If there's enough support, then all 'we' needs to do is fork all the os tech we want to develop .. I'm not saying it's going to be easy.. but.. there will come a time, we may have no choice.. Otherwise the sector will be torn apart...
You know, sometimes these corpos are just gonna ruin their reputation, not even I can trust Mozilla, not even their browser or their email client, find alternatives and just learn the past mistakes if you become a software developer, that's one thing.
lulz... linux biggest contributors literally huawei workers, russians ,east europeans go look at the contribution lists : ) lmao... east europeans,russians and chinese sh ould just fork linux and make their own less buggy kernel ;] american gov sure showed them russian putinists! who gave free labour! :)) so owned :DDDD
@@iiisaac1312that is an interesting question as well how many steps removed can there be to not trigger the law? Epic Games is technically a tech company based in North Carolina but a controlling holder of their stocks is owned by tencent.
Linus 2024: "I'm Finnish, of course I never wanted to have any business with Russians" Linus 2025: "I'm an American, of course I never wanted to have any business with the Chinese"
At this rate. I will cynically have to predict that Linus needs to embed malware, in order to preemptively destroy russian and now, Chinese technology.
Did he support his government for supporting the nazis in world war 2? Does he accept German patches? I always found hilarious how he always insults people, but I wonder if he has the balls to do it in person. He is a geek after all, there are places were they mangle you for less than an insult, but I guess he is pretty safe being toxic in his little bubble.
@@filiphron3147 "They could" saids that half of the drivers stop updating for big business since three weeks ago as the last one of them cut ties with russians. I had a financial system in the corporate I work for that had a very important transaction mission handled by linux-based OS running on some obscure hardwares that no longer manufactured and be mission critical for 90% of worldwide operation, it supposed to have updates every three days apart, the updates stopped appearing since December 16th, the higher ups had been very nervous about that and started to pull every string to try get them back. You don't know how bad the situation is. Everything is falling apart in the back-end.
@@filiphron3147We don't need a Linux fork, that would achieve nothing. We need a microkernel based Linux replacement. This is the technical debt of the FOSS world catching up with the political situation. All these companies have their own Linux forks internally anyways. We wouldn't need all these companies directly involved if not for all drivers having to be directly integrated into the monolithic structure of the kernel.
@@matthewstott3493 Maybe they weren't, still I'd like to see all those people who were justifying the ban of Russian programmers doing their mental gymnastics now.
Something like: "Chinese programmers program the concentration camps used to genocide the poor weegers. They are human animals, they don't deserve your pity." Followed by comments like: "Well it's true" Ww2 ended less than 100 years ago, that's pretty much yesterday. It's just that it took a few generations to realize we didn't learn anything.
Good luck loosing out the largest coder base out there, you do realize that east asian coders are the actual back bone of everything since 1996, right? Let see when you lost both Russian and Chinese coder than. Almost every innovation in the last four decades are from either chinese immigrant tech workers or russian professional math scientist that had to apply for bare minimum salary after Soviet union collapsed, do the west even had enough people to do their work to compete? Don't tell me you people would use the indians, we all saw what happened when you hire them in bunch.
@@Saviliana They will hire a million of Indians to replace the lost crew! The ls command will then start to require 500mb of RAM to display the list of files.
Trademarks, copyright, US incorporated foundation etc... so no, no chance. Not enough people want that anyway. If enough contributors wanted it, they could always fork the code base and change the names etc... but not Linux as it exists now. The Linux Foundation would have to voluntarily relocate to another country and they aren't gonna do that...
Linux was Linus's toy, till he took US Citizenship, founded a US based charitable Foundation, accepted much free IBM / Red Hat stock, ... , to make it US toy that's subject to the whim of the US Congress.
@santoshk1983 This is mostly wrong. It's once again based on the misleading claim that the Linux foundation would somehow own Linux. It's just a supportive organization.
@@metatechnologist Meh, those backdoors are shoddily made and don't even work. Only the Western government agencies know how to insert the top quality backdoors and conceal them properly
Not necessarily, simply because Linux underpins so much of the internat. If the Linux Foundation refuses to play along, the DoD would be in such a hole of rebuilding that honestly, the DoD has more to lose in the short term.
You're wrong. Huawei etc can still work on Linux. The Linux foundation can't work with them, but they can merrily fork and carry on. The non-US linux fork can use code from anywhere, the US fork can't. Long term the result is inevitable.
@@Microphunktv-jb3kj hope you don't use anything powered by ARM chips that are not Ampere, because if you do all that comes from China directly or indirectly like support for the Rockchip, Mediatek, etc SoCs
I'm opposed to FOSS "foundations" doing business with any big companies, let alone state-owned companies. I don't like the ban though, government involvement never ends well, but I'm more concerned that a ban would be necessary at all.
The monolithic structure of the Linux kernel means this level of cooperation is vital. This is an example of the technical debt of the FOSS world catching up to the political situation.
When China and Russia will fork Linux and publish changes on their own git, will they be able to pull in the charges? Because if they will then who cares? And if they won't it's their loss... This may actually reduce the bureaucratic drag on Russia and China and speed up their development..
The internet itself will get walled off at that point. The US sees China and Rus as existential adversaries. They'll go to any extent. We'll have a Sino-Rus internet and a "Western" "freedom-loving" Internet and rest of the countries will get the same slogan "if you're not with us, you're against us, so choose carefully... most will choose to join the Western Internet.
If if they did, appliances (routers, TV's, machinery, hard disks, PCs, what have you) that contained traces of this software would be prohibited from being sold in the West. Effectively this could imply the end of the global high tech market. For Western consumers, but also industrial commerce, this would mean huge price surges.
yeah, it is chinese law that every company with more than like 11 employees must have a commissar on staff: a representative of the CCP who answers only to the CCP and ensures compliance with all CCP wishes. The PLA is not the national army of China, it is the army of the CCP, which is very different than almost every other country in the world and something that people often get confused about. It is not an exaggeration to say that almost every single Chinese company is beholden to the Chinese military. The only exceptions are very VERY small companies, which typically cannot export anyway.
Did you live in China or at least once tried to get unbiased view on live there? Did you hear about special CNN color filters which makes life in any "dictatorship" country bleak and post-apocalyptic because they don't trust you, they have to shove forcefully that view into your throat. But looks like they succeed.
All major US corporations are also affiliated with the government one way or the other. By that logic the entire world should ban Google and Facebook and others from operating in their countries in any way
Us companies can legally be run by anyone allowed to be there. All Chinese companies have to have ccp loyalists on the board and have to obey Chinese gov orders, no questions, no disputes, no public disclosure. Us gov orders can be legally disputed.
How a NATION is held by a people that are making money out of it and having patriots do a lot of work. Or is Linux more a Religion? Free Speech is bigger than both. A system where nobody requires your concern is one done right.
I don't have a problem with companies investing in and using open source. I have a huge issue with the government telling anyone who they can and can't work with. The government's job is protecting its people, not controlling them
clearly not foss it's American Source , not Open Source , americans don't know what Open even means .. only when their politician puppets on their knees opening their mouth. baffles me how americans think politicians run their country, not the mentally ill cult in silicon valley and "deep state" and alphabet agencies, like cia nsa etc... nothing says more democratic country, than gov unable to investigate their own agencies looool
The ecosystem moves forward, shaped not by the old titan’s efforts to preserve its dominance, but by the forces of change and the resilience of those ready to adapt.
Does partly owned by Tencent also mean making business with them? Tencent assets: Company - share Activision Blizzard - 5 % Epic Games - 48 % Frontier Development - 7,5 % Funcom - 100 % Grinding Gear Games - 80 % JD dot C om - 18,1 % Mail dot R u - 7,4 % Paradox Interactive - 5 % Riot Games - 100 % Supercell - 84 % Snapchat - 12,1 % Spotify - 7,5 % Tesla - 5 % Ubisoft - 9,9 % Dontnod Entertainment - 23 % Digital Extremes - 100 % Yager Development - N/A Sumo Digital - 100 % Klei Entertainment - N/A Bloober Team - 22 % Stunlock Studios -
@@acmhfmggru They own a piece of some Japenese devs. too sadly. They own a piece of Platinum and maybe Marvelouw. Had no idea about Sumo, that really pisses me off. I am surprised the bill doesn't target Netease either but then again Tencent is more visible in all the places they have thrown their money. Netease either outright owns or has David Cage's studio and a number of others that are more prominent albeit not the big ones on the block.
The linux foundation doesn't spend a high proportion on linux and related software. However the linux foundation still has great influence: it owns the trademarks and pays the lead developer.
Why is this a thing? Unlike with microsoft, the code is open for review. If people try to slip something malicious into the kernel, a lot of eyes are on that thing daily. The attack vectors state actors might use are all the undermaintained smaller programs most of the ecosystem are built on, not anything the Linux Foundation has direct control over.
The State control of their pocket of the internet is the future. Think Cyberpunk and the black wall. But it's all different States bordering each other and trying to expand/overwrite each other.
@@xlerb1637it's open source, of China wants to know how Linux works the source code is publicly available, nothing is stopping them. For closed source projects it makes some sense, you don't want hostile powers inserting code with exploits and such, and you don't want certain software to be available to them, but for open source projects it doesn't make any sense.
@@benjaminsmith3843 So why don't you talk about the XZ compression library vulnerability from 9 months ago? You know, the one that apparently Jia Tan seems to have slipped into the OPEN SOURCE code without anyone noticing.
1:30 Just going by that logic, and by the chinese government PR statements, literally every medium to large manufacturer in China is therefore a military company as they are mandated to plan with the military a contingency plan for economic mobilization.
All chinese companies are legally required to comply with CCP requests, be that providing data, financial and/or behavioral support. In other words, ALL chinese companies are Government assets in reserve.
Tencent has been insisting the companies they have stock in apply DEI standards. The stocks then fall, and they buy up all the rest. Going on right now at Ubisoft.
The possibility that a Trojan horse somehow gets built into the software is the problem they are trying to avoid / solve. The nationalities that are most likely to embed a Trojan that would undermine the US military are the ones being excluded. Whether that is political or nationalistic is a matter of opinion, and it could actually be both simultaneously.
@@stevebabiak6997 On the flip side, this makes it much easier for US military/interests to the the ones embedding the trojan... I'm divided on this. I don't like the censorship and it seems like a slippery slope that they are already sliding down, but I also don't like the situation like where xz was hijacked by chinese state programmers...
More years ago than I care to contemplate I ran a small software company. We regularly received requests to bid from certain government entities. After a couple of years, I would just file the requests in File 13 as a bit of bookkeeping showed that we were spending more on compliance than our margin. I cannot conceive of trying to deal with the Feds today. But then, I'm an old curmudgeon.
This is a mess, but as long as the US has a policy of banning business with countries they decide to sanction, that's going to be like this. It's unavoidable. Either make US change, or have the Linux Foundation leave the US.
When that country is one that does largely operate in the open market (Russia), you have a point. When you have one that closes off internally and expects everyone else to open up to them so they can siphon knowledge from you, not so much.
As someone who once knew the Gates family personally, I can tell you that their goal is to end free software entirely. When Microsoft joined the board of the Linux Foundation, that was the beginning of the end. They want to force everyone to use their mammoth bloatware programs and pay a monthly fee for the privilege. It has been several decades since I installed Red Star Linux on a spare laptop for laughs. It was a good working version of linux. The Chinese do not need our help. The only possible result of this ill advised directive is a hard fork in the kernel. The center of development will move away from the United States.
@@Axctal Except many opensource projects are also getting money. Maybe not from politicians. I don't see Linux going anywhere. Plus, the US isn't the world.
@tristen_grant lots of stuff (routers/switches/servers/etc) is running Linux or some variant. Can you imagine MS "hijacking" this base by legislative caveat? Way more important and lucrative than any PC market.
At least for the Open Source Community there should be an exception. I mean the entire point of Open Source is that you have access to the source and can see what the other ones are doing. But I am really interested to see how it turns out for gaming. It could lead to Tencent having to sell all shares regarding Gaming and Tech that they have and their games getting delisted from Xbox/Windows-Store and the Epic Games Launcher. Could be really disruptive if this holds.
I guess it will not happen. Politicians are just playing games to gain favor. A really large portion of consumers will be affected if they cut chinese companies off in the way you say it.
About 9 months ago there was the XZ compression library vulnerability, where a backdoor was put into the widely-used open source code, apparently by a guy named Jia Tan, and nobody noticed until that guy from Postgres just happened to be profiling the code.
Why have an exception? The current president has made sanctions work for once, we should all be happy to see it. The next guy's bait and switch on immigration makes it more important for biden to get protections in place before his current term ends.
But then china would retaliate and a lot of western game companies have a huge presence in China (Epic games ,Riot games ) . For some even it's the main market .
@@xlerb1637 Yes, over Thanksgiving vacation too. If that dev didn't notice the performance change in SSH it very likely would have reached most distributions which use the tarball. NixOS uses the source instead and I guess GUIX as well. Supply chain attacks are a big threat. Jia Tan put the malware inside test image files. Literally broken into chunks and stuffed inside a JPEG/PDF. The technical review of what it did and how it worked was really really sneaky. At no point was the malware inside the source code. Only the binary image files in the test suite. Then they would alter the tarballs having injected the malware into them. We have to diligently scan all source code with expensive tools to ensure we don't get hit by a supply chain attack. I'm talking about Node.js packages, etc.
No need for that, if it's generally believed the government is wrong in this, all can be fixed when no company is willing to deal with US DOD. In reality, the government is probably just trying to eliminate all free or open source software from government computers and that will not cut into the profits of companies that only provide proprietary software, so they will happily comply, at a price.
Sheesh... Someone please tell the US gov the definition of Open Source. It makes sure that regardless of where you come from, malicious code won't be added without anyone seeing it. Secondly, not only does the workload increase for those who remain, those kicked out STILL have access to the work from Open Source projects. See how silly this is?
@@SterileNeutrino Maybe having spyware in the kernel of millions of gamers around the world is no big deal... Politicians and influential people also have children who play...
Apparently that name was much too approachable, I just looked up the same house bill H.R. 5009 (including the same section) and it's now named "To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2025 for military activities of the Department of Defense, for military construction, and for defense activities of the Department of Energy, to prescribe military personnel strengths for such fiscal year, and for other purposes." Also, i'm amused that the bill authorizing appropriations for 2025 was first introduced in July 2023, that's some efficient speedy work there from your elected congress. On the text of the law itself, I think the part you're pointing to is actually a nothingburger in disguise. (Note: For the purpose of this analysis i'm going to assume that the only possible thing that could be bad about Huawei/Tencent being on the LF board is this law, that no other law is triggered by a Chinese Military Company being on the board of the Linux Foundation) The thing I think the thing you're missing is that this *isn't* prohibiting the DOD from interacting with Chinese military companies(hereafter CMCs). It's also not banning the DOD from interacting with entities who are interacting with CMCs. What it's doing is prohibiting the DOD from interacting with entities that interact with entities that LOBBY for CMCs. It then extends that prohibition to entities that have subsidiaries or parent entities that contract with entities that lobby for CMCs. So if DOD is interacting with IBM or MS and they are interacting with the Linux Foundation (LF) then that's not at issue because (presumably) LF is not lobbying for a CMC. So what about LF directly? That would depend on whether Huawei or Tencent are lobbying on behalf of themself. Just focusing on Huawei, they *were* lobbyists but stopped in early 2024. TL;DR - This law is specifically about lobbyists so either Huawei/Tencent is already a problem (e.g. because they're a CMC) or it's not a problem. I don't see this law adding anything new to the picture.
Well, Android basically has been forked and has better performance in term of Harmony OS (from Huawei). If we can say specific linux OS, China at least has made it for NK (which basically they have 1000% their own linux distribution). This means basically... well... you can just say goodbye to all cheap IOT/embedded system (which you can install the OS yourself) as there will be no one (unless volunteer) to write the driver for it.
I get the feeling this stuff is why a micro-kernel like RedoxOS is actually a better design for the community. If a Russian team is working on a driver, it doesn't matter if they can't work on the core because it is minimal and separate from their code. Same for Chinese developers. Or for any other nationality that the US government suddenly decides to punish.
Remember a couple weeks ago with the XZ compromise? The existence of cross-cutting ubiquitous utilities like that is a problem that micro-kernel design cannot address. I don't have a better solution and I'm not crazy about this blanket banning by nationality stuff, but I do recognize that there is a deep problem here.
Hardware needs to be separated. Without that the s/w doesn't matter. US should not source anything except basic raw materials from adversaries while said adversaries should do the same. Completely separate chips, PCBs, systems, software and wall off the internet too while you're at it.
This one, I agree with. ALL Chinese companies are beholden to and partially owned by the CCP. Huawei is already known to backdoor its hardware. Don't confuse investment with ownership.
@@SpookyAlien-2001 I'm sure everyone does... when they're the country of origin. There are some countries I'd rather not have snooping in what are supposed to be our secure affairs.
I would like Linus to follow this law to letter, sending cease-and-desist letter not only to Tencent, but to all the companies, which stocks are owned by Tencent, including Epic Games, Activision Blizzard, Snapchat, Tesla Motors and Riot Games. This would surely be helpful for an ordinary American.
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Foreign companies are required to partner with a Chinese company in order to operate in China. These regulations facilitated Tencent to have access to a range of companies in order to exchange for the large Chinese markets. The CCP is in bed with companies to facilitate those transactions.
the US government is playing with in a warehouse full of TNT in the heart of a city, that City is the global economy. consequences of HR5009: shattering the Linux foundation and many other foundations that deal with FOSS, then without the Linux foundation, Linux then falls, potentially crippling vital infrastructure that depends on Linux. the fall of multiple pieces of infrastructure causes entire supply chains to fail. the failure of multiple supply chains then causes massive disruptions to the global economy that can't be recovered from. the global economy falls leading to a depression that could be worse than the 1930s.
Just the fact Linux kernel is open-source makes no sense; Anyone could literally just copy-past the kernel and name it with a new name pretending it's not Linux like Android low-key did
I really don't understand why the government has a say on open source projects. Everyone can fork it, everyone can copy and modify it, so what's the point of removing all the Russians and Chinese from the project ? There could be other contributors presenting them as Americans but in reality are from Russia... so, again, what's the point ?
While the Russian government and CCP are bad news, most open source developers are apolitical and just want to make great code. Never judge a people, or anyone, by their government.
The guys from other nations will either give up or band together to make their own os from the forks until this law is somehow bypassed, add what you thi:k might be otherwise
I love how this entire trend is not only American paranoia and russophobia, but also a show of pure incompetence from rulemakers. You know what you do when you distrust open source software? You hire reviewers, and you compile from source. The DoD could hire specialists to do that and offer a "DoD-certified Linux kernel repo". It'd be significantly cheaper than turning the entire software sector of (what's left of) the globalized economy upside down. In their misguided, desperate efforts to avoid getting downgraded from sole global hegemon to major global power, the USA is instead speedrunning their way into a mere regional power. And I don't think their diplomatic corps know how to play the one-amongst-peers role.
There's nothing American about these trends. America was founded on classic liberalism, and up until recently, that was the core philosophy. These Marxist wannabes have turned both the US and Canada into tyranical fascist states.
You are just transferring the problem onto supposed specialists though. What is stopping adversary nations from doing the same thing, but trying to out-fox the fox-hunters? It becomes an arms race, and in this situation the attacker always has the advantage, since they only need to get lucky once whereas the defender needs to block attacks every time or they've failed. It just can't scale to the degree that it needs to. That's not to say that I think this politicization of FOSS and blanket banning by nationality is a good idea, I just recognize that this is a really tricky situation and there isn't a quick-fix or engineering solution that will address the underlying real politics. As for your doom and gloom outlook for USA: lol, yeah, sure, whatever you say.
I was under the impression that open source projects, in general, are beyond any governments and considered a common asset of the entire human civilization?
Who gave you that impression? Seriously. Open source projects aren't a monolith, they all have their own licenses with different rules. They are not "considered a common asset of the entire human civilization", that has no basis in law or license.
@@acmhfmggru I said "in general". When people talk about "open source" they immediately assume "you can fork it". This is because most open source projects are licensed in a way that's pretty "open".
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Dumb military machine chooses simplest and dumb solution to their problems. It would be 100% sufficient to just mandate all communications between Linux and those companies to be public, trivial and easy.
Please don't make this into some clickbait. Explain it correctly at the beginning. That foundation supports the development of the Kernel. It does not control the Kernel. So, people working on it could just be supported by someone else. It's necessary to make that support for the developers more decentralized.
Here in Russia many laws are deliberately adopted with the most vague interpretations, apparently to simply have the maximum number of levers of pressure on society and individuals. All laws adopted after the start of the war are like that.
This is similar to the destruction of the Tower of Babel, which resulted in God scrambling the language of the citizens, resulting in an inability to communicate.
Limiting the influence of corporations that are known to make spyware and malware for their government -- as is the case here with Tencent and apparently also Huawei -- seems rather different than outright banning developers simply because they're Russian.
Interesting. Wonder how this will impact SteamOS given TenCent makes games and Steam likes selling them (naturally). Hmm... and EVE Online given TenCent's investment in CCP games.
I guess I don't understand this correcty, but I'll make this suggestion anyway. If the Linux Foundation is forced to choose between Department of Defense contracts and Tencent and Huawei related work, why not just abandon the Defense contracts? Or do I not understand the Biden executive order correctly?
@@acmhfmggru "weeks"? You mean months ago. How do you know they were actually Chinese or affiliated with China? Could've been CIA for all we know. And that backdoor wasn't even something cunning that can be written off as bug, just a hidden injection allowed by the lack of people who understand the code and have time to look over new commits. This probably could've been avoided even by making the core of that library a separate piece independent of the platform, thus making different people responsible for different things in a clean way. Nothing like that could've passed my code review. Unless I understand every line of the code, it's not going into the master branch.
@@acmhfmggru I never said that, I constantly make mistakes. That's why I go over everything several times. And since I started doing code reviews, the project I was working on no longer had constant new bugs, and things that were overlooked were easy to pinpoint and fix in no time, and people working on it stated to gain a better understanding of what they're doing. There's nothing hard in making sure you understand things you're working on, it just requires time and a certain mindset through which you understand that time spent doing great work will greatly pay off in the long term.
@@the_original_dude errors like that will always crop up, but you are right that it wasn't the hack of the century by any stretch of the imagination. Nothing a mafia hacker wouldn't be able to do given some time.
Knowing the CCP. I’m not that against this. They are that bad. So is their control, which is undeniable, in Hauwei and Tencent. I’m cautious on the details.
Yea, I agree 100%. Any company of any size is a minion of the CCP and the CCP is a real threat to us all. Also Russia is a real treat to the West, whether you like it or not.
Any time I mention that group my comments get removed, so just suffice it to say I agree completely. They're bad news and have their tendrils in everything.
It really doesn't make any sense for open source projects. China can still access the code, it's publicly available, and they can't hide anything in it for long as again, the source is public, any exploits or backdoors will be discovered and removed. Chinese and Russian programmers can still contribute as well, they just have to launder the updates through a third party, which is mildly annoying but not hard with an open source project. For closed source systems it makes sense, but it is cutting your nose to spite your face with open source.
I mean, the Linux Foundation is already fixing this. By 2026 it will no longer support Linux related activities.
True lol. Same as Mozilla. It'll no longer be a software organisation
If there's enough support, then all 'we' needs to do is fork all the os tech we want to develop .. I'm not saying it's going to be easy.. but.. there will come a time, we may have no choice..
Otherwise the sector will be torn apart...
You know, sometimes these corpos are just gonna ruin their reputation, not even I can trust Mozilla, not even their browser or their email client, find alternatives and just learn the past mistakes if you become a software developer, that's one thing.
@@PoetofHateSpeechIt no longer is. "Activists", they call themselves now.
@@cdgonepotatoes4219 That's why people can't understand the left. Ideology is more important than anything to them
US Govt: It’s my way or the Huawei
I read that in Fred Durst voice. LOl
😂
Funny! :)
lulz...
linux biggest contributors literally huawei workers, russians ,east europeans
go look at the contribution lists : )
lmao... east europeans,russians and chinese sh ould just fork linux and make their own less buggy kernel ;]
american gov sure showed them russian putinists! who gave free labour! :)) so owned :DDDD
good luck US running their DOD tech on Windows Server then :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Does that mean that Microsoft cannot have a game that involves Tencent on their Xbox game pass?
Oops, there goes all the UE5 games!
@@iiisaac1312that is an interesting question as well how many steps removed can there be to not trigger the law? Epic Games is technically a tech company based in North Carolina but a controlling holder of their stocks is owned by tencent.
@@iiisaac1312 Tencent has a pretty tiny share of epic so I doubt this would be an issue. Tim Sweeney is still the majority share holder
@@gwentarinokripperinolkjdsf683 "35% is pretty tiny" 🙄🙄🙄
AAFES can't sell Tencent games?
Linus 2024: "I'm Finnish, of course I never wanted to have any business with Russians"
Linus 2025: "I'm an American, of course I never wanted to have any business with the Chinese"
Linus 2026: "I'm a Republican, of course I never wanted to have any business with the Democrats"
Linus -> Proud user of FiddleOS.
At this rate. I will cynically have to predict that Linus needs to embed malware, in order to preemptively destroy russian and now, Chinese technology.
Give that man a break. He got brainwashed. He can be fixed through re-education of how Germans were re-educated after WWII.
Did he support his government for supporting the nazis in world war 2? Does he accept German patches? I always found hilarious how he always insults people, but I wonder if he has the balls to do it in person. He is a geek after all, there are places were they mangle you for less than an insult, but I guess he is pretty safe being toxic in his little bubble.
They brought this on themselves with how quickly and gleefully they threw the Russians under the bus without so much as a "sorry" or "thank you".
Yes, that was test if they can get away with it. Since they could, why not reach further. We need Linux fork.
Were they given a choice? Or was it an offer they couldn't refuse?
@@filiphron3147 "They could" saids that half of the drivers stop updating for big business since three weeks ago as the last one of them cut ties with russians. I had a financial system in the corporate I work for that had a very important transaction mission handled by linux-based OS running on some obscure hardwares that no longer manufactured and be mission critical for 90% of worldwide operation, it supposed to have updates every three days apart, the updates stopped appearing since December 16th, the higher ups had been very nervous about that and started to pull every string to try get them back. You don't know how bad the situation is. Everything is falling apart in the back-end.
@@filiphron3147We don't need a Linux fork, that would achieve nothing. We need a microkernel based Linux replacement. This is the technical debt of the FOSS world catching up with the political situation. All these companies have their own Linux forks internally anyways. We wouldn't need all these companies directly involved if not for all drivers having to be directly integrated into the monolithic structure of the kernel.
@@matthewstott3493 Maybe they weren't, still I'd like to see all those people who were justifying the ban of Russian programmers doing their mental gymnastics now.
is Linus T. going rage rant against chinese programmers?
Something like: "Chinese programmers program the concentration camps used to genocide the poor weegers. They are human animals, they don't deserve your pity."
Followed by comments like: "Well it's true"
Ww2 ended less than 100 years ago, that's pretty much yesterday. It's just that it took a few generations to realize we didn't learn anything.
You betcha we're going to be Chinese trolls if we say how stupid it is.
Good luck loosing out the largest coder base out there, you do realize that east asian coders are the actual back bone of everything since 1996, right? Let see when you lost both Russian and Chinese coder than. Almost every innovation in the last four decades are from either chinese immigrant tech workers or russian professional math scientist that had to apply for bare minimum salary after Soviet union collapsed, do the west even had enough people to do their work to compete? Don't tell me you people would use the indians, we all saw what happened when you hire them in bunch.
@@Saviliana Well they can still have the Indians
@@Saviliana They will hire a million of Indians to replace the lost crew! The ls command will then start to require 500mb of RAM to display the list of files.
Can we decouple Linux from the US govnt ? It goes against everything linux is standing for.
This is what the video should have been about. I guess, for starters, a lot would depend on Linus.
@@NoidoDevLinus proved himself an imperialist lapdog.
Trademarks, copyright, US incorporated foundation etc... so no, no chance. Not enough people want that anyway. If enough contributors wanted it, they could always fork the code base and change the names etc... but not Linux as it exists now. The Linux Foundation would have to voluntarily relocate to another country and they aren't gonna do that...
Linux was Linus's toy, till he took US Citizenship, founded a US based charitable Foundation, accepted much free IBM / Red Hat stock, ... , to make it US toy that's subject to the whim of the US Congress.
@santoshk1983 This is mostly wrong. It's once again based on the misleading claim that the Linux foundation would somehow own Linux. It's just a supportive organization.
Old enough to remember the battle over encryption technology exports.
im young enough to look at those export laws in the 90s and 2000s when I was installing Ubuntu only to see the popups.
Someone doesn't need to worry about encryption when they have a Chinese back door available!
@@metatechnologist Meh, those backdoors are shoddily made and don't even work. Only the Western government agencies know how to insert the top quality backdoors and conceal them properly
@@metatechnologistif the internet has taught me anything, if theres a hole it should be plugged with something. 😏
Yuuup
Repeat after me : Your markets are free.
and you live in a society. There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
June 3 1989 Tiananmen Square
Hard forks are inevitable
Very hard, we are going to see new licensing outright.
The Govt has TLF by its nuts and TLF has Linus by his nuts. It's nuts all over.
And Linus has Russian contributors by their nuts too.
Linus is a dick, but I don't think he have nuts. It's kinda against Code of Conduct.
nuts all the way down.
Not necessarily, simply because Linux underpins so much of the internat. If the Linux Foundation refuses to play along, the DoD would be in such a hole of rebuilding that honestly, the DoD has more to lose in the short term.
@@ravenbarsrepairs5594 they're already playing along and getting woke. This is the stupidest time to be alive.
You're wrong. Huawei etc can still work on Linux. The Linux foundation can't work with them, but they can merrily fork and carry on. The non-US linux fork can use code from anywhere, the US fork can't. Long term the result is inevitable.
You have to have a password to work or do anything with the Kernel. You can read it, just can't do anything with it LOL
Things are about to get very, very expensive
Thanks, Mr. Dink.
because of removing chinese contrubitors from linux kernel, wich is 3% of contributions?
luls... what lala land are u living in ?
@@Microphunktv-jb3kjhow naive you are 😅
@@Microphunktv-jb3kj hope you don't use anything powered by ARM chips that are not Ampere, because if you do all that comes from China directly or indirectly like support for the Rockchip, Mediatek, etc SoCs
2025 will be the year of BSD on desktop
Do you mean FreeBSD or OpenBSD?
@12semitones57 freeBSD
@@12semitones57 to be fair, both are good enough for Desktop, both have either less politics (FreeBSD) or no politics (OpenBSD)
Or NetBSD or DragonflyBSD
*BSD
Dam forcing chinese talent to now start working on Open Harmony.
There's no such thing as 'chinese talent'. They steal everything.
I'm opposed to FOSS "foundations" doing business with any big companies, let alone state-owned companies. I don't like the ban though, government involvement never ends well, but I'm more concerned that a ban would be necessary at all.
The monolithic structure of the Linux kernel means this level of cooperation is vital. This is an example of the technical debt of the FOSS world catching up to the political situation.
"Keep your friends rich and your enemies rich, and wait to find out which is which."
-Tony Stark
Ultron*
@siz1700 It was Tony Stark actually. I hate to be that guy. Klaue even says "you're one of Stark's" before Ultron cuts his arm off.
When China and Russia will fork Linux and publish changes on their own git, will they be able to pull in the charges? Because if they will then who cares? And if they won't it's their loss...
This may actually reduce the bureaucratic drag on Russia and China and speed up their development..
The internet itself will get walled off at that point. The US sees China and Rus as existential adversaries. They'll go to any extent. We'll have a Sino-Rus internet and a "Western" "freedom-loving" Internet and rest of the countries will get the same slogan "if you're not with us, you're against us, so choose carefully... most will choose to join the Western Internet.
HAAAAA!!!!!!
They already did, a long time ago.
If if they did, appliances (routers, TV's, machinery, hard disks, PCs, what have you) that contained traces of this software would be prohibited from being sold in the West. Effectively this could imply the end of the global high tech market. For Western consumers, but also industrial commerce, this would mean huge price surges.
Companies affiliated with the Chinese Military? Do you have any Idea how little that narrows it down?
Well, I have some idea, because they wrote down a list.
If you believe anything CNN tells you then yes.
It is basically everyone. Dual use. From shoe manufacturers to take away's.
yeah, it is chinese law that every company with more than like 11 employees must have a commissar on staff: a representative of the CCP who answers only to the CCP and ensures compliance with all CCP wishes. The PLA is not the national army of China, it is the army of the CCP, which is very different than almost every other country in the world and something that people often get confused about. It is not an exaggeration to say that almost every single Chinese company is beholden to the Chinese military. The only exceptions are very VERY small companies, which typically cannot export anyway.
@@acmhfmggru source?
This year is going to be an interesting year for the open-source community.
There's people that believe we live in a free capitalist society. Imagine that.
Of course we don't, every single country in the world has tariffs on the United states.
They just banned eggs in several states.
They confuse capitalism with corporatism.
@mruziicak they WHAT
None society wants you to become wise
5:00 trying to find a company in china not affiliated with the CCP and the military this is like looking for a company that does not follow the law.
Did you live in China or at least once tried to get unbiased view on live there? Did you hear about special CNN color filters which makes life in any "dictatorship" country bleak and post-apocalyptic because they don't trust you, they have to shove forcefully that view into your throat. But looks like they succeed.
All major US corporations are also affiliated with the government one way or the other. By that logic the entire world should ban Google and Facebook and others from operating in their countries in any way
how's that different than in US?
@TheYehat how is it similar to the US?
Us companies can legally be run by anyone allowed to be there. All Chinese companies have to have ccp loyalists on the board and have to obey Chinese gov orders, no questions, no disputes, no public disclosure. Us gov orders can be legally disputed.
It is concerning how an FOSS project is held by a company that is making money out of it and having contributors do a lot of work for free.
They do it because the product is open source. You are free to fork it and make a version without ties like that.
How a NATION is held by a people that are making money out of it and having patriots do a lot of work. Or is Linux more a Religion? Free Speech is bigger than both. A system where nobody requires your concern is one done right.
I don't have a problem with companies investing in and using open source. I have a huge issue with the government telling anyone who they can and can't work with. The government's job is protecting its people, not controlling them
clearly not foss
it's American Source , not Open Source , americans don't know what Open even means .. only when their politician puppets on their knees opening their mouth.
baffles me how americans think politicians run their country, not the mentally ill cult in silicon valley and "deep state" and alphabet agencies, like cia nsa etc...
nothing says more democratic country, than gov unable to investigate their own agencies looool
The ecosystem moves forward, shaped not by the old titan’s efforts to preserve its dominance, but by the forces of change and the resilience of those ready to adapt.
Does partly owned by Tencent also mean making business with them?
Tencent assets:
Company - share
Activision Blizzard - 5 %
Epic Games - 48 %
Frontier Development - 7,5 %
Funcom - 100 %
Grinding Gear Games - 80 %
JD dot C om - 18,1 %
Mail dot R u - 7,4 %
Paradox Interactive - 5 %
Riot Games - 100 %
Supercell - 84 %
Snapchat - 12,1 %
Spotify - 7,5 %
Tesla - 5 %
Ubisoft - 9,9 %
Dontnod Entertainment - 23 %
Digital Extremes - 100 %
Yager Development - N/A
Sumo Digital - 100 %
Klei Entertainment - N/A
Bloober Team - 22 %
Stunlock Studios -
RIP digital extremes
Yes.
And nothing of value was lost... like 1/3 of those are glorified text messaging apps, and other 1/3 are generic game studios.
@@acmhfmggru They own a piece of some Japenese devs. too sadly. They own a piece of Platinum and maybe Marvelouw. Had no idea about Sumo, that really pisses me off.
I am surprised the bill doesn't target Netease either but then again Tencent is more visible in all the places they have thrown their money. Netease either outright owns or has David Cage's studio and a number of others that are more prominent albeit not the big ones on the block.
@@HiberNAT not Warframe!
Idk how someone could maintain open source while staying in USA.
Haven't you told us a little earlier, that Linux Foundation has almost nothing to do with Linux already?
The linux foundation doesn't spend a high proportion on linux and related software. However the linux foundation still has great influence: it owns the trademarks and pays the lead developer.
@nullid1492 it pays to the leads dev while the rest work for free.
Forking time, time to get all vital open-source projects out of Yankastand.
To where?
@ChristopherHalbersma My choice would be either Switzerland, Austria, Brazil is another good choice, basically anywhere who aren't sanction crazy.
@@ChristopherHalbersma Where the white people who flee america go.
@@daedalus547 Brazil is being sold to china, for now. Maybe after the next election.
As long as its Yankee free fine by me😂
This and the Russian ban are so stupid. In the future is the only way to do open source have all contributors anonymous?
It seems so.
Why is this a thing? Unlike with microsoft, the code is open for review. If people try to slip something malicious into the kernel, a lot of eyes are on that thing daily. The attack vectors state actors might use are all the undermaintained smaller programs most of the ecosystem are built on, not anything the Linux Foundation has direct control over.
They don't care.
Is this free OS or stateowned OS?
The State control of their pocket of the internet is the future. Think Cyberpunk and the black wall. But it's all different States bordering each other and trying to expand/overwrite each other.
neither
Neither, it's theft.
THIS!
5 eyes OS
OMG ... people are getting crazy with all those laws .
Protecting America, crazy!
@@xlerb1637 protect deez nuts
@@xlerb1637it's open source, of China wants to know how Linux works the source code is publicly available, nothing is stopping them. For closed source projects it makes some sense, you don't want hostile powers inserting code with exploits and such, and you don't want certain software to be available to them, but for open source projects it doesn't make any sense.
@@delayslot5601 I don't see deez nuts you sure you got deez nuts?
@@benjaminsmith3843 So why don't you talk about the XZ compression library vulnerability from 9 months ago?
You know, the one that apparently Jia Tan seems to have slipped into the OPEN SOURCE code without anyone noticing.
1:30 Just going by that logic, and by the chinese government PR statements, literally every medium to large manufacturer in China is therefore a military company as they are mandated to plan with the military a contingency plan for economic mobilization.
All chinese companies are legally required to comply with CCP requests, be that providing data, financial and/or behavioral support. In other words, ALL chinese companies are Government assets in reserve.
with this it is seeming that 5 eyes country companies are the same
Tencent has been insisting the companies they have stock in apply DEI standards. The stocks then fall, and they buy up all the rest. Going on right now at Ubisoft.
LΜAO based chinese, using the westerners stupidity to conquer them
Tencent never interfere in the companies they invested in.
@@leezhieng thats one of strategy.
@@leezhieng LOL, they do all the time
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!! INSTEAD OF COMPANIES
Oh you poor, sweet summer child.
I think it's insane politicizing open source...
Jup but sadly a lot of evil people do not.
Scary...
The possibility that a Trojan horse somehow gets built into the software is the problem they are trying to avoid / solve. The nationalities that are most likely to embed a Trojan that would undermine the US military are the ones being excluded.
Whether that is political or nationalistic is a matter of opinion, and it could actually be both simultaneously.
@@stevebabiak6997 On the flip side, this makes it much easier for US military/interests to the the ones embedding the trojan... I'm divided on this. I don't like the censorship and it seems like a slippery slope that they are already sliding down, but I also don't like the situation like where xz was hijacked by chinese state programmers...
@@stevebabiak6997 you lap up too much neocon propaganda
More years ago than I care to contemplate I ran a small software company. We regularly received requests to bid from certain government entities. After a couple of years, I would just file the requests in File 13 as a bit of bookkeeping showed that we were spending more on compliance than our margin. I cannot conceive of trying to deal with the Feds today. But then, I'm an old curmudgeon.
tencent just became two-cent
I think this will split up the Linux World. They'll be fed up with that at some point and we'll see an 'East-Linux'.
BRIX Kernel!
The sad reality is that maybe some time in the future we may be forbidden to install "East-Linux" on our desktops, because "communism"
5 eyes Linux, BRICS Linux, and likely two or three others and all incompatible
Huawei has now their own OS and contrary tο Linux, is uKernel, like Minix3
Member when they were at least trying to promote free market capitalism?
The Eagle cage gets smaller every day.
Oh that expired in the 70s.
Doing business with your geopolitical enemies is just stupid.
@@HeortirtheWoodwarden making geopolitical enemies instead of doing business is just stupid.
This is a mess, but as long as the US has a policy of banning business with countries they decide to sanction, that's going to be like this. It's unavoidable. Either make US change, or have the Linux Foundation leave the US.
When that country is one that does largely operate in the open market (Russia), you have a point. When you have one that closes off internally and expects everyone else to open up to them so they can siphon knowledge from you, not so much.
Classic. Bend once and they will crush you whole. What no principles does to mf.
Actually I don't believe that the government has the power to stop anyone from doing business. But hey, when did that ever matter?
it doesn't, as long as Fed govt is allowed outside of its 10th Amendment box
As someone who once knew the Gates family personally, I can tell you that their goal is to end free software entirely. When Microsoft joined the board of the Linux Foundation, that was the beginning of the end. They want to force everyone to use their mammoth bloatware programs and pay a monthly fee for the privilege. It has been several decades since I installed Red Star Linux on a spare laptop for laughs. It was a good working version of linux. The Chinese do not need our help. The only possible result of this ill advised directive is a hard fork in the kernel. The center of development will move away from the United States.
US will end up having windows on routers and switches some time in the future.
Microsoft uses Linux for their servers.
@tristen_grant MS will get "special license" (by bringing $$cash$$ to politicians), so only they will stay operational.
@@Axctal Except many opensource projects are also getting money. Maybe not from politicians. I don't see Linux going anywhere. Plus, the US isn't the world.
@tristen_grant lots of stuff (routers/switches/servers/etc) is running Linux or some variant. Can you imagine MS "hijacking" this base by legislative caveat? Way more important and lucrative than any PC market.
@@Axctal I doubt it will happen.
At least for the Open Source Community there should be an exception. I mean the entire point of Open Source is that you have access to the source and can see what the other ones are doing.
But I am really interested to see how it turns out for gaming. It could lead to Tencent having to sell all shares regarding Gaming and Tech that they have and their games getting delisted from Xbox/Windows-Store and the Epic Games Launcher. Could be really disruptive if this holds.
I guess it will not happen. Politicians are just playing games to gain favor. A really large portion of consumers will be affected if they cut chinese companies off in the way you say it.
About 9 months ago there was the XZ compression library vulnerability, where a backdoor was put into the widely-used open source code, apparently by a guy named Jia Tan, and nobody noticed until that guy from Postgres just happened to be profiling the code.
Why have an exception? The current president has made sanctions work for once, we should all be happy to see it. The next guy's bait and switch on immigration makes it more important for biden to get protections in place before his current term ends.
But then china would retaliate and a lot of western game companies have a huge presence in China (Epic games ,Riot games ) . For some even it's the main market .
@@xlerb1637 Yes, over Thanksgiving vacation too. If that dev didn't notice the performance change in SSH it very likely would have reached most distributions which use the tarball. NixOS uses the source instead and I guess GUIX as well. Supply chain attacks are a big threat. Jia Tan put the malware inside test image files. Literally broken into chunks and stuffed inside a JPEG/PDF. The technical review of what it did and how it worked was really really sneaky. At no point was the malware inside the source code. Only the binary image files in the test suite. Then they would alter the tarballs having injected the malware into them. We have to diligently scan all source code with expensive tools to ensure we don't get hit by a supply chain attack. I'm talking about Node.js packages, etc.
At this point no Open Source project should run out of the US
No need for that, if it's generally believed the government is wrong in this, all can be fixed when no company is willing to deal with US DOD. In reality, the government is probably just trying to eliminate all free or open source software from government computers and that will not cut into the profits of companies that only provide proprietary software, so they will happily comply, at a price.
Sheesh... Someone please tell the US gov the definition of Open Source. It makes sure that regardless of where you come from, malicious code won't be added without anyone seeing it.
Secondly, not only does the workload increase for those who remain, those kicked out STILL have access to the work from Open Source projects.
See how silly this is?
xz debacle disagrees
Dictatorship in a nutshell. Everyday we figure out that capitalism is actually a dictatorship in disguise.
If it continues like this a hard fork is inevitable.
if Huawei are willing to open Harmony OS this will be the best thing to ever happen to them.
one of those people used to be part of the Rust Foundation rep. Huawei , is the same applied?
Tencent working on providing data to the government and with anticheat kernel in popular games these days... Makes sense.
Xi Jianping studying my gooning techniques. Guys taking notes "Pump, Leak, Edge"
How does any of that make sense?
@@SterileNeutrino Maybe having spyware in the kernel of millions of gamers around the world is no big deal... Politicians and influential people also have children who play...
Kernel level anti-cheat that totally won't do anything sketchy now or in the future, honest!
Every PC with Marvel Rivals is gonna become a CCP botnet one day.
so thats why riot league of legends cant run on linux because of vanguard
Apparently that name was much too approachable, I just looked up the same house bill H.R. 5009 (including the same section) and it's now named "To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2025 for military activities of the Department of Defense, for military construction, and for defense activities of the Department of Energy, to prescribe military personnel strengths for such fiscal year, and for other purposes." Also, i'm amused that the bill authorizing appropriations for 2025 was first introduced in July 2023, that's some efficient speedy work there from your elected congress.
On the text of the law itself, I think the part you're pointing to is actually a nothingburger in disguise. (Note: For the purpose of this analysis i'm going to assume that the only possible thing that could be bad about Huawei/Tencent being on the LF board is this law, that no other law is triggered by a Chinese Military Company being on the board of the Linux Foundation)
The thing I think the thing you're missing is that this *isn't* prohibiting the DOD from interacting with Chinese military companies(hereafter CMCs). It's also not banning the DOD from interacting with entities who are interacting with CMCs. What it's doing is prohibiting the DOD from interacting with entities that interact with entities that LOBBY for CMCs. It then extends that prohibition to entities that have subsidiaries or parent entities that contract with entities that lobby for CMCs. So if DOD is interacting with IBM or MS and they are interacting with the Linux Foundation (LF) then that's not at issue because (presumably) LF is not lobbying for a CMC. So what about LF directly? That would depend on whether Huawei or Tencent are lobbying on behalf of themself. Just focusing on Huawei, they *were* lobbyists but stopped in early 2024.
TL;DR - This law is specifically about lobbyists so either Huawei/Tencent is already a problem (e.g. because they're a CMC) or it's not a problem. I don't see this law adding anything new to the picture.
Next year the Lunduke journal will appear on that list.
This is all too crazy. It is going to bite us right back into our a****es.
Well, Android basically has been forked and has better performance in term of Harmony OS (from Huawei). If we can say specific linux OS, China at least has made it for NK (which basically they have 1000% their own linux distribution). This means basically... well... you can just say goodbye to all cheap IOT/embedded system (which you can install the OS yourself) as there will be no one (unless volunteer) to write the driver for it.
I get the feeling this stuff is why a micro-kernel like RedoxOS is actually a better design for the community. If a Russian team is working on a driver, it doesn't matter if they can't work on the core because it is minimal and separate from their code. Same for Chinese developers. Or for any other nationality that the US government suddenly decides to punish.
Remember a couple weeks ago with the XZ compromise? The existence of cross-cutting ubiquitous utilities like that is a problem that micro-kernel design cannot address. I don't have a better solution and I'm not crazy about this blanket banning by nationality stuff, but I do recognize that there is a deep problem here.
RedoxOS does seem quite interesting...
Hardware needs to be separated. Without that the s/w doesn't matter. US should not source anything except basic raw materials from adversaries while said adversaries should do the same. Completely separate chips, PCBs, systems, software and wall off the internet too while you're at it.
This one, I agree with. ALL Chinese companies are beholden to and partially owned by the CCP. Huawei is already known to backdoor its hardware.
Don't confuse investment with ownership.
Ironically, so does the west.
@@SpookyAlien-2001 I'm sure everyone does... when they're the country of origin. There are some countries I'd rather not have snooping in what are supposed to be our secure affairs.
everyone backdoors. Cisco routers are backdoored by the US, so is Windows, and Checkpoint routers are backdoored by Israel. Choose your poison.
I would like Linus to follow this law to letter, sending cease-and-desist letter not only to Tencent, but to all the companies, which stocks are owned by Tencent, including Epic Games, Activision Blizzard, Snapchat, Tesla Motors and Riot Games. This would surely be helpful for an ordinary American.
honestly, would that be such a bad thing? a bunch of generic game studios have a bad quarter while they rearrange their finances. Oh no!
@@acmhfmggru epic games barely develops games. They develop game engines.
don't forget Discord is like 40% Tencent
You would lost a lot of companies
Don't forget that even genshin impact is Chinese
Does this mean Amazon can’t do business with these companies as well?
The first question entering my mind:
So is Qualcomm a USA military company? I mean obviously TI is 😅😅
Qualcomm for sure is.
The spyware accusation is a straw man. What they're really after is damaging the other side's economy. The whole endeavor is purely destructive.
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Linux Foundation II, they'll work with Huawei and Tencent and upstream to the kernel.
Foreign companies are required to partner with a Chinese company in order to operate in China. These regulations facilitated Tencent to have access to a range of companies in order to exchange for the large Chinese markets. The CCP is in bed with companies to facilitate those transactions.
the US government is playing with in a warehouse full of TNT in the heart of a city, that City is the global economy.
consequences of HR5009:
shattering the Linux foundation and many other foundations that deal with FOSS,
then without the Linux foundation, Linux then falls, potentially crippling vital infrastructure that depends on Linux.
the fall of multiple pieces of infrastructure causes entire supply chains to fail.
the failure of multiple supply chains then causes massive disruptions to the global economy that can't be recovered from.
the global economy falls leading to a depression that could be worse than the 1930s.
YES, this is what I'm also predicting.
I guess the law would have equally spectacular effects on the Windows ecosystem. And those will make the press in a big way.
It's all so tiring.
I think digging into details is noise, you can ban anyone for some excuse which may look legit! The main goal is to weaken Linux!
Many of the contributors from Huawei for Rust become part of the Futurewei Technologies.
Just the fact Linux kernel is open-source makes no sense;
Anyone could literally just copy-past the kernel and name it with a new name pretending it's not Linux like Android low-key did
This is way to massive and complicated and its gonna be a mess for the users..
I really don't understand why the government has a say on open source projects. Everyone can fork it, everyone can copy and modify it, so what's the point of removing all the Russians and Chinese from the project ? There could be other contributors presenting them as Americans but in reality are from Russia... so, again, what's the point ?
There is no point. The government just trying to flex their non-existent muscles.
While the Russian government and CCP are bad news, most open source developers are apolitical and just want to make great code.
Never judge a people, or anyone, by their government.
I wonder if this will make companies migrate to a bsd
The guys from other nations will either give up or band together to make their own os from the forks until this law is somehow bypassed, add what you thi:k might be otherwise
I love how this entire trend is not only American paranoia and russophobia, but also a show of pure incompetence from rulemakers. You know what you do when you distrust open source software? You hire reviewers, and you compile from source. The DoD could hire specialists to do that and offer a "DoD-certified Linux kernel repo". It'd be significantly cheaper than turning the entire software sector of (what's left of) the globalized economy upside down.
In their misguided, desperate efforts to avoid getting downgraded from sole global hegemon to major global power, the USA is instead speedrunning their way into a mere regional power. And I don't think their diplomatic corps know how to play the one-amongst-peers role.
There's nothing American about these trends. America was founded on classic liberalism, and up until recently, that was the core philosophy. These Marxist wannabes have turned both the US and Canada into tyranical fascist states.
You are just transferring the problem onto supposed specialists though. What is stopping adversary nations from doing the same thing, but trying to out-fox the fox-hunters? It becomes an arms race, and in this situation the attacker always has the advantage, since they only need to get lucky once whereas the defender needs to block attacks every time or they've failed. It just can't scale to the degree that it needs to.
That's not to say that I think this politicization of FOSS and blanket banning by nationality is a good idea, I just recognize that this is a really tricky situation and there isn't a quick-fix or engineering solution that will address the underlying real politics.
As for your doom and gloom outlook for USA: lol, yeah, sure, whatever you say.
Have you ever considered that it's not incompetence, but malice?
And here, guys, you’ve been given a tiger version of 24/7 Russian TV propaganda
@@Alpha___00 lol, back under Don Lemon's desk with you
If lazy on game company comparisons, this could be an ironic win for Unity in contrast to Unreal Engine. And thats terrible!
I was under the impression that open source projects, in general, are beyond any governments and considered a common asset of the entire human civilization?
Who gave you that impression? Seriously. Open source projects aren't a monolith, they all have their own licenses with different rules. They are not "considered a common asset of the entire human civilization", that has no basis in law or license.
What you are describing is public domain, not open source.
You thought wrong. The US govt wants it all.
@@RuslanIvanyuk-ub8fj Aren't we talking specifically about software? "public domain" seems too wide for the topic here.
@@acmhfmggru I said "in general". When people talk about "open source" they immediately assume "you can fork it". This is because most open source projects are licensed in a way that's pretty "open".
a while back, i hit a point where i felt like everything was out of my control. i kept wondering why other people seemed to get what they wanted while i was stuck in the same place. then i came across this book called Vibrations of Manifestation by Alex Lane. i wasn’t expecting much, but the way it explains the connection between your energy and the life you create? it blew my mind. it’s not just a book, it’s like a blueprint for turning your life around.
Интересно, что будут делать разработчики AstraLinux, RedOS, Alt, ROSA?
Ничего, выкинутые разрабы также коммитят, но на общих правилах. Вот и все.
they must see the writing on the wall and prepare to fork a new version of the kernel, because the Great Western Schism won't stop there.
Dumb military machine chooses simplest and dumb solution to their problems. It would be 100% sufficient to just mandate all communications between Linux and those companies to be public, trivial and easy.
I was wondering if/when this would happen…
Please don't make this into some clickbait. Explain it correctly at the beginning. That foundation supports the development of the Kernel. It does not control the Kernel. So, people working on it could just be supported by someone else. It's necessary to make that support for the developers more decentralized.
Russians and Russian sounding names were pulled from the Maintainers file, so it is not all just funding
I don't blame you for not reading the comment section.
That's another portion of Freedom and Democracy™ for y'all
So I guess american companies will have to stop using Unreal Engine and delete all their games developed in UE from Steam?
Perhaps it's time to stop playing games and get back to reality?
Here in Russia many laws are deliberately adopted with the most vague interpretations, apparently to simply have the maximum number of levers of pressure on society and individuals. All laws adopted after the start of the war are like that.
This is similar to the destruction of the Tower of Babel, which resulted in God scrambling the language of the citizens, resulting in an inability to communicate.
YES!
Limiting the influence of corporations that are known to make spyware and malware for their government -- as is the case here with Tencent and apparently also Huawei -- seems rather different than outright banning developers simply because they're Russian.
Does this mean people can't play POE on base? Isn't a TOS/EULA a contract? POE is 100% owned by tencent.
Interesting. Wonder how this will impact SteamOS given TenCent makes games and Steam likes selling them (naturally). Hmm... and EVE Online given TenCent's investment in CCP games.
Slippery slope, what's that?
I guess I don't understand this correcty, but I'll make this suggestion anyway. If the Linux Foundation is forced to choose between Department of Defense contracts and Tencent and Huawei related work, why not just abandon the Defense contracts? Or do I not understand the Biden executive order correctly?
Do they honestly believe malicious actors would present themselves as Chinese or Russian?
Like, c'mon...
Remember the XZ compromise from a couple WEEKS ago? They literally often do present themselves as their actual nationalities...
@@acmhfmggru "weeks"? You mean months ago. How do you know they were actually Chinese or affiliated with China? Could've been CIA for all we know.
And that backdoor wasn't even something cunning that can be written off as bug, just a hidden injection allowed by the lack of people who understand the code and have time to look over new commits.
This probably could've been avoided even by making the core of that library a separate piece independent of the platform, thus making different people responsible for different things in a clean way.
Nothing like that could've passed my code review. Unless I understand every line of the code, it's not going into the master branch.
@@the_original_dude "I don't make mistakes" is a really bad longterm plan, man, but you do you.
@@acmhfmggru I never said that, I constantly make mistakes. That's why I go over everything several times. And since I started doing code reviews, the project I was working on no longer had constant new bugs, and things that were overlooked were easy to pinpoint and fix in no time, and people working on it stated to gain a better understanding of what they're doing.
There's nothing hard in making sure you understand things you're working on, it just requires time and a certain mindset through which you understand that time spent doing great work will greatly pay off in the long term.
@@the_original_dude errors like that will always crop up, but you are right that it wasn't the hack of the century by any stretch of the imagination. Nothing a mafia hacker wouldn't be able to do given some time.
Absolutely horrifying law from the empire of lies.
Knowing the CCP. I’m not that against this. They are that bad. So is their control, which is undeniable, in Hauwei and Tencent. I’m cautious on the details.
Yea, I agree 100%.
Any company of any size is a minion of the CCP and the CCP is a real threat to us all.
Also Russia is a real treat to the West, whether you like it or not.
Any time I mention that group my comments get removed, so just suffice it to say I agree completely. They're bad news and have their tendrils in everything.
-1 quadrillion social credit
It really doesn't make any sense for open source projects. China can still access the code, it's publicly available, and they can't hide anything in it for long as again, the source is public, any exploits or backdoors will be discovered and removed. Chinese and Russian programmers can still contribute as well, they just have to launder the updates through a third party, which is mildly annoying but not hard with an open source project. For closed source systems it makes sense, but it is cutting your nose to spite your face with open source.
America is supporting genocide in gaza my dude.
Impossible to implement.
Banned from OPEN project, because of country you live in. 👍
govt/military VS country
@mokisable It was about ban of devs from Russia, not that.
@@realalphas Oh alright
"No no no you don't understand, that's completely different"
- People in the comments