I've been watching your videos on and off for about half a year now. What I love about your channel is in addition to the technical know how, you guys just seem to be having a grand old time! This video perfectly encapsulates that. Also, driftwood crawling looks kind of like rock crawling with less vehicular damage. It should be more of a thing!
Thanks for that comment and I totally agree that drift wood crawling should be more of a thing! It is definitely a fun way to see what your rig can do!
Super informative video. Love being able to see all these different modes of traction control put to the test and see how they differ. Really appreciate you taking the time to put this video together. Thanks for sharing!
@@OverlandPNW, recognition is well deserved. The content you are producing and its format are both uncommonly useful and a bit rare. It’s also a lot of work. It’s a bonus you guys play in the same wildernesses I do. I hope you keep at it.
Seems you lean towards lockers as a preference. Having all the choices on your rig, you certainly can speak from a unique perspective. As you say however, every situation is different. Styles of driving and terrain usually are the deciding factors. What I think was a big take away here for people is the fact that you stated the integrated traction aids on the TRD vehicles are generally only good for short term use. For pro-long use, lockers are a better solution. I agree. IF one is going to be sustaining long periods of clawing through obstacles, such as boulders, lockers for sure. The majority of the population that OR are NOT in sustained need of a traction aid. Which is probably why Toyota does not feel lockers are really necessary since their traction aids will suffice. What do you think about the NEW Trail hunter? Would you like to see the next 4R TRD-OR come with a DC sway bar? Or is the KDSS more than adequate?
Well said and I agree. The other misunderstood concept about A-Trac and MTS is that people often think that once they are engaged, they are always working for them. A-Trac auto-deactivates at about 4 mph and MTS auto deactivates at about 7 mph. If you exceed those speeds and then slow back down, they will come back on line. Toyota does not want brakes suddenly applying at speeds higher than that. That said, they are absolutely spectacular systems for what they are. I have not done a deep dive into the new Trail Hunter but from the glimpses of info I have had of it, there seems to be a lot of impressive features. I'd love to see a DC sway bar on the next 4R!!
W W, I rarely agree with my brother, however, in this case we align. Your comments are spot on as well. As for me I WOULD LOVE, LOVE, LOVE a DC sway bar.
@@OverlandPNW Not sure the DC sway bar is a game changer when a 4R has the KDSS already installed. I look forward to seeing a build like yours with it installed. Only thing missing then I suppose would be hover mode where the vehicle floats above the obstacle if stuck. 🤣
First, I got to say, I love your videos, they are educational and very entertaining. I own a 2020 TRD Pro and although I lived in California for 30 years, I moved to Georgia and the off roading landscape is not the same...
That 2020 TRD Pro is as good as it gets! Yeah, moving can really be challenging especially when it comes to finding good off-roading. hope you can find some good trails!
Another fun video to watch and learn from. Hope to run across you fellas at some point. I’m in Kitsap County WA and spend much of my Offroad time in the Olympics.
It would have been helpful to see the actual settings on the controls as you used them since there are several options. The dog technical advisor was essential. Thanks for sharing your experience!
So true! It is all about learning what your particular vehicle will do in any given situation. Thanks for the comment! You are so close to 1K subs, nice!
Great video showing how the different traction types work. I think I heard it mentioned that tires are definitely a factor. I noticed both rigs are on BFG K02s. These tires nor A/T in general are the best tires for sand, and I'm sure you know this and probably didn't want to spend money on tires just for this evaluation. You have the traction devices, but the tires are the limiting factor in that full M/Ts work best here. You guys did a really good job comparing the various traction control methods. The video was well done. 👍
That's a great observation about tire choice in the sand. There are some spectacular sand-specific tires choices. I'd love to have the budget to have different sets of tires for different terrain types. That being said, you have actually tapped into a long standing debate about whether All-Terrain or Mud-Terrain tires are better in the sand. If you Google "Are all terrain tires better than mud terrain tires in the sand" you will get a bunch of articles on this topic. With regard to sand, the conventional wisdom seems to be leaning toward the idea that all terrain tires are better in the sand. Here is why: Sand is a tricky landscape to work with. Mud tires tend to be more aggressive, especially if they have larger tread designs and deeper voids. This might have a habit of digging you down into the ground in sandy environments instead of shooting you forward. In sandy situations, an all-terrain tire might be the better way to go. It’s just because they have tighter treads which will help with grip, flotation and momentum. The BF Goodrich K02 All Terrain tire has 10 consecutive Dakar victories after all. That’s not to say that a mud-terrain tire wouldn’t do well on a beach or in the desert, but it might not be the best fit if you are primarily driving on this type of terrain. It all depends, if you are driving a sand rail, by all means use a paddle tire or a mud tire and send a rooster tail of sand behind you as you rocket across the sand. Please understand, I am not disagreeing with you. Just the opposite. I think tire choice in the sand is a great observation. It comes down to this: there is probably no one correct answer that fits all vehicle types, sand conditions, driver experience, etc. It is up to each driver to decide what tire works best for his/her vehicle and the terrain conditions. I love talking about this stuff and learn something new every time a great comment like this is posted. I also freely admit I have never tried mud terrain tires in the sand. So, I do no have that experience to speak from. Anyway, great comment and thanks and again for the great observation.
@@OverlandPNW I have seen, the articles, YT, and conversations within my circle about this as well. I digress a little in that I think it may depend more on how the M/T is designed, the same as with an A/T. There are so many nuances regarding traction control types, technique, tire choice, driver, and the list goes on lol. Anyway, great video, I enjoyed it!
@@terrarecon Great point. Sounds like you have more experience with M/T tires in the sand than I do. So, I'll defer to you. I'd like to give them a try some day!
As always top notch explanations, proper video representation of the situations being discussed! Keep up the good work dude! Hopefully we cross paths to wheel some! 🙌🏻
@@OverlandPNW it’s an awesome rock lander, been doing some stuff for Louie and definitely it’s top notch. Will be doing a walk around of another friend with a top level overland Tacoma. Thanks for the support 🙌🏻
Nothing replaces lockers. I tried it with the Bronco in Moab, using the traction control to see how far it would go. I would then only add the rear locker when it didn’t have the capability without it. Then there was one climb that wouldn’t happen without the addition of the rear.
Great videos. Thank you just got a mint 2011 Trail Edition T4R and this really helped me understand all the gadgets this thing came with. Gave it a shakedown on some medium trails and obstacles and it all worked amazing. Look forward to next adventure because I’ll know what to use when now! Can you share what tire sizes you guys have in this video? I want to upgrade from the BFG Rugged trails to K02s as that’s what I ran on my 2nd gen and they were best tires ever. No issues and never had to even drop pressure in deep soft Hawaii sand. Currently on 265/70r17 but want to bump up to a small 33. Running a Bilstein level kit. 5160s rear and 6112 in front. Appears to have plenty clearance for a bigger tire
With our lifts, which are about 3", the sweet spot in tire size is 285/75R17. We've tried 315/70R17 and they are a little too big. We run K02s as well. Cheers!
Coming from abu dhabi, there's no better friend than a friend with another 4x4. And snatch strap. The most important factor for success in bottomless talcum powder sand is low psi. I'm talking 5 psi or less. If you're already there and can't get out yourself, diff lockers probably won't do jack squat, unless you're waving at someone, and even then it's hit and miss. They can only help. The best and most dependable solution is always your convoy, as you never, ever go alone into the desert. Tl;dr: lockers over a-trac/crawl, and buddy over anything.
Great video! Lots of info. I only have rear lockers on the 2022 4runner (plus all the other Toyota OR tech). I've yet to be unable to recover myself, but I'm really careful with my lines. I'd like to know the pros/cons with getting front lockers on a IFS system. I know nothing about that.
@@OverlandPNW We are not hitting the Expo (have plans for the one here in CO), this is more of a pleasure cruise than an overlanding trip. Starting off around Morro Bay and then heading north. Apparently camping at a few wineries and hopefully a beach or two.
My preference is a traction control system (atrac, crawl control, terrain response) for sand driving. If you have to turn sharply, you will dig with lockers. Lockers also will wear your shafts and drivetrain out faster with constant binding. It's also really nice to not have to constantly lock and unlock. I know my TC system is different than most, but it doesn't allow for much wheel spin.
Good points! I did not mention it in the video but I never leave lockers on full time while in the sand. There's no point to it. I just engage them situationally. I'm not familiar with the Land Rover traction control system but I'm sure it is a good one. The Toyota A-Trac only works in 4WD Low and only up to about 4 mph. Then it auto deactivates. The MTS system has a 4WD high setting but it auto deactivates at about 7 mph. Even within those parameters, both the A-Trac and MTS systems seem to work really well in the sand. From your videos, your Land Rover has no problems in the sand!
@OverlandPNW The good thing about the P38 system is it works at all speeds, high or low range. It really saves your diff from sudden changes of low to high traction situations.
Great video. I never think to use lockers in sand with my ORP. I will say, I really miss not having a center diff lock like my previous Gen 4 had. It was absolutely unstoppable in whoops and large dunes alike. Silver lake is on my calendar in a week, and I’m really hoping to test it out with my 22 ORP, after having a built to the gills 15 OR. The capabilities of these in stock form are unbelievable. The TCS on these vehicles is very confidence inspiring and leaves little real world common need to throw the catalog at them if they’re wheeled occasionally vs. recreationally.
@@coltonwaggoner5397 So true that the ORP capabilities now are truly insane. We are in agreement on that and at the end of the video I state that you do not need lockers in the sand. Having said that (not talking about just sand now, but rather all off-roading) I hear ya about missing that center diff lock!!
Yes I agree going from open diff to Locker back and forth seems annoying when I watch something go up a hill and I'm thinking if you only had quality traction control you wouldn't be spinning and then having to lock up. I drive a disco 2 in excellent condition with traction control, CDL lifted on 33s. Now I admit I would like a rear Locker someday just as a third option because I'm down in Southern Arizona and some really steep crawler type trails where the traction control even allowing for just the slightest spinning and grab makes you want to flip backwards sometimes but I suppose it's because I've become accustomed to taking my disco on stuff fit Jeep rubicon's on 33 or greater go on so that's pretty good though considering it's a 20 year old vehicle. I love the low range manual mode selection. I'm all about 3rd and 2nd gear. Crazy a lot of modern vehicles start to adopt systems like Land Rover had 20 years ago and even the newer kind aren't nearly as good. I might not even go rear Locker but perhaps Eaton truetrac. I know when you raised a wheel it's pretty much the same with traction control helping but it will help traction control not have to work as often for uneven surfaces were both wheels are touching
Love these types of videos! What beach is this? We are looking to play in the sand at some point as well but are somewhat limited in our beach selection here in AZ😁
here is the mentality I see a lot: Everything is better with lockers! Well, yes and no. Lockers are useful in certain situations and should be used sparingly. they are great for self recovery when you got stuck with open diffs. Get stuck with lockers and you're in a lot deeper than you ought to be. plus they damage tracks often. So it's sense and sensibility, use lockers wisely and as a last resort in most cases. picking the correct line makes you a better driver. Things like the crawl control are good to have as will get you out of sand, you can produce a similar effect with an auto and using the brakes to add resistance, it's not as technical, but works none-the-less. Knowledge trumps lockers! 😀
A-Trac and DAC are great if you are not doing advanced trails all day long. The break actuators will overheat and the system will automatically cancel itself if you use it for extended periods of time. A-Trac is designed to get you unstuck, to get you going from a dead stop, or to get you over a short obstacle. It is not intended for prolonged use. We have had A-Trac self-cancel due to overheating during some of our testing. It is a great system and will handle impressive obstacles. It is just a short-term tool.
Notable is the difference in lockers and Atrac every time I've done the sand and several desert trip lockers work and the correct tyre pressures, just one question, what were your tire pressures at the time? Great video
For tire pressure, we run 10 psi in the sand. That seems to work well with our wheel/tire combination. I will always prefer lockers but I like to tinker around with A-trac and test it out to see what it can do.
Yes, you are correct! I have an ARB front air locker and the rear is still the factory e-locker. But, now that I have used the ARB air locker for about 2 years, I wish I had replaced the rear e-locker with an ARB air locker as well back when I had the diffs open to re-gear.
My 2013 trail manual says the rear locker shall operate in muddy road and under 8km/hr. Need to avoid tire spinning condition. May I know whether in such beach sand condition, it’s still appropriate to use factory rear locker? I love to run on beach with certain speed to maintain momentum. Just curious whether I shall use multi terrain system sand mode or rear locker?😅
There are a couple of things to consider. You are correct that you should not exceed about 8km/hr with the rear locker engaged. And, of course, the rear locker only works in 4WD low. I usually do not use a locker as a full-time application. I only turn it on when I need it and then I turn it off. Multi-Terrain Select sand mode will work in both 4WD low and 4WD high but it also has a speed limiter. It will automatically go off line if you exceed about 11km/hr but will come back on line if you slow down below that speed. I tend to think of the Multi-Terrain Select system as something to use to get through a longer obstacle but not something to leave on. We have had the break actuators overheat and deactivate the system during testing. So, for me, both lockers and Multi-Terrain Select are systems that I turn on as needed and then turn off. On the beach, I usually just go with normal 4W drive and like you, maintain momentum. When circumstances dictate, I will choose between the locker or MTS. A lot of it comes down to driver preference. I hope that helps.
I have a spot where I can drive through a fresh water stream. That helps a lot. But make sure and thoroughly clean the vehicle especially the entire under carriage and all drivetrain, wheel, brake, motor components. Make sure you clean your wheels, especially aftermarket, chrome or polished/brushed aluminum. There are a lot of good TH-cam videos on this topic are worth checking out.
You are correct. Stock 4Runner off-road editions only have rear lockers. On this driftwood obstacle (at about 11:58), when I engaged lockers the sequence I used was front locker first, then rear locker. You are right, a good test would have been to try just rear locker!
The SR5 does not have Crawl Control. It only has A-Trac and part-time 4WD. It does not have Multi-Terrain Select and it does not have a locking rear differential. A TRD Pro is a good choice if you want something off-the shelf ready to go without a lot of modifications. If you plan on doing a lift, big tires, etc....you might consider a TRD Off-Road.
Thanks! My tires (white 4Runner) are 315/70R17. So, they are 34.36" tall and 12.4" wide. Steve (Silver 4Runner) is running 285/75R17. So, his are 33.83" tall and 11.22" wide.
@@OverlandPNW Thank you for the quick reply. I spent a fair amount of time watching your videos trying to catch a glimpse of the tire size with no luck. You guys make great videos with solid content. I look forward to many more. Be safe and thanks again.
What suspension are you running on the lunar rock with the rigd spare tire rig? I have roughly the same set up but with stock suspension. Had it for several months now and it's starting to squat in the rear.
@@gerardomata.costarica Bring your vehicle to a complete stop, put it into 4WD Low, press the rear diff lock button (you will see a red blinking light on your dash), gently depress the accelerator pedal so that the vehicle moves forward very slowly. When the red blinking light stops blinking and becomes a steady red, the locker is engaged. This should take about 1/2 to 1 rotation of the wheel. You should not exceed 5 mph with the locker engaged.
I have crawl control and I can tell you. It does not work very good in the snow and i have a jeep with ARB's and they don't work very well in the snow and i drove off road for a living got to have the right tires to even stand a chance.
You are not helping my finances. I just call a shop and waiting for a return call from the "lockers expert" who is in a call with another customer. thinking f trying Harrop E-locker in front for my TRD Pro. Its almost stock. This would be just in case type of thing. Will see..
@@aired-downoverland9239 you 2 are amazing combo. For some reason I did not get the call from the shop I called. Maybe the front desk got my number wrong. May be they are not interested for 4Runners with stock gears. Not sure. Will try another day to call or stop by and see.
Great day for goofing around. Looked like fun. 👍🏻❤️🇺🇸
There was definitely a lot of goofing around ha ha. Thanks for the comment!
@@OverlandPNWcurious, which beach is this?
I've been watching your videos on and off for about half a year now. What I love about your channel is in addition to the technical know how, you guys just seem to be having a grand old time! This video perfectly encapsulates that.
Also, driftwood crawling looks kind of like rock crawling with less vehicular damage. It should be more of a thing!
Thanks for that comment and I totally agree that drift wood crawling should be more of a thing! It is definitely a fun way to see what your rig can do!
Super informative video. Love being able to see all these different modes of traction control put to the test and see how they differ. Really appreciate you taking the time to put this video together. Thanks for sharing!
Big thanks for that comment! You haven't put out a video in a while. Do you have something coming out in the near future?
@@OverlandPNW I have a few videos in the works, along with some major changes coming to the channel that will aid with our adventuring!
@@VegaVenturing looking forward to seeing the new changes!
Another Master Class! Great video.
Thanks for the kind comment!
@@OverlandPNW He was referring to me brother :)
Tons of good information here. I love watching the hydraulic jack in use. Way better than the scary but effective farm jack. Awesome video.
Yeah that hydraulic jack is a nice tool. Thanks for the comment!
Just a great video! Thanks for going to the trouble to set up that comparison. Nice to see the difference side-by-side.
Thanks! It was a fun day in the sand. Thanks for always taking the time to leave a comment!
@@OverlandPNW, recognition is well deserved. The content you are producing and its format are both uncommonly useful and a bit rare. It’s also a lot of work. It’s a bonus you guys play in the same wildernesses I do. I hope you keep at it.
I’ll just say everything is better with lockers 😎
So true, everything is better with lockers! I should have used that as the video title ha ha!
@@OverlandPNW 👊🏻
Even Pizza!!! 😂
@@TJackSurvival and shrimp sandwich and shrimp soup 👊🏻😁
So true.
Seems you lean towards lockers as a preference. Having all the choices on your rig, you certainly can speak from a unique perspective. As you say however, every situation is different. Styles of driving and terrain usually are the deciding factors. What I think was a big take away here for people is the fact that you stated the integrated traction aids on the TRD vehicles are generally only good for short term use. For pro-long use, lockers are a better solution. I agree. IF one is going to be sustaining long periods of clawing through obstacles, such as boulders, lockers for sure. The majority of the population that OR are NOT in sustained need of a traction aid. Which is probably why Toyota does not feel lockers are really necessary since their traction aids will suffice. What do you think about the NEW Trail hunter? Would you like to see the next 4R TRD-OR come with a DC sway bar? Or is the KDSS more than adequate?
Well said and I agree. The other misunderstood concept about A-Trac and MTS is that people often think that once they are engaged, they are always working for them. A-Trac auto-deactivates at about 4 mph and MTS auto deactivates at about 7 mph. If you exceed those speeds and then slow back down, they will come back on line. Toyota does not want brakes suddenly applying at speeds higher than that. That said, they are absolutely spectacular systems for what they are. I have not done a deep dive into the new Trail Hunter but from the glimpses of info I have had of it, there seems to be a lot of impressive features. I'd love to see a DC sway bar on the next 4R!!
W W, I rarely agree with my brother, however, in this case we align. Your comments are spot on as well. As for me I WOULD LOVE, LOVE, LOVE a DC sway bar.
@@OverlandPNW Not sure the DC sway bar is a game changer when a 4R has the KDSS already installed. I look forward to seeing a build like yours with it installed. Only thing missing then I suppose would be hover mode where the vehicle floats above the obstacle if stuck. 🤣
First, I got to say, I love your videos, they are educational and very entertaining. I own a 2020 TRD Pro and although I lived in California for 30 years, I moved to Georgia and the off roading landscape is not the same...
That 2020 TRD Pro is as good as it gets! Yeah, moving can really be challenging especially when it comes to finding good off-roading. hope you can find some good trails!
That was a ton of good information! Thanks a lot for sharing your experience and knowledge.
Another fun video to watch and learn from. Hope to run across you fellas at some point. I’m in Kitsap County WA and spend much of my Offroad time in the Olympics.
There is no one answer that fits every situation - well said!
Thanks and thanks for watching!
It would have been helpful to see the actual settings on the controls as you used them since there are several options. The dog technical advisor was essential. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Good points. There are a lot of variables people think in the forums that everyone's the same, just like rtt and ground tent debate lol
So true! It is all about learning what your particular vehicle will do in any given situation. Thanks for the comment! You are so close to 1K subs, nice!
@@OverlandPNW Yea not really active man so don't really care. As long as I keep finding channels like yours I'm golden 👌
Thank you for all this info... very helpful and interesting. I run Toyota Tacoma offroad 2019 ( with Crawl Control)
Thanks! I watched your walk around video. Very nice Tacoma build!
@@OverlandPNW thank you
Great video showing how the different traction types work. I think I heard it mentioned that tires are definitely a factor. I noticed both rigs are on BFG K02s. These tires nor A/T in general are the best tires for sand, and I'm sure you know this and probably didn't want to spend money on tires just for this evaluation. You have the traction devices, but the tires are the limiting factor in that full M/Ts work best here. You guys did a really good job comparing the various traction control methods. The video was well done. 👍
That's a great observation about tire choice in the sand. There are some spectacular sand-specific tires choices. I'd love to have the budget to have different sets of tires for different terrain types. That being said, you have actually tapped into a long standing debate about whether All-Terrain or Mud-Terrain tires are better in the sand. If you Google "Are all terrain tires better than mud terrain tires in the sand" you will get a bunch of articles on this topic. With regard to sand, the conventional wisdom seems to be leaning toward the idea that all terrain tires are better in the sand. Here is why: Sand is a tricky landscape to work with. Mud tires tend to be more aggressive, especially if they have larger tread designs and deeper voids. This might have a habit of digging you down into the ground in sandy environments instead of shooting you forward. In sandy situations, an all-terrain tire might be the better way to go. It’s just because they have tighter treads which will help with grip, flotation and momentum. The BF Goodrich K02 All Terrain tire has 10 consecutive Dakar victories after all. That’s not to say that a mud-terrain tire wouldn’t do well on a beach or in the desert, but it might not be the best fit if you are primarily driving on this type of terrain. It all depends, if you are driving a sand rail, by all means use a paddle tire or a mud tire and send a rooster tail of sand behind you as you rocket across the sand. Please understand, I am not disagreeing with you. Just the opposite. I think tire choice in the sand is a great observation. It comes down to this: there is probably no one correct answer that fits all vehicle types, sand conditions, driver experience, etc. It is up to each driver to decide what tire works best for his/her vehicle and the terrain conditions. I love talking about this stuff and learn something new every time a great comment like this is posted. I also freely admit I have never tried mud terrain tires in the sand. So, I do no have that experience to speak from. Anyway, great comment and thanks and again for the great observation.
@@OverlandPNW I have seen, the articles, YT, and conversations within my circle about this as well. I digress a little in that I think it may depend more on how the M/T is designed, the same as with an A/T. There are so many nuances regarding traction control types, technique, tire choice, driver, and the list goes on lol. Anyway, great video, I enjoyed it!
@@terrarecon Great point. Sounds like you have more experience with M/T tires in the sand than I do. So, I'll defer to you. I'd like to give them a try some day!
Another great informative video my friend. Well done.
That was pretty cool. Thanks for the video
Thanks!
Mate another great video full of very valuable information
Cheers from 🇦🇺
Out There Touring
Thanks and I enjoyed your steak and potato bake video 👍
As always top notch explanations, proper video representation of the situations being discussed! Keep up the good work dude! Hopefully we cross paths to wheel some! 🙌🏻
Thanks! I just watched your walk around video. Great build!
@@OverlandPNW it’s an awesome rock lander, been doing some stuff for Louie and definitely it’s top notch. Will be doing a walk around of another friend with a top level overland Tacoma. Thanks for the support 🙌🏻
Nothing replaces lockers. I tried it with the Bronco in Moab, using the traction control to see how far it would go. I would then only add the rear locker when it didn’t have the capability without it. Then there was one climb that wouldn’t happen without the addition of the rear.
Totally agree.
Thank you professor! Great thoughtful information as always.
My pleasure!
Yeah totally agree
Cheers
Craig🇦🇺
Out There Touring
Thanks and cheers!
Great videos. Thank you just got a mint 2011 Trail Edition T4R and this really helped me understand all the gadgets this thing came with. Gave it a shakedown on some medium trails and obstacles and it all worked amazing. Look forward to next adventure because I’ll know what to use when now!
Can you share what tire sizes you guys have in this video? I want to upgrade from the BFG Rugged trails to K02s as that’s what I ran on my 2nd gen and they were best tires ever. No issues and never had to even drop pressure in deep soft Hawaii sand.
Currently on 265/70r17 but want to bump up to a small 33. Running a Bilstein level kit. 5160s rear and 6112 in front. Appears to have plenty clearance for a bigger tire
With our lifts, which are about 3", the sweet spot in tire size is 285/75R17. We've tried 315/70R17 and they are a little too big. We run K02s as well. Cheers!
Coming from abu dhabi, there's no better friend than a friend with another 4x4. And snatch strap.
The most important factor for success in bottomless talcum powder sand is low psi. I'm talking 5 psi or less. If you're already there and can't get out yourself, diff lockers probably won't do jack squat, unless you're waving at someone, and even then it's hit and miss. They can only help.
The best and most dependable solution is always your convoy, as you never, ever go alone into the desert.
Tl;dr: lockers over a-trac/crawl, and buddy over anything.
Great advice!
Very well done demo. Thank you for the information!
Thanks for the comment!
Great video!
Lots of info.
I only have rear lockers on the 2022 4runner (plus all the other Toyota OR tech). I've yet to be unable to recover myself, but I'm really careful with my lines.
I'd like to know the pros/cons with getting front lockers on a IFS system.
I know nothing about that.
really good comparison, and great beach location too
Thanks a lot! Your Astoria video was great!
Thank you from KSA.
Thank you too!
Another great video mate. I don't currently have lockers and TC has done the job, but I do prefer lockers. Cheers Steve
Thanks! That campsite on Fraser Island looked amazing!
Great video and I learned a lot as always! Thank you!
Thanks! I've been waiting for you to post a High Desert Overland video. Is one coming?
@@OverlandPNW yep I'm almost done with it I'm thinking next week sometime.
Very cool video. Great info too!
Thanks! Those were some crazy mud holes you went through in your last video!
Good video i like lockers but i dont have any other option in the 79 series. Well done mate looks like you boys had some killer fun
I like lockers as well. They are my go to.
I'm jonesing to have a day like this (stuck or not!). I think we will be in your hood in about 4 weeks.
Oh cool. Are you guys heading to the Overland Expo PNW in Redmond, Oregon?
@@OverlandPNW We are not hitting the Expo (have plans for the one here in CO), this is more of a pleasure cruise than an overlanding trip. Starting off around Morro Bay and then heading north. Apparently camping at a few wineries and hopefully a beach or two.
My preference is a traction control system (atrac, crawl control, terrain response) for sand driving. If you have to turn sharply, you will dig with lockers. Lockers also will wear your shafts and drivetrain out faster with constant binding. It's also really nice to not have to constantly lock and unlock. I know my TC system is different than most, but it doesn't allow for much wheel spin.
Good points! I did not mention it in the video but I never leave lockers on full time while in the sand. There's no point to it. I just engage them situationally. I'm not familiar with the Land Rover traction control system but I'm sure it is a good one. The Toyota A-Trac only works in 4WD Low and only up to about 4 mph. Then it auto deactivates. The MTS system has a 4WD high setting but it auto deactivates at about 7 mph. Even within those parameters, both the A-Trac and MTS systems seem to work really well in the sand. From your videos, your Land Rover has no problems in the sand!
@OverlandPNW The good thing about the P38 system is it works at all speeds, high or low range. It really saves your diff from sudden changes of low to high traction situations.
Great video. I never think to use lockers in sand with my ORP. I will say, I really miss not having a center diff lock like my previous Gen 4 had. It was absolutely unstoppable in whoops and large dunes alike. Silver lake is on my calendar in a week, and I’m really hoping to test it out with my 22 ORP, after having a built to the gills 15 OR. The capabilities of these in stock form are unbelievable. The TCS on these vehicles is very confidence inspiring and leaves little real world common need to throw the catalog at them if they’re wheeled occasionally vs. recreationally.
@@coltonwaggoner5397 So true that the ORP capabilities now are truly insane. We are in agreement on that and at the end of the video I state that you do not need lockers in the sand. Having said that (not talking about just sand now, but rather all off-roading) I hear ya about missing that center diff lock!!
Yes I agree going from open diff to Locker back and forth seems annoying when I watch something go up a hill and I'm thinking if you only had quality traction control you wouldn't be spinning and then having to lock up. I drive a disco 2 in excellent condition with traction control, CDL lifted on 33s. Now I admit I would like a rear Locker someday just as a third option because I'm down in Southern Arizona and some really steep crawler type trails where the traction control even allowing for just the slightest spinning and grab makes you want to flip backwards sometimes but I suppose it's because I've become accustomed to taking my disco on stuff fit Jeep rubicon's on 33 or greater go on so that's pretty good though considering it's a 20 year old vehicle. I love the low range manual mode selection. I'm all about 3rd and 2nd gear. Crazy a lot of modern vehicles start to adopt systems like Land Rover had 20 years ago and even the newer kind aren't nearly as good. I might not even go rear Locker but perhaps Eaton truetrac. I know when you raised a wheel it's pretty much the same with traction control helping but it will help traction control not have to work as often for uneven surfaces were both wheels are touching
Great video! Well done
Thanks! Love the survival content on your channel!
@@OverlandPNW Appreciate that. I also make content on Survival Dispatch. If you ever want to make videos in Utah hit me up.
Really like the tips! Love the hydraulic jack and using it hooked up to your rim. Great idea! Who makes that jack? Thanks! :-)
Thanks! That jack is made by ARB.
@@OverlandPNW That is the same brand we purchased for our air compressor.
Excellent
Thanks!
I’ve heard good things about the Eaton but I’ve never owned one. If you get one, I’d be interested in your thoughts on it.
Love these types of videos! What beach is this? We are looking to play in the sand at some point as well but are somewhat limited in our beach selection here in AZ😁
Thanks! It is a great beach up here in the PNW. If you head up north looking for beaches, let me know in a DM.
Another great share 👌🏼
Thank you 👍
here is the mentality I see a lot: Everything is better with lockers! Well, yes and no. Lockers are useful in certain situations and should be used sparingly. they are great for self recovery when you got stuck with open diffs. Get stuck with lockers and you're in a lot deeper than you ought to be. plus they damage tracks often. So it's sense and sensibility, use lockers wisely and as a last resort in most cases. picking the correct line makes you a better driver. Things like the crawl control are good to have as will get you out of sand, you can produce a similar effect with an auto and using the brakes to add resistance, it's not as technical, but works none-the-less. Knowledge trumps lockers! 😀
The vehicle is just a tool. The driver is the one that gets the job done.
My 4R only has an A-trac and DAC. Is that sufficient?
A-Trac and DAC are great if you are not doing advanced trails all day long. The break actuators will overheat and the system will automatically cancel itself if you use it for extended periods of time. A-Trac is designed to get you unstuck, to get you going from a dead stop, or to get you over a short obstacle. It is not intended for prolonged use. We have had A-Trac self-cancel due to overheating during some of our testing. It is a great system and will handle impressive obstacles. It is just a short-term tool.
K294 1FZ owner here.
Lockers all day long.
Anything else is chromed plastic.
Notable is the difference in lockers and Atrac every time I've done the sand and several desert trip lockers work and the correct tyre pressures, just one question, what were your tire pressures at the time? Great video
For tire pressure, we run 10 psi in the sand. That seems to work well with our wheel/tire combination. I will always prefer lockers but I like to tinker around with A-trac and test it out to see what it can do.
"I was doing a skid plate test" is a GREAT line!
I assume you have an ARB front air locker, and is your rear still the factory e-locker?
Yes, you are correct! I have an ARB front air locker and the rear is still the factory e-locker. But, now that I have used the ARB air locker for about 2 years, I wish I had replaced the rear e-locker with an ARB air locker as well back when I had the diffs open to re-gear.
Need a jeep with the Jeeps off road cruise control comparison!!
So true! A comparison with a jeep would make a cool video 😎 !
Lockers...period !
Can't argue with that.
I have both. :-)
My 2013 trail manual says the rear locker shall operate in muddy road and under 8km/hr. Need to avoid tire spinning condition. May I know whether in such beach sand condition, it’s still appropriate to use factory rear locker? I love to run on beach with certain speed to maintain momentum. Just curious whether I shall use multi terrain system sand mode or rear locker?😅
There are a couple of things to consider. You are correct that you should not exceed about 8km/hr with the rear locker engaged. And, of course, the rear locker only works in 4WD low. I usually do not use a locker as a full-time application. I only turn it on when I need it and then I turn it off. Multi-Terrain Select sand mode will work in both 4WD low and 4WD high but it also has a speed limiter. It will automatically go off line if you exceed about 11km/hr but will come back on line if you slow down below that speed. I tend to think of the Multi-Terrain Select system as something to use to get through a longer obstacle but not something to leave on. We have had the break actuators overheat and deactivate the system during testing. So, for me, both lockers and Multi-Terrain Select are systems that I turn on as needed and then turn off. On the beach, I usually just go with normal 4W drive and like you, maintain momentum. When circumstances dictate, I will choose between the locker or MTS. A lot of it comes down to driver preference. I hope that helps.
@@OverlandPNW appreciate for the comment. Learn a lot!! Gonna keep on watching your channel and learn more and more. Thanks.
So light vehicles are better on sand? And why would you be out there in heavy 4Runners, just playing? Is a Subaru Forester better in sand?
how should we wash the truck after driving on beach?
I have a spot where I can drive through a fresh water stream. That helps a lot. But make sure and thoroughly clean the vehicle especially the entire under carriage and all drivetrain, wheel, brake, motor components. Make sure you clean your wheels, especially aftermarket, chrome or polished/brushed aluminum. There are a lot of good TH-cam videos on this topic are worth checking out.
What about just using the rear locker to get out ? Stock 4Runner off road editions only have rear locker right ?
You are correct. Stock 4Runner off-road editions only have rear lockers. On this driftwood obstacle (at about 11:58), when I engaged lockers the sequence I used was front locker first, then rear locker. You are right, a good test would have been to try just rear locker!
Where can you go that this is allowed? Most coastlines I've been on are private or protected.
You should be able to Google search for beach access in areas near you.
Fun and Educational, I am planning to buy a 4runner, tell me SR5 and update it or TRD Pro ?,
Does SR5 come equiped with Crawl control ?
The SR5 does not have Crawl Control. It only has A-Trac and part-time 4WD. It does not have Multi-Terrain Select and it does not have a locking rear differential. A TRD Pro is a good choice if you want something off-the shelf ready to go without a lot of modifications. If you plan on doing a lift, big tires, etc....you might consider a TRD Off-Road.
@@OverlandPNW Thank you for the precise information, does TRD Off-Road has all the capabilities of TRD-Pro?
Nice video. What size tires are you guys running?
Thanks! My tires (white 4Runner) are 315/70R17. So, they are 34.36" tall and 12.4" wide. Steve (Silver 4Runner) is running 285/75R17. So, his are 33.83" tall and 11.22" wide.
@@OverlandPNW Thank you for the quick reply. I spent a fair amount of time watching your videos trying to catch a glimpse of the tire size with no luck. You guys make great videos with solid content. I look forward to many more. Be safe and thanks again.
What suspension are you running on the lunar rock with the rigd spare tire rig? I have roughly the same set up but with stock suspension. Had it for several months now and it's starting to squat in the rear.
That is my brother's rig. His suspension is Ironman foamcell pro stage 3, 3” front, 2” rear
Thanks for responding!!
How much did it cost to get your lock configuration with 4 runner included?
I'm not sure how much lockers cost these days. I got mine about 2 years ago. Most 4x4 shops could give you an idea.
Howcome the tires look all squishy when they crawl?
The tires look squishy because we let most of the air out of them. This give you more traction in the sand.
Thank you for the reply. I'm learning from you guys so I know what to expect when I get my 4runner. ^_^
How do I know if my 5th gen 4runner came with lockers?
If it is an SR5 or TRD Sport, you do not have a locker. If it is a TRD Off-Road or TRD Pro, you do have a locker.
@@OverlandPNW got it, thanks I’m new to this and your video was a tremendous help! How do I activate the locker again?
@@gerardomata.costarica Bring your vehicle to a complete stop, put it into 4WD Low, press the rear diff lock button (you will see a red blinking light on your dash), gently depress the accelerator pedal so that the vehicle moves forward very slowly. When the red blinking light stops blinking and becomes a steady red, the locker is engaged. This should take about 1/2 to 1 rotation of the wheel. You should not exceed 5 mph with the locker engaged.
@@OverlandPNW got it!!
Do 4runners offer true front lockers from the factory?
No, unfortunately 4Runners do not have true front lockers from the factory. Sure wish they did.
@@OverlandPNW Eaton makes an electric locker for the front of the 4Runner. Might buy one one of these days.
I have crawl control and I can tell you. It does not work very good in the snow and i have a jeep with ARB's and they don't work very well in the snow and i drove off road for a living got to have the right tires to even stand a chance.
It is all about the right tires, that's for sure!
My Tundra has neither :(
Dang! But I think Tundra comes with A-Trac, right? Regardless...they are great trucks!
I just drive around things in the open I would get stuck on...
Can't argue with that approach!
I LOCK IT! I LOCK it a lot! 😂
👍
You are not helping my finances. I just call a shop and waiting for a return call from the "lockers expert" who is in a call with another customer. thinking f trying Harrop E-locker in front for my TRD Pro. Its almost stock. This would be just in case type of thing. Will see..
I know what you mean. I watch other channels and have the same problem with my finances ha ha!
SPOT ON! Jon doesn't help me financially and I don't help him, but that's what being a good brother is all about, right???
@@aired-downoverland9239 you 2 are amazing combo. For some reason I did not get the call from the shop I called. Maybe the front desk got my number wrong. May be they are not interested for 4Runners with stock gears. Not sure. Will try another day to call or stop by and see.
Lockers are way better sorry but crawl control is a joke. Didn’t work for my situation on my 3rd gen
Lockers are my go to as well.