GRIZZLYSTIK SAMURAI 200 gr Broadhead Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2023
- This is a test of the 200 gr Samurai, 2 Blade, Single Bevel broadhead by GrizzlyStik.
Here is summary of my 2023 Testing Procedure & Scoring w/the scores of this head posted in parenthesis as well.
Here’s a great vid showing how to sharpen this head:
• Samurai single bevel b...
Samurai 200 gr Total Score: 78.13 = 7 Golden Arrows
1. Flight Forgiveness (20%, 15 pts)
This is not just a test of how heads fly out of my bow, as it was in the past. With a well tuned bow, properly built arrows & good form, almost every head flies well. That's why in the past most heads got a flight score of 9 or 10. But that doesn't help those who may not have perfectly tuned bows/arrows/good form. So now I am gauging Flight Forgiveness. This is based on how the head flies for me, how well it spins, how "sensitive" the flight is to imperfections, & the exposed surface area of the blades. The max score of a Mech is 20 & the max score of a Fixed is 16.
2. Cut Size (20%, 9.71 pts)
The more tissue being cut, the more lethal the head, all else equal. The entrance cut, total cut, & width of the cut (a crucial variable for bloodletting) are all scored:
The entrance cut size is compared to a standard of 2.5" then that fraction is weighted to 7% of the score. (1.13” = 3.16 pts)
The max cut size is compared to a standard of 2.5" as well, then that fraction is is weighted to 7% of the score. (1.13" = 3.16 pts)
The max cutting diameter is compared to a standard of 2.0", then that fraction is weighted to 6% of the score. (1.13" = 3.39 pts)
3. Blades (20%, 20 pts)
Initial sharpness (9%, 150 grams = 10/10 = 9 pts) & Edge Retention (9%, +0 grams = 10/10 = 9 pts) are measured using the Edge On Up Sharpness Tester. The pressure needed for a blade to cut thru a copolymer wire is measured in grams.
Edge Retention is the loss of sharpness after the head is shot in Penetration Test 1, thru 1/2" MDF and 2/3" rubber foam mat & Clear Ballistics FBI gel. For every 50 "grams" of sharpness lost, 1 point is deducted from 10.
What are some sharpness scores for common edges?
A butter knife takes 2000 grams of pressure to break the co polymer wire.
A new high end cutlery edge: ~ 375 grams of pressure.
A utility razor blade: 200 grams.
Based on the many broadheads I have tested, here is my scoring scale:
Out of the Box Sharpness:
0-200 gr: 10
201-300 gr 9
301-400 gr: 8
401-500 gr: 7
501-600 gr: 6
601-700 gr: 5
Ease to resharpen or replace blades is judged & given 2% of the score. (8/10=1.6 pts)
4. Penetration (20%, 14.67 pts)
There are 3 penetration tests:
Pen Test 1: 1/2" MDF, 2/3" rubber foam mat, Clear Ballistics FBI gel. Depth of penetration is compared to a standard of 9" & weighted to 9% of the score. (6.5" = 6.5 pts)
Pen Test 2: Layered cardboard. # of layers penetrated is compared to a standard of 70 layers & weighted to 9% of the score.
( 48 layers=6.17 pts)
Angled Penetration Test: How effectively does the head penetrate 1/4" MDF covered by carpet at a 45 degree angle. This accounts for 2% of the score. (10/10 = 2 pts)
5. Durability (20%, 17.8 pts)
Each head is shot thru 1/2" MDF 3 times. Its condition is judged 1-10 & weighted to 12% of the score. (10/10 = 12 pts)
If a head survives that, it is then shot thru 22 ga steel plate twice. Its condition is judged 1-10 & weighted to 5% of the score. (8/10 = 4 pts)
If a head survives that, it is then shot into concrete once. Its condition is judged 1-10 & weighted to 3% of the score. (6/10 = 1.8 pts).
Steel plate & concrete are certainly not "realistic" mediums, but they do reveal the outer limits of a head's durability.
BONUS:
+.75 pts thick blades (.069")
+.5 pts extra sharp blades & excellent edge retention
+.10 single bevel rotation (10 degrees at 10")
TOTAL SCORE: 78.13 pts = 7 Golden Arrows
Price: $36.66/head
Special Notes:
Please check out my sponsor, Stay Sharp Guide. staysharpguide.com or @Innovative Outdoorsman They make excellent broadhead sharpeners. The support I receive from them has helped me improve my channel
I also have some Broadhead Discount Codes I can share:
TRIFECTA: LUSK10 saves 10% on any order.
SEVR: LUSKFIVE saves you $5 on any order & can be used on top of any online sales.
ZEUS & HERA Broadheads (New Era Archery): LUSKFIVE saves $5/pack
Vector Custom Shop: LUSK gives Free Shipping
AFFLICTOR: LUSK10 saves 10%
Tooth of the Arrow: LUSK19 saves 10%
DEAD X BOWHUNTING Big Game Broadheads: LUSKFIVE saves $5 per pack.
Crimson Talon: LUSK15 saves 15%. - กีฬา
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I use these heads. They sre great.
Complete pass thru's on elk and deer. Never had any blade damage.. i shoot 50 lbs
Good to hear.
AmaZing test thank you...
On traditional arrows / bows those 3 to 1 heads just look cooler.
:)
Thanks for recycling them back through the newer protocols.
:)
Have you seen Ranch Fairy’s video regarding gel block testing? He points out that the gel excessively grips the shaft and arguably nullifies penetration results. I’d like to see a field point control arrow shot into the block along with the broad head you’re testing.
I have. And I understand the limits of gel. That's why I add 1/2" of MDF and rubber foam mat to that test...then also do the layered cardboard test. You can see the variance of penetration in the gel/MDF/rubber matt combo with all of the different heads I test. This one penetrated just over 6"; the Trifecta fixed, with a much wider cut, penetrated 9". Nothing is nullified, except the theory that longer heads penetrate better.
@@LuskArcheryAdventuresI enjoy your videos and your process but all so respect I'll take Ashby's 30 year study on thousands of animals as to what penetrates best on meat.
The 3:1 ratio isn’t about cutting it’s about the ease of splitting bone
Yeah, and it’s BS in that regard. Mechanical advantage is only applicable with the thickness of the blade, where bone is actually being pried apart, like a wedge is driving thru it. But not with the cutting diameter where it is cutting rather than prying.
@@LuskArcheryAdventures That's simply not true. Dumb take honestly. You're saying it doesn't matter if the blade is 3:1, or 2:1, or 1:1, or flat? Having a longer cutting length makes it easier to slice
In lower kinetic applications this is probably a great head, whereas high energy instances it may create scenarios that could cause tip curl.
Just consider friction from surface area, polishing the blade would reduce skin friction. That does matter under dynamic loading.
Mechanical advantage applies to both the broad head on the animal, but also the animal on the broad head.
Just two cents not saying anyone is wrong or right.
Another great video
Thank you
Hey John, I always enjoy your tests. It certainly shows us all what these heads are capable of. Myself and a couple buddies have been testing heads for 8-9 years now. Mostly on fresh elk bone from a local ranch and a lot of hunts. I agree some shorter heads penetrate better than alot of others, QAD Exodus has done great for us, 150 gr Bishop SM, and the tuffhead evolution 2.0. But, the original tuffhead 225 and 300 grain glue on heads have surpassed all in my tests. They are the only true 3:1 broadheads available. Most heads are 2-2.5" long at 1 1/8" wide and claim 3:1. Not all single bevels are equal. Cutthroat, grizzly stik samurai etc arent 3:1 and certainly dont penetrate like one. Ashby's testing was incredible and we've seen the same results. So we prefer either short and stout or the original tuffhead. I appreciate all the work you put into this
Thanks for sharing that.
Interesting thoughts on the 3:1 ratio. It made me think of slicing cheddar cheese with a sharp chef knife vs. a wire cheese slicer. Even though the wire isn't sharp, it cuts much easier because it doesn't have the blade friction that the chef knife does.
That's a great analogy.
Besides cheese is nothing like an animal and when cutting with a knife tmyou don't turn it and you are cutting down holding a handle not driving it through from behind.
Love this head. Think that the tuffheads have surpassed them somewhat now. But I'd still happily use it.
Yep...I prefer the shorter design of the Tuffhead Evolution 2s.
👍👍 one tough bone buster.
Well...yes, but not as tough as many others.
Another banger John. Thanks for all you do. Just bought the Tuffhead 200gr single bevels after your recent vid. Hope you do a review on the Ranch Fairy 200 ge SBs
Thank you. They are supposed to be sending me some to test.
Dont encourage this idiocy.
Great test, John. I love the samurai, and I was very excited to see you test it again. I like to watch your videos before I buy broadheads to see how it holds up. Whether it's realistic to an actual animal medium is irrelevant to me, I just want to see if it's worth the money and how durable it is. Thanks for taking the time and effort to put the videos out.
Thank you!
@@LuskArcheryAdventures You're welcome!
I think the 3:1 friction really comes in on elastic mediums that sort of squeeze the head as it cuts. Think of cutting velveeta vs meat, meat doesn’t squeeze back down as much as the cheese does, once it’s cut the resistance is pretty minimal. Very interesting testing!
Yep...and animals have both types of tissue/mediums.
To be fair to Dr. Ashby, his test were done on live animals. Just saying.
Well, I understand that. I've only referenced the principle as it applies to the mediums I've used. But the application of "mechanical advantage" when it comes to cutting as opposed to lifting is misapplied regardless.
John, correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't chop wood with a hammer, or cut meat with a blunt flat bar. A sharper, narrower tip and edge gives you the advantage over a sharp edge brought into contact at a square angle, because of the slicing action. Whether you're pushing a load over an incline,or the incline under the load makes no difference. The steeper the incline,the larger the force should be to overcome it. Isn't that mechanical advantage?
@@faniebrown4679yes that is mechanical advantage. But cutting doesn't require mechanical advantage. Cutting requires sharpness, period. Look at how sharpness is measured...blade is perpendicular to the wire applied straight down, no mechanical advantage applied.
@@tythomps I agree with what you say about how sharpness is measured. However,in a real world scenario,the arrow would be moving in a direction that is not perpendicular to the edge of the broadhead. If the angle of the edge didn't make any difference, we wouldn't have been using pointed objects to get penetration since the dawn of time.
@@faniebrown4679 still good reasons to make them pointy. Like aerodynamics, minimize deflection on impact, initiate penetration, etc.
I believe 11 of Ashby"s 12 are sound, but needing 3:1 is not something critical, and John's tests have been supporting that in the results. As do so many other broadheads with less than 3:1 that still get incredible penetration on animals.
Great test as always John. Defense would kill anything it goes through. Have you noticed that there isn't a huge difference in the gel from all the heads. What is the deepest and longest cut you have had on the gel?
No, I've not noticed that. Part of that is because I add 1/2" of MDF and 2/3" of rubber foam matt as well. This head penetrated just over 6"; the Trifecta 1.25" solid that I tested at the same time penetrated 9". That's a significant difference. Same is true in the layered cardboard.
Because its in irrelevant test...a better test is shooti g through one inch solid plywood...this guy is ridiculous and so is his test.
It’s a great head. I haven’t saw a whole lot standup to a cinder block, especially a mechanical. Those heads don’t penetrate well in ballistic gel because of the friction like you said and they are trying to do their job a rotate.
Thanks for the comment. Quite a few actually have been holding up very well to concrete, recently.
I got a good suggestion for a heaed to test John. Bone broaheads. Ive never used them but I'm curious to see what they are made of. Maybe I will donate a couple when I can afford it!! Lol times are tough right now!! Lol
Thank you. They were going to send me some, but stopped manufacturing during Covid...and I haven't heard from them since. Not sure if they're making them again or not.
Finally! I found a nasty deal on some grizzlystick heads a couple times and the maasais fly a little better for me but I have both in the quiver on hunts. I didn't know they were only 55 Rockwell, they seem so much hardeer than that to me, closer to O2, definitely harder than A2. That's just comparing them to old carpentry blades so who knows.
Really interesting point about the mechanical leverage in penetration. I disagree though, I'm pretty sure the Ashby findings aren't in regards to slicing meat, it's mainly about spreading bone apart with force left over to cut organs.
Thanks for the comment.
i dont like heads that use screws to hold the blade in the ferrule like that. i have played around with them quite a bit and you can loosen the screws and tilt the blade one way or the other and make them not spin true. you have to get them centered just perfect (trial and error) to get them perfectly straight. im pretty sure with any somewhat hard impact you will have to adjust the blade in the ferrule.
Thanks for the comment.
If anyone didn't like these results: I have some Massai grizzlystik heads and they spin flawlessly after hitting rocks. huge chunks missing, spin dead straight and shoot with the group. I recommend those, they fly a hair better too. For me. Edit: I should say the samurais still fly well, they get a tiny bit less good beyond 40, where the maasais drill at 65, the farthest pin I have.
I’d like to test the Maasai’s as well
@@LuskArcheryAdventures I hope you get a chance to, I haven't shot a lot of heads but I never expected them to fly as well as they did, let along after being damaged. But as you've shown there's a LOT of nice broadheads out there, thanks for the hard work I really like the 2023 testing system.
I kind of wish you would do your test all on animal flesh, hair, blood , and bone, and dissect all the damage, along with all your normal tests are good and fun👊
If I had enough animals to do that with, I would. I shoot as many animals each year as I can, and I use as many different heads as possible when I do that, just to show how they perform on game. I will say, whenever a head does well in my testing, it ALWAYS does well in the field, too.
The largest thing I have seen against most mediums is a lack of lubrication that blood would provide in the real world. Have you tested shooting through oil right before the gel to see if that causes the 3:1 heads to then out perform a shorter head that would beat it in dry gel?
Yes I've mentioned that on a old video of John's
That is accurate...to a degree. Bone and hide don't have much lubrication either. I've experimented with oil and powder, but didn't see much difference and it messed up the gel as well.
@@LuskArcheryAdventures imo if you hit elk shoulder with this blade I don't think any bending damage will happen or it might be barely visible but I do like the brick test because if it passes that then it will pass the test through any bone
@@LuskArcheryAdventuresbones are not dry in a live animal...you must wear gloves or have the guide do it....touch one next time...and theres cartilage in the middle sooooooooooooooooo
Nice broadhead but I have watched your videos for years and would agree with you about the longer broadheads. I think even 3 blades would do better with the shorter profiles.
Thanks for the comment.
Any idea what the initial speed with that head on?
I'm not sure; probably around 270 fps.
Too me, stainless steel is just so much harder to sharpen compared to carbon. It is also like having a shiny mirror on the end of your arrow. I also prefer the ferrule and head to be one piece construction. I have also wondered about broadhead friction on a longer broadhead compared to a shorter broadhead with the same width cut. Shorter broadheads definitely have the potential for better more consistent flight and the wider the tip the less likely the tip will curl on hard bone impacts.
Thanks for the comment.
I think the 3:1 is probably great for big game, like in Africa, but your average whitetail doesn’t take much to cut through. Just miss those heavy bones on the front legs and any quality broad head design will be fine! I watched a doe drop 20 yards after the shot last year. Single lung, liver, and esophagus from a quartered to shot. Stayed off that front shoulder and got the height right. Of course that shot placement wasn’t hurt by the Sevr on the end!
Yeah, but even in bone breaching and heavy animals, I believe the 3:1 is overrated. Thanks for the comment.
The entire theory is to be able to shoot through bone....heart shot both legs broken your average anything isn't going anywhere...AND this was intentionally designed for recurves and long bows.
I tried that head. Shot one under a turkey into the dirt and it snapped the blade tip off. I got rid of them shortly after that.
What you saying about the longer blade and friction, as well as the cutting vs lifting is what Bill at Iron Will states as the reason for his design.
Yep. Thanks for sharing that experience.
Isn't the 3 to 1 advantage about splitting bone not slicing meat?
That's not the point. It's about optimal dimensions for penetration. But it certainly applies to bone--and is not optimal for penetration at higher speeds.
i think the single bevel was designed for that ; splitting bone; rather than a double bevel, hence the rotation that they apply when they go thru
@@LuskArcheryAdventuresit is actually 100% the point
This is how to sharpen them. th-cam.com/video/3HUjvi1-6uA/w-d-xo.html
Thank you!
Im surprised no is commenting on the fact that this split a concrete block. Lol
Yeah, that was cool. It happens every now and then--usually based on the cinder block already having a bit of a crack in it from other hits. But still cool to see.
Dr Ashby only tested with fresh killed animals. No broadhead is designed for wood, concrete, rubber or steel. None of your tests equate to performance on animals. It does work on comparing broadheads to broadheads in your specific test. It is wrong for you to say your results transfers to performance in animals. Just my opinion. I do enjoy watching your tests.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yeah, my goal is to compare broadheads to broadheads under consistent testing with uniform materials. I’m testing sharpness/edge retention, flight forgiveness, cut size, penetration , and durability. Those are the 5 most important areas to test to predict how well a head will perform on an animal-even though the animal is not part of the testing.
But I do also shoot as many different animals with as many different heads as possible. And I’ve found that ALL of the heads that excel in my testing, excel in my hunting as well. So it’s not wrong to say my tests transfer to performance in animals.
I did a 4 hr podcast with Aron Snyder. He is on hunts where about 75 animals are taken over a year. So he does his testing almost completely in the field. He compared his findings with my own, done primarily in the lab. And our results and conclusions were almost completely identical. It was very validating for each of us. He too would be quick to say my tests transfer to performance in animals. As a matter of fact, he said my tests are the best there are-by far.
Im always evaluating for how I can make the tests better, but I’m feeling pretty confident about the correlation between my ratings and their actual performance in hunting situations.
First of all I really enjoy this series of videos for the entertainment value they offer. They are fun! But to question or disregard the evidence Ashby has put forth (such as 3:1 ratio) when penetrating game animals over a 30 plus year study is simply hubris. Shooting cinderblocks, cardboard, and gel (while fun) has little to nothing to do with shooting animals.
Well, thank you for the comment. But in my humble opinion, you are not correct. I'm not trying to arrogant in any way--just commenting on the tests that I've done and the misapplication of the principle of mechanical advantage. There is a quickly growing group of people like myself who are expressing this same idea.
Like I said, I enjoy your content but in the end you are a guy shooting broadheads through cardboard and gel. I have an open mind but, for now, I’ll lean more on a 30 year scientific study than some dude slinging arrows in his basement.
I have no reason to believe that arrogance is in any way a contributing factor to a wrong conclusion when it comes to the opinion on whether a 3:1 ratio is mechanically advantageous. But the conclusion in this video is incorrect. I’ll explain why here and provide a link on the science of cutting to support the position.
1. The mediums you use are uniform in nature and, especially when using the ballistics gel, the medium provides a drag (call this friction) along the blade that is not present in animal tissue. The gel displaces only enough for the projectile to move through it, while applying a force back on the projectile as it’s elasticity attempts to return to the original shape. Mammal soft tissue, especially muscles and organs, do not behave in this way. Muscle, especially, actually separates as you cut the fibers, leading to the exact opposite effect of the gel. Organ tissue and skin do no attempt to close and “squeeze” the blade the same way the gel does. So, your conclusion that the surface area of the 3:1 blades cause less penetration in the gel is correct, but is not a valuable representation of the broad head design’s ability to penetrate an animal.
2. Lubrication: In addition to the behavior of mammal tissue mentioned above, blood and other internal fluids provide lubrication for what little “friction” there is along the surface area of the blade from the tissue that retains its shape a little better than muscle. Lungs and liver are a little more “gel-like” but do not have the elasticity or density of gel and provide nothing like the friction of gel. The heart behaves much more like muscle. The gel has no lubricating factor like the animal tissue does, rendering its poor medium for testing animal penetration even further.
3. Lastly, mechanical advantage. This is a big one with regards to your position. Mechanical advantage DOES apply to cutting. I will provide a rather in depth article on this. I’ll summarize it in an example. Let’s assume that you want to cut downward through a raw steak with a blade (a knife for example). If you take the knife and press straight down, you do zero slicing and apply only a “push” cut. The amount of downward force required to cut the steak is incredibly high. Now, if you slice the steak using a horizontal to vertical ratio of 3:1, you reduce the downward force required by 2/3. If the ratio is 10:1 then the reduction is 90%, etc. The slicing is using horizontal distance to create the advantage. This horizontal distance takes some amount of additional work, but it requires much less force to achieve the downward penetration you are looking for. With a broadhead, the angle of the broadhead is doing this horizontal work for you by its design. As the article below concludes “In summary, there is an inherent mechanical advantage to the slicing action of a blade.” And “slicing” is merely a ratio of perpendicular to parallel action.
scienceofsharp.com/2021/04/27/the-slice-cut/
The mediums that you use in your test are null and void in the hunting world. As far as shooting cardboard, concrete blocks , ballistics gel and metal plate those in no way reflect what that broadhead will do to an animal. Waste of time and some really good broadheads.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. But I disagree. The mediums I use are certainly not "animals." But they are consistent and uniform, and they do reveal penetration, edge retention, and durability under extreme conditions.
The tests are designed to provide comparative data points. If one head can handle a shot into concrete and another cannot, then all other things equal, why would you not choose the one that can handle it?
Surviving a shot into concrete is certainly not necessary in order to kill an animal. But if it can handle that, then I'd feel all the more confident using it on an animal.
@@LuskArcheryAdventuresthats the dumbest thing ive ever heard....if you can texas heart shot a water buffalo or shoot through both shoulders of an elk and break them...THATS A GOOD BROADHEAD....when you can shoot a whitetail anywhere and it dies...thats a good broadhead....FURTHERMORE it is designed for a high FOC arrow and a 600 plus grain setup....i bet if you used the ashby arrows with this broadhead it would complete pass through your stupid tests. All of them.
All you got to do is listen to the Rocket man and the ranch fairy and you will be in good sharp to kill anything. Or you can keep fucking around with garbage equipment. What ever works for you. Later.
Okay...whatever.
Your gel penetration test is meaningless as nobody hunts gel blocks, we hunt live animals. Gel grabs and slows all media going through it whereas living tissue does not. Dr. Ashby's reports are also based off of literally thousands of data points from shooting live animals, not a couple of shots into a gel block.
If all you're interested in is penetrating gel, perhaps you should shoot field points and sit how much farther a field point penetration gel while using tiny diameter arrows (less surface contact). If you're interested in penetrating living tissue, do what Ashby did & shoot thousands of animals, then post the data and see if you have the same thoughts.
Great effort, but gel is meaningless when comparing archery penetration on living tissue, period.
Well, it's not meaningless. Gel does indeed grab the sides more than most tissue does...but hide and ligaments and bone can do that as well...but I add the MDF and Rubber Mat as well. Gel is consistent and it also allows for a visible demonstration.
Then I also test them in Layered Cardboard for a secondary penetration test.
There are limits to any testing. But I choose to limit mine with consistent mediums. Animals are what we're hunting, but they are anything but consistent, so that makes comparative value of testing less beneficial.
I was Surprised it held up so well against the Concrete, wasn't expecting that, i guess if you're going to use it on deer it'll more than get the job done, maybe not so much on Heavyweight Game ... 😎🏹🦬🐏🐗
Yeah, if they'd just make it shorter, it would fly better, penetrate better, and be more durable on hard impacts.
You should watch the videos with the arrows its designed for...this guy is an absolute tool...with the right arrow these will shoot texas heart shot a water buffalo ethically.
3rd dumbest comment ive ever seen on the internet.
@@LuskArcheryAdventuresoh like the masai broadheads they make😮 idiot
@tolt1776 listen buddy, I'm very Old School, I don't like disrespect for No reason, if you can't say something Positive don't say Anything, life's to Short, Happy Hunting ... 😎🏹🦌🐗