I'm really at awe. Of course with what you've captured, but also how AgX does its transform. It's brilliant! It doesn't look like some attempt at making digital imagery look like film, instead I seriously can't tell that this *isn't* shot on film. Which I suppose goes to show how well the behaviour of film has been reproduced here. (Lack of film grain of course notwithstanding) I'm glad you made a showcase for this! You're the only one I've found on TH-cam showing how AgX treats photography, rather than some CG examples.
Thank you for the kind words! It's truly fascinating how we associated broken colour with "digital" and normal, intuitive imagery with "filmic". It's as if digital has become a caricature of itself, and will soon evolve into a 'fun retro-digital filter' on the popular social media apps. I'm glad you found this video useful, I'm very keen to try out new stuff that help us form better images. Exciting times!
@@pedrorrodriguez1 For video, I use Olive (olivevideoeditor.org/020.php). It supports OCIOv2 and is in very active development. For photos I still use Blender with a giant node setup to make developing easier. But I can't really share it just yet, because it requires some edits to be made to the OCIO config.
@@StudioPetrikas how do you set it up for olive? I assume you copy paste the config files into some folder? For blender did you just follow the instructions to set it up, or did you tweak other things beside your node tree?
Hi, thanks to share your work on AgX. What is the slog2 to sRGB LUT you are using? wouldn't be more interesting to compare AgX to some resolve CST with tone mapping and gamut compression? Or even to Sony LC709 LUT (at the end of the pipeline) which is made for post-production?
I think I used an S-Log2 to sRGB OCIO transform, not a LUT per se. (Can't remember now) There are many ways to achieve a wanted result, but my goal was to directly compare results after a basic grade node and a transform. (Ease of use and simple demo of AgX robustness) *Matching* results is not a priority for me, so comparing a complex grade to a complex grade is pretty much useless.
Great video! Do you know if AGX can be used in Resolve or if that’s coming in the future? I shoot 10bit V-Log on my Panasonic S5 and find it difficult to get natural looking colours out of it with film emulations, but this seems like a much better starting point for grading.
I'm actually doing most of my editing work in Resolve, but unfortunately, it's difficult to make AgX work right now. Possible through the Fusion tab, but you would need a custom OCIO transform for your V-Log, AND do the grading in the Fusion tab. Pain in the backside! Let's hope somebody creates an ODT, so it's easier to use with Resolve.
@@StudioPetrikas I see, thanks for the reply! So if I’m using AGX in Blender instead, would it accept any log file or would I still need an OCIO transform for my V-Log?
@@hakan5534 You'll need the transform. Unless you have a different way to convert your V-Log to Linear rec.709. This would give you most flexibility. You can, of course do a V-Log to sRGB conversion and then use AgX (Blender will do the conversion to linear), but it will heavily limit how much grading you can do, as you basically discard the whole benefit of Log footage.
The process of conversion is a pain right now, but AgX is evolving very quickly. What I had to do to get this working: 1. Get the S-Log2 to Linear conversion .spi1d file from ACES repository 2. Generate an S-Gamut to Rec.709 conversion matrix 3. Create a new ! entry in the OCIO config. 4. Use any OCIOv2-enabled software to convert my footage (Blender or Olive, etc.) This will get easier once enough people start asking questions!
@@StudioPetrikas Hello ! Would this work ? : 1. Use ACES to go from S-log2 with r709 gamut or other to linear gamma r709 gamut 2. Go from linear to sRGB using the AgX OCIO config ?
@@requa3314 Sounds like it should work. However, you can "borrow" the S-Log2/r709 colour space from ACES OCIO config: github.com/colour-science/OpenColorIO-Configs/blob/0857366ee279bd0e091c0b4f593fc17bc9687cb1/aces_1.2/config.ocio#L1147C1-L1147C1 Don't forget to copy the spi1d file, and remove the matrix transform (since we're going from rec709 to rec709, all we need to do is "unlog"). So you can directly go from SLog2/r709 to AgX with one OCIO config.
I like it as well! Well, since you asked, here it is: 1. Get the F-Log to Linear conversion somewhere off the internet (github.com/ayoburgess/fujifilm_flog_ocio) 2. Generate an F-Log Gamut to REC.709 gamut matrix. (Use this calculator color.support/colorspacecalculator.html; Use this datasheet for input values: dl.fujifilm-x.com/support/lut/F-Log_DataSheet_E_Ver.1.0.pdf) 3. Append the AgX OCIO config with your new colour space. It will look something like - ! name: flog family: Fujifilm equalitygroup: "" bitdepth: 32f description: | Fujifilm F-Log color space isdata: false allocation: uniform allocationvars: [0, 1] to_reference: ! children: - ! {src: flog_to_linear.cube, interpolation: linear} - ! {matrix: [1.660491, -0.587641, -0.072850, 0, -0.124550, 1.132900, -0.008349, 0, -0.018151, -0.100579, 1.118730, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1]} 4. Open your F-Log footage in any OCIOv2 enabled software (Blender, Olive, etc.). Load your newly edited AgX config. 5. Select input Colour Space 'flog' and destination as AgX I understand this sounds like a pain, but once you familiarise yourself with OCIO (OpenColorIO), it's really not too much hassle.
The rgb looks better. What was the point here? You can get a smooth controls with davinci Wide Gamut or Aces. Also what is the AGX transfer function? Why would you compare a seemingly film look to srgb? Why not 1886?
1. Not "rgb". RGB is a colour model, "sRGB" is the colour space. 2. It objectively produces worse results when pushed. "Looks better" means nothing here. 3. The point was to display how robust AgX is and how it resists hue shifts, and behaves more naturally when performing grading on 8-bit S-Log2 footage, compared to regular S-Log2/SGammut to sRGB workflow. 4. "Smooth controls"? Yes, there are many different colour-grading software. ACES has a lot of problems. Not sure how these are related to the video, it seems that you've just listed a few catchphrases you've caught somewhere. 5. You call it "film look" just because it does not have the gaudy, broken, hue-shift-ridden, garbage-pile digital look, that is usually produced by all the methods you mentioned in your comment. There's nothing innately film-like about the footage, except that it just doesn't contain "broken", shifted colour. If you actually want information, I suggest taking a step down and starting at a lower point of entry. I suggest my "Fixing broken digital photography with "Filmic". Part 1" video, that works as an entry in seeing problems with digital colour: th-cam.com/video/bTQMKvpDTYU/w-d-xo.html
I can only do 4K 25fps, unfortunately. Shooting 1080p 50fps gives me some room to do some handheld shots, as well as giving the videos a bit of a dreamy look.
@@StudioPetrikas I see. I think it’s worth shooting in 4K for tripod shots. And upscalinf any 1080 to 4K. It will make things look better - TH-cam compression murders 1080p.
Yes! I've heard that upscaled 1080p footage to 4K will look better at 1080p on TH-cam, and now you confirmed it. Do you know any good ways to upscale it?
@@StudioPetrikas I think most video editors will do a fine job upscaling, just use a 4K timeline/project. If it doesn’t look soft, it’s probably alright. Edit: I’m not sure it will necessarily look better when viewed at 1080p on TH-cam, but it definitely looks better when watched in 4K. It’s a crap solution to reduce the impact of compression.
>"So you figured out how to process 709 primaries with AgX!?" That's a scary question. "AgX Base" takes linear 709 primaries, no? From the OCIO config: - ! {src: Linear BT.709, dst: AgX Base} All shots were made with Super35 mode. Better results, but not a full-frame projection, sadly.
@@IliaSibiryakov no, the camera has a setting that allows me to choose the gamut. OCIO "input" config is just "unlog" and that's it. No Matrix transform needed.
I'm really at awe. Of course with what you've captured, but also how AgX does its transform. It's brilliant!
It doesn't look like some attempt at making digital imagery look like film, instead I seriously can't tell that this *isn't* shot on film. Which I suppose goes to show how well the behaviour of film has been reproduced here. (Lack of film grain of course notwithstanding)
I'm glad you made a showcase for this! You're the only one I've found on TH-cam showing how AgX treats photography, rather than some CG examples.
Thank you for the kind words! It's truly fascinating how we associated broken colour with "digital" and normal, intuitive imagery with "filmic". It's as if digital has become a caricature of itself, and will soon evolve into a 'fun retro-digital filter' on the popular social media apps. I'm glad you found this video useful, I'm very keen to try out new stuff that help us form better images. Exciting times!
@@StudioPetrikas this
Loved your darktable tutorials, and this is also very interesting. Look forward to more videos on agx!
Yes, this is slightly off-topic, but also kind of on-topic, haha
Yup. Your teaser on image editing on blender is also interesting. That application is such a Swiss army knife. It can do so much stuff!
What's your work for editing pictures and videos with agx? Is it all done in blender?
@@pedrorrodriguez1 For video, I use Olive (olivevideoeditor.org/020.php). It supports OCIOv2 and is in very active development.
For photos I still use Blender with a giant node setup to make developing easier. But I can't really share it just yet, because it requires some edits to be made to the OCIO config.
@@StudioPetrikas how do you set it up for olive? I assume you copy paste the config files into some folder? For blender did you just follow the instructions to set it up, or did you tweak other things beside your node tree?
Hi, thanks to share your work on AgX.
What is the slog2 to sRGB LUT you are using? wouldn't be more interesting to compare AgX to some resolve CST with tone mapping and gamut compression? Or even to Sony LC709 LUT (at the end of the pipeline) which is made for post-production?
I think I used an S-Log2 to sRGB OCIO transform, not a LUT per se. (Can't remember now)
There are many ways to achieve a wanted result, but my goal was to directly compare results after a basic grade node and a transform. (Ease of use and simple demo of AgX robustness)
*Matching* results is not a priority for me, so comparing a complex grade to a complex grade is pretty much useless.
Great video! Do you know if AGX can be used in Resolve or if that’s coming in the future? I shoot 10bit V-Log on my Panasonic S5 and find it difficult to get natural looking colours out of it with film emulations, but this seems like a much better starting point for grading.
I'm actually doing most of my editing work in Resolve, but unfortunately, it's difficult to make AgX work right now. Possible through the Fusion tab, but you would need a custom OCIO transform for your V-Log, AND do the grading in the Fusion tab. Pain in the backside!
Let's hope somebody creates an ODT, so it's easier to use with Resolve.
@@StudioPetrikas I see, thanks for the reply! So if I’m using AGX in Blender instead, would it accept any log file or would I still need an OCIO transform for my V-Log?
@@hakan5534 You'll need the transform. Unless you have a different way to convert your V-Log to Linear rec.709. This would give you most flexibility.
You can, of course do a V-Log to sRGB conversion and then use AgX (Blender will do the conversion to linear), but it will heavily limit how much grading you can do, as you basically discard the whole benefit of Log footage.
Watch this developer; they're making an AgX DCTL for Resolve. github.com/JuanPabloZambrano
That''s awesome! Could you tell more about the process of convertation? Is it the same as ACES?
The process of conversion is a pain right now, but AgX is evolving very quickly.
What I had to do to get this working:
1. Get the S-Log2 to Linear conversion .spi1d file from ACES repository
2. Generate an S-Gamut to Rec.709 conversion matrix
3. Create a new ! entry in the OCIO config.
4. Use any OCIOv2-enabled software to convert my footage (Blender or Olive, etc.)
This will get easier once enough people start asking questions!
@@StudioPetrikas Thank you! I started using AgX in Blender for 3D and want to try it with f-log
@@StudioPetrikas Hello ! Would this work ? :
1. Use ACES to go from S-log2 with r709 gamut or other to linear gamma r709 gamut
2. Go from linear to sRGB using the AgX OCIO config ?
@@requa3314 Sounds like it should work.
However, you can "borrow" the S-Log2/r709 colour space from ACES OCIO config:
github.com/colour-science/OpenColorIO-Configs/blob/0857366ee279bd0e091c0b4f593fc17bc9687cb1/aces_1.2/config.ocio#L1147C1-L1147C1
Don't forget to copy the spi1d file, and remove the matrix transform (since we're going from rec709 to rec709, all we need to do is "unlog").
So you can directly go from SLog2/r709 to AgX with one OCIO config.
@@StudioPetrikas I see ! Thank you very much for the quick answer !
The footage looks awesome. Would love to know your process of converting f-log to agx.
I like it as well!
Well, since you asked, here it is:
1. Get the F-Log to Linear conversion somewhere off the internet (github.com/ayoburgess/fujifilm_flog_ocio)
2. Generate an F-Log Gamut to REC.709 gamut matrix. (Use this calculator color.support/colorspacecalculator.html; Use this datasheet for input values: dl.fujifilm-x.com/support/lut/F-Log_DataSheet_E_Ver.1.0.pdf)
3. Append the AgX OCIO config with your new colour space. It will look something like
- !
name: flog
family: Fujifilm
equalitygroup: ""
bitdepth: 32f
description: |
Fujifilm F-Log color space
isdata: false
allocation: uniform
allocationvars: [0, 1]
to_reference: !
children:
- ! {src: flog_to_linear.cube, interpolation: linear}
- ! {matrix: [1.660491, -0.587641, -0.072850, 0, -0.124550, 1.132900, -0.008349, 0, -0.018151, -0.100579, 1.118730, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1]}
4. Open your F-Log footage in any OCIOv2 enabled software (Blender, Olive, etc.). Load your newly edited AgX config.
5. Select input Colour Space 'flog' and destination as AgX
I understand this sounds like a pain, but once you familiarise yourself with OCIO (OpenColorIO), it's really not too much hassle.
The rgb looks better. What was the point here? You can get a smooth controls with davinci Wide Gamut or Aces. Also what is the AGX transfer function? Why would you compare a seemingly film look to srgb? Why not 1886?
1. Not "rgb". RGB is a colour model, "sRGB" is the colour space.
2. It objectively produces worse results when pushed. "Looks better" means nothing here.
3. The point was to display how robust AgX is and how it resists hue shifts, and behaves more naturally when performing grading on 8-bit S-Log2 footage, compared to regular S-Log2/SGammut to sRGB workflow.
4. "Smooth controls"? Yes, there are many different colour-grading software. ACES has a lot of problems. Not sure how these are related to the video, it seems that you've just listed a few catchphrases you've caught somewhere.
5. You call it "film look" just because it does not have the gaudy, broken, hue-shift-ridden, garbage-pile digital look, that is usually produced by all the methods you mentioned in your comment. There's nothing innately film-like about the footage, except that it just doesn't contain "broken", shifted colour.
If you actually want information, I suggest taking a step down and starting at a lower point of entry.
I suggest my "Fixing broken digital photography with "Filmic". Part 1" video, that works as an entry in seeing problems with digital colour: th-cam.com/video/bTQMKvpDTYU/w-d-xo.html
Also upload in 4K, would be so beautiful.
I can only do 4K 25fps, unfortunately.
Shooting 1080p 50fps gives me some room to do some handheld shots, as well as giving the videos a bit of a dreamy look.
@@StudioPetrikas I see. I think it’s worth shooting in 4K for tripod shots. And upscalinf any 1080 to 4K. It will make things look better - TH-cam compression murders 1080p.
Yes! I've heard that upscaled 1080p footage to 4K will look better at 1080p on TH-cam, and now you confirmed it.
Do you know any good ways to upscale it?
@@StudioPetrikas I think most video editors will do a fine job upscaling, just use a 4K timeline/project. If it doesn’t look soft, it’s probably alright.
Edit: I’m not sure it will necessarily look better when viewed at 1080p on TH-cam, but it definitely looks better when watched in 4K. It’s a crap solution to reduce the impact of compression.
So you figured out how to process 709 primaries with AgX!?
Are you shooting full frame now?
>"So you figured out how to process 709 primaries with AgX!?"
That's a scary question. "AgX Base" takes linear 709 primaries, no? From the OCIO config:
- ! {src: Linear BT.709, dst: AgX Base}
All shots were made with Super35 mode. Better results, but not a full-frame projection, sadly.
@@StudioPetrikas I mean you figured out an OCIO config that allows you to shoot rec709 on the camera instead of S gamut?
@@IliaSibiryakov no, the camera has a setting that allows me to choose the gamut.
OCIO "input" config is just "unlog" and that's it. No Matrix transform needed.
@@StudioPetrikas I see. Nice and simple.
@@StudioPetrikas I’d be curious to see how this setup handles shooting under blue LED light!