This EQ CRUSHES FabFilter?!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 เม.ย. 2023
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Love this eq. I've owned it for about 4 months and it's amazing
Thanks for this. This one of those videos I’ll probably watch several times
I’ve been using this it came out. And, I find myself using more and more. Great video.
Pronounced "Kear-hoff" ☺️
And yeah it's amazing. I have a few EQs I use for 'color' but as just an EQ to grab w/ all the options this is 100% my pick. Just need them to model API curves now 😈
Waiting on TBTech to roll out a multi-model compressor, too. Would love to reduce my processing to just 2 plugins.
I've been using the Kirchhoff for the last year. It's awesome.
I love it!
@@ColtCapperruneAfter a couple of months, are you still a Pro-Q user or have you switched completely to Kirchhoff ?
I've got the complete bundle released in 2022, very happy with the results in my mixes since then!
The TDR Nova has similar features to the Kirchhoff in relation to the dynamic eq and I use it mainly for that purpose.
LOVE The TDR Nova!!
Nova is also a parallel EQ. It’s a subtle difference, but I enjoy it.
I just picked this up. Definitely time to review this on my channel. Thanks for the great review, as always!
I was skeptical with your announcement. But you are right, the Kirchhoff sounds much better in these extrem settings. I am convinced.
Amazing EQ!!! is my go-to in transparent EQ when I mix and mastering. Totally recomended
welcome on to the Kirchhoff train my friend!!!!
and its in the plugin alliance subscription!!!!
Try setting the Kirchhoff EQ to tight mode in the settings and comparing to FF again, I would love to see that. These little things actually make a difference.
According to me, neither is better or worse in sonic quality. Experiment in PluginDoctor shows that the Q curve is a bit different for the same number. Q of 1 in Kirchhoff EQ corresponds to Q of ~1.4 in Pro-Q3. In my opinion, if Q curve is matched, they both sound the same (using the basic settings - not speaking for the additional features). For me this is the reason for the audible differences.
That'd make sense
Nope. An eq is not just one filter, the routing does a world of difference inside the plugin. Fabfilter doesn't do parallel (all filters are chained), and there are other factors in coding which make up the sound of a plugin. No matter how "clean" they say it is, clean doesn't exist, there's always a sound.
While I have not tested the Q curves, regardless of the settings, shelf, or Bell, or what Q the band was set at. I preferred the sound of the Kirchhoff 100% of the time. There’s also something to be said, for the speed of not having to change the queue to get equal results (if they are, in fact, equal ). Certainly, to each their own. Thanks for watching!
@@ColtCapperrune Okee. “Something to be said for the speed of not having to change the Q factor?” You preferred Kirchhoff because it didn’t show you resonances like FF did. Think about that for a moment. Wouldn’t you want a clean clinical eq to show you resonances in program material as you boost? Flip that sentence and now it’s the speed of not having to change the Q factor in pro q3 to hear immediate resonances in program material where as in Kirchhoff one evidently doesn’t notice it unless you adjust the q to match pro q. Cheers!
I'm wondering if what I'm hearing isn't slightly better phase coherence in the Kirchoff EQ. Most of the times things sound mysteriously but noticably more or less pleasant to me it comes down to that.
The bottom line for me is now I know that the Kirchoff is an EQ I can use for swooping 10+ dB adjustments with less negative impact than the Pro-Q, in addition to all its really useful features.
I was waiting for my PA voucher to buy the Kirchhoff, then realized it was already in my plugin bundle. lmao. it's such a great EQ
Sounds like Christmas morning! Lol
Sorry dude I generally enjoy and appreciate your content but after watching Dan Worrall's recent video comparing these two EQs with a simple null test I'm inclined to call BS here. It seems the difference you're hearing is because the Q values are actually different, but when set the same they null near perfectly. It's also interesting that you're hearing a narrower band width as more "natural" too. And the deceptively named "analog" mode is just a minimum phase mode and doesn't add some kind of magic "analog" secret sauce. There are some features in the Kirchhoff that I would like to see on the Q3. Like a simple way to select a more analog style curve and a way to add more analog style saturation. But, I know fabfilter will do it better when they do and the Kirchhoff just seems unnecessarily cluttered with every possible bell and whistle.
Finally someone making sense in this comment section
This EQ is KILLER!!!!!
Yay! I have a plug-in alliance subscription. Thanks for lmk!!!!!🎉
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for making me aware of this plugin! I downloaded it today in my PA subscription and did a similar comparison except in a rhythm section of a song I'm currently working on. Same eq settings as the Pro Q 3 and it was a marked difference in how much tighter and more present things were. And the fact you can add in Neve, SSL and API curve flavors to the eq bands is pretty damn cool (I really liked high and low passing with the SSL E while keeping everything else neutral). The dynamic eq was great too in having actual control over the compression/expansion. Good call on the analog setting btw, it was the most pleasing to my ears as well. Awesome heads up man!
It's important to note that the "same settings" in both plugins aren't showing the "same q factors". A 1 to 1 match is this:
Kirchhoff at 1q is FF at 1.4q. / Kirchhoff at .7q is FF at 1q.
Let us know if you notice a "marked difference" when the q factor is actually equal. :) Cheers.
@ChrisCatero
Yes, I like putting a "250" or "Vintage Tube" Low shelf, a Neve bell node at about 3.5k, an SSL E high shelf, and a "Blue" (Maag) high shelf, with just a 1db boost . . . The Blue brings in that Maag 40k whistle tone . . . What a fun eq !
(-;
Switched from Fabfilter EQ to Kirchoff last year and never looked back. Sat down and gave it a good test sonically and it sounds so much better that fabfilter.. plus all the extra features is a no brainer.
The only downside is, it’s double the price. But definitely sounds better, and a great one and done option for people.
@@ColtCapperrune It goes on sale frequently thankfully, including 99 right now.
Perfect timing for me!!
as soon as you said something is better than fabfilter i knew exactly which plugin you were talking about. i have it in the mega bundle, but i really gotta play with it and experience it for myself.
That’s crazy. I was thinking about doing the same comparison yesterday 😭 lol
I don't own the pro q3 but do own the kirchhof and it's a beast of a plugin. I love what it can do
There's a lot of people out there, like me, that bought this plugin when 3body Tech were selling it themselves, way before PA came along and took over distribution. That army of people have been raving about it for a long time.
Kirchhoff is definitely my new go to but there is just something about the way bands move in Pro Q3 that I’ll miss
2:56 this is the snare of my dreams
Hmmm. You know, I always appreciated that anything I boosted with waves F6 sounded nasty, so that way I knew what I needed to cut! But the Fabfilter never gave me the nastiness - had softer edges or something. And so I think this is why I need both. The fab makes more stealthful changes. But it doesn’t add any character.
The kirchhoff the best by far!
It’s so good!
Kirchhoff is awesome, hands down!!!
Yep sounds much better but honestly I use pro q3 for cutting and using multi band eq/compression with the side chain I find the fab filter very transparent almost like a SSL or focus rite console. Im boosting with parallels and or channel strips .
I'm going to be honest...I never liked boosting with Pro Q 3. After switching to Kirchhoff a few months ago, my suspicions were confirmed. My go to now!
I was lucky enough to get this at $25 using a $75 voucher someone had gifted me. This EQ is just amazing. It's my go to over fab filter for any kind of transparent EQing needed. I love it. It may be a bit rough around the edges, but, it's worth it.
say what ? 25 dollars , damn the price now is 150 wtf , where do i get that discount
Yes It helps me a lot thank you
I have been using this EQ since PA picked up their plugin. My favorite part about the plugin is that you can hear a 1db boost/cut. It doesn't take a lot for this plugin to do what you need it to do. Ive been less heavy handed with with EQ-ing.
Completely agree!
I agree with your opionions. I switched once Plugin Alliance released it last year, really good EQ to me and I will be sticking with the Kirchhoff until further notice :)
I just found there's a 60 fps option under the GUI settings that helps smooth things out a great deal, I thought I'd share!
Night and Day sonics. Thanks Colt
Hey Colt, are those De Lisle amp/cab switchers in the background? if so, what do you think of them?
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Great video as always, Colt!
I have a question non related to the video: do you consider Audio-Technica ath-m50x a good choice to be used for mastering? I don't have a place able to receive treatment now, so I'll need to use headphones instead of a monitor. Thanks
Thanks! I think the M 50 strength comes in tracking, and the fact that every single studio has a pair. For mastering, I would use something much more high end. Love, my Focal clear MG pro. They are an excellent option for mastering. But really, I would look at a high end, like the most money you can possibly spend, open back headphone for mastering. Hope that helps!
when this EQ first became available on PluginAlliance I thought it was just because it was new that it sounded “better”, the placebo effect of new product… I’m glad to hear another engineer point out that it does in fact sound better than Fab!
It doesn't. The Q factor is different.
Opinions on sonic quality differences are bunk, Dan Worralls video proves that, do a null test and see. very cool plug-in and the dynamic section is very cool, but definitely not better than proQ3 just different.
Let’s snart with the stare drum 👀 🤓
Thanks for this review. Defo an interesting sound.
The only thing that I would like to know, is if it has matching capibilities- Absolutly agree, that it sound better, but for example for shaping a sound to be as close to one previously recorded is something that the fabfilter really is amazing at (for example for Post production)
Plugin Alliance is great. I have a bunch of their stuff. The only ones I don't care for are the amp sims but I only have one. I like Neural if I have to use a sim
yeah Colt what i thought also had the fab pro3 and switched and still havent found all this does YET!
I’ve used Plugin Alliance’s subscription service for a number of years now as it’s relatively cheap and the amount of plugs you get for it is ALOT. That said - Plugin Alliance does sales all the time, so if subscription isn’t your cup of tea, chances are you can get this EQ for much cheaper than what I’ve ever seen fab filter go on sale for.
Great point! I’m always waiting for their sales to scoop up new plug-ins
If you want to buy the plugin without a subscription they charge $150 *OVER* what you can get this plugin for elsewhere though!
Been using it over the Fabfilter for a while. The plugin Alliance stuff tends to beat everything else once you dig in
PA has been doing some flash sales, and If you are a PA subscriber you can sometimes get emails with extra bonus deals, and you have monthly vouchers if you pay for other stuff that they sometimes get you, so it *might* be possible to get quite a lower price on the KO EQ.
any recommendations for a good limiter? is there similar case with fab Limiter and if we can try some other limiter as well which gives similar results as this eq has given? thanks
this was dope..
What about resource performance? I think fabfilter is much lighter on CPU use. Set pro Q to natural phase and the ringiness reduces
what is the name of that song you are playing the vocals from? i need that song. can it be streamed? and if so, where? thanks
Thanks Colt! Appreciate your shares. I absolutely love the Kirchhoff EQ, however I do really miss the frozen spectrum grab (of notable frequencies) that FF does so well. Lastly, I miss the modern and pleasant GUI of FF. If they can do an update to include that frozen spectrum grab of notable frequencies I’d never look back. 😅 The character EQ’s are simply amazing 🤩
Kirchhoff Does have the frozen spectrum grab ! . . . Just click on the Hand Icon at the top of the GUI . . . It has it !
(-;
@@bakharandi What! Somehow I overlooked this feature. Thank so much for letting me know! Cheers
A lot features are being held back on pro q3 to not make pro MB obsolete. I’m already used to Fabfilter workflow so I’m staying with them.
Spectre from Wavesfactory is one of my favorites, EQ meets saturation, great sound, very efficient.
I aim in awe for the mix mode. I have no idea what is happening code/math wise in the background there. My favourite eq plugin. I have yet scratched the surface of its dynamic capabilities.
"Mix" mode gives linear phase in the high end, and something different in the low end, as far as phase.
Kirchhoff is like Rocket Science . . . They are really breaking new ground and moving things forward..
@@bakharandi i know that there is linear phase and regular EQ blended, but how they achieve it, I am puzzled.
Very nice good comparison.
Appreciate it!
How does compare to the old Sonnox EQ?
Hello Colt what about using the pro q 3 in natural phase ? Thanks for your video
Not to be nit picky with these comparisons, but are they both in the same phase mode? I’ve never tried any of the ProQ products because, as a Logic user, the built in Channel EQ and Linear Phase EQ seem to accomplish the same things that ProQ does (at least for what I need) aside from the dynamic EQ options.
Bro your Killing Me! 2 days before you put out this video I used a discount coupon for 2 plugins of my choice. I picked up Bax and Mag. I was on the fence with Bax and could easily have gotten this.
Currently it's like $225, and I can't go there. But if I can find it for around $30-50...I would have to grab it then!
F***! I literally not two hours ago, finally bought Pro-Q3. OMFG, That reso sweep was a crazy difference.. one question. did you try the different modes like I saw you had on natural phase, did you try linear or no latency? Just curious if they change the results at all.
“Fear the man who has EQ’d 1000 tracks with the stock EQ, not the man who has 1000 EQ’s.”
Q3 is a GREAT plugin, feel no regrets. You can achieve anything one EQ does with the other. These are clean digital EQs, no implicit “character” is in either one. The only tangible difference is the workflow.
I appreciate these kinds of videos, but aching over the minutia between Q3 vs Kirchhoff is the definition of diminishing returns. Unless your career depends on these small returns (like Colt), make music with whatever you have!
Crazy that you can even hear the difference in phone speakers and after TH-cam compression
watching this,, when you did vocals, you had a boost on the stock eq on the track with the fabfilter. dunno if you missed that
The Kirckoff high end treble is way more transient and less harsh. You should try it.
Just remember before you rush out and buy this plug-in, FF is a great EQ that's widely used and respected, and this one video doesn't make it any less capable. Also, every engineer has their own preferences--doesn't make one better or worse just preferred to their ears. Everyone's ears are different. Mixers are different. It's all opinion and preferences. Just listen to several different albums and you'll realize it's all subjective. Once you realize there's no objective rules, you'll mix better because then you will use your ears and do what sounds good to you and refine and build from there!
It just sounds better . For me as a mix engineer it's really important
I love this eq; however, I've never used the Fabfilter pro q3 (or any Fabfilter products on a constant/consistent basis). The only thing I wish Kirchoff had is the eq match---but I don't see or hear people talk about it (I if I need to eq match for whatever reason, I use Ozone's). Love that it's in PA subscription (in my opinion the only plugin subscription plan that's worth it for me). Now to finishing the video lol
You need to get over to the professional-grade mastering EQ and compressors they have. PQ and Oven..chef's kiss...not for the base mixer guy tho... Much better.... stock plugins like waves and fabfilter...boooooring ...
@@levondarratt787 love The Oven and PQ…I was using elysia museq for a while, tried PQ and it quickly became one of my favorites 😊
Believe it or not i vile hear the difference though my little old iPhone speaker
About the comparison of the resonances that comes as a consequence of the phase shift - are you sure that the "natural phase" in the Fabfilter is equal to the "minimum" in Kirchhoff?
Yo you should try the ToneBoosters Eq as well. I’ve been using it in my mixes and that thing is a beast
@ColtCapperrune thank you I texted you underneath my real name not my dj name
welcome to the Kirchoff EQ party
Definitely late to the party, but glad I’m here now!
You can resize Pro eq the exact same way, unless this is a Protools issue.
have you tried to make the comparison with the pro q3 in linear phase mode?
I have, it beats it in every mode in my opinion.
@@ColtCapperrune i used kirchhoff eq a lot too, then I went back to pro q3... too many options, in the end they make me lose focus of the mix. Also in my opinion it sounds much better than the pro q3
So was the Q-3 set to Zero Latency, Natural Phase or Linear Phase? Does the Kirchhoff have similar options? If so, how was it set?
Never mind I see it set to Natural Phase, but curious what the other two settings would sound like
The kirch can use a mix of both at the same time ... it will "seamlessly" switch between both across one instance, EQing one sound, depending on how you use the EQ and how hard you push each band (there's probably settings regarding this too, but this is it's unique way of functioning and is part of it's sales material). The way I read it is that you could have one boost applying linear phase EQ and one boost on the same instance applying ZL EQ.
Does using the Natural Phase mode in Fabfilter contribute to the resonance?
How is it on the cpu compared to fabfilter?
I don’t use either one but I also would a 12db boost to test them since if I need that much boost or cut, I should probably just retrack it with a better mic or mic placement and I only mix things I’ve recorded so I guess if retracking isn’t an option I guess this would be one way to fix an issue. I’d still probably try cutting something else competing at the same frequency, some saturation or a different eq altogether. I’ve just found big boosts like that inherently cause other problems. I did hear the difference and I know the fab filter stuff has a lot of settings so maybe one of those would mitigate that issue but I go for simpler eq’s like the modeled UAD stuff, API, Pultec, Chandler etc…
I find the Kirchhoff very useful , especially with my Live Performance audio restoration projects . . . You know . . .the ones recorded with many random factors involved.
what the heck bro!! getting that plug-in... NOW!
What when u hit the natural phasing mode in proQ? Zero Latency mode sounds kinda boxy always
man, there’s ToneBoosters’ Equalizer plugin which has 95% of features what this one has, and it‘s existed for ages. its price is ~30 usd and there are versions for both desktop OSs and mobile ones - iOS/Android.
i mean ProQ 3 is a good EQ, but not that it’s news that there are more versatile & reasonably priced options out there
Same reason I stopped using pro q two years ago. Try CRAVE EQ for some less complexity.
The Kirchoff uses a different Q standard for bell filters. A Q of 0.7 would match FF's 1.0. That would make a notable difference on large boosts :)
What about the phase settings in Q3? You have it on zero latency.
Which BAX 2020 500-Series EQ do you have? There are a few different, just curious, I'm looking into those
I have the "Extra" which is a transformer out, and GAR2520 opamps. I love it! It’s been on every vocal since I got it. That said, I haven’t compared them all side-by-side.
@@ColtCapperrune cool , thx! Yep Im looking those, DOA in and out like the APIs
Are you sure the Q and real gains are actually the same (regardless of what the settings say)? The Q looks wider on the graphic of the Q3 (if that's anything to go by?) and the boost level sounds greater. Packed with features though.
Pro Q's Q setting 1 is roughly equal width to Kirch Eq's Q setting of 1.5. There's a difference yes.
The Q value in the Kirchhoff EQ of the bell shape should be set to 0.707 to equal the width of the Q value of 1 in Pro Q3 tho.
you can hear the difference on vocals.
it seems as if the Q value on FF is larger and has a narrower band, although the values are similar or even the same.
A 1 to 1 match is this:
Kirchhoff at 1q is FF at 1.4q. / Kirchhoff at .7q is FF at 1q.
I woud love to see you do a video checking out Tone Boosters TBEqualizer4. It is an EQ similar to these in functionality but it is a faction of the price. I have been reaching for it lately instead if Kirchhoff EQ becuase it has a really cool autogain compinsation that you can toggle per band and you can add saturation to each band as well. I love turning on the saturation when I'm boosting. It also has the same mid/side splits and it can be dynamic.
Could this be because Fabfilter is on zero latency phase and not one of the other options?
The Kirchhoff has been around for close to a year!
I do hear the difference that he's talking about with the boosts. But, what sold me on the Kirchoff was the dynamic EQ settings... As a Pro-Q guy for years now, that's something that I've always said... "Why can't I control the attack and release of the dynamics???" If I wanted to do so, I'd always have to substitute the Pro-Q with the Ozone Dynamic EQ... which was kind of annoying since I don't really like Ozone's EQs.
Try using the mix filters at 4kHz instead of the minimum phase filters...it sounds even better..!!
The Kirchhoff EQ sounded cleaner! I would like to hear it compared to the Ozone EQ on the master track, maybe I will try the demo version.
Cleaner because...
First we need to understand that the "same settings" in both plugins aren't showing the "same q factors". A 1 to 1 match is this:
Kirchhoff at 1q is FF at 1.4q. / Kirchhoff at .7q is FF at 1q.
Anything that starts tighter is going to sound cleaner.... Right? Yep. Your ear is good. But they weren't 1:1 settings. Cheers.
I tried a null test with Pro-Q using the adjusted Q ratio recommended from the other comment and it was a very close mach.
On the other hand, I couldn't get Kirchoff to produce that same unnatural sound as the Pro-Q does since the Pro-Q character may be desirable.
What I really personally like about Kirchoff is the ability to make a minimal look for myself in the theming. I just wish I could hide the footer and the logos to make the plugin blend in as if it were my stock EQ but with all the features that come from a premium plugin. Overall I'm really excited to see what I can do with it, and try all the analogue filter circuits and mixing features like spectrum grab.
Go ahead and watch "A Totally Biased Review of the Kirchhoff EQ" by Dan Worral. A really good technical analysis of the two. He also mentions, how to perfectly Null the two EQs, by setting the propper Q value. Greetings :)
I discovered the same but with a different eq. The Sonible SmartEQ also sounds better, especially on transient material like drums. Smart eq curves sound horrible but as a static eq it´s better in comparison. Unfortunately the SmartEQ isn´t that flexible so I still use Pro-Q3 for surgical and dynamic stuff. I should try my DMG Multiplicity as well although I don´t use it for surgical stuff but it also has the ability to address dynamic and transient material separately.
I’ll check it out, thanks!
I hate the UI on Sonible SmartEq for normal eqing. Very slow workflow. For AI stuff it's faster but I don't use that.
@@huberttorzewski Yes, it can be improved a lot. Also there´s no phase switch. But speed isn´t everything so I grab it from time to time for drum tracks. Everything else is Multiplicity because it sounds better and has the ability to to address body and transient material in a dynamic way. Like SpiltEQ on steroids and better sounding.
Audio placebo is real folks!!
pro q3 is the goat,
The F6 EQ by Waves does the same, doesn’t it ?
Does it have EQ match and the fabfilter feature to visually see clashing frequencies?
No to EQ match I'm told (I don't own it), dunno about the other bit tho.
I havent tried Kirchoff, but DMG Equick had better transparency than Q3 from memory.