According to David Berning, FETs are very similar to that of pentode these, which has less quality of transfer linearity than that of triode tubes. However, his classic TF -10 preamp used a patented design of a triode tube stage in series with a FET in series configuration which delivered ultimate transfer linearity. Problem with the FET is that lack of care in not powering down then preamp before unplugging and plugging back on sources caused blown FETs. Also, Berning has an OTL power amp design that is uniquely able to allow the safely eliminating output capacitors!
I totally agree in high fidelity but I like output tubes in guitar amps because of not needing the low freq. response and because of compression and sag and dare I say Mojo of amp to person contentedness. Thanks!
I like tube amplifiers, even though I currently do not have any. Until the early 1970s, I used Dynakit PAT-4 and a pair of Mark III power amps. The sound was excellent, but the main problem was that the KT-88 power tubes needed to be replaced every two years and the prices of these tubes were climbing exponentially. I currently use a Marantz 3300 Preamp and a Model 250 power Amp. Over forty years and the only service required was a capacitor replacement in the relay coil circuit, and a set of output transistors for the right channel, which I serviced myself.
In electronic transmission theory the best power delivery and less distortion occurs when the impedance is matched. I don’t know why this isn’t important for audio amplifiers? Tube amps use transformers to provide a matching impedance to the speaker? I would be interested in your comments.
Twelve months ago I would have disagreed, I have had several glorious valve amps (toobs) and had not heard any solid state that matched the midrange, top or spacial ability although SS is usually tighter in the bass. However, I now use an ARC valve preamp with a Constellation Audio Mosfet power amp (that I believe Bascom King also had a hand in designing) and it beats the valves hands down, not just in bass but in every way.
Good component choice that you have. I go the same route as you: vacuum tube at the preamp stage and SS at the power-amp stage. The equipment I use is Audio Research LS28 and Mark Levinson 532. The combo yields the best result for me so far. Overall, I have the tube-quality high/mid-range and the punchy bass. I cannot ask for anything better
Some 55 years ago I built a tube amplifier with about 10 or 12 output tubes which did away with the output transformer. How would such a system compare with a MOSFET output amp?
That's why I have a Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000 poweramp. Four 5751 's in the input (pre-driverstage) and MOSFET drivers and output transistors following.
I got a Jaycar MOSFET cheap amp and it Schiits all over my NAD c356bee. And the NAD was three times the price. The jaycar simply sounds way better. More transparent, more spacial.
I love your explanations but everything is home studio oriented. Do you ever speak in terms of instrument amplifiers (i.e. guitar amps)? Just curious- not saying you should be but I would be interested in hearing what you have to say on the subject now and then. Thanks, TW
When I pulled my CJ PV 10 B with the best tubes I could find and replaced with the Bryston BP20 to go with the 4BSST the improvement was dramatic. OK maybe not a "fair" comparison price wise but I have always liked the preamp and with top of the line NOS Mullard tubes it sounds sweet. But the noise? Way higher. And the sound is really not only no better but not as good musically as the Bryston. And to keep chunking out $$ for those tubes? I notice the 12AU7 Mullards have tripled in price good thing I bought 10 of them when they were $45 each. In the past I would have agreed with your tube preamp point but see no point anymore with an 18 1/2 year old gem that still has 1 1/2 year parts and labor warranty lol.
you mentioned the staggered studs 'arent perfect' because they are joined to same boards top and bottom. are you familiar with using hat channels and whisper clips to further isolate? also, double drywall w/o green glue in between is almost a waste of the expense on the drywall. additionally, cut all drywall joints 1/8" short from meeting the adjoining wall/ceiling/floor. fill the gap with acoustic caulk which never hardens.
I tend to have problems when replacing output valves coz some of the valve types are becoming rarer and rarer and therefore more and more expensive. MOSFET’s last long and really sound good without too much harshness, take my Hitachi HMA-9500 for instance.
I got SS and tube system. I have a SS integrated that gives a very similar sound to tubes. Sufficiently airy and holographic with a deep and wide soundstage. I heard of tube amps (a very popular brand that has a very ‘awesome’ salesman who talks about point to point wiring all the time on TH-cam) that sound more like a SS. Just listened to the Line Magnetic LM805ia, a single ended 48w integrated. The bass was tight, strong ... sound is clear, clean and solid. No issue as a tube amp. It all depends on the design. That is a big factor.
Your friend and mentor Arnie Nudell had great taste in amplifiers. Back in the day, when Sonic Frontiers was in it's heyday, they made some of the best sounding tube gear I ever had the pleasure of listening to. It's a shame they ceased operations, but from what I understand; their budget brand that they started at that time Assemblage, is still around today and making incredible sounding gear, although it's now a lot more expensive and less budget, but uses much of what was learned from Sonic Frontiers. Again, it's too bad that Paradigm bought and ruined them with poor management...they had, to my ears at least, a much more resolving sound than either AR or VAC and were also able to control bass. I miss that company, and always wonder what kind of awesome gear they could have produced today.
I was never a fan of tube amps, never cared for how they sounded. And today mosfet amps have came a long way to how they was back in the day, and I can only imagine they'll keep improving.
Hi ! thanks again for the always interesting videos. But leaving tubes aside ... which are the best active parts for output stages between mosfets and bjts ? both are widely used.
gino Great question and I wonder too. I'm not an expert but as far as I know the useage of MOSFETs or bjts also depends on the class of the amplifier. As a class-a amplifier is very inefficient a MOSFET would be preferable as it wastes less power than a bjt. In a class-b stage bjts should work very good. Both bjts and MOSFETs have their advantages and disadvantages so look them up and you can make a verdict yourself as it's hard to make one for somebody else. However, I have heard that bjts are of higher fidelity in sound applications but still, it depends on the application itself.
@@chielwouterscw hi thanks for the very kind and helpful reply Maybe all depends on the actual design The gifted designer can have his preferred devices and is able to extract the best performance from them Actually i see mosfets used in class A designs as you state
Vacuum tubes are voltage control devices, you need a transformer to produce current. Semiconductors are current control devices. Remember when the matching transformer was mounted on the speaker cage? If you prefer front-end amplification it's because you desire lower S/N I guess, the output stage primary purpose is for driving the massive, likely low and trending lower as time progresses, impedance transducer? So to me I prefer whichever sounds good to my ears and fits my budget. Another question is if all your effort should go into a single system or multiple systems, where's the balance point?
There are a lot of cheap chinese integrated tube amps out now. Are any of them good? I see these go as low as maybe $500. But other recognized brands usually starts at $2000 or so.
The ones that review well, like Cayin and Prima Luna, are excellent amps. While not in the category of say, AR or BAT, both brands make some very good sets. I have read good things about Eastern Electric and Line Magnetic, but have never heard either to verify. Ming Da is supposed to be premium, but the one amp I heard from them was just "OK". Most of the cheaper stuff is, well, cheaper, so regardless of the country of origin, you still kinda get what you pay for.
What would Sencore and Triad have done back in yesteryear if MOSFET's instead of vacuum tubes were being used to power the outputs of amps back in the 50's and 60's.
The impedance issue on valve output stages has always been an issue. Some of those transformers are not cheap when you run at 4 ohm. All those old valve systems such as TV and that old Kreisler record player always ran RC or Rola speakers at 16 ohm or above.
I wonder, just for giggles, if a speaker could be made to match the high impedance and take the full plate voltage of the output of a tube amp, would it sound any different than the same speaker, made for a normal 8 ohm load using transformer coupling to the tube amp like "normal". Just to hear any differences in sound. I doubt it could be done though. The voice coil would be massive, and need to be tapped and all that nasty stuff.
Electrostatic speakers are driven by voltage, not current. Normally, electrostatic speakers have a step up transformer to boost the voltage high enough to drive the diaphragm. If you are driving your electrostatic speakers with an tube amp, that amp will have a step down output transformer. The obvious next step is to get rid of both transformers. The only complication is that now you have to design the speaker and the amplifier as a unit, so they are complementary.
Tubes are still around because of guitar players. But there are great solid state amps too. The BOSS Katana and the Orange Super Crush are fantastic sounding amps, and they don't run on any tubes. They're both class AB like a tube amp, so they have a similar feel to that of a tube amp.
I don't even know what amps I'm playing through half the time. Especially when we arrive at some stadium somewhere in the world and only have a couple of hours to get our asses on stage. I used to know exactly what I was using before I became a world class rock star. One of the downfalls of becoming a living legend.
Apmpeg makes great bass guitars amplifriers and they use tubes for the powers amps. Marshall has Super PlexiLeed 50 watt ALL TUBE no master volume amplifliers.
These are all low fedelity applications. Ampeg SVT has great bass response but the transformers are so big that the head alone weighs nearly 100 lbs...no thanks..
Yes... there are no ''the best ''... only ''the better'' for the moment... or in a certain period of time (and in all aspects of life)... and then comes a new-old winner... and again, in the infinity... Running for the "best" to buy is a lost race, but running for the ''the best'' in science, innovation, production is a must... It would be nice if it were so... sorry... but usually it's not. Lament of an old audiophile.
Also, I assume you will be using 20 guage Drywall Furring Channel to further decouple the drywall from the frame? But, it's probably too late, as I'm sure these rooms are complete by now.
I had a sheet Marshall valve State I picked up from Guitar Center for a while and it just had a two preamp sadly it was just one little tube that it was hanging off one of the several circuit boards that was in there but something about the kind of hybrids where it has the two preamp and I saw a state power amp that those just have a wicked monsters amount of distortion that goes pretty surprised to see at that time that I had it that rigs the guitarist the first guitarist for a while there for Rob Zombie's band he used some huge valve States and he also used some other brand I think there was some kind of heavy metal tube amp and he kind of ran both systems together but yeah here like that it's all stay hybrid and quite a few people did but I mean taking it apart and looking at it just it looks like it would sound like crap you only get that one little tube in there but yeah the the Distortion is wicked.
Interestingly enough, I have recently discovered that it is not tubes or transistors that I prefer, but the class of operation. Class A is better than AB, single ended Class A is best. I don't care for Class D at all. The discovery of my affinity for single ended operation rather than single ended triode tube operation, came after building a single ended transistor amp that demonstrates the same luscious character as my single ended triode tube amps. The cost? Eight watts per channel on the transistor amp, two watts from the tubes. Speaker choice is critical and options are very limited. The subject of transformer couping I find confusing. Since a tube amp cannot be used without transformers, how do you know how much damage the transformer does to the sound? I have a pair of electrostatics that I used to drive with tubes (75 and 150 watt Class AB) although not currently. The first thing the amplifier sees after it's output, is step up transformers. The same is true for a ribbon tweeter I have on a different pair of speakers. Audio Note of England uses interstage and output transformers almost everywhere in their, admittedly tube, electronics. The amp I have driving the electrostatics now is a tube input solid state output hybrid (sorry, not PS Audio). According to Paul, this is ideal. I find myself being drawn however, to the high distortion, low power, transformer coupled, delicious sounding, triodes that I love. Soon to be replaced with single ended transistors? We'll see... And if you are going to tell me I am listening to euphonic distortion; 1.) I already know. 2.) I don't care. 3.) Why is beautiful sound bad? 4.) How do I get more euphony?
JFETs are an excellent choice for a front end and we use them in severakl of our designs. They don't handle a lot of current or voltage so they're relegated to front ends, but as such, they can be excellent.
PS Audio, What kind of MOSFETs do you use on the output stage? Do they have positive or negative temp coef.? Will they share the load nicely or do you have to use bias/balancing resistors like on bipolars?
Mosfets are mostly like tubes without the microphonics.. and if you design with all n channel fets instead of n and p channel the stage is more in harmony.. im not against tubes in the drive stage but I still believe in class a preamp.. jfets seem to be the choice these days..but ive heard bjt preamps sound good if used back to back like nelson did years ago..think it was called dc stage.. they were sharing exact temp with each other and so that means less or zero feedback.. my friend john pleitz designed the best n channel output stage . That sadly the world sortta copied. LETS ENCOURAGE JOHN PLEITZ TO DESIGN A NO LIMIT HOME AMP DESIGN.. its time john i just told the world your the best at this..
@ Paul, there are BJT's, Mosfet, Tube technologies etc... There is another type of technology that enhances them all, said in few words! Would you like to try it Paul? I'm willing to sign on PS Audio royalty free to promote the technology! I have two patent pending technologies that are simply amazing, I actually feel guilty not disclosing to any company. My only requirement is a signed NDA...
It's too bad Sony stopped making 2SJ18 and 2SK60 V-FETs (Vertical Field Effect Transistors). Back then, production was finicky and tolerances were difficult to achieve. Just imagine what could have happened if they'd continued improvement over the past forty years!
@MisterMac56 V-FET unreliability explains the complexity of the protection circuits. There are some dual-diodes in the circuit that tend to fail, and if they do, they take the V-FETs with them. I have a TAN-5550 that I bought new (demo room amp). I'm in the process of re-capping it. My hope is to keep it going. Sony is kind of a funny company. I have a PS-X75 turntable that has a computer to control automation and the Biotracer arm. If that chip goes out, there are no more. I've heard that it may be possible to replace the chip with an Arduino, but there's lots of programming. The caps in the power supply tend to fail, taking the processor chip with them.
@MisterMac56 The turntable was not a trivial purchase for me. I think it was $850, so that comes down to ~$22/year. If I had invested that money, I probably would have lost it in the market or a divorce. I purchased some exotic silicone grease, and I plan to re-lube and re-cap. The cartridge is an Adcom cross-coil with line trace diamond. I think the "rubber" sealing the cantilever has changed for the worse. It's a moving coil with high enough voltage to drive my preamp without an additional preamp.
... also known as ‘staggered stud construction.’ For the amount of money you’ve spent on your new building, Paul, and the considerable amount of trouble that you’ve gone to constructing these new sound/demo rooms, I’d have expected you to use completely separate stud walls to minimize ‘bleed through’ of sound from the adjacent sound/demo rooms. Another way - since you still have time to do it - is to create structurally decoupled ‘hanging walls’ by using an isolation device called Genie Clips, which accommodate lightweight, steel channel that, with a bit of effort, snaps into the Genie Clips in horizontal arrangement, upon which to mount the drywall. I realize that you prefer not to use any steel in the wall construction of your new rooms, but there’s really no call for concern in regards thereto. The above described process - correctly implemented - will yield large dividends in structural vibration control and isolation, well worth using the minimal amount of steel channel required to hang the walls and ceilings. Another item you seem to have overlooked - though it is NOT a ‘miracle product’ - is the use of an economical vibration dampening product called Green Glue. This water-based ‘goo’ is available in five-gallon pails, and would be applied by hand, via specialized trowel, directly to the surface of the second layer sheets of drywall in as-you-go fashion just prior to hanging, in uniform, one-eighth-inch coats on all secondary-layers of drywall walls and ceilings (floors too - in the case of a layered, wooden-underlayment-upon-floor-joist installation - just don’t screw any of the underlayment flooring to the floor joists, as this would negate the effectiveness of the Green Glue and defeat the purpose), with the second layer of drywall sparingly screwed directly to the steel channel (this would require longer drywall screws than the first layer, of course) in a staggered-seem pattern, vis-à-vis the first layer of gypsum board. Once the glue sets (a misnomer, really, considering that Green Glue never completely sets up, remaining viscus, much as Sorbothane) over a period of about twenty-four-hours. This creates a sound/vibration absorbing gypsum board/Green Glue ‘sandwich’ which reduces structural vibration/sound transmission by several factors versus untreated, duel-layer drywall alone, by converting the friction of structural vibration into minute amounts of heat, analogous to the way that the PS Audio Noise Harvester converts AC Mains noise to light. The products I described - among others of which I have personally used to great advantage - can conveniently be found at the following link; isostore.com/product-catalog.html#resilient-sound-clips Regards P.S. I am NOT affiliated in any way - except as a paying customer - with IsoStore. Regards
I am referring to the five gallon buckets of Green Glue, not the tubes (with which I have no experience), and I know that if one follows the manufacturer’s instructions to the letter and without deviation or modification, Green Glue performs as advertised. Actually, there are several pitfalls that will compromise - even sabotage - an installation, thwarting one’s best efforts. This is an area where knowledge and experience rules over research. For instance, if the outermost edges of the Sheetrock are physically touching any adjacent walls - including the floor and/or ceiling - at any point where any of the room boundaries meet, or should one happen to apply too much Green Glue, or should one apply an uneven layer of Green Glue, or if one uses more Sheetrock screws than are absolutely necessary, etc., the otherwise predictable, desired results will become unachievable, and one’s money will have been wasted. Understand that Green Glue is a part - a single component - of a combination of various materials, selected and installed using specialized, deliberate construction techniques - which are not obvious to the average novice - that when recognized, accounted for, planned for, combined and executed using the proper tools, will yield the desired results. This type of undertaking should not be viewed as a weekend project for a novice DIY’er or group of novices, including even many so-called ‘experienced contractors.’ Not if one wishes to achieve good results, that is. Though every situation is different, Green Glue can be an effective component in achieving good sound isolation results. Professionals use Green Glue the world over to good effect and high acclaim, because professionals understand Green Glue’s uses, properties, advantages, requirements, and limitations. And, they have the knowledge and experience required to be consistently successful in it’s proper use.
@@waynecharlton3081 I build a room with the classic bricks, cast cover, and layers of: wood, textile foam, aluminum, wood. to attach the propper panels, reflectors or diffusors.
I remember there was a plugin for Winamp years ago that processed the audio to make it sound like it was being put through a valve amplifier, and another one by the same developer to add the noise of vinyl. I can't quite remember what they were called, though.
Just use rockwool, but you don't want just one layer in the centre not enough for true isolation you need to have an air gap as well, so on one of the walls give yourself an air gap lined on the inside with rockwool. Make a thin studded wall next to the other studded wall with an air gap. Ideally the battens the top and bottom should have some acoustic tape and use putty to seal all joints. There's a Czech company that makes valves highly rated, and makes amplifiers probably the best preamp in the world P130 that is KR audio. I wonder what their preamp would sound like with your mono blocks? You should be using their tubes in your construction they are superior to anybody elsa's even using special glass lead crystal I think. Have won numerous awards for the quality of their tubes
John sweda A funnel thing I’ve noticed is that many people who regularly make negative comments against Paul are big fans of rockwool. Rockwool in the walls, rockwool instead of footers, rockwool instead of snake oil, etc.
how does the listening room materials affect the sound? i wouldnt put my IRS if i had any into a cardboard box like the average american house. brick or concrete walls would be my first choice.
Paul, is it true your videos are a bit out of order ??? I thought the construction was well beyond this point, as shown in EARLIER presentations! Keep us informed sir (O:
Not so much out of order but out of time. I typically record a block of them at a time and the sequencing gets out of whack so that things that are yet to happen when I record them are old history when they playback. Sorry.
Say there paul, I wish you would actually go into more detail on some of these issues because there are a lot of details you are leaving out. For instance transformers only limit bass if the amp is single ended and the transformer is lacking on inductance. Push pull amps usually dont have those problems. Mosfet outputs usually require a DC blocking or output capacitor which has its own set of issues. What about even order vs odd order distortion. What about linearity. What about transient response. The list goes on and on. I think it would be cool if every once and a while you could do a 20 minute sit down and really dive in to a particular topic on an engineering level.
MOSFETS are much better and if you want to add the distortion from a tube power amp, you can add a DSP processor emulating such distortion. Then you can also tweak and try other distortions you might enjoy. Well, my opinion is less distortion is better thus tubes for power amps is a ridiculous idea.
ThinkingBetter I have the original CJ MV 45 power amp in tube I think it was good to have kept it original. It still sounds good I have the original tubes and one set from CJ as replacements. Anyway once I got into the Infinity Kappas that amp was not even remotely a possibility. I notice however the price is more than I paid for it and the vintage "rare" aspect is creeping in. Pretty nice piece need to plug it into my new used KEF LS50s with the CJ PV10 B but they actually like power and have them with a couple 150 watt monoblocks.
You just don't get it. People don't want a reproduction of tube sound, they want tubes. Does solid state sound more accurate and puts out more power? Yes. Are tubes Obsolete? Probably. Can you copy "tube sound" with DSP? Maybe. Still I like them. It's just a fascinating technology that shouldn't rot in the museums or the landfills. Amplifying sound with lightbulb-related devices is just stunning. Also, sound has a lot to do with psychology. Even if the made in china DSP manages to reproduce the same sound as a 50s tube amp objectively, it will still subjectively sound different to most people.
WESTEL Audio Actually I exactly get that. My point is that those people being religious about tubes are often ignorant about the fact that their tubes are adding a distortion that has no magic to it. The looks of a glowing tube is a fair attraction though.
The BH curve of the tube amplifier output transformer core material will create harmonics, unless the BH curve is very square, and the signal never operates outside of the linear region.
Lol, tell that to every serious guitar player ever that tubes should not be on the output stage of an amplifier.... The funny thing is Paul, all the music you listen (especially the old rock, heck even most new rock as well) was absolutely 100% tube output stage amplifiers being recorded. I get that for audio clarity tubes may not be the ideal source for moving loud speakers, but it is for guitar amplification. I do though however own mostly hybrid style guitar amps (preamp tube stage, with solid state rectification and power section), why? Because I don't hear this big huge difference that some guys make it out to be... There is a difference, but not at 10 times the cost of an amp, no thank you. And besides no one has ever come up to me after a show and said that my guitar sound was awful, typically I get praises on my guitar tone.
Real short video if I made it. "Are MOSFET amps as good as tube amps?" No. All else being equal, of course. A well designed SS amp with quality construction will sound better than a poorly done tube amp.
For my new active 3-way I'm going to use Hypex Class-D for the woofers, KT88 tube monoblocks for the midranges and Mosfets for the tweeters. I think there's nothing like "best" - it's only a question of usage, what to use for what purpose and where. All have advantages and disadvantages (no big secret) but with today's tools and quality, we can surpass the past easily so even if I use 4xKT88 tubes per monoblock I'm not worried about lifetime, power-on hours, biasing, protection circuits, etc... - all this will be monitored and handled by a microcontroller. Btw the European manufacturer TESLA which went bankrupt in 1989 in Czechoslovakia has been bought and all of their machines are used now by JJ Electronics (Slovakia) who probably upgraded/refurbished the machinery already and make very good tubes at a reasonable price. Worth to check them out. Cheers.
How about a good used MOSCODE amp from the 80's, tubes and mosfets as I recall. It didn't seem to catch on for a while, not sure why. I agree that the component parts are better now and if designed right the solid state can be impressive. No matter, I still can hear some kind of an altered soundscape with various solid state amps. There's that little bit of a "manufactured" spice added thing with many solid state amps.
A FET will blow a firebottle out of the water every day of the week. Tubes have distortion and degrade quickly with use. FET's will remain clear as the day you bought it. "Tube sound" isn't hifi. Its just people who like distortion in their music. Now for guitar amplifiers fire bottles are great. For hifi they are not.
You evidently never heard good tube gear. Designed right the output tubes will last a decently long time. The rest will last decades. And no, distortion can be as low as any solid state again designed right. Not the .000000001 percent as once was deemed necessary back in the 80s (not as important in reality), but low enough not to be heard by the best ears. And I design and build both..
I've worked in a repair shop and often we'd get McIntosh amps in. After all was done and they were restored I'd hook them up to my speakers and compare them to a pair of solid state amplifiers I kept for myself and there was a difference. The tubes had noticeably less fidelity. Which is to be expected from antiquated technology. Same when I acquired some Dynaco tube amps. No mater what I did to them I couldn't make them sound as good as my stereo. There was always a noticeable drop in fidelity.
Agree, Tube amp just isn't HiFi. However, like Paul mentioned, tubes are great for input stages, they distort comparably to, or less than solid state, and as we all know, they add even harmonics, which are nicer to listen to.
You are 100% right. Could not agree more. Also electrician here. Also while a tube loses linearity very fast in the early KHz bandwidth, Mosfets will stay completely linear up to several MHz. You do not need a circuitry to prevent that. And each specific tube would need its own to work against it if you want it "perfectly". And i dont even need to mention that tubes are not capable to handle big and heavy speakers, they dont reach high dampening factors which are essential to make the driver move to the input signal. They need light weight, high efficient small speakers.
Tube amps generally have much better and more natural harmonics. However, they are more expensive, have higher distortion, can not drive many speakers under 89db's, and tubes must be replaced. Rich mans headache. if you have the $$, go for it. Otherwise, go solid state
Depends on Who Makes It . There are some great Mosfet power amps. There are some Discrete JEFT Transistors that are so Identical to a 12AX7 so the difference is not worth mentioning. Well there's actually 1 just one JEFT model that works that well, and I got a stock pile of them. The Second best JEFT is used by Marantz .
Here's one occasion where I can't altogether agree with you. Output tubes are very effective at enabling one to fine tune the voicing of a system. For example, I use KT150s to run my Thiel CS 3.5's and change to EL34s for my Quad 57s. It all sounds fabulous.
If you think you are into the distortion from a tube amplifier, I can recommend you to try out the many tube distortion emulators you can run as signal processor plugins on your PC. When you get tired of such distortion, just turn it off LOL 😊
I just hope that a scientist comes up with a cheap 'quantum physics' type of amplifier topology that is both cheap and knocks everything out of the park so we can stop this ridiculous, which is best saga!!
I had an Audio Research Tube Amp that when first listened to -- was quite beguiling; however, apart of the expense of keeping up with the expensive tubes, when I switched back to a solid state Mosfet amp, there was more detail and a solid sound, that made me realize how teeth decaying sweet the tube amp was with a euphonic synthetic sugar poisoning that ultimately did not satisfy. They may have improved; however, the cost of upkeep and the outlandish investment just does not appeal.
Well, euphonic basically means: “pleasing or sweet sound.” How I am applying it is a synthetically smoothed out sound that is very pleasing to the ears, but in the case of tube amplifiers . . . at least in my experience, a sheen -- almost as if being put through a smoothing filter to make everything, no matter what the source, all sound superficially sweet and pleasant . . . like a dessert that is slightly too high in sugar. That is my impression and opinion, which is limited to what I have been exposed to, but may or may not be another person's experience.
OK thanks. I will be doing some testing with my new speakers (KEF LS50 with REL T5 sub) that can be driven by a 45 watt tube amp (old CJ MV 45) vs solid state monoblocks. Also can test with a tube output CD player to see what happens versus a clearly more digital one. The upscaler that I thought lifted the veil with tubes that have trouble with gain (not good when channels change volume) was an expensive dog in the long run. But I digress.
I would be interested in your findings and impressions. I know Paul has said that he likes tubes, but not in the amplifier's output stage, which is where he prefers Mosfet transistors. One thing for certain, those tubes can really become expensive . . . and they do wear out seemingly very quickly also. Best to you in your musical conquest and enjoyment.
Paul, Since i have followed your you tube " thing " Nothing has created light like what you have just stated. Thank You for representing the TRUTH - at least as you see it. I find that to be in correlation to my understandings - sir. I have been at this for for well over 40 years. TRUTH is hard to find. Thank You for your efforts, please do not stop ! You have earned my respect sir, and trust. We see as a similar understanding. Huge respect for you sir !!!!! HUGE !!! Please do not stop going.......
Tube amps will have a more pleasant harmonic distortion than solid state. Mosfets are great but can sound a little fizzy. Solid state amps sound way better run in Class A (always on), but will run very hot.
doyle wayne ....... the ribbon driver panels at the front pull to pieces.. and are much easier to handle. The LF towers are laid flat and one guy at each end is all it takes ( big strong bodybuilders ..! ) I've built a 250 watt MOSFET amp .. also using an ECC83 input stage as a differential amplifier.. the circuit is a fully balanced voltage driver stage for the MOSFETS.....the total distortion is immeasurable and the damping factor is greater than 400... slew rate of 1usec... vacuum tubes cannot and will not come anywhere close to this. The output transformer is the weakest link with ALL valve output stages... C core types and sectional winding and 23% screen taps represent the pinnacle in valve design. QUAD acoustic made a power amp ..the Type II and although only 15w .. it did feature an unusual cathode winding ( hence the name QUAD.. ) these also used C core construction.
All attempts (since 1969) to switch musicians from tubes to transistors has been a complete failure. This idea almost put Fender out of business. Tube amps are here to stay. MOSFETs have no advantage over tubes. The buying public has spoken (are you listening?)
Response starts at 2:47
Thanks!
So much faffing around...
It's simple: tubes in the preamp, FETs in the power amp. The amp will live longer than you and sound beautiful.
JFETs in the preamp sound pretty good too. They're basically solid state preamp tubes. Check out the Orange Super Crush 100 for proof.
@@godzilla964 Yeah, I totally agree. As a owner of the Orange Super Crush 100 Combo 🙂
So a vacuumtube as pre amplifier?
According to David Berning, FETs are very similar to that of pentode these, which has less quality of transfer linearity than that of triode tubes. However, his classic TF -10 preamp used a patented design of a triode tube stage in series with a FET in series configuration which delivered ultimate transfer linearity. Problem with the FET is that lack of care in not powering down then preamp before unplugging and plugging back on sources caused blown FETs. Also, Berning has an OTL power amp design that is uniquely able to allow the safely eliminating output capacitors!
I totally agree in high fidelity but I like output tubes in guitar amps because of not needing the low freq. response and because of compression and sag and dare I say Mojo of amp to person contentedness. Thanks!
I like tube amplifiers, even though I currently do not have any. Until the early 1970s, I used Dynakit PAT-4 and a pair of Mark III power amps. The sound was excellent, but the main problem was that the KT-88 power tubes needed to be replaced every two years and the prices of these tubes were climbing exponentially.
I currently use a Marantz 3300 Preamp and a Model 250 power Amp. Over forty years and the only service required was a capacitor replacement in the relay coil circuit, and a set of output transistors for the right channel, which I serviced myself.
In electronic transmission theory the best power delivery and less distortion occurs when the impedance is matched. I don’t know why this isn’t important for audio amplifiers? Tube amps use transformers to provide a matching impedance to the speaker? I would be interested in your comments.
Twelve months ago I would have disagreed, I have had several glorious valve amps (toobs) and had not heard any solid state that matched the midrange, top or spacial ability although SS is usually tighter in the bass. However, I now use an ARC valve preamp with a Constellation Audio Mosfet power amp (that I believe Bascom King also had a hand in designing) and it beats the valves hands down, not just in bass but in every way.
Good component choice that you have. I go the same route as you: vacuum tube at the preamp stage and SS at the power-amp stage. The equipment I use is Audio Research LS28 and Mark Levinson 532. The combo yields the best result for me so far.
Overall, I have the tube-quality high/mid-range and the punchy bass. I cannot ask for anything better
Input stage is Tuner or Preamp???
Some 55 years ago I built a tube amplifier with about 10 or 12 output tubes which did away with the output transformer. How would such a system compare with a MOSFET output amp?
Tube preamps are still fairly common for microphones, but even then typically the tube is just used as a buffer to produce some harmonic saturation.
That's why I have a Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000 poweramp. Four 5751 's in the input (pre-driverstage) and MOSFET drivers and output transistors following.
Thanks for running such an informative channel
I got a Jaycar MOSFET cheap amp and it Schiits all over my NAD c356bee. And the NAD was three times the price. The jaycar simply sounds way better. More transparent, more spacial.
Loved my Counterpoint SA-220 power amp. A pain to maintain. Finally went to a John Curl designed power amp.
I agree tubes for preamp, mosfet for output.
I love your explanations but everything is home studio oriented. Do you ever speak in terms of instrument amplifiers (i.e. guitar amps)? Just curious- not saying you should be but I would be interested in hearing what you have to say on the subject now and then. Thanks, TW
Thank you for teaching me something today. All the best from the UK
When I pulled my CJ PV 10 B with the best tubes I could find and replaced with the Bryston BP20 to go with the 4BSST the improvement was dramatic. OK maybe not a "fair" comparison price wise but I have always liked the preamp and with top of the line NOS Mullard tubes it sounds sweet. But the noise? Way higher. And the sound is really not only no better but not as good musically as the Bryston. And to keep chunking out $$ for those tubes? I notice the 12AU7 Mullards have tripled in price good thing I bought 10 of them when they were $45 each. In the past I would have agreed with your tube preamp point but see no point anymore with an 18 1/2 year old gem that still has 1 1/2 year parts and labor warranty lol.
you mentioned the staggered studs 'arent perfect' because they are joined to same boards top and bottom.
are you familiar with using hat channels and whisper clips to further isolate? also, double drywall w/o green glue in between is almost a waste of the expense on the drywall.
additionally, cut all drywall joints 1/8" short from meeting the adjoining wall/ceiling/floor. fill the gap with acoustic caulk which never hardens.
googoo gjoob drywall is not built for sound deadening it's built to get rid of toxic chemicals from china.
Paul's right on in this video. Keep'em coming Paul
I tend to have problems when replacing output valves coz some of the valve types are becoming rarer and rarer and therefore more and more expensive. MOSFET’s last long and really sound good without too much harshness, take my Hitachi HMA-9500 for instance.
Love the setting and seeing the progress on your new home.
I got SS and tube system. I have a SS integrated that gives a very similar sound to tubes. Sufficiently airy and holographic with a deep and wide soundstage.
I heard of tube amps (a very popular brand that has a very ‘awesome’ salesman who talks about point to point wiring all the time on TH-cam) that sound more like a SS.
Just listened to the Line Magnetic LM805ia, a single ended 48w integrated. The bass was tight, strong ... sound is clear, clean and solid. No issue as a tube amp.
It all depends on the design. That is a big factor.
Your friend and mentor Arnie Nudell had great taste in amplifiers. Back in the day, when Sonic Frontiers was in it's heyday, they made some of the best sounding tube gear I ever had the pleasure of listening to. It's a shame they ceased operations, but from what I understand; their budget brand that they started at that time Assemblage, is still around today and making incredible sounding gear, although it's now a lot more expensive and less budget, but uses much of what was learned from Sonic Frontiers. Again, it's too bad that Paradigm bought and ruined them with poor management...they had, to my ears at least, a much more resolving sound than either AR or VAC and were also able to control bass. I miss that company, and always wonder what kind of awesome gear they could have produced today.
I was never a fan of tube amps, never cared for how they sounded. And today mosfet amps have came a long way to how they was back in the day, and I can only imagine they'll keep improving.
Hi ! thanks again for the always interesting videos. But leaving tubes aside ... which are the best active parts for output stages between mosfets and bjts ? both are widely used.
gino Great question and I wonder too. I'm not an expert but as far as I know the useage of MOSFETs or bjts also depends on the class of the amplifier. As a class-a amplifier is very inefficient a MOSFET would be preferable as it wastes less power than a bjt. In a class-b stage bjts should work very good.
Both bjts and MOSFETs have their advantages and disadvantages so look them up and you can make a verdict yourself as it's hard to make one for somebody else. However, I have heard that bjts are of higher fidelity in sound applications but still, it depends on the application itself.
@@chielwouterscw hi thanks for the very kind and helpful reply Maybe all depends on the actual design The gifted designer can have his preferred devices and is able to extract the best performance from them Actually i see mosfets used in class A designs as you state
Vacuum tubes are voltage control devices, you need a transformer to produce current. Semiconductors are current control devices. Remember when the matching transformer was mounted on the speaker cage?
If you prefer front-end amplification it's because you desire lower S/N I guess, the output stage primary purpose is for driving the massive, likely low and trending lower as time progresses, impedance transducer?
So to me I prefer whichever sounds good to my ears and fits my budget. Another question is if all your effort should go into a single system or multiple systems, where's the balance point?
"Semiconductors are current control devices" . Attention, not all of them ! MOS-FET are VOLTAGE CONTROLLED devices, also called "semiconductor triode"
I only want to know what kind of music is demanded to insist in tubes instead integrated amplifiers as the sold in my local store. 🤔
There are a lot of cheap chinese integrated tube amps out now. Are any of them good? I see these go as low as maybe $500. But other recognized brands usually starts at $2000 or so.
The ones that review well, like Cayin and Prima Luna, are excellent amps. While not in the category of say, AR or BAT, both brands make some very good sets. I have read good things about Eastern Electric and Line Magnetic, but have never heard either to verify. Ming Da is supposed to be premium, but the one amp I heard from them was just "OK". Most of the cheaper stuff is, well, cheaper, so regardless of the country of origin, you still kinda get what you pay for.
I hate chinese crap. I dont trust it
If you walked into a guitar shop 100 years from now you will still see tube amps everywhere!
I LOVE THE NEW MUSIC ROOM!
Wish i could see it in person when its done!
What would Sencore and Triad have done back in yesteryear if MOSFET's instead of vacuum tubes were being used to power the outputs of amps back in the 50's and 60's.
I love your insightful videos Paul. Learning so much.
The impedance issue on valve output stages has always been an issue. Some of those transformers are not cheap when you run at 4 ohm. All those old valve systems such as TV and that old Kreisler record player always ran RC or Rola speakers at 16 ohm or above.
I wonder, just for giggles, if a speaker could be made to match the high impedance and take the full plate voltage of the output of a tube amp, would it sound any different than the same speaker, made for a normal 8 ohm load using transformer coupling to the tube amp like "normal". Just to hear any differences in sound. I doubt it could be done though. The voice coil would be massive, and need to be tapped and all that nasty stuff.
An electrostatic speaker can be directly driven by tubes. And there have been some examples of this.
Hey, that's cool. Interesting. Makes sense. An electrostatic speaker is essentially a high voltage transducer anyway, right?
Electrostatic speakers are driven by voltage, not current. Normally, electrostatic speakers have a step up transformer to boost the voltage high enough to drive the diaphragm. If you are driving your electrostatic speakers with an tube amp, that amp will have a step down output transformer. The obvious next step is to get rid of both transformers. The only complication is that now you have to design the speaker and the amplifier as a unit, so they are complementary.
Does a tube amp actually sound good.... Depends on who you are. Personally I don't think they sound good or bad, just different.
Tubes are still around because of guitar players. But there are great solid state amps too. The BOSS Katana and the Orange Super Crush are fantastic sounding amps, and they don't run on any tubes. They're both class AB like a tube amp, so they have a similar feel to that of a tube amp.
They sound sterile!
@@EdBenji Most people don’t care.
@@godzilla964 Most guitar players care!
Solid States and MOSFETS are best in my opinion. If you want to tailor your personal sound preference. Add DSP or graphic equalizer.
I don't even know what amps I'm playing through half the time. Especially when we arrive at some stadium somewhere in the world and only have a couple of hours to get our asses on stage. I used to know exactly what I was using before I became a world class rock star. One of the downfalls of becoming a living legend.
Apmpeg makes great bass guitars amplifriers and they use tubes for the powers amps. Marshall has Super PlexiLeed 50 watt ALL TUBE no master volume amplifliers.
These are all low fedelity applications. Ampeg SVT has great bass response but the transformers are so big that the head alone weighs nearly 100 lbs...no thanks..
@@CorvetteCoonass This is how I feel about SVT stuff. I ain't hauling around a sound I can't use for everything..
Ampeg again with those shitty kt88's? Hell nah I'm out.
Yes... there are no ''the best ''... only ''the better'' for the moment... or in a certain period of time (and in all aspects of life)... and then comes a new-old winner... and again, in the infinity... Running for the "best" to buy is a lost race, but running for the ''the best'' in science, innovation, production is a must... It would be nice if it were so... sorry... but usually it's not. Lament of an old audiophile.
beautifully expressed, I enjoyed reading that :)
Also, I assume you will be using 20 guage Drywall Furring Channel to further decouple the drywall from the frame? But, it's probably too late, as I'm sure these rooms are complete by now.
that guy over at Acoustic Fields on youtube really knows his stuff. he also has a frequent vlog. hes the pro
It is funny to hear an audiophile (Paul) concerned about the cost of "high-end" sheetrock materials.
I had a sheet Marshall valve State I picked up from Guitar Center for a while and it just had a two preamp sadly it was just one little tube that it was hanging off one of the several circuit boards that was in there but something about the kind of hybrids where it has the two preamp and I saw a state power amp that those just have a wicked monsters amount of distortion that goes pretty surprised to see at that time that I had it that rigs the guitarist the first guitarist for a while there for Rob Zombie's band he used some huge valve States and he also used some other brand I think there was some kind of heavy metal tube amp and he kind of ran both systems together but yeah here like that it's all stay hybrid and quite a few people did but I mean taking it apart and looking at it just it looks like it would sound like crap you only get that one little tube in there but yeah the the Distortion is wicked.
The Dogs Bollocks, take it that's a technical term, and very aromatic when heated.
Interestingly enough, I have recently discovered that it is not tubes or transistors that I prefer, but the class of operation. Class A is better than AB, single ended Class A is best. I don't care for Class D at all. The discovery of my affinity for single ended operation rather than single ended triode tube operation, came after building a single ended transistor amp that demonstrates the same luscious character as my single ended triode tube amps. The cost? Eight watts per channel on the transistor amp, two watts from the tubes. Speaker choice is critical and options are very limited.
The subject of transformer couping I find confusing. Since a tube amp cannot be used without transformers, how do you know how much damage the transformer does to the sound? I have a pair of electrostatics that I used to drive with tubes (75 and 150 watt Class AB) although not currently. The first thing the amplifier sees after it's output, is step up transformers. The same is true for a ribbon tweeter I have on a different pair of speakers. Audio Note of England uses interstage and output transformers almost everywhere in their, admittedly tube, electronics. The amp I have driving the electrostatics now is a tube input solid state output hybrid (sorry, not PS Audio). According to Paul, this is ideal. I find myself being drawn however, to the high distortion, low power, transformer coupled, delicious sounding, triodes that I love. Soon to be replaced with single ended transistors? We'll see...
And if you are going to tell me I am listening to euphonic distortion; 1.) I already know. 2.) I don't care. 3.) Why is beautiful sound bad? 4.) How do I get more euphony?
We talk about Mosfet, no we talk about wood isolation, where were i?. Like Grandpa simpsons
What kind of MOSFETs... Lateral? Instead of the tube front end, what about JFETs? Seem easier to me.
JFETs are an excellent choice for a front end and we use them in severakl of our designs. They don't handle a lot of current or voltage so they're relegated to front ends, but as such, they can be excellent.
PS Audio, What kind of MOSFETs do you use on the output stage? Do they have positive or negative temp coef.? Will they share the load nicely or do you have to use bias/balancing resistors like on bipolars?
Mosfets are mostly like tubes without the microphonics.. and if you design with all n channel fets instead of n and p channel the stage is more in harmony.. im not against tubes in the drive stage but I still believe in class a preamp.. jfets seem to be the choice these days..but ive heard bjt preamps sound good if used back to back like nelson did years ago..think it was called dc stage.. they were sharing exact temp with each other and so that means less or zero feedback.. my friend john pleitz designed the best n channel output stage . That sadly the world sortta copied. LETS ENCOURAGE JOHN PLEITZ TO DESIGN A NO LIMIT HOME AMP DESIGN.. its time john i just told the world your the best at this..
@ Paul, there are BJT's, Mosfet, Tube technologies etc... There is another type of technology that enhances them all, said in few words! Would you like to try it Paul? I'm willing to sign on PS Audio royalty free to promote the technology! I have two patent pending technologies that are simply amazing, I actually feel guilty not disclosing to any company. My only requirement is a signed NDA...
Put some kind of rubber foam into the walls..that insulates from.noise incredibly
It's too bad Sony stopped making 2SJ18 and 2SK60 V-FETs (Vertical Field Effect Transistors). Back then, production was finicky and tolerances were difficult to achieve. Just imagine what could have happened if they'd continued improvement over the past forty years!
@MisterMac56 V-FET unreliability explains the complexity of the protection circuits. There are some dual-diodes in the circuit that tend to fail, and if they do, they take the V-FETs with them. I have a TAN-5550 that I bought new (demo room amp). I'm in the process of re-capping it. My hope is to keep it going.
Sony is kind of a funny company. I have a PS-X75 turntable that has a computer to control automation and the Biotracer arm. If that chip goes out, there are no more. I've heard that it may be possible to replace the chip with an Arduino, but there's lots of programming. The caps in the power supply tend to fail, taking the processor chip with them.
@MisterMac56 The turntable was not a trivial purchase for me. I think it was $850, so that comes down to ~$22/year. If I had invested that money, I probably would have lost it in the market or a divorce. I purchased some exotic silicone grease, and I plan to re-lube and re-cap. The cartridge is an Adcom cross-coil with line trace diamond. I think the "rubber" sealing the cantilever has changed for the worse. It's a moving coil with high enough voltage to drive my preamp without an additional preamp.
Answer begins at 2:47
They do look cool too.
Studs look too evenly spaced leading to resonances
Rockwool, rockwool insulation for between rooms.
2:47 answer begins
Hasn't this already been answered ? Paul you seem to be going over the same questions and answers, can we get different questions ?
the King has spoken
... also known as ‘staggered stud construction.’
For the amount of money you’ve spent on your new building, Paul, and the considerable amount of trouble that you’ve gone to constructing these new sound/demo rooms, I’d have expected you to use completely separate stud walls to minimize ‘bleed through’ of sound from the adjacent sound/demo rooms. Another way - since you still have time to do it - is to create structurally decoupled ‘hanging walls’ by using an isolation device called Genie Clips, which accommodate lightweight, steel channel that, with a bit of effort, snaps into the Genie Clips in horizontal arrangement, upon which to mount the drywall. I realize that you prefer not to use any steel in the wall construction of your new rooms, but there’s really no call for concern in regards thereto. The above described process - correctly implemented - will yield large dividends in structural vibration control and isolation, well worth using the minimal amount of steel channel required to hang the walls and ceilings.
Another item you seem to have overlooked - though it is NOT a ‘miracle product’ - is the use of an economical vibration dampening product called Green Glue. This water-based ‘goo’ is available in five-gallon pails, and would be applied by hand, via specialized trowel, directly to the surface of the second layer sheets of drywall in as-you-go fashion just prior to hanging, in uniform, one-eighth-inch coats on all secondary-layers of drywall walls and ceilings (floors too - in the case of a layered, wooden-underlayment-upon-floor-joist installation - just don’t screw any of the underlayment flooring to the floor joists, as this would negate the effectiveness of the Green Glue and defeat the purpose), with the second layer of drywall sparingly screwed directly to the steel channel (this would require longer drywall screws than the first layer, of course) in a staggered-seem pattern, vis-à-vis the first layer of gypsum board. Once the glue sets (a misnomer, really, considering that Green Glue never completely sets up, remaining viscus, much as Sorbothane) over a period of about twenty-four-hours. This creates a sound/vibration absorbing gypsum board/Green Glue ‘sandwich’ which reduces structural vibration/sound transmission by several factors versus untreated, duel-layer drywall alone, by converting the friction of structural vibration into minute amounts of heat, analogous to the way that the PS Audio Noise Harvester converts AC Mains noise to light.
The products I described - among others of which I have personally used to great advantage - can conveniently be found at the following link;
isostore.com/product-catalog.html#resilient-sound-clips
Regards
P.S. I am NOT affiliated in any way - except as a paying customer - with IsoStore.
Regards
I am referring to the five gallon buckets of Green Glue, not the tubes (with which I have no experience), and I know that if one follows the manufacturer’s instructions to the letter and without deviation or modification, Green Glue performs as advertised.
Actually, there are several pitfalls that will compromise - even sabotage - an installation, thwarting one’s best efforts. This is an area where knowledge and experience rules over research. For instance, if the outermost edges of the Sheetrock are physically touching any adjacent walls - including the floor and/or ceiling - at any point where any of the room boundaries meet, or should one happen to apply too much Green Glue, or should one apply an uneven layer of Green Glue, or if one uses more Sheetrock screws than are absolutely necessary, etc., the otherwise predictable, desired results will become unachievable, and one’s money will have been wasted. Understand that Green Glue is a part - a single component - of a combination of various materials, selected and installed using specialized, deliberate construction techniques - which are not obvious to the average novice - that when recognized, accounted for, planned for, combined and executed using the proper tools, will yield the desired results.
This type of undertaking should not be viewed as a weekend project for a novice DIY’er or group of novices, including even many so-called ‘experienced contractors.’ Not if one wishes to achieve good results, that is. Though every situation is different, Green Glue can be an effective component in achieving good sound isolation results. Professionals use Green Glue the world over to good effect and high acclaim, because professionals understand Green Glue’s uses, properties, advantages, requirements, and limitations. And, they have the knowledge and experience required to be consistently successful in it’s proper use.
@@waynecharlton3081 I build a room with the classic bricks, cast cover, and layers of: wood, textile foam, aluminum, wood. to attach the propper panels, reflectors or diffusors.
Answer: Yes
I wouldn't use tubes for a power stage ever. Maybe for preamps, but not power.
I remember there was a plugin for Winamp years ago that processed the audio to make it sound like it was being put through a valve amplifier, and another one by the same developer to add the noise of vinyl. I can't quite remember what they were called, though.
Just use rockwool, but you don't want just one layer in the centre not enough for true isolation you need to have an air gap as well, so on one of the walls give yourself an air gap lined on the inside with rockwool. Make a thin studded wall next to the other studded wall with an air gap. Ideally the battens the top and bottom should have some acoustic tape and use putty to seal all joints. There's a Czech company that makes valves highly rated, and makes amplifiers probably the best preamp in the world P130 that is KR audio. I wonder what their preamp would sound like with your mono blocks? You should be using their tubes in your construction they are superior to anybody elsa's even using special glass lead crystal I think. Have won numerous awards for the quality of their tubes
John sweda A funnel thing I’ve noticed is that many people who regularly make negative comments against Paul are big fans of rockwool. Rockwool in the walls, rockwool instead of footers, rockwool instead of snake oil, etc.
And whats your point! I haven't said a negative comment just advice
The Russian Latest Invented KT-150 Series No Tubes Microphonic Generate.
how does the listening room materials affect the sound? i wouldnt put my IRS if i had any into a cardboard box like the average american house.
brick or concrete walls would be my first choice.
Why use Sheetrock at all why not build a dubbel wall with concrete blocks.
Paul, is it true your videos are a bit out of order ??? I thought the construction was well beyond this point, as shown in EARLIER presentations! Keep us informed sir (O:
Not so much out of order but out of time. I typically record a block of them at a time and the sequencing gets out of whack so that things that are yet to happen when I record them are old history when they playback. Sorry.
Say there paul, I wish you would actually go into more detail on some of these issues because there are a lot of details you are leaving out. For instance transformers only limit bass if the amp is single ended and the transformer is lacking on inductance. Push pull amps usually dont have those problems.
Mosfet outputs usually require a DC blocking or output capacitor which has its own set of issues.
What about even order vs odd order distortion. What about linearity. What about transient response. The list goes on and on.
I think it would be cool if every once and a while you could do a 20 minute sit down and really dive in to a particular topic on an engineering level.
Marshall JCM800 vs. Marshall Mosfet
MOSFETS are much better and if you want to add the distortion from a tube power amp, you can add a DSP processor emulating such distortion. Then you can also tweak and try other distortions you might enjoy. Well, my opinion is less distortion is better thus tubes for power amps is a ridiculous idea.
ThinkingBetter I have the original CJ MV 45 power amp in tube I think it was good to have kept it original. It still sounds good I have the original tubes and one set from CJ as replacements. Anyway once I got into the Infinity Kappas that amp was not even remotely a possibility. I notice however the price is more than I paid for it and the vintage "rare" aspect is creeping in. Pretty nice piece need to plug it into my new used KEF LS50s with the CJ PV10 B but they actually like power and have them with a couple 150 watt monoblocks.
You just don't get it. People don't want a reproduction of tube sound, they want tubes.
Does solid state sound more accurate and puts out more power? Yes.
Are tubes Obsolete? Probably.
Can you copy "tube sound" with DSP? Maybe.
Still I like them. It's just a fascinating technology that shouldn't rot in the museums or the landfills. Amplifying sound with lightbulb-related devices is just stunning. Also, sound has a lot to do with psychology. Even if the made in china DSP manages to reproduce the same sound as a 50s tube amp objectively, it will still subjectively sound different to most people.
WESTEL Audio Actually I exactly get that. My point is that those people being religious about tubes are often ignorant about the fact that their tubes are adding a distortion that has no magic to it. The looks of a glowing tube is a fair attraction though.
The BH curve of the tube amplifier output transformer core material will create harmonics, unless the BH curve is very square, and the signal never operates outside of the linear region.
Lol, tell that to every serious guitar player ever that tubes should not be on the output stage of an amplifier.... The funny thing is Paul, all the music you listen (especially the old rock, heck even most new rock as well) was absolutely 100% tube output stage amplifiers being recorded. I get that for audio clarity tubes may not be the ideal source for moving loud speakers, but it is for guitar amplification. I do though however own mostly hybrid style guitar amps (preamp tube stage, with solid state rectification and power section), why? Because I don't hear this big huge difference that some guys make it out to be... There is a difference, but not at 10 times the cost of an amp, no thank you. And besides no one has ever come up to me after a show and said that my guitar sound was awful, typically I get praises on my guitar tone.
Real short video if I made it. "Are MOSFET amps as good as tube amps?" No.
All else being equal, of course. A well designed SS amp with quality construction will sound better than a poorly done tube amp.
What about Mosvac amps???
There are output transformerless tube amps
julies Futternabs Labs amplifiers.
For my new active 3-way I'm going to use Hypex Class-D for the woofers, KT88 tube monoblocks for the midranges and Mosfets for the tweeters. I think there's nothing like "best" - it's only a question of usage, what to use for what purpose and where. All have advantages and disadvantages (no big secret) but with today's tools and quality, we can surpass the past easily so even if I use 4xKT88 tubes per monoblock I'm not worried about lifetime, power-on hours, biasing, protection circuits, etc... - all this will be monitored and handled by a microcontroller. Btw the European manufacturer TESLA which went bankrupt in 1989 in Czechoslovakia has been bought and all of their machines are used now by JJ Electronics (Slovakia) who probably upgraded/refurbished the machinery already and make very good tubes at a reasonable price. Worth to check them out. Cheers.
Technics SA DA 8 here
I think the more interesting question is why are so many companies now going to class D.
Because class D amplification is progressing so well that now even audiophile grade class D amps are becoming a reality.
How about a good used MOSCODE amp from the 80's, tubes and mosfets as I recall. It didn't seem to catch on for a while, not sure why. I agree that the component parts are better now and if designed right the solid state can be impressive. No matter, I still can hear some kind of an altered soundscape with various solid state amps. There's that little bit of a "manufactured" spice added thing with many solid state amps.
A FET will blow a firebottle out of the water every day of the week.
Tubes have distortion and degrade quickly with use.
FET's will remain clear as the day you bought it.
"Tube sound" isn't hifi. Its just people who like distortion in their music.
Now for guitar amplifiers fire bottles are great. For hifi they are not.
You evidently never heard good tube gear. Designed right the output tubes will last a decently long time. The rest will last decades. And no, distortion can be as low as any solid state again designed right. Not the .000000001 percent as once was deemed necessary back in the 80s (not as important in reality), but low enough not to be heard by the best ears. And I design and build both..
I've worked in a repair shop and often we'd get McIntosh amps in. After all was done and they were restored I'd hook them up to my speakers and compare them to a pair of solid state amplifiers I kept for myself and there was a difference. The tubes had noticeably less fidelity. Which is to be expected from antiquated technology.
Same when I acquired some Dynaco tube amps. No mater what I did to them I couldn't make them sound as good as my stereo. There was always a noticeable drop in fidelity.
Agree, Tube amp just isn't HiFi. However, like Paul mentioned, tubes are great for input stages, they distort comparably to, or less than solid state, and as we all know, they add even harmonics, which are nicer to listen to.
You are 100% right. Could not agree more. Also electrician here.
Also while a tube loses linearity very fast in the early KHz bandwidth, Mosfets will stay completely linear up to several MHz. You do not need a circuitry to prevent that. And each specific tube would need its own to work against it if you want it "perfectly".
And i dont even need to mention that tubes are not capable to handle big and heavy speakers, they dont reach high dampening factors which are essential to make the driver move to the input signal. They need light weight, high efficient small speakers.
so bjt is the way to go?
Paul you are a funny gentlemen.
Tube amps generally have much better and more natural harmonics. However, they are more expensive, have higher distortion, can not drive many speakers under 89db's, and tubes must be replaced. Rich mans headache. if you have the $$, go for it. Otherwise, go solid state
Congrats on the new place! Glad to see you guys growing and prosperous.
Depends on Who Makes It . There are some great Mosfet power amps. There are some Discrete JEFT Transistors that are so Identical to a 12AX7 so the difference is not worth mentioning. Well there's actually 1 just one JEFT model that works that well, and I got a stock pile of them. The Second best JEFT is used by Marantz .
Here's one occasion where I can't altogether agree with you. Output tubes are very effective at enabling one to fine tune the voicing of a system. For example, I use KT150s to run my Thiel CS 3.5's and change to EL34s for my Quad 57s. It all sounds fabulous.
top marks on using the dog bollocks!!! :D
Are tube amps as good as MOSFET amps?
If you think you are into the distortion from a tube amplifier, I can recommend you to try out the many tube distortion emulators you can run as signal processor plugins on your PC. When you get tired of such distortion, just turn it off LOL 😊
Ever think of writing a script instead of stream of conscious rambling.
😂😂😂
I just hope that a scientist comes up with a cheap 'quantum physics' type of amplifier topology that is both cheap and knocks everything out of the park so we can stop this ridiculous, which is best saga!!
You mean Class D :)
I had an Audio Research Tube Amp that when first listened to -- was quite beguiling; however, apart of the expense of keeping up with the expensive tubes, when I switched back to a solid state Mosfet amp, there was more detail and a solid sound, that made me realize how teeth decaying sweet the tube amp was with a euphonic synthetic sugar poisoning that ultimately did not satisfy. They may have improved; however, the cost of upkeep and the outlandish investment just does not appeal.
russmaleartist could you detail what you mean by euphonic?
Well, euphonic basically means: “pleasing or sweet sound.” How I am applying it is a synthetically smoothed out sound that is very pleasing to the ears, but in the case of tube amplifiers . . . at least in my experience, a sheen -- almost as if being put through a smoothing filter to make everything, no matter what the source, all sound superficially sweet and pleasant . . . like a dessert that is slightly too high in sugar. That is my impression and opinion, which is limited to what I have been exposed to, but may or may not be another person's experience.
OK thanks. I will be doing some testing with my new speakers (KEF LS50 with REL T5 sub) that can be driven by a 45 watt tube amp (old CJ MV 45) vs solid state monoblocks. Also can test with a tube output CD player to see what happens versus a clearly more digital one. The upscaler that I thought lifted the veil with tubes that have trouble with gain (not good when channels change volume) was an expensive dog in the long run. But I digress.
I would be interested in your findings and impressions. I know Paul has said that he likes tubes, but not in the amplifier's output stage, which is where he prefers Mosfet transistors. One thing for certain, those tubes can really become expensive . . . and they do wear out seemingly very quickly also. Best to you in your musical conquest and enjoyment.
Paul, Since i have followed your you tube " thing " Nothing has created light like what you have just stated. Thank You for
representing the TRUTH - at least as you see it. I find that to be in correlation to my understandings - sir.
I have been at this for for well over 40 years. TRUTH is hard to find. Thank You for your efforts, please do not stop !
You have earned my respect sir, and trust. We see as a similar understanding. Huge respect for you sir !!!!! HUGE !!!
Please do not stop going.......
In blind tests, listeners chose the tube amp every time. Quite simply tube amps always sounded better. Your ears don't lie to you.
Tube amps will have a more pleasant harmonic distortion than solid state. Mosfets are great but can sound a little fizzy. Solid state amps sound way better run in Class A (always on), but will run very hot.
who is going to carry the IRS 5 's upstairs, very exciting , thanks Paul
doyle wayne ....... the ribbon driver panels at the front pull to pieces.. and are much easier to handle. The LF towers are laid flat and one guy at each end is all it takes ( big strong bodybuilders ..! )
I've built a 250 watt MOSFET amp .. also using an ECC83 input stage as a differential amplifier.. the circuit is a fully balanced voltage driver stage for the MOSFETS.....the total distortion is immeasurable and the damping factor is greater than 400... slew rate of 1usec... vacuum tubes cannot and will not come anywhere close to this.
The output transformer is the weakest link with ALL valve output stages... C core types and sectional winding and 23% screen taps represent the pinnacle in valve design. QUAD acoustic made a power amp ..the Type II and although only 15w .. it did feature an unusual cathode winding ( hence the name QUAD.. ) these also used C core construction.
All attempts (since 1969) to switch musicians from tubes to transistors has been a complete failure. This idea almost put Fender out of business. Tube amps are here to stay. MOSFETs have no advantage over tubes. The buying public has spoken (are you listening?)
I wish he was my grandpa'.
MOSVALVE!