"Good intentions" is not what happened in Chinatown... Jake BROKE HIS BALLS to save them...KNOWING he could be killed at any point....THAT IS REAL HEROISM...AND he was looking at redeeming his own past ... where he got crushed by crooks in the past and believed the MOTHERF*CKERS could not be beaten... But... as this insanity developed...he ALMOST could not resist becoming involved in "the good fight" again.... Unable to remember his post police Dept cynicism...JUST SUDDENLY ..LIKE A CAT SEEING RAT...RESPONDS WITH INSTINCT NOT RATIONALITY...
Well, now I have to see it again-for the fourteenth time. No movie has ever come close to moving me the way Chinatown has. Nothing even begins to compare.
1:45 Lovely words about the Goldsmith score. Agreed this is his finest work. I saw this film twice in a first run theater and the score is so haunting, such an exquisite part of the film that I couldn't quite hum it after leaving. "The solo trumpet has such a mournful, lonely quality..." perfectly stated!
First soundtrack I ever bought - I was 15. I saw it on Oscar night and when Towne won later on, watching it at home I commented as he went down the aisle "Oh, that's that music that I liked!"
Thank you for posting this. I saw Chinatown in 1974 on its first night in theaters, before the public knew anything about it, and maybe before reviews had come out. I'll never forget seeing this for the first time, misreading clues along with Gittes, and completely shocked by Evelyn's secret and the ending. It took several minutes to work out that Katherine was from a father/daughter rape, so unusual was incest as a theme in a mainstream film at that time. One week before, I watched the trailer and felt little anticipation. I thought, oh Jack Nicholson is doing his Bogart imitation in a period piece movie. But, that homage set up the audience to be beguiled right up to the denoument. In Philip Marlowe's universe, the good guy got the girl, wrongs were righted, the bad guys got punished, and the world remained right side up. Or so we thought. I was hoping that Towne would mention the film location for Gittes' drive through the avocado or orange grove, being ambushed, and then being rescued by Evelyn. It's set in the western San Fernando Valley, but the only intact ranch from 90 years ago, that I know of, is the Orcutt Ranch on Roscoe Blvd. in what is now West Hills or Chatsworth. Does anyone know where that sequence was actually filmed? Thanks.
According to the IMDB, that scene in the orange grove is filmed at Walter Brennan's old ranch in Moorpark, CA on Sunset Valley Drive. I think Brennan was alive at the time.
"In Philip Marlowe's universe, the good guy got the girl, wrongs were righted, the bad guys got punished, and the world remained right side up." - Is that so? Tragic endings were one of the main characteristics of film noirs. The Chinatown ending is a classic film noir ending and was nothing new in 1974. Actually, many mainstream movies back then didn't have a happy ending.
@@jefdarcyWhile tragic endings occur in classic film noir, they do not occur in the Phillip Marlowe film adaptations in the 1940s (or 1950s, if they exist). Nevertheless, Chinatown is clearly a revisionist detective film, much like The Long Goodbye (1973).
Polanski's framing has always seemed natural, definitely idiosyncratic, but right to me. Actually, in anamorphic, with its numerous technical challenges, and especially this era, Polanski's framing is phenomenal.
Glad everyone knows Fincher enough to know that this is slightly out of character for him, to be such a dork in front of Robert Towne. Count the amount of times he says something is great or perfect. Can we all also agree that this is one of the top tier film commentaries of all time?
I've noticed several online references to Nicholson's character, J.J."Jake" Gittes as a "seedy" PI. Jake dresses pretty natty for a seedy PI. Although people dressed more formally in the '30's, Gittes is obvious a cut above with cream colored suits that have split panels in the back, cigarette holder, and his monogram on his pajamas and shirts. Also, his office is pretty well appointed (newly installed wooden blinds) and he is making enough (in the Depression) to have a secretary and two other investigators...I'd say he is of a higher class of investigator...also coming out of the police and doing special investigative work for the D.A.(a point his friend back in the police force, Lt. Escobar makes note of: "You've done well by yourself.") And notice the comparison to the detectives grey suit (especially Escobar's wing man Loach) outfits and Jakes threads. All-in-all, hardly a cheap dick gumshoe flatfoot with tabacco stains on his teeth, tomato stains on his shirt and tie, thin shoe leather, and a shiny backside on his britches.
It's wonderful to listen to Towne's reminiscences of his own Los Angeles history and upbringing as well as his experiences writing Chinatown as well as during the production of the film. The serendipitous and felicitous combination of a superb script by a supremely talented and skilled writer, A-list director, actors and production designer, plus the at-once seedy, glamorous and depraved setting of early Los Angeles, (not much changed, may I add) superbly rendered, has not been equaled since. Indeed, Chinatown is the first time this particular synastry has been achieved on film since Casablanca, with the possible exception of The Godfather.
I had to cue up another streaming site with this one but it was worth it. Like a masterclass private screening. Now lets head over to The Ivy for a late supper fellas. I hear they've got stone crabs as a special!
One of my favorite movies ever. BEAUTIFULLY done and the score is fantastic. Acting is spot-on and screenplay is superb. It captures a time and place and events. Wishing Roman Polanski was able to still make movies in this country. He has exceptional talent.
In the US, if you only have the original Paramount Home Entertainment version, or only the Paramount Collector's edition of this film on DVD than you don't have this commentary track. It's only on the Paramount 2-disc CENTENNIAL edition. And if you don't have any other edition from another country you don't have this soundtrack. So if all you have is a version on DVD without the commentary, you can rip the DVD to your computer and then download this commentary track as an audio file. Then you can play BOTH in VLC Media Player simultaneously and switch between the commentary or just regular film audio. Film> Advanced Open File> Choose the Chinatown video file as the movie then check the "Play another media synchronously" box to select this audio track!
Jerry Goldsmith was modeling his solo trumpet theme after Copeland's "Quiet City" solo trumpet, to show contrast in depicting a not quiet LA in the story. Some of Fincher's comments are insightful, but I'd rather have heard Towne speak a lot. My favorite movie of all time. I can recite the script verbatim from Curly's moaning to "Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown." Thanks so much for posting.
It's a masterpiece. Artists are not necessarily the best interpreters of their own creations. Psychoanalytic theory suggests that the artistic process involves the artist's unconscious.
If you appreciate this film, this commentary is very insightful. One of THE great films of 20th Century American film. 2:04:25: “…Chinatown is not a place you can actually go to, 'cause it's a state of mind.”
The film is truly superb and this would have been nicer if we had heard more from Robert Towne, although he does talk quite a bit about Chinatown in his long interview with the Writers Guild, which you can find on TH-cam. This is mostly Fincher gushing on and on about how much he loves everything, but it does serve to illustrate the craftsmanship of filmmaking and the finer points of creating movie magic. The tragedy of filmmaking today is that none of the talentless corporate entity bureaucrats that produce films would ever make a movie like this. The only ideas they can come up with are that the world needs more cartoon movies. Yawn.
I didn't know this commentary existed. Thank you for posting it. The great thing (among others) about the script is that it all seems so complicated for so long and then the revelation allows all the elements of the plot to fall into place. You wouldn't have to see 'Chinatown' again to understand the plot, but you could equally watch it again to see how it was all achieved. I also really like that as smart and street-wise Gittes is, he still keeps putting the pieces together and coming to the wrong conclusions (understandably), or miscalculating the final confrontation.
***** Ah, Gittes keeps missing his points because he betrayed himself as the discreet detective and became her lover...the same mistake he made in Chinatown ... he would have found the glasses the first time if he wan't overcome by his sexual desire for the woman, his hermatia; the ending is fantastic as it works through everyone's POV based upon the information and judgements they make about the situation...everyone was wrong and the bad guy gets away with the girl...albeit his daughter...which raises a lot of questions as a twist. I speak about the screenplay...they didn't depict the original ending of the screenplay in the film.
Linda Burdick Those are very interesting points. I did read that the Towne script ended with Evelyn and Catherine being driven to Mexico and Cross being frustrated on that point at least.
***** Gittes wants to be the hero but couldn't become one; he oversteps his limits and created a situation where he wan't helping her by just serving his own inner need because he is jealous of Escobar. His behavior is a repeat of what they previously experienced in Chinatown and he has not learned anything from it.
***** I respectfully disagree as Gittes' inner motivations trump the broken light/vision allegory within film analysis. The screenwriter proves his character arc doesn't grow. He can see, and it is determined within the first five pages of the script that Gittes values the discreet ways he has vision in a superior way that others do not. Towne didn't intend for this allegory you speak about. he even says that, so hhis thoughts are also primarily upon Gittes' inner and outer motivations.
***** He is not a hero, but wants that. He fails because once again, he chose it...that's the difference. The glasses etc serve as a metaphor if you so choose, as you like, the metaphor doesn't make him choose anything. It's not a lack of vision, it's pride etc. an inner conflict, a flaw; I can't use metaphors to describe and write in a protagonists actions and choices as a screenwriter. He acts, he does, he chooses, or not. His inner conflict and flaw is not lack of vision. There is no such thing as that for a hermatia, it's one of the seven deadly sins and actions rooted within them. Jealousy, lust, and pride rule this guy and he needs to overcome those inner conflicts in order to become the hero.He does not overcome any of them. I hope this clarifies the point of dinstinction between the two.
I'm 74 and in the '50s-'65 my folks and I would go the pt fermin park . I got a coke from walkers many times . Later in my 20s-40s also . The fact that it is in my fav movie just makes it sweeter 👍 p.s. We would scramble down to the rocky shore and sometimes divers were bringing up abalone and my dad would buy 3 or 4 . Love them ❤
The film is amazing. I remember being a little kid and hearing adults talk about it occasionally, and cryptically reference the famous, "Forget it, Jake...." line at the end. At that age of course I was like, "Why the hell do they care so much about this movie," ya know, kinda one of those movies with a lot of subtlety, slow build-up, tons of scenes of just dialogue, not a whole lot of showy/sensational scenes, so not something little kids usually "get." Hell, I know plenty of adults who wouldn't be able to sit through it without getting bored (which, believe me, is a mark against those people, not the film). Now it's hands-down one of my all-time favorite films, definitely a "desert island pick."
Fantastic commentaries, i just realised how Jack Nicholson voice and Johnny Depp voice in the ninth gate sound similar, now i can't help but imagining John Huston in the mumbo jumbo scene...🤣The nine gates of the kingdom of Chinatown... Being french the name Gittes makes me think of "get this" maybe it was intended like that.What a great movie...and script
I'm listening and am at the eating scene commentary. I find it interesting what Fincher (who I don't find in the least bit pretentious) says about eating in Hollywood movies. I was of the same opinion myself. It's so different than what you see in asian movies or tv dramas, To be honest, I'm not always quiet sure who is talking. To me, their voices are quiet similar. But I'm guessing from the comments, it's mostly Fincher. Before this, I listened to the point blank commentary, between Boorman and Soderbergh which is more two sided.
Francis Ford Coppola includes eating scenes in all his Godfather movies, and cooking scenes too. He makes a point of doing so, and to great effect. (See his lengthy Godfather commentaries, also on TH-cam.). So why Fincher carries on so about filmmakers "avoiding" eating scenes is peculiar. I'm not sure it's true. There's a memorable restaurant scene in "When Harry Met Sally" - remember "I'll have what she's having".?? -As a matter fact more than one eating scene in that film. Several eating moments in Miss Congeniality." A great many eating scenes/dinner parties over the course of Downton Abbey. More than one in "The English Patient." Westerns frequently have chuck wagon scenes. I could go on. Of course the moronic cartoon character movies Hollywood comes out with these days don't have eating scenes - cartoon characters don't eat.
Have been binge-watching analyses of 'Chinatown' but this takes the biscuit. It's fantastic! Everyone else bangs on about Gittes's vanity and his wanting to be a hero, the latter which for some reason I found unconvincing. And then here I get the real reason. He pursues the matter because he's pissed off at getting his nose slashed, and wants revenge (43:25). Of course, as obvious as the nose on one's face (pun intended), except I hadn't thought of it.
Surprising to hear Fincher say he's never been able to find Ida's bungalow court and he assumed it was long gone, because the address is on IMDB, and I've googled it and used the maps function, toggling up and down the street. It's there, and looks the same pretty much although the surrounding blocks are quite changed. I wish I knew how to contact him to let him know how easily he could find it.
Remember when you'd go to Blockbuster & rent or buy a movie that had tons of special features including commentaries from the filmmakers? Who are the morons who decided they would rather stream a movie on their phone? I want names!!
FYI, Fincher, it is not unusual for the TACK room on a wealthy man's ranch to have seating, such as chairs or a loveseat. Riders like to sit and relax with friends when they may be in dusty clothes or muddy boots after riding. Fincher thinks with such a pedestrian, in-the-box mind. How he ever got in the film business is astounding.
Fincher is a man who clearly has only a passing interest or even acquaintance with history of any kind - particully the history of Los Angeles. A zanjero was the man who managed the "zanjas," the acequias (ditches) that carried water to the fields and farmlands. The zanjero was an important figure in city government - more important than a mayor actually Towne is not quite technically correct - the zanjero was not a "water carrier." The zanjero managed the distribution of water, so farmers' livelihoods depended on the decisions of the zanjero. Mulwray, in the story.
Fincher's lack of familiarity with upper class life is all over his remarks. He often sounds like some goofus from the sticks. As is his ignorance of history or anything that happened before he was born.
Looking back , there is no way Chinatown could not be made today. The movie is about water and today's studio woud ask why not it be about drugs or gambling or prositution to which I'd reply those three things you mention does not affect everyone where water effects all of us. Above all, Rober Evens was both the producer and ran Paramount, so there was no buffer. Today, every studio clown would chop throught the script with a billion revisions. For me, Chinatown is the golden standard of the last great period of films, the ealy 1970s.
When Jack and Faye were filming the “slap” scene Faye felt that to make it more authentic Jack should actually slap her. So that’s the way they filmed it.
The more you know of writers and actors, the more you realize, how little they actually invented. John Huston, for example, was just barely more moral than his character. The Hollywood stories of his willfulness and self-indulgence are legendary.
Great commentary but why on Earth at 54:00 do they say “painting out Morgan Freeman’s name”? Check it out for yourself - it’s bizarre and I’d really like to know why Morgan Freeman is mentioned here.
Literally the very start. Pressing play on both video/audio at the exact same time would be ideal. By about 2:55 you can hear just the movie in this commentary track and you'll see how the audio matches up with the actors speaking.
It's a helluva lot more about Robert Towne than David Fincher since Towne did the screenplay. Since Polanski was of course unavailable Towne is the next best resource. He was there!
1:37:26 Fincher must be pretty stupid... He says he has never been able to find the Ida Sessions bungalow but the house is at THE EXACT ADDRESS that is given to Gittes over the phone!!
@@al1976-v7m He says that it might have been torn down. If he knows the address then he'll be able to find out if the house is still there. What he says makes no sense.
I was almost murdered by mob owned NOPD ...I was being stalked by them at the time I first saw this movie on TV.....I WAS STUNNED...I really identified with Jake and KNEW I had to keep going ( I was trying to get patient murders investigated and the murderers arranged to shut me up) One of the murderers was my MD husband...the other was his best friend who was married to a mob NOPD.....obviously GOD intervened on my behalf....but I was SO out of my league on how psychopaths operate.. It is no exaggeration to say to this movie helped me hang on...and helped me survive. ...and yes....the murderers got away with it... But ONE of the mob NOPD went to Federal prison on evidence I was able to get the DOJ to look at..... Because two good NOPD were too scared to go to the DOJ...they gave me the evidence ..They only took the chance because ANOTHER GOOD NOPD was thought to be working with DOJ and was executed in broad daylight in downtown New Orleans in an elaborately covered up plot that managed to get the patsy beaten to death .....by over 100 cops most of whom did not know what was really going on... SO THESE GOOD GUYS PARTICIPATED IN A MURDER.....SET UP BY CROOKED COPS....SO NO ONE HAS COME FORWARD TO THIS DAY...
Who will be the next Towne? Tarantino is equally great, but in a different genre, and he is not planning on a long continuing body of work. His dialog has set a new standard. Towne, though, made the great stories.
Who invited Fincher to the party? Every other film he makes is a giant goose egg. His commentary adds precious little. He has almost no questions for the actual writer of the film!! Love hearing how he'd do a scene better than Polanski. What an utter tool.
+LarryPokeTrainer I read the original screenplay - it didn't have a happy ending. I am not talking about the production screenplay, which is what we see in the movie.
Many years ago, before Robert Towne had accepted Polanski's changed ending, I read that Towne ended it like this: Everything converges on a Chinatown street, like in the film, only Evelyn shoots and kills Noah Cross. The clouds open up in a rainstorm, and Noah's death ends the drought as Evelyn and Gittes embrace. I don't remember where I read this. It didn't say if Escobar and the other cops were there, or if the whole thing would be explained away as self-defense, witnessed by cops, case presumably closed.
The twists keep spiraling right up until the last moment in the original screenplay. I enjoyed the ending the best. The happy ending isn't satisfying... neither is the Polanski version... for me.
Hey Robert. Great job on that movie you wrote/produced/directed as an ode to your pansexual freak of a girlfriend: Patrice Donnelly (a known sexual predator).
It's a pity that this talk isn't underlaid by stills from the movie. It would be so much more instructive. Although those of us who love the film know the shots by heart. Fincher doesn't really understand or relate to the thirties or the history of early Los Angeles and mostly talks film technique, so it's easy to see why he's so gaga over the period setting, whereas Towne grew up with it, which is why the film is so authentic and lush with period detail. Nothing beats writing what you know. Great credit goes to the production designer for realizing Towne's vision. How the film looks is a huge part of of conveying the air of early LA wealth, decadent glamour and corruption that the story requires.
lol if you don't want to hear commentary, why the fuck are you listening to the DVD commentary for this film? Chinatown is a very densely layered, complex piece of art, I could talk anyone's ear off for days about it. Nothing pretentious about that.
Way too much Fincher. Not nearly enough Towne. Most of Fincher's commentary is boring technical stuff. Towne is a very articulate and interesting man with a lot to say (as interviews with him prove). Very disappointing to hear Fincher just run over him.
Benjamin Kerstein Your comment shows no understanding of life. Commentaries are what they are - conversations. A one-off conversation. Fincher was the perfect enthusiastic guy to draw the info from Towne.
+Steve Russell What info did he draw? Towne starts to discuss the scene in the secretary's office, and Fincher just ignores him. Towne manages to return to the subject, but by that time it's too late. Fincher's just listening to himself talk.
Fincher is trying to get Towne to talk but Towne seems to have very little interest in his own screenplay or at least little interest in the film. Man of few words for sure.
Exactly. If Fincher wasn't there, nothing would happen. It's a commentary, not a perfect conversation. All commentaries are disjointed. What's wrong with millennials?
I don't like the line "Forget it Jake it's Chinatown." I don' think it fits. It deflects the enormity of what has gone on in the film. Chinatown represents a way to the writer but it doesn't capture the darkness that takes place here in America. So really they were just afraid to say it like it is. They blamed the Chinese.
youre completely misinterpreting that last line. Hes not blaming the Chinese residents of China town , he is saying there's no use of figthing lieutenant escobar on what has taken place. The Chinese residents are voiceless, and the L.A.PD abused their power and implemented their fascist / racists ideals on these minority communities , hence jake leaving his work with the D.A . This film highlights the absolute corruption that normally plagues L.A. and several other cities in the US. It displays the greed ,pedophilia , and absolute corruption of those sworn to serve and protect for they are also bought in order for them to " do as little as possible " The final scene made me sick to my stomach, the implications it serves is truly terrifying but that is the world we live in.
@@KarlMarxhaswifi There is a flip side to what you say too. The Chinese were effectively a law unto themselves. Cops didn't know what the hell was happening around them there, because they couldn't understand the language, the social mores etc. That's why it's a dangerous place in the film. You are right though, the film is a pretty dark picture of LA, but Polanski has done that in his films plenty of times. One of my favorite films of his from late in his career is The Ghost Writer. What that film implies about powerful political couples (I can't be the only one to read Bill and Hilary into the Prime and his wife characters) is pretty shocking.
R.I.P Robert Towne
Better than a year of film school.
You know usually Fincher is the most collected guy in the room, so it's fun to listen to him geeking out.
@Frogger he’s correct
Towne is just one of the great film writers.
"The futility of good intentions." Towne capsulizes the films intent perfectly.
What a lesson for today's sad world.
That, and the frustration with bureaucracies.
Yes he does !
Art shows the truth. Fact is ..world is amoral.
"Good intentions" is not what happened in Chinatown...
Jake BROKE HIS BALLS to save them...KNOWING he could be killed at any point....THAT IS REAL HEROISM...AND he was looking at redeeming his own past ...
where he got crushed by crooks in the past and believed the MOTHERF*CKERS could not be beaten...
But...
as this insanity developed...he ALMOST could not resist becoming involved in "the good fight" again....
Unable to remember his post police Dept cynicism...JUST SUDDENLY ..LIKE A CAT SEEING RAT...RESPONDS WITH INSTINCT NOT RATIONALITY...
My absolute favourite movie. Perfection. Every element works beautifully.
Fincher could do a commentary to any movie and I'd listen
Spielberg doesn't do commentaries. Never has.
I love all of Fincher’s commentaries. His voice is so relaxing and he is such a great speaker and storyteller.
A trick : watch series at flixzone. Been using them for watching all kinds of movies recently.
@Emmanuel Francisco yup, I have been using Flixzone} for months myself =)
@Emmanuel Francisco yup, been watching on Flixzone} for years myself :)
Well, now I have to see it again-for the fourteenth time. No movie has ever come close to moving me the way Chinatown has. Nothing even begins to compare.
1:45 Lovely words about the Goldsmith score. Agreed this is his finest work. I saw this film twice in a first run theater and the score is so haunting, such an exquisite part of the film that I couldn't quite hum it after leaving. "The solo trumpet has such a mournful, lonely quality..." perfectly stated!
First soundtrack I ever bought - I was 15. I saw it on Oscar night and when Towne won later on, watching it at home I commented as he went down the aisle "Oh, that's that music that I liked!"
One of the most staggering scores EVER...
right up there with "Laura" ,
"Cinema Paradiso", "Schindler's List", and
"Un Homme et une Femme."
@@dotsyjmaherCape Fear (remake), There will be blood, but Chinatown is the best ever
What a treasure, insights that make perfect sense once pointed out to me
I love how much of a fan Fincher is of this movie. Chinatown is my favorite movie.
Steve Chalker Mine too
Thank you for posting this. I saw Chinatown in 1974 on its first night in theaters, before the public knew anything about it, and maybe before reviews had come out. I'll never forget seeing this for the first time, misreading clues along with Gittes, and completely shocked by Evelyn's secret and the ending. It took several minutes to work out that Katherine was from a father/daughter rape, so unusual was incest as a theme in a mainstream film at that time. One week before, I watched the trailer and felt little anticipation. I thought, oh Jack Nicholson is doing his Bogart imitation in a period piece movie. But, that homage set up the audience to be beguiled right up to the denoument. In Philip Marlowe's universe, the good guy got the girl, wrongs were righted, the bad guys got punished, and the world remained right side up. Or so we thought. I was hoping that Towne would mention the film location for Gittes' drive through the avocado or orange grove, being ambushed, and then being rescued by Evelyn. It's set in the western San Fernando Valley, but the only intact ranch from 90 years ago, that I know of, is the Orcutt Ranch on Roscoe Blvd. in what is now West Hills or Chatsworth. Does anyone know where that sequence was actually filmed? Thanks.
According to the IMDB, that scene in the orange grove is filmed at Walter Brennan's old ranch in Moorpark, CA on Sunset Valley Drive. I think Brennan was alive at the time.
"In Philip Marlowe's universe, the good guy got the girl, wrongs were righted, the bad guys got punished, and the world remained right side up." - Is that so? Tragic endings were one of the main characteristics of film noirs. The Chinatown ending is a classic film noir ending and was nothing new in 1974. Actually, many mainstream movies back then didn't have a happy ending.
@@jefdarcyWhile tragic endings occur in classic film noir, they do not occur in the Phillip Marlowe film adaptations in the 1940s (or 1950s, if they exist). Nevertheless, Chinatown is clearly a revisionist detective film, much like The Long Goodbye (1973).
Noah Cross/John Huston was the most evil characterization that I ever saw on screen....a brilliant movie!!!
Fincher is so great at commentaries, funny, erudite and passionate. No slouch as a director either!
but no film clips for me! just the soundtrack!terrible!
@@kaylouisecook366 copyrights exist bruh
This is great, Polanski's framing was always kind of weird to me and Fincher really goes out of his way trying to explain the genius of Polanski.
Polanski's framing has always seemed natural, definitely idiosyncratic, but right to me. Actually, in anamorphic, with its numerous technical challenges, and especially this era, Polanski's framing is phenomenal.
@@leoquesto9183 It's truly genius level which is a word I don't use often.
Glad everyone knows Fincher enough to know that this is slightly out of character for him, to be such a dork in front of Robert Towne. Count the amount of times he says something is great or perfect. Can we all also agree that this is one of the top tier film commentaries of all time?
best filmschool you can learn from; covering all aspects of movie making!
I've noticed several online references to Nicholson's character, J.J."Jake" Gittes as a "seedy" PI. Jake dresses pretty natty for a seedy PI. Although people dressed more formally in the '30's, Gittes is obvious a cut above with cream colored suits that have split panels in the back, cigarette holder, and his monogram on his pajamas and shirts. Also, his office is pretty well appointed (newly installed wooden blinds) and he is making enough (in the Depression) to have a secretary and two other investigators...I'd say he is of a higher class of investigator...also coming out of the police and doing special investigative work for the D.A.(a point his friend back in the police force, Lt. Escobar makes note of: "You've done well by yourself.") And notice the comparison to the detectives grey suit (especially Escobar's wing man Loach) outfits and Jakes threads. All-in-all, hardly a cheap dick gumshoe flatfoot with tabacco stains on his teeth, tomato stains on his shirt and tie, thin shoe leather, and a shiny backside on his britches.
Don't forget the goddamn Florshem shoes.
To Ballsarama: Yes! Yes... well put.
Writers are lazy and the internet is loaded with pasted cliches. He's not seedy. Correct. Those writers are seedy.
@@robcochran6213 Yes!
Hope you're a writer. This was quite good. 🙌
It's wonderful to listen to Towne's reminiscences of his own Los Angeles history and upbringing as well as his experiences writing Chinatown as well as during the production of the film. The serendipitous and felicitous combination of a superb script by a supremely talented and skilled writer, A-list director, actors and production designer, plus the at-once seedy, glamorous and depraved setting of early Los Angeles, (not much changed, may I add) superbly rendered, has not been equaled since. Indeed, Chinatown is the first time this particular synastry has been achieved on film since Casablanca, with the possible exception of The Godfather.
I had to cue up another streaming site with this one but it was worth it. Like a masterclass private screening. Now lets head over to The Ivy for a late supper fellas. I hear they've got stone crabs as a special!
This is just priceless.
...
Such a valuable resource, my sincere thanks.
This is fascinating and wonderful. Thanks so much for posting.
What a brilliant commentary. Thank you for uploading this.
Many thanks for posting, this is gold.
24k gold
Thank you! Amazing upload.
One of my favorite movies ever. BEAUTIFULLY done and the score is fantastic. Acting is spot-on and screenplay is superb. It captures a time and place and events. Wishing Roman Polanski was able to still make movies in this country. He has exceptional talent.
Freaky to think Ali MacGraw almost played Evelyn. Her husband was the producer. They dodged a bullet, there.
jane fonda was up for the part but backed out because she didn’t understand the role of evelyn
Ho ho ho. How right you are. McGraw was just a terrible actress - she ruined every movie she was in, she was so bad. Thank god she wasn't in this one.
Oh my god, this is so cool. A director whom I like a lot discusses in depth a movie I like a lot 🧡🔥
In the US, if you only have the original Paramount Home Entertainment version, or only the Paramount Collector's edition of this film on DVD than you don't have this commentary track. It's only on the Paramount 2-disc CENTENNIAL edition. And if you don't have any other edition from another country you don't have this soundtrack.
So if all you have is a version on DVD without the commentary, you can rip the DVD to your computer and then download this commentary track as an audio file.
Then you can play BOTH in VLC Media Player simultaneously and switch between the commentary or just regular film audio.
Film> Advanced Open File> Choose the Chinatown video file as the movie then check the "Play another media synchronously" box to select this audio track!
Thanks!
Jerry Goldsmith was modeling his solo trumpet theme after Copeland's "Quiet City" solo trumpet, to show contrast in depicting a not quiet LA in the story. Some of Fincher's comments are insightful, but I'd rather have heard Towne speak a lot. My favorite movie of all time. I can recite the script verbatim from Curly's moaning to "Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown." Thanks so much for posting.
It's a masterpiece. Artists are not necessarily the best interpreters of their own creations. Psychoanalytic theory suggests that the artistic process involves the artist's unconscious.
Ah, Quiet City! Interesting influence, makes sense, thank you.
Just synced this to Netflix (turning the sound off), and it's perfect! thank you!
If you appreciate this film, this commentary is very insightful. One of THE great films of 20th Century American film. 2:04:25: “…Chinatown is not a place you can actually go to, 'cause it's a state of mind.”
It's great to hear fincher go on about the technical stuff. Towne hardly recalls anything. (Reasonably so)
The film is truly superb and this would have been nicer if we had heard more from Robert Towne, although he does talk quite a bit about Chinatown in his long interview with the Writers Guild, which you can find on TH-cam. This is mostly Fincher gushing on and on about how much he loves everything, but it does serve to illustrate the craftsmanship of filmmaking and the finer points of creating movie magic. The tragedy of filmmaking today is that none of the talentless corporate entity bureaucrats that produce films would ever make a movie like this. The only ideas they can come up with are that the world needs more cartoon movies. Yawn.
The tragedy of filmmaking today is that not only the producers bust most directors and the majority of the audience are visual illiterates.
I didn't know this commentary existed. Thank you for posting it. The great thing (among others) about the script is that it all seems so complicated for so long and then the revelation allows all the elements of the plot to fall into place. You wouldn't have to see 'Chinatown' again to understand the plot, but you could equally watch it again to see how it was all achieved. I also really like that as smart and street-wise Gittes is, he still keeps putting the pieces together and coming to the wrong conclusions (understandably), or miscalculating the final confrontation.
***** Ah, Gittes keeps missing his points because he betrayed himself as the discreet detective and became her lover...the same mistake he made in Chinatown ... he would have found the glasses the first time if he wan't overcome by his sexual desire for the woman, his hermatia; the ending is fantastic as it works through everyone's POV based upon the information and judgements they make about the situation...everyone was wrong and the bad guy gets away with the girl...albeit his daughter...which raises a lot of questions as a twist. I speak about the screenplay...they didn't depict the original ending of the screenplay in the film.
Linda Burdick
Those are very interesting points. I did read that the Towne script ended with Evelyn and Catherine being driven to Mexico and Cross being frustrated on that point at least.
***** Gittes wants to be the hero but couldn't become one; he oversteps his limits and created a situation where he wan't helping her by just serving his own inner need because he is jealous of Escobar. His behavior is a repeat of what they previously experienced in Chinatown and he has not learned anything from it.
***** I respectfully disagree as Gittes' inner motivations trump the broken light/vision allegory within film analysis. The screenwriter proves his character arc doesn't grow. He can see, and it is determined within the first five pages of the script that Gittes values the discreet ways he has vision in a superior way that others do not. Towne didn't intend for this allegory you speak about. he even says that, so hhis thoughts are also primarily upon Gittes' inner and outer motivations.
***** He is not a hero, but wants that. He fails because once again, he chose it...that's the difference. The glasses etc serve as a metaphor if you so choose, as you like, the metaphor doesn't make him choose anything. It's not a lack of vision, it's pride etc. an inner conflict, a flaw; I can't use metaphors to describe and write in a protagonists actions and choices as a screenwriter. He acts, he does, he chooses, or not. His inner conflict and flaw is not lack of vision. There is no such thing as that for a hermatia, it's one of the seven deadly sins and actions rooted within them. Jealousy, lust, and pride rule this guy and he needs to overcome those inner conflicts in order to become the hero.He does not overcome any of them. I hope this clarifies the point of dinstinction between the two.
Thank you so much for uploading this! 🧡🔥
Thanks for the upload!
I'm 74 and in the '50s-'65 my folks and I would go the pt fermin park . I got a coke from walkers many times . Later in my 20s-40s also . The fact that it is in my fav movie just makes it sweeter 👍 p.s. We would scramble down to the rocky shore and sometimes divers were bringing up abalone and my dad would buy 3 or 4 . Love them ❤
Brilliant!!!
I just bought the Blu-Ray here in Norway and it doesn't have this track for some reason. So thanks for this!
Ida Sessions crib-848 E. Kenigston Road-Echo Park
El Mocando 1400-1414 Haverhurst Dr-West Hollywood
I haven't even seen the film but I loved listening to this.
The film is amazing. I remember being a little kid and hearing adults talk about it occasionally, and cryptically reference the famous, "Forget it, Jake...." line at the end. At that age of course I was like, "Why the hell do they care so much about this movie," ya know, kinda one of those movies with a lot of subtlety, slow build-up, tons of scenes of just dialogue, not a whole lot of showy/sensational scenes, so not something little kids usually "get." Hell, I know plenty of adults who wouldn't be able to sit through it without getting bored (which, believe me, is a mark against those people, not the film). Now it's hands-down one of my all-time favorite films, definitely a "desert island pick."
@Peter P Why would you listen to an audio commentary for a film you haven't seen??
Great. I do not need the images, they are there in my mind!-Misha Allport-Fortaleza, Brasil
I'm definetely gonna watch the movie on my Ipad while listening to the commentary on my phone 🧡🔥
Fantastic commentaries, i just realised how Jack Nicholson voice and Johnny Depp voice in the ninth gate sound similar, now i can't help but imagining John Huston in the mumbo jumbo scene...🤣The nine gates of the kingdom of Chinatown... Being french the name Gittes makes me think of "get this" maybe it was intended like that.What a great movie...and script
"I cant remember his [the original composers] name." Hahahahahaha.
I'm listening and am at the eating scene commentary. I find it interesting what Fincher (who I don't find in the least bit pretentious) says about eating in Hollywood movies. I was of the same opinion myself. It's so different than what you see in asian movies or tv dramas, To be honest, I'm not always quiet sure who is talking. To me, their voices are quiet similar. But I'm guessing from the comments, it's mostly Fincher. Before this, I listened to the point blank commentary, between Boorman and Soderbergh which is more two sided.
...and what a great movie THAT was!
Francis Ford Coppola includes eating scenes in all his Godfather movies, and cooking scenes too. He makes a point of doing so, and to great effect. (See his lengthy Godfather commentaries, also on TH-cam.). So why Fincher carries on so about filmmakers "avoiding" eating scenes is peculiar. I'm not sure it's true. There's a memorable restaurant scene in "When Harry Met Sally" - remember "I'll have what she's having".?? -As a matter fact more than one eating scene in that film. Several eating moments in Miss Congeniality." A great many eating scenes/dinner parties over the course of Downton Abbey. More than one in "The English Patient." Westerns frequently have chuck wagon scenes. I could go on. Of course the moronic cartoon character movies Hollywood comes out with these days don't have eating scenes - cartoon characters don't eat.
just want to say thanks to the uploaded for disabling ads on this!
Have been binge-watching analyses of 'Chinatown' but this takes the biscuit. It's fantastic! Everyone else bangs on about Gittes's vanity and his wanting to be a hero, the latter which for some reason I found unconvincing. And then here I get the real reason. He pursues the matter because he's pissed off at getting his nose slashed, and wants revenge (43:25). Of course, as obvious as the nose on one's face (pun intended), except I hadn't thought of it.
Phillip Lambro was the original composer, and some of the score is available on CD
#2 on my list of fav films #1 being Dr. Zhivago . #3 The Two JAKES , #4 Once Upon A Time In The West .
What studio head today would "suggest a trumpet as a leitmotif"
Fincher remarks that Jake is always reading the newspaper but isn’t it always a racing form?
1:01:30 Tarantino does that in his movies, and the food always looks very delicious. That whole strudel scene in Inglorious Basterds, for example.
Surprising to hear Fincher say he's never been able to find Ida's bungalow court and he assumed it was long gone, because the address is on IMDB, and I've googled it and used the maps function, toggling up and down the street. It's there, and looks the same pretty much although the surrounding blocks are quite changed. I wish I knew how to contact him to let him know how easily he could find it.
This commentary is from a criterion collection release from like 12 years ago so idk
I saw this movie when I was 12 years old. Didn't understand any of it; glad I wasn't the only one. LOL
Nwo and their archons are the actors in real life
Not surprising. NOT a film for a 12-year old!
Remember when you'd go to Blockbuster & rent or buy a movie that had tons of special features including commentaries from the filmmakers? Who are the morons who decided they would rather stream a movie on their phone? I want names!!
TACK ROOM for Gods sake. Not a "tackle room." Fishermen have tackle. Not horsemen.
FYI, Fincher, it is not unusual for the TACK room on a wealthy man's ranch to have seating, such as chairs or a loveseat. Riders like to sit and relax with friends when they may be in dusty clothes or muddy boots after riding. Fincher thinks with such a pedestrian, in-the-box mind. How he ever got in the film business is astounding.
You what?
Have you read the spec script?
2 very similar sounding voices
The opening notes of this. Over the title work but man oh man.
Did Robert name his daughter China?
I hope he did :)
Fincher is a man who clearly has only a passing interest or even acquaintance with history of any kind - particully the history of Los Angeles. A zanjero was the man who managed the "zanjas," the acequias (ditches) that carried water to the fields and farmlands. The zanjero was an important figure in city government - more important than a mayor actually Towne is not quite technically correct - the zanjero was not a "water carrier." The zanjero managed the distribution of water, so farmers' livelihoods depended on the decisions of the zanjero. Mulwray, in the story.
Tack Room, tackle room is fishing equipment, not uncommon to have seating for putting on English riding boots.
Fincher's lack of familiarity with upper class life is all over his remarks. He often sounds like some goofus from the sticks. As is his ignorance of history or anything that happened before he was born.
Mr. Fincher please please remake your remake of The Illustrated Man.
"Tell me about it on the way to to San Pietreio."
Please give credit to the great Uan Racey on trumpet,. heard you Uan in movies such as American in Paris and Rocky
What does the line "as little as possible"?
It's based on what Jake told Evelyn when they were laying in bed when she asked what he did in Chinatown
Looking back , there is no way Chinatown could not be made today. The movie is about water and today's studio woud ask why not it be about drugs or gambling or prositution to which I'd reply those three things you mention does not affect everyone where water effects all of us. Above all, Rober Evens was both the producer and ran Paramount, so there was no buffer. Today, every studio clown would chop throught the script with a billion revisions. For me, Chinatown is the golden standard of the last great period of films, the ealy 1970s.
When Jack and Faye were filming the “slap” scene Faye felt that to make it more authentic Jack should actually slap her. So that’s the way they filmed it.
bummer they dint have inset showin the movie as they speak.
too radio.
The more you know of writers and actors, the more you realize, how little they actually invented. John Huston, for example, was just barely more moral than his character. The Hollywood stories of his willfulness and self-indulgence are legendary.
Great commentary but why on Earth at 54:00 do they say “painting out Morgan Freeman’s name”?
Check it out for yourself - it’s bizarre and I’d really like to know why Morgan Freeman is mentioned here.
Fincher is referring to his film "Se7en", which Morgan Freeman starred in.
@@adamzanzie *in which Freeman starred
sticks with me. almost wish it didn't.
Where do they talk about the ending
@FP Take a wild guess.
Lol I cant tell who is David and who is Robert
They sound very similar..
When does the commentary supposed to start? Want to listen as I watch the movie.
Literally the very start. Pressing play on both video/audio at the exact same time would be ideal. By about 2:55 you can hear just the movie in this commentary track and you'll see how the audio matches up with the actors speaking.
MagnumDB
Thank you.
So technically does Jake get his $10k from Cross?
It would be nice if we actually saw the scenes being commented on.
@Paul T Then buy the DVD.
Yeah, Fischer, really. Why did you invite Robert Towne. It's not about you!
It's a helluva lot more about Robert Towne than David Fincher since Towne did the screenplay. Since Polanski was of course unavailable Towne is the next best resource. He was there!
Not gonna lie, this is better than the movie
No, your lying!
It's strange that Robert would write a film about a water company
Not strange at all. He grew up in Los Ángeles (San Pedro actually) and knows the history of Mulholland and the early LA scandals.
Wait so what's strange now?
1:37:26 Fincher must be pretty stupid... He says he has never been able to find the Ida Sessions bungalow but the house is at THE EXACT ADDRESS that is given to Gittes over the phone!!
not anymore, is what he's implying. Are you from the area?
@@al1976-v7m He says that it might have been torn down.
If he knows the address then he'll be able to find out if the house is still there.
What he says makes no sense.
I was almost murdered by mob owned NOPD ...I was being stalked by them at the time I first saw this movie on TV.....I WAS STUNNED...I really identified with Jake and KNEW I had to keep going ( I was trying to get patient murders investigated and the murderers arranged to shut me up)
One of the murderers was my MD husband...the other was his best friend who was married to a mob NOPD.....obviously GOD intervened on my behalf....but I was SO out of my league on how psychopaths operate..
It is no exaggeration to say to this movie helped me hang on...and helped me survive.
...and yes....the murderers got away with it...
But ONE of the mob NOPD went to Federal prison on evidence I was able to get the DOJ to look at.....
Because two good NOPD were too scared to
go to the DOJ...they gave me the evidence ..They only took the chance because ANOTHER GOOD NOPD was thought to be working with DOJ and was executed in broad daylight in downtown New Orleans in an elaborately covered up plot that managed to get the patsy beaten to death .....by over 100 cops most of whom did not know what was really going on...
SO THESE GOOD GUYS PARTICIPATED IN A MURDER.....SET UP BY CROOKED COPS....SO
NO
ONE
HAS COME FORWARD TO THIS DAY...
OMG
Yeah this happened
Who will be the next Towne? Tarantino is equally great, but in a different genre, and he is not planning on a long continuing body of work. His dialog has set a new standard. Towne, though, made the great stories.
Who invited Fincher to the party? Every other film he makes is a giant goose egg. His commentary adds precious little. He has almost no questions for the actual writer of the film!! Love hearing how he'd do a scene better than Polanski. What an utter tool.
Oh, dear...
Does he treat 13-year-olds better than Polanski, though?
all very well to have the commentary-but only the soundtrack! no good for me!
Am I the only one annoyed by Fincher talking way too much and repeatedly interrupting Towne? Having said that, this is well worth listening to.
This commentary is better than the movie itself.
Hardly. The film is a masterpiece.
The screenplay is superb...excellent! Roman Polanski ruined the author's intentions.
+Linda Burdick If you're suggesting that the original happy ending was better than the true ending you are gravely mistaken.
+LarryPokeTrainer I read the original screenplay - it didn't have a happy ending. I am not talking about the production screenplay, which is what we see in the movie.
Many years ago, before Robert Towne had accepted Polanski's changed ending, I read that Towne ended it like this: Everything converges on a Chinatown street, like in the film, only Evelyn shoots and kills Noah Cross. The clouds open up in a rainstorm, and Noah's death ends the drought as Evelyn and Gittes embrace. I don't remember where I read this. It didn't say if Escobar and the other cops were there, or if the whole thing would be explained away as self-defense, witnessed by cops, case presumably closed.
The twists keep spiraling right up until the last moment in the original screenplay. I enjoyed the ending the best. The happy ending isn't satisfying... neither is the Polanski version... for me.
@@heartofgoldfilmandtheatre So, I'll ask, which ending did you read? Can you at least summarize it?
Hey Robert. Great job on that movie you wrote/produced/directed as an ode to your pansexual freak of a girlfriend: Patrice Donnelly (a known sexual predator).
What in the fuck are you talking about?
Towne clashed with producer Geffen and sued him, and others, for 110 million dollars.
I can't find any controversial info on this chick
CHINATOWN als Hörspiel????????????? WTF?? By the way: the "logo" is the poster and of course in color.
It's a pity that this talk isn't underlaid by stills from the movie. It would be so much more instructive. Although those of us who love the film know the shots by heart. Fincher doesn't really understand or relate to the thirties or the history of early Los Angeles and mostly talks film technique, so it's easy to see why he's so gaga over the period setting, whereas Towne grew up with it, which is why the film is so authentic and lush with period detail. Nothing beats writing what you know. Great credit goes to the production designer for realizing Towne's vision. How the film looks is a huge part of of conveying the air of early LA wealth, decadent glamour and corruption that the story requires.
I enjoyed this but Fincher can be so pretentious. It's nice that he loves the film so much though
lol if you don't want to hear commentary, why the fuck are you listening to the DVD commentary for this film? Chinatown is a very densely layered, complex piece of art, I could talk anyone's ear off for days about it. Nothing pretentious about that.
LAWRENCE WHITEHURST And another fucking idiot misusing the internet's favourite buzzword
It's one of Fincher's all time favourite movies, that's why he's talking so much, he's just excited
Yeah, I really don't get these comments at all, criticizing Fincher for being enthusiastic and interested in the film. Kinda stupid, honestly.
He's a director, he commented on the film. Writers don't have much to say about the making of a film.
Way too much Fincher. Not nearly enough Towne. Most of Fincher's commentary is boring technical stuff. Towne is a very articulate and interesting man with a lot to say (as interviews with him prove). Very disappointing to hear Fincher just run over him.
Benjamin Kerstein Your comment shows no understanding of life. Commentaries are what they are - conversations. A one-off conversation. Fincher was the perfect enthusiastic guy to draw the info from Towne.
+Steve Russell What info did he draw? Towne starts to discuss the scene in the secretary's office, and Fincher just ignores him. Towne manages to return to the subject, but by that time it's too late. Fincher's just listening to himself talk.
Fincher is trying to get Towne to talk but Towne seems to have very little interest in his own screenplay or at least little interest in the film. Man of few words for sure.
Exactly. If Fincher wasn't there, nothing would happen. It's a commentary, not a perfect conversation. All commentaries are disjointed. What's wrong with millennials?
“Chinatown” is a fantastic movie, but the interviewer is painfully loquacious.
I’m 20 minutes in and calling it quits.
😅it’s David Fuckin’ Fincher bro!!!
I'm interested in what Towne has to say. I don't care what a sycophant has to say.
Yeah, what a sniveling little sycophant he is for being a fan of the film with a lot to say about it. Stupid ass comment, Marky boy.
@@tuanjim799 idk about sycophant but listening to him is embarrassing.
@@tomsckay7point0 Why?
@@tomsckay7point0you are an embarrassment for your family
I don't like the line "Forget it Jake it's Chinatown." I don' think it fits. It deflects the enormity of what has gone on in the film. Chinatown represents a way to the writer but it doesn't capture the darkness that takes place here in America. So really they were just afraid to say it like it is. They blamed the Chinese.
@wil brander If you think that line means they blamed the Chinese then you clearly haven't understood the film.
youre completely misinterpreting that last line. Hes not blaming the Chinese residents of China town , he is saying there's no use of figthing lieutenant escobar on what has taken place. The Chinese residents are voiceless, and the L.A.PD abused their power and implemented their fascist / racists ideals on these minority communities , hence jake leaving his work with the D.A . This film highlights the absolute corruption that normally plagues L.A. and several other cities in the US. It displays the greed ,pedophilia , and absolute corruption of those sworn to serve and protect for they are also bought in order for them to " do as little as possible " The final scene made me sick to my stomach, the implications it serves is truly terrifying but that is the world we live in.
"Chinatown is a state of mind." Robert Towne.
I dont like you
@@KarlMarxhaswifi There is a flip side to what you say too. The Chinese were effectively a law unto themselves. Cops didn't know what the hell was happening around them there, because they couldn't understand the language, the social mores etc. That's why it's a dangerous place in the film. You are right though, the film is a pretty dark picture of LA, but Polanski has done that in his films plenty of times. One of my favorite films of his from late in his career is The Ghost Writer. What that film implies about powerful political couples (I can't be the only one to read Bill and Hilary into the Prime and his wife characters) is pretty shocking.