The most important limit in Calculus // Geometric Proof & Applications

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
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    The limit of sin(x)/x as x goes to zero is perhaps the most important limit in Calculus and it is just one! This is equivalent to the small angle approximation that sin(x) is approximately just equal to x when x is sufficiently small. In this video we will begin with an application from astronomy using angular distance to estimate the size of objects in the universe. Then we will focus on the geometric proof of the limit of sin(x)/x which follows from some simple trigonometry. It is important to proof this geometrically because we can't just use L'Hopitals rule as that requires knowing that the derivative of sin(x) is just cos(x). As we will see, that proof however relies on this very limit!
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    0:00 Limit of sin(x)/x as x goes to 0
    0:56 Astronomy Application
    2:49 Visual Intuition using Maple Learn
    3:47 Geometric Proof
    8:16 Proof that the derivative of sin(x) is cos(x)
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ความคิดเห็น • 379

  • @DrTrefor
    @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    Hope you all enjoyed! Don't forget to check out the sponsor of the video:
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    • @jaimeduncan6167
      @jaimeduncan6167 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      yes, very good explanation. I will have justified the Tangent part a little bit more, but the video was already long. You got a new subscriber.

    • @26IME
      @26IME 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      #AD

    • @johnny196775
      @johnny196775 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I am really curious about what you have to say regarding this limit, but can't bring myself to watch the video, because I disagree per se with the premise that anything in math is more important than anything else. Do you really mean that? or is that a misguided attempt at click-bait? I guess it doesn't really matter because either way it costs you credibility.

    • @DanielToffolo
      @DanielToffolo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Maple calculator fails to graph sin(x)/x when x is close to zero. Sponsor fail 😵‍💫

    • @user-xm4ci6bp4b
      @user-xm4ci6bp4b 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      What exactly do you think sin(x)/x means? We know that sin(x) is a ratio, but the denominator is an angle. So it would make no sense to divide by degrees because sin(x) is defined in terms of radians. Yes, I know that degrees can be converted to radians, BUT once you find the ratio, that is, sin(x), you can only divide it by *radians* , not by degrees! For otherwise, you would have units/deg which is nonsense.
      I think you agree with me so far. At least I hope you do!
      Newton's greatest accomplishment was to find a series for sin(x). He did this *entirely* without the use of any calculus. The series is given by:
      sin (x) = x - x^3/3! + x^5/5! - ...
      So, sin(x)/x = [ x - x^3/3! + x^5/5! - ...]/x = 1 - x^2/3! + x^4/5! - ... = f(x)
      1=f(0).
      As you can see, there is nothing about taking limits anywhere there. Therefore, your claim that sin(x)/x requires limit is obviously false, yes?
      This incorrect thinking of mainstream math academics stems from their inability and failure to understand the concept of number. The Ancient Greeks rejected the concept of zero magnitude. For one thing, most of the propositions in Book V which establish the arithmetic operations of subtraction, addition, division and multiplication would be untrue if "zero magnitudes" were included. Take proposition 12 of Book V:
      9/12 = (9-3)/(12-4) = 6/8 = (6-3)/(8-4) = 3/4 =? (3-3)/(4-4) = 0/0 ?
      See, that would be nonsense. Therefore, no zero magnitude is allowed.
      The expression sin(x)/x is not in irreducible form which is given by
      f(x) = 1 - x^2/3! + x^4/5! - ...
      This same errant thinking is evident in expressions such as (x^2 - 1)/(x-1) whose irreducible form is x+1. It's preposterous to even assume that one can contemplate 0 as part of actual numbers, because 0 is not a true number. While 0 is extremely useful, students need to be informed of these facts which are usually waived over by the circular nonsense of limit theory.
      dy/dx is a symbolic fraction and it is entirely correct to write dy/dx = dy/dt * dt/dx.
      In the first place, we could not write dy/dx unless both dy and dx refer to numbers and 0 is merely a place-holder, not a number.
      So, it's very foolish to even talk about sin(x)/x if x is 0, unless sin(x)/x is in irreducible form as explained above. Otherwise, all you are doing is punching a hole in the function f(x) = 1 - x^2/3! + x^4/5! - ... which is clearly well defined when x=0, that is, you're removing x=0 from the domain which is very silly indeed.

  • @mnada72
    @mnada72 2 ปีที่แล้ว +165

    Mathematics is beautiful, but not everyone is able to reveal that beauty. Thanks 👍 for this beautiful brain teaser

    • @ara8875
      @ara8875 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Absolutely right❤️I love maths very much

  • @charlesmartin1972
    @charlesmartin1972 2 ปีที่แล้ว +199

    I was quite relieved when you pointed out that proving l'hôpital's rule requires proving this limit from definitions to avoid circular argument. Also quite impressed by the correct use of the phrase "begging the question"
    Have a like

    • @fix5072
      @fix5072 ปีที่แล้ว

      There are multiple proofs of L'Hospitals rule, also ones not using that limit, so it's completely fine to use L'Hospital on sin(x)/x

    • @charlesmartin1972
      @charlesmartin1972 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@fix5072 okay, but find me a proof that d/dx sin(x)=cos(x) that doesn't use L'Hôpital's rule. If we use a result that is a consequence of L'Hôpital's rule to prove L'Hôpital's rule, that's a tautology and is therefore not a proof. It is an example of a formal logical fallacy called "petitio principii" which directly translates from Latin as "begging of the principle", gradually bastardized in English to "begging the question"

    • @nasserallammah2035
      @nasserallammah2035 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@fix5072 the problem is not in fhe proof of l'Hospital rule. The problem is how do you know what is the derivative of sin(x) equal to which you need to know to apply l'Hospital's rule.

    • @fix5072
      @fix5072 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nasserallammah2035 you can prove sin(x)'=cos(x) without L'Hospital. I can give you the proof of you want

    • @nasserallammah2035
      @nasserallammah2035 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@fix5072 ofcourse without l'Hospital - as it is just in the video. The problem is how you prove that without that limit - and using/calculating the limit without the knowledge of sin'(x).

  • @johnchessant3012
    @johnchessant3012 2 ปีที่แล้ว +138

    My favorite way: Inscribe a regular n-gon in the unit circle. The length of one side is 2sin(π/n), so the perimeter is 2n*sin(π/n). As n -> infinity, this should approach the circumference, 2π. Thus sin(π/n)/(π/n) -> 1. Letting x = π/n, we conclude sin(x)/x -> 1 as x -> 0.

    • @aashsyed1277
      @aashsyed1277 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      ooh wow!

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      oooh I like that!!

    • @noob-qk7mo
      @noob-qk7mo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      My teacher told me in his class, hehe

    • @integrals857
      @integrals857 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Great😀😀

    • @ozuromo
      @ozuromo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Nice wrong proof haha. Showing that there is a particular sequence such that the limit works doesn't imply that it will work for every sequence.
      Take the sequence (-1^n), of course I could go to infinity by "letting x = 2k" (k natural) and them of course it would be "proved" that lim (-1^n) = 1 right?

  • @shifagoyal8221
    @shifagoyal8221 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    The best thing I like about your videos are that they are short n having graphs n pictures that fix the concepts into long term memory.Your passion is infectious.

  • @Darkev77
    @Darkev77 2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    These kind of videos are so interesting; the tricks, intuitions, and algebraic manipulations are so beneficial!

  • @ltjgambrose
    @ltjgambrose 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I remember using this trick a dozen times in my electrical engineering classes. In complicated electrical systems it pays a lot of dividends to ignore terms right out, so pretty often we'd have an equation for an AC system in the form of:
    lim x>0 (______ / x ) * (sin(θ) / x) or lim x>0 ________ + cos(θ)
    where the sin or cos term describes the alternating current/voltage. Since we needed to do transient math (e.g. what happens in the first half cycle when you turn on this motor circuit at 60 Hz?) the sinusoidal nature of the source really didn't matter. We could just cross those trig terms out and just look at the transient math.

  • @matthartley2471
    @matthartley2471 2 ปีที่แล้ว +113

    You actually can't use lhopital's rule in this case, because the derivative of sin(x) at x=0 is lim x->0 (sin(x)-sin(0))/(x-0) = lim x->0 sin(x)/x, making the argument circular.

    • @SzanyiAtti
      @SzanyiAtti 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I think he talked about this in the last segment of the video

    • @matthartley2471
      @matthartley2471 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@SzanyiAtti I made it most of the way through, saw him use lhopital's rule, and got triggered. He definitely does point this out. Thank you

    • @gamingbutnotreally6077
      @gamingbutnotreally6077 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      You can actually use lhopitals rule. It's like how you can have a recursive function as long as you have a base case. If at some point in your circular argument you use the other proof for this limit, you can substitute it back in and resolve this circular "recursive" proof.

    • @matthartley2471
      @matthartley2471 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@gamingbutnotreally6077 so your argument is that we can use l'hopital's rule to prove that lim x->0 sin(x)/x = lim x->0 sin(x)/x, then use some other proof to prove that lim x->0 sin(x)/x=1? I mean, technically you're correct, but step 1 still does nothing

    • @balthazarbeutelwolf9097
      @balthazarbeutelwolf9097 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I thought that in lhopital you have the limit of a fraction (where both numerator and denominator converge to 0) and apply the derivative to both numerator and denominator, giving you here lim x->0 cos(x)/1, which is simply 1.

  • @shutupimlearning
    @shutupimlearning 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Such a great video! Just learned about paraxial approximations for optical systems and small angle approximations for calculating vertical distances of bands in single-slit diffraction in my first year under-grad physics courses! The rigor in proof of the small-angle approx you showed here makes me feel more confident that these approximations weren't ad hoc (even though I knew they had to come from somewhere!)

  • @scraps7624
    @scraps7624 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Man, your channel is refreshing, Im going over many things that I went over in my undergrad thinking about how much details were just glossed over

  • @martinepstein9826
    @martinepstein9826 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great video! I often find myself looking for a correct and accessible proof of a theorem to show someone, but so many proofs on TH-cam are full of handwaving and mistakes. Your videos are always spot on.

  • @georgelaing2578
    @georgelaing2578 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you for a clear and understandable treatment.

  • @onlyonecjb001
    @onlyonecjb001 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Dr TB this was a fantastic video. I love the explanation as it clear and to the point without being too verbose. Love it and thank you for sharing your knowledge and empowering others to learn.

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Glad you enjoyed it!

  • @punditgi
    @punditgi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Very nicely done! Many thanks for the explanation!

  • @collegemathematics6698
    @collegemathematics6698 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    you are the most passionate math educator in youtube.

  • @richmakino1616
    @richmakino1616 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Outstanding! Former high school math teacher.

  • @AJ-et3vf
    @AJ-et3vf 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome video! Thank you!

  • @megapril
    @megapril ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Your videos are awesome. Thank you for the enthusiasm!

  • @nicoz4122
    @nicoz4122 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Amazing !!! Good content, very clear and well done!

  • @mwerensteijn
    @mwerensteijn 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Awesome! Thanks for explaining!

  • @markmetalen37
    @markmetalen37 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    At first I thought that you could omit the geometry by applying Euler's formula for the complex exponential and the Taylor-Maclaurin series for that function plus a few symmetry properties for sine and cosine but then you will sadly end up with a divergent Laurent-series for the limit to zero.
    Anyway, a very nice piece of geometric proof: elegant, straighforward and nowhere near complicated! Very suitable for a first year's calculus course in college, I reckon.
    👍

  • @factified9892
    @factified9892 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    thanks a lot for the helpful proof.

  • @Sci-Fi-Mike
    @Sci-Fi-Mike 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm glad you mentioned the limit definition of cosine after mentioning L'hopital's Rule. Too often, students rely on L'hopital as proof, though they're relying on circular logic to find a solution. Just stating "we know the limit as x->0 of sin(x)/x =1" is sufficient for most problems. Thanks for the enjoyable video!

  • @isakwatz11
    @isakwatz11 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    gotta love that proof, so beautiful! haha i've shown this proof to several classmates but they weren't quite so thrilled.

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      lol people don't appreciate a nice geometric proof well enough:D

  • @chyldstudios
    @chyldstudios 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for showing Maple Calculator. It rocks.

  • @zaccoopah
    @zaccoopah 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I used Maple waaaay back in my undergrad years but I ended up using Matlab and Mathematica much more. That said ... this calculator app is awesome!! Thanks for sharing! And, as always, great math lesson!

  • @samsamo7286
    @samsamo7286 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just Awesome ... Thank you sir .

  • @Lavamar
    @Lavamar 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow this was really well explained! Thanks so much!

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Glad you enjoyed it!

  • @ashishjha1039
    @ashishjha1039 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very thanks for Maple calculator. You are really genius.

  • @matthewkonstantinov272
    @matthewkonstantinov272 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Since we devide by sin(x) you have to consider not only one, but two cases: 1) x > 0 then sin(x)> 0; 2) x < 0 then sin(x) < 0. The sign of sin(x) changes the two inequalities, but in the end the proof is the same. Also we have to mention why from the left and right limit having the same value (in this equal to 1) we would have that the limit also has that value.
    Your videos are very inspiring! I don't want to judge you, but help to make them even better! :)

    • @gregoryfenn1462
      @gregoryfenn1462 ปีที่แล้ว

      I suppose you can hack it by making a geometric argument that sin(x) < 0 if x is small and x < 0, i.e. the signs of x and sin(x) are the same (for small x).

  • @RamasyaDasosmyaham
    @RamasyaDasosmyaham 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Beautiful!

  • @GustavoMerchan79
    @GustavoMerchan79 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is the best video about Lim x->0 (sin x)/x. Well explained sir.

  • @forfun4120
    @forfun4120 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    this is a rly cool proof

  • @StevenTorrey
    @StevenTorrey 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Gee, I was actually able to follow your discussion,

  • @PhilipChen-gi9py
    @PhilipChen-gi9py 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Dr Trefor Bazett, thank you so much. You are a gift to mankind.

  • @mr.hashford713
    @mr.hashford713 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    this is the explanation i needed at school 7 years ago
    0_o

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      haha "just in time" :D

    • @mr.hashford713
      @mr.hashford713 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@DrTrefor anyway sometimes (actually every time(night)) i'm so glad to watch random math video at 3 am. (i'm sure, i'm not alone at this. LOL)

  • @kentgoldings
    @kentgoldings 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If you construct the first triangle OBC. The area in 1/2*sinx. It makes things slightly simpler.

  • @user-zm4eo2hd3h
    @user-zm4eo2hd3h 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well done.. nice proof

  • @AA-mo5mq
    @AA-mo5mq 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The calculator app is awesome, and the video is interesting too. Thank you, sir.

  • @navidpirsanan222
    @navidpirsanan222 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It was actually good for explaining for school students because they don't know about liner approximation

  • @atiurrahman7907
    @atiurrahman7907 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Beautiful explanation. Sir, my mathematics teacher can't explain topology in an understandable way so please explain me like this awsome video.

  • @jacielespinosa-severo7134
    @jacielespinosa-severo7134 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You can also use the squeeze theorem!

  • @mateiaprozianu3289
    @mateiaprozianu3289 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    8:02 this is one of the most perfect things I ever saw

  • @rimorithwikpalla1970
    @rimorithwikpalla1970 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I am from India and I did my graduation from IIT and when I was solving calculus I used to think about this proof and I tried a lot geometrically and ended up with nothing but I came to know the proof now and sadly I did the same back then many times but didn't come with the final answer thanks a lot Sir for remembering my JEE days

    • @GoToMan
      @GoToMan ปีที่แล้ว

      Haha that was me in my first year, where did you study?

  • @navidpirsanan222
    @navidpirsanan222 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Oh Colleage you are a great math teacher👌👏

  • @joparicutin
    @joparicutin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Best teacher ever.

  • @kdmdlo
    @kdmdlo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    As an alternative, you could use the Taylor series for sin(x) and divide by x. In the limit as x -> 0, the lead term (x/x = 1) is the only term to survive and the limit is 1.

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      That assumes the value of the limit being 1 in the first place.

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      True, but the standard way to derive the taylor series for sin(x) involves differentiating, which involves knowing this limit to begin with so we fall into the same circular trap. There are lots of ways to build up a calculus framework, and you can solve a lot of problems by permuting the order of how you build things up, but ultimately geometric arguments need to be input somewhere.

    • @philippg6023
      @philippg6023 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@DrTrefor we in germany, in real analysis (We dont really have calculus classes), usually define e^x, sinx, cosx by its taylorseries so it can be valid ^^

    • @carultch
      @carultch 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@philippg6023
      Regardless of where you start your definition of the trig functions, at some point you need to make a connection between any power series definition of sin(x), and the usual geometric one (whether the y-coordinate on the unit circle of an angle CCW from +x, or whether it is the opposite over hypotenuse). So some proof equivalent to the proof of this limit will be needed, somewhere in the process to prove this connection.

  • @guliyevshahriyar
    @guliyevshahriyar 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    thank you

  • @igorkuivjogifernandes3012
    @igorkuivjogifernandes3012 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very cool geometric proof. When I saw the thumbnail the sandwich theorem just popped in my mind.

  • @takeoverurmemes
    @takeoverurmemes 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wanted to bring up, in case nobody else has, that when I looked into this limit through a video on blackpenredpen's channel, he goes over how this limit is actually used in the development of the definition of the derivative of sin(x), so we actually can't use L'Hopital's rule to work out that it's 1. I suppose that since it still gives us the correct answer to use that logic, it's still technically viable to use it as a calc student, since every calc student knows d/dx (sin(x) = cos(x), and it's just simpler to use L'Hopital's rule than to work out this entire proof.
    Still, very excellent explanation here, glad to find yet another great math channel to watch content from! I've tutored math for most of my life, and watching content like this and seeing the many ways to explain these kinds of concepts helps me become better at tutoring. Keep up that enthusiasm, you're helping inspire people like me!

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yup! If developing calculus formally, this limit needs to be proven before derivatives and before l’hospitals rule

    • @thecrazyeagle9674
      @thecrazyeagle9674 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He said that later.

  • @knk8192
    @knk8192 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Love you sir😋

  • @rayniac211
    @rayniac211 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I really freaked out when you told me to use L'Hospital's rule for this limit. Thanks for revealing the issue and not misleading students XD

    • @fix5072
      @fix5072 ปีที่แล้ว

      You can use L'Hospital on sin(x)/x, just have to use a different approach for the proof of L'Hospital. Saying you cannot use L'Hospital on sin(x)/x may lead to a false understanding on the rule itself

  • @jorgevallin2983
    @jorgevallin2983 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I loved it… Thank you

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'm glad you liked it!

  • @cactusguy4363
    @cactusguy4363 ปีที่แล้ว

    The geometric proof was SO helpful. I'm more of a visual learner, and my teacher's explanation made no sense. Thanks for helping me not fail honors calc👍

  • @chinmoypal3397
    @chinmoypal3397 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting

  • @yahccs1
    @yahccs1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This reminds me of my university interview! One of the things they asked me was if I could draw a graph of y=(sin x)/x (Now I see why it's so important!) and I had to work it out a step at a time using the graphs of y=sin x and y=x, so I worked it out geometrically. I don't remember if I used calculus to work out the value of y at x=0 or the small angle approximation.
    By the way it would have been good if you mentioned angle conversion factors for the astonomical example because if the small angle is in minutes or seconds of arc it needs to be converted to radians.
    Wow, I didn't know you could get calculators or calculator apps that can do calculus!
    I have a programmable calculator so it can be used for integration using a numerical approximation, which gets tedious with too many iterations for smaller 'dx' intervals
    Have you done a video on integrating the length of a curve (of any given equation)?
    I was curious to see how to work out the length of the line drawing out a sine wave, but it gets really complicated and I could only do it with a numerical approximation on Excel.

  • @feynstein1004
    @feynstein1004 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    The graph portion was so amazingly intuitive I can't believe I never encountered that in all these years of learning calculus.

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I find it crazy how many teachers skip that...so easy and explains so much!

    • @feynstein1004
      @feynstein1004 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DrTrefor Indeed. A picture really is worth a thousand words 😃

  • @hrperformance
    @hrperformance ปีที่แล้ว

    This such a fantastic argument/proof.
    I feel like the way it was explained here was tailored for me 😂
    I tried to do this myself (not realising the geometric/equality trick described here)...i was unsuccessful 😅

  • @mikealdaccache8256
    @mikealdaccache8256 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's a really nice proof, thank you for making this video and introducing us to maple app.
    Just there is something that is not quite right in the physic example.
    We are not able to determinate d unless we have found D. And to find D (the distance earth-supernova) we use a method called parallax, that consist of taking the triangle vertex from 2 different places on earth (and for some cases 2 mesures from the same place on earth but the second 1 is taken after 6 months, so we can maximize the distance between these 2 points to 2x sun-earth distance). So now we know the distance between our 2 points and the angle delta, now we can make the calculations as you told us to.

  • @procerpat9223
    @procerpat9223 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    outstanding

  • @sniperwolf50
    @sniperwolf50 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    my favorite way of proving this limit is to, instead of using the OCD triangle, draw the arc of radius cos x and length x*cos x from A to the hypotenuse of the right triangle. From there, you can make the (kinda sus) claim that x*cos x ≤ sin x ≤ x ⇒ cos x ≤ sin x/x ≤ 1, as x →0, 1 ≤ sin x/x ≤ 1. More rigorously, you could use the areas of the sectors and the right triangle, since it's evidently true from the geometry that the area of the triangle is in-between the areas of the internal and external sectors. Therefore x/2* cos^2 x ≤ 1/2*cos x*sin x ≤ x/2 ⇒ cos x ≤ sin x/x ≤ 1/cos x, as x → 0, 1 ≤ sin x/x ≤ 1

    • @anshumanagrawal346
      @anshumanagrawal346 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I don't like using the area of sector formula, you can show that using some simple geometry too

  • @livef0rever_147
    @livef0rever_147 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If you were to join the straight line BC, a triangle would be formed in which the angle BAC is right. Therefore AB

    • @livef0rever_147
      @livef0rever_147 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I feel that this proof is more elegant since it only relies on a basic property of length and some elementary geometry, whereas the standard proof uses area, algebra, formulas related to the measurement of circles.

  • @ZaraAxelrod
    @ZaraAxelrod 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Used begging the question correctly!

  • @christiansmakingmusic777
    @christiansmakingmusic777 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The easiest way to see this is to recognize that the tangent line of a continuous function at a given point is a fantastic “local” estimate of that function. Thus, sine of x at zero has a slope of one and the line y=x is tangent to sine of x at that point. We might as well say that the limit as x goes to a of any differentiable function of one variable (sans some possible pathologies) has the property that f(a)/(f’(a)(x-a)+f(a))=1

  • @moshadj
    @moshadj ปีที่แล้ว +1

    it actually depends how you define sin(x). it's common in analysis to define sin(x) as it's Maclaurin expansion and then use the simplification of dividing all the terms by x just leaving 1 + O(x) which goes to 1 as x goes to 0. it then becomes an exercise to prove that the Maclaurin series actually has the geometric properties of sin.

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Sure. At some point you have to make a geometric argument to connect the analytic and geometric sides of sin together, but there are multiple starting spots to do that.

    • @moshadj
      @moshadj ปีที่แล้ว

      It's actually really funny that in Baby Rudin, pi is defined as 2 times the smallest value for which cos is 0. Crazy backwards from the historical order of discovery.

  • @muratbilir4240
    @muratbilir4240 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What i do not understand in this proof is the simplification of pi terms in the equation showing the blue area. One pi term is angle in radians the other one is 3.14. Can you Please explain. Thank you in advance.

  • @flavioing1
    @flavioing1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Grazie.

  • @solaymanbhuiyan3993
    @solaymanbhuiyan3993 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    hi, I am currently in my first yr of A-level, and we(me and my physics class) were looking at young's double slit experiment last week Friday and we came across the d2/D for calculations and were told tan x ≈ sin x for very small angles; but, we weren't told why. I thought it was because,
    when x --> 0,
    cos x =1 , sin x = 0
    tan x = sin x / cos x = 0/1 = 0
    ∴ sin x = tan x , when x is a very small angle
    this is what I was thinking in my head in that lesson but graphically based on the CAST diagram from trig in my maths lesson
    i think this is what you were explaining in a more cool and fun way, I think (I didn't fully understand so i'm gonna rewatch this to understand and visualise this concept in my head.)
    also i think your videos are amazing and they don't make me feel like I need to wait until uni and 'out of my calibre' gutted feeling. (I wish i found out about this during gcse)
    Thank you!
    😊😊

  • @tikaglobal8192
    @tikaglobal8192 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Question;: when that all 3 part divide by sinx, suppose in the midle( x/2) be >>> x/2sinx why u erase 2 from that? Tq

  • @mathnerd97
    @mathnerd97 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    6:27 it's this part here that's the reason the limit only holds for sin measured in radians. And consequently, why d sin(x)/dx = cos(x) only holds in radians.

  • @tatithe609
    @tatithe609 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    In my country, we call this limit “first wondrous limit”. It’s beautiful. Made me study maths in uni.

    • @shernader
      @shernader 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Do you perhaps study in Russia or a slavic country? I'm studying in Russia and we too call it the First Wonderous Limit, or in russian Первый замечательный предел

    • @tatithe609
      @tatithe609 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@shernader i studied in Mongolia. I’m Mongolian. But it’s amazing to know that you call this the same there too. Probably we translated the name from Russian textbooks.

  • @sniperwolf50
    @sniperwolf50 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Using trig identities and the knowledge of the limit of sin x/x as x tends to zero, the limit (cos h - 1)/h as h tends to 0 can be found without a geometric argument

  • @smoke12785
    @smoke12785 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    this is the best sinx/x explanation I've ever seen

    • @robertveith6383
      @robertveith6383 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You need grouping symbols: sin(x)/x at least.

  • @arushibali7784
    @arushibali7784 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I really like the way you plotted graph. Can you please make a tutorial on how to install this software for plotting multiple graphs together. It's a request 🙏🙏

  • @ahmedzeribi7404
    @ahmedzeribi7404 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fun Fact: there is another way to approach the derivative of sin(x) without taking a limit, and by that I mean take the half derivative of sin(x) twice which leads to the first derivative of sin(x) in this case we find sin(x+1/2Pi) which is the same as cos(x), this approach uses the gamma function which uses the integrals instead of limits.

  • @MartinNolin-oo9kt
    @MartinNolin-oo9kt 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    2:59: Maple? Such an eco-friendly name!

  • @ericsbuds
    @ericsbuds 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    interesting!

  • @HenrikMyrhaug
    @HenrikMyrhaug 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I like to simply use the definition of a radian, which is an arc length of one radius along the perimeter of the circle.
    Since sin(x) is the height of a point along the circle as a function of the angle, and at very small angles, we can see that the edge of the circle is almost completely vertical, we can intuitively infer that for very small angles, the height of any point along the circle is approximately equal to the distance you have moved along the circle from an angle of 0, since for very small angles, you will be moving close to vertically. The distance you have travelled along the circle then also happens to be equivalent to the angle, as long as you use radians as the angle and measure height by number of radii(which for small numbers should be a small portion of the radius).

  • @lmao4982
    @lmao4982 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is the only one i remember from that class

  • @hemraj5893
    @hemraj5893 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You can write sin(x) - as exponential function then take the derivative of exponential. Since sin(x) = (e^ix - e^-ix)/(2i) it will solve the issue. Then you can go back and find the limit either by definition or L'Hôpitals.

    • @oxydoreduction2483
      @oxydoreduction2483 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Or u can just see that sin(x)/x= [sin(x)-0]/x-0 which converges towards sin’(0)=cos(0)=1

    • @carultch
      @carultch 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Are there ways of proving Euler's formula, that don't already depend on this limit? Because that could ultimately be seen as circular reasoning.
      The most common proof of Euler's formula uses the Taylor series of e^x, and evaluates it at x=i*theta, and compares it to the Taylor series of sin(theta) and cos(theta). Since this requires using the derivatives of trigonometry that both depend on this limit to be established, it would be circular reasoning to use Euler's formula unless there were an independent proof of it.

  • @nevokrien95
    @nevokrien95 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    most importemt limit is the seiries for e to the x as it basicly proves everything.
    the whole sin thing while cute is mostly unesscery once you intruduce complex numbers andthe diffrentiol equtions in phisics that use sine could just be solved with complex exponentiols

  • @odysseus9672
    @odysseus9672 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fun fact: the formula at 2:20 already uses a small angle approximation. Which one? Well, the supernova remnant is approximately a sphere. Those lines are tangent to the sphere, and it's a well known fact from geometry that: tangent lines are perpendicular to radii. A little parallel line reasoning reveals that the base of that triangle in the diagram cannot be the diameter of the sphere. What's the correct formula? I can't draw a diagram in a TH-cam comment, but it's:
    tan(delta/2) = (d/2) / sqrt(D^2 - (d/2)^2), or
    sin(delta/2) = (d/2) / D.

  • @garthreid355
    @garthreid355 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I know the geometric proof but have you ever thought about using the Maclaurin Series for sin(x) ? Using the power series is a nice method

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Ah true, but for that you need to know derivatives and for the derivative you need this limit!

    • @garthreid355
      @garthreid355 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DrTrefor That is true Dr, thanks for the reply

  • @chessandmathguy
    @chessandmathguy 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very nice. I was going to point out how you can't use L'Hopital's rule but looks like you went on to do it in the video. 🙂

  • @FTR0225
    @FTR0225 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The identity function is the first term in the Taylor expansion for sin(x)

  • @habddz
    @habddz 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    personally the easiest way to prove this formula is just to open excel, put x as 0.1...push x closer and closer to 0, and look at the trend of sinx/x. it will definitely be 1. Sometimes, i have no idea why they teach this in school when we can easily just use excel

  • @abdullahfaisal4389
    @abdullahfaisal4389 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can't I use the trigonometric relation
    sin u - sin v = 2cos ((u+v)/2) sin ((u-v)/2)
    for evaluating derivative of sine function and getting away with this circular reasoning thingy??!

  • @fredericdesalpes5824
    @fredericdesalpes5824 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for these vidéo.... this limit is OK if X in Radian ! ! Don’t forget it ! Soon....Fred

  • @elliotdewitt9505
    @elliotdewitt9505 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why is there are equality sign, I didn’t understand? I think that areas can’t really be equal at any points.
    Will appreciate your help.

  • @realyodaad
    @realyodaad 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    There's no way around it, math is so cool!

  • @vnknovn
    @vnknovn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How can you divide by sin(x) without changing the direction of the inequalities if sin(x)

    • @vnknovn
      @vnknovn 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You divide by x and fix the problem. I was too fast, you could have make a comment on that tho, otherwise the step in min 7:08 isn't so clear. The inequalities stay because you divide by xsin(x), which is greater than 0 when x approaches 0

  • @soorajm9998
    @soorajm9998 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sir, how could we give colour for 3D graphs. It appears all dark

  • @BigOttomatic
    @BigOttomatic 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cos(0)/1 = 1, very neat

  • @costelnica3988
    @costelnica3988 ปีที่แล้ว

    Please how do we prove lim x->0 (cos(x)-1)/x)=0?

  • @Fandikusnadi1979
    @Fandikusnadi1979 ปีที่แล้ว

    propotion x / 2pi , how it come ? kindly explain.

  • @smalin
    @smalin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    When I read the title, I considered a unit circle at the origin. The angle x would be the length of an arc starting at (1,0), and sin(x) would be the length of a vertical line from the x-axis to end of that arc. As the angle gets smaller, the difference between the two lengths gets smaller. At the limit, the arc doesn’t diverge from the vertical line. I was surprised that the video didn’t mention this (especially since it said “geometric proof”).

    • @thetrickster42
      @thetrickster42 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well his 'pizza slice' construction is a sector of the unit circle, and he basically spends most of his time spelling out why the ratio of the arc to the vertical line is 1.
      Noting that they both get closer doesn't tell you anything about the limit of their ratio because they're both approaching 0, so the ratio 'at the limit' is 0/0. That's why he goes to the extra effort.

  • @rikthecuber
    @rikthecuber 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Professor. If the binomial expansion is defined only for rational exponents, then how do we find the derivatives of form x^a where a is IRRATIONAL?
    Can we have a power rule for that?

    • @DrTrefor
      @DrTrefor  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You have to use limits. FOr instance thinking of irrational numbers as the limit of a sequence of rational numbers.

    • @rikthecuber
      @rikthecuber 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DrTrefor How do we expand that? Like for sqrt(2), there is no pattern in the decimals.

  • @lucadelsorbo5609
    @lucadelsorbo5609 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I don't quite understand why he was able to label that line tan(x) in the proof, someone care to explain?

  • @shyamdas6231
    @shyamdas6231 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sir, some teachers argue that we should not use L' Hospital's Rule here because this limit is used to find derivative of cosx. This becomes a circular arguement then.

  • @nixonkutz3018
    @nixonkutz3018 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    So is it accurate to say that the the rules captured in the mnemonic SOHCAHTOA (Sin = Opposite/Hypot, Cos=Adjacent/Hypot, Tan=Opposite/Adjacent) are truly the "definitions" of those quantities? It seems like that's what you're saying, at least from a geometric perspective. Are there algebraic definitions that are different, or derived from these "definitions?" For example, the Taylor series expansion of the functions sin() and cos().

    • @gregoryfenn1462
      @gregoryfenn1462 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, SOHCAHTOA is the definition for the trig functions. The taylor series for sin(x) can be computed after proving that sin'(x) = cos(x)