18 years ago, when this came out, I was à beginner audiophile, and I was too short on cash for this kind of product... But now, if I can find one somewere, I buy it instantly!
I think it must have more to do with balancing than light scatter. By far the best sounding CD transports I ever heard were all based on the pioneer stable platter design. Audio Alchemy, EAD, Pioneer all have great sounding players and transports based on it. CEC, Rega, Naim and other companies used heavy clamp weights to achieve a similar result. It’s also possible that improving balance reduces chassis vibration which could affect the clock crystal inside the player and reduce jitter. Oppomod sells damped covers for Oppo player transports.
Also, not only does it make it more symmetrical and round, it very slightly moves the centre of mass towards the centre, which can only be a good thing.
That was fun. Cool to see old ideas for improvement. Before I rush out and look for one of these I should probably upgrade from playing the occasional CD on a crappy old blue ray/cd machine.
Light travels through a clear strata, ( Perspex, Glass, etc) by a process called TIR, Total Internal Relection, treating the edge would definately have an effect on the way the light travels within the disc, so it does make some sense.
It’s surprising how many CDs there are whose data is not equidistant from the centre hole. So while this makes the centre hole more central to the edge of thee we disk, the data can still be off centre. I did read about some product which corrects this data alignment issue. It’s possible both could be used, as long as this didn’t make cutting the edge go into the data. I was at first hesitant to use this on blu ray disks, because often the data goes right to the edge, same with some CDs. But it’s never been a problem. I also ink the inside edge of discs and any transparent part of the centre on both sides. I’ve cut about 50 disc now with no problems. While the improvements vary disc to disc, it’s often detectable but not blatant. I have occasionally noted fine detail improvements which were easy to hear once you know what to listen for. The thing with a hifi system is the source data reading is the most important part, and it’s probably the most susceptible to problems wrt data loss. CD mat made a big difference also.
When I lived in Leeds I used buy second hand Cds from a shop that had a good playback set up and green felt tip pens made by a company on the out skirts of Leeds designed to improve the sound and they did you could play a track then apply the pen to the outer mainly and it made on obvious difference better treble range imaging and dynamics so I bought one from the shop and yes it improved or altered the sound on any of my Cds there must have been something special in those pens as when it ran out a normal green pen made no difference I think the company stopped making them or closed this was many years ago
Techmoan didn’t leave it to a subjective hearing test, he did a digital transfer comparison and proved there was no difference. “You mileage may vary” is often used to justify people’s suggestibility. The human mind is indeed strange and defies logic and evidence… some humans I mean, but not me.
Seems to definitely improve things but I’m struggling a bit with all the naysayers online. I wonder if it works at least partly by making the disk perfectly circular to the centre hole. Maybe this reduces jitter and/or gives the laser less work to do.
They are trying to stop any scattered beam reflections from interfering with the reading of the disk. Next thing would be to paint the inside of the CD tray and read mechanism black to see if you could trap any reflected beams before they got to the read head.Will this do what the chamfering and darkening of the cd does?
I saw this on Techmoan's channel and he indicated that he couldn't hear any difference. To be fair, he's always very honest and says that his hearing isn't 100% so it might just be that. For me, I'll pass: it's an expensive machine and I'm happy with the quality of my CDs now. P.s. congratulations on all the views 👍
My worry would be that the disc could crack. Having seen a CD ROM (which of course normally spins an order of magnitude faster than an audio CD) shatter and send a fragment straight through a quarter inch hard plastic CD ROM drive, I'm always wary of any physical damage.
Never heard a disk treated like this so I cannot say for certain one way or the other, however a CD contains a music file, a stream of data that's over sampled to ensure data errors are corrected, and that's what you hear. I can understand how different CD players would sound better or worse due to how the software, DAC's and analogue components work, but the same disc in the same player with the same stream of data processed the same way on the same hardware sounds like snake oil. However, I can tell the difference between the Coaxial and Optical outputs on my CD player, so maybe there is more to it than we realise.
Audiophiles are easily rinsed of money. It's King's new clothes. Pay hundreds on something and you are bound to perceive it as better in order to justify he cost. I'd wager that just like modern art, you could blindfold test the average audiophile and tell them that headphones, for example, are top-notch and they will perceive greatness when in fact the headphones are run of the mill bog-standard. Subjectivity is the thing.
If it affects balance, then maybe but I'd rather spend the money on a proper transport like the OG VRDS clamp drives which does the same thing without the risk.
Congrats on a million views! No, really! I share your wonder that someone developed and funded this. I think they looked at that little clear rim of plastic at the outer-edge of a CD and thought 'I wonder'. They were clearly an astute business person!
Nice to see you grow your channel👌always be watching. Think its more in the black marking Vs cutting it. Sonys blueray cd is black, rounded of with a Nice edge for balancing. The edge after cutting with this is awful, need too be sanded a round or 3. 800grit-1000g-1200g, dont think i can find a diffrence on just cutting it tho.
Techmoan has covered this device on his channel , with inconclusive results . Most of these tweaks are dependent on how good your hearing is in the first place , which for many just isn’t up to the task mine included. So we get into the territory of individual experience , if you think it does help then why not . I believe it was quite expensive to buy, so it was a lot of money to spend and not be impressed . But that can apply to a lot of things in life not just hifi 😂. Best wishes and kind regards
@@Kx110x in fairness Techmoan doesn't claim to have great hearing, neither is it an audiophile channel. I like the guy..... But I'd never accept any of his conclusions regarding hifi.
Techmoan did a video on this thing not too long ago, he didn't find any difference in measurement or sound for that matter, but he is a "normie" tech enthusiast, not an audiophile. I don't lean either direction on this, whether it's worth it or not, personally, I wouldn't bother tbh.
What about CD Mats I've heard that's they supposed to work What do you think of them no!! do the same thing put it in a drill with a bolt and with 800 grit wet and dry smooth the edge
I remember an incredibly hostile review of this machine with science thrown in. It made me angry as it seemed to know without need to listen. When cdr came in some felt that the recording sounded better than the original and copies of copies better still. It was explained that better error correction might be happening.
This product completely ignores the fact that the data track may not be pressed concentrically to the centre hole, so teimmingbthe edge makes bugger all difference to the action of the servo. This might balance an off centre disc to reduce physical noise, but does nothing to improve disc reading. Your astronomy analogy is weak a cd read lens accepts light only over a very narrow angle range, scatter really never gets a look in.
The green pen did indeed work. If anyone says it didn’t they never used it. I used it when it was available and it made a noticeable difference for the better. I know a lot more about the pen in a technical sense but I’m sure I’d get attacked by the people who never tried it and are deniers if I uttered a word about it. It is based in science not fairy dust.
So Phil is lying then, when he says he experimented with the green pen and found no effect? There is an interesting article - which you’ll find if you Google for “Mythbusting with Marlene: the green marker tweak”. It’s not what the title suggests and I think you’ll find it interesting. You might also be persuaded to moderate your views on other people’s experiences just because they differ from your own.
The green pen thing was always nonsense, but because it was cheap a lot of people tried it. The laser is so intense that a thin layer of green ink wouldn't absorb more than a tiny fraction of the scattered light. It was green pen because green ink will absorb red light.
@@bigblueocean What are you suggesting? Anyhow, for your information, like many people back in the 90s, yes, I did try it - because the science behind it seems to make sense - until you do the sums that is. And like Phil I found no difference at all. No doubt his system was much more resolving than mine was at the time, but he reached the same conclusion.
I'd be too worried that removing material from the edge would increase the chances of CD delamination or Disc Rot.
If the procedure helps to reduce jitter it could very well make an audible difference. Probably very dependant on the CD player / transport used.
Didn't sell back in the day, aren't available anymore. That speaks volumes.
It was really expensive.... Otherwise I would have tried one.
Not really
Is that why HDCD went away?
18 years ago, when this came out, I was à beginner audiophile, and I was too short on cash for this kind of product...
But now, if I can find one somewere, I buy it instantly!
I think it must have more to do with balancing than light scatter. By far the best sounding CD transports I ever heard were all based on the pioneer stable platter design. Audio Alchemy, EAD, Pioneer all have great sounding players and transports based on it.
CEC, Rega, Naim and other companies used heavy clamp weights to achieve a similar result.
It’s also possible that improving balance reduces chassis vibration which could affect the clock crystal inside the player and reduce jitter.
Oppomod sells damped covers for Oppo player transports.
Good point. Often there can be unexpected mechanisms that make tweaks work. I put some damping onto my CD clamp and that helped.
Also, not only does it make it more symmetrical and round, it very slightly moves the centre of mass towards the centre, which can only be a good thing.
That was fun. Cool to see old ideas for improvement. Before I rush out and look for one of these I should probably upgrade from playing the occasional CD on a crappy old blue ray/cd machine.
Light travels through a clear strata, ( Perspex, Glass, etc) by a process called TIR, Total Internal Relection, treating the edge would definately have an effect on the way the light travels within the disc, so it does make some sense.
A CD isn't a fibre optic cable.
It’s surprising how many CDs there are whose data is not equidistant from the centre hole. So while this makes the centre hole more central to the edge of thee we disk, the data can still be off centre. I did read about some product which corrects this data alignment issue. It’s possible both could be used, as long as this didn’t make cutting the edge go into the data.
I was at first hesitant to use this on blu ray disks, because often the data goes right to the edge, same with some CDs. But it’s never been a problem. I also ink the inside edge of discs and any transparent part of the centre on both sides. I’ve cut about 50 disc now with no problems. While the improvements vary disc to disc, it’s often detectable but not blatant. I have occasionally noted fine detail improvements which were easy to hear once you know what to listen for.
The thing with a hifi system is the source data reading is the most important part, and it’s probably the most susceptible to problems wrt data loss. CD mat made a big difference also.
When I lived in Leeds I used buy second hand Cds from a shop that had a good playback set up and green felt tip pens made by a company on the out skirts of Leeds designed to improve the sound and they did you could play a track then apply the pen to the outer mainly and it made on obvious difference better treble range imaging and dynamics so I bought one from the shop and yes it improved or altered the sound on any of my Cds there must have been something special in those pens as when it ran out a normal green pen made no difference I think the company stopped making them or closed this was many years ago
So how did it sound ??
That’s hilarious 👌👌
One drop of antistatic fluid (like Nordost) rubbed on label side, is incredible!
Does just cutting the edge make any difference on its own? The disk might track better after balancing?
Techmoan didn’t leave it to a subjective hearing test, he did a digital transfer comparison and proved there was no difference.
“You mileage may vary” is often used to justify people’s suggestibility. The human mind is indeed strange and defies logic and evidence… some humans I mean, but not me.
Gravity one by origin live is meant to be a fantastic bit of tweekery for records 👍🏼think I’ll be getting one
I’ve ordered one of these off eBay 🤞
I’ve got lots of duplicate CDs so will be able to compare before and after. I’ll let you know how I get on.
Seems to definitely improve things but I’m struggling a bit with all the naysayers online. I wonder if it works at least partly by making the disk perfectly circular to the centre hole. Maybe this reduces jitter and/or gives the laser less work to do.
They are trying to stop any scattered beam reflections from interfering with the reading of the disk. Next thing would be to paint the inside of the CD tray and read mechanism black to see if you could trap any reflected beams before they got to the read head.Will this do what the chamfering and darkening of the cd does?
I now have a Lector CD transport and the inside of the tray is painted green to specifically absorb stray light.
I saw this on Techmoan's channel and he indicated that he couldn't hear any difference. To be fair, he's always very honest and says that his hearing isn't 100% so it might just be that. For me, I'll pass: it's an expensive machine and I'm happy with the quality of my CDs now. P.s. congratulations on all the views 👍
My worry would be that the disc could crack. Having seen a CD ROM (which of course normally spins an order of magnitude faster than an audio CD) shatter and send a fragment straight through a quarter inch hard plastic CD ROM drive, I'm always wary of any physical damage.
Just do it slowly to minimise chances of that.
Let's hear some before and after samples then. 16 bit will do.
I just use a black marker on the outer in inner edge, this works for me and is cheaper.
I’ve noticed some CDs have a sharp, square edge, others are more rounded.
Different if nothing else.
Run you finger around a wii U game disc. Smoother than a babies backside.
cool.
Never heard a disk treated like this so I cannot say for certain one way or the other, however a CD contains a music file, a stream of data that's over sampled to ensure data errors are corrected, and that's what you hear. I can understand how different CD players would sound better or worse due to how the software, DAC's and analogue components work, but the same disc in the same player with the same stream of data processed the same way on the same hardware sounds like snake oil. However, I can tell the difference between the Coaxial and Optical outputs on my CD player, so maybe there is more to it than we realise.
Got to keep an open mind. There is more to heaven and earth than your philosophy as someone said.
Entertaining, had me smiling with just the name .
Off topic what telescope do you use .
Audiophiles are easily rinsed of money. It's King's new clothes. Pay hundreds on something and you are bound to perceive it as better in order to justify he cost. I'd wager that just like modern art, you could blindfold test the average audiophile and tell them that headphones, for example, are top-notch and they will perceive greatness when in fact the headphones are run of the mill bog-standard. Subjectivity is the thing.
Mmmmm.
If it affects balance, then maybe but I'd rather spend the money on a proper transport like the OG VRDS clamp drives which does the same thing without the risk.
Congrats on a million views! No, really! I share your wonder that someone developed and funded this. I think they looked at that little clear rim of plastic at the outer-edge of a CD and thought 'I wonder'. They were clearly an astute business person!
Ever tried a CD mat? They can work.
@@Coneman3 no, I confess I haven't had the pleasure, no!
Nice to see you grow your channel👌always be watching. Think its more in the black marking Vs cutting it. Sonys blueray cd is black, rounded of with a Nice edge for balancing. The edge after cutting with this is awful, need too be sanded a round or 3. 800grit-1000g-1200g, dont think i can find a diffrence on just cutting it tho.
You can make it smoother by rotating slower after most has been cut off.
Where's Enid Lumley when you need her?
Are we going to need Techmoan on speeddial?
Why would we need Techmoan? He's deaf.
Techmoan has covered this device on his channel , with inconclusive results . Most of these tweaks are dependent on how good your hearing is in the first place , which for many just isn’t up to the task mine included. So we get into the territory of individual experience , if you think it does help then why not . I believe it was quite expensive to buy, so it was a lot of money to spend and not be impressed . But that can apply to a lot of things in life not just hifi 😂. Best wishes and kind regards
@@Kx110x in fairness Techmoan doesn't claim to have great hearing, neither is it an audiophile channel. I like the guy..... But I'd never accept any of his conclusions regarding hifi.
I think that Techmoan showed that there was no difference by showing the display for each file.
@@Thesimonwales Yip. He subtracted the before and after waveforms and got a flat line.
Techmoan did a video on this thing not too long ago, he didn't find any difference in measurement or sound for that matter, but he is a "normie" tech enthusiast, not an audiophile. I don't lean either direction on this, whether it's worth it or not, personally, I wouldn't bother tbh.
What about CD Mats I've heard that's they supposed to work
What do you think of them no!!
do the same thing put it in a drill with a bolt and with 800 grit wet and dry smooth the edge
I am sure one could make one using an angle grinder as a base... - to spin the CD not grind the edges that is....!
I remember an incredibly hostile review of this machine with science thrown in. It made me angry as it seemed to know without need to listen. When cdr came in some felt that the recording sounded better than the original and copies of copies better still. It was explained that better error correction might be happening.
Hilarious - Better to rip CDs to FLAC and hey presto! - CD Improver!
My BS-senses are working overtime, watching this.
No chance of catching you out eh? 😏
@@bigblueocean Never!
This product completely ignores the fact that the data track may not be pressed concentrically to the centre hole, so teimmingbthe edge makes bugger all difference to the action of the servo.
This might balance an off centre disc to reduce physical noise, but does nothing to improve disc reading.
Your astronomy analogy is weak a cd read lens accepts light only over a very narrow angle range, scatter really never gets a look in.
The green pen did indeed work. If anyone says it didn’t they never used it. I used it when it was available and it made a noticeable difference for the better. I know a lot more about the pen in a technical sense but I’m sure I’d get attacked by the people who never tried it and are deniers if I uttered a word about it. It is based in science not fairy dust.
So Phil is lying then, when he says he experimented with the green pen and found no effect? There is an interesting article - which you’ll find if you Google for “Mythbusting with Marlene: the green marker tweak”. It’s not what the title suggests and I think you’ll find it interesting. You might also be persuaded to moderate your views on other people’s experiences just because they differ from your own.
Could you not just use sand paper.
You try it and report back please Stephen.
Honestly after this video, I can't take anything you say seriously any more which is a shame, as I was really enjoying your content.
The green pen thing was always nonsense, but because it was cheap a lot of people tried it. The laser is so intense that a thin layer of green ink wouldn't absorb more than a tiny fraction of the scattered light. It was green pen because green ink will absorb red light.
You don’t know what you’re talking about plain and simple.
Did you try it Richard? Or do you just 'know'?
@@bigblueocean What are you suggesting? Anyhow, for your information, like many people back in the 90s, yes, I did try it - because the science behind it seems to make sense - until you do the sums that is. And like Phil I found no difference at all. No doubt his system was much more resolving than mine was at the time, but he reached the same conclusion.
@@richardsinger01 suggesting? Calm down dear. Its only hifi.....
@@josephfuller7008 ok, so educate me.