@elizabethschilling7402 May you find a small group of true Christ followers who love the Lord with all their hearts, minds, and souls, and where the Lord can bless others through you. And may He help all of us who’ve been displaced out of our home churches through the works of evil.
My reasons for leaving my Assembly of God church of 40 years: the shift in the last 20 years towards an Inaccessibility of the pastor to the sheep, the lack of transparency in the accounting of how finances are handled, the shift towards a friendly-seeker church model, a move away from congregational governing to autocratic top heavy CEO in charge style, shift from a friendly, lighted up sanctuary to a painted black ceiling, club atmosphere, strobe lights, and theater-like "stage," the removal of the altar, church staff acting like celebrities who are a notch above the sheep, the revolving door phenomenon of the congregation, the statistics boasting, the trend towards a very low view of Holy Scriptures, and on and on it goes!
@@paulahurst7145 I agree on several of your points. I have been wrestling a lot with this. Also, nothing wrong with being young, but I have noticed how young an entire staff may be. Questioning: Where are the Godly, older fathers giving wisdom and training the younger. There may be some in the congregation but rarely or very few on staff.
I to left the Assembly of God church , after 60 some years, began to see how it had begun to change . Now have found a church, that teach the word of God verse by verse. Never ask for money or sign a membership card. A box on the wall in the foyer for offerings. Praise God .
After 32 years of faithfully going to church every Sunday and Wednesday. Serving and giving 10% or more today I am finally free! The last church we went for 7 years were all about money and power hunger. I am done with that. I pray and continue to give but not to a church. I was born to be free, no more lies, no more manipulation, just God. 🙏🙏
Us too. The greed and hunger for more money was getting ridiculous. We always gave way over 10% also. My husband actually preached one time yet he never had a face to face meeting with the pastor. We met people at the church who had gone there for years and had never had a conversation with the pastor or his wife but would be called out in church hey you, the lady in the red jacket. 🤦♀️🤦♀️. We walked away but felt very sad for our friends bc of the manipulation they had bought into. We want good, Biblical Word teachings. Our eyes have been opened drastically and for that we are very thankful for. Focusing on God!!!!
Gaslighting and manipulation, and working one small group against the other instead of bringing the body together in unity as one, seems to be one of the tactics in their playbooks.
For me, it was like leaving church to grow closer to God. I grew closer to Him by spending more time alone with Him, & very little time thinking about who others thought i should be. After a long journey, i now cautiously visit churches or ministries to fellowship a bit. Not joining anything, tho.
And I am sure that along the way, you've become aware of how to spot the red flags that signal apostasy. I'm not trying to sound like I have a critical spirit, but I know I sure have.
@@paulahurst7145 yes! I saw your comment below too, you are so spot on. What you described is everywhere in the churches, leaving organized church has nothing to do with my walk with Christ, I’ve gotten closer and more grounded with Him from doing so. When He was showing me a lot of this, I thought I was over exaggerating or “critical”, He had to convince me that it was Him opening my eyes to see and it was honestly a reality that was disheartening and took time to process or even wrap my mind around. I’m glad to know I’m not alone, there are many of us that the Lord has been showing the same thing and taking us back to the pure simple way of worship which is discipleship and walking in His ways through our transformative relationship with Him.
I stopped going to a church a long time ago, no longer filled a need, but rather left me wondering what has happened. I study and read my Bible at home, when I want fellowship I seek true believers of like precious faith, the apostasy is in the churches.
@@donnaleveron5711 Serious question not to just yourself but others with similar comments...where do you find these believers to fellowship with? How does a Christian grow in spiritual maturity if life is void of everyday trials, tests and temptations to overcome...by avoiding them? 1 Peter 1:6-7 (NKJV) In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, IF NEED BE, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ. If Jesus was made perfect by the things He suffered...why would we, His church imagine that in avoiding these challenges...that we are sincerely seeking perfection through avoidance? The church of Paul's day were predominantly home fellowship groups but with the same issues that prevail today with false doctrine, false teachers and prophets, covetousness, sexual sin etc. So it's not down to mega or mini fellowships creating these real issues, but our own flesh.
In my 60s and I'm with you. I get it but for now I'm praying and waiting. While I'm waiting I'm finding ways to love on others and worshiping our LORD sincerely.
Right there with you. Praying. And at the risk of sounding cynical, my fear is that, just as in the days of old when God had to completely tear down the temple building, dispel Israel, and all their waywardness to rid them of apostasy, so it is with the harlot church. Deconstruction will continue, but the true remnant will remain true and emerge.
This conversation is so vague. You aren't giving specifics of WHY you left the church. Why did you write off ALL churches because of your father's church. I belong to a wonderful church that preaches the word. If a person really wants to know the truth they will find it. You can't make someone believe. Sorry, but you are not helping the lost by suggesting all churches are bad in one way or another. Where do you suggest the lost go to find the truth. What is your answer for that. I mean no offense, but you are the author of confusion and that isn't of the Lord. The Bible is so plain, homosexualiry is a sin, adultery is a sin, stealing is a sin, but all can be forgiven if one repents. Jesus, came to people where they were, but He NEVER left them in their sin. I don't know your heart, but this is not good for the cause of Christ.
You're lucky to have a good church! As a believer and church goer, finding a good bible believing , bible teaching church is not at all easy! And then you have the churches were the leaders want to be rock stars, you have your clicks that aren't to welcoming to newcomers, they spend thousands of dollars to put in coffee bars and high tech stages with no altar, and of course all the sin being allowed in the churches by their members and staff with no biblical correction or authority. These things should never take place in God's house and only turns away new believers seeking God and truth! And to answer your question, we're do new believers go to find truth, that would be the Word of God because there aren't to many churches out there preaching truth and I reiterate, your lucky if you truly have that.
This young man is profoundly confused; he only speaks word salads. I certainly will not be buying or recommending his book. Julie, you dropped the ball on this one.
What do you mean that “there are parts of the Bible that don’t make sense”???? This fellow needs to be clearer about the fact that there ARE answers to these questions but pastors either don’t know them or are mad that people are asking them. I wish the interviewee answered more specifically and clearly.
I agree more specific examples would really help. God welcomes us to come to Him and ask anything. “Now we see through a glass dimly…” Yes, much in the Bible is straightforward. Some churches can look and sound so “right” but have areas that could use God’s light shining on the dark areas…if they are open and humble to correction and to growing in the knowledge of God.
Very good point! I seems that the man who interviewed this young man was a bit afraid and confused at this poor guys words salad and brat like attitude... typical pastor's son...
Honestly, please read Bonhoeffer’s “The Cost of Discipleship”. Grace is not cheap. Jesus was not afraid of confronting sin and did. It is not cheap. It will cost you everything. Has it cost Jamin everything? Has it cost any of us everything? That is something for every Christian to think about. It is true of all of us. It is costly. Why, Lance, didn’t you mention to Jamin that being a Christian is costly. That is why the interview was so confusing to me. Because, Lance, you allowed him to tell his story as if it were a valid argument against the church, and it is not. And then promoted his book, which could be ill advised. Jamin is confused about what it means to be a Christian. Hurting perhaps. But did you have to validate him?
I finished listening and he basically was being told that it's wrong for asking questions that people (pastors) could not answer or felt uncomfortable. I'd appreciate that terms are defined. What do you mean "deconstruction"?
I understand when the focus in church seems to be the Lord or maybe is in some areas, but then there is a disconnect in other areas where either the pastors at a church have to be “right”, or are respectfully ignorant of abuse in marriage and families, mental health, etc. So when giving advice, counseling, they do not actually walk in God’s love and ways when for instance, say to stay in abuse at the risk are harm for spouses and kids. I have my own experience and I am in ministry at the same church but different campus. I am in the process for a long time trying to be heard to affect Godly change. We are the body of Christ and need to be lifting each other up, not kicking down someone in crisis. I hope this helps to make sense of some of what is being said. My heart is that God be lifted up.🙏
Its not just evangelicals who are both questioning and leaving. One doesn't always give up on God or His word. They get hurt by the people in such a place called "the church" and some days, feel more of Christ by being alone and fully dependent on Him, researching Biblical perspective, reading His word and praying for His guidance. We are to show ourselves studied and approved, to trust Him fully...some people will continue to be so hard hearted IN THE CHURCH that they contribute to not winning souls or losing those who attend regularly and financially support the church.
Speaking as a person who went through spiritual abuse and shame for years. I am deeply disappointed you aired this program. It is sadly clear this young man was hurt, and it is a tragedy that happens all too often. His faith is shaken, and he is confused. My brother went down the same road and now doesn't believe the Bible is God's Word or that Jesus is the son of God. This young man is on a dangerous path and will lead others astray. His advice for pastors is to leave the ministry to help ones who have been hurt is wrong on so many levels. It is a huge mistake to put our faith in people. We need to accept God's Word by faith. We might not always understand it. The Bible promises to give us wisdom if we ask God. I still have trust issues with pastors and churches. But God has never let me down. He is full of mercy and grace. Pastors need to shower those who have been hurt with God's love. Not leave the ministry
I have been through many years of spiritual abuse as well. I am actually happy to see this conversation happen. People need freedom to talk honestly in order for the conversation to happen. Conflict is very scary after abuse. But being able to talk to one another in love is a healing place to start. Church as a whole needs to wake up or this trend with the churches will continue. Sending prayers to you. And I lift our churches and leader up in prayer as well.
Hi, Michele. Immaturity is the true condition of the church in America. There's also shallowness and defensiveness. I tried in many ways to fit in, while still seeking the Lord. It can't work. I don't understand people who are comfortable in that kind of church life. Maybe it's good I'm a little bit autistic. We tend to see things differently.
What is truth? Seek and you shall find...who do you say Jesus? Organized church is not the same as the Body of Christ. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, MIND, and strength. My relationship with God in Christ Jesus, sustained by the Holy Spirit, helps me overcome my unbelief, questions, and weaknesses. The Bible is the honest revelation of God that helps me navigate as I journey through this flawed world and my own shortcomings. I could do without organized, business formated church, but I could not imagine my life without my faith in Christ, God's Word, and the fellowship of believers who are the REAL Church of the living God. Blessings to all❤
I’m not really dying to stay in church, though I’ve been faithfully there since 1979. I want to stay home but I feel compelled by obedience to Hebrews where it says to not “forsake the assembling of yourselves together as some are in the habit of doing”. Except the dissonance is becoming deafening. I can barely physically stay in the building, I feel repulsed by so much that is going on. So many being made “twice as much a son of hell” Matt 23:15 as pharisaical pastors reproduce pharisaical followers. Something has to give. If we just keep going we will maintain the status quo, and nothing will change. I have a lot of respect for people like Jamin who are brave enough to speak out.
@maggyjpnes4749 That’s about Jerusalem the harlot, not the church. There is really no such thing as a corrupt church, spiritually speaking (though we think so by outward appearances). Those who seek to corrupt it are no longer considered a part of it by Christ. Unlike Israel, which could be unfaithful while still being Israel, those who are unfaithful in the body of Christ simply aren’t a part of it anymore. John writes about this in his letters.
This interview was not helpful in understanding anything new. He didn’t say anything he disagreed with the churches about and he also had no advice for pastors. Just more confusing- does he believe the Bible fully but has issues with ways the church operates? Cause that’s me but I can name specific things- he didn’t name any 🤷🏻♀️
He did. He said that he does not like gay being killed in the Bible. He does not know why they were killed. I guess he wasn't a Christian. He will find an answer soon. Because the Bible is clear on that matter. But he didn't say anything else. People are getting bolder and bolder.
Does he believe the Bible ? Or just have issues with Churchianity? He says Jesus just loved people where they were. That is troubling. Jesus came to redeem sinners. Yes, He loved them as they weee-and are- but it doesn’t end there. I too am burned out with churchiness too, but I do believe the Bible-though I don’t understand every bit! It’s not how we feel about things, though God cares, but there is that thing called faith.
I think that is part of the issue. People are struggling to be able to get grounded in their faith. I did for many years. What is crazy I had to go out of state to be able to get grounded in my faith. I was able to have room to have important conversations. It helped me where I can come back and be able to contribute and even speak up to the confusion that exists or is being created.
I have no idea what the issues are that he has, and I can think of a hundred reasons to leave organized Christianity, I can barely walk into a church, but I can articulate that it's because of corruption, abuse and really poor doctrine. I'm not able to follow his thoughts.
You are correct!... thank you for pointing this out! This young man especially as a pastor's son, really seems like he grew up like a "church brat"!!!... He is NOT looking for answers at all... because he is NOT looking for the BIBLE! The WORD Of GOD has ALL the ANSWERS and also GOD has ALL the answers for EACH one of us.... and HE KNOWS who, when, where, why and how to send HIS PEOPLE at the right time to give us the answers we need!... CHRISTIANS are supposed to be the SOLUTION and not part of the problem!... CHRISTIANS are NOT supposed to follow other Christians, but to FOLLOW CHRIST!!!...
I took a break at 37 minutes and went to this guy's website. There are so many anti-biblical statements and conclusions I lost count. What stood out was his utter selfishness. His theme is, "You must accept me just like I am at the present time with no judgment." No one has to accept him like he is, period. Secondly, his utter disdain for anything related to the things that interest most men and for churched men, in general, was ubiquitous. How can they be expected to respect him if he has no respect for them? It goes both ways. He declares himself to be a god unto himself. He wants to be a "my way" Christian.
I’m 3 mins in and I have lost your train of thought. I just scroll down and read the comments and a lot of them have the same felling. I think it’s important to search for the truth and find a spiritual community ( body of Christ) to grow together in truth and grace.
My thought is that Jamin may fit into the 'autism spectrum' . . by the way he talks. I have experience with the spectrum . . a few of my grandsons have been diagnosed. I mean no negativity . . simply a listener's observation. 🤗
Ha-ha-ha.... I'm really glad that I am not alone feeling like this!.... This young man is NOT making any sense about his own self!!!... He is NOT in his right mind!... Poor guy!... He really NEEDS to READ >> the B I B L E -> (Best* Information* Before* Leaving* Earth)
I've already made a comment, but I feel compelled to make another one after reading the comments provided by others. Frankly, people who are trying to figure out the "specific" details of what happened and "what the questions were" are quite literally missing both the point of the interview and are quite possibly the audience who created the need for this interview. I am not saying that's true about every commenter who felt this interview was vague. I can even give you the specific reason why you think it's vague: You have never spent time listening to someone in his position, you have only given someone like Jamin the "answer" and sent them on their way. Jamin is speaking about life between the problem and the solution. You can certainly answer any question given with a, "You just need to read the Bible and do this," but in doing that, you are glossing over the real issues. How does one move from point A to point B? How do these inconsistent parts of the Bible fit together? Why should I blindly accept that the Bible DOES fit together? There were VERY specific questions in between the lines in this interview, but you have to want to know what the PROBLEM is, not just want to provide a solution. Realistically, you can't even provide the RIGHT solution until you know what the problem actually IS. And I think this is where the divide will fall: There are those who are going to mock my response and say I'm just catering to a sinful people and giving them justification. And then there are going to be those who earnestly ask the question "Why am I missing the point of this interview?" and then begin a journey of understanding. And if we think it is unbiblical to understand the problem, then we neglect the truth in what the author of Hebrews says about having a great high priest who knows our weakness. Christ our Lord set an example to understand the problem without sin and to walk with his creation towards the holiness and love he expects. If you can't do that or are unwilling to do that, then you are the one who believes the law is sufficient and Christ came to earth for nothing. I repeat: This interview made complete sense to me and I never walked the path Jamin walked. I have simply spent time to understand the lives of the lost, broken and hurting. Through this understanding, I have been able to share the depths of the gospel, the truth of the Bible, and the life and peace found in God to those who otherwise would not. I have been a bit harsh in my comment, but I do so with the desire that more would increase their effectiveness in leading others to Christ and along the walk with Christ.
He wants you to buy the book. But his first thing is why in the Bible, God asked to kill gays? He is offended. It is clear. But they weren't the only one killed at that time for what God calls sin.
Matthew 11:24 states that we who have greater Revelation will be judged harsher than Sodom & gemorah so it is our job to heal the sick, cast out devils and stop SA in churches/ministries
I think the point of this conversation is tackling why so many are leaving the church, and as the comments suggest, talking about specific questions will derail the process in order to expound on specific topics.
I too was struggling with all of this so much and left a few churches and then God started calling me to orthodoxy. Excited again to learn and grown in my walk God
This story is enlightening and refreshing to hear. I’m known to challenge the system, the family system that uses religious tactics to control and shame those who do not align with their own ideology. Now, my husband and I are helping couples and families. We’ve been on a long road of healing. Been married for almost 20 years. Now, we have a counseling practice in Texas that helps others in their journey of healing. Challenging the system in pursuit for people to have a personal relationship with God, not through one’s own ideologies or even themselves.
Wow... he soooo expresses (more eloquently than I've been able to) what so many of us are going through. "A bunch of words that don't seem to say a whole lot." Or "They're focused on changing the "coffee", when it's not about the "coffee". He's putting a face on something that people have reduced to a chart or a statistic. Thank you.
Hard interview - yet the interviewer did very well addressing touch issues Jamon spoke about in his book. There is something happening lately with people picking up and leaving, which many tend to express as “they have a spirit of offense”. Jamon seems very intellectual and deep but the only concern I have personally is: we are in the last days and the Bible talks about the generations becoming wickeder and wickeder. All I hold on to is that God WILL continue to build His church and the gates of hell will not prevail. May the Holy Spirit be our teacher going forward!
He sounds like a very confused fellow with an issue of submitting to healthy and godly authority. He seems to have issue with the Word of God itself. Not sure why you're plaforming him Julie Roys? This is confusing
LANCE FORD here: Julie and I knew this interview would be a bit controversial for regular listeners/watchers of the RR. We felt it was important for us to hear what Jamin has to say, because his story, and present position syncs up with an increasing populace of former church goers. Out of love for others we need to do all we can to hear what they are saying--even when it is not clear what they are saying to us even after they have spoken. We should never forget the times in our own journey where clouds of confusion, disillusionment, and the temptation to give up prevailed. We must keep in mind the denial and abandonment of even the Apostle Peter, whom Jesus drew back to himself. What I did sense from Jamin in my visit with him is a sincere desire to continue in his walk with the Lord and to grow in it. It is also evident in the comments, that many people resonated or identified with where Jamin is. If we hope to grow in our witness and opportunity to reach an ever increasing populace of "nones" or "dones" --some whom may even be our own children--we must cultivate a loving patience that will earn a seat around a cup of coffee or breaking of bread as a safe, although uncompromising listening ear, that is willing to hear and respond in both grace and truth. When dealing with those outside the church, even those who were once inside, let us keep in mind the word of the Apostle Paul--Colossians 4:5-6 "Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone."
Jesus came to our level and ministered to our pain and hurt, but He always guided us back to the Word of God the Father. He emphasized what the Father says about our lives and His perspective on our attitudes and behaviors. Unfortunately, Jesus does not always endorse the way we live.
I’m so shocked to see this interview with Jamin! I attended his family’s church for 5 years and I understand the environment he was raised in, which caused so much confusion and mixed messages about the gospel. I was so hurt and confused and lost when we decided to leave that church and it took a toll on my kids. Didn’t realize I had some ptsd from that experience until we moved and I tried attending a small church in town. But 15 minutes into the service I felt all those old feelings of shame and confusion and judgement coming back and realized I still had hurt I needed to deal with from that time. I pray blessings to him and his family, but it’s honestly hard to listen to this interview knowing how his reasoning was shaped by that church environment. I pray for everyone who came out of that church to find peace, true faith, honest godly community and healing. 🙏🏻
I've never lost my faith in Jesus, but I lost my faith in the church. In 2017, I began to realize that I was in an emotionally and verbally abusive marriage. I had always read Christian marriage books, but none helped my marriage. I started asking questions and doing my own research and personal counseling. After my divorce was final in 2022, I was having a hard time finding a church. This Fall, I finally gave up.
I was going to ask church and they started to compromise too much. I didn’t just quit going to church, I searched until I found one that preaches the Gospel, supports missionaries, plants churches, etc. We know where our tithes go. Good churches are out there! I see people leaving church as part of the great falling away. If you can’t find a Bible centered church, then start one!
Start one? That's alit easier said than done. Better to just seek out people who want genuine fellowship and ministry in a home setting. No expensive building to support or pastor salaries.
I'm only 7 minutes in and I'm done. This person needs to give his heart to the Lord Jesus Christ, ask to be filled with His Holy Spirit according to Acts 2, then read and study the New Testament/Covenant, asking the Holy Spirit to teach him.
We have left the church in NZ. Raised Open Brethren, been to pentecostal, Baptist, back to OB then to a charasmatic pentecostal. They're all abusive in one form or another. I carry a lot of guilt over being churchless. I wish I had just one normal christian girlfriend! I am born again and believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah who shed his blood for my sin! That is all I know. The church is making people sick!✝️🙏🇳🇿🇳🇿
I guess I’m not very patient with this “deconstruction” movement. It seems each person is going to focus on their particular “bent” in life. I mean, yes, in the Old Testament it does say that about homosexuals, but it ALSO says that about adulterers and disobedient children! We need to help people understand the ENORMITY of our sin in contrast to the awesome HOLINESS of God. Christ was WILLINGLY BRUTALLY tortured and crucified to pay for our wicked sin that we take so lightly! I mean Christ says in Matthew 5:27-28 that our THOUGHTS of lust make us an adulterer, in I John 3:15 if we HATE anyone, we’re a murderer in the HOLY eyes of God! Jesus paid the ultimate price, we are FREE from the bonds of sin because of His GRACE and mercy if we accept, by faith, His gift we can have the Holy Spirit of God that WILL help us, through HIS POWER live a victorious Christian life!
Jesus went on to explain: “Concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged” (John 16:9-11, ESV). The world is a sinful place, and one of the Holy Spirit’s tasks is to convict the world of its sin. No amount of preaching, pleading, or pointing of fingers will bring about the conviction of your sin, unless the (Holy Spirit) is at work in the (sinner’s heart). So Stop Looking At MAN to do a work he was never equipped or designed to do. It is ONLY the HOLY SPIRIT’s Job to convict. But more so the question should be her mind for each and everyone of us, Do You allow HIM to ? Have you ever even invited HIM in do to do a Work in Your Heart ? Do you even have a relationship with HIM? I pray all who read my words but the Holy Spirit will knock at the door your heart and you would invite him in just surrender your feelings your intellectual thoughts that you perceive to be good or right.
Hi Sister Julie Roys , Thank you for this video. Pastors should follow what Jesus Christ ask them to do. Church should be a place where we should learn more about christ so that we will be convicted of our sins and learn to love God and others in Christ and serve Jesus. But today’s church where wrong doctrines are taught and flesh has upper hand in life than Holy Spirit . I pray that pastors should be sober and able to truly teach the word in God’s standard.
Not only is there a reluctance to answer questions but we have made the asking inappropriate or dangerous. Even though we raised our kids in conservative evangelicalism, we also taught them to question. That led to our high school daughter asking the youth pastor for a reference to support some questionable statement he made at youth group. That led to a private one or one where she was instructed that questioning him in front of others was inappropriate. TH-cam is full of evangelical perspectives and many videos do not welcome other perspectives but in fact frame the talk to shut down, label as unbiblical (or even demonic) other viewpoints. Don’t question “the” truth.
Ps 23. Only one good Shepherd. Ezekiel 34 describes the evil " shepherd " preachers that abuse the sheep. This is why people are sick of the nonsense and the only answer is to run to the Good Shepherd. ☝️👑❤️
I understand what this brother is saying, but we need to be careful when explaining our decision. Why did he choose homosexuality as an example? Jesus was murdered for our sins. While this may not make sense to us, we accept it because there is a message in it that brings us comfort.
I think what we are seeing is fruit of what is happening in the church these days. I have struggled so much to find people I could ask questions of, have real discussions with. I was shamed and gaslit for everything with no conversation no explanation. It is a miracle I still have a faith in Christ and found my way. Still difficult to find like-minded community.
Oppah gave motivational talks and gave money too. She was helpful in some ways. But still should be marked and avoided. she shouldn't be listened to. People's eternity can be at stake. The fact these folks say some helpful things and donate to some charities may cause many to be deceived With how many millions the rich have several thousand isn't even pocket change. They are giving such as it doesn't fizz on their life. A tax write off maybe? They still have millions in the bank and investments and interest We should mark and avoid false teachers no matter how many false teachers there are. Jesus said false teachers would come and deceive many. Jesus said narrow is the way, and few there be that find it. Jesus said beware of false prophets. Wolves that are in sheep's clothing. Jesus said be not deceived. False teachers do some good deeds and false teachers teach some helpful things and say some truthful things or else nobody would follow them. Jim Jones sounded like he preached truth and he claimed to heal and sounded like he preached the Bible and Jesus. He deceived many. If a person cons the poor and needy out of their money and uses it for their own desires, that is wrong. How could they be a genuine believer? They don't have to be perfect but some standards must be met. If they live in mansions and ignore the homeless outside their gate then how dwelleth the love of God in them? If they have not love they do not even know God according to the Bible. Disqualified. 1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? Pretty sure the rich man thought he was blessed by God and considered Lazarus evil and cursed. But he was wrong. He couldn't see his own heart let alone Lazarus's heart. He went to haul and eternal torment and Lazarus went to eternal paradise. Proverbs 21:13 Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard Luke 16 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom Luke 10 33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
I'm 48 years Old. $83,500 Biweekly and I'm retired. This video has inspired me greatly in many ways that I remember my past of how i struggled with many things in life to be where I am today!!!!
I raised 184k and Anna Kathleen Sanford is to be thanked. I got my self my dream car 🚗 just last weekend, My journey with her started after my best friend came back from New York and saw me suffering in dept then told me about her and how to change my life through her. Anna K. Sanford is the kind of person one needs in his or her life! I got a home, a good husband, and a beautiful daughter. Note!:: this is not a promotion but me trying to make a point that no matter what happens, always have faith and keep living!!
I know that woman(Anna Kathleen Sanford) If you grew up in new York, you’d know her too. There’s no ßingle doubt she’s the one that helped you make it to where you are now!
He gave one. Why in the Bible, God did instruct it to kill gays? He probably was a Christian from association to his father. But it is clear why. In the same way, it is clear for liars, fornicators, adulterous, etc.
As I thought more about this whole subject of deconstruction/reconstruction this morning I'm wondering if the solution simply boils down to an alternative way of viewing the Bible. Deconstruction seems to be a criticism of the plenary inspiration view held by fundamentalists. The alternatives include partial inspiration dynamic inspiration neo Orthodox amongst others.
A pastor ,leader ,needs to say I don't know if they dont know ,but let's pray and seek God about that question. Be humble ,there are some answers we just have to take by faith.and seek God for the answer and wait on God or just trust God knows ,and we aren't God ,His ways are much higher and we as mere humans ,maybe arenot capable of understanding why ? Try explaining to a baby in the hospital ,getting stuck with needles ,in pain, But the parent in no way can explain why? Make that baby understand as they are not mature enough. But all you can do is comfort that baby , hold them, 8r sometimes uou can't even touch them .but you know you love them and it's impossible to explain to the baby why there in pain and it's that way with God with some of our questions.
No other comments here yet? I'm listening to this guy, and thinking what a shame that apparently no one helped him learn how to study Scripture for himself to get his own questions answered. That's the best way to get to clarity and solidity, because you found it for yourself, instead of simply accepting someone's word for something, which is not as firm a foundation.
This guy would drive me nuts. Like the Pharisees he would find fault in Jesus Himself. There are many things that we the church are guilty of and yes they should be addressed, but at the same time it would require everyone of us to imitate Jesus to perfection in order to accomplish what only He can do.
All the more reason for us who are in churches to encourage a culture of repentance and reconciliation wherever possible. So many stories of people leaving and no one taking accountability, not enough of saying “I’m sorry,” doing whatever is needed to help heal the damage, and working toward restoring peace.
One of the greatest truths the Lord has revealed to me is that deliverance has been fundamental in my journey to freedom and restoration. I have been attending a deliverance church now for the past 24 years and have received the Lord’s ongoing healing and deliverance. I have witnessed a transformation unlike I had ever experienced when I was attending Charismatic churches for 20 years prior to embracing deliverance. There are only a handful of churches that integrate deliverance as a main part of their weekly church services; and it seems that all kinds of erroneous doctrines get taught when churches leave out or deny deliverance altogether. Jesus placed a huge emphasis on deliverance; but unfortunately, the churches do not want to touch it or talk about it. I believe that is why so many Christians are struggling and are not getting free from their wounds and demonic strongholds, and therefore, leaving these churches.
After listening to 1/3 of this podcast and reading a dozen comments, it appears to me that this man's frustrations with church are confirmed in a way by people's inability to understand his struggles. What I hear him saying is that he has found church goers to be so insecure in their beliefs that they can't be intellectually honest about how difficult it is to know with certainty many of the things considered to be evangelical orthodoxy
To me Christian congregation should be all about : Isaiah 1:18 : Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. My questions should be seen as : "please help me understand better", rather than : I'm challenging you and/or The Bible".
Yes, but Marcus Lamb was having a seven year adulterous affair which clearly breaks the ten commandments yet the viewers forgave him but not Oprah who had abortion due to incest which was not her fault...the church is one sided in forgiveness.
Well, Jesus met the woman at the well “where she was” and he told her the truth about her heart and then told her to “go and sin no more.” So maybe this guy doesn’t want to know the truth of Jesus? Maybe he wants a different Bible or church than what God intended. Jesus is loving, but also called out sin from sexual sin to financial greed. You have to want all of Jesus, not just the warm and fuzzy parts. The organized church is part of His plan. And it’s made up of sinners and hypocrites so we will always be disappointed and “hurt by the church” if we expect a utopia here on earth. We arent called to withdraw from the church but to grow with the “tares”, work to improve it, and be unified in spite of our hurts and differences.
Oh wow! I have seen all these things in various denominations since I became a Christian in college in 1990. It is not limited to evangelicals at all. I can’t tell you how much manipulation there was from the start. Fortunately, I never lost sight of Jesus but I did go through a very dark time. And yeah, pastors as a whole are just very inaccessible as a whole. And the false persona is so strongly promoted for the sole reason of getting people drawn to the church.
As I listen I must speak It’s up to each of us to study the scriptures NOT to ask another human! Holy Spirit is our teacher. The building called the church is NOT the church(the body of Christ). Am really sickened of the blaming everyone else because our men of the cloth are not teachers. Each of us are to take accountability to be responsible for what we need answers to. Counselors are good Indeed. I hate the spirits of religion just like Jesus did and does. I hear you… IF we want to follow Christ it will cost us everyone and everything. Jesus told us 🤭🤭
Specifically it’s the lack of intellectual honesty and arrogance. “I’m right, you’re wrong”. God’s after unity of disciples. Disciples inherently ask questions and there’s too much Marxist group think in the “body”. Who has time for that anymore? I don’t. I want to know my Father more.
Is it true that the following 16 ministries have left Daystar? 1. Ed Young 2. James Merritt 3. Dr. Wonder’s Workshop 4. Ashley & Carly Terradez 5. Danet Crawford 6. Joyce Meyer 7. Dot Lawson Purdue 8. Jesse Duplantis 9. Lance Wallnau 10. Laura Lynn 11. Baruch Korman 12. Kobe & Shun Ferguson 13. Hank & Brenda Kunneman 14. Mark Chirrona 15. Jack Graham 16. Russell Johnson
We are all broken ppl, the church shld act more like a hosp for the wounded. I’m sorry you were hurt in the church. There are hurt & lonely ppl sitting in those church pews! ‘Mourn with those who mourn, rejoice with those who rejoice’. Help to bear one another’s burdens. Seek to understand before being understood… ‘care’
Wish there were more answers from The Word- sounds as if he had my parents 70’s mindset… “I’m OK 👍🏼 and YOU’RE ✅ OK! OK?” No foundation and a “we’re good” ideology. I left this convo empty Kinda sad for him and the rest of us with more questions 🧐
I don't believe in going to church, but being the church. I don't even fully know what that is right now. I'm asking God to show me what He is saying and His heart for His Body and when we gather...which is a necessary gift...to gather more and more...but I am reading through the New Testament Chronologically and hoping I'll see what God is saying, rather than what man has told me church is. I've simply trusted the lense church has told me is what God and the New Testament is describing. I don't believe that, anymore. I'm still reading through the gospels right now, which takes time. It's kinda frustrating how slow it is since this is the first time in my life not "going to church" and I have teenagers and young adults. But I have to know if the tradition of "going to church" is man made and man's tradition or is this what God was saying by go and make disciples, submit one to another, and fellowship and gather. I trust God. I don't trust church. The ekklesia is perfect because we belong to God and are His workmanship. But I'm not expecting "perfection" as we learn to truly love one another and function and grow together. But I do not want to be in, or belong to an unhealthy system, which locks us in and is really destructive and distracting, just so I can say "I'm going to church." And with sharing the golspel, I want to point people to Jesus, but right now I would not know where to point them to fellowship. Oh, Lord help!
There are sheep from the ex-evangelical camp that will not go into another religious order unless they can think for themselves and be allowed to always question what is being taught to them. If you cannot then we will go on our merry way.
Stop using the Bible as a rule book. If you need a book to tell you to be good,and that you must believe to be right,and that you should be afraid because your no good, then you have missed the plot because that’s what you have been wrongly taught…..Im sorry, I feel for you…The Bible is a tool of learning for you not a sword to kill another
Though this young man has valid points but I don't think this is the biggest problem as to 'why' many are becoming 'ex-evangelical'. My biggest problem, as a 'nearly ex-evangelical' is not the inability of the 'leaders' to answer all my difficult question (who can really?), its the inability for so many believers, especially the leaders, to live up to the basic commandment, "if anyone want to be first, he must be the last of all and the servant of all" Mark 9:35. In my 40 years of walking with my Lord Jesus, I have yet to see a 'leader' of a church (big or small) come out and help one of his members move their belongings to a new home, literally. Not only that, I am often the only to shown up to help someone move. I'm not saying this to 'brag' about how generous I am. I'm saying it because it's TRUE. If the believers in churches can't even do the simple things required of them (help a brother/sister in need) than I think that's the reason their pews are emptying by the thousand because the 'leaders' are good examples!
Jesus gave a way out for all believers in churches throughout the ages , whom find themselves battling any kind of immorality and have needed help. It’s called deliverance ! And , maybe one problem that may surface among Christians in the evangelical churches is that these denominations of Christians largely do not administer deliverance. Immorality is expressed in different ways ; but it all requires the same remedy, according to the scriptures , which is deliverance . So, therefore, any believer struggling with immorality at any stage of their life can seek deliverance . Immorality comprises situations similar to what has come out of Daystar: such as adultery and sa ( and fornication and homosexuality ). It’s all there written in the scriptures , almost 2000 years , in which the Apostle Paul had addressed these issues of immorality.
Matthew 11:28-30. Jesus says His yoke is light. It’s okay to not know everything and lean on the church accepted tenets. This is what I tell my kids. Right now, young people are being challenged about even the basics outlined in Genesis 1. There are people who focus on any inconsistency. Been there done that. Christian schools see these challenges everyday, mostly by young ppl looking for new revelation. The new discoveries definitely comes in the form of how God works in an indivdusl’s life and not new revelation in the basic tenets of Christianity. His yoke is light and we can be satisfied by Jesus.
I have with this church for approximately fifteen years…. I have never met with or spoke with the pastor!! I have attempted to connect with the ministry via letters but they ignored my attempts! He appears to be too busy and he has pushed the older generation aside and caters only to the younger generation!! The leadership comes across as a cliche!!
Jesus is my/our spiritual authority. When our “leaders” shun or get defensive at questions, they want blind obedience which can be dangerous. I was in a destructive NAR “Christian” cult that gaslit, didn’t like questions & shunned people who left. I’m so glad I’m free. I left the church system but not Jesus. I’m want a Home Bible study that actually studies the Bible.
The main problem by far are the false doctrines of "once saved always saved" and "only believe," which give license to sin without ever fully repenting and reconciling. Almost all "Christians" today are lust addicted in their hearts, which is demon driven. External adultery happens when people willfully sin internally without fully repenting. What did Jesus say happens to those who lust after people from their hearts in Matthew 5? Pastors and teachers don't teach what the Bible says, so we have not even one church that has a reputation for being alive, and Satan is destroying the US at warp speed now. The solution is James 4 and Ephesians 4:11-16 being our goal, along with Jesus' prayer in John 17. Michael Brown could have taught the truth that would set us free, but he taught hyper grace too, while claiming to teach against it.
I'm a little saddened by all the negative comments on this interview, even tho I understand where they are coming from. It just shows me how little that many Christians understand what IS and has been going on in the Western church for decades. I just read "Invisible Jesus" by Scot McKnight & Tommy Phillips. I actually handed out several copies. My giftings have been in the area of evangelism. In recent years I've come to realize that in order to wittness for Jesus these days we have to be able to address people's questions about all of the things going on in the church because they are wondering. And if someone DOES accept Christ through our wittness, then where do we tell them to go??? If you have a church that you love and where you have great fellowship and are growing then be thankful and pray that for others. Because those places are getting increasingly hard to find. I don't agree with much of what this young man says, yet I see how he got there. It amazes me how much a part of Jesus' message was directed at the errors of the religious leaders of His day. I'm still very orthodox in my Christian beliefs, and I believe that sin is sin. But I also believe that we are in the middle of some kind of reformation. Where it will go I just don't know. But I do have hope that God is moving. I do not have a "church" at present myself. But I just volunteered to help out at a local food pantry. I'm praying that I will meet some others to fellowship with. Is that wrong?
What I noticed; true Christians left their churches due to it no longer follow the scriptures in deed and doctrinally. While on the opposite side; Those who are not real believers left their church because; 1. They don't tickle their ears.. 2. They don't compromise 3. They don't tolerate habitual practice of sin.. There's no such a thing as a perfect church.. But if it follow God's Word faithfully it'll lead them to the one and only perfect and true Holy God of the scriptures...
As I understand this guy was grew up in church and served in it basically his whole life till 39. Maybe he is just wanting an early church model that is uncomplicated and less business feel like. I too am a pastors kid- seen a lot and have been in defferent denominations. Pray he gets a place that is authentic and scripturally sound
Of course there are some parts of the Bible that do not make sense to the reader. It wasn't written to them directly, but was written into a historical, cultural context that we are significantly removed from. That's why commentaries and more experienced believers in the Word are helpful. But to say that the Bible doesn't make sense is an entirely different thing. So much of this conversation sounds like a basic discipleship issue. Becoming a believer involves submitting to the Lordship of Jesus and yielding my personal opinions to the truth of the Word. When it doesn't make sense to us, we don't assume the Bible is wrong, we assume we don't understand it. We ask God to teach us and show us. There are tons of solid answers to very difficult questions. But the real question is whether someone is willing to yield their high-minded opinions to the truth of God. Frankly, this is basic discipleship. Most of this conversation feels like Jamin and ones he is representing did not have a caring, genuine leader who knew how to walk them through the process of fully surrendering to Jesus's Lordship combined with tools to understand the Bible.
The truth is, God is leading people out of the organization of religion and into personal relationship with Himself so that He can do what those behind the pulpit cannot do- that is to make His Word 100% completely harmonic and comprehensive. There are NO contradictions in God's Word- NONE WHATSOEVER. The problem is that those in the pulpit keep making it seem like it is, sadly, because of their lack of understanding it and their mistake of putting their ministry above their own relationships with God. GOD IS DECONSTRUCTING THE CHURCH- NOT PEOPLE!!! He's reforming His Bride His way!!!
I left the "church life" but i will never leave Jesus.
@elizabethschilling7402 May you find a small group of true Christ followers who love the Lord with all their hearts, minds, and souls, and where the Lord can bless others through you. And may He help all of us who’ve been displaced out of our home churches through the works of evil.
Amen. Me too
My reasons for leaving my Assembly of God church of 40 years: the shift in the last 20 years towards an Inaccessibility of the pastor to the sheep, the lack of transparency in the accounting of how finances are handled, the shift towards a friendly-seeker church model, a move away from congregational governing to autocratic top heavy CEO in charge style, shift from a friendly, lighted up sanctuary to a painted black ceiling, club atmosphere, strobe lights, and theater-like "stage," the removal of the altar, church staff acting like celebrities who are a notch above the sheep, the revolving door phenomenon of the congregation, the statistics boasting, the trend towards a very low view of Holy Scriptures, and on and on it goes!
Yes I agree and agree about the on and on.......
@@paulahurst7145 I agree on several of your points. I have been wrestling a lot with this.
Also, nothing wrong with being young, but I have noticed how young an entire staff may be. Questioning: Where are the Godly, older fathers giving wisdom and training the younger. There may be some in the congregation but rarely or very few on staff.
@@StephanieReyes-w8o Totally agree. No wise counsel to be found. It's become a youthful club pretending to be a church.
I to left the Assembly of God church , after 60 some years, began to see how it had begun to change . Now have found a church, that teach the word of God verse by verse. Never ask for money or sign a membership card. A box on the wall in the foyer for offerings. Praise God .
And in a few lines of comment you explained much more than was said in this entire interview.
After 32 years of faithfully going to church every Sunday and Wednesday. Serving and giving 10% or more today I am finally free! The last church we went for 7 years were all about money and power hunger. I am done with that. I pray and continue to give but not to a church. I was born to be free, no more lies, no more manipulation, just God. 🙏🙏
Us too. The greed and hunger for more money was getting ridiculous. We always gave way over 10% also. My husband actually preached one time yet he never had a face to face meeting with the pastor. We met people at the church who had gone there for years and had never had a conversation with the pastor or his wife but would be called out in church hey you, the lady in the red jacket. 🤦♀️🤦♀️. We walked away but felt very sad for our friends bc of the manipulation they had bought into.
We want good, Biblical Word teachings. Our eyes have been opened drastically and for that we are very thankful for. Focusing on God!!!!
Modern day church culture is not patterned off the NT. So tired of playing church. Praying to locate a home church.
Gaslighting and manipulation, and working one small group against the other instead of bringing the body together in unity as one, seems to be one of the tactics in their playbooks.
Me too @@Grandma428
dont despise the gathering of the saints,
For me, it was like leaving church to grow closer to God. I grew closer to Him by spending more time alone with Him, & very little time thinking about who others thought i should be. After a long journey, i now cautiously visit churches or ministries to fellowship a bit. Not joining anything, tho.
Literally me too!
And I am sure that along the way, you've become aware of how to spot the red flags that signal apostasy. I'm not trying to sound like I have a critical spirit, but I know I sure have.
@@paulahurst7145 yes! I saw your comment below too, you are so spot on. What you described is everywhere in the churches, leaving organized church has nothing to do with my walk with Christ, I’ve gotten closer and more grounded with Him from doing so. When He was showing me a lot of this, I thought I was over exaggerating or “critical”, He had to convince me that it was Him opening my eyes to see and it was honestly a reality that was disheartening and took time to process or even wrap my mind around. I’m glad to know I’m not alone, there are many of us that the Lord has been showing the same thing and taking us back to the pure simple way of worship which is discipleship and walking in His ways through our transformative relationship with Him.
Same, I'm committed to Jesus but I don't think I'll ever be committed to a church.
@@briannamartin9945 Now I really know that I'm not odd or going crazy!!!
I stopped going to a church a long time ago, no longer filled a need, but rather left me wondering what has happened. I study and read my Bible at home, when I want fellowship I seek true believers of like precious faith, the apostasy is in the churches.
Same here.
..also agree as seek the Lord’s will and know we are covered by His blood and the His Word.
@@donnaleveron5711 Serious question not to just yourself but others with similar comments...where do you find these believers to fellowship with? How does a Christian grow in spiritual maturity if life is void of everyday trials, tests and temptations to overcome...by avoiding them? 1 Peter 1:6-7 (NKJV) In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, IF NEED BE, you have been grieved by various trials, that the
genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
If Jesus was made perfect by the things He suffered...why would we, His church imagine that in avoiding these challenges...that we are sincerely seeking perfection through avoidance? The church of Paul's day were predominantly home fellowship groups but with the same issues that prevail today with false doctrine, false teachers and prophets, covetousness, sexual sin etc. So it's not down to mega or mini fellowships creating these real issues, but our own flesh.
In my 60s and I'm with you. I get it but for now I'm praying and waiting. While I'm waiting I'm finding ways to love on others and worshiping our LORD sincerely.
Right there with you. Praying. And at the risk of sounding cynical, my fear is that, just as in the days of old when God had to completely tear down the temple building, dispel Israel, and all their waywardness to rid them of apostasy, so it is with the harlot church. Deconstruction will continue, but the true remnant will remain true and emerge.
Thank you Julie for doing what you do!
The first church in the book of Acts was God's model They met in homes.
I left because the church conformed to the world
This conversation is so vague. You aren't giving specifics of WHY you left the church. Why did you write off ALL churches because of your father's church. I belong to a wonderful church that preaches the word. If a person really wants to know the truth they will find it. You can't make someone believe. Sorry, but you are not helping the lost by suggesting all churches are bad in one way or another. Where do you suggest the lost go to find the truth. What is your answer for that. I mean no offense, but you are the author of confusion and that isn't of the Lord. The Bible is so plain, homosexualiry is a sin, adultery is a sin, stealing is a sin, but all can be forgiven if one repents. Jesus, came to people where they were, but He NEVER left them in their sin. I don't know your heart, but this is not good for the cause of Christ.
It is most likely he was a Christian for association. He will find his way back or not. God won't change his word to accommodate us.
Complete truth!
You're lucky to have a good church! As a believer and church goer, finding a good bible believing , bible teaching church is not at all easy! And then you have the churches were the leaders want to be rock stars, you have your clicks that aren't to welcoming to newcomers, they spend thousands of dollars to put in coffee bars and high tech stages with no altar, and of course all the sin being allowed in the churches by their members and staff with no biblical correction or authority. These things should never take place in God's house and only turns away new believers seeking God and truth! And to answer your question, we're do new believers go to find truth, that would be the Word of God because there aren't to many churches out there preaching truth and I reiterate, your lucky if you truly have that.
True. What does Julie Roys think about homosexuality?
This young man is profoundly confused; he only speaks word salads. I certainly will not be buying or recommending his book. Julie, you dropped the ball on this one.
Wow! So true!!! And he NEVER mentioned a word from the BIBLE... and he's a "Seminary" graduate?!.... What a SAD joke!..
Exactly ‼️
What do you mean that “there are parts of the Bible that don’t make sense”???? This fellow needs to be clearer about the fact that there ARE answers to these questions but pastors either don’t know them or are mad that people are asking them. I wish the interviewee answered more specifically and clearly.
I agree more specific examples would really help. God welcomes us to come to Him and ask anything. “Now we see through a glass dimly…”
Yes, much in the Bible is straightforward.
Some churches can look and sound so “right” but have areas that could use God’s light shining on the dark areas…if they are open and humble to correction and to growing in the knowledge of God.
Bingo
His question about why gays were killed is clear. But he wants something to defend God of, but God does need such a thing. I have no doubt about that.
Very good point! I seems that the man who interviewed this young man was a bit afraid and confused at this poor guys words salad and brat like attitude... typical pastor's son...
I'm almost at the end and still can't quite get more than one solid point! Disappointed, ngl. I had great expectations 😔🧐
Honestly, please read Bonhoeffer’s “The Cost of Discipleship”. Grace is not cheap. Jesus was not afraid of confronting sin and did. It is not cheap. It will cost you everything. Has it cost Jamin everything? Has it cost any of us everything? That is something for every Christian to think about. It is true of all of us. It is costly. Why, Lance, didn’t you mention to Jamin that being a Christian is costly. That is why the interview was so confusing to me. Because, Lance, you allowed him to tell his story as if it were a valid argument against the church, and it is not. And then promoted his book, which could be ill advised. Jamin is confused about what it means to be a Christian. Hurting perhaps. But did you have to validate him?
I’ve been watching this for the last 15 minutes,and I’m trying to figure out what are they talking about?
I was thinking EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
This may not make sense to those who have not experienced it.
I finished listening and he basically was being told that it's wrong for asking questions that people (pastors) could not answer or felt uncomfortable.
I'd appreciate that terms are defined. What do you mean "deconstruction"?
I understand when the focus in church seems to be the Lord or maybe is in some areas, but then there is a disconnect in other areas where either the pastors at a church have to be “right”, or are respectfully ignorant of abuse in marriage and families, mental health, etc. So when giving advice, counseling, they do not actually walk in God’s love and ways when for instance, say to stay in abuse at the risk are harm for spouses and kids.
I have my own experience and I am in ministry at the same church but different campus. I am in the process for a long time trying to be heard to affect Godly change.
We are the body of Christ and need to be lifting each other up, not kicking down someone in crisis.
I hope this helps to make sense of some of what is being said.
My heart is that God be lifted up.🙏
The abuse in churches goes much further than what you are talking about here, the pit is deep.
Lack of true Biblical discipleship has caused many of the problems in the western church.🙏🙏🙏🙏
True statement. And the church has become a playground instead of a battlefield.
Its not just evangelicals who are both questioning and leaving. One doesn't always give up on God or His word. They get hurt by the people in such a place called "the church" and some days, feel more of Christ by being alone and fully dependent on Him, researching Biblical perspective, reading His word and praying for His guidance. We are to show ourselves studied and approved, to trust Him fully...some people will continue to be so hard hearted IN THE CHURCH that they contribute to not winning souls or losing those who attend regularly and financially support the church.
Is not a healthy environment at all.
Excellent comment!
Speaking as a person who went through spiritual abuse and shame for years. I am deeply disappointed you aired this program. It is sadly clear this young man was hurt, and it is a tragedy that happens all too often. His faith is shaken, and he is confused. My brother went down the same road and now doesn't believe the Bible is God's Word or that Jesus is the son of God. This young man is on a dangerous path and will lead others astray. His advice for pastors is to leave the ministry to help ones who have been hurt is wrong on so many levels. It is a huge mistake to put our faith in people. We need to accept God's Word by faith. We might not always understand it. The Bible promises to give us wisdom if we ask God. I still have trust issues with pastors and churches. But God has never let me down. He is full of mercy and grace. Pastors need to shower those who have been hurt with God's love. Not leave the ministry
I have been through many years of spiritual abuse as well. I am actually happy to see this conversation happen. People need freedom to talk honestly in order for the conversation to happen. Conflict is very scary after abuse. But being able to talk to one another in love is a healing place to start. Church as a whole needs to wake up or this trend with the churches will continue. Sending prayers to you. And I lift our churches and leader up in prayer as well.
Boxing people into a reality you feel comfortable with instead of Godly Bible based discernment is an indicator of spiritual immaturity.🙏🙏🙏
Hi, Michele. Immaturity is the true condition of the church in America. There's also shallowness and defensiveness. I tried in many ways to fit in, while still seeking the Lord. It can't work. I don't understand people who are comfortable in that kind of church life. Maybe it's good I'm a little bit autistic. We tend to see things differently.
What is truth? Seek and you shall find...who do you say Jesus? Organized church is not the same as the Body of Christ. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, MIND, and strength. My relationship with God in Christ Jesus, sustained by the Holy Spirit, helps me overcome my unbelief, questions, and weaknesses. The Bible is the honest revelation of God that helps me navigate as I journey through this flawed world and my own shortcomings. I could do without organized, business formated church, but I could not imagine my life without my faith in Christ, God's Word, and the fellowship of believers who are the REAL Church of the living God. Blessings to all❤
I’m not really dying to stay in church, though I’ve been faithfully there since 1979.
I want to stay home but I feel compelled by obedience to Hebrews where it says to not “forsake the assembling of yourselves together as some are in the habit of doing”.
Except the dissonance is becoming deafening. I can barely physically stay in the building, I feel repulsed by so much that is going on. So many being made “twice as much a son of hell” Matt 23:15 as pharisaical pastors reproduce pharisaical followers.
Something has to give. If we just keep going we will maintain the status quo, and nothing will change.
I have a lot of respect for people like Jamin who are brave enough to speak out.
It is written, "come out of her my people, lest you share in her sins, lest you receive of her plagues". Revelation 18:4
Assemble with others in your home or another's, it's what the early believers did.
Wow, you are seeing the place is like that, but you don't trust the Holy Spirit inside you?
@@laurenmay2098What should I do? I’m trying to share that it feels like being between a rock and a hard place.
@maggyjpnes4749
That’s about Jerusalem the harlot, not the church. There is really no such thing as a corrupt church, spiritually speaking (though we think so by outward appearances). Those who seek to corrupt it are no longer considered a part of it by Christ. Unlike Israel, which could be unfaithful while still being Israel, those who are unfaithful in the body of Christ simply aren’t a part of it anymore. John writes about this in his letters.
This interview was not helpful in understanding anything new. He didn’t say anything he disagreed with the churches about and he also had no advice for pastors. Just more confusing- does he believe the Bible fully but has issues with ways the church operates? Cause that’s me but I can name specific things- he didn’t name any 🤷🏻♀️
He did. He said that he does not like gay being killed in the Bible. He does not know why they were killed. I guess he wasn't a Christian. He will find an answer soon. Because the Bible is clear on that matter. But he didn't say anything else. People are getting bolder and bolder.
Agreed.
Does he believe the Bible ? Or just have issues with Churchianity?
He says Jesus just loved people where they were. That is troubling. Jesus came to redeem sinners. Yes, He loved them as they weee-and are- but it doesn’t end there.
I too am burned out with churchiness too, but I do believe the Bible-though I don’t understand every bit! It’s not how we feel about things, though God cares, but there is that thing called faith.
I think that is part of the issue. People are struggling to be able to get grounded in their faith. I did for many years. What is crazy I had to go out of state to be able to get grounded in my faith. I was able to have room to have important conversations. It helped me where I can come back and be able to contribute and even speak up to the confusion that exists or is being created.
I have no idea what the issues are that he has, and I can think of a hundred reasons to leave organized Christianity, I can barely walk into a church, but I can articulate that it's because of corruption, abuse and really poor doctrine. I'm not able to follow his thoughts.
You are correct!... thank you for pointing this out! This young man especially as a pastor's son, really seems like he grew up like a "church brat"!!!...
He is NOT looking for answers at all... because he is NOT looking for the BIBLE! The WORD Of GOD has ALL the ANSWERS and also GOD has ALL the answers for EACH one of us.... and HE KNOWS who, when, where, why and how to send HIS PEOPLE at the right time to give us the answers we need!...
CHRISTIANS are supposed to be the SOLUTION and not part of the problem!...
CHRISTIANS are NOT supposed to follow other Christians, but to FOLLOW CHRIST!!!...
Sitting in church is not the same as walking with God.
I took a break at 37 minutes and went to this guy's website. There are so many anti-biblical statements and conclusions I lost count. What stood out was his utter selfishness. His theme is, "You must accept me just like I am at the present time with no judgment." No one has to accept him like he is, period. Secondly, his utter disdain for anything related to the things that interest most men and for churched men, in general, was ubiquitous. How can they be expected to respect him if he has no respect for them? It goes both ways. He declares himself to be a god unto himself. He wants to be a "my way" Christian.
I’m 3 mins in and I have lost your train of thought. I just scroll down and read the comments and a lot of them have the same felling. I think it’s important to search for the truth and find a spiritual community ( body of Christ) to grow together in truth and grace.
My thought is that Jamin may fit into the 'autism spectrum' . . by the way he talks.
I have experience with the spectrum . . a few of my grandsons have been diagnosed.
I mean no negativity . . simply a listener's observation. 🤗
Same here. Not the best choice to interview. Just babbling.
Ha-ha-ha.... I'm really glad that I am not alone feeling like this!.... This young man is NOT making any sense about his own self!!!... He is NOT in his right mind!... Poor guy!... He really NEEDS to READ >> the B I B L E -> (Best* Information* Before* Leaving* Earth)
@@believehimornot7195 My thoughts exactly.
I haven’t been to church in over a year for the same reasons. When it feels the same no matter what church I go to, why am I still trying?
I hear you. It's as though the same virus of apostasy has infected them all, no matter the denomination.
I've already made a comment, but I feel compelled to make another one after reading the comments provided by others.
Frankly, people who are trying to figure out the "specific" details of what happened and "what the questions were" are quite literally missing both the point of the interview and are quite possibly the audience who created the need for this interview. I am not saying that's true about every commenter who felt this interview was vague.
I can even give you the specific reason why you think it's vague: You have never spent time listening to someone in his position, you have only given someone like Jamin the "answer" and sent them on their way. Jamin is speaking about life between the problem and the solution. You can certainly answer any question given with a, "You just need to read the Bible and do this," but in doing that, you are glossing over the real issues. How does one move from point A to point B? How do these inconsistent parts of the Bible fit together? Why should I blindly accept that the Bible DOES fit together? There were VERY specific questions in between the lines in this interview, but you have to want to know what the PROBLEM is, not just want to provide a solution. Realistically, you can't even provide the RIGHT solution until you know what the problem actually IS.
And I think this is where the divide will fall: There are those who are going to mock my response and say I'm just catering to a sinful people and giving them justification. And then there are going to be those who earnestly ask the question "Why am I missing the point of this interview?" and then begin a journey of understanding. And if we think it is unbiblical to understand the problem, then we neglect the truth in what the author of Hebrews says about having a great high priest who knows our weakness. Christ our Lord set an example to understand the problem without sin and to walk with his creation towards the holiness and love he expects. If you can't do that or are unwilling to do that, then you are the one who believes the law is sufficient and Christ came to earth for nothing.
I repeat: This interview made complete sense to me and I never walked the path Jamin walked. I have simply spent time to understand the lives of the lost, broken and hurting. Through this understanding, I have been able to share the depths of the gospel, the truth of the Bible, and the life and peace found in God to those who otherwise would not. I have been a bit harsh in my comment, but I do so with the desire that more would increase their effectiveness in leading others to Christ and along the walk with Christ.
Thank you all
So what were the questions???
My husband and I are wondering the same thing. Lots of speech with no substance.
I'd like to know too
He wants you to buy the book. But his first thing is why in the Bible, God asked to kill gays? He is offended. It is clear. But they weren't the only one killed at that time for what God calls sin.
Matthew 11:24 states that we who have greater Revelation will be judged harsher than Sodom & gemorah so it is our job to heal the sick, cast out devils and stop SA in churches/ministries
I think the point of this conversation is tackling why so many are leaving the church, and as the comments suggest, talking about specific questions will derail the process in order to expound on specific topics.
I too was struggling with all of this so much and left a few churches and then God started calling me to orthodoxy. Excited again to learn and grown in my walk God
This story is enlightening and refreshing to hear. I’m known to challenge the system, the family system that uses religious tactics to control and shame those who do not align with their own ideology. Now, my husband and I are helping couples and families. We’ve been on a long road of healing. Been married for almost 20 years. Now, we have a counseling practice in Texas that helps others in their journey of healing.
Challenging the system in pursuit for people to have a personal relationship with God, not through one’s own ideologies or even themselves.
Wow... he soooo expresses (more eloquently than I've been able to) what so many of us are going through. "A bunch of words that don't seem to say a whole lot." Or "They're focused on changing the "coffee", when it's not about the "coffee". He's putting a face on something that people have reduced to a chart or a statistic. Thank you.
@@KennyVert I think you have to have experienced his walk to get what he is trying to say, don’t you?
Hard interview - yet the interviewer did very well addressing touch issues Jamon spoke about in his book. There is something happening lately with people picking up and leaving, which many tend to express as “they have a spirit of offense”. Jamon seems very intellectual and deep but the only concern I have personally is: we are in the last days and the Bible talks about the generations becoming wickeder and wickeder. All I hold on to is that God WILL continue to build His church and the gates of hell will not prevail. May the Holy Spirit be our teacher going forward!
He sounds like a very confused fellow with an issue of submitting to healthy and godly authority. He seems to have issue with the Word of God itself. Not sure why you're plaforming him Julie Roys? This is confusing
LANCE FORD here: Julie and I knew this interview would be a bit controversial for regular listeners/watchers of the RR. We felt it was important for us to hear what Jamin has to say, because his story, and present position syncs up with an increasing populace of former church goers. Out of love for others we need to do all we can to hear what they are saying--even when it is not clear what they are saying to us even after they have spoken. We should never forget the times in our own journey where clouds of confusion, disillusionment, and the temptation to give up prevailed. We must keep in mind the denial and abandonment of even the Apostle Peter, whom Jesus drew back to himself. What I did sense from Jamin in my visit with him is a sincere desire to continue in his walk with the Lord and to grow in it. It is also evident in the comments, that many people resonated or identified with where Jamin is. If we hope to grow in our witness and opportunity to reach an ever increasing populace of "nones" or "dones" --some whom may even be our own children--we must cultivate a loving patience that will earn a seat around a cup of coffee or breaking of bread as a safe, although uncompromising listening ear, that is willing to hear and respond in both grace and truth. When dealing with those outside the church, even those who were once inside, let us keep in mind the word of the Apostle Paul--Colossians 4:5-6
"Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone."
Maybe he will come back to clarify.
Trust is gone ❤
Indeed, it is.
Jesus came to our level and ministered to our pain and hurt, but He always guided us back to the Word of God the Father. He emphasized what the Father says about our lives and His perspective on our attitudes and behaviors. Unfortunately, Jesus does not always endorse the way we live.
Julie, I respect all your work but I have given this young man 15 minutes and I still don't know what his point is. Nothing concrete here.
I’m so shocked to see this interview with Jamin! I attended his family’s church for 5 years and I understand the environment he was raised in, which caused so much confusion and mixed messages about the gospel. I was so hurt and confused and lost when we decided to leave that church and it took a toll on my kids. Didn’t realize I had some ptsd from that experience until we moved and I tried attending a small church in town. But 15 minutes into the service I felt all those old feelings of shame and confusion and judgement coming back and realized I still had hurt I needed to deal with from that time. I pray blessings to him and his family, but it’s honestly hard to listen to this interview knowing how his reasoning was shaped by that church environment. I pray for everyone who came out of that church to find peace, true faith, honest godly community and healing. 🙏🏻
Please tell us what kind of church it was PLEASE! He was so vague I got next to nothing from it.
I've never lost my faith in Jesus, but I lost my faith in the church. In 2017, I began to realize that I was in an emotionally and verbally abusive marriage. I had always read Christian marriage books, but none helped my marriage. I started asking questions and doing my own research and personal counseling. After my divorce was final in 2022, I was having a hard time finding a church. This Fall, I finally gave up.
I was going to ask church and they started to compromise too much. I didn’t just quit going to church, I searched until I found one that preaches the Gospel, supports missionaries, plants churches, etc. We know where our tithes go. Good churches are out there! I see people leaving church as part of the great falling away. If you can’t find a Bible centered church, then start one!
Start one? That's alit easier said than done. Better to just seek out people who want genuine fellowship and ministry in a home setting. No expensive building to support or pastor salaries.
@ , a Bible study is church! So many good churches started with a Bible study.
Sometimes it's okay to say "I don't know."
I'm only 7 minutes in and I'm done. This person needs to give his heart to the Lord Jesus Christ, ask to be filled with His Holy Spirit according to Acts 2, then read and study the New Testament/Covenant, asking the Holy Spirit to teach him.
Truth should be able to withstand questions. We have been deconstructing for a few years now. I get it.
We have left the church in NZ. Raised Open Brethren, been to pentecostal, Baptist, back to OB then to a charasmatic pentecostal. They're all abusive in one form or another. I carry a lot of guilt over being churchless. I wish I had just one normal christian girlfriend! I am born again and believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah who shed his blood for my sin! That is all I know. The church is making people sick!✝️🙏🇳🇿🇳🇿
Prayers for you to find godly friends who will uphold you, and that you will be released from the feeling of guilt.
I guess I’m not very patient with this “deconstruction” movement. It seems each person is going to focus on their particular “bent” in life. I mean, yes, in the Old Testament it does say that about homosexuals, but it ALSO says that about adulterers and disobedient children! We need to help people understand the ENORMITY of our sin in contrast to the awesome HOLINESS of God. Christ was WILLINGLY BRUTALLY tortured and crucified to pay for our wicked sin that we take so lightly! I mean Christ says in Matthew 5:27-28 that our THOUGHTS of lust make us an adulterer, in I John 3:15 if we HATE anyone, we’re a murderer in the HOLY eyes of God! Jesus paid the ultimate price, we are FREE from the bonds of sin because of His GRACE and mercy if we accept, by faith, His gift we can have the Holy Spirit of God that WILL help us, through HIS POWER live a victorious Christian life!
Jesus went on to explain: “Concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged” (John 16:9-11, ESV).
The world is a sinful place, and one of the Holy Spirit’s tasks is to convict the world of its sin. No amount of preaching, pleading, or pointing of fingers will bring about the conviction of your sin, unless the (Holy Spirit) is at work in the (sinner’s heart). So Stop Looking At MAN to do a work he was never equipped or designed to do. It is ONLY the HOLY SPIRIT’s Job to convict. But more so the question should be her mind for each and everyone of us, Do You allow HIM to ? Have you ever even invited HIM in do to do a Work in Your Heart ? Do you even have a relationship with HIM? I pray all who read my words but the Holy Spirit will knock at the door your heart and you would invite him in just surrender your feelings your intellectual thoughts that you perceive to be good or right.
Hi Sister Julie Roys , Thank you for this video. Pastors should follow what Jesus Christ ask them to do. Church should be a place where we should learn more about christ so that we will be convicted of our sins and learn to love God and others in Christ and serve Jesus. But today’s church where wrong doctrines are taught and flesh has upper hand in life than Holy Spirit .
I pray that pastors should be sober and able to truly teach the word in God’s standard.
Not only is there a reluctance to answer questions but we have made the asking inappropriate or dangerous. Even though we raised our kids in conservative evangelicalism, we also taught them to question. That led to our high school daughter asking the youth pastor for a reference to support some questionable statement he made at youth group. That led to a private one or one where she was instructed that questioning him in front of others was inappropriate.
TH-cam is full of evangelical perspectives and many videos do not welcome other perspectives but in fact frame the talk to shut down, label as unbiblical (or even demonic) other viewpoints. Don’t question “the” truth.
Ps 23. Only one good Shepherd. Ezekiel 34 describes the evil " shepherd " preachers that abuse the sheep. This is why people are sick of the nonsense and the only answer is to run to the Good Shepherd. ☝️👑❤️
Not making sense at all
He wants you to buy his book, of course.
I understand what this brother is saying, but we need to be careful when explaining our decision. Why did he choose homosexuality as an example? Jesus was murdered for our sins. While this may not make sense to us, we accept it because there is a message in it that brings us comfort.
I think what we are seeing is fruit of what is happening in the church these days. I have struggled so much to find people I could ask questions of, have real discussions with. I was shamed and gaslit for everything with no conversation no explanation. It is a miracle I still have a faith in Christ and found my way. Still difficult to find like-minded community.
@@JillCee Amen!!! I totally agree.
I guess he belongs to Andy Stanley's church. He does not know yet.
Respectfull, I think you are missing the point.
Different than Andy Stanley and no need to say that about this person.
@@StephanieReyes-w8o 🤷♀️
Oppah gave motivational talks and gave money too.
She was helpful in some ways. But still should be marked and avoided. she shouldn't be listened to. People's eternity can be at stake. The fact these folks say some helpful things and donate to some charities may cause many to be deceived
With how many millions the rich have several thousand isn't even pocket change. They are giving such as it doesn't fizz on their life. A tax write off maybe? They still have millions in the bank and investments and interest
We should mark and avoid false teachers no matter how many false teachers there are. Jesus said false teachers would come and deceive many. Jesus said narrow is the way, and few there be that find it. Jesus said beware of false prophets. Wolves that are in sheep's clothing. Jesus said be not deceived.
False teachers do some good deeds and false teachers teach some helpful things and say some truthful things or else nobody would follow them.
Jim Jones sounded like he preached truth and he claimed to heal and sounded like he preached the Bible and Jesus. He deceived many.
If a person cons the poor and needy out of their money and uses it for their own desires, that is wrong. How could they be a genuine believer?
They don't have to be perfect but some standards must be met.
If they live in mansions and ignore the homeless outside their gate then how dwelleth the love of God in them?
If they have not love they do not even know God according to the Bible. Disqualified.
1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1 John 3:17
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
Pretty sure the rich man thought he was blessed by God and considered Lazarus evil and cursed. But he was wrong. He couldn't see his own heart let alone Lazarus's heart.
He went to haul and eternal torment and Lazarus went to eternal paradise.
Proverbs 21:13
Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard
Luke 16
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died,
and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom
Luke 10
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said,
He that shewed mercy on him.
Then said Jesus unto him,
Go, and do thou likewise.
Not watching all of this. He is just talking about himself.
I'm 48 years Old. $83,500 Biweekly and I'm retired. This video has inspired me greatly in many ways that I remember my past of how i struggled with many things in life to be where I am today!!!!
I’m feeling truly inspired.
Can you provide additional insights about the bi-weekly subject you mentioned?
I raised 184k and Anna Kathleen Sanford is to be thanked. I got my self my dream car 🚗 just last weekend, My journey with her started after my best friend came back from New York and saw me suffering in dept then told me about her and how to change my life through her. Anna K. Sanford is the kind of person one needs in his or her life! I got a home, a good husband, and a beautiful daughter. Note!:: this is not a promotion but me trying to make a point that no matter what happens, always have faith and keep living!!
Whoa 😲 I know her too!
Miss Anna Kathleen Sanford is an incredible person who has brought immense inspiration and positivity into my life.
I meagerly kicked off with $2k, and the results have been Jaw-dropping TBH!!!
I know that woman(Anna Kathleen Sanford)
If you grew up in new York, you’d know her too. There’s no ßingle doubt she’s the one that helped you make it to where you are now!
What are some of the questions that they ask? Everybody has questions! Need examples of what he is talking about!?
He gave one. Why in the Bible, God did instruct it to kill gays? He probably was a Christian from association to his father. But it is clear why. In the same way, it is clear for liars, fornicators, adulterous, etc.
I think this video does a great job at explaining the problem, but I don't hear us prescribing a solution......
As I thought more about this whole subject of deconstruction/reconstruction this morning I'm wondering if the solution simply boils down to an alternative way of viewing the Bible.
Deconstruction seems to be a criticism of the plenary inspiration view held by fundamentalists. The alternatives include partial inspiration dynamic inspiration neo Orthodox amongst others.
A pastor ,leader ,needs to say I don't know if they dont know ,but let's pray and seek God about that question. Be humble ,there are some answers we just have to take by faith.and seek God for the answer and wait on God or just trust God knows ,and we aren't God ,His ways are much higher and we as mere humans ,maybe arenot capable of understanding why ? Try explaining to a baby in the hospital ,getting stuck with needles ,in pain, But the parent in no way can explain why? Make that baby understand as they are not mature enough. But all you can do is comfort that baby , hold them, 8r sometimes uou can't even touch them .but you know you love them and it's impossible to explain to the baby why there in pain and it's that way with God with some of our questions.
No other comments here yet? I'm listening to this guy, and thinking what a shame that apparently no one helped him learn how to study Scripture for himself to get his own questions answered. That's the best way to get to clarity and solidity, because you found it for yourself, instead of simply accepting someone's word for something, which is not as firm a foundation.
perfectly said.. thank you… I’m out
Well, he never said what his questions were. Maybe his question was church specific
This guy would drive me nuts. Like the Pharisees he would find fault in Jesus Himself. There are many things that we the church are guilty of and yes they should be addressed, but at the same time it would require everyone of us to imitate Jesus to perfection in order to accomplish what only He can do.
All the more reason for us who are in churches to encourage a culture of repentance and reconciliation wherever possible. So many stories of people leaving and no one taking accountability, not enough of saying “I’m sorry,” doing whatever is needed to help heal the damage, and working toward restoring peace.
Thank you well done
One of the greatest truths the Lord has revealed to me is that deliverance has been fundamental in my journey to freedom and restoration. I have been attending a deliverance church now for the past 24 years and have received the Lord’s ongoing healing and deliverance. I have witnessed a transformation unlike I had ever experienced when I was attending Charismatic churches for 20 years prior to embracing deliverance. There are only a handful of churches that integrate deliverance as a main part of their weekly church services; and it seems that all kinds of erroneous doctrines get taught when churches leave out or deny deliverance altogether. Jesus placed a huge emphasis on deliverance; but unfortunately, the churches do not want to touch it or talk about it. I believe that is why so many Christians are struggling and are not getting free from their wounds and demonic strongholds, and therefore, leaving these churches.
After listening to 1/3 of this podcast and reading a dozen comments, it appears to me that this man's frustrations with church are confirmed in a way by people's inability to understand his struggles. What I hear him saying is that he has found church goers to be so insecure in their beliefs that they can't be intellectually honest about how difficult it is to know with certainty many of the things considered to be evangelical orthodoxy
Cognitive dissonance to what has become evangelical culture and how they interpreted the Bible is what began my deconstruction.
To me Christian congregation should be all about :
Isaiah 1:18 :
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
My questions should be seen as : "please help me understand better", rather than : I'm challenging you and/or The Bible".
Yes, but Marcus Lamb was having a seven year adulterous affair which clearly breaks the ten commandments yet the viewers forgave him but not Oprah who had abortion due to incest which was not her fault...the church is one sided in forgiveness.
If he has so many questions he should read the whole bible for himself to answer his own questions and stop being so confused
Yes, that is correct!....
Very confusing
Well, Jesus met the woman at the well “where she was” and he told her the truth about her heart and then told her to “go and sin no more.” So maybe this guy doesn’t want to know the truth of Jesus? Maybe he wants a different Bible or church than what God intended. Jesus is loving, but also called out sin from sexual sin to financial greed. You have to want all of Jesus, not just the warm and fuzzy parts. The organized church is part of His plan. And it’s made up of sinners and hypocrites so we will always be disappointed and “hurt by the church” if we expect a utopia here on earth. We arent called to withdraw from the church but to grow with the “tares”, work to improve it, and be unified in spite of our hurts and differences.
Oh wow! I have seen all these things in various denominations since I became a Christian in college in 1990. It is not limited to evangelicals at all. I can’t tell you how much manipulation there was from the start. Fortunately, I never lost sight of Jesus but I did go through a very dark time. And yeah, pastors as a whole are just very inaccessible as a whole. And the false persona is so strongly promoted for the sole reason of getting people drawn to the church.
As I listen I must speak
It’s up to each of us to study the scriptures NOT to ask another human! Holy Spirit is our teacher. The building called the church is NOT the church(the body of Christ). Am really sickened of the blaming everyone else because our men of the cloth are not teachers. Each of us are to take accountability to be responsible for what we need answers to. Counselors are good
Indeed. I hate the spirits of religion just like Jesus did and does. I hear you… IF we want to follow Christ it will cost us everyone and everything. Jesus told us 🤭🤭
Thank you.
When you're working for 💰, you're not working for God.
We canNOT serve both.
This guy is a very dangerous man to the cause of Christ. I don't think he is doing Jesus. Very, very, very disappointing interview.
Yes, he is planting seeds. I will not buy a book like that. I do have questions. One day, God will answer them for me. Humans won't, and they can't.
Good grief, he is not dangerous. He is simply asking questions. Stop with the fear mongering
What he’s saying feels threatening and uncomfortable to you. I think that is more accurate.
One of the poorest interviews ive seen. Im surprised, Julie usually picks better speakers than this.
Specifically it’s the lack of intellectual honesty and arrogance. “I’m right, you’re wrong”. God’s after unity of disciples. Disciples inherently ask questions and there’s too much Marxist group think in the “body”. Who has time for that anymore? I don’t. I want to know my Father more.
I'm 15 minutes in, and you still haven't told me what beliefs you were actually deconstructing...
I still don't know why you left the Church?
I don’t think Christianity is in a death spiral but I do think the American Institutional Church is.
Is it true that the following 16 ministries have left Daystar?
1. Ed Young
2. James Merritt
3. Dr. Wonder’s Workshop
4. Ashley & Carly Terradez
5. Danet Crawford
6. Joyce Meyer
7. Dot Lawson Purdue
8. Jesse Duplantis
9. Lance Wallnau
10. Laura Lynn
11. Baruch Korman
12. Kobe & Shun Ferguson
13. Hank & Brenda Kunneman
14. Mark Chirrona
15. Jack Graham
16. Russell Johnson
We are all broken ppl, the church shld act more like a hosp for the wounded. I’m sorry you were hurt in the church. There are hurt & lonely ppl sitting in those church pews! ‘Mourn with those who mourn, rejoice with those who rejoice’. Help to bear one another’s burdens. Seek to understand before being understood… ‘care’
So incredibly hard to find that. I agree with you.
Wish there were more answers from The Word- sounds as if he had my parents 70’s mindset…
“I’m OK 👍🏼 and
YOU’RE ✅ OK!
OK?”
No foundation and a “we’re good” ideology.
I left this convo empty
Kinda sad for him and the rest of us with more questions 🧐
I don't believe in going to church, but being the church. I don't even fully know what that is right now. I'm asking God to show me what He is saying and His heart for His Body and when we gather...which is a necessary gift...to gather more and more...but I am reading through the New Testament Chronologically and hoping I'll see what God is saying, rather than what man has told me church is. I've simply trusted the lense church has told me is what God and the New Testament is describing. I don't believe that, anymore. I'm still reading through the gospels right now, which takes time. It's kinda frustrating how slow it is since this is the first time in my life not "going to church" and I have teenagers and young adults. But I have to know if the tradition of "going to church" is man made and man's tradition or is this what God was saying by go and make disciples, submit one to another, and fellowship and gather. I trust God. I don't trust church.
The ekklesia is perfect because we belong to God and are His workmanship. But I'm not expecting "perfection" as we learn to truly love one another and function and grow together. But I do not want to be in, or belong to an unhealthy system, which locks us in and is really destructive and distracting, just so I can say "I'm going to church."
And with sharing the golspel, I want to point people to Jesus, but right now I would not know where to point them to fellowship. Oh, Lord help!
If this is how he speaks I can only imagine how the book is written.
There are sheep from the ex-evangelical camp that will not go into another religious order unless they can think for themselves and be allowed to always question what is being taught to them. If you cannot then we will go on our merry way.
Stop using the Bible as a rule book. If you need a book to tell you to be good,and that you must believe to be right,and that you should be afraid because your no good, then you have missed the plot because that’s what you have been wrongly taught…..Im sorry, I feel for you…The Bible is a tool of learning for you not a sword to kill another
Though this young man has valid points but I don't think this is the biggest problem as to 'why' many are becoming 'ex-evangelical'. My biggest problem, as a 'nearly ex-evangelical' is not the inability of the 'leaders' to answer all my difficult question (who can really?), its the inability for so many believers, especially the leaders, to live up to the basic commandment, "if anyone want to be first, he must be the last of all and the servant of all" Mark 9:35. In my 40 years of walking with my Lord Jesus, I have yet to see a 'leader' of a church (big or small) come out and help one of his members move their belongings to a new home, literally. Not only that, I am often the only to shown up to help someone move. I'm not saying this to 'brag' about how generous I am. I'm saying it because it's TRUE. If the believers in churches can't even do the simple things required of them (help a brother/sister in need) than I think that's the reason their pews are emptying by the thousand because the 'leaders' are good examples!
THIS!!!! 🎯🎯🎯👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I have leave this converstion He doesnt make much sense. Prayers. The Holy Spirit is our teacher. We cant go wrong. Help him Lord🙏
Agree
Jesus gave a way out for all believers in churches throughout the ages , whom find themselves battling any kind of immorality and have needed help. It’s called deliverance !
And , maybe one problem that may surface among Christians in the evangelical churches is that these denominations of Christians largely do not administer deliverance. Immorality is expressed in different ways ; but it all requires the same remedy, according to the scriptures , which is deliverance .
So, therefore, any believer struggling with immorality at any stage of their life can seek deliverance . Immorality comprises situations similar to what has come out of Daystar: such as adultery and sa ( and fornication and homosexuality ). It’s all there written in the scriptures , almost 2000 years , in which the Apostle Paul had addressed these issues of immorality.
Matthew 11:28-30. Jesus says His yoke is light. It’s okay to not know everything and lean on the church accepted tenets. This is what I tell my kids. Right now, young people are being challenged about even the basics outlined in Genesis 1. There are people who focus on any inconsistency. Been there done that. Christian schools see these challenges everyday, mostly by young ppl looking for new revelation. The new discoveries definitely comes in the form of how God works in an indivdusl’s life and not new revelation in the basic tenets of Christianity. His yoke is light and we can be satisfied by Jesus.
I have with this church for approximately fifteen years…. I have never met with or spoke with the pastor!! I have attempted to connect with the ministry via letters but they ignored my attempts! He appears to be too busy and he has pushed the older generation aside and caters only to the younger generation!! The leadership comes across as a cliche!!
1/18/25 TBN founder Paul Crouch died November 30, Daystar founder Marcus Lamb died November 30, both murder, possibly??
Jesus is my/our spiritual authority. When our “leaders” shun or get defensive at questions, they want blind obedience which can be dangerous. I was in a destructive NAR “Christian” cult that gaslit, didn’t like questions & shunned people who left. I’m so glad I’m free. I left the church system but not Jesus. I’m want a Home Bible study that actually studies the Bible.
Jesus said if you’ve seen me you’ve seen the Father. So was Jesus guiding us to worship & know God thru him, not wanting himself to be worshipped??
The main problem by far are the false doctrines of "once saved always saved" and "only believe," which give license to sin without ever fully repenting and reconciling. Almost all "Christians" today are lust addicted in their hearts, which is demon driven. External adultery happens when people willfully sin internally without fully repenting. What did Jesus say happens to those who lust after people from their hearts in Matthew 5?
Pastors and teachers don't teach what the Bible says, so we have not even one church that has a reputation for being alive, and Satan is destroying the US at warp speed now.
The solution is James 4 and Ephesians 4:11-16 being our goal, along with Jesus' prayer in John 17.
Michael Brown could have taught the truth that would set us free, but he taught hyper grace too, while claiming to teach against it.
I'm a little saddened by all the negative comments on this interview, even tho I understand where they are coming from. It just shows me how little that many Christians understand what IS and has been going on in the Western church for decades.
I just read "Invisible Jesus" by Scot McKnight & Tommy Phillips. I actually handed out several copies. My giftings have been in the area of evangelism. In recent years I've come to realize that in order to wittness for Jesus these days we have to be able to address people's questions about all of the things going on in the church because they are wondering. And if someone DOES accept Christ through our wittness, then where do we tell them to go???
If you have a church that you love and where you have great fellowship and are growing then be thankful and pray that for others. Because those places are getting increasingly hard to find.
I don't agree with much of what this young man says, yet I see how he got there. It amazes me how much a part of Jesus' message was directed at the errors of the religious leaders of His day.
I'm still very orthodox in my Christian beliefs, and I believe that sin is sin. But I also believe that we are in the middle of some kind of reformation. Where it will go I just don't know. But I do have hope that God is moving.
I do not have a "church" at present myself. But I just volunteered to help out at a local food pantry. I'm praying that I will meet some others to fellowship with. Is that wrong?
What I noticed; true Christians left their churches due to it no longer follow the scriptures in deed and doctrinally.
While on the opposite side; Those who are not real believers left their church because; 1. They don't tickle their ears.. 2. They don't compromise 3. They don't tolerate habitual practice of sin..
There's no such a thing as a perfect church.. But if it follow God's Word faithfully it'll lead them to the one and only perfect and true Holy God of the scriptures...
As I understand this guy was grew up in church and served in it basically his whole life till 39.
Maybe he is just wanting an early church model that is uncomplicated and less business feel like.
I too am a pastors kid- seen a lot and have been in defferent denominations.
Pray he gets a place that is authentic and scripturally sound
Of course there are some parts of the Bible that do not make sense to the reader. It wasn't written to them directly, but was written into a historical, cultural context that we are significantly removed from. That's why commentaries and more experienced believers in the Word are helpful. But to say that the Bible doesn't make sense is an entirely different thing. So much of this conversation sounds like a basic discipleship issue. Becoming a believer involves submitting to the Lordship of Jesus and yielding my personal opinions to the truth of the Word. When it doesn't make sense to us, we don't assume the Bible is wrong, we assume we don't understand it. We ask God to teach us and show us. There are tons of solid answers to very difficult questions. But the real question is whether someone is willing to yield their high-minded opinions to the truth of God. Frankly, this is basic discipleship. Most of this conversation feels like Jamin and ones he is representing did not have a caring, genuine leader who knew how to walk them through the process of fully surrendering to Jesus's Lordship combined with tools to understand the Bible.
The truth is, God is leading people out of the organization of religion and into personal relationship with Himself so that He can do what those behind the pulpit cannot do- that is to make His Word 100% completely harmonic and comprehensive.
There are NO contradictions in God's Word- NONE WHATSOEVER. The problem is that those in the pulpit keep making it seem like it is, sadly, because of their lack of understanding it and their mistake of putting their ministry above their own relationships with God.
GOD IS DECONSTRUCTING THE CHURCH- NOT PEOPLE!!! He's reforming His Bride His way!!!