I also feel like accelerationism is a privileged strategy. Sure, maybe a cis white male like myself can survive until that revolutionary action happens, but can minorities? Is it worth their sacrifice? No.
Never forget that Kamala Harris is herself an accelerationist for catastrophic climate change and for genocide. Whoever taught liberals to use terms like tankie and accelerationist should bear a heavy burden on their conscience.
Correct. It doesn't matter if you don't like the options presented, if not voting increases the chance of electing a conservative government that will make life hell for the marginalised then go and vote. The lesser of the two evils is still better. Not voting is an endorsement of the status quo.
As a trans women who is now rushing to get their partner out of the USA I agree. If you are a leftists choosing to not vote or vote third party in the USA's current system you are doing so from a place of privilege or ignorance. Many are not gonna survive the next few years because of people's inaction.
Totally agree. I can understand people wanting it to happen, I kinda want to see the collapse of US imperialism sooner rather than later as well. But the communities that will be targeted are friends and family. Anyway, it happened. The American people voted for change, and it was a awful fascist change. I hate it, I wish it never happened, but I understand why it did.
Totally agree. Democrat and labour are centrist, not left. My major problem with accelerationism is you can only have that opinion if you're already relatively privileged. Tell the people already side lined and dying due to our current neoliberal capitalist system that "things need to get worse actually". Personally I think not voting is irresponsible as a leftist because the political pushback is important. It's not about changing the system, it's about mitigating the harm done as much as you can WHILE you are community organising and setting up localised systems of community support to replace the inadequate systems of government. I'm not just going to let it get worse so I can say "I told you so", real lives are at stake.
The issue I've always had with accelerationism is that such a method would result in measurable harm to marginalised folk. We need to organise if we want progress, and we need to do it in a way that our more vulnerable members of the community won't suffer. Yes, pacifism is a privilege, but so is equivocating two harmful options (where one is measurably more harmful). It is easier to organise against oppression - both global and local, when one's government isn't intending to violently crack down on political opposition.
I find it absolutely bizarre that people complain about individual voters in the US. Ranked choice voting has been banned in 11 states, and is barely used everywhere. That's insane shit, and i have absolutely no idea why that's not cause for mass mobilisation and anger due to lack of choice
I would say that most major "centre-left" parties in the West today are indeed just centrist parties. It started with the "third way" school of thought that came about in the Clinton/Blair/Hawke/Keating eras from the mid 80s to the late 90s. All they have really done is manage the slow decline of the working and middle class. I wouldn't call myself a Socialist and I believe that regulated markets are the best way to organise an economy, but that isn't what the centre does. The centre regulates the market in favour of the corporates and the land holders to make the playing field uneven. By your definition I wouldn't qualify as a leftist, but I definitely see myself as left of the ALP. I also would not necessarily group fascists and conservatives, though many people who claim to be conservatives are actually fascists whether they realise it or not. Thatcher was not a Fascist in my book and Trump is not a conservative. Making Nazis feel unwelcome is something we can all agree on.
A lot of 3rd party votes were no counted like in Ohio because the system in the USA is absolutely Fd. so the official numbers of 3rd parties are incorrect.
I'd just add that you oughta cite your sources when you're (more or less) quoting someone else's bangers - I mean, I think it's a fair assumption that most people watching this likely already know Audre Lorde, but let's give credit where it's due, yeah? Otherwise, spot on as usual!
I mean, within the confines of our beloved Australia, we are fortunate enough to have party preferencing. I'm given to believe you're running for the Senate, no? Marx wasn't opposed to voting from my meage understanding, but I don't think he'd suggest voting is all we should do. Yes organising is important. But I'm a bit older than you, sadly, and have achieved a lot less. However, I have been at least afforded the odd socialist candidate in (gasp) Queensland. Be it through the Greens, Socialist Alliance, etc. From a Representative Democracy perspective, I do believe that younger voters are disenfranchised, but if we let the fall to othering and subsequently fascism or give them a better alternative is the key of the issue. Btws, have you read articles from Simon Twomey?
Oh I’m for electoral politics etc, I just was explaining why some leftists are not and that I don’t begrudge them for it (I’m running for senate at the next election)
If you live in the USA, you know that voting anything over than Democrat or Republican then it's basically a wasted vote. Because 99% of the voting public will vote for one of those two parties. I mean, Harris or Trump? You might not like Harris, but if the alternative is Trump... then I would vote for anyone the Democrats put forward. That's just my view anyway. Leftists who didn't vote indirectly contributed to Trump winning. It's different in Australia because we have preferential voting.
You wouldn't consider social democrats as leftists? Because they aren't anti-capitalist? I can understand neoliberalism being considered centrist or even further right. But to not consider social democracy as centre-left, and therefore leftist, is wild to me.
There are countries still today where those not in power do not have the right to vote. Choosing not to vote is reliant on having the privilege to vote at all. People choosing not to vote honestly screams of first world privilege. It's pretty disgusting. Purposefully squandering this will literally lead us to what happened in the US. Literally all you need to do is show up. Vote how you want (informally or not), that's democracy. But ffs, of you can show up, show up and participate in a system that even some disadvantaged in Australia find it difficult to, especially those in remote communities. Not showing up to vote also sounds libertarian. I'm probably wrong there.
@Low760 yep, youre right- totally unconscionable and insane to not vote 'in protest' when so much is at stake. Not voting benefits the powerful, not us. I get your point about 'better than this guy', but the poor Dem campaign is to blame too- did it use 'We're not him' rhetoric? Don't know. In any case, not being Trump is not a policy. As a side note, where was everyone who cynically said 'I always knew it would be him' when the campaign started? What did they do to stop it? Matthew 27:24 '...wash my hands.' Dont wash your hands of guilt, cynics lol. Dont be Pilate Sorry, not blaming you. Totally on your side. Just ranting. Thanks for reading.
Not that I expect the vic socialists to win any elections, but what do yall expect to do if you did win some seats? (Asking cos I will be voting for yall regardless, fuck the majors)
I don't think it's a good idea to not vote, or convince yourself that it's right to not minimise harm. The socialists and other anti-capitalists in the USA (and Australia) are in the minority. If/when the right wing win elections and make things worse what are others who lean left going to think of you? They will resent you. This behaviour of avoiding truly engaging with elections does the opposite of grow the movement. In contrast if you do organise around elections and participate in "lesser evil" voting/campaigning in shitty systems such as First Past The Post you are at least meeting and cooperating with politically active people that might later be on *your* team in a labour strike, voting for a better viable candidate in a future election, disobedience against a fascist government, etc. You've increased the chance to radicalise liberals or get their support in other fights. Voting is quick, easy, and (contrary to the philosophy of some) does not have any bearing on the purity of your soul. It's just one strategic decision point in politics.
@@chipchunes9275 yeah. It's frustrating as something is better than nothing under capitalism. I'm depressed that change can't happen without massive change, but thanks to the media manufacturing consent the majority will never care for change. Example : Howard's battlers
I also feel like accelerationism is a privileged strategy. Sure, maybe a cis white male like myself can survive until that revolutionary action happens, but can minorities? Is it worth their sacrifice?
No.
Never forget that Kamala Harris is herself an accelerationist for catastrophic climate change and for genocide.
Whoever taught liberals to use terms like tankie and accelerationist should bear a heavy burden on their conscience.
Correct. It doesn't matter if you don't like the options presented, if not voting increases the chance of electing a conservative government that will make life hell for the marginalised then go and vote. The lesser of the two evils is still better. Not voting is an endorsement of the status quo.
I almost can't bear to think about how much worse things are going to get for trans kids
As a trans women who is now rushing to get their partner out of the USA I agree. If you are a leftists choosing to not vote or vote third party in the USA's current system you are doing so from a place of privilege or ignorance. Many are not gonna survive the next few years because of people's inaction.
Totally agree. I can understand people wanting it to happen, I kinda want to see the collapse of US imperialism sooner rather than later as well. But the communities that will be targeted are friends and family. Anyway, it happened. The American people voted for change, and it was a awful fascist change. I hate it, I wish it never happened, but I understand why it did.
Totally agree. Democrat and labour are centrist, not left. My major problem with accelerationism is you can only have that opinion if you're already relatively privileged. Tell the people already side lined and dying due to our current neoliberal capitalist system that "things need to get worse actually". Personally I think not voting is irresponsible as a leftist because the political pushback is important. It's not about changing the system, it's about mitigating the harm done as much as you can WHILE you are community organising and setting up localised systems of community support to replace the inadequate systems of government. I'm not just going to let it get worse so I can say "I told you so", real lives are at stake.
Jordan spitting for facts for 7 minutes and 38 seconds
The issue I've always had with accelerationism is that such a method would result in measurable harm to marginalised folk. We need to organise if we want progress, and we need to do it in a way that our more vulnerable members of the community won't suffer. Yes, pacifism is a privilege, but so is equivocating two harmful options (where one is measurably more harmful).
It is easier to organise against oppression - both global and local, when one's government isn't intending to violently crack down on political opposition.
I find it absolutely bizarre that people complain about individual voters in the US. Ranked choice voting has been banned in 11 states, and is barely used everywhere. That's insane shit, and i have absolutely no idea why that's not cause for mass mobilisation and anger due to lack of choice
Bang on!
and this is the problem with reducing politics to 2 directions
I would say that most major "centre-left" parties in the West today are indeed just centrist parties. It started with the "third way" school of thought that came about in the Clinton/Blair/Hawke/Keating eras from the mid 80s to the late 90s. All they have really done is manage the slow decline of the working and middle class.
I wouldn't call myself a Socialist and I believe that regulated markets are the best way to organise an economy, but that isn't what the centre does. The centre regulates the market in favour of the corporates and the land holders to make the playing field uneven. By your definition I wouldn't qualify as a leftist, but I definitely see myself as left of the ALP.
I also would not necessarily group fascists and conservatives, though many people who claim to be conservatives are actually fascists whether they realise it or not. Thatcher was not a Fascist in my book and Trump is not a conservative.
Making Nazis feel unwelcome is something we can all agree on.
A lot of 3rd party votes were no counted like in Ohio because the system in the USA is absolutely Fd.
so the official numbers of 3rd parties are incorrect.
I'd just add that you oughta cite your sources when you're (more or less) quoting someone else's bangers - I mean, I think it's a fair assumption that most people watching this likely already know Audre Lorde, but let's give credit where it's due, yeah? Otherwise, spot on as usual!
I mean, within the confines of our beloved Australia, we are fortunate enough to have party preferencing. I'm given to believe you're running for the Senate, no? Marx wasn't opposed to voting from my meage understanding, but I don't think he'd suggest voting is all we should do. Yes organising is important. But I'm a bit older than you, sadly, and have achieved a lot less. However, I have been at least afforded the odd socialist candidate in (gasp) Queensland. Be it through the Greens, Socialist Alliance, etc. From a Representative Democracy perspective, I do believe that younger voters are disenfranchised, but if we let the fall to othering and subsequently fascism or give them a better alternative is the key of the issue. Btws, have you read articles from Simon Twomey?
Back to Hasan videos. IFYKYK :D.
Oh I’m for electoral politics etc, I just was explaining why some leftists are not and that I don’t begrudge them for it (I’m running for senate at the next election)
@@purplepingers Yeah you are boi. Happiest thing I think I ever read. And I'm 40 and just bought a house.
@@purplepingers You're like one of my closest friends. Lawyer on 250K+ a year. She's still a marxist. Not that we do labels...
If you live in the USA, you know that voting anything over than Democrat or Republican then it's basically a wasted vote. Because 99% of the voting public will vote for one of those two parties.
I mean, Harris or Trump? You might not like Harris, but if the alternative is Trump... then I would vote for anyone the Democrats put forward.
That's just my view anyway. Leftists who didn't vote indirectly contributed to Trump winning.
It's different in Australia because we have preferential voting.
You wouldn't consider social democrats as leftists? Because they aren't anti-capitalist?
I can understand neoliberalism being considered centrist or even further right. But to not consider social democracy as centre-left, and therefore leftist, is wild to me.
There are countries still today where those not in power do not have the right to vote. Choosing not to vote is reliant on having the privilege to vote at all.
People choosing not to vote honestly screams of first world privilege. It's pretty disgusting.
Purposefully squandering this will literally lead us to what happened in the US.
Literally all you need to do is show up. Vote how you want (informally or not), that's democracy. But ffs, of you can show up, show up and participate in a system that even some disadvantaged in Australia find it difficult to, especially those in remote communities.
Not showing up to vote also sounds libertarian. I'm probably wrong there.
Choosing not to vote in protest seems insane to me if it means this current result. No they weren't going to help but it's better than this guy.
@Low760 yep, youre right- totally unconscionable and insane to not vote 'in protest' when so much is at stake. Not voting benefits the powerful, not us. I get your point about 'better than this guy', but the poor Dem campaign is to blame too- did it use 'We're not him' rhetoric? Don't know. In any case, not being Trump is not a policy.
As a side note, where was everyone who cynically said 'I always knew it would be him' when the campaign started? What did they do to stop it? Matthew 27:24 '...wash my hands.' Dont wash your hands of guilt, cynics lol. Dont be Pilate
Sorry, not blaming you. Totally on your side. Just ranting. Thanks for reading.
Not that I expect the vic socialists to win any elections, but what do yall expect to do if you did win some seats? (Asking cos I will be voting for yall regardless, fuck the majors)
I don't think it's a good idea to not vote, or convince yourself that it's right to not minimise harm.
The socialists and other anti-capitalists in the USA (and Australia) are in the minority. If/when the right wing win elections and make things worse what are others who lean left going to think of you? They will resent you. This behaviour of avoiding truly engaging with elections does the opposite of grow the movement.
In contrast if you do organise around elections and participate in "lesser evil" voting/campaigning in shitty systems such as First Past The Post you are at least meeting and cooperating with politically active people that might later be on *your* team in a labour strike, voting for a better viable candidate in a future election, disobedience against a fascist government, etc. You've increased the chance to radicalise liberals or get their support in other fights.
Voting is quick, easy, and (contrary to the philosophy of some) does not have any bearing on the purity of your soul. It's just one strategic decision point in politics.
No Leftists are people with a social conscience
Then I could argue parts of Labor policy are for social conscience. Even if they also do things against the worker.
@@Low760 I'm comfortable with the way you put it,yes!
this is exactly what he’s talking about in the video, definition revisionism.
@@chipchunes9275 yeah. It's frustrating as something is better than nothing under capitalism. I'm depressed that change can't happen without massive change, but thanks to the media manufacturing consent the majority will never care for change. Example : Howard's battlers