What If The F-14 Tomcat Wasn't Retired | INTERCEPT | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
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Just playing around with the idea of Tomcats armed with AMRAAMs what do you guys think could the mighty Tomcat have been even deadly if she wasn't retired?
Grinnelli F-22 Raptor VS Nine North Korean MIG-29's BVR
Mig-29 using AGM-65 Mavericks
I often have dreams of the Tomcat in combat with AIM-120s. My version of soft core p0rn. The Delta variant would have been a beast.
Maybe it would have been more fun if both had Tomcats but one had Phoenixes and the other AMRAAMs (then switch around pilots to control for skill). Then missile superiority could be demonstrated.
PLEASE fly The MIG-28 against The MIG-29 Guns Only Dogfight!😁🙏
Russian Top Gun!😆👍 Let's see You Differential Thrust The MIG-28/F-5 with it's engine's so close together! Really like the idea of Older Fictional VS Newer Real! Both MIG's flying their Soviet/Russian colors of their time! It'll be a good challenge for You! ;)
Oh how I miss the Tomcat. I was at the last demo ever performed at NAS Oceana for the Tomcat and it was always my favorite. Love the Hornet but there was something about the Tomcat and it’s roar that made it so unique. Love the videos, keep ‘em coming!
We need the F14D so badly. The tomcat would be absurdly good with modern avionics in DCS.
@@robmoore423 idk man, it would make all my other DCS purchases redundant. You’d have to drag me out of the deltas cockpit
"now includes reclining seat so you can sleep in it"
My favorite fighter of all time
Used to live in VAbeach miss the tomcats buzzing the house
I like to think that somewhere, in an alternate universe where Dick Cheney was never SECDEF, ASF-14s are flying, and that because they're upgraded and still in service, the Phoenix got upgrades too.
If the Tomcat was still around today, it would have been a candidate for the MDBA _Meteor_ missile. Now *THAT* would be very nasty combination to deal with in a BVR right.
Would have been neat if the AIM-152 had continued development
Yes to both. This is beautiful. 🥺🇺🇸
I choose to believe there is a parallel universe somewhere out there where this loadout actually saw service.
The C phoenixes got an update and they can go active on their own now. Supposedly they're tougher to notch as well. Maybe try testing those out?
They perform like shit now thoug
The AIM54C has been improved in range and speed. In addition, target acquisition has also been further improved.
The AIM54A already shot down a target 110 NM away in the test.
Of course, the AIM54 was not designed to track jets, but it is often presented worse than necessary.
On the other hand, the whole thing becomes superfluous when in recent times when the mission profile changes. Since missiles were no longer allowed to be fired at very long distances, the main advantage of the F14 is gone and many younger jets would have a clear advantage due to the more modern weapons.
AIM120 vs. AIM7 is already a clear deficit.
Still, I love the F14, even in DCS it's just fun to fly the F14.
GS, as long as you're around, the Tomcat will never be "retired" 😁
Tomcat with aim-120s sounds terrifying.
Imagine a Tomcat with AIM-120s AND AESA...
@@AirShark95 imagine the radar signature and cost of operating it
@@AirShark95
And FBW
@@thurbine2411 Radar signature is irrelevant when you're pumping out a bazillion GigaWatts of AESA. Also blasting electrons all over the place actually makes the 5th Gen more effective as they get lost in the noise.
Also thinking maybe trying what the meteors would be like on the Tomcat. Like GS done with the F-15 recently.
I really hope someone makes a ST-21 module for DCS
Yes please
Even if its just visual
The performances of that proposed versions were fairy tales by Grumman, desperate to remain in the fighter business. A real Tomcat 21 doesn't exist, and thus such a module for DCS would be inaccurate to say the least.
@@andreabindolini7452 the F15E Strike Eagle was a McDonnell-Douglas fairy tale in the mid-1980s until the Air Force actually decided to buy them. Low and behold, it turns out to be a stellar mutli-role fighter. The Navy never got the funding for Tomcat upgrades or new builds. The USAF has 230 F15Es and is looking at between 80 and 144 newer F15EX planes. That ignores the export variants of the E model.
By comparison, the Navy had a grand total of 37 F14D's and 18 upgrades to D configuration. The Tomcat never got the chance to show off its potential.
@@Clean97gti read better
You've got to wonder what the F-14 in DCS would be like with the APG-71...
i love the tomcats little beep noises, its like the aircraft is talking to the pilot (or screaming at them to defend)
The speed made all the difference. Your missile came off the rail faster but also your able to use your speed to defend and his lack of speed meant he couldn’t run.
Hmmm... I seem to remember that VX-4 back in the early 90's flew Tomcats with AIM-120. Although I do not recollect seeing them loaded in the fleet birds, but my attention was more focused on my own work.
They did - but in the end the decision was made to prioritize the targeting pod instead of the AIM-120 for the fleet. Which makes perfect sense given the conflicts we were in at the time.
Man, now I want Heatblur to do a what if? thing where they take all the available literature, and create Super Tomcat 21 in DCS.
I’m digging your videos with tackview man. They add an extra level with you delving into it and explaining stuff. Great stuff man
A great what-if scenario, Growling.
Even if the Tomcat wasn't retired in 2006, it probably would've been retired in 2007 or 2008.
Northrop Gruman had many great ideas for the Tomcat, but the USN's interest in it was getting smaller and smaller.
This isn’t true. The USN still had significant interest in the F-14 and it was planned to stay in service up until the F-35 was introduced.
The Department of the Navy actually fought congress to maintain the F-14D(R) program to supplement carrier squadrons for at least a decade. Unfortunately they lost that battle.
@@HolyNorthAmericanEmpire This is totally true is you completely ignore the fact that the tomcat was well suited to ground strikes. I've heard numerous pilots and RIOs that went on to fly Rhinos say that the tomcat was the most lethal aircraft on the carrier deck when it was retired.
@@HolyNorthAmericanEmpire Also not true. The Tomcat wasn’t obsolete because by 2006 it was no longer acting as a fleet defense fighter and hadn’t been since the early 90s. It was a premier strike fighter of the USN that really made its mark in Kosovo, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The F-14 was never made obsolete. The reason it was retired was because of cost and maintenance issues.
@@augiehicks4588 And Dick Cheney - that was the catalyst
@@augiehicks4588 Sadly, cost and maintenance must always be factored in. I love the Tomcat, period. I’m not particularly fond of the Hornet. However- being able to afford to field in force, maintain, and when necessary, replace the main aviation assets one has in play is essential. Hate to say it, but focusing on the Hornet may have been the wisest move.
The US Navy chose the LANTRIN pod over AMRAAM integration for the F-14. They could only get funding for one capability, and the LANTRIN Tomcat was considered much more effective for the threat.
and it was much more efficient by a mile
I love watching the tac view. Seeing it play out with all the numbers is satisfying. Kind of like watching a starcraft replay.
I'd love to see an AIM-120D on a F-14D.
I plan on running for president on this as my entire platform
This video makes me wish someone would create a Grumman proposed ST-21 module and what the tomcat could have been if it were chosen over the super hornet.
That'll be fantastic, I'm willing to pay whole price to it~
This is would be pure Aviation porn.
The cleaner cockpit alone would make dogfights a lot easier.
Yea i just imagine an F-15E cockpit in a tomcat. Plus all the other upgrades Grumman wanted to do
I'm so happy we have DCS for us aviation nerds :)
Though I don’t play it, same bro.
(I plan to begin my Dcs journey soon)
@@macaroniwithdachickenstrip8684 good luck, cause you'll need it
@@nighpaw4651 Thanks man, I’m a preteen but I’m gonna try my best
@@macaroniwithdachickenstrip8684 just to warn you it's an expensive hobby i'm a teen as well and each plane is like 70 bucks you will also want a hotas and i'm assuming you don't have $500 to blow on that so if you want a really cheap one get the tflight hotas x (the quality isn't the best) but if you want to go up a bit more for a nicer one get the thrustmaster t16000m
I would also recommend starting out with something like the hornet because it basically flys it self and is a pretty good plane you can also get the f16 which is a better a/a platform but in the end you can get any plane you want
If you're playing with the Not-Quite-F14D Tomcat, I'd love to see a Bombcat mission. There was a concept to turn the Super Tomcat into a Navy analog of the F15E Strike Eagle for ground attack missions, would love to see the concept played with in DCS.
Just thinking about a Tomcat armed with 4 fuselage mounted AIM-120s and a pair of AIM-54s on the wing gloves. In theory the Phoenixes having the longer range could send the opponent defensive even earlier, allowing you to close distance for some very deadly 120s and they would probably never get a chance to fire anything at you… in theory.
Phoenixes would have been upgraded as well- ..and would be extremely powerful
Seeing amraams and phoenixes would have been cool
The AIM-152 AAAM would've been the best of both worlds: the range of the Phoenix with the profile of an AMRAAM. They could've been carried on the six Sparrow launchers, greatly reducing weight and drag since the Phoenix pallets wouldn't have been necessary. Plus, it would've been only moderately slower than a Phoenix (Mach 4 vs Mach 5) and would've cost less.
Also it's important to remember that the Phoenix was designed to take out bomber and large cruise missile targets, not nimble fighters. Hence the emphasis on payload of warhead, range and seeker power (to burn through ECM better) versus maneuverability and seeker discrimination.
GS has gone out against this sentiment in previous Phoeenix videos - after burnout, maneuverability is a function of airspeed and fin area only, and the Phoenix has very large fins and very high speed
@@dsdy1205 At high speeds, your turn radius increases exponentially (current Amraams have a comparable top speed). That said, the missile was not that agile. It was heavy, with a high frontal cross section and poor ballistic coefficient. Those are compromises to fit a big warhead and a big motor. An effective terminal correction maneuver could have been impossible, especially at low altitude, where the drag was at maximum. The max load factor was poor: 18 g for the AIM-54A, 21-25 g for the AIM-54C. An Amraam, even of the first versions, can reach 40 g. Actually, the Phoenix was so ineffective against fighers that, in DACT trainings, F-15 and F-16 pilots were instructed to simply ignore it.
right, forgot about the g-limit >< where did you find those DACT training anecdotes?
Digging the addition lately with the simple Tactical recaps at the end dude.
Kinda wish the AIM-120D could make an appearance. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if they couldn't have figured out a way to tool the Phoenix cradle to hold 2-3 on a special pylon to turn the Tomcat into an Ace Combat plane long before the F-15EX.
The other option is AIM-120s plus added bombs. The Tomcat could also do ATG missions when given the ability, which it did in the early 2000s.
It's amazing how the Tomcat dominated the SU-27 all fight in terms of speed, let alone the radar.
It's because the tomcat knows how to Naruto run
@@constablemittens Take your dirty upvote
AIM-54+AIM-120 would be very very powerful to break up enemy formations BVR and follow it up as you close.
If the F-14 was still around, we'd still have AIM-54 alive.
An old cat always could use bigger and sharper fangs!
Awesome video. My all time favorite what if .The F-110 powered Tomcat was the equal of any Flanker. Adding a modern missile to it completes the package Thank you. I really enjoyed this.
I really like when you show slo-mo & different views of the actual kills. Sometimes it's very revealing as to exactly what happened.
Yes!!! Thank you for the Tacview debrief, thought you had stopped doing those altogether
The videos are really slapping, loving the Mig 15 and WWII stuff
All are very much appreciated !
Can we appreciate how MEAN the Cat looks with 6 AMRAAMs strapped onto it?
f14 the best plane from the navy
That's why I love Raytheon's AIM-152 AAAM proposal for the F-14. The seeker of an AMRAAM, the engine style of a Meteor, and the range of a Phoenix, all in a relatively compact package all things considered and compared to the Phoenix. Plus, F-15s and YF-23s could've carried them.
Do an F-14 loadout with a HAWK missile, an AIM-120, AIM-7, and AIM-54.
If it's possible.
2:02 - I know that he's using military speak (BRA), but the way the tone of the voice line reads "There's, uh, Bandit, brah" honestly makes Joker sound like he's completely baked.
Jester, but yes lol he’s at times, very annoying
@@GrowlingSidewinder Ah, shoot, I should've double checked the name.
F14 will never be retired in our hearts lol 😆
Meanwhile in Iran those same Tomcats are carrying Russian missiles now lmaooo
Back in the day playing US Navy Fighters on PC, one could load up a Tomcat with AMRAAMS. Never used Sparrows bc of it.
Thanks for making the Mig 29 Astra video like I requested 👍🏻
Indian Air force has finished putting the Astra Missile on Mig29UPG now and the Navy will soon do the same with its Mig29K
Please make a video on Mig 29 Astra Missile against Chinese Fighters!!!!
Also India is procuring 114 Twin Engine Multi Role Fighters and the competitors are F15EX, Rafale, EF Typhoon. Can You make a video on who is better?
BVR and Dogfight?
Thanks for making this banger video GS.
What if...they kept the F-14 and upgraded not only the aircraft but the AIM-54 as well? The Phoenix already out speeds and out range the AMRAAM and upgrades to the seeker and avionics would put it in another league.
Well it is a huge missile and insanely expensive. It was Never built to turn well with fighter aircraft i suppose
IDK, if you're going fictional, you might as well put the Meteor on the Tomcat. 🙂
the fact that you were above mach 1 nose hot and he was not.. and also being inside your mar.... 😳 thats the "Ohh Crapola" moment that spells SPLASH
There was a program called Advanced Air-to-Air Missile, which was to replace the AIM-54 Phoenix, for the Tomcats.
Ramjet propulsion, 180 nm range, radar/home-on-jam/IR guidance with mid course updating, what a beast that would’ve been!
@@FS2K4Pilot and last I heard they would have been smaller and lighter than the Phoenix, in addition to longer range
Tomcat D with meteor missile wouldnt hurt the feels..
Don't break my heart with a title like that!
The range of the phoenix is much larger than AMRAM. If it was me, I would have taken 2 phoenix missiles to shoot at 70-60 and 60-50 miles. This would have force the bogey defensive sooner so the AMRAM could be launched at a closer range.
That would be $3,000,000 in decoy missiles.
The AIM-120D has comparable range
@@281cu6
But if you spend 10M to kill 30M, and you clear the battle space, that value is priceless...
@@281cu6 If it saves a pilot, then its worth it. Their training is quite expensive. Not to mention the plane itself.
Current AMRAAMS AIM-120D have an effective range that almost equal the Phoenix. And are FAR more effective.
F-14B vs Su-33
Fleet Defense
Solo F-14B defending a carrier from a Tu-160 bomber and a Su-33.
F-14 Solo because carrier damage from previous engagement. But in a set amount of time that you all choose the carrier will be able to launch other aircraft (F-18s and F-14s). This will keep the Su-33 honest and not able to constantly notch putting the bomber at risk and being at risk for other scrambling aircraft. The F-14 on the other hand has to defend the fleet from cruise missiles and from a superior aircraft, but it will do it with the F-14s strengths. Bomber is main objective, if bomber goes down without an impact on the carrier F-14 wins. Any hit on the carrier Su-33 wins.
F-14 without AIM-54s is like a garden without flowers. The Armed forces should have REAAAALLY spent time refining and enhancing that weapon.
I see TOMCAT in the title I press PLAY
Probably never gonna try DCS, but I love watching your videos
I read that all that was required was to roll out software updates for the F-14D in order to carry the AIM120 however they decided to prio the lantirn pod instead.
The TH-cam algorithm sure does love you. Your video came out 48 mins ago for the past 8 hours XD
Updated radar/missiles and the ability to communicate with the F35c would have made it a nasty fleet defence aircraft! God forbid they went with the Super Tomcat
I'm still waiting for the day Sidewinder makes a video where he flies the MiG-31
Jester is a treat, "Here we go!"
i would love to see the f14 with upgraded engines, upgraded avionics and weapons systems .. along with a more powerful radar.
Grumman had a plan for it. Go look up the Advanced Super Tomcat and cry with me over what could have been.
@@HolyNorthAmericanEmpire it actually would have had an RCS comparable to a Super Hornet.
@@HolyNorthAmericanEmpire yes, the Tomcat does. The Advanced Super Tomcat would have utilized new geometries and radar absorbent materials to reduce the RCS, in much the sake way that was done between the legacy Hornet and the Super Hornet.
Last Tomcat squads did not have operational AMRAAMs as far as I understand it. The idea was there, but the Navy used the budget allocated for the amraam to put the targeting pods on there instead and making it more of a precision strike fighter and FAC-A platform.
Sometimes I think the numbers that are presented in terms of maintenance costs are inflated. If Iran can keep the F-14's they have airworthy, you would think so could the US Navy.
Don't forget the Iranians aren't slamming them into Carrier decks, they probably have much, much less stringent standards on things like fatigue and engine hours too.
I had a co worker that served in the USN early 2000's - on a carrier, pacific fleet. Pretty sure it was the Kittyhawk.
He was a Greenshirt, Catapult/arresting gear. Anyway, his was one of the last ships to have the F14 aboard,
He mentioned that the 14s did spend more time on the hanger deck than the 18Cs they had.
@@stinkyfungus very usual when an aircraft is in its end of service, parts become way more difficult to come across, and the flaws of the F-14 were never given a solution because they were killing the program. I am pretty confident that given the ST-21 updates the F-14 would only be 10-20% more expensive than the F-18's while far more air to air capable.
“Airworthy” is subjective. The IAF ordered 80 F14As and received 79. Only 40 are still operational with 20 being deemed “fully mission capable” and 20 being “partially mission capable”. I wouldn’t say that’s comparable to USN standards. The F14A had significantly lower operational costs compared to the F14D. If the USN was still using the A model in 2006, I doubt it would’ve been retired given the D model was retired for being too expensive to maintain. The IAF tomcats are not used on carriers nor used as frequently as USN tomcats were. It makes sense why the IAF can still keep some flying while the USN didn’t see a reason to keep it in service.
The First AMRAAM fired was from a F-14 but it was never carried by fleet F-14s they need a 1553 data bus to carry the missile so they traded the AIM 120 for LANTRIN which made better use of the tomcat on the battlefield they were fighting in at the time.
BVR with this IA it's a blast ... trully a challenge now IA launching in TWS
You answered my BVR questions before I even came up with them in my head. The US Navy is going to regret decommissioning the Tomcat the second the next pacific conflict erupts. The Tomcat 21 with all new avionics and the AMRAAM D. A dream. Cheers! Good fight as always.
F35 is way better now
It seems that the F-14D did in its last days occasionally carry the Aim-9X.
It didn't. IT only was qualified to carry the AIM-9M. The 9X wasn't qualified for ANY aircraft until 2005/2006 era Hornets and Vipers.
@@joshuagarcia874 I would be inclined to believe you, however you can find an interview where a Tomcat Pilot states that his F-14D carried the Aim-9X but it had no HMS.
I will track down the interview and post it here.
@@joshuagarcia874
Here you go
watch?v=YJW5As4Os4U&t=1357s
Watch around 25 min.
I don't feel you had enough AIM-120s in the air. I thought that was the main point of replacing the AIM-54s with them.
But seriously though, is it feasible to replace each Phoenix with 2 AMRAAMs?
They did test fitting with dual rack AIM-120s on the 1 and 8 stations where the AIM-7s normally went.
Since the AMRAAM is similar in dimension to an AIM-7 (smaller in diameter but similar length and fin arrangement), it could have easily been carried in the Sparrow recesses on the bottom on the F-14 fuselage rather than on the detachable Phoenix pallets (as in this video), thus reducing weight. GS, does DCS allow for that? Might be worth trying that in order to gain that small bit of additional weight savings.
Feeling like the next video will be the Viper armed with phoenixes
I agree if the Tomcat had still been around now it would have been reengined. Better avionics and sensors. Possibly drop the RIO (Which means substantially lighter) it would have been AMAZING except for a lack of stealth. Heck an F14 "EX" as it were.
They wouldn't have dropped the backseater for the same reason we have the 18F. Modern Tomcats would have moved fully into the Strike Fighter role.
I used differential thrust to rescue a cat from a tree!
that was really cool
better interceptor than anything currently on the carriers.
Maybe someone should do a modern update to 2022 tech on the AIM-54. Call it the AIM-54F for fantasy
A modern Tomcat with all the upgraded avionics, higher thrust engines, radars, and weapons would solve the fighter problem the Navy has.
Been a while since we got to listen to Jester lose his calm in the back seat!
Your channel is awesome!
Fact
Can you try differential thrust in the su-57? It's got a similar engine placement as the f-14 but being even more agile.
Solid!
Top KEK!
Ughhh I loveee that plane!
The F-14 Tomcat shouldn't have retired.
It definitely was the right call
F-14E new build airframes with AESA, electronic flight controls to tune out the Tomcats nastier habits, F-35 style avionics, AIM-260’s etc. Would be awesome but the RCS would probably be a deal breaker.
Yeah! An incredible long large range interceptor, something like the Mig-31 but more versatile! 😁
If the tomcat would be updated with the aim-120 it could carry 10 of them and 2 sidewinders!!! A beast! But the us gov decide to chose the cheaper and weaker hornet…..
More Tomcat content plz
Aw shucks, G.S., yur juss an ol' tomcat softie, aitcha?
This scenario was fleshed out when Israel modified the F-5's Brazil has. These aircraft are now BVR capable and can also carry the Python-5.
Cool tac view is back
Right On
Technically the Tomcat isn't retired, although Iran owns it. It's technically still in service and we can always get it back. Not our first time stealing;)
Is there any way you could provide the files to make this loadout? Seems like it could be fun in single player
Nice video 😃.
Can you make a video on Tejas ,the Indian light combat aircraft.
It would be nice .😊
If the f14 had a more convenient radar system/avionics like su27 or f16/15/18 then it would be clearly superior besides the ability to track IR signatures in the 27 and fire longer range IR missiles
Also consider bringing the f14d
You should do the Tomcat vs Mirage again now that you've been doing differential thrust
So, what's the most frankenstein-ish combination of plane and missile combination possible in dcs? Will GS try it? Next video maybe? ^^
F-22 with Meteor for long range and Python 5 for close range looping around back to follow target?
Had to stay for the tac review tobsee if you shot first
I wonder what meteors could do on a Tomcat?
They haven't been destroyed and it would be a matter of updates or understanding steam dials
@@Rockethead293 look in the desert. Mothballed.
How did you get the amraam?
Grinnelli F-22 Raptor VS Nine North Korean MIG-29's BVR!👍
A Job for Two Morons!
F-35 running SEAD against Russian SAM site's while F-22 runs air-air security against Two Patrolling SU-35's and Two Scrambled MIG-31's!👍
what would be the point ? F-22 doesnt carry enough missiles for that make that flight of 2 Raptors or a Raptor and F-35 and maybe
@@Asghaad lol F-22 carries 8 missiles so yeah GS will have to kill the last one possibly two with guns! The point is a freakin challenge!
Ultimate Tomcat load 2x AIM-54s on the wing pylons. 4x AIM-120Ds between the engines, and the 2x 9Xs on each wing..
Cause fuck you at every range
kinda fight of modernized dinosaurs
Im surprised you didnt launch them like you would in the F-16 at those extreme ranges and altitudes...figured an 80nm shot at 45k wouldnt be too far out of the realm of possibilities for the 14.