Absolutely, been in the field 23 years and there's certain things you pickup along the way and the distinct smell of exhaust from a cracked exchanger is definitely one of them
You are absolutely correct (plugged heat exchanger with rust &calcium). I guess some technicians would pull out a combustion analyzer and waste a little time to determine what old timers like you and I already know. Those 90+ Carriers are notorious for this. That TH-cam guy out of Michigan changes these heat exchangers all the time. I bet he could probably change those heat exchangers blindfolded (he normally has a nice clean basement , crawl spaces suck). I’m assuming you installed a nice new Train furnace in its place (replacing a 2006 heat exchanger would be a waste of time , even if the heat exchanger was under warranty). Good job👍.
Secondary heat exchanger is probably plugged/ semi plugged. Those junk carriers are notorious for those secondary’s rotting away. I always carry and inspection camera with me for those specific furnaces, I bet you if you pulled that blower you would see the back of the secondary where the transfer plate is completely rusted out.
I would've just done a combustion test on it from the get go. Open roll out almost always leads to failed heat exchanger. That style of carrier for 25 years has the known heat exchanger problem. Good video!!
Some of the Carrier products, with individual burners, actually have end burners with the outside transfer channels pinched off, like their package units. I always pinch off the ends of the top burners in horizontal furnaces when I see signs of heating and the flame riding close to the top of the box. Obviously always check the heat exchangers, but on newer units I do it to prevent a nuisance rollout trip during long and frequent run time in real cold weather. You would think the colder intake air would help keep the temps down in that box. Smelling is believing, it is a smell you will always recognize, that thing is restricted on the secondary.
I agree with you 100% Ted. If your getting that piercing smell at the exhaust you know that H/E is the culprit. Gas pressure was likely not checked when the unit was installed and lead to the early failure. Hope you had a nice Christmas and all the best for the new year. The old HVAC guy in Toronto.👍🇨🇦
I condemn at least one of these a week. Any 58 series carrier with the square inducer motor has the plated secondary that's notorious for having a bunch of pinholes in it.
It appeared to be a rich burner from the looks of the interior having heat spots, the burned wire insulation and so forth. For those who don't have the experience or concerns to learn, you can use your nose to determine if that exhaust is to rich or off from a normal burn.
I don't make fun ted I love doing this I'm a 22 year old doing hvac I absolutely love it I'm like u I can just tell when something isn't right 😊😊 amazing work keep it up and happy new years 😊
I will look forward to the next part. Any possibility of air obstruction? If dirt daubers or paper wasps built nests in that outflow, might that prevent the inducer from doing its job? The noise you were hearing could be broken off bits from such nest(s), and/or remains of prior occupants, rattling around in the pipe or fan. A few feet of borescope in that pipe would only take a few minutes. I will NEVER try to say what someone else "should have" done; it is only useful to figure out why he did what he did. I wasn't there, and there's probably all kinds of stuff you noticed, like the age of the system, what the homeowner said about how well it worked (when not shut off), and you even described a smell, which is meaningless to me. I stand to learn something from the next part!
From the looks of the Flame BRIDGE My Bet is that the heat exchanger IS a failure. Probably on the second section of the top tube. (If that model has a double exchange system ) You are correct about the top of the flame bridge and how it could be squeezed closed and stop that roll out from tripping. ( done it before ) HAPPY NEW YEAR .😎🇺🇸
possibly plugged heat exchanger, but could be the draft inducer running slow from weak capacitor and just good enough to make and hold the pressure switch. it could also be over firing from not being adjusted or have a pressure/vent tube to gas valve clogged, that for sure will throw it off.
These furnaces are notorious for bad secondary heat exchangers. I bet if you measure CO at the exhaust, you will measure 800+ ppm. Their inducer motor is the next most expensive part that start going bad. FYI at the time of writing this comment, induce draft motor of this furnace, is not in stock anywhere across Canada and US. So Ted is saving his customer a lot of money and grief by selling him a new furnace rather than repairing it.
I see some people dogging carrier furnaces but they’re actually a very simple unit to work on. I see that all the time where the burn mark is on top of the burner box so most of the time while performing maintenance I will check that top and bottom burner and pinch off the supply rails at the end so it will not heat up the top and bottom box. ROLL TIDE!!!
Just replaced one of these on the 23rd of December. If it's a Carrier and it's going out on flame rollout i guarantee it's a plugged secondary heat exchanger . We have replaced a pile of these furnaces . Same symptoms every time.
Notorious issue with plugged heat exchanger on Carrier Weather Maker, secondary heat exchanger will be plugged from corrosion. Service Bulletin SMB 09-0024A
You know I keep some paint, but that was ridiculous. The light bulb setting in the hole on top of the unit was stupid looking too. The units that sit on the ground seem to rust way more rapid than usual. Good call on replacement!
Love your videos, work ethic and your follow-up videos. I do have a question for you or your followers. I have a Lennox Pulse furnace installed in 1982 and firebox replaced under recall in 1998 due to leakage issues. It failed the leaktest a couple of years ago with a tiny leak and condemed by the tech. I get nothing on my two home CO detectors and zero readings on a Professional Klein Detector I bought. I removed the Condemned Sticker and continue to use it. I plan to continue using it with monitoring. Based on your experience in the field, is there something that I am not taking into consideration. I did get an estimate from a local, Wilm. DE Trane dealer but I hate to throw something in the trash if it is working and does not appear to be dangerous at this point.
Good day Sir. Love your videos! So guess what I had to do at 6 am Christmas morning? I had to take a dollar bill and clean my flame sensor. Thanks for all your knowledge. Have a Happy New YEAR!! 🙂
Not sure, but it looks like the end burners do not have the cross slots pinched off. This allows the flame to continue sideways to the side of the combustion box.
Sometimes the hole is in the Downwind side of the heat exchange tube. If the ductwork is oversized ( bigger than necessary and has enough "Runs" ) it may NOT "Back pressure " enough to cause positive pressure on the BACK SIDE of the tube. In those cases( although rare ) you would get what I would call "Lift off" . That is when the flame is pulled INTO the tube, instead of rolling out. If it hasn't been cracked for long ( very small) or is on the back plate of the Induced Draft Motor, it may never show itself until you take it apart.
Hank Hill would probably say that You have been running Bastard Gas in it. They mix Propane and Butane together to make it Cheaper and it has a Yellow looking flame if it has Butane mixed with Propane. Hank Hill on King of the Hill cartoon used to call it Bastard gas.
I really enjoyed your videos. I'm a green HVac Tech. Been working since I have completed my HVAC program, which is 6 months ago. My question is !!!!!!!! The company I'm in now they told us not to tell homeowners anything period. Not even if they have a gas furnace or air handler, or how to replace a filter!!! Also, if a unit is 10 years old just condemn it !!! Is that sounds right??? Thank you. Please keep the videos coming. I'm learning from your 4 years ago videos.
Samy Z, I know your comment was not to me. But..... As an HVAC tech who has worked in the field for 19 years now, Please allow me to offer some advice. CHANGE COMPANIES. The HOMEOWNERS should be YOUR PRIORITY. You work FOR THEM. If you discover a Plumbing leak, TELL THEM. If you discover a dangerous electrical problem, TELL THEM. THEY FEED YOU ! I tell them, "When you get your paper copy of your power bill, Change your filter.
Why didn't you use co 2 tester . I myself have condemned more heat exchangers with my eyes and smell. Have a great day. Use to have more failures on horizontal furnaces.
Roll out trips on carrier 90. + is usually signs of bad secondary heat exchanger combustion Analyzer test would have proved that heat exchanger not working properly
On those Carriers. I'll pull the drain tubing from the collector box, if there is that rust looking crap thats a sign, I'll also pull the blower and you can see the buildup on the bottom of those crappy HXers....they are trash and fail religiously
I condemned the exact same furnace today. Had massive roll out. smelled really bad. My temp rise was only 10 degrees. Burners and blower came on. Heat exchanger failed and my carbon monoxide detector went off over 100 ppm.
yes the smell tells the story, i personally use my combustion analyzer or just pull the blower, CO will be through the roof or you will just plain old see it in the secondary heat exchanger. I have countless photo's from carrier made furnaces made between 2000 what ever up till hell I think 2015 was the one I had the other day. I personally think they make a AC with good longevity but there Furnaces have absolute garbage heat exchangers and over all poor condensate drainage.
What they don't realize is the first test equipment you use are your eyes, ears, and nose. Everything else is supplemental, but your in built test equipment is equally valid.
Probably was a hell of a lot better than you sold them a new system. Good to put the 1500 to 2,000 + dollars to something worth while than a POS carrier.
Absolutely, been in the field 23 years and there's certain things you pickup along the way and the distinct smell of exhaust from a cracked exchanger is definitely one of them
You are absolutely correct (plugged heat exchanger with rust &calcium). I guess some technicians would pull out a combustion analyzer and waste a little time to determine what old timers like you and I already know. Those 90+ Carriers are notorious for this. That TH-cam guy out of Michigan changes these heat exchangers all the time. I bet he could probably change those heat exchangers blindfolded (he normally has a nice clean basement , crawl spaces suck). I’m assuming you installed a nice new Train furnace in its place (replacing a 2006 heat exchanger would be a waste of time , even if the heat exchanger was under warranty). Good job👍.
Secondary heat exchanger is probably plugged/ semi plugged. Those junk carriers are notorious for those secondary’s rotting away. I always carry and inspection camera with me for those specific furnaces, I bet you if you pulled that blower you would see the back of the secondary where the transfer plate is completely rusted out.
Hey settle down there about Carrier. My heat exchanger went after 21 years.....one year too late. Not a bad life for a heat exchanger.
Are the Bryants junk too?
I would've just done a combustion test on it from the get go. Open roll out almost always leads to failed heat exchanger. That style of carrier for 25 years has the known heat exchanger problem. Good video!!
Just had mine replaced last November on a Carrier. Kept tripping the roll out switch.
I'm assuming you don't live anywhere that gets a lot of snow and ice?
Do the Bryants have that issue too?
Some of the Carrier products, with individual burners, actually have end burners with the outside transfer channels pinched off, like their package units. I always pinch off the ends of the top burners in horizontal furnaces when I see signs of heating and the flame riding close to the top of the box. Obviously always check the heat exchangers, but on newer units I do it to prevent a nuisance rollout trip during long and frequent run time in real cold weather. You would think the colder intake air would help keep the temps down in that box. Smelling is believing, it is a smell you will always recognize, that thing is restricted on the secondary.
I agree with you 100% Ted. If your getting that piercing smell at the exhaust you know that H/E is the culprit. Gas pressure was likely not checked when the unit was installed and lead to the early failure. Hope you had a nice Christmas and all the best for the new year. The old HVAC guy in Toronto.👍🇨🇦
The soft spoken Carolinian is back at work, giving us great HVAC videos. Happy New Year and best wishes for your company's success. 😎
I condemn at least one of these a week. Any 58 series carrier with the square inducer motor has the plated secondary that's notorious for having a bunch of pinholes in it.
It appeared to be a rich burner from the looks of the interior having heat spots, the burned wire insulation and so forth. For those who don't have the experience or concerns to learn, you can use your nose to determine if that exhaust is to rich or off from a normal burn.
I don't make fun ted I love doing this I'm a 22 year old doing hvac I absolutely love it I'm like u I can just tell when something isn't right 😊😊 amazing work keep it up and happy new years 😊
I will look forward to the next part. Any possibility of air obstruction? If dirt daubers or paper wasps built nests in that outflow, might that prevent the inducer from doing its job? The noise you were hearing could be broken off bits from such nest(s), and/or remains of prior occupants, rattling around in the pipe or fan. A few feet of borescope in that pipe would only take a few minutes.
I will NEVER try to say what someone else "should have" done; it is only useful to figure out why he did what he did. I wasn't there, and there's probably all kinds of stuff you noticed, like the age of the system, what the homeowner said about how well it worked (when not shut off), and you even described a smell, which is meaningless to me. I stand to learn something from the next part!
From the looks of the Flame BRIDGE My Bet is that the heat exchanger IS a failure. Probably on the second section of the top tube. (If that model has a double exchange system ) You are correct about the top of the flame bridge and how it could be squeezed closed and stop that roll out from tripping. ( done it before ) HAPPY NEW YEAR .😎🇺🇸
The smell tells it all. Great video
possibly plugged heat exchanger, but could be the draft inducer running slow from weak capacitor and just good enough to make and hold the pressure switch. it could also be over firing from not being adjusted or have a pressure/vent tube to gas valve clogged, that for sure will throw it off.
These furnaces are notorious for bad secondary heat exchangers. I bet if you measure CO at the exhaust, you will measure 800+ ppm. Their inducer motor is the next most expensive part that start going bad. FYI at the time of writing this comment, induce draft motor of this furnace, is not in stock anywhere across Canada and US. So Ted is saving his customer a lot of money and grief by selling him a new furnace rather than repairing it.
I see some people dogging carrier furnaces but they’re actually a very simple unit to work on. I see that all the time where the burn mark is on top of the burner box so most of the time while performing maintenance I will check that top and bottom burner and pinch off the supply rails at the end so it will not heat up the top and bottom box. ROLL TIDE!!!
Happy Holidays Ted 🔧👍
On those I just check the smell on the exhaust after I make sure the inducer, blower, and filter are good. Then replace it under the service bulletin.
Hello from the great state of Michigan
Just replaced one of these on the 23rd of December. If it's a Carrier and it's going out on flame rollout i guarantee it's a plugged secondary heat exchanger . We have replaced a pile of these furnaces . Same symptoms every time.
You could see the problem before you even opened it up. They circled it for you on that blue oval logo.
My money's on you, Ted. Happy New Year!
I had a carrier just like this. I had bad heat exchangers. It had a 20 year warranty on it so I had if fixed. But I definitely want to get a traine!
Exhaust obstruction for sure, I think I'm in the plugged up secondary camp.
Notorious issue with plugged heat exchanger on Carrier Weather Maker, secondary heat exchanger will be plugged from corrosion. Service Bulletin SMB 09-0024A
I believe there was a class action suit against Carrier. If I’m not mistaken, the heat exchanger and the labor is covered for 20 years (?).
Greetings from Australia !!
You know I keep some paint, but that was ridiculous. The light bulb setting in the hole on top of the unit was stupid looking too. The units that sit on the ground seem to rust way more rapid than usual. Good call on replacement!
Does this also possibly indicate a plugged secondary heat exchanger?
Love your videos, work ethic and your follow-up videos.
I do have a question for you or your followers.
I have a Lennox Pulse furnace installed in 1982 and firebox replaced under recall in 1998 due to leakage issues. It failed the leaktest a couple of years ago with a tiny leak and condemed by the tech. I get nothing on my two home CO detectors and zero readings on a Professional Klein Detector I bought. I removed the Condemned Sticker and continue to use it. I plan to continue using it with monitoring. Based on your experience in the field, is there something that I am not taking into consideration. I did get an estimate from a local, Wilm. DE Trane dealer but I hate to throw something in the trash if it is working and does not appear to be dangerous at this point.
had exact same issue couple days ago at a customers house, very hard to get a new furnace during xmas holidays!
I agree…secondary heat exchanger problem..
Good day Sir. Love your videos! So guess what I had to do at 6 am Christmas morning? I had to take a dollar bill and clean my flame sensor. Thanks for all your knowledge. Have a Happy New YEAR!! 🙂
Not sure, but it looks like the end burners do not have the cross slots pinched off. This allows the flame to continue sideways to the side of the combustion box.
We'll learn em , won't we 🤣😅😂 Thx Ted , Zsa would be proud ...
Wouldn't high gas pressure cause the same symptoms?
Yes.
I'm gonna bet your right👍
Smell it, or check for corrosion on secondary
I hope you had a wonderful Christmas Ted and thanks for all the videos throughout the year.Ted did you get a new truck for Christmas..
I know that smell!!! Found some Carrier and Bryant furnace with same symptoms
It's a little Crusty Momma.
Happy Holidays Ted
I bet it's got some holes, that's the only thing that makes sense, but why didn't we see the flame react when the blower came on?
Sometimes the hole is in the Downwind side of the heat exchange tube. If the ductwork is oversized ( bigger than necessary and has enough "Runs" ) it may NOT "Back pressure " enough to cause positive pressure on the BACK SIDE of the tube. In those cases( although rare ) you would get what I would call "Lift off" . That is when the flame is pulled INTO the tube, instead of rolling out. If it hasn't been cracked for long ( very small) or is on the back plate of the Induced Draft Motor, it may never show itself until you take it apart.
Great video. I have the same Little Giant Next Gen. Pump.
Hank Hill would probably say that You have been running Bastard Gas in it. They mix Propane and Butane together to make it Cheaper and it has a Yellow looking flame if it has Butane mixed with Propane. Hank Hill on King of the Hill cartoon used to call it Bastard gas.
Carrier added an onboard light bulb to these furnaces. They knew they would have to be worked on a lot. Just wanted the techs to be able to see
I really enjoyed your videos. I'm a green HVac Tech. Been working since I have completed my HVAC program, which is 6 months ago. My question is !!!!!!!!
The company I'm in now they told us not to tell homeowners anything period. Not even if they have a gas furnace or air handler, or how to replace a filter!!! Also, if a unit is 10 years old just condemn it !!! Is that sounds right??? Thank you.
Please keep the videos coming. I'm learning from your 4 years ago videos.
Samy Z, I know your comment was not to me. But..... As an HVAC tech who has worked in the field for 19 years now, Please allow me to offer some advice. CHANGE COMPANIES. The HOMEOWNERS should be YOUR PRIORITY. You work FOR THEM. If you discover a Plumbing leak, TELL THEM. If you discover a dangerous electrical problem, TELL THEM. THEY FEED YOU ! I tell them, "When you get your paper copy of your power bill, Change your filter.
Did that date say July 2014? Not that old, that sucks for them, great for us! Looking forward to the tear and upgrade video.
July 2006
I thought is said 2004. Not sure- will go back and check the video again.
What’s with the light 💡 bulb?😆
Air horn, nice name for a venturi :-)
As a tech for 34 years and roughly same age as you experience sometimes is all you need instead of testing the younger guys just don’t have yet!
I mean its a carrier no need to guess lol. They had a class action lawsuit for a reason
My bet is you're right.
I’m betting on the old dude. Being one I have faith.
It’s simply called “experience”…👍👍
Isn't that one of the models that had a class action suit.
Looking forward to part 2.
Why didn't you use co 2 tester . I myself have condemned more heat exchangers with my eyes and smell. Have a great day. Use to have more failures on horizontal furnaces.
Did you say CO 2...... that's carbon dioxide....
Did you mean CO which is carbon monoxide, and we have carbon monoxide detectors.....
As many years of experience and as many trouble calls you have been on! I put my money on YOU!!
Was that a 'performance enhancing' light bulb perhaps lol
Roll out trips on carrier 90. + is usually signs of bad secondary heat exchanger combustion Analyzer test would have proved that heat exchanger not working properly
Teddy get a new camera and editing software for Christmas?
👍
the sniff test never fails
From what I seen, I agree with you. After 47 yrs, you can just tell by the means you used. BTDT.
That's seems pretty rusty for a heater from only mid 2006. Can you please explain what might have caused all that rust. Thanks!
If it was on LP would be a good reason for the corrosion.
On those Carriers. I'll pull the drain tubing from the collector box, if there is that rust looking crap thats a sign, I'll also pull the blower and you can see the buildup on the bottom of those crappy HXers....they are trash and fail religiously
Not an HVAC guy but I will put my money on you.
get a combustion tester you will love it.
I tell you right now, my boss would never let the furnace stay in there with just that rust alone. : (
It would of been nice for you to put a c.o meter at the exhaust just to see what it reads.
I condemned the exact same furnace today. Had massive roll out. smelled really bad. My temp rise was only 10 degrees. Burners and blower came on. Heat exchanger failed and my carbon monoxide detector went off over 100 ppm.
i agree, that HX is gonna way past its prime. its scary how many people skip inspecting the HX for damage
yes the smell tells the story, i personally use my combustion analyzer or just pull the blower, CO will be through the roof or you will just plain old see it in the secondary heat exchanger. I have countless photo's from carrier made furnaces made between 2000 what ever up till hell I think 2015 was the one I had the other day. I personally think they make a AC with good longevity but there Furnaces have absolute garbage heat exchangers and over all poor condensate drainage.
that lightbulb sticking in might be creating draft issue------should not be there anyway----
I’d trust you’re guess based on experience to anyone else’s “facts.”
The burners on those stink, the outside ends need to be pinched shut. My bet is that the 2nd heat exchanger is clogged
I’m gonna blame the secondary HX
Get that Carrier death box out of there!
That smell is the aldehydes. The heat exchanger is plugged up
What they don't realize is the first test equipment you use are your eyes, ears, and nose. Everything else is supplemental, but your in built test equipment is equally valid.
That heat exchanger is roached. If you’re going to replace the heat exchanger, you’re going to need to replace the burners as well.
Drawing combustion air from the crawl bad idea.
I wouldn't bet against you. Seems they corrode more under the house.
Probably was a hell of a lot better than you sold them a new system. Good to put the 1500 to 2,000 + dollars to something worth while than a POS carrier.
Carrier should NEVER be on its side ...period
That was a poor design for the secondary heatexchanger I sold some of those. It's plugged
My money is on your nose. I know testing is always definitive but I also know you have decades of experience.
Normal
Why even bother. The secondary is plugged. Get analyzer out and do a co check . New heat exchanger or new furnace time
Gas pressure is to high over firing for 18 years just burning the heat exchanger let’s don’t be to quick to blame the manufacture
Rusted Heat Exchanger a bad sign.
Sure beats talking politics or modern culture, lol. :)
Secondary is bad bet u if u pull the inducer off the exhaust smell like rotten eggs
worst furnace carrier ever made. secondary rotts out , quick on LP gas.
Sorta strange - ole anti-DIY does lots of DIY??
Get that Carrier death box out of there!