry
He would have died on his opponents turn.. So his only option was to swing for 16 and cast terminus and hope to draw into something else to help him.
At 17:01, why did Hayne play Entreat the Angels paying its miracle cost ? Wasn't Thought Scour the first card he drew ?
Hayne's deck had a flaw. He does not have any protection from bonfire.
This would have changed the damage count giving cho one more swing for game in his favor
Yep he did.
in game 5, when Cho Zealot Conscript the Angel and then Restoration Angel to bounce Zealot Conscript - isn't 1 Angel should remain in Cho's side?
I believe he says angel, then pauses, and changes it to wolf.
Then he would have been blown out by a feeling of dread, which is a perfectly reasonable card to put hayne on to protect his Tamiyo.
I really think that Kevin Klotz should edit videos from WOTC.
Ken annoyed me with his shuffling and tapping but I kinda felt sad when his hands were shaking and he thought he had the answer.
I guess my point was mostly, why did he choose to swing in for 16? The huntmaster transform would deal 2 to him, then he could have kept 2 back to block and been fine.
Didn't Cho have the cards?Like Huntmaster I mean.Also what are those weird cards he's using instead of the original ones?
+Theodore Sikas They were flip cards. They sometimes show through sleeves so players can see what they draw next, so they have a normal card back to compensate.
+Theodore Sikas gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=huntmaster+of+the+fells there's the card if you were curious what the other side was.
Wait i got the problem. He turned his entire mana back which would mean that his new turn just started after he cast Entreat the Angels.
There is something fishy going on there but couldn't solve it yet. It's on 16.01 though.
11:40 Correct me if I'm wrong. Hayne is at 19, he gets is bonfire, alowing him to bonfire for 5. Okay, so lets say he smacked Hayne in the face with the full bonfire, that brings hayne to 14. His Silverheart is an 8/8, his ranger a 6/6. Swining with both of them would of be another 14 damage, which would of been lethal. Why did he chose to bonfire for 2 on Tamyo? Tamyo is usless if you end the game. Somone reply to me if I am wrong, but this just looked like a huge misplay.
I can't stand when people don't actually tap them all the way. It's so annoying because I can't tell if it's just crooked or tapped from my angle.
Why can't they show the match when Ken Yukuhiro wins?! so frustrating.
at 31:00 a really bad decision from joshua i think
with 5 mana he'd better cast sigarda
0:22:15 "there's some Avacyn Restored Booster Boxes, which we sort of just give away when we feel like it..."
.. I'll have one! :D
At 32:20 how did his werewolves transform with feeling of dread cast last turn?
34:09 on the left o.0
i like this haynes kid
"Let's see what we're giving away here... It's not JUST 40 000 dollars. *shows AVR booster boxes* LMAO