The feeling of already being ruined is common, I assume. I remember being in a YW's class and realizing i had committed the "sin next to murder" It does a number on your mental health and actually made me give up causing even more promiscuity. I was damaged goods. It followed me into adulthood and I've only recently been able to work through the guilt and shame. For reference im 62 years old!!
Hearing Courtney talk about the bishop's response to opening up about being sexually assaulted makes my blood boil. My mother was raped and was counseled by her bishop to stop taking the sacrament as part of HER repentance for breaking the law of chastity. She felt broken and ended up marrying the man who raped her. He later strangled my mother's dog. When she asked her parents for advice on what to do they said, "He'll be fixed in the next life." She stayed with him. I am the first of the four kids she had with him. She later confided in another bishop about how she and her children were being abused. He brushed it aside and did nothing.
So sorry to hear that. Such a terrible experience. “Stay together if the spouse is abusive,” but if the spouse left the church then “you should consider divorce.”
I have the hardest time understanding why a woman would want to stay in such a misogynistic psychologically dysfunctional culture. It's so horrifying and demeaning. It actually causes me to feel half sick listening n trying to tolerate listening to this. Sounds like weird communist style. Many blessings ya'll.
I've been watching Mormon Stories podcast between calls and meetings at work, and I've got to say this was one of my favorite episodes. Courtney's personality, story, and perspectives are very unique. Such an incredible person. ❤
Even the way you're excusing his behaviour and saying he wasn't taught consent - if a man tried to get handsy with him, he 100% knows the word no means no. These guys take full advantage, that's why he picked someone younger and then laughed. I think teaching girls about consent, safety and sorting out their need for male validation and attention is far more important than trying to excuse/educate these men. They will never change, they will keep trying to manipulate young women whichever way they can.
Growing up in provo was weird and sometimes a nightmare. Singles wards are the worst women did all the work at ward activities while the piggish men showed up late and left early, never bothering to help. Not to mention the girls have to put up with sexual harassment from bishops, church leaders, SEMINARY TEACHERS, and of course the golden boy Mormons
I raised my children in Kaysville, UT, and we are not Mormons. It was awful. In public school, the teacher asked my son's class to write a paper on where they're going on their mission!
I raised my kids in the South and my oldest’s third grade public school teacher asked what church they all went to, and scheduled special snack day during Ramadan, knowing there was an observant Muslim in her class. Had a jr. high teacher who said there’s no such thing as the Episcopal Church. Sex ed program is abstinence only. Special assembly featured southern Baptist testimonies by athletes. High school clubs included society of Christian athletes but prohibited LGBTQ support club. A coach was called out for wearing a “Celebrate Black History” tee because a friend of a school board member thought it was a BLM shirt. I could go on.
My fellow Lutheran friends took a job in Salt Lake. He had to pull his son out of public school due to some nasty bullying by you-know-who and enrolled him in a private Catholic school.
I bet that guy in his truck understood what “no” meant in other contexts. And I bet he said “no” when he meant “no”. No excuses. I’m proud of you. You’re Awesome! Keep going in your plans and dreams!
Yeah, both of them are examples of sexual assault and your point about understanding "no" in other contexts is a perfect example. He understands what every single of the 10 commandments (a list of "no's") are, but when a live human being is right in front of him saying the word, somehow it's a mystery. We have to be careful not to confuse that boundary to the point of rape apologetics. It' is what it is, no means no.
I’m a lot older than both of you. My experience at Ricks( BYU Idaho) was much worse because of bishops. And there… so much more…. For years. I’m in my 70s now. Still makes me sad.
I'm in my 70's also, so BYU was more than 50 years ago. The branch president I had the semester before I married my RM in the SL temple was horrible. He wanted to grill me every week, telling me he had the gift of discernment and would not give me a recommend until the week before I married. I lived in the dorms just to avoid the appearance of evil. As he is grilling me that last time, he told me if I was unclean, the men in the temple would know and they would toss me out, mid ceremony. That's where he lost me for good. If those dudes were so sensitive, how would I even gain entry? So I get married in that whole weird temple culty weirdness. I never went to church again. I had always been sort of PIMO but that weirdness sent me off to be totally POMO.
many Christian faiths?? there’s no such thing as a man made “denomination” Mormonism def has A LOT of explaining to do. no wonder only followers are 3rd gen brainwashed since babies. you are either a Christian, a true disciple of Christ, following God with your life. if you are Christian & not married, God calls us to be CELIBATE
@@christianfarmer no never been in the position to be brainwashed. I studied KJV to show myself approved, by myself for years. I learned God calls us to be SET APART from this wicked world & live for Him. not once does Bible say “be religious” or “this denomination is Mine” when God called, I answered! the revelation & clarity He has blessed me with is astounding. All Praise to The Most High. to assume I’m ‘brainwashed’ would assume God brainwashes
I went to school in Rexburg and definitely agree with the representation. At church they preach about dating and getting married constantly. Also you are expected to tattle on your roommates. Every year you need another bishop interview to renew your honor code to continue at school. The bishops mainly deal with sex. They are old men who have no business hearing about young adult activities. The honor code office got in trouble in 2019 and made some tiny improvements. But it is a weird place for sure. Many men there do feel like girls who aren't virgins are fun, but not wife material and that is so disgusting. They themselves are not all virgins by the way. Double standard.
Times change, but people don't. Guys have radar for easy girls, and easy girls get talked about. Guys use them for sex, but don't marry used merchandise.
Not a double standard. Men and women are different In regards to many things including sex. If you had said a women made Einstein's equation but got no credit for it and he did, that would be a double standard.
@@Stefanonymous Thank you for setting me straight. You're right. It's not a double standard. Men should make the decisions about a woman's worth based on how used her vagina is.
Visited Rexberg in the mid 1990s and lived there for a few months in the spring of 99 (to enjoy the winter climate and snow sports, etc.). My friends were still in school at Ricks and I had already graduated from a Texas college. I grew tired of the behavior of folks (in Idaho and Utah) who thought I was a member, and then got very quiet after I said 'No' when asked if I was LDS. Though I wasn't looking for dates or asking ladies out; it was clear most females were looking for a Mormon mate; preferably a guy who had returned from a mission. There were soo many conversations were I would hear Mormons mention 'non-members' - and scoff at people dating non-members. While I met nice people - their strong bias/prejudice against non-members was enough for me to move on and not feel 'at home' unless I went over to Driggs or Jackson Hole.
I had one son and two daughters I felt like my most important role as my daughter's father is to show them how they should expect their husbands to treat them at the same time I wanted my son to see how he should treat his wife that was something I felt was very important I was stunned LDS till about 2 years ago. My kids have turned out to be very good sincere genuine adults
I was very impressed with Courtney's level of self-awareness as a young person. Also, despite all of the struggles that she has faced in Mormon communities, she is nevertheless very magnanimous in her views toward the Mormon people. I learned a lot! 👍👍👍
It's a shame for me to see women privilege penile-vaginal sex as the only thing that should be called "sex" and the only definition for having and losing virginity. I'm a gay man and I may never have that kind of sex, and for most women, as I understand it, that form of sex isn't especially sexually satisfying. It just really seems like we're having the straight men define sex for all the rest of us.
Some people don't enjoy it. Some do. It doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality. It is literally one of the most important acts on earth because it leads to procreation.
I'm pretty sure vaginal-penis sex is very enjoyable to the vast majority of women. Apparently a significant percent haven't had an orgasm from that type of sex. Which, as a woman who can have a dozen orgasms that way in a night, I don't understand.
@@Cocoisagordonsetter I'm pretty sure penises and vaginas aren't relegated to any single orientation, so everybody's perspective is relevant. The only thing that is irrelevant is whether procreation is involved, unless you're going to restrict all sexual activity to people who are physically able to have children, which still doesn't exclude gay penises and vaginas... 🤔
@@raincadeify You said a whole lotta words. I will repeat to you what I posted above which was a response to a comment. Your insane ramblings are just that. Some females enjoy the VERY traditional form of intercourse and some Do NOT. The fact that people can make babies in labs now is cool though, but for thousands of years it was done the obvious way. I suspect you were possibly created that way. Please Please Please do not enlighten me if you know differently.
So many things on this podcast resonated with me, since I grew up in SE Idaho lived in Rexburg as a teen and then went to BYU-Idaho. I also worked at BYU-Idaho for 6 years as an adult.
I’ve been to Rexburg. I had no idea when I was there it was a Mormon north. Well, while at Walmart I kept getting a weird vibe from the people. Sneers. Pasty white people starring at me. Kinda like when I lived in Mesa in 1961. Creepy place Rexburg is
@@Hallahanify well yes I am. But I'm not pasty white. Pasty White is white people who don't expose their skin to the sun. Long dresses, long sleeves etc. There is no color I see but pasty white faces and hands. Women don't walk side by side with their man. They walk a step behind. I saw that over and over at the 2 hours I spent in Wall Mart. And, every women I saw was with.a man. Very strange place and I'd like never to return. I leaned not to trust Mormons in Mesa 1961 and Rexburg is no different than Mesa.
I'm curious too, was there something about your appearance that stood out in Rexburg? Clothing, hair style, tattoos etc... Or did the staring seem completely random and unexplainable? Not that it matters much, staring is still rude. Just curious. I've been stared at too... Usually explicably, but occasionally inexplicably.
As much as I love John Dehlin, I thoroughly enjoyed Hayley as host for this video - she did fantastic! I appreciate the thoughtful questions, empathy, validation and eloquent communication. Courtney is awesome and very brave to speak up about her experiences…shame on that bishop (and all the others) for victim blaming you as a child. would love to see her back on the podcast as well. Great job everyone on this interview! 🤍🤍🤍
Hayley, Courtney, and Gerardo - each of your perspectives were so interesting here. I was thinking about my own experiences growing up and getting married so young bc of sexual and cultural pressures during several of the anecdotes, and really stopping to examine my feelings and practices today. Well done! Would love to see more of these kinds of discussions!
After my mission, I got involved with several different men throughout the years. I always thought I had a problem with the law of chasity. It took a therapist, who was Mormon, to tell me that I had been sexually assaulted all these different times. I also didn’t know that I could walk away after I told a man that I didn’t want to do anything sexual. I had all these problems with Mormon men. Anytime I mentioned to non-Mormons that I didn’t want to have sexual relations before marriage, they ended it before we started because they respected my choice. In my experience, Mormon men didn’t respect me. They just did what they wanted and then later blamed ME for being too sexual. I kid you not, there was a guy who would get sexual with me and then blame me that I didn’t stop him! There was even a bishop who threatened to take away my temple recommend and I asked them to because, at the time, I felt so guilty. The bishops never asked me if I was okay or if there was consent. It was just like you’ve sinned and now you have to read these talks and these scriptures and can’t take the sacrament. When I moved from Utah to Iowa, my Utah bishop told my Iowa bishop that I had done some repenting. What a jerk! I did everything he told me to do and he still didn’t see me as ‘worthy’ because I had sex with my boyfriend. Btw, we only dated for a month and I ended it because it got too sexual for me. Turns out I’m gay and not into men at all. Plot twist: later, that same Mormon therapist told me this: you must have needy printed on your forehead because you always get yourself in bad situations. 😮. Do you want to know why? There are several reasons. 1. I was never taught about sex. My mom took me out of sex ed class in 6th and 8th grade. Then, I learned about it from TV and I was shamed by an adult Mormon woman for learning that way. 2. I was never taught boundaries - both for myself and for others. 3. I’m autistic and I have delayed processing disorder which means I don’t always comprehend what’s happening to/around me until after it’s happened. 4. I grew up in an abusive home and never learned how people should be treated. I wanted to share this all because this podcast resonated with me so much. Thank you for listening.
This is the best intelligent, nuanced discussion I have ever heard about the issues of sexuality versus strict religious doctrine by young adults. I am Catholic from rural AZ. There are large Mormon communities throughout AZ in proximity to Catholics. Both religions share similar issues in dealing with sex education for adolescents. Abstinence is also promoted in Catholicism before marriage. But realistically the promiscuity, teen pregnancies, and STDs are prevalent in rural AZ which can be partially attributed to lack of public health interventions.
Thank you for being so brave and vulnerable in sharing your story Courtney and I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through. Mormonism teaches girls from a young age to be meek and mild- show kindness, not be rude or loud etc and that conditioning makes it hard to know how to handle a situation when “no” is not being heard. We weren’t taught any tools of how to handle that kind of situation. I wish you the best in your healing journey. ❤
Since Bishop's are called to preside over a congegation, they really have absolutely no training whatsoever in these types of situations. That does not excuse the shaming that these young ladies go through. No is no. I don't care if you are wearing a towel it does not give anyone the right to force themselves on someone else. What you are wearing is not the issue. The issue is the fact that because someone is stronger than you that they pushed the bounds of the law. He lost control, not her. The first thing that the bishop should have shown was compassion. Not lecture her on her wardrobe. All the bishop did was add to her distress by suggesting she should have expected as much. I wonder if he would have taken the same stance if this was his daughter? This idea that they cant help themselves because a girl bared her shoulders is complete BS. It took me years to understand it wasn't my fault. Didnt change the fact that I felt the repercussion for years. He certainly didn't honor his priesthood that night but I got blamed for it.
I think it is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous that young girls and teenage girls are told that they are walking pornography if they wear shorts and tank tops. Like what the hell! That is NOT pornographic IN ANY WAY!!!
At 28:35- I’m 62- when I was growing up my mom talked to me about sex. I was raised liberal Episcopalian. If I had any sex Ed classes it was purely anatomical, but that had nothing to do with religion for me. I was in high school in the late 70s. No one talked about consent. In fact, there was a lot of pressure to have sex. Fortunately, in high school, the guys I dated respected my boundaries. However, I totally understand what you are saying about not being able to just walk away. I was taught to be nice and worry more about other people’s feelings than my own. Walking away would hurt the guy’s feelings. 🙄 To this day, it makes me feel awful if I think I may have hurt someone’s feelings. I had no concept of boundaries or consent. I was raped at college my first year, and while I don’t in any way blame myself for that a**hole’s behavior, I do think that the outcome might have been different if I had known about boundaries and consent and had not been so conditioned to be nice all the time. That’s what is so scary to me when I hear that young people are still growing up that way. I’m sorry you went through those things and I appreciate your openness to talk about it. It’s so important that people share their stories.
They're not bringing up the Massive Shame Response some religious people have while having sex. The Religious Person (man or woman) will be 100% into it. And consenting. And then all of a sudden Massive Guilt hits them and they become a completely different person.
I am just getting into this. I haven't been to Rexburg in 10 years, not being religious but I have been in the Rexburg Temple several times, but some 12 years ago, I found Mormon Think and Mormon Stories and it was down the rabbit hole for me. I don't have much relatable stuff to say except that my son-in-law, councilor in one of the wards there, and the band leader of the Madison music department, along with my daughter who has not seen me in 10 years. Some example with shunning. I was able to phone her last week (They took off the phone block.) but the relationship isn't the same. She didn't even recognize my voice. Sorry to ramble but when Madison High was mentioned it brought back memories.
Often times " church people" are only friends, coworkers, family of the person affected. Knowing that your reputation at church, at work, at home, school ... Everywhere can be negatively affected. Thus means completely uprooting the person. It's absolutely terrifying and can be devastating to one's life.
Great interview! Losing your virginity is not the end of the world, but it seems to do irreparable damage to the women involved if they are not convinced that they love this person. I still think waiting for that special person is the highest wave but very few of us managed to achieve it with some degree of sorrow and regret. My opinion....
I think demystification is called for. Love isn't necessary but healthy boundaries and enough self-awareness to know if one is ready. There's nothing sacred about marriage or love that makes it a greenlight imo. Marriage is just a rubber stamp on a what may turn out to be a very bad idea.
Courtney, God, I wish I'd known what was going on and could have been there for you. There's no words for what you went through and had to navigate, and mostly alone. It breaks my heart! With my own SA and abuse, I know having a safe place to talk can be so cathartic, so I'm glad you found that place. I can't believe our bishop responded like that and never asked if you were okay! What a prick! That makes me rage! Thank you for sharing your story. Your sense of self was something that I noticed and admired about you. If you ever want to chat, I'm here for you, but I warn you, I swear even more now. 😂
Love listening to your calm voice,, Gerardo. ❤ great job newbies IMO sex Ed in school or from parents can prevent many rapes and allows the LDS members to have better sexual relationships/ marriages. Must learn to “make love” not just penetration. ❤
It's sad but it's verifiably true. Teaching children consent and the correct names for their own anatomy, enables them to recognise abuse and reach out for help. Which should never be their responsibility but that's our reality
Wow, you really made me think with an expanded perspective about how we view the "sanctity of marriage." Is it really respecting the sanctity of marriage to pressure young adults into marriage before they are ready and before they actively choose it for themselves? Or is the act of applying that kind of pressure more telling of the spiritual immaturity of the one applying the pressure? If we have to see an outward technicality met and that's the single make-or-break difference before we are able to withhold judgment and to show unconditional love and respect for our own child and for their own journey of growth and self-determination, then we are letting our own spiritual immaturity show.
Great podcast, the topic changed into something so incredibly important. Mormon culture does not allow for conversations about sex, my parents couldn't say the word, they were too modest and the word sex had a dirty connotation. Because these conversations are not being had, I was not safe along with many other young men and women. The last people that I wanted to talk about sex with, would have been my parents, and church leaders. It shouldn't be that way at all.
I relate more to her then any other guest before because i had complex questions from a younger age and saw discrepancies a lot faster than my peers. It was very hard. I also have a strong personality so it was not easy..
Can you guys do an explanation between the feud of the other church that’s it’s like LDS, I thing is church of Christ. I remember on the trip that took us in youth conference to navoo we couldn’t go into Joseph smith house because it was own by the other church. Please explain if y’all know?
I am over and over again impressed by the sharpness of hosts and guests on this program. @Mormon Stories: it looks like a lot of the criticism of the format is from non members of the channel. IMO it looks like they are here to judge more than to listen. Also, I wonder if they know they can listen to the podcast and not worry about eye contact and camera angles?
What is disappointing about this is that fawning or defensive comments get a "heart" response from Mormon Stories while no appreciation is shown to people who offered valid input expressing empathy for the guest who has survived some horrific stuff. You're drawing a line between people who are viewing this content, in some cases for years, and those who are "members"? You're valuing those differently and MS is approving that sentiment? That's the culty part of parasocial relationships that this channel should discourage. This isn't a club for a select few, is it? I've been here a long time and can say a constant theme has always been the value of diversity of opinion. Why were John and so many others excommunicated? They challenged stuff in the hope of making the church they loved better. They stood up for marginalized people who were not being valued or heard. Based on my overall experience here, I'm appalled that you're suggesting nonmembers' opinions are less valid and getting approval from the channel for saying it. Saying that an SA survivor should not be talking to the side of someone's head while she bears her soul in front of thousands of people is not something you or this channel should be threatened by. And seriously, are you really looking up the names of people who left comments you don't like to see if they are paying for a membership so you can post that? Really??
I don't know what Rexburg is like but just a few hundred miles to the west I grew up around Mormons in the 70s and 80s and a lot of what she says does not describe them very well. Overall they were really good neighbors and the parents were very involved in volunteering in the schools and sports. I never felt excluded or treated as lesser than by their parents.
46:29 Are you reading these questions off a teleprompter or queue cards? I really don't like how you're making eye contact with the camera when you ask a question and then turn your head to look at the guest when you've finished, it feels so impersonal and alienating to your guest. put your queue card questions off camera behind your guest so you can remain looking at and interacting with them.
This was how rexburg was at ricks college in late 80s same exact. Nothing ever changed. Your story triggered many similar memories. Exact as if I told my story as well. Others as well
Good for you. You knew in your core that something was off. It's so sad how so many people are easily brainwashed. I also don't understand how they want you to hide your bodies, yet have a ton of kids confusion.
So much of this sort of thing I think comes from the horrible notion that people's worth is somehow tied to their sexuality and, more specifically, virginity. Abstinence does not equal virtue!
@@davewhite756 A very easy way would be to get a video of a bishop interviewing a child. Post that video online and publicly ask why this predatory behavior is allowed. A bit like How to Catch a Predator'
I'm always a little confused about the seating arrangement on this channel because you only see one person in a shot at a time. In this case, one host is talking to the camera even though the person she's talking to is right there, probably to her right.. Idk, maybe it's just me, but I wish they would zoom out now and then out to establish where everyone is. Also, it feels impersonal for the host to be talking to the camera instead of the guest, especially considering the subject matter. Overall this was a good discussion and I give credit to Courtney for being willing to talk openly about this deeply personal stuff.
I think we need to stop saying they don’t know what they are doing. I’m sorry as someone with more experience NO. These boys and men know what they are doing. I’m so sorry about what you experienced my dear. I’m so sick of my beautiful sisters being so disrespected and used. As mothers we need to teach our sons, and we need the fathers to actually respect women as well. Unfortunately most men are predators in a way. Even looking at a woman that is the same age as your daughter or grandchild is sick. Seriously grow up and protect the feminine. ❤
I think that this conversation excuses men (like me) too much. This was a rape and most men would take a “no” for “no” and would not have pressed when she told him upfront that she did not want sex. The problem is this excuse for men (“they were not taught” etc) makes all men, especially LDS men, seem like potential rapists. So many of us men are careful and these incidents are terrible and the exception not the rule. I agree that in matters of sexuality men are generally the aggressors - but women can be sexually aggressive too and may not get verbal consent before moving forward. I’ve met them for sure. That said - I am certainly teaching my daughters, and sons, to verbalize consent.
💯. It's a dim view of men to think that most would rape someone just because in that specific case, they don't know what consent is. Especially when it comes to high demand religions which have not shortage of "no's" that everybody's expected to adhere to, somehow though when it comes to rape, things get confusing.
I grew up in the area, went to school in Rigby. I dated mormon men and I swear that they're taught to be handsy as hell. I've dated men with tattoos, long hair and listened to goth metal and been treated so much better than a mormon guy. Hence, a good reason that I'm still single.
Courtney, as I was finishing this I wanted to tell you about a 33-year old vlogger on you-tube who travels all over the world a lot in her Odysey camper and alone. She is Polish, educated in the United Kingdom. she has toured in this country but in the Western states, but she doesn't like big cities. On one of her posts, she tells her followers, over a million, that she doesn't want kids. She was married and divorced for the same reason kind of as you. She is not LDS but was raised Christian but now does her own thing. Her sex life seems to similar to yours. She has decided to not have relationships for a year. If you have time, you might want to look up Eva Zu Beck. I think you and she might have a lot in common and you might get some pointers on navigating this life. And this pushing isn't just in the Church. Patriarchy is a problem all over the world but mostly with religions that are based on the Bible like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Mormonism. I had lots of sex with one girl who was active when I met her. I loved how much we did it, but then I joined the Church and was put on a guilt trip for what I had learned from Playboy Magazine, and not realizing that what I did in my bedroom was my business and not that of a Mormon prophet.
Loved this episode but have to admit the constant texting and dinging was super annoying and distracting. I’d suggest turning personal phones on silent during podcasts.
Yes. The constant text messaging phone sounds were very distracting. Please mute your cell phones in future interviews or at least give a warning at the beginning that there will be a lot of distractions.
Agreed! Wish they had cough buttons too. Not because anyone coughed, but someone kept glugging a drink over the microphone. I listen to the podcast, so I don't have the video to help distract me from all the extra sounds. I gave up and didn't finish the episode.
This makes me so angry! So it's the girls fault that the guy has no self control. Other people go to church in shorts & tank tops. Can you believe it?And they 26:13 have less incidents of child abuse & rape
I very much disagree that boys/men aren’t told or don’t know what “no” means. He was most definitely a predator and took advantage of you being 17. There is no grace for him. I’m sorry that happened to you. I think this is mostly everyone’s first time story though. I think Mormon Stories could be a great show to have this discussion with non-Mormons on the show to get both sides of the story of everyone from different worlds having the same story and discussing the whys.
I got a DUI In rexburg. My experience was really difficult but thankfully the judge was an elderly guy and actually reminded me of a bishop. Maybe he was. 18 months of probation and a bunch of community service. I live in Pocatello so did my probation here. The probation officer in rexburg completely ignored me for 18 months. Anyway. I don’t go back to Rexburg anymore. 😊
Interesting. My father was a pastor in an evangelical church and these people were as restrictive and critical of us, if not more. I didn't know anything about sex until after high school. My parents were not this way but the church ladies were huge gossips.
Thank you ladies for your bravery. I commend you. That aside, I'd just like to say that I found it off putting how Hayley looked down the camera when speaking to Courtney about their shared traumatic experiences. Especially during her heartfelt apologies that she issued, without turning to look at Courtney. It came off as insincere and rehearsed. I give this feedback in the hope that it may be constructive for your career and interviewing skills going forward.
Totally agree here, I feel Hailey is sincere & really love her content and conversations. But it was noticeable and very very slightly off putting looking directly into the camera instead of facing the person your talking to
Yeah, I left a similar comment. I thought it might be because she's used to formats where she's online and not in the same room with the people she's talking to. But asking for details of a rape experience while not even looking at her to see how it's landing...
John used to do this too (look into the camera rather than at the guests) until people mentioned it, so it's not always intuitive. She would probably make that change going forward.
There are OTC birth control pills available and your pharmacist can prescribe them in some states (such as Arizona if they are trained). New generic plan b pills are now in the ballpark of $15
There is currently an option in some places for over the counter progesterone only hormonal contraception. With hormonal birth control that’s combined with estrogen I can see why that is more regulated because there are a lot of conditions that that contraception can cause negative side effects with and are contraindicated. So a thorough medical history is important for those and more research might be needed to see if that history can be taken by a pharmacist or can be done by touch screen in an accurate manner.
interesting how the bishops response is to blame and seek excuse rather to comfort and be an open ear to listen and encourage to seek out what is really at heart like was the interaction consensual and how to navigate the choices and consequences for both parties involved aka boundaries
They asked me who the other person was. Like three years ago but I was much older and they were my age so possibly in leadership. They wanted to inform the other person's bishop.
Why can no one else originally come up with the concept that god can create earth with a backstory? He could have literally created the world this morning yet you think you existed before that because you were made with memories. You limit God by saying he had to have started with the big bang. Is God limited by time? Could he not have his own time? Could he not create the universes past, present, and future all at once?
I didn’t notice this at all. I saw and heard the three of them listening well and responding thoughtfully to each other. (I’m a pre smart phone dinosaur, but I have gotten used to the quick glance at devices. There was a time 20 years ago that it would have annoyed me.)
I wish the computer and phone alerts would be silenced before recording begins. Listeners look at THEIR phone or computer with every alart. I finally turned this one off because ot was so distracting. It is surprising that MS is coming up on 2000 episodes yet there are aspects that are still so unprofessional.
Oh ya it should be addressed, why are grown men allowed to talk to teenage girls about their sex life? This is not ok. Ive heard now they can have someone present with them so the they're not alone. But still, these conversations are creepy and shouldn't even be happening. A girl should be able to talk to another female not a man about these things. Either way Mormonism invades privacy on all levels.
What no one is connecting here is that the lack of sexual education and what are normal desires as human beings is a problem on both sides. When girls are friendly it’s misinterpreted as flirting or leading the guy on. She hasn’t been taught what her actions are doing or implying to the males. The males are thinking oh this chick is in to me, and biologically it’s not an easy shut off for men. So she’s going to feel used and he’s going to be demonized. Second, another connection to this piece is that when individuals who have a history of being abused or neglected at home, return to the person they were intimate with, it’s because there some kind of emotional connection trade off because someone is giving them the gift of time. Third point is that because there isn’t education (many members believe that sex ed belongs at home and not in schools but it’s not genuinely discussed at home. So this lack of education places individuals in a vulnerable situation that when they’re feeling coerced into sexual activity they begin the victim mode mentality. Which could be avoided by knowing upfront the biological differences between men and women and how each are more vulnerable throughout sexual relationships. Fourth point is that there’s no question that religious overreach into personal wearing of clothes and garments does do harm both ways. It’s absolutely not fair to guys to be continually exposed to overly skimpy outfits…my saying that doesn’t excuse men for not respecting boundaries of asking and the word no. It’s also damning for women to grow up so covered up and body shamed that they don’t feel beautiful about themselves. Garments don’t help with sexual activity or connectivity in the bedroom. Rather it interferes with the most important part of a covenant relationship.
We are taught to guard your virginity like would gaurd your life. Then when you loose your virginity. You feel tainted dirty,used. I lost my virginity to the bishops son. After that,he was on to his next supply,& l really mean that.
I asked my TBM seminary teacher uncle when I was an adult “what about the dinosaurs” 8:04 and he laughed and said it was just a mistake that god made!!?!?!! God makes mistakes?? 😂
I love that John is willing to hand his platform over and uplift the voices of women. If only the Mormon church could do that.
The feeling of already being ruined is common, I assume. I remember being in a YW's class and realizing i had committed the "sin next to murder" It does a number on your mental health and actually made me give up causing even more promiscuity. I was damaged goods. It followed me into adulthood and I've only recently been able to work through the guilt and shame. For reference im 62 years old!!
Hearing Courtney talk about the bishop's response to opening up about being sexually assaulted makes my blood boil. My mother was raped and was counseled by her bishop to stop taking the sacrament as part of HER repentance for breaking the law of chastity. She felt broken and ended up marrying the man who raped her. He later strangled my mother's dog. When she asked her parents for advice on what to do they said, "He'll be fixed in the next life." She stayed with him. I am the first of the four kids she had with him. She later confided in another bishop about how she and her children were being abused. He brushed it aside and did nothing.
damn
So very sorry your Mother was treated with such disregard.
That’s just awful. I’m so sorry. My mom had a very similar experience.
So sorry to hear that. Such a terrible experience. “Stay together if the spouse is abusive,” but if the spouse left the church then “you should consider divorce.”
I have the hardest time understanding why a woman would want to stay in such a misogynistic psychologically dysfunctional culture. It's so horrifying and demeaning. It actually causes me to feel half sick listening n trying to tolerate listening to this. Sounds like weird communist style. Many blessings ya'll.
I've been watching Mormon Stories podcast between calls and meetings at work, and I've got to say this was one of my favorite episodes. Courtney's personality, story, and perspectives are very unique. Such an incredible person. ❤
Even the way you're excusing his behaviour and saying he wasn't taught consent - if a man tried to get handsy with him, he 100% knows the word no means no. These guys take full advantage, that's why he picked someone younger and then laughed. I think teaching girls about consent, safety and sorting out their need for male validation and attention is far more important than trying to excuse/educate these men. They will never change, they will keep trying to manipulate young women whichever way they can.
Exactly.. Otherwise I'm gonna go find this guy and "ask" for his atm card, lol.
The church breeds sexual predators.
I just couldn’t imagine going through the day without a cup of coffee
Growing up in provo was weird and sometimes a nightmare. Singles wards are the worst women did all the work at ward activities while the piggish men showed up late and left early, never bothering to help. Not to mention the girls have to put up with sexual harassment from bishops, church leaders, SEMINARY TEACHERS, and of course the golden boy Mormons
I raised my children in Kaysville, UT, and we are not Mormons. It was awful. In public school, the teacher asked my son's class to write a paper on where they're going on their mission!
Mormons and evangelicals and 1/2 of Catholics are just explicitly fascist, the polar opposite of Jesus. Wild.
I'm so sorry.. I raised my kids in Fruit HEIGHTS, BUT at the time I was full on Mormon... But no longer !!!!
I raised my kids in the South and my oldest’s third grade public school teacher asked what church they all went to, and scheduled special snack day during Ramadan, knowing there was an observant Muslim in her class. Had a jr. high teacher who said there’s no such thing as the Episcopal Church. Sex ed program is abstinence only. Special assembly featured southern Baptist testimonies by athletes. High school clubs included society of Christian athletes but prohibited LGBTQ support club. A coach was called out for wearing a “Celebrate Black History” tee because a friend of a school board member thought it was a BLM shirt. I could go on.
Sounds soo awful 😂 lol.
My fellow Lutheran friends took a job in Salt Lake. He had to pull his son out of public school due to some nasty bullying by you-know-who and enrolled him in a private Catholic school.
I bet that guy in his truck understood what “no” meant in other contexts. And I bet he said “no” when he meant “no”. No excuses. I’m proud of you.
You’re Awesome! Keep going in your plans and dreams!
Yeah, both of them are examples of sexual assault and your point about understanding "no" in other contexts is a perfect example. He understands what every single of the 10 commandments (a list of "no's") are, but when a live human being is right in front of him saying the word, somehow it's a mystery. We have to be careful not to confuse that boundary to the point of rape apologetics. It' is what it is, no means no.
I’m a lot older than both of you. My experience at Ricks( BYU Idaho) was much worse because of bishops. And there… so much more…. For years. I’m in my 70s now. Still makes me sad.
I'm in my 70's also, so BYU was more than 50 years ago. The branch president I had the semester before I married my RM in the SL temple was horrible. He wanted to grill me every week, telling me he had the gift of discernment and would not give me a recommend until the week before I married. I lived in the dorms just to avoid the appearance of evil.
As he is grilling me that last time, he told me if I was unclean, the men in the temple would know and they would toss me out, mid ceremony.
That's where he lost me for good. If those dudes were so sensitive, how would I even gain entry?
So I get married in that whole weird temple culty weirdness. I never went to church again. I had always been sort of PIMO but that weirdness sent me off to be totally POMO.
It’s never the boys fault at church colleges, just not LDS. And many Christian faiths encourage abstinence.
Except it is. It depends on the bishop. Some bishops blame every thing on the boy.
I had sex twice and one was with a gay man who had been sexually with other men. Neither time was there a condom. I had no idea.
many Christian faiths?? there’s no such thing as a man made “denomination” Mormonism def has A LOT of explaining to do. no wonder only followers are 3rd gen brainwashed since babies. you are either a Christian, a true disciple of Christ, following God with your life. if you are Christian & not married, God calls us to be CELIBATE
@FaithwWorks good lord you're brainwashed
@@christianfarmer no never been in the position to be brainwashed. I studied KJV to show myself approved, by myself for years. I learned God calls us to be SET APART from this wicked world & live for Him. not once does Bible say “be religious” or “this denomination is Mine” when God called, I answered! the revelation & clarity He has blessed me with is astounding. All Praise to The Most High. to assume I’m ‘brainwashed’ would assume God brainwashes
I went to school in Rexburg and definitely agree with the representation. At church they preach about dating and getting married constantly. Also you are expected to tattle on your roommates. Every year you need another bishop interview to renew your honor code to continue at school. The bishops mainly deal with sex. They are old men who have no business hearing about young adult activities. The honor code office got in trouble in 2019 and made some tiny improvements. But it is a weird place for sure. Many men there do feel like girls who aren't virgins are fun, but not wife material and that is so disgusting. They themselves are not all virgins by the way. Double standard.
Times change, but people don't. Guys have radar for easy girls, and easy girls get talked about. Guys use them for sex, but don't marry used merchandise.
Tinder Mormon women
Not a double standard. Men and women are different In regards to many things including sex. If you had said a women made Einstein's equation but got no credit for it and he did, that would be a double standard.
@@Stefanonymous Thank you for setting me straight. You're right. It's not a double standard. Men should make the decisions about a woman's worth based on how used her vagina is.
Visited Rexberg in the mid 1990s and lived there for a few months in the spring of 99 (to enjoy the winter climate and snow sports, etc.). My friends were still in school at Ricks and I had already graduated from a Texas college. I grew tired of the behavior of folks (in Idaho and Utah) who thought I was a member, and then got very quiet after I said 'No' when asked if I was LDS. Though I wasn't looking for dates or asking ladies out; it was clear most females were looking for a Mormon mate; preferably a guy who had returned from a mission. There were soo many conversations were I would hear Mormons mention 'non-members' - and scoff at people dating non-members. While I met nice people - their strong bias/prejudice against non-members was enough for me to move on and not feel 'at home' unless I went over to Driggs or Jackson Hole.
I had one son and two daughters I felt like my most important role as my daughter's father is to show them how they should expect their husbands to treat them at the same time I wanted my son to see how he should treat his wife that was something I felt was very important I was stunned LDS till about 2 years ago. My kids have turned out to be very good sincere genuine adults
I was very impressed with Courtney's level of self-awareness as a young person. Also, despite all of the struggles that she has faced in Mormon communities, she is nevertheless very magnanimous in her views toward the Mormon people. I learned a lot! 👍👍👍
All good points. Kudos to Courtney. I don’t think I could have been as magnanimous.
It's a shame for me to see women privilege penile-vaginal sex as the only thing that should be called "sex" and the only definition for having and losing virginity. I'm a gay man and I may never have that kind of sex, and for most women, as I understand it, that form of sex isn't especially sexually satisfying. It just really seems like we're having the straight men define sex for all the rest of us.
They are talking about their experience. That’s what sex and virginity was for them at that time.
Some people don't enjoy it. Some do. It doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality. It is literally one of the most important acts on earth because it leads to procreation.
I'm pretty sure vaginal-penis sex is very enjoyable to the vast majority of women. Apparently a significant percent haven't had an orgasm from that type of sex. Which, as a woman who can have a dozen orgasms that way in a night, I don't understand.
@@Cocoisagordonsetter I'm pretty sure penises and vaginas aren't relegated to any single orientation, so everybody's perspective is relevant. The only thing that is irrelevant is whether procreation is involved, unless you're going to restrict all sexual activity to people who are physically able to have children, which still doesn't exclude gay penises and vaginas... 🤔
@@raincadeify You said a whole lotta words. I will repeat to you what I posted above which was a response to a comment. Your insane ramblings are just that. Some females enjoy the VERY traditional form of intercourse and some Do NOT. The fact that people can make babies in labs now is cool though, but for thousands of years it was done the obvious way. I suspect you were possibly created that way. Please Please Please do not enlighten me if you know differently.
I'm 63 years old and nothing has changed...
So many things on this podcast resonated with me, since I grew up in SE Idaho lived in Rexburg as a teen and then went to BYU-Idaho. I also worked at BYU-Idaho for 6 years as an adult.
I'm really intrigued in all those places now after following the Daybell trial. Chad Daybell's family is incomprehensible to me.
I’ve been to Rexburg. I had no idea when I was there it was a Mormon north. Well, while at Walmart I kept getting a weird vibe from the people. Sneers. Pasty white people starring at me. Kinda like when I lived in Mesa in 1961. Creepy place Rexburg is
Are you not white, I don't understand?
@@Hallahanify Why would that even matter-don’t stare at people!🙄
@@soude85 I'm just confused why they would be staring.
@@Hallahanify well yes I am. But I'm not pasty white. Pasty White is white people who don't expose their skin to the sun. Long dresses, long sleeves etc. There is no color I see but pasty white faces and hands. Women don't walk side by side with their man. They walk a step behind. I saw that over and over at the 2 hours I spent in Wall Mart. And, every women I saw was with.a man. Very strange place and I'd like never to return. I leaned not to trust Mormons in Mesa 1961 and Rexburg is no different than Mesa.
I'm curious too, was there something about your appearance that stood out in Rexburg? Clothing, hair style, tattoos etc... Or did the staring seem completely random and unexplainable? Not that it matters much, staring is still rude. Just curious. I've been stared at too... Usually explicably, but occasionally inexplicably.
As much as I love John Dehlin, I thoroughly enjoyed Hayley as host for this video - she did fantastic! I appreciate the thoughtful questions, empathy, validation and eloquent communication. Courtney is awesome and very brave to speak up about her experiences…shame on that bishop (and all the others) for victim blaming you as a child. would love to see her back on the podcast as well. Great job everyone on this interview! 🤍🤍🤍
Hayley, Courtney, and Gerardo - each of your perspectives were so interesting here. I was thinking about my own experiences growing up and getting married so young bc of sexual and cultural pressures during several of the anecdotes, and really stopping to examine my feelings and practices today. Well done! Would love to see more of these kinds of discussions!
After my mission, I got involved with several different men throughout the years. I always thought I had a problem with the law of chasity. It took a therapist, who was Mormon, to tell me that I had been sexually assaulted all these different times. I also didn’t know that I could walk away after I told a man that I didn’t want to do anything sexual. I had all these problems with Mormon men. Anytime I mentioned to non-Mormons that I didn’t want to have sexual relations before marriage, they ended it before we started because they respected my choice.
In my experience, Mormon men didn’t respect me. They just did what they wanted and then later blamed ME for being too sexual. I kid you not, there was a guy who would get sexual with me and then blame me that I didn’t stop him!
There was even a bishop who threatened to take away my temple recommend and I asked them to because, at the time, I felt so guilty.
The bishops never asked me if I was okay or if there was consent. It was just like you’ve sinned and now you have to read these talks and these scriptures and can’t take the sacrament.
When I moved from Utah to Iowa, my Utah bishop told my Iowa bishop that I had done some repenting. What a jerk! I did everything he told me to do and he still didn’t see me as ‘worthy’ because I had sex with my boyfriend. Btw, we only dated for a month and I ended it because it got too sexual for me. Turns out I’m gay and not into men at all.
Plot twist: later, that same Mormon therapist told me this: you must have needy printed on your forehead because you always get yourself in bad situations. 😮. Do you want to know why? There are several reasons.
1. I was never taught about sex. My mom took me out of sex ed class in 6th and 8th grade. Then, I learned about it from TV and I was shamed by an adult Mormon woman for learning that way.
2. I was never taught boundaries - both for myself and for others.
3. I’m autistic and I have delayed processing disorder which means I don’t always comprehend what’s happening to/around me until after it’s happened.
4. I grew up in an abusive home and never learned how people should be treated.
I wanted to share this all because this podcast resonated with me so much.
Thank you for listening.
Amazing episode. Thank you for Courtney for sharing your story. ❤❤❤
In Mormonism, the man has all the power. So they think whatever they want, they should take
Lol no
This is the best intelligent, nuanced discussion I have ever heard about the issues of sexuality versus strict religious doctrine by young adults. I am Catholic from rural AZ. There are large Mormon communities throughout AZ in proximity to Catholics. Both religions share similar issues in dealing with sex education for adolescents. Abstinence is also promoted in Catholicism before marriage. But realistically the promiscuity, teen pregnancies, and STDs are prevalent in rural AZ which can be partially attributed to lack of public health interventions.
Thank you for being so brave and vulnerable in sharing your story Courtney and I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through. Mormonism teaches girls from a young age to be meek and mild- show kindness, not be rude or loud etc and that conditioning makes it hard to know how to handle a situation when “no” is not being heard. We weren’t taught any tools of how to handle that kind of situation. I wish you the best in your healing journey. ❤
Two great hosts!
Since Bishop's are called to preside over a congegation, they really have absolutely no training whatsoever in these types of situations. That does not excuse the shaming that these young ladies go through. No is no. I don't care if you are wearing a towel it does not give anyone the right to force themselves on someone else. What you are wearing is not the issue. The issue is the fact that because someone is stronger than you that they pushed the bounds of the law. He lost control, not her. The first thing that the bishop should have shown was compassion. Not lecture her on her wardrobe. All the bishop did was add to her distress by suggesting she should have expected as much. I wonder if he would have taken the same stance if this was his daughter? This idea that they cant help themselves because a girl bared her shoulders is complete BS. It took me years to understand it wasn't my fault. Didnt change the fact that I felt the repercussion for years. He certainly didn't honor his priesthood that night but I got blamed for it.
I think it is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous that young girls and teenage girls are told that they are walking pornography if they wear shorts and tank tops. Like what the hell! That is NOT pornographic IN ANY WAY!!!
At 28:35- I’m 62- when I was growing up my mom talked to me about sex. I was raised liberal Episcopalian. If I had any sex Ed classes it was purely anatomical, but that had nothing to do with religion for me. I was in high school in the late 70s. No one talked about consent. In fact, there was a lot of pressure to have sex. Fortunately, in high school, the guys I dated respected my boundaries. However, I totally understand what you are saying about not being able to just walk away. I was taught to be nice and worry more about other people’s feelings than my own. Walking away would hurt the guy’s feelings. 🙄 To this day, it makes me feel awful if I think I may have hurt someone’s feelings. I had no concept of boundaries or consent. I was raped at college my first year, and while I don’t in any way blame myself for that a**hole’s behavior, I do think that the outcome might have been different if I had known about boundaries and consent and had not been so conditioned to be nice all the time. That’s what is so scary to me when I hear that young people are still growing up that way. I’m sorry you went through those things and I appreciate your openness to talk about it. It’s so important that people share their stories.
They're not bringing up the Massive Shame Response some religious people have while having sex. The Religious Person (man or woman) will be 100% into it. And consenting. And then all of a sudden Massive Guilt hits them and they become a completely different person.
It doesn't sound like she really had the shame thing, though.
I am just getting into this. I haven't been to Rexburg in 10 years, not being religious but I have been in the Rexburg Temple several times, but some 12 years ago, I found Mormon Think and Mormon Stories and it was down the rabbit hole for me. I don't have much relatable stuff to say except that my son-in-law, councilor in one of the wards there, and the band leader of the Madison music department, along with my daughter who has not seen me in 10 years. Some example with shunning. I was able to phone her last week (They took off the phone block.) but the relationship isn't the same. She didn't even recognize my voice. Sorry to ramble but when Madison High was mentioned it brought back memories.
Often times " church people" are only friends, coworkers, family of the person affected. Knowing that your reputation at church, at work, at home, school ... Everywhere can be negatively affected. Thus means completely uprooting the person. It's absolutely terrifying and can be devastating to one's life.
Great interview! Losing your virginity is not the end of the world, but it seems to do irreparable damage to the women involved if they are not convinced that they love this person. I still think waiting for that special person is the highest wave but very few of us managed to achieve it with some degree of sorrow and regret. My opinion....
I think demystification is called for. Love isn't necessary but healthy boundaries and enough self-awareness to know if one is ready. There's nothing sacred about marriage or love that makes it a greenlight imo. Marriage is just a rubber stamp on a what may turn out to be a very bad idea.
This was a really outstanding interview! ❤
Courtney, God, I wish I'd known what was going on and could have been there for you. There's no words for what you went through and had to navigate, and mostly alone. It breaks my heart! With my own SA and abuse, I know having a safe place to talk can be so cathartic, so I'm glad you found that place. I can't believe our bishop responded like that and never asked if you were okay! What a prick! That makes me rage! Thank you for sharing your story. Your sense of self was something that I noticed and admired about you. If you ever want to chat, I'm here for you, but I warn you, I swear even more now. 😂
Very relevant from a non-lds perspective as well
Y’all should cover what’s been happing in Laie Hawaii with the church and BYUH steamrolling over the locals with the land issues
Love listening to your calm voice,, Gerardo. ❤ great job newbies
IMO sex Ed in school or from parents can prevent many rapes and allows the LDS members to have better sexual relationships/ marriages. Must learn to “make love” not just penetration. ❤
It is Gerardo
It's sad but it's verifiably true. Teaching children consent and the correct names for their own anatomy, enables them to recognise abuse and reach out for help. Which should never be their responsibility but that's our reality
Wow, you really made me think with an expanded perspective about how we view the "sanctity of marriage." Is it really respecting the sanctity of marriage to pressure young adults into marriage before they are ready and before they actively choose it for themselves? Or is the act of applying that kind of pressure more telling of the spiritual immaturity of the one applying the pressure? If we have to see an outward technicality met and that's the single make-or-break difference before we are able to withhold judgment and to show unconditional love and respect for our own child and for their own journey of growth and self-determination, then we are letting our own spiritual immaturity show.
Great podcast, the topic changed into something so incredibly important. Mormon culture does not allow for conversations about sex, my parents couldn't say the word, they were too modest and the word sex had a dirty connotation.
Because these conversations are not being had, I was not safe along with many other young men and women. The last people that I wanted to talk about sex with, would have been my parents, and church leaders. It shouldn't be that way at all.
Non Mormon women go through this as well. Really sad. 🙏❤
I relate more to her then any other guest before because i had complex questions from a younger age and saw discrepancies a lot faster than my peers. It was very hard. I also have a strong personality so it was not easy..
Can you guys do an explanation between the feud of the other church that’s it’s like LDS, I thing is church of Christ. I remember on the trip that took us in youth conference to navoo we couldn’t go into Joseph smith house because it was own by the other church. Please explain if y’all know?
I am over and over again impressed by the sharpness of hosts and guests on this program.
@Mormon Stories: it looks like a lot of the criticism of the format is from non members of the channel. IMO it looks like they are here to judge more than to listen. Also, I wonder if they know they can listen to the podcast and not worry about eye contact and camera angles?
What is disappointing about this is that fawning or defensive comments get a "heart" response from Mormon Stories while no appreciation is shown to people who offered valid input expressing empathy for the guest who has survived some horrific stuff. You're drawing a line between people who are viewing this content, in some cases for years, and those who are "members"? You're valuing those differently and MS is approving that sentiment? That's the culty part of parasocial relationships that this channel should discourage. This isn't a club for a select few, is it? I've been here a long time and can say a constant theme has always been the value of diversity of opinion. Why were John and so many others excommunicated? They challenged stuff in the hope of making the church they loved better. They stood up for marginalized people who were not being valued or heard. Based on my overall experience here, I'm appalled that you're suggesting nonmembers' opinions are less valid and getting approval from the channel for saying it. Saying that an SA survivor should not be talking to the side of someone's head while she bears her soul in front of thousands of people is not something you or this channel should be threatened by. And seriously, are you really looking up the names of people who left comments you don't like to see if they are paying for a membership so you can post that? Really??
I don't know what Rexburg is like but just a few hundred miles to the west I grew up around Mormons in the 70s and 80s and a lot of what she says does not describe them very well.
Overall they were really good neighbors and the parents were very involved in volunteering in the schools and sports. I never felt excluded or treated as lesser than by their parents.
It’s not just Mormons even in more extreme christian nominations like holiness it’s very much the same culture.
Why don’t the Mormon parents give the “sex talk” to their children?
46:29 Are you reading these questions off a teleprompter or queue cards? I really don't like how you're making eye contact with the camera when you ask a question and then turn your head to look at the guest when you've finished, it feels so impersonal and alienating to your guest. put your queue card questions off camera behind your guest so you can remain looking at and interacting with them.
I tought the same, feels staged, unreal and weird to not have eye contact with the person you're addressing
Aww u don't like it. Bless ur heart ❤️
@@Stefanonymous I guess we'll put you down as being.... for.... alienating the guest?
This was how rexburg was at ricks college in late 80s same exact. Nothing ever changed. Your story triggered many similar memories. Exact as if I told my story as well. Others as well
Loving this group! I’m only 30 min in but I am really enjoying their personalities 😊😊😊
Glad you enjoy it!
Much love to you all!!
Good for you. You knew in your core that something was off. It's so sad how so many people are easily brainwashed. I also don't understand how they want you to hide your bodies, yet have a ton of kids confusion.
So much of this sort of thing I think comes from the horrible notion that people's worth is somehow tied to their sexuality and, more specifically, virginity. Abstinence does not equal virtue!
Hey Gerardo!!!! Great job
Of course Haley and Cortney as well. Younger voices reach younger viewers. Great job
Cancel the LDS cult!
Or AT LEAST cancel their tax exempt status which enables them to amass so much money and power
I would imagine everyone listening to this already isn't a member. I'm curious how non supporters would cancel them?
@@davewhite756 A very easy way would be to get a video of a bishop interviewing a child. Post that video online and publicly ask why this predatory behavior is allowed. A bit like How to Catch a Predator'
Please call out those Bishops, that was rape and they need to be held accountable
Also the perpetrators.PRAY for You❤
I think they have a legal duty to report, right?
She is very intelligent. Very impressive young woman✔️
The k you for sharing your story. Your perspective was really insightful.
I’ve never felt so relatable to a Mormon Stories podcast before as a never Mormon.
Just a note for those leaving their religious life behind, please do not look to form other groups. Just stand on your own.🤔
Gotta love the judgmental culture in Mormonism.
It sounds like slow motion when I turn it to normal speed after listening to it at 1.5 x for awhile 😅
Great mormon story !
Re:@5:35 Dinosaurs still exist. They are in Florida. Also known as "Florida Gators"!😊
There are also monkeys & crocs in FL. I’ve been educating myself because we just moved here! 😊
Prehistoric crocks were gigantic!
@@aliciamarie9704 Monkeys? Are you sure?
@@raincadeifyyes. In Fort Lauderdale there is a troop that lives near the airport/port
I'm always a little confused about the seating arrangement on this channel because you only see one person in a shot at a time. In this case, one host is talking to the camera even though the person she's talking to is right there, probably to her right.. Idk, maybe it's just me, but I wish they would zoom out now and then out to establish where everyone is. Also, it feels impersonal for the host to be talking to the camera instead of the guest, especially considering the subject matter. Overall this was a good discussion and I give credit to Courtney for being willing to talk openly about this deeply personal stuff.
Love following Hayley on IG.
I think we need to stop saying they don’t know what they are doing. I’m sorry as someone with more experience NO. These boys and men know what they are doing. I’m so sorry about what you experienced my dear. I’m so sick of my beautiful sisters being so disrespected and used. As mothers we need to teach our sons, and we need the fathers to actually respect women as well. Unfortunately most men are predators in a way. Even looking at a woman that is the same age as your daughter or grandchild is sick. Seriously grow up and protect the feminine. ❤
💯 It sounds like "boys will be boys". Rape is more that a bump in the road on the way to manhood. It's not normal, it's a pathology.
💯
I think that this conversation excuses men (like me) too much. This was a rape and most men would take a “no” for “no” and would not have pressed when she told him upfront that she did not want sex. The problem is this excuse for men (“they were not taught” etc) makes all men, especially LDS men, seem like potential rapists. So many of us men are careful and these incidents are terrible and the exception not the rule. I agree that in matters of sexuality men are generally the aggressors - but women can be sexually aggressive too and may not get verbal consent before moving forward. I’ve met them for sure. That said - I am certainly teaching my daughters, and sons, to verbalize consent.
💯. It's a dim view of men to think that most would rape someone just because in that specific case, they don't know what consent is. Especially when it comes to high demand religions which have not shortage of "no's" that everybody's expected to adhere to, somehow though when it comes to rape, things get confusing.
I grew up in the area, went to school in Rigby. I dated mormon men and I swear that they're taught to be handsy as hell. I've dated men with tattoos, long hair and listened to goth metal and been treated so much better than a mormon guy. Hence, a good reason that I'm still single.
It's that pesky uberpatriarchy.
I need to start letting the mission guys watch these shows
Can we hear something about the trad wives?
Very xcellent young hosts!
Courtney, as I was finishing this I wanted to tell you about a 33-year old vlogger on you-tube who travels all over the world a lot in her Odysey camper and alone. She is Polish, educated in the United Kingdom.
she has toured in this country but in the Western states, but she doesn't like big cities. On one of her posts, she tells her followers, over a million, that she doesn't want kids. She was married and divorced for the same reason kind of as you. She is not LDS but was raised Christian but now does her own thing. Her sex life seems to similar to yours. She has decided to not have relationships for a year. If you have time, you might want to look up Eva Zu Beck. I think you and she might have a lot in common and you might get some pointers on navigating this life.
And this pushing isn't just in the Church. Patriarchy is a problem all over the world but mostly with religions that are based on the Bible like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Mormonism. I had lots of sex with one girl who was active when I met her. I loved how much we did it, but then I joined the Church and was put on a guilt trip for what I had learned from Playboy Magazine, and not realizing that what I did in my bedroom was my business and not that of a Mormon prophet.
Loved this episode but have to admit the constant texting and dinging was super annoying and distracting. I’d suggest turning personal phones on silent during podcasts.
I thought we eliminated that. Can you please share time codes?
Yes. The constant text messaging phone sounds were very distracting. Please mute your cell phones in future interviews or at least give a warning at the beginning that there will be a lot of distractions.
@@mormonstories it was pretty constant throughout the whole episode
@@jetlink5123 correct. Unfortunately there were too many to count. I haven’t noticed it as much on any other episodes though.
Agreed! Wish they had cough buttons too. Not because anyone coughed, but someone kept glugging a drink over the microphone.
I listen to the podcast, so I don't have the video to help distract me from all the extra sounds. I gave up and didn't finish the episode.
Lo hiciste muy bien Gerardo!
This makes me so angry! So it's the girls fault that the guy has no self control. Other people go to church in shorts & tank tops. Can you believe it?And they 26:13 have less incidents of child abuse & rape
Hailey did a fabulous job!
Omfg all I can say is this cult is not he most damaging thing ever to do to a child growing up in a Mormon cult !!!
I very much disagree that boys/men aren’t told or don’t know what “no” means. He was most definitely a predator and took advantage of you being 17. There is no grace for him.
I’m sorry that happened to you.
I think this is mostly everyone’s first time story though.
I think Mormon Stories could be a great show to have this discussion with non-Mormons on the show to get both sides of the story of everyone from different worlds having the same story and discussing the whys.
Lo hiciste muy bien Gerardo
¡De acuerdo!
I got a DUI In rexburg. My experience was really difficult but thankfully the judge was an elderly guy and actually reminded me of a bishop. Maybe he was. 18 months of probation and a bunch of community service. I live in Pocatello so did my probation here. The probation officer in rexburg completely ignored me for 18 months. Anyway. I don’t go back to Rexburg anymore. 😊
I hope you don't DUI anymore either 😂
Interesting. My father was a pastor in an evangelical church and these people were as restrictive and critical of us, if not more. I didn't know anything about sex until after high school. My parents were not this way but the church ladies were huge gossips.
A great many of these issues exist in all Christian purity cultures. LDS sure take it to the nth degree
Thank you ladies for your bravery. I commend you. That aside, I'd just like to say that I found it off putting how Hayley looked down the camera when speaking to Courtney about their shared traumatic experiences. Especially during her heartfelt apologies that she issued, without turning to look at Courtney. It came off as insincere and rehearsed. I give this feedback in the hope that it may be constructive for your career and interviewing skills going forward.
Totally agree here, I feel Hailey is sincere & really love her content and conversations. But it was noticeable and very very slightly off putting looking directly into the camera instead of facing the person your talking to
Yeah, I left a similar comment. I thought it might be because she's used to formats where she's online and not in the same room with the people she's talking to. But asking for details of a rape experience while not even looking at her to see how it's landing...
John used to do this too (look into the camera rather than at the guests) until people mentioned it, so it's not always intuitive. She would probably make that change going forward.
There are OTC birth control pills available and your pharmacist can prescribe them in some states (such as Arizona if they are trained). New generic plan b pills are now in the ballpark of $15
There is currently an option in some places for over the counter progesterone only hormonal contraception. With hormonal birth control that’s combined with estrogen I can see why that is more regulated because there are a lot of conditions that that contraception can cause negative side effects with and are contraindicated. So a thorough medical history is important for those and more research might be needed to see if that history can be taken by a pharmacist or can be done by touch screen in an accurate manner.
interesting how the bishops response is to blame and seek excuse rather to comfort and be an open ear to listen and encourage to seek out what is really at heart like was the interaction consensual and how to navigate the choices and consequences for both parties involved aka boundaries
They asked me who the other person was. Like three years ago but I was much older and they were my age so possibly in leadership. They wanted to inform the other person's bishop.
Why can no one else originally come up with the concept that god can create earth with a backstory? He could have literally created the world this morning yet you think you existed before that because you were made with memories. You limit God by saying he had to have started with the big bang.
Is God limited by time? Could he not have his own time? Could he not create the universes past, present, and future all at once?
Ok, yes but here's a trivial question - who is messaging during this episode? it was really distracting.
Worst 2c ever on my part.
Can you share the time code?
I didn’t notice this at all. I saw and heard the three of them listening well and responding thoughtfully to each other. (I’m a pre smart phone dinosaur, but I have gotten used to the quick glance at devices. There was a time 20 years ago that it would have annoyed me.)
Taught! Both male and female to walk away and stop! Boundaries and consent!
I wish the computer and phone alerts would be silenced before recording begins. Listeners look at THEIR phone or computer with every alart. I finally turned this one off because ot was so distracting. It is surprising that MS is coming up on 2000 episodes yet there are aspects that are still so unprofessional.
I grew up in Rexburg. I'm not Mormon but that collet seems chill and hot women
From Rexburg to Orem, how depressing.
Oh ya it should be addressed, why are grown men allowed to talk to teenage girls about their sex life? This is not ok. Ive heard now they can have someone present with them so the they're not alone. But still, these conversations are creepy and shouldn't even be happening. A girl should be able to talk to another female not a man about these things. Either way Mormonism invades privacy on all levels.
Why do you have to take 2 LDS members fishing with you? If you just take one he will drink all your beer
What no one is connecting here is that the lack of sexual education and what are normal desires as human beings is a problem on both sides. When girls are friendly it’s misinterpreted as flirting or leading the guy on. She hasn’t been taught what her actions are doing or implying to the males. The males are thinking oh this chick is in to me, and biologically it’s not an easy shut off for men. So she’s going to feel used and he’s going to be demonized.
Second, another connection to this piece is that when individuals who have a history of being abused or neglected at home, return to the person they were intimate with, it’s because there some kind of emotional connection trade off because someone is giving them the gift of time.
Third point is that because there isn’t education (many members believe that sex ed belongs at home and not in schools but it’s not genuinely discussed at home. So this lack of education places individuals in a vulnerable situation that when they’re feeling coerced into sexual activity they begin the victim mode mentality. Which could be avoided by knowing upfront the biological differences between men and women and how each are more vulnerable throughout sexual relationships.
Fourth point is that there’s no question that religious overreach into personal wearing of clothes and garments does do harm both ways. It’s absolutely not fair to guys to be continually exposed to overly skimpy outfits…my saying that doesn’t excuse men for not respecting boundaries of asking and the word no. It’s also damning for women to grow up so covered up and body shamed that they don’t feel beautiful about themselves. Garments don’t help with sexual activity or connectivity in the bedroom. Rather it interferes with the most important part of a covenant relationship.
Courtney I think we might be related lol. Do you have family in Tooele?
We are taught to guard your virginity like would gaurd your life. Then when you loose your virginity. You feel tainted dirty,used. I lost my virginity to the bishops son. After that,he was on to his next supply,& l really mean that.
I asked my TBM seminary teacher uncle when I was an adult “what about the dinosaurs” 8:04 and he laughed and said it was just a mistake that god made!!?!?!! God makes mistakes?? 😂
BYU Idaho admits 16-year-olds without high school diplomas.
Easier to "teach"
Imagine these folks going to ASU and being part of the party scene in tempe. And she said dinosaurs did her in Hahahahaha John needs to up his game..