Because Wade is second only to Kobe, if you pick Kobe to start, you have to trade Wade. He would be wasted coming off the bench, but it doesn't make sense to have him and Kobe on the same team if they are both prime. B
Lazy or not, Vince definitely underachieved with all the gifts. He was great entertainment for the fans, but not feared enough by opponents, there is a reason
@@mharp6166 Which is not fair with Lebron. Greater abilities and different situation and Lebron filled the responsibilities. The redeem generated by 2011, the 2012 win, with the disadvantage too, versus those Celtics, the perfect performances in the two 2012 and 2013 Finals (getting it done confidently, like only Tim Duncan could do) and the 2016 comeback seal it. An output and an achieving not even comparable with specifically VC's output as well.
Vince wasn't lazy. You don't play 20 plus years and be lazy. You don't go from a dunker with a pretty good jump shot to actually in his time the guy with the most range in the league. Point blank. When Vince Carter was playing with the New Jersey that's he had the most range in the NBA. You don't go from a dunker to that without hard work. I'll give the big reason why Vince didn't realize his potential where he was drafted. People don't realize how big of an impact that has on your career. No disrespected Kobe because Kobe was a better play than Vince, but do you think his career is the same if he actually ended up on Charlotte? Do you think he's a 20-year Charlotte hornet player with five rings? Do you think if he doesn't have Jerry West and Phil Jackson and Shaq, Nick van exel, Eddie Jones around at the beginning of his career didn't help MASSIVELY? Compare that to the Toronto franchise that Vince was playing with washed Hakeem.. Washed up muggsy bogues. Revolving door of mediocre coaches. Honestly, I think what Vince's mindset and skills the Lakers probably win more than three championships because he wouldn't have been so thirsty to be the top dog over shaq. And in the early 2000s Vince and Kobe were around the same except Vince had a better jump shot. Kobe was better defensively
Gil is simply saying that with Vince’s ability he should have been in the conversations with Kobe, LeBron, and Jordan but he lacked that killer instinct.
It’s often overlooked, but Vince’s peak performance in 2000-2001 can be attributed to the influence of veterans like Charles Oakley, Antonio Davis, Kevin Willis, Dell Curry, and Mugsy Bogues. These experienced players set high standards and held Vince accountable. The dynamic noticeably changed when Charles Oakley, a key figure in maintaining discipline and professionalism, left the Raptors. This shift marked a turning point in Vince’s career, as he no longer had the same level of veteran guidance and accountability. He was surrounded by players inferior to him and they didn’t have the reps and toughness that would check Vince. I’m from Toronto and nobody can deny that we lost the grit and toughness once Oakley wasn’t brought back. Vince needed dogs on the team to get the most out of him.
I’m from Toronto and saw him play since he joined the league, and Arenas is 1000% correct. Vince was athletically gifted and didn’t have the commitment and mentality to go to the next level.
And unlike VC Gilbert, flaws-wise, doesn't deserve to be called stupid because he was also smart and focused enough to accomplish what he did and could. It's not just work that made Gil very good in the late 2000s. He blew it at certain points and especially late in one year. Vince was lazy and didn't have what it takes and took for his advantageous point, it was always a foundational problem, Gil can't be called stupid instead because of some bad decisions or Playoffs failures with the Wizards team. If he was stupid or a total nut, he wouldn't have got past his bench days with the Warriors early in the 2000s (while VC was having a terrible falling out, if not quit job, with his original franchise, the Raptors in Toronto).
8:16 this is probably one of Gil’s greatest dissection of a player I’ve heard and it really open my eyes and mind. This is where Gil is at his absolute best
This applies to both Hill but that was more needed time away for injury and VC. Just 100% applies to VC. No reason other than self drive VC isnt mentioned in same breath as Kobe Wade and MJ.
That's right, led. Thank god that Shaq and Mourning played and were there versus the Mavs lineup, otherwise... It's cool though, leading, and to a title, is notches beyond what a 2000s Raptors can get with Carter instead of Wade and what VC could ever do.
@@dusk6159 uk D wade avg 28ppg 6 rpg n apg wit 2 steals n a block Shaq avg 18 ppg 9 rpg n 1.5 blks mourning put up 4 points games ppl need to stop acting like D Wade never did anything in his career smh of course he needed his big men to win its still a team sport but he was by far the best player on that team even Shaq knew that
The fact that someone on a basketball show said 2000 Vince Carter was the best in the league at the same time 34 for the Lakers was dominating is pretty insane.
If its absolute prime, Tmac might be my go to since he could actually play with Kobe when the games on the line and not have a ton of overlap. DWade is the 2nd best player on this list though, they disrespect him bad on this podcast regularly.
@@AlejandroCruz-ih9bc I hear you but there’s a difference between being your least favorite and the most accomplished. Wade is one of the best 2 way players ever
Vince Carter said himself he wished he took the game seriously early in his career. He turned around and became the consummate professional later in his career but that was well after he had his opportunity to be the best player. If Vince maximized his talent like a Kobe, Lebron or others it would’ve been a wrap. He had every tool in his bag. He was a complete scorer and almost no flaws in his game.
Only flaw he had was above the shoulders. I hate McCants arguing he got messed up when he got traded. He begged to be traded out of TOR and he clearly quit on them. You quit one place you quit others. TOR messed up but they traded him for the corpse of Mourning after his liver problems and a few meaningless picks. They just wanted to get rid of him.
@@capitanawesome44 worst thing was they waived mourning only for him to revive and win a chip with Dwade and Shaq 😂 those onions baby onions raptors really wasted my teens
Jordan once said vince would hsve been better than kobe , he just didn't have the motivation to be the best like kobe did. Garnett once said if vince played in the regular season the way he did in the Olympics ( angry and pissed off) he would have been the top dude in the league. As far as skill and talent vince was unreal. He was shooting 35 footers long before kobe and tmac were. He shot 41% from 3 on 6 attempts per game in 2001 . Back than unless you were ray ray or Reggie that was unheard of. Vince had one of the DEEPEST offensive bags you've ever seen. Add the trick shot layups , jaw dropping dunks, unreal fade aways . Had a BEAUTIFUL jumper. He was my favorite player forever. His advanced metrics from his 2001 season are among the best league if you look at each of his individual PER statistics
Some people forget this little fact. Vince Carter was a leading scorer for a gold medal winning Olympic team. The players who have done that are some legendary names.
Vince never lived up to his full potential is what Gil is trying to say and I agree with him. 7 footers couldnt do nothin with vince if he came down the lane, dud was unstoppable. He really shouldve been in the conversation as greatest of all time.
@@Sam-oo6wy Those 3pt stats are because he played for so long. Ray Allen played 17 seasons and has like 1000 more threes than VC despite VC playing 22 seasons so if VC had played the same number of seasons as Ray Allen he wouldn't be anywhere on that list. VC is 9th all time but everyone else on the list (top 50) has played less games than him. Literally everyone. Not a single player on that list has played more games than VC so it's clearly longevity stats.
Yes this is true but he made incredible shots because he didn’t do the hard work to get easier shots. I was ecstatic when the Nets got him but after watching him face Wade I determined he was more talented but not as hard working as Wade. I challenge people to go watch that NJ vs. Mia series.
Gil had me lost for a minute when he said my guy was lazy, but he made it make sense. Vince was certainly no scrub, yet he could've been that dude of the NBA for real. Good take, Gil. On another note, some players just want to do what they love without all of the pressure of being "the man". Vince may have just simply enjoyed his role and his income without all of the added. This is one of my favorite podcasts, by the way. Please keep up the amazing work.
The Disrespect of #3 is mind boggling. The third greatest SG in NBA history 🤦🏾♂️ People are entitled to their opinions, but they shouldn’t be allowed to negate the facts on such platforms. I’ve always loved & respected Gil, because he’s always been a realist, and respects the game.
Gil is usually out of pocket but he’s right on this. Wade and T Mac bodies gave out, Kobe reached his full potential but with Vince you always felt like there was something more and it never happened
I used to love to watch Gilbert arenas play especially in the agent zero days, but literally EVERYONE on that list is a better baller and has a better career
Gil has some valid points about VC's career. Think about this way: If you saw prime VC, especially after his 2nd season and Olympic year, and then I told you that: i. He would NEVER average more than 27 ppg for the rest of his career after his 3rd year ii. NEVER lead the NBA in scoring iii. NEVER win MVP iv. NEVER made the NBA Finals v. NEVER win a NBA title vi. NOT be in the Top 75 Team You would accuse me of smoking some serious shit and call me crazy! The adage "Hard work always trumps talent when talent doesn't work hard..." applies to VC!
VC has always been my favorite player, to this day I don't think I've seen a player with a bigger bag of moves and ways to score the ball, he had it all. Still, I believe he could have been far greater if he deferred less especially in orlando
Yea in Orlando he should had tried to be more dominant! Couldn’t stand how he played there! Also I think the Coach didn’t help cuz the style they wanted to play but still get what you’re saying .
For conversations like these, I wish we could handpick Gil's castmates cause he be coming with stats for his arguments that he obviously has analyzed and it's like the other two didn't know the question was coming. Mccants and Lexie know the popular radio singles, but Gil be knowing the unreleased, hidden bonus tracks from the album.
Vince was phenomenal from around 2000-2008. Injuries, new roles, being too unselfish and nice prevented him from staying near Kobe's level. But you can't criticize a mans work ethic when you never witnessed it. Being nice on the court is not the same a being lazy when practicing! Doesn't mean he shouldn't have been even better and for longer. At times he was nearly the best player in the league where he'd average over 35 for almost a month (which was insane back then). There came a point when he stopped attacking the basket (early 2008 after a very bad ankle injury) and his explosive agressive game never really returned. Very sad, because he was the most spectacular player (and most popular) for a few years.
Still tho. He could have the time to become an elite shooter. Would have been ideal to do that after the injury. On or Off ball shooter. Or even up his post up game.
That’s not the point though, he sustained himself to play long , not to be as great as he can be. Playing 22 years is cool , but playing 15 years and being the greatest at your position is two different things. Same argument with Shaq
22 seasons of never being the guy to drag/carry a team to the finals. (or make a deep run as an underdog) Nor adapt his game to stay a relevant starter late in his career. I loved watching VC show live in Toronto, but I would have rather have had a *healthy* TMac leading the Raptors for his prime. He had that that drive to add to his bag, because he was always treated as "the lesser cousin" in high school & later Toronto. And, that was after Toronto showed they had low expectations of him on draft night! It was only MJ's pouting (&threats) that stopped his draft night trade (1:1) for Pippen. *AFTER* the Raptors had already submitted their side of the paperwork to the league office, and directly notified TMac & his agent of the post-selection trade being done. [From TMac's own mouth when he was in his sweaters co-hosting with the Redhead at ESPN]
Vince was never the guy, didn’t start improving until he was tapering off his athleticism. I dislike Wade as a person but his prime was head and shoulders above Vince.
@@Twysthoryeah for sure wade out performs Vince in any category.. what are people gonna say? Vince beats him at dunking? Lol wade was a dunker too and Vince was slightly or just better than wade in that category
Vince attended his graduation on the day he had a game 7 against AI and the sixers. That tells you the level of commitment he had to the game. I'm not saying he's not committed because he certainly was but he wasn't Kobe/MJ borderline insane committed.
thats about commitment....not laziness. same could be said with AI and practice or AI and partying. and even if he had all that commitment, he still wasn't mike/kobe or any of those dudes (nobody was). gill talks about how committed he was to his craft, gill aint make that many all nba selections let alone mvps.
Sometimes I have to agree with Gil and this is one of those times. Vince was my favorite player to take over from MJ and he just went down hill. If he had Kobe mentality, he would’ve dominated. He was naturally more gifted.
the kobe mentality can only take you so far you need to have actual all nba teammates to win a ring. Specifically big men and vince didnt have that. kobe had shaq/pau, Pierce and allen had KG at the same time, Manu had Timmy. The raptors and nets failed to surround VC with a true contending supporting cast
I was a grad student in Toronto in the 90's and became a Raptors fan after Mario Tremblay destroyed my Canadiens and Patrick Roy left for the Avalanche. Vince became my favourite player. I watched this man live in his prime. There is a reason Shaq in his prime called him half-man, half-amazing. He was the next MJ, but didn't have that killer attitude. If Vince had half of Kobe's attitude, or half of MJ's "I took that personally" - he might be top 5 in the GOAT debate.
Absolutly. As far as raw talent goes, he was better then kobe. There was a point in time where people would actually compare them. Kobe's work ethic was really the x factor.
Every players different,each has their own mindset.So glad he wasn't an &&&hole like Kobe and MJ and a ball hog. MJ was a bully,plain and simple,he gave Steve Kerr a black eye because he dared to stand-up to MJ. He told team-mates not to pass the ball to Bill Cartwright ( he said he had bad hands ) Bill threatened to break both MJ's legs. Kobe should've had that killer instinct instead of going thru a rape trial,that incident smeared his legacy.
He could shoot threes and dunk. He didn't have handles. He didn't have a mid-range game. He wasn't as dominant in the post as his body and athleticism suggested he should be. What was his go-to move? Stackhouse was compared to Jordan before him, and I think Stack was a better overall player than Vince. Not to say Vince wasn't very good, but he definitely didn't end up being as good as when I saw him at Mainland going into UNC...
They compared both Vince & Kobe to Jordan. Around 2000-2001 Jordan himself shut that shit down with Vince but welcomed the Kobe comparisons because he was a two way player. That is a verifiable fact.
How hard is it to understand Gil feels like Vince just didn't live up to his potential. He was a beast that should have been running the league but never met that due to his work ethic.
Gil has a point. Vince showed the killer mentality only when he was angry or playing against the Miami heat. Dunked over the guy in the Olympic player cuz he was pissed his agent stole millions from him. Dunked on Alonzo mourning cuz Alonzo kept fouling him going to the basket. I say that to say this. I would take Vince talent but wouldn’t put him over T Mac, Kobe, or Wade if I had to pick the best mentality.
Even with vince playing angry and aggressive against the heat, wade still eliminated him two years in a row in 05 and 06. Vince should be the one to get cut
Team game. The others on the list are all 6'6+ with 3 levels of scoring. Wade was amazing and a monster athlete, leader and scorer but definitely had the least natural talent when it came to ball. (Heat fan)
He does not have a point. Vince, at one point was in the top three for all game-winning shots of active players up until like close to the 2010s. Go look up his game winners and tell me he didn't have a killer mentality. Not many players during his generation shot and made more and percentage-wise. He was near the top of the list in crunch time
@@JonReynoldsESQ or the organization..let's be honest. I don't think Kobe ends up a 20 year hornet with 5 rings. I don't think if wade was on the bobcats his career is the same
People forget Vince said, while still playing in Toronto, that he may never dunk again. He wanted out. He wasnt mentally strong - that is my opinion. I also agree with Gil's assessment.
I'm with Gil... Vince peeked early to have been in the league for so long. He retired in what 2021 but last averaged 20 in 2007... I'm sure the other 3 averaged 20+ for their career
Rashad was really saying Vince was the best player in the league in 2000/2001 timeframe like Shaq just disappeared. Not to mention Kobe started to hit his stride in 01 and A.I. won MVP
DWade led his team to a championship. When his back was against the wall he put an all time great performance to send an all time talent in Dirk packing. TMac has never made it out the first round in the playoffs and even if you omit his bad teams its literally his fault. Im so tired of TMac getting overrated because he was a great offensive player and has some really dope highlights. But go look at Tmacs history man. Hes who people think James Harden is in the playoffs. Prime harden being stuck in the first round doesnt even sound right. Tayshaun prince was a rookie and shut mac out of a playoff series after Mac was cooking the pistons. Its really unacceptable to put him over Wade at his peak.
Wade had shaq before that he was losing after shaq left he started losing again. then he had lebron and bosh then started losing again after they left.
And that was just the 2nd year in his career his rookie year he made it to the playoffs by himself..when he hit the step back on baron davis ..and guess what lebron nor Carmelo made it to the playoffs and they was the bigger names as rookies and he ain’t have washed up shaq yet …and I remember all this like yesterday
@@gonchanlihe wasn’t losing what are us talking about 😂😂😂😂😂 wade first season he with to the playoffs and lebron and melo went home they first season second season ..washed up shaq came and they won in his second season …so what losses was he taking again or u just yapping ya jibbz
@@gonchanli lol Tmac had yao n grant couldnt make it out the first round and Vince had with j kidd, Dirk hell even his own family in Tmac never made it to the finals so what you saying other than your a casual go back and look at 09 wade was on a mission by himself y'all try to disrespect him n his greatness bc of his choices as parent seems like bc what can you say about his game other than he wasn't a great shooter
It's more accurate to say that Vince wasn't as competitive and serious as MJ and Kobe. Vince clearly had put in work to maintain his body in order to play as long as he did. He was still able to posterize anybody at anytime but he did expand his game. He also got along better with teammates than Michael and Kobe and he was OK with stepping back despite the athleticism, skill, and talent. Gilbert himself has said that he knew not to piss him off or motivate him and we all know his ass will say and or do anything crazy at any given moment.
Dats true Gil, Vince didn’t take his skill to the next level. Whereas he had potential to be a top 25 player of all time, but he settled for the longevity route.
@@cosmos9627even tho it sounds harsh calling him lazy but kobe himself said Vince should’ve been getting comparisons to mj himself if he had better work ethic… now he isn’t even a top 75..
He does, 57 more blocks than second place (MJ). Jordan got slightly more blocks per game and T-Mac's BPG is about the same as Wade's but D-Wade played a lot more games than both of them.
We actually SAW FIRST HAND when Kobe started, and DWADE came off the bench. The world got TORCHED. Wade lead the team in scoring although he came off the bench. And was GAME changing.
That was a different circumstance you can’t discount them having Bron, CP and several other HOFs against international comp which varies more compared to NBA where every team is good. Maybe they would have been better w/ Vince coming off. Vince had his share of highlights for team USA previously
delusional Kobe fanboys overrate him bigtime. After Shaq he didn't make the playoffs and 2 first round exits. Became relevant because of Gasol, Bynum, Odom, the best front court during that time, the Lakers biggest advantage in the league during that team.
He led the league in scoring in back to back seasons, finished top 5 in mvp voting in back to back seasons, had over 10 50 point games in just 2 years, including an 81 and 2 60s. Had a 50 ball in the playoffs. Also made all defensive first team twice. Thats literally killing it
I totally agree. Vince playing 22 years and wasn’t even in top 10 scoring all time even though he was the best all around player. He could literally do everything on the court and his only title is “maybe” the best dunker.
I agree with Gil. I was born and raised in Toronto. I actually went to the Dr. Funk commercial that he did with peewee Kirkland and a whole bunch of other people in Scarborough Ontario. He was the reason why most of us watched Raptors basketball. and there were just nights that he just wouldn’t give you anything. I don’t know if he was hurt or whatever it was but it was like one day he was Superman and the next day he really was just Clark Kent.
@@VengeanceSinX the point still stands, and just living in Toronto wouldn’t tell me everything, even if I virtually watched every game but I would assume that someone who played against him like Gil would know. Thanks
Vince Carter is a Hall of Famer. I just read the title, don't know what idiotic statements will be made😂😂😂. I don't understand why people like hearing from Gil show he is the King of Cap
I think start bench cut trade is actually very valid. It makes you think more about the value of a player on another team/role vs just their performance in total. I think trade vs cut makes someone really have to think about who really has nba value
@@antant908She just didn't understand why the trade part was needed coz it's usually only start, bench, and cut. She even stated @0:40 onwards that to her cut and trade are basically the same coz they essentially are both off the team and gil had to tell her that trading someone means he's still valuable rather than someone you cut because you think he's of no use to you.
I never heard someone disrespect a guy by cutting him yet show him the utmost respect at the same time! I can definitely understand where Gil is coming from
I always say there are two kinds of people: those who are born with special skills and those who work super hard to catch up with them. Take Vince, for example. He was a natural athlete, especially when it came to jumping out the gym/shooting mid-range/long range, etc. If he had also been super focused and driven, like Kobe Bryant, he could have been one of the best basketball players ever. So, when Gilbert says he wants to mix Vince’s great basketball skills with a fierce attitude, he’s saying something a lot of fans and players have probably been thinking for years.
He's my favorite player of all time. I always felt that he had the ability/talent to be better than Kobe or at least right there in the conversation through his whole career. His skill level was insane, he could score at will, jump like crazy, could shoot the 3, was clutch etc. He showed in that 2005 run when he got traded to the Nets and took them to the playoffs, dude was unstoppable.
No question Carter had great potential, but he wasn't lazy. He may have lacked the obsessive attitude of other greats like Jordan or Bryant, but he wasn't lazy. Carter was amazing and fun to watch. Hard to watch the the dunk contest knowing how it was in the past. Also Carter wanted out of Toronto.
You don’t have to be a former NBA player to conclude that Vince Carter could’ve been a lot better if he had worked harder. Skills and abilities are perfected with practice and repetition. He apparently didn’t do as much as he could have, especially since his last All-Star appearance was in 2009, but he played about 12 more seasons after that.
This is an incorrect statement. Vince got traded to a team with a Point God that ran the show. Mike Kobe Wade or Mac NEVER had that they ran the offense.
@@bliine What happened post-season wise then, when Vince was running the show for years? If he couldn't get numbers because of the luxury of having JKidd
@@dusk6159 he did his thing in Toronto in the playoffs so what he missed a buzzer to move on. Vince did his thing in Toronto in NJ it was the J Kidd show.
Vince asked to be traded from Toronto. I remember him purposely underperforming to force them to trade him. As soon as he got to NJ he was balling again. . . And to be quite honest, when you go to a team with better players, it’s supposed to become easier to have success.
Vince Carter was arguably the face of the NBA in the early 2000s. I think between 2000 and 2005 he was the leading All Star vote getter for like 3 or 4 seasons. During Shaq/AI/Kobe/MJ/KG that is a big deal. Young fans don't know how big of a star he was.
No the hell he wasn’t knock it off. Revisionist historians make me sick! The reason Vince was voted to the all star game is also because he used to tell fans he had sick dunks for the all star game…..he was NEVER the face over Shaq let alone Kobe. The NBA HATED AI and he was still in more commercials and seen more places than VC ever was.
Vince was far from lazy he just got on other teams after Toronto and accepted his role. He was the leader in Toronto. Everywhere else he respect guys that were there before him so he came to contribute. Why would he step on Jason Kidd leadership, Dwight Howard's role as Franchise tag, or over Steve Nash on the Suns? Vince relied a lot on his skills and talents and stayed healthy. Yes he was a cool guy and people wanted him to be mean or more aggressive like Kobe but the game was too easy for him so Vince was chill. If anything people called T-Mac a lazier version of Kobe. T-Mac was a beast just not full work ethic like Kobe and the will to want to win by any means at all costs. Dwayne Wade definitely worked hard and was a leader in locker rooms and huddles. Miami was Wade's territory just like Philly was Iverson's arena. You can't go wrong keeping any of the 4 guys but y'all left out AI and Ray Allen or Pierce and skipped to Wade.
What Gil is saying makes complete sense looking back as a kid I remember Vince Carter in his prime he did seem so gifted but really wasn’t skilled he used his natural abilities if he got more skilled he would of been just unstoppable
@@ambientsounds5832 no, but MJ was a gambling addict and Kobe nearly went to jail for SA accusations in the early 2000s. Don’t act like they had squeaky clean images.
His knee hurt him with getting to the basket. He could still jump, but his lateral movement and other movements were not the same. Look at his early Toronto years and his NJ years and look at the difference in his ability to get to the rim. @@Augrills
@@calvinsimon09 oh he was definitely old and slow and only played 5 minutes in a game against Orlando. But like if I tried to dunk, my asshole would fall out. So he’s not in that bad of shape is all I mean
@calvinsimon09 VC is hands down (along with Mike) the most exciting player I’ve ever seen. It was the disastrous Jumper’s Knee surgery in 2003/04 that robbed him of his peak athleticism. From then on forward he lost almost 20% of his athleticism. And I noticed it immediately. What most people don’t understand is that 80% Vince was still more athletic than 99% of the league. So most thought he had recovered. But he could no longer summon his jaw-dropping athleticism on every play; and he had to choose when to show it.
@dolphsantana5432 Did I say that no. Wade is a legend I'm jus sayin in thier prime im taking t-mac & Vince over wade. Not career. F.y.i Karl Malone my opinion tried to get with Kobe(R.i.p) wife so 🖕him & he got an underage girl pregnant his ass should have been in prison like 30years ago
Orlando Magic Vince was 🔥 too. Magic didn't use him right in the playoffs and pressed on the gas with him and Howard as a 1 2 punch. They could've did some Shaq and Kobe damage but Howard and Vince wasn't angry enough. I think if they had Phil Jackson or Larry Brown they would've beat everyone in 2010 playoffs. Vince dropped 48 points that season and wasn't even a All Star and didn't average 20ppg.
Keep - Kobe (obviously) Bench - DWade (finals MVP, 8x All NBA, 3x all defense) Trade- TMac (7x All NBA, out of the 1st round never) Cut - Vince ( 2x all NBA and what Gil said... Vince admitted he didn't work hard in his interview with John Thompson, and admitted to eating McDonald's up til late in his career)
Gil is a hater. He tries to hide it, but he is a bitter dude. He effed off his own career. He acts like he was truly a great. He had a moment like a bunch of players do. His work ethic was not what he claims or it would translated to better OVERALL BEHAVIOR due the discipline. He is just a bitter c-level celeb that should be very happy social media sack-riders worship ANYONE who has done ANYTHING. He knows ..when he goes to sleep at night…he is not on the level of the men he has the audacity to chastise and call lazy.
@@AbdulNuriddin-dx1ie Nah. Your hero is the clown. And you know it. Calling Vince lazy in the public like that was clown behavior of a jealous man. I know you cannot relate because you come from the era of bozos and do not realize that Gil is a complete goofy…but it is true. Sorry.
I am from Toronto and when I first saw Vince I thought he would be the next Jordan. We thought he forced his way out of Toronto, because being the leader was too much for him.
Gil was right. Vince had the talent to be a MJ Kobe alpha to lead a team to a chip but didnt heighten all his skills to get to that level. True he wasnt a great defender but his offensive bag was huge! Very underrated passer who could play point guard at times or point forward. After the trade to Jersey then Orlando then Phoenix he became a role player who could still put up decent stats & highlights here & there but wasnt a superstar or all star anymore by 30 with no significant injury to blame for that.
He's absolutely 💯 right Vince was this naturally gifted player the league had every scene he had no Jordan assassin and Mamba mentality..which he could go back and do it all again ..he'd be the goat 🐐 today If he had only real heart
Because it's all four in their prime and Wade is the only one under 6'5 in the bunch. There's no bad pick in this. You going by status after retirement
Gil may have a point: Vince Carter played for over 20 years (about 21 to 24 years to be exact) and he doesn't have over 30k points 🤷. He's actually ranked #17 in all-time point leaders, when he should be - in my personal opinion - ranked higher than that considering how talented he was on the court 🤷.
I don't think y'all get it. Gil has tremendous love for Vince, as did I and many others around my age growing up. I was an immigrant kid who came to Toronto when he was 11 and to fit in I picked up basketball. Vince Carter and the Raptors were my LIFE and Vince was my God... The things I saw him do mesmerized me, I was glued to that box of a computer and T.V whenever he played. The joy, the pretend to be like him during the playground with the fadeaway and that dribbling package, The one handed palming the ball and putting it behind your back as you contemplate your move (lol my hands were too small for an overhead so i underhanded it lol) when he puts his head down a bit and drives forward, the one arm dunk on the pull up bar in the highschool gym and twirling around, the its OVA chant after doing a spicy layup. I think y'all don't get it. Vince Carter shaped my life and filled it with joy and happiness and all I ever wanted was to not be shunned whenever I said Vince was the best. When they were burning his jerseys, I yelled and fought and told them to fk off, when my friends celebrated him leaving, I cried alone in my room. Whenever he used to come to town, that child in me would re-energize and all those happy nostalgic moments of growing up would come flooding back. I would go and wear his jerseys and get heckled and disrespected and I wouldn't give a shit. When he gave the Raptors the business time and time again I was fucking proud, and when drunk fans would start shit with me I would stand my ground because no man carrying Carter with the number 15 on his back was gonna be soft. Even when the Raptors won in 2019 I wasn't happy because I lost love for the city that shunned my hero. So it hurt, it hurt more than you will ever know when he took a submissive role, when he wasn't averaging even double digits. It hurt to see my hero still trying to hang on. I hated seeing him sidelined, I hated seeing him just accept it. I yelled at my screen "FUCKING FIGHT VINCE, JUST ONE MORE TIME....PLEASE". I wanted him to be like every other apex predator before him, I wanted him to go out ripping throats out. So all in all I will forever love Vince but it fucking hurts that he didn't have our back like we did his.... I just wanted to see Half man - half amazing just burn the whole league down one more god damn time....
Toronto never did Vince dirty, Vince did Toronto dirty do your research I live in Toronto. He started sulking and wasn't playing in games, I think he even demanded a trade if im not mistaken.
im from toronto and grew up watching the raps, Vince was rightfully hated in Toronto, he barely played, claimed injuries, and even when he did play you could just tell he didn't want to #REALFANSKNOW@@jstryct5120
I think it was mental with Vince. Honestly he was the 2nd coming of MJ. 6'6" - 6'7" shooting guard from North Carolina, dunking on everything while repping tarheel blue. Then immediately coming in and tearing up the sport center highlights every night. Game winners. Dunks. Matching and even outplaying AI and Kobe some nights. Then his even taller cousin Tracy "Pippen"... Toronto was set up for a Bulls type of run. But then you started to see the cracks in the armor. When Vince chose to go the grad ceremony and then missed the game winner vs Philly. The "whinning" face and the nagging injuries that maybe could have been avoided by more regimented training habits. We'll never know for sure... I never thought I'd see anyone more physically gifted than MJ... then Vince came along. If Penny never got injured he would have been on the list. If Grant Hill didn't get that infection from playing on a broken or messed up ankle, he might be on the list. There are some crazy athletes that have come and gone that had freakish ability but ugly jumpers or could not dribble at a high level. Richard Dumas? Super athlete... but I don't recall any numbers ever coming from him. Stacy Augmon. I was watching a game and I swear he caught a lob at the top of the backboard... not on the list.
Vince was not on the same level as MJ athletically. He may have had the same hops, but he lacked the first step and quickness to penetrate consistently like MJ or Wade. Vince's game was the star version of Jason Richardson. Both could shoot threes well and dunk, but Vince was a better mid range shooter could get hot more consistently.
I went to high school with VC and being called lazy is blasphemous! He didn't have the killer instinct because he had a different mindset. As talented as Gil is his immaturity cost him alot more money than he made! He should of been all world Stan!
Vince wasn't "lazy" in a typical sense- out of shape, missing practice etc- he was "lazy" in the sense that he coasted for most of his career, didn't maximize his out of his world talent but just got by on it rather than working hard. He probably did it because he didn't want the burden of responsibility that comes with winning at that level. Maybe he just marched to the beat of his own drum.
Gil is 100% correct about Vince. All the talent in the world, and if he only just had a little more ambition and drive, he could have been a multi champion and multi MVP. Still had one of the best careers in NBA history and the undisputed GOAT of dunking.
@@Angelabarbosadominguez-it4fh Yeah played 22 seasons with only about 5 of those seasons being a first team All NBA level player. With his raw talent and physical abilities, he could have been in the GOAT conversation as well as the MVP conversation every single year. But instead he ended up being a human highlight real for like 5 to 6 years and ended his career with 0 championships, 0 scoring titles, 0 MVP’s, 0 Finals MVP’s, 0 finals appearances. For any other great player that’s fine. But for him and his talent level, could have achieved more.
I’m all about winning… You start Kobe, you bench D Wade, you trade TMac and you cut Vince. We not basing this on who you like or who has potential. We basing it off of who do you win with. TMac nor Vince were winners. Respectfully. They not getting you to a finals or even a deep playoff run. We’ve seen DWade win a Finals MVP. We’ve seen Kobe win two of them. The answer is pretty obvious.
@@VengeanceSinX Please stop. Shaq with Wade was down 0-2 when the Mavs was whooping them. Wade put on a Herculean performance and got Shaq his 4th ring. That was not prime Shaq Wade was playing with. Shaq while still a top 15 player was not who he was with the Lakers. Kobe won 2 without the Diesel. The Greats get it done. TMac played with his cousin Vince who was in his prime and they never even got out the 1st round.
@@wc6081 hahaha clearly showed how dumb you are. VC was not 2011 Dallas Team. You dont even know which games im talking about, clearly a fucking nephew.
There was never a single second a season where Vince was the best ion the league, and Vince was my guy back then. Even 2000, that was Shaq in the most dominant version of anybody we ever saw. McCants be saying some real fried stuff at times.
I completely AGREE with Gil. Growing up in Toronto and watching Vince. There was a point in time where I and I’m sure many others as fans felt like he didn’t really care about the game of Basketball and didn’t really gave 100%. There is no way he shouldn’t be recognized as top 3 of all time.
@@Dhomer0716 Toronto never had anywhere near the same roster as the lakers skill wise. Even when they had big name stars it was the same as nets issue. They acquired big names but they were way older and not as dynamic anymore. Plus they really allowed Tracy to leave too soon so unlike kobe he didn’t have a offensive counter off the hall anymore to draw defenses away and him to score at the same clip as kobe.
@@ianrussellallcaps I mentioned management to illustrate that both Elite players (Kobe and Vince) didn’t have the best roster to compete for a chip (i.e 2004 Raptors and 2006 Lakers) the point I’m making is, for the talent Vince had there is no reason why he shouldn’t be in the GOAT conversation. That’s why Gil is calling him lazy because instead of being the Lamborghini he is he settled for being a Honda civic with 300k miles. In simple terms: look at his performances every time he played against Toronto. Regular season and Playoffs. He tortured us. If he played like that every night….🤦🏿♂️
Dwade and kobe were all nba defensive players and could give u the business offensively. Tmac CARRIED THE MAGIC and was a underrated defender. Vince didn't showcase that extra gear 2 b all time great
Vince was by far the most talented of all 4, but i gotta agree with gil compared to dwade, kobe, and tmac you could say he didn't put in the work like the other 3. VC had chances to get a ring with several teams.
I’m feelin Gil on this one. Check it out… With the ELITE ability he had, I believe and I’m sure that Gil would agree to this, With the ELITE natural ability he had, Had the LEGENDARY work ethic that Kobe & Gil had, Had the KILLER, wanna rip the heart out of his opponent NIGHT IN AND NIGHT OUT like Michael Jordan, He would’ve led his teams to MULTIPLE championships!!! I believe in my heart that if he had that RUTHLESS demeanor, I could see him doing way better than he did.
![[ ออกกอง ] วัยหนุ่ม 2544 โลกหลังลูกกรง..ทัวร์กองถ่ายหนังใน "คุกของจริง" | JUSTดูIT.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vB--aOkZCpw/mqdefault.jpg)
The Wade disrespect is actually ridiculous
Yup I’m angry
Prime Minister Wade is second to only Kobe. He gave you 30 and locked up the best player on the other side. Mac ain’t play a lickkkkkk of Defense
Because Wade is second only to Kobe, if you pick Kobe to start, you have to trade Wade. He would be wasted coming off the bench, but it doesn't make sense to have him and Kobe on the same team if they are both prime. B
@@threethirtynine1514Brandon Roy for two seasons was on Kobe’s coat tails
@@popeye697 did you not watch the Olympics??!? Wade thrived behind Kobe!!! Come on now. I can’t believe you really said that
Lazy or not, Vince definitely underachieved with all the gifts. He was great entertainment for the fans, but not feared enough by opponents, there is a reason
It's what people accuse LeBron of being, a passive all generation talent
@@mharp6166 Which is not fair with Lebron. Greater abilities and different situation and Lebron filled the responsibilities.
The redeem generated by 2011, the 2012 win, with the disadvantage too, versus those Celtics, the perfect performances in the two 2012 and 2013 Finals (getting it done confidently, like only Tim Duncan could do) and the 2016 comeback seal it.
An output and an achieving not even comparable with specifically VC's output as well.
Idk what you talking about I saw Vince carter battle against my sixers in the playoffs
Vince wasn't lazy. You don't play 20 plus years and be lazy. You don't go from a dunker with a pretty good jump shot to actually in his time the guy with the most range in the league. Point blank. When Vince Carter was playing with the New Jersey that's he had the most range in the NBA. You don't go from a dunker to that without hard work. I'll give the big reason why Vince didn't realize his potential where he was drafted. People don't realize how big of an impact that has on your career. No disrespected Kobe because Kobe was a better play than Vince, but do you think his career is the same if he actually ended up on Charlotte? Do you think he's a 20-year Charlotte hornet player with five rings? Do you think if he doesn't have Jerry West and Phil Jackson and Shaq, Nick van exel, Eddie Jones around at the beginning of his career didn't help MASSIVELY? Compare that to the Toronto franchise that Vince was playing with washed Hakeem.. Washed up muggsy bogues. Revolving door of mediocre coaches. Honestly, I think what Vince's mindset and skills the Lakers probably win more than three championships because he wouldn't have been so thirsty to be the top dog over shaq. And in the early 2000s Vince and Kobe were around the same except Vince had a better jump shot. Kobe was better defensively
No one is disagreeing that he could have had a more impactful career...but lazy is a wild accusation.
Gil is simply saying that with Vince’s ability he should have been in the conversations with Kobe, LeBron, and Jordan but he lacked that killer instinct.
Gil eventually explained himself very well. I like the caveat he also added that maybe he just put Vince to high on pedestal.
The world saw this when he lost to the Knicks in the playoffs with Toronto and was never the same.
Talentwise, Vince was from anotber planet, but wasn't the animal you needed to be "like Mike" or Kobe.
He's one to talk.....all the dudes mentioned are icons....none of the dudes on this show were champions...their opinion doesn't matter.
It’s often overlooked, but Vince’s peak performance in 2000-2001 can be attributed to the influence of veterans like Charles Oakley, Antonio Davis, Kevin Willis, Dell Curry, and Mugsy Bogues. These experienced players set high standards and held Vince accountable.
The dynamic noticeably changed when Charles Oakley, a key figure in maintaining discipline and professionalism, left the Raptors. This shift marked a turning point in Vince’s career, as he no longer had the same level of veteran guidance and accountability. He was surrounded by players inferior to him and they didn’t have the reps and toughness that would check Vince.
I’m from Toronto and nobody can deny that we lost the grit and toughness once Oakley wasn’t brought back.
Vince needed dogs on the team to get the most out of him.
Damn I never really heard this but it makes a lot of sense…He was better than Kobe and MJ when he came into the league and it just didn’t last
I think if Carter had better pieces around him....he wouldve felt a little more confident intotaking the craft seriously
vince didnt have skill or coordination of a kobe, i rep dot to...thats is wade was more effective as well
This is an amazing point. People forget that one of the reasons Oak left was due to Vince’s mother being overprotective of Vince.
@@gwensalador4325you have to be innately motivated to be truly great. That’s the only thing you control and not the people around you…
I never figured why Vince didn't take over the league. Gil has a point.
You honestly couldn't figure that out? You never compared his definition-less body to Kobe or Wade?
He did took over but very short period.
I’m from Toronto and saw him play since he joined the league, and Arenas is 1000% correct. Vince was athletically gifted and didn’t have the commitment and mentality to go to the next level.
Once he mentioned the Hancock statement it clicked for me. I definitely agree with him
And unlike VC Gilbert, flaws-wise, doesn't deserve to be called stupid because he was also smart and focused enough to accomplish what he did and could. It's not just work that made Gil very good in the late 2000s.
He blew it at certain points and especially late in one year.
Vince was lazy and didn't have what it takes and took for his advantageous point, it was always a foundational problem, Gil can't be called stupid instead because of some bad decisions or Playoffs failures with the Wizards team. If he was stupid or a total nut, he wouldn't have got past his bench days with the Warriors early in the 2000s (while VC was having a terrible falling out, if not quit job, with his original franchise, the Raptors in Toronto).
8:16 this is probably one of Gil’s greatest dissection of a player I’ve heard and it really open my eyes and mind. This is where Gil is at his absolute best
What hating. Black people are their own worst enemies
This applies to both Hill but that was more needed time away for injury and VC. Just 100% applies to VC.
No reason other than self drive VC isnt mentioned in same breath as Kobe Wade and MJ.
so concise, so precise, so accurate.
"Everything he needed to be great, he didn't do. He used it to stay in the league longer." Gilbert Arenas on Vince Carter.
A really young Wade led that 06 Heat team to a championship and was Finals MVP… there’s NO WAY I’m cutting him. I’m calling it like Gil is on this one
That's right, led. Thank god that Shaq and Mourning played and were there versus the Mavs lineup, otherwise...
It's cool though, leading, and to a title, is notches beyond what a 2000s Raptors can get with Carter instead of Wade and what VC could ever do.
@@dusk6159 uk D wade avg 28ppg 6 rpg n apg wit 2 steals n a block Shaq avg 18 ppg 9 rpg n 1.5 blks mourning put up 4 points games ppl need to stop acting like D Wade never did anything in his career smh of course he needed his big men to win its still a team sport but he was by far the best player on that team even Shaq knew that
@@dolphsantana5432 Mourning in the Finals was mentioned for his blocks and energy though. And Shaq for what he caused on the Mavs defense
@@dusk6159 I rather u say gp did something than mourning
She a wade hater she admitted I wouldn’t take her opinion seriously lol wade better then Vince and Tmac for sure
The fact that someone on a basketball show said 2000 Vince Carter was the best in the league at the same time 34 for the Lakers was dominating is pretty insane.
AI was dominant at the time too.
Golden era of Wing stars...AI, Tmac, VC, Allen, Kobe, Pierce...
AI and kobe was guards @@VengeanceSinX
@@Fatta007 I said wings = SG/SFs
NIGGA wings have been so much better since the 2010s@@VengeanceSinX
How DWade isn’t on everybody’s bench on this list is wild. Best two way player after Kobe on this list. He did it on both ends of the court.
Yeah..they can't be serious.
If its absolute prime, Tmac might be my go to since he could actually play with Kobe when the games on the line and not have a ton of overlap. DWade is the 2nd best player on this list though, they disrespect him bad on this podcast regularly.
He slick overrated.
Nothing against wade he is great but he is my least favorite player in the list
@@AlejandroCruz-ih9bc I hear you but there’s a difference between being your least favorite and the most accomplished. Wade is one of the best 2 way players ever
Vince Carter said himself he wished he took the game seriously early in his career. He turned around and became the consummate professional later in his career but that was well after he had his opportunity to be the best player.
If Vince maximized his talent like a Kobe, Lebron or others it would’ve been a wrap. He had every tool in his bag. He was a complete scorer and almost no flaws in his game.
And more importantly he was FEARED
Only flaw he had was above the shoulders.
I hate McCants arguing he got messed up when he got traded. He begged to be traded out of TOR and he clearly quit on them. You quit one place you quit others. TOR messed up but they traded him for the corpse of Mourning after his liver problems and a few meaningless picks. They just wanted to get rid of him.
@@capitanawesome44 worst thing was they waived mourning only for him to revive and win a chip with Dwade and Shaq 😂 those onions baby onions raptors really wasted my teens
@@ReeferalVINCE HAD NO DEFENSE,
STOP IT
@@westside8514 define no defence… cause he wasn’t getting isolated for matchup hunting. He was never that bad.
I usually don’t agree with Gil but Kobe said the same thing about VC. He could have be Jordan level if he practiced more
Nooo
he said that about shaq too
Kobe's words ain't gospel.
Kobe thought that about a majority of All Stars. He was notorious for showing and saying this. He told AI that. Check AI's All The Smoke Interview
Kobe outworked everyone in the league. He literally thought every player on the planet besides him and MJ were lazy.
Jordan once said vince would hsve been better than kobe , he just didn't have the motivation to be the best like kobe did. Garnett once said if vince played in the regular season the way he did in the Olympics ( angry and pissed off) he would have been the top dude in the league. As far as skill and talent vince was unreal. He was shooting 35 footers long before kobe and tmac were. He shot 41% from 3 on 6 attempts per game in 2001 . Back than unless you were ray ray or Reggie that was unheard of. Vince had one of the DEEPEST offensive bags you've ever seen. Add the trick shot layups , jaw dropping dunks, unreal fade aways . Had a BEAUTIFUL jumper. He was my favorite player forever. His advanced metrics from his 2001 season are among the best league if you look at each of his individual PER statistics
He my favorite on 2k
Some people forget this little fact. Vince Carter was a leading scorer for a gold medal winning Olympic team. The players who have done that are some legendary names.
Vince never lived up to his full potential is what Gil is trying to say and I agree with him. 7 footers couldnt do nothin with vince if he came down the lane, dud was unstoppable. He really shouldve been in the conversation as greatest of all time.
So do you and Gil agree that Gil suck and didn't live up to nothing
@@MikeWho-p4gGil avg 29 before more than Vince ever did and u this is why Gil is triggered and mad that Vince didn’t live up
Vince is my favorite player but when Kobe peaked it was a wrap for all them niggas 🤣🤣
@@MikeWho-p4g Gil overachieved. He wasn't expected to do anything lol
@@Sam-oo6wy Those 3pt stats are because he played for so long. Ray Allen played 17 seasons and has like 1000 more threes than VC despite VC playing 22 seasons so if VC had played the same number of seasons as Ray Allen he wouldn't be anywhere on that list. VC is 9th all time but everyone else on the list (top 50) has played less games than him. Literally everyone. Not a single player on that list has played more games than VC so it's clearly longevity stats.
VC was incredibly clutch. Don’t forget that y’all. He hit a lot of game winners and tough buckets when teams needed em
#3 all time game winners
They don't kno fam they dont kno
They are speaking about his overall career. He was talented enough to be the best.
He’s borderline HOF! His longevity puts him in
Yes this is true but he made incredible shots because he didn’t do the hard work to get easier shots. I was ecstatic when the Nets got him but after watching him face Wade I determined he was more talented but not as hard working as Wade. I challenge people to go watch that NJ vs. Mia series.
But not as much as he should have been. He should have been one of the greats.
Gil had me lost for a minute when he said my guy was lazy, but he made it make sense. Vince was certainly no scrub, yet he could've been that dude of the NBA for real. Good take, Gil. On another note, some players just want to do what they love without all of the pressure of being "the man". Vince may have just simply enjoyed his role and his income without all of the added. This is one of my favorite podcasts, by the way. Please keep up the amazing work.
The Disrespect of #3 is mind boggling. The third greatest SG in NBA history 🤦🏾♂️
People are entitled to their opinions, but they shouldn’t be allowed to negate the facts on such platforms. I’ve always loved & respected Gil, because he’s always been a realist, and respects the game.
A.I is better than Wade
defending your bf 😂😂🤦🏿♂️ypu and wade zesty
Not for nothing but wade is highly overrated. Had a what 3-5 year long prime?
@@luckyzcornerterrible take
@@vincaso only twice was he even considered one of the two best guards in the league
Gil is usually out of pocket but he’s right on this. Wade and T Mac bodies gave out, Kobe reached his full potential but with Vince you always felt like there was something more and it never happened
Someone with Vince's talent should've made all-NBA 1st team once, but he never did. At least T-mac made it twice before his back injuries happened.
That makes sense because you can say a lazy Vince Carter was way better than Gil
I used to love to watch Gilbert arenas play especially in the agent zero days, but literally EVERYONE on that list is a better baller and has a better career
@@labaronfreeman1140I wouldn’t say way better that is a reach . Gil before the knee injury was a better player than Vince
@@labaronfreeman1140Agent Zero was the truth
Gil has some valid points about VC's career. Think about this way: If you saw prime VC, especially after his 2nd season and Olympic year, and then I told you that:
i. He would NEVER average more than 27 ppg for the rest of his career after his 3rd year
ii. NEVER lead the NBA in scoring
iii. NEVER win MVP
iv. NEVER made the NBA Finals
v. NEVER win a NBA title
vi. NOT be in the Top 75 Team
You would accuse me of smoking some serious shit and call me crazy! The adage "Hard work always trumps talent when talent doesn't work hard..." applies to VC!
he averaged 27 in 05 is Jersey
@@BGDoesit you don't know how to read...🙄🙄🙄🙄
Nets went to finals in back to back seasons with him...
@@djShuttlenyc No, he wasn't on that team...🙄🙄🙄🙄
You can also add: Never suffered a serious injury that might've prevented him from achieving some of the milestones on the list.
VC has always been my favorite player, to this day I don't think I've seen a player with a bigger bag of moves and ways to score the ball, he had it all. Still, I believe he could have been far greater if he deferred less especially in orlando
only one with a bigger bag is Melo
Yea in Orlando he should had tried to be more dominant! Couldn’t stand how he played there! Also I think the Coach didn’t help cuz the style they wanted to play but still get what you’re saying .
@@GStampedeIIIwhat? No lol
His cousin had a better bag! T-Mac
@@25McDermottnah, it was about even. Vince one of the best shooters in league history. T-Mac was a better defender though.
For conversations like these, I wish we could handpick Gil's castmates cause he be coming with stats for his arguments that he obviously has analyzed and it's like the other two didn't know the question was coming.
Mccants and Lexie know the popular radio singles, but Gil be knowing the unreleased, hidden bonus tracks from the album.
He's not really saying anything
Ong bro they both cut dwade like tf
You can pad Stats. Real ballers go by eye test.
Vince was phenomenal from around 2000-2008. Injuries, new roles, being too unselfish and nice prevented him from staying near Kobe's level. But you can't criticize a mans work ethic when you never witnessed it. Being nice on the court is not the same a being lazy when practicing! Doesn't mean he shouldn't have been even better and for longer. At times he was nearly the best player in the league where he'd average over 35 for almost a month (which was insane back then). There came a point when he stopped attacking the basket (early 2008 after a very bad ankle injury) and his explosive agressive game never really returned. Very sad, because he was the most spectacular player (and most popular) for a few years.
* 2005
Still tho. He could have the time to become an elite shooter. Would have been ideal to do that after the injury. On or Off ball shooter. Or even up his post up game.
Vince just never had that alpha dog in him.
You definitely can as an NBA player....they know
He played 22 years!! I’d say respect that man. That’s legendary half man/half amazing!
That’s not the point though, he sustained himself to play long , not to be as great as he can be. Playing 22 years is cool , but playing 15 years and being the greatest at your position is two different things. Same argument with Shaq
22 seasons of never being the guy to drag/carry a team to the finals. (or make a deep run as an underdog) Nor adapt his game to stay a relevant starter late in his career.
I loved watching VC show live in Toronto, but I would have rather have had a *healthy* TMac leading the Raptors for his prime. He had that that drive to add to his bag, because he was always treated as "the lesser cousin" in high school & later Toronto. And, that was after Toronto showed they had low expectations of him on draft night!
It was only MJ's pouting (&threats) that stopped his draft night trade (1:1) for Pippen. *AFTER* the Raptors had already submitted their side of the paperwork to the league office, and directly notified TMac & his agent of the post-selection trade being done. [From TMac's own mouth when he was in his sweaters co-hosting with the Redhead at ESPN]
Vince was never the guy, didn’t start improving until he was tapering off his athleticism. I dislike Wade as a person but his prime was head and shoulders above Vince.
This is all futility. And Gilbert is right on VC, who didn't achieve what he was supposed to.
@@sganet_ Agreed on everything.
Prime D Wade was a terror! That man had Jordan like confidence and killer instinct.
Man people delusional 😂😂
A lot of people on here don’t remember 😮 I’m shocked. The highlights are cool but VC can’t touch Wade
@@Twysthoryeah for sure wade out performs Vince in any category.. what are people gonna say? Vince beats him at dunking? Lol wade was a dunker too and Vince was slightly or just better than wade in that category
People sleep. Prime Wade could do everything lebron can do and people shit on Wade
@@String225facts and in his peak he was better
Vince went to his graduation when he was in ECF with sixers . People didn’t like that he prioritized walking graduation
Vince attended his graduation on the day he had a game 7 against AI and the sixers. That tells you the level of commitment he had to the game. I'm not saying he's not committed because he certainly was but he wasn't Kobe/MJ borderline insane committed.
At the 3nd of the day, basketball is just a job/career lol
@DV-ou1yu so is the nba that pays 100 fold 😂😂😂
thats about commitment....not laziness. same could be said with AI and practice or AI and partying. and even if he had all that commitment, he still wasn't mike/kobe or any of those dudes (nobody was). gill talks about how committed he was to his craft, gill aint make that many all nba selections let alone mvps.
-borderline- insane
Sometimes I have to agree with Gil and this is one of those times. Vince was my favorite player to take over from MJ and he just went down hill. If he had Kobe mentality, he would’ve dominated. He was naturally more gifted.
the kobe mentality can only take you so far you need to have actual all nba teammates to win a ring. Specifically big men and vince didnt have that. kobe had shaq/pau, Pierce and allen had KG at the same time, Manu had Timmy. The raptors and nets failed to surround VC with a true contending supporting cast
@@paolo7486 we r not talking wining, we r talking about his career. He never took it to another level, even though he was talented enough to do it.
@@kingsworld2220 He averaged 20ppg+ for 10 straight years. he was short on accolades not stats
I was a grad student in Toronto in the 90's and became a Raptors fan after Mario Tremblay destroyed my Canadiens and Patrick Roy left for the Avalanche. Vince became my favourite player. I watched this man live in his prime. There is a reason Shaq in his prime called him half-man, half-amazing. He was the next MJ, but didn't have that killer attitude. If Vince had half of Kobe's attitude, or half of MJ's "I took that personally" - he might be top 5 in the GOAT debate.
Definitely goat of dunkers
Absolutly. As far as raw talent goes, he was better then kobe. There was a point in time where people would actually compare them. Kobe's work ethic was really the x factor.
Every players different,each has their own mindset.So glad he wasn't an &&&hole like Kobe and MJ and a ball hog. MJ was a bully,plain and simple,he gave Steve Kerr a black eye because he dared to stand-up to MJ. He told team-mates not to pass the ball to Bill Cartwright ( he said he had bad hands ) Bill threatened to break both MJ's legs. Kobe should've had that killer instinct instead of going thru a rape trial,that incident smeared his legacy.
People forget they used to compare Vince to Jordan before Kobe. He had the hops, he had the charisma and he could shoot
He could shoot threes and dunk. He didn't have handles. He didn't have a mid-range game. He wasn't as dominant in the post as his body and athleticism suggested he should be. What was his go-to move? Stackhouse was compared to Jordan before him, and I think Stack was a better overall player than Vince. Not to say Vince wasn't very good, but he definitely didn't end up being as good as when I saw him at Mainland going into UNC...
They compared both Vince & Kobe to Jordan. Around 2000-2001 Jordan himself shut that shit down with Vince but welcomed the Kobe comparisons because he was a two way player. That is a verifiable fact.
Im glad Gill speaks on work ethic. Its important. As a wizards fan i wish he wouod have worked on defense at least a quarter of the time
How hard is it to understand Gil feels like Vince just didn't live up to his potential. He was a beast that should have been running the league but never met that due to his work ethic.
Gil has a point. Vince showed the killer mentality only when he was angry or playing against the Miami heat. Dunked over the guy in the Olympic player cuz he was pissed his agent stole millions from him. Dunked on Alonzo mourning cuz Alonzo kept fouling him going to the basket. I say that to say this. I would take Vince talent but wouldn’t put him over T Mac, Kobe, or Wade if I had to pick the best mentality.
Even with vince playing angry and aggressive against the heat, wade still eliminated him two years in a row in 05 and 06. Vince should be the one to get cut
Team game. The others on the list are all 6'6+ with 3 levels of scoring. Wade was amazing and a monster athlete, leader and scorer but definitely had the least natural talent when it came to ball. (Heat fan)
He does not have a point. Vince, at one point was in the top three for all game-winning shots of active players up until like close to the 2010s. Go look up his game winners and tell me he didn't have a killer mentality. Not many players during his generation shot and made more and percentage-wise. He was near the top of the list in crunch time
Vince didn't have the mentality and will to win like a Kobe or Wade...people really just pushing back on the "lazy" accusation.
@@JonReynoldsESQ or the organization..let's be honest. I don't think Kobe ends up a 20 year hornet with 5 rings. I don't think if wade was on the bobcats his career is the same
To cut or trade Wade who has more rings than the 2 they keeping is insane
People forget Vince said, while still playing in Toronto, that he may never dunk again. He wanted out. He wasnt mentally strong - that is my opinion. I also agree with Gil's assessment.
Looking back Vince and Tmac were supposed to be them ones, Vince as what 6’7 with super bounce and Tmac was 6’9 with super bounce…shit was insane
Actually Vince was more like 6’5
@@jaydell4039 word? He wasn’t taller than bean?
@@Chromedesu444 they got him at 6 6 like kobe
@@Chromedesu444Kobe himself said he was closer to 6'4 than 6'6
@@kenochill2190Those are "NBA heights" lol...
I'm with Gil... Vince peeked early to have been in the league for so long. He retired in what 2021 but last averaged 20 in 2007... I'm sure the other 3 averaged 20+ for their career
Rashad was really saying Vince was the best player in the league in 2000/2001 timeframe like Shaq just disappeared. Not to mention Kobe started to hit his stride in 01 and A.I. won MVP
He was. For that one year, he electrified the league so much, they started to fear playing against him.
DWade led his team to a championship. When his back was against the wall he put an all time great performance to send an all time talent in Dirk packing. TMac has never made it out the first round in the playoffs and even if you omit his bad teams its literally his fault. Im so tired of TMac getting overrated because he was a great offensive player and has some really dope highlights. But go look at Tmacs history man. Hes who people think James Harden is in the playoffs. Prime harden being stuck in the first round doesnt even sound right. Tayshaun prince was a rookie and shut mac out of a playoff series after Mac was cooking the pistons. Its really unacceptable to put him over Wade at his peak.
Wade had shaq before that he was losing after shaq left he started losing again. then he had lebron and bosh then started losing again after they left.
And that was just the 2nd year in his career his rookie year he made it to the playoffs by himself..when he hit the step back on baron davis ..and guess what lebron nor Carmelo made it to the playoffs and they was the bigger names as rookies and he ain’t have washed up shaq yet …and I remember all this like yesterday
@@gonchanlihe wasn’t losing what are us talking about 😂😂😂😂😂 wade first season he with to the playoffs and lebron and melo went home they first season second season ..washed up shaq came and they won in his second season …so what losses was he taking again or u just yapping ya jibbz
🎯
@@gonchanli lol Tmac had yao n grant couldnt make it out the first round and Vince had with j kidd, Dirk hell even his own family in Tmac never made it to the finals so what you saying other than your a casual go back and look at 09 wade was on a mission by himself y'all try to disrespect him n his greatness bc of his choices as parent seems like bc what can you say about his game other than he wasn't a great shooter
D wade arguable beat the mavericks by him self tf
He had Shaq and some allstars
@@Dubiematic Shaq was past his prime he had vets that really it
I loved vinces 3 point game he had his last 6 seasons he was clutch
It's more accurate to say that Vince wasn't as competitive and serious as MJ and Kobe. Vince clearly had put in work to maintain his body in order to play as long as he did. He was still able to posterize anybody at anytime but he did expand his game. He also got along better with teammates than Michael and Kobe and he was OK with stepping back despite the athleticism, skill, and talent. Gilbert himself has said that he knew not to piss him off or motivate him and we all know his ass will say and or do anything crazy at any given moment.
Dats true Gil, Vince didn’t take his skill to the next level. Whereas he had potential to be a top 25 player of all time, but he settled for the longevity route.
Agreed I went the see vinces career highlights and man he had handles, athleticism, a shoot and was clutch.
@@cosmos9627even tho it sounds harsh calling him lazy but kobe himself said Vince should’ve been getting comparisons to mj himself if he had better work ethic… now he isn’t even a top 75..
Vince was a movement ....and game changer man look
Don’t Wade got the most blocks ever as a guard?
Yes his entire nba career and some of his college career he had a bad knee. Even with a bad knee he’s the third best shooting guard of all time.
He does, 57 more blocks than second place (MJ). Jordan got slightly more blocks per game and T-Mac's BPG is about the same as Wade's but D-Wade played a lot more games than both of them.
Yup
Absolutely
We actually SAW FIRST HAND when Kobe started, and DWADE came off the bench. The world got TORCHED.
Wade lead the team in scoring although he came off the bench. And was GAME changing.
That was a different circumstance you can’t discount them having Bron, CP and several other HOFs against international comp which varies more compared to NBA where every team is good. Maybe they would have been better w/ Vince coming off. Vince had his share of highlights for team USA previously
And you have to take in accountability other teams are aiming for other stars, probably didn’t prep well for Dwyane Wadev
You talking about a stacked USA team😂😂
😂😂
“Killer mentality” talk is overstated. Was Kobe killing it, when the Lakers traded Shaq and before they acquired Gasol?
Yes. He was. He was a killer on a team of bums.
delusional Kobe fanboys overrate him bigtime. After Shaq he didn't make the playoffs and 2 first round exits. Became relevant because of Gasol, Bynum, Odom, the best front court during that time, the Lakers biggest advantage in the league during that team.
He led the league in scoring in back to back seasons, finished top 5 in mvp voting in back to back seasons, had over 10 50 point games in just 2 years, including an 81 and 2 60s. Had a 50 ball in the playoffs. Also made all defensive first team twice. Thats literally killing it
@@Eightohh4tosevenfive7dude just dont know ball. Dont even make sense to argue w ppl who are special ed.
@@Eightohh4tosevenfive7mans stay sucking lebron off in his comments too.
I totally agree. Vince playing 22 years and wasn’t even in top 10 scoring all time even though he was the best all around player. He could literally do everything on the court and his only title is “maybe” the best dunker.
I agree with Gil. I was born and raised in Toronto. I actually went to the Dr. Funk commercial that he did with peewee Kirkland and a whole bunch of other people in Scarborough Ontario. He was the reason why most of us watched Raptors basketball. and there were just nights that he just wouldn’t give you anything. I don’t know if he was hurt or whatever it was but it was like one day he was Superman and the next day he really was just Clark Kent.
u from toronto u should know he was injured 2002 onwards.
@@VengeanceSinX the point still stands, and just living in Toronto wouldn’t tell me everything, even if I virtually watched every game but I would assume that someone who played against him like Gil would know. Thanks
@@djdosado thats one of the major reason he became clark kent. you didnt know that even though youre from Toronto.
@@VengeanceSinX nice try. Try someone else your response was dealt with lol!
@@djdosado ok nephew lmao
Vince Carter is a Hall of Famer. I just read the title, don't know what idiotic statements will be made😂😂😂. I don't understand why people like hearing from Gil show he is the King of Cap
"demi god getting out dueled by a demi god" i felt that lol
I think start bench cut trade is actually very valid.
It makes you think more about the value of a player on another team/role vs just their performance in total. I think trade vs cut makes someone really have to think about who really has nba value
Was crazy is his she kept s saying was trade mean lol just that trade
Not really just make a better debate
@antant908 she had a blonde moment
@@antant908She just didn't understand why the trade part was needed coz it's usually only start, bench, and cut. She even stated @0:40 onwards that to her cut and trade are basically the same coz they essentially are both off the team and gil had to tell her that trading someone means he's still valuable rather than someone you cut because you think he's of no use to you.
Trade is stupid stop it
I never heard someone disrespect a guy by cutting him yet show him the utmost respect at the same time! I can definitely understand where Gil is coming from
I always say there are two kinds of people: those who are born with special skills and those who work super hard to catch up with them.
Take Vince, for example. He was a natural athlete, especially when it came to jumping out the gym/shooting mid-range/long range, etc. If he had also been super focused and driven, like Kobe Bryant, he could have been one of the best basketball players ever.
So, when Gilbert says he wants to mix Vince’s great basketball skills with a fierce attitude, he’s saying something a lot of fans and players have probably been thinking for years.
He's my favorite player of all time. I always felt that he had the ability/talent to be better than Kobe or at least right there in the conversation through his whole career. His skill level was insane, he could score at will, jump like crazy, could shoot the 3, was clutch etc. He showed in that 2005 run when he got traded to the Nets and took them to the playoffs, dude was unstoppable.
VC played 22 years(4 decades), 8 all star selections and the same amount of All nba selections as Julius Randle.
No question Carter had great potential, but he wasn't lazy. He may have lacked the obsessive attitude of other greats like Jordan or Bryant, but he wasn't lazy. Carter was amazing and fun to watch. Hard to watch the the dunk contest knowing how it was in the past. Also Carter wanted out of Toronto.
You don’t have to be a former NBA player to conclude that Vince Carter could’ve been a lot better if he had worked harder. Skills and abilities are perfected with practice and repetition. He apparently didn’t do as much as he could have, especially since his last All-Star appearance was in 2009, but he played about 12 more seasons after that.
Yea but a player like Gill can’t speak. His career ain’t even pan out. Vince a HOF fuck outta here
This is an incorrect statement. Vince got traded to a team with a Point God that ran the show. Mike Kobe Wade or Mac NEVER had that they ran the offense.
@@bliine What happened post-season wise then, when Vince was running the show for years? If he couldn't get numbers because of the luxury of having JKidd
@@dusk6159 he did his thing in Toronto in the playoffs so what he missed a buzzer to move on. Vince did his thing in Toronto in NJ it was the J Kidd show.
Vince asked to be traded from Toronto. I remember him purposely underperforming to force them to trade him. As soon as he got to NJ he was balling again. . . And to be quite honest, when you go to a team with better players, it’s supposed to become easier to have success.
Vince Carter was arguably the face of the NBA in the early 2000s. I think between 2000 and 2005 he was the leading All Star vote getter for like 3 or 4 seasons. During Shaq/AI/Kobe/MJ/KG that is a big deal. Young fans don't know how big of a star he was.
Facts I remember he even beat out Jordan in all star votes his last season with the Wizards
lol Vince was never the face of the NBA over Kobe and iverson? Truth be told you can say Tmac before Vince
Linsanity was the face at one point too. So what?
No the hell he wasn’t knock it off. Revisionist historians make me sick! The reason Vince was voted to the all star game is also because he used to tell fans he had sick dunks for the all star game…..he was NEVER the face over Shaq let alone Kobe. The NBA HATED AI and he was still in more commercials and seen more places than VC ever was.
There was no singular face of the NBA in the early 2000s it was done by committee.
Vince was far from lazy he just got on other teams after Toronto and accepted his role. He was the leader in Toronto. Everywhere else he respect guys that were there before him so he came to contribute. Why would he step on Jason Kidd leadership, Dwight Howard's role as Franchise tag, or over Steve Nash on the Suns? Vince relied a lot on his skills and talents and stayed healthy. Yes he was a cool guy and people wanted him to be mean or more aggressive like Kobe but the game was too easy for him so Vince was chill. If anything people called T-Mac a lazier version of Kobe. T-Mac was a beast just not full work ethic like Kobe and the will to want to win by any means at all costs. Dwayne Wade definitely worked hard and was a leader in locker rooms and huddles. Miami was Wade's territory just like Philly was Iverson's arena. You can't go wrong keeping any of the 4 guys but y'all left out AI and Ray Allen or Pierce and skipped to Wade.
The Dwade disrespect is wild by these clowns. Dwade behind Kobe is fine but Tmac and Vcarter? lol foh man
No wonder that those who did it were that dude Rashad McCants and the other guest, I imagine from the WNBA though or something
@@dusk6159it made me mad cuz they peer pressured Gil to change his answer
Picks was based on height advantage
Real talk like wade and Kobe not even suppose to be in a debate with Vince and tmac
@@StreetNews215 might as well pick bolbol because he must be the best player lol
What Gil is saying makes complete sense looking back as a kid I remember Vince Carter in his prime he did seem so gifted but really wasn’t skilled he used his natural abilities if he got more skilled he would of been just unstoppable
He was skilled. He just wasn’t a winner.
Nobody was more offensively skilled then TMac
I think of anyone to point out if a player is lazy or not, it 100% should be Gil. Dude had a similar work ethic to Kobe and MJ
did kobe or mj ever bring a gun to the locker room?
@@ambientsounds5832 fuck that gotta do with work ethic
@@ambientsounds5832 no, but MJ was a gambling addict and Kobe nearly went to jail for SA accusations in the early 2000s. Don’t act like they had squeaky clean images.
Gil had a notoriously high work ethic...but lazy is a wild accusation even from him.
The glazing crazy…. Kobe and MJ got stats/playoffs/carried teams… Gil 11-20 in playoffs and only made em 4 times🎉
Vince was smart he knew it was just a game .. If a game is all you have in life its a sad day ...
True, if Vince was anything more than an NBA athlete though
Gil.... real to real... everybody ain't guaranteed a happy ending... word.
Carter also had a lot of knee injuries as well. Like Wade, Vince had to deal with jumper’s knee. He had to adjust his game.
I saw him on his farewell season in Atlanta and dude was still dunking 2 or 3 times a game at 43. His knees couldn’t have been that bad.
His knee hurt him with getting to the basket. He could still jump, but his lateral movement and other movements were not the same. Look at his early Toronto years and his NJ years and look at the difference in his ability to get to the rim. @@Augrills
@@calvinsimon09 oh he was definitely old and slow and only played 5 minutes in a game against Orlando. But like if I tried to dunk, my asshole would fall out. So he’s not in that bad of shape is all I mean
@calvinsimon09 VC is hands down (along with Mike) the most exciting player I’ve ever seen. It was the disastrous Jumper’s Knee surgery in 2003/04 that robbed him of his peak athleticism. From then on forward he lost almost 20% of his athleticism. And I noticed it immediately. What most people don’t understand is that 80% Vince was still more athletic than 99% of the league. So most thought he had recovered. But he could no longer summon his jaw-dropping athleticism on every play; and he had to choose when to show it.
D Wade disrespect is crazy.
No it's not. Him letting his kid transition is crazy
@@devontaedemon Man, worry about your own damn life!
@@dreddmann6532 That doesn't matter, he's right, besides his own or our own lives.
If anything, that's Wade as a person and not as a player.
@@devontaedemon so because of the way he parents his whole NBA career is washed?
wonder how u feel about Carl Malone then smh
@dolphsantana5432 Did I say that no. Wade is a legend I'm jus sayin in thier prime im taking t-mac & Vince over wade. Not career. F.y.i Karl Malone my opinion tried to get with Kobe(R.i.p) wife so 🖕him & he got an underage girl pregnant his ass should have been in prison like 30years ago
Orlando Magic Vince was 🔥 too. Magic didn't use him right in the playoffs and pressed on the gas with him and Howard as a 1 2 punch. They could've did some Shaq and Kobe damage but Howard and Vince wasn't angry enough. I think if they had Phil Jackson or Larry Brown they would've beat everyone in 2010 playoffs. Vince dropped 48 points that season and wasn't even a All Star and didn't average 20ppg.
Keep - Kobe (obviously)
Bench - DWade (finals MVP, 8x All NBA, 3x all defense)
Trade- TMac (7x All NBA, out of the 1st round never)
Cut - Vince ( 2x all NBA and what Gil said... Vince admitted he didn't work hard in his interview with John Thompson, and admitted to eating McDonald's up til late in his career)
th-cam.com/video/DCSvUjaJaDw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7V2BUnAN7obX1Yvo
At the 5 min 54 mark of ☝🏾... in his own words...
SANE.
T-Mac has the most trade value.
Wade can be the "Manu" 6th man (score or defend).
Vince can go reminisce about winning a dunk contest.
Imagine cutting a 2009 Dwade for 2009 TMac or Vince 😂😂😂
2000-2007 vince was an animal shit and tmac.
Gil is a hater. He tries to hide it, but he is a bitter dude. He effed off his own career. He acts like he was truly a great. He had a moment like a bunch of players do. His work ethic was not what he claims or it would translated to better OVERALL BEHAVIOR due the discipline. He is just a bitter c-level celeb that should be very happy social media sack-riders worship ANYONE who has done ANYTHING. He knows ..when he goes to sleep at night…he is not on the level of the men he has the audacity to chastise and call lazy.
@marcelmarshall4240 you sound like the hater forreal
@@AbdulNuriddin-dx1ielol fr though
@@AbdulNuriddin-dx1ie Nah. Your hero is the clown. And you know it. Calling Vince lazy in the public like that was clown behavior of a jealous man. I know you cannot relate because you come from the era of bozos and do not realize that Gil is a complete goofy…but it is true. Sorry.
I am from Toronto and when I first saw Vince I thought he would be the next Jordan. We thought he forced his way out of Toronto, because being the leader was too much for him.
Gil was right. Vince had the talent to be a MJ Kobe alpha to lead a team to a chip but didnt heighten all his skills to get to that level. True he wasnt a great defender but his offensive bag was huge! Very underrated passer who could play point guard at times or point forward.
After the trade to Jersey then Orlando then Phoenix he became a role player who could still put up decent stats & highlights here & there but wasnt a superstar or all star anymore by 30 with no significant injury to blame for that.
He's absolutely 💯 right Vince was this naturally gifted player the league had every scene he had no Jordan assassin and Mamba mentality..which he could go back and do it all again ..he'd be the goat 🐐 today
If he had only real heart
Not cutting Vince shows everyone's basketball IQ
As a sixers fan I saw prime Vince against my team and I’m telling y’all he was just as good as Kobe
There saying he didn't keep that same impact or keep rising as scorer 😂 never taking away from his talent pay attention lol
It’s they’re Einstein …and you don’t even know what you are saying…clown
She cutting the 3rd best SG in history, get her off my screeen now, and McCants
Because it's all four in their prime and Wade is the only one under 6'5 in the bunch. There's no bad pick in this. You going by status after retirement
she's too young for this conversation.
@@iSpeakGodsWordsshe 30 she should know better
😭😭
Gil may have a point: Vince Carter played for over 20 years (about 21 to 24 years to be exact) and he doesn't have over 30k points 🤷. He's actually ranked #17 in all-time point leaders, when he should be - in my personal opinion - ranked higher than that considering how talented he was on the court 🤷.
I don't think y'all get it. Gil has tremendous love for Vince, as did I and many others around my age growing up. I was an immigrant kid who came to Toronto when he was 11 and to fit in I picked up basketball. Vince Carter and the Raptors were my LIFE and Vince was my God... The things I saw him do mesmerized me, I was glued to that box of a computer and T.V whenever he played. The joy, the pretend to be like him during the playground with the fadeaway and that dribbling package, The one handed palming the ball and putting it behind your back as you contemplate your move (lol my hands were too small for an overhead so i underhanded it lol) when he puts his head down a bit and drives forward, the one arm dunk on the pull up bar in the highschool gym and twirling around, the its OVA chant after doing a spicy layup. I think y'all don't get it. Vince Carter shaped my life and filled it with joy and happiness and all I ever wanted was to not be shunned whenever I said Vince was the best. When they were burning his jerseys, I yelled and fought and told them to fk off, when my friends celebrated him leaving, I cried alone in my room. Whenever he used to come to town, that child in me would re-energize and all those happy nostalgic moments of growing up would come flooding back. I would go and wear his jerseys and get heckled and disrespected and I wouldn't give a shit. When he gave the Raptors the business time and time again I was fucking proud, and when drunk fans would start shit with me I would stand my ground because no man carrying Carter with the number 15 on his back was gonna be soft. Even when the Raptors won in 2019 I wasn't happy because I lost love for the city that shunned my hero. So it hurt, it hurt more than you will ever know when he took a submissive role, when he wasn't averaging even double digits. It hurt to see my hero still trying to hang on. I hated seeing him sidelined, I hated seeing him just accept it. I yelled at my screen "FUCKING FIGHT VINCE, JUST ONE MORE TIME....PLEASE". I wanted him to be like every other apex predator before him, I wanted him to go out ripping throats out. So all in all I will forever love Vince but it fucking hurts that he didn't have our back like we did his.... I just wanted to see Half man - half amazing just burn the whole league down one more god damn time....
Toronto never did Vince dirty, Vince did Toronto dirty do your research I live in Toronto. He started sulking and wasn't playing in games, I think he even demanded a trade if im not mistaken.
Boy you hurt
im from toronto and grew up watching the raps, Vince was rightfully hated in Toronto, he barely played, claimed injuries, and even when he did play you could just tell he didn't want to #REALFANSKNOW@@jstryct5120
Too bad the nba didn’t have those 7 year rookie deals like now because VC and TMac might have a chip in Toronto.
Im With Rashad on this one. Vinsanity over D-Wade and Tmac has More Trade Value Definitely, Ring or no Ring, Strictly Skill Based
I think it was mental with Vince. Honestly he was the 2nd coming of MJ. 6'6" - 6'7" shooting guard from North Carolina, dunking on everything while repping tarheel blue. Then immediately coming in and tearing up the sport center highlights every night. Game winners. Dunks. Matching and even outplaying AI and Kobe some nights. Then his even taller cousin Tracy "Pippen"... Toronto was set up for a Bulls type of run. But then you started to see the cracks in the armor. When Vince chose to go the grad ceremony and then missed the game winner vs Philly. The "whinning" face and the nagging injuries that maybe could have been avoided by more regimented training habits. We'll never know for sure... I never thought I'd see anyone more physically gifted than MJ... then Vince came along. If Penny never got injured he would have been on the list. If Grant Hill didn't get that infection from playing on a broken or messed up ankle, he might be on the list. There are some crazy athletes that have come and gone that had freakish ability but ugly jumpers or could not dribble at a high level. Richard Dumas? Super athlete... but I don't recall any numbers ever coming from him. Stacy Augmon. I was watching a game and I swear he caught a lob at the top of the backboard... not on the list.
Vince was not on the same level as MJ athletically. He may have had the same hops, but he lacked the first step and quickness to penetrate consistently like MJ or Wade. Vince's game was the star version of Jason Richardson. Both could shoot threes well and dunk, but Vince was a better mid range shooter could get hot more consistently.
I went to high school with VC and being called lazy is blasphemous! He didn't have the killer instinct because he had a different mindset. As talented as Gil is his immaturity cost him alot more money than he made! He should of been all world Stan!
You went to Mainland 👍
I was in your class
Lazy AF!!!
Vince could of been goat
Vince wasn't "lazy" in a typical sense- out of shape, missing practice etc- he was "lazy" in the sense that he coasted for most of his career, didn't maximize his out of his world talent but just got by on it rather than working hard. He probably did it because he didn't want the burden of responsibility that comes with winning at that level. Maybe he just marched to the beat of his own drum.
Gil is 100% correct about Vince. All the talent in the world, and if he only just had a little more ambition and drive, he could have been a multi champion and multi MVP. Still had one of the best careers in NBA history and the undisputed GOAT of dunking.
he played 22 season🤦♂️
Lol vince carter never was out of shape and modified his game as his career progressed
@@Angelabarbosadominguez-it4fhit's like a Honda vs Bugatti. Yes one is built to last 50 years, but an engine can also go hard for that 50 years
@@Angelabarbosadominguez-it4fhwho gives af 22 seasons and majority were on the bench or mediocre… he was supposed to be the next MJ
@@Angelabarbosadominguez-it4fh Yeah played 22 seasons with only about 5 of those seasons being a first team All NBA level player. With his raw talent and physical abilities, he could have been in the GOAT conversation as well as the MVP conversation every single year. But instead he ended up being a human highlight real for like 5 to 6 years and ended his career with 0 championships, 0 scoring titles, 0 MVP’s, 0 Finals MVP’s, 0 finals appearances. For any other great player that’s fine. But for him and his talent level, could have achieved more.
I’m all about winning… You start Kobe, you bench D Wade, you trade TMac and you cut Vince. We not basing this on who you like or who has potential. We basing it off of who do you win with. TMac nor Vince were winners. Respectfully. They not getting you to a finals or even a deep playoff run. We’ve seen DWade win a Finals MVP. We’ve seen Kobe win two of them. The answer is pretty obvious.
facts
Kobe and Wade had Shaq..put Shaq with VC, Tmac or AI. Winning is team game.
@@VengeanceSinX Please stop. Shaq with Wade was down 0-2 when the Mavs was whooping them. Wade put on a Herculean performance and got Shaq his 4th ring. That was not prime Shaq Wade was playing with. Shaq while still a top 15 player was not who he was with the Lakers. Kobe won 2 without the Diesel. The Greats get it done. TMac played with his cousin Vince who was in his prime and they never even got out the 1st round.
@@wc6081 hahaha clearly showed how dumb you are. VC was not 2011 Dallas Team. You dont even know which games im talking about, clearly a fucking nephew.
There was never a single second a season where Vince was the best ion the league, and Vince was my guy back then. Even 2000, that was Shaq in the most dominant version of anybody we ever saw. McCants be saying some real fried stuff at times.
I completely AGREE with Gil. Growing up in Toronto and watching Vince. There was a point in time where I and I’m sure many others as fans felt like he didn’t really care about the game of Basketball and didn’t really gave 100%. There is no way he shouldn’t be recognized as top 3 of all time.
The Raptors didn’t invest money in building a team around him and held him back.
Yep, my favorite player ever and I felt he could have been All-NBA first or second team consistently throughout his career.
@@ianrussellallcaps we had Trash management we all know that but so did Kobe but look at the numbers.
@@Dhomer0716 Toronto never had anywhere near the same roster as the lakers skill wise. Even when they had big name stars it was the same as nets issue. They acquired big names but they were way older and not as dynamic anymore. Plus they really allowed Tracy to leave too soon so unlike kobe he didn’t have a offensive counter off the hall anymore to draw defenses away and him to score at the same clip as kobe.
@@ianrussellallcaps I mentioned management to illustrate that both Elite players (Kobe and Vince) didn’t have the best roster to compete for a chip (i.e 2004 Raptors and 2006 Lakers) the point I’m making is, for the talent Vince had there is no reason why he shouldn’t be in the GOAT conversation. That’s why Gil is calling him lazy because instead of being the Lamborghini he is he settled for being a Honda civic with 300k miles.
In simple terms: look at his performances every time he played against Toronto. Regular season and Playoffs. He tortured us. If he played like that every night….🤦🏿♂️
DWade still giving them nightmares, I see 😂
Dwade and kobe were all nba defensive players and could give u the business offensively. Tmac CARRIED THE MAGIC and was a underrated defender. Vince didn't showcase that extra gear 2 b all time great
Cutting Dwade is crazy
No it aint. he’s not better than any of the players mentioned
Wade County is the 3rd best shooting guard of all time, with hardware to go with it. 🤷🏿♂️
Factual
The disrespect for Vince is crazy during his prime he was the second coming of mj . Toronto basketball area was named after him the sit canda center.
D Wade is on another level to Vince and TMac. Nobody is calling Vince or Tmac the 3rd best SG.
That's why Gil is pissed because them two should have been just as high as them.
If McGrady never got hurt, he might've. That's the only reason.
Prime Vince and tmac??? Were u even born when these two were priming?
@@TTJJCCMac is overrated and didn’t play any D before the injuries
@@andylee6147 I'm in my 30s and yeah Wade was on another level than them. Better player and better career. It's not really debatable.
Respect to Gil. I’m disgusted with Rashad and the chick’s answer. Cutting D.Wade is wiiiiiild.
GIL quoted HandCOCK, legendary on point
Vince was by far the most talented of all 4, but i gotta agree with gil compared to dwade, kobe, and tmac you could say he didn't put in the work like the other 3. VC had chances to get a ring with several teams.
I’m feelin Gil on this one.
Check it out…
With the ELITE ability he had,
I believe and I’m sure that Gil would agree to this,
With the ELITE natural ability he had,
Had the LEGENDARY work ethic that Kobe & Gil had,
Had the KILLER, wanna rip the heart out of his opponent NIGHT IN AND NIGHT OUT like Michael Jordan,
He would’ve led his teams to MULTIPLE championships!!!
I believe in my heart that if he had that RUTHLESS demeanor, I could see him doing way better than he did.
It turned into a great conversation.
the D wade disrespect is insane on the fact he has 3 rings
Lmao cutting Dwade is insane in the membrane😂😂😂
Lazy is not the right word, He just wasnt the same dog as Kobe and the other greats 💪🏾💪🏾
If you put Kobe on the Vince’s Toronto raptors team? How many rings does Kobe get? If u put vince on the lakers how many rings does vince get?
With Vince it’s about motor not talent and skills. He doesn’t seem like he wants it bad enough.