Ser Simon playing Ser Simon was one of the best parts of this season...him "shushing" Daemon to calm him down had me howling 😂 he was also AMAZING in "Penny Dreadful" as the fabulous Mr. Lyle ❤
If blodraven can influence changes in the past, maybe this is HotD altering the version of the future that we've seen in Game of Thrones lol. So Bloodraven hated D&D's ending too lol
That's why Bloodraven was so adamant that you can't change the past, no matter what he did, his visions showed that awful GoT ending was still happening
Thank god you’re here - just tried a different channel and I didn’t make it half way through - the garbage coming out of their mouths by trying to apply real- world logic to a fantasy show 😂 you’re an absolute legend Robert! Yes the show wasn’t great in some parts but you have decorum 🎉
The next Sheepstealer scene: Rhaena Targaryen approached Sheepstealer, determined to finally claim a dragon of her own, but just at the moment she reached out to Sheepstealer, Nettles crests a hill with a small flock of sheep. Nettles sees this silver haired stranger approaching the dragon she'd worked so hard to tame and finally claim herself. Nettles looks shocked. Even here in the middle of nowhere, some uppity, silver spooned Targaryen has come to commandeer Nettles' dragon, trying to shove her back down to the life of struggling and pain she'd always known before. In that instant a wave of fear and anger washed over Nettles. Nettles shouts "Dracarys!!!", and Rhaena Targaryen was no more. .....Or maybe Nettles crests the hill just in time to see Sheep steeler reject Rhaena and as the dragon is about to light her up, Nettles intervenes and saves Rhaena. The relationship between these two girls from different sides of the tracks develops from here.
the former sounds contrived but i think i could see the latter work???? esp with rhaena’s concerns abt her failing to claim a dragon falling on deaf ears by pretty much her entire extended family. i think it would be really interesting for rhaena to confide these vulnerabilities to nettles, who could suggest coaxing sheepstealer with food. rhaena would try this only to fail yet again and later realize that nettles has already bonded with sheepstealer off-screen unknowingly (using the same tactics). nettles would assist a dejected rhaena through the vale and back to the port so she can board the ship to pentos, when they come across grey ghost hunting for fish along the shore. now emboldened, rhaena tries to claim grey ghost (with nettles’ help) and this time succeed. obviously there’s no way this is happening though bc the gullet has to happen in the first 2 eps AT LEAST, and if they’re going by the books, sheepstealer will be joining them… and 2 eps is just not enough for nettles x rhaena friendship /claiming of GG (through food) to play out 😭 but im going to use this hc as copium for the next 2 years regardless lmao
I think introducing a random green man helps to set up the theory that his body was recovered from the gods eye by the green men and he lives out the rest of his life on the isle of faces. Daemons dead body was never recovered according to lore. aemonds was.
Re: the first question on Alicent running to Rhaenyra - all I kept thinking of is Otto telling Alicent in season 1 (paraphrased - can’t remember exact language), *”either prepare Aegon to rule, or cleave onto Rhaenyra and beg for her mercy.”* Option A didn’t work out, so all she knows to do to save herself is option B.
I would love to see as a next project of GRRM (after TWoW of course) a couple short stories about Dunk & Egg, then Fire & Blood part II, and then A Dream of Springs.
29:20 I assumed Deamon's visions weren't about a deterministic future, but rather intended to motivate Deamon specifically. Deamon saw Dany (a female Targ) to motivate him to unequivocally back Rheanyra (a female Targ) as the ruler who would protect this future hope. I don't have a set idea about the ability of the WWN to create completely novel images, but manipulating them from along the stream of time to manipulate individual watchers doesn't seem beyond its abilities.
Everyone is taking ‘Sunfyre’s dead’ literal. Aegon wouldn’t have seen Sunfyre but I’m sure has been told how bad he is. Can’t fly, etc. He probably assumes he’s going to die so really he’s saying Sunfyre is good as dead. Also being a way to surprise non book readers if they stick to the book.
HotD is changing Fire & Blood book cannon to try to connect to GoT season 6-8. Show cannon and book cannon are not the same. Everything in this show leads back to GoT night king, Bran, Arya and the dagger. Rhaynera and Alicent are declawed from Fire & Blood with very little agency. Alyn also has absorbed Nettles scenes with all the low born drama, in book not portrayed as poor and starving but with mother who is a shipwright and sailor with obvious Targaryen or Valeryon blood. And Damon’s daughter has the other part of Nettles story for taming a wild dragon. And the whole Helena thing is just supporting Bran and Bloodraven in TV show. It’s fine all the changes but need to acknowledge it’s show cannon not book cannon and is being tied back to explain and support GoT TV show arcs.
Nettles isn’t needed for the show bcuz they already have a brown skinned girl riding a dragon. That takes away from the uniqueness of Nettles. Non book readers wouldn’t understand the importance of Nettles anyway, they were just told Targ blood only can ride Targ dragons. It would be too confusing.
Was thinking about Dany’s dragon’s size… they are unique and born of magic even more so (due to being petrified, the sacrifice, and the prophecy) than the dragons in Fire and Blood. Who’s to say they don’t grow at a faster rate as well in order to meet the needs against the long night?
Is it possible that Damond could have put slashes in the tree to make it bleed and put his hand in the blood/sapp to get a vision or to communicate with the net in some way. The way he showed getting the vision in the last episode.
I'm still confused about season 2. Was it great? Was it a bit off? Didn't like most of Harrenhal, and I found the focus on future odd and a bit over explainy, the rest I think I loved. I'll work it out. 😅 A lot of epic acting, sets and episodes. Still best show on TV
i think mysaria wanted bastards on the dragons because she knows in a war of dragons, they will most likely wipe themselves out and reset the balance of power in the world… the last shot of her in the show was ominous
What is she, an anime villain now? Reset the balance of power? If anything she’d wanna protect the bastards and have the official lords and ladies wipe themselves out then they emerge after.
Is the prophecy (presented to Daemon) including Danaerys and her dragons etc simply due to him being a massive Valyrianist (not a word?) and that’s what it may take to motivate him personally to do what he needs to do for events to play out? A vision of Arya & needle might have made 0 sense to him 😅🤷🏽♂️🤣🤣
I loved every episode of this season. This is a very good show. As a book reader, I think they have made the best out of the writers and then actors strike. I wish there were two more.
While ultimately "good", season 2of HotD was a frustrating display of deeply flawed writing, plotting, and pacing. In broad strokes, much of the time here is wasted engaging in "wheel" spinning, and, in various ways, forcibly moving pieces on the board in order to get a desired payoff. It's specific sins include (but are not limited to, as an exhaustive list would be WAY to long) inconsistent and/ or dumb characterization, unneeded dialogue to explicitly explain character motivation, "clunky" scenes, scenes that frequently lack the gravitas needed to consistently entertain, and even some payoff moments that, especially upon reflection, seem underwhelming, especially when compared with the source material. But even without the contrast, there is much wasted potential in this block of episodes. The season did many things well too, of course, but the bad threatens to overtake the good. Not only is it a massive step down from season one-production values and a dragon fight don't matter that much next to everything else-but if season one had been as bad as it's sequel (and season one itself was certainly flawed too, and nowhere close to the dizzying heights of peak GoT...not that it had to be.) I would have never bothered to watch season two in the first place. I DID watch season two, however, and will press on, but I hope season three is a vast improvement because, frankly, season two is close to a plummet down into the realm of mediocrity. And no, the lack of good television elsewhere does not compel me to lower my standards, any more then it can magically erase a shows myriad problems.
I'm not betting on or getting my hopes up for Nettles, but there was a bit of cheekiness going on... when the dragon seeds were lining up for the ship voyage, you see a woman of color with large, fluffy curls in line. If you're on camera, that casting and hair/makeup doesn't happen by accident. I'm curious if it was a hint, or the director Loni Peristere was poking at book fans. I do like your ideas of how the Nettles story could be merged into Rhaena's!
I guess this series sort of destroys GOT TV canon. Bran taking the throne doesn't fullfil the song of ice and fire. The "Night King" was defeated, yes, but it didn't mention what would happen if a Stark becomes king. I guess we'll never get the last 2 books anyway, so just more contradiction.
Im not a mod for this channel but the ones it does have are just great. Some of my personal favourite mods are on this channel actually. Glad you liked the stream, and I hope you can fully charge your battery soon. ( assuming it's a lithium ion!)
Little off topic, instead of a walk thru of the 7 kingdoms, give us a well done discussion and "ah" bridged rereading of any of the text, please? Maybe a cup in, relax and just tell the story as you turn the page.
I never thought that Alicent's "mishearing" of Vicerys' deathbed words made any sense. If he was having doubts and wanted to change his mind, he would not have done it at the last moment. He would have known that this would throw the country into turmoil and Alicent knew that is not the kind of man he was. The showrunners were either showing her as a power hungry mother who was grasping at power and thrusting her unwilling child into a position they didn't want for her own sake, or they were bad writers who didn't understand how this was going to look.
Now that we have Blood Raven tied to the past like this, I wonder if Blood Raven gave Aegon the Conqueror the prophecy? Or even further I wonder if Blood Raven gave Daenys the Dreamer HER prophecy? How much is Blood Raven's fault? 🤣
@@coricori7661 You say this as if it is a fact - it is just your interpretation. Just as it is my interpretation that seeing Blood Raven looking directly out from the tree = Blood Raven looking at the past just as was said in the books. And possibly influencing the past as was shown by Bran reaching to the past and telling young Hodor to "hold the door".
The frustrating thing about Daemon's "visions" and "charater growth" is, he just becomes who he was in the books (and season one) THE WHOLE TIME. Yes, in the books, they speculate about him wanting the throne, but actually, a careful reading reveals his primary driving force is love of, and need of validation from, his family, and the idea that he would entertain seriously the notion of usurping the throne from his wife is just nonsense and a misunderstanding of the character. AND IT WENT NOWHERE! Just a giant waste of time.
@@dashriprock8596 I don’t think other not liking Aegon. She knows her son is not fit to be king. She also knows he has been severely injured, what quality of life will he have. Maybe she see this as a mercy kill.
Ser Simon playing Ser Simon was one of the best parts of this season...him "shushing" Daemon to calm him down had me howling 😂 he was also AMAZING in "Penny Dreadful" as the fabulous Mr. Lyle ❤
If blodraven can influence changes in the past, maybe this is HotD altering the version of the future that we've seen in Game of Thrones lol. So Bloodraven hated D&D's ending too lol
That's why Bloodraven was so adamant that you can't change the past, no matter what he did, his visions showed that awful GoT ending was still happening
Thank god you’re here - just tried a different channel and I didn’t make it half way through - the garbage coming out of their mouths by trying to apply real- world logic to a fantasy show 😂 you’re an absolute legend Robert! Yes the show wasn’t great in some parts but you have decorum 🎉
So true!
Whatever the fandom, IDG has a gift for thinking in terms of the setting and puts in the work.
agree...
and robert s voice is a big w in addition
We live in the Age of Garbage
The next Sheepstealer scene:
Rhaena Targaryen approached Sheepstealer, determined to finally claim a dragon of her own, but just at the moment she reached out to Sheepstealer, Nettles crests a hill with a small flock of sheep. Nettles sees this silver haired stranger approaching the dragon she'd worked so hard to tame and finally claim herself. Nettles looks shocked. Even here in the middle of nowhere, some uppity, silver spooned Targaryen has come to commandeer Nettles' dragon, trying to shove her back down to the life of struggling and pain she'd always known before. In that instant a wave of fear and anger washed over Nettles. Nettles shouts "Dracarys!!!", and Rhaena Targaryen was no more.
.....Or maybe Nettles crests the hill just in time to see Sheep steeler reject Rhaena and as the dragon is about to light her up, Nettles intervenes and saves Rhaena. The relationship between these two girls from different sides of the tracks develops from here.
This would be AMAZING. Which mean they definitely won't do it.
the former sounds contrived but i think i could see the latter work???? esp with rhaena’s concerns abt her failing to claim a dragon falling on deaf ears by pretty much her entire extended family. i think it would be really interesting for rhaena to confide these vulnerabilities to nettles, who could suggest coaxing sheepstealer with food. rhaena would try this only to fail yet again and later realize that nettles has already bonded with sheepstealer off-screen unknowingly (using the same tactics). nettles would assist a dejected rhaena through the vale and back to the port so she can board the ship to pentos, when they come across grey ghost hunting for fish along the shore. now emboldened, rhaena tries to claim grey ghost (with nettles’ help) and this time succeed.
obviously there’s no way this is happening though bc the gullet has to happen in the first 2 eps AT LEAST, and if they’re going by the books, sheepstealer will be joining them… and 2 eps is just not enough for nettles x rhaena friendship /claiming of GG (through food) to play out 😭 but im going to use this hc as copium for the next 2 years regardless lmao
I think introducing a random green man helps to set up the theory that his body was recovered from the gods eye by the green men and he lives out the rest of his life on the isle of faces. Daemons dead body was never recovered according to lore. aemonds was.
Re: the first question on Alicent running to Rhaenyra - all I kept thinking of is Otto telling Alicent in season 1 (paraphrased - can’t remember exact language), *”either prepare Aegon to rule, or cleave onto Rhaenyra and beg for her mercy.”* Option A didn’t work out, so all she knows to do to save herself is option B.
I would love to see as a next project of GRRM (after TWoW of course) a couple short stories about Dunk & Egg, then Fire & Blood part II, and then A Dream of Springs.
Thanks
29:20 I assumed Deamon's visions weren't about a deterministic future, but rather intended to motivate Deamon specifically. Deamon saw Dany (a female Targ) to motivate him to unequivocally back Rheanyra (a female Targ) as the ruler who would protect this future hope.
I don't have a set idea about the ability of the WWN to create completely novel images, but manipulating them from along the stream of time to manipulate individual watchers doesn't seem beyond its abilities.
Also, maybe daemon sees denarys because thats who the old gods/3 eye’d raven thinks it is, sort of like how melisandre thinks stanis is the prince??
Given how Bloodraven behaves in the books, it seems that he thinks Jon is the prince.
Wasn't Larys told that he could not be Hand of the King because they wanted Otto back? If Otto is kidnapped that can't happen.
I think it was the Beesburys who captured him while he was traveling to the storm lands.
Everyone is taking ‘Sunfyre’s dead’ literal. Aegon wouldn’t have seen Sunfyre but I’m sure has been told how bad he is. Can’t fly, etc. He probably assumes he’s going to die so really he’s saying Sunfyre is good as dead. Also being a way to surprise non book readers if they stick to the book.
HotD is changing Fire & Blood book cannon to try to connect to GoT season 6-8. Show cannon and book cannon are not the same. Everything in this show leads back to GoT night king, Bran, Arya and the dagger. Rhaynera and Alicent are declawed from Fire & Blood with very little agency. Alyn also has absorbed Nettles scenes with all the low born drama, in book not portrayed as poor and starving but with mother who is a shipwright and sailor with obvious Targaryen or Valeryon blood. And Damon’s daughter has the other part of Nettles story for taming a wild dragon. And the whole Helena thing is just supporting Bran and Bloodraven in TV show. It’s fine all the changes but need to acknowledge it’s show cannon not book cannon and is being tied back to explain and support GoT TV show arcs.
Nettles isn’t needed for the show bcuz they already have a brown skinned girl riding a dragon. That takes away from the uniqueness of Nettles. Non book readers wouldn’t understand the importance of Nettles anyway, they were just told Targ blood only can ride Targ dragons. It would be too confusing.
Was thinking about Dany’s dragon’s size… they are unique and born of magic even more so (due to being petrified, the sacrifice, and the prophecy) than the dragons in Fire and Blood. Who’s to say they don’t grow at a faster rate as well in order to meet the needs against the long night?
Is it possible that Damond could have put slashes in the tree to make it bleed and put his hand in the blood/sapp to get a vision or to communicate with the net in some way. The way he showed getting the vision in the last episode.
I dont think bloodraven had anything to do with daemons vision or anything in the past, i just think that vision was showing all the major players
I've a bad feeling it will end up being Bran at the end of the show.
@@danielleeskeltonthey’re trying to explain GoT show cannon with HotD, tying it back to support GoT season 6-8.
I'm still confused about season 2. Was it great? Was it a bit off? Didn't like most of Harrenhal, and I found the focus on future odd and a bit over explainy, the rest I think I loved. I'll work it out. 😅 A lot of epic acting, sets and episodes. Still best show on TV
i think mysaria wanted bastards on the dragons because she knows in a war of dragons, they will most likely wipe themselves out and reset the balance of power in the world… the last shot of her in the show was ominous
What is she, an anime villain now? Reset the balance of power? If anything she’d wanna protect the bastards and have the official lords and ladies wipe themselves out then they emerge after.
Is the prophecy (presented to Daemon) including Danaerys and her dragons etc simply due to him being a massive Valyrianist (not a word?) and that’s what it may take to motivate him personally to do what he needs to do for events to play out? A vision of Arya & needle might have made 0 sense to him 😅🤷🏽♂️🤣🤣
2:57:12 Chimaera
I loved every episode of this season. This is a very good show. As a book reader, I think they have made the best out of the writers and then actors strike. I wish there were two more.
While ultimately "good", season 2of HotD was a frustrating display of deeply flawed writing, plotting, and pacing. In broad strokes, much of the time here is wasted engaging in "wheel" spinning, and, in various ways, forcibly moving pieces on the board in order to get a desired payoff. It's specific sins include (but are not limited to, as an exhaustive list would be WAY to long) inconsistent and/ or dumb characterization, unneeded dialogue to explicitly explain character motivation, "clunky" scenes, scenes that frequently lack the gravitas needed to consistently entertain, and even some payoff moments that, especially upon reflection, seem underwhelming, especially when compared with the source material. But even without the contrast, there is much wasted potential in this block of episodes.
The season did many things well too, of course, but the bad threatens to overtake the good. Not only is it a massive step down from season one-production values and a dragon fight don't matter that much next to everything else-but if season one had been as bad as it's sequel (and season one itself was certainly flawed too, and nowhere close to the dizzying heights of peak GoT...not that it had to be.) I would have never bothered to watch season two in the first place. I DID watch season two, however, and will press on, but I hope season three is a vast improvement because, frankly, season two is close to a plummet down into the realm of mediocrity. And no, the lack of good television elsewhere does not compel me to lower my standards, any more then it can magically erase a shows myriad problems.
Season 6?
It’s tough because I feel like season one did so well. I hope they don’t continue to drop the ball
@@danielleeskelton Whoops lol Thanks dude
I'm not betting on or getting my hopes up for Nettles, but there was a bit of cheekiness going on... when the dragon seeds were lining up for the ship voyage, you see a woman of color with large, fluffy curls in line. If you're on camera, that casting and hair/makeup doesn't happen by accident. I'm curious if it was a hint, or the director Loni Peristere was poking at book fans.
I do like your ideas of how the Nettles story could be merged into Rhaena's!
I guess this series sort of destroys GOT TV canon. Bran taking the throne doesn't fullfil the song of ice and fire. The "Night King" was defeated, yes, but it didn't mention what would happen if a Stark becomes king. I guess we'll never get the last 2 books anyway, so just more contradiction.
I liked Season 2 as a whole, but I didn't agree with all of the changes to the book.
I thought the last ep was rushed and replete with substandard writing. Shame they only had 8 episodes. 10 would have made the season.
Was another great stream my phone died at the end sadly but thanks again to Robert and all the mods!
Im not a mod for this channel but the ones it does have are just great. Some of my personal favourite mods are on this channel actually. Glad you liked the stream, and I hope you can fully charge your battery soon. ( assuming it's a lithium ion!)
When in doubt blame the phone charger
@@ThommyofThennalways love the streams!!!
Little off topic, instead of a walk thru of the 7 kingdoms, give us a well done discussion and "ah" bridged rereading of any of the text, please? Maybe a cup in, relax and just tell the story as you turn the page.
I never thought that Alicent's "mishearing" of Vicerys' deathbed words made any sense. If he was having doubts and wanted to change his mind, he would not have done it at the last moment. He would have known that this would throw the country into turmoil and Alicent knew that is not the kind of man he was. The showrunners were either showing her as a power hungry mother who was grasping at power and thrusting her unwilling child into a position they didn't want for her own sake, or they were bad writers who didn't understand how this was going to look.
Now that we have Blood Raven tied to the past like this, I wonder if Blood Raven gave Aegon the Conqueror the prophecy? Or even further I wonder if Blood Raven gave Daenys the Dreamer HER prophecy? How much is Blood Raven's fault? 🤣
When in doubt, blame Bloodraven 😂
Bloodraven was glimpse of the future. Of what is to come, not what has already happened. I don’t know why this is so hard for people.
@@coricori7661 You say this as if it is a fact - it is just your interpretation. Just as it is my interpretation that seeing Blood Raven looking directly out from the tree = Blood Raven looking at the past just as was said in the books. And possibly influencing the past as was shown by Bran reaching to the past and telling young Hodor to "hold the door".
You guys really ruin your viewership by telling spoilers
lol thanks for the warning
The frustrating thing about Daemon's "visions" and "charater growth" is, he just becomes who he was in the books (and season one) THE WHOLE TIME. Yes, in the books, they speculate about him wanting the throne, but actually, a careful reading reveals his primary driving force is love of, and need of validation from, his family, and the idea that he would entertain seriously the notion of usurping the throne from his wife is just nonsense and a misunderstanding of the character. AND IT WENT NOWHERE! Just a giant waste of time.
2:20 SPOILER I'm out
Can we all agree the show is bad ?... I'm dreading dunk and egg.
Grow up 😂
There is no excuse for Alicent to sell out her son to die. Character arcy butt
She never liked Aegon.
@@dashriprock8596 I don’t think other not liking Aegon. She knows her son is not fit to be king. She also knows he has been severely injured, what quality of life will he have. Maybe she see this as a mercy kill.
2:20 SPOILER I'm out
Book cannon and show cannon are not the same. Tons of things have changed. Anything can happen on the show.