For me too. I don't know but there's something about CDC that I wish they could have spent more time and maybe with some flashbacks. It is still so serious. The entire CDC storyline is just comes and goes so fast. With just two episodes, they left with so many mystery and questions which we would never find out.
Obviously the U.S. Government and Military of TWD universe were absolute morons. In our reality, the military OWNS THE NIGHT with Night Vision, Thermal, and even plain old Lights. And Ammo wouldn't run out for months if not years. Heck... a decently equipped and armed group of Civilians would have been able to hold the CDC.
Even though robert kirkman regreted this storyline its still one of my favorites. It closes out the idea a cure will be found and the only thing left is to accept the world for what it is now
I mean, as long as humanity survives, there's always the chance that somewhere in the future we'll find out a cure. But it's very likely that none of the survivors of the old world will be alive to see it.
@moteroargentino7944 I get your point and I appreciate the optimism but most people don't realise is that a cure would be useless unless it's used on someone who's freshly turned or infected since most zombies are rotting missing organs/flesh/limbs to try and cure those zombies wouldn't work as there too far gone so a cure would only be viable for people who have just turned or infected.
As a former soldier myself(who yes, thinks it utterly farcical how the military falls so quickly, but hey, it's fiction and fun to imagine), my take is that the CDC itself couldn't have been a planned defended location based on the evidence. There's no attempt at any significant barriers other than a few sandbag walls on the ground level that are not connected. We don't see any fences, coils of C wire and no one seems to have actually put any positions on the roof. It looks like just the main gate had a vehicle check point. So I don't think there was any kind of organized last stand at all, the location of the bodies, the haphazard randomness of them don't point to any sort of battle line at all. It wasn't heavily fortified because it was never expected to be in danger if the city was secured. When the city collapsed so quickly, there was no time to correct this. What I would expect is that the perimeter of the city itself and checkpoints overstretched the military and the forces we see at the CDC are remnants of the various overrun prepared positions in and around Atlanta, these soldiers would also have been surrounded by panicking civilians. The doctors inside the CDC would have seen not an organized defense, but a routed mob panicking, shooting and fleeing. This would have been after hearing radio and tv broadcasts on the worsening situation and seeing the napalm dropping. That's when they would have bolted into the crowd hoping to get away too.
This is why I love making these videos lol, hearing others perspectives on these scenarios is so interesting. The idea of a scared mob rushing the cdc instead of walkers is really intriguing, I really wish they would’ve explored these scenarios more.
@@Swell-Films I enjoy your videos for the same reason. I also agree that I wish they would have explored these events or would greenlight the Fall of Atlanta episode that got cancelled. Fans clearly are more fascinated by the fall itself than most of the Post Apocalyptic survival so it's always strange to me that a show or project like that never made it into full production.
Former marine here. And with everything going on, these defenses were likely either national guard a combined group of mixed unit leftovers or both. Meaning training and unit cohesion as well as command elements and logistics were put together on short notice and likely uncommunicative after deployment. Given that scenario I’m surprised they did as well as they did. And as they started to realize that they were cut off from supply, reinforcements and exfil, it’s not surprising they put themselves down.
You know what made me wonder about the fall of the CDC a bit more? The lack of fences and other vehicles like Humvees and trucks. Sure there are two tanks and a truck but with the amount of bodies there it makes me wonder if they walked or were dropped in by helicopter which doesn't make much sense. So in my mind there could have been some escape attempts much like we saw in FTWD. Simply because the CDC building would be an important place to protect so with Operation Cobalt happening, panicking civilians and doctors and the undead being attracted to the sounds of the soldiers killing civilians and doctors trying to flee I wouldn't be surprised if some of or the majority of soldiers escaped in a convoy of sorts.
Agree, i mean The Walking Dead kinda mirror to real life so it makes sense if CDC facilities become the most important and well defended place. If you ask me, the collapse of order in walking dead don't make sense. I mean how come from point that everyone lives normal day to Zombie start popping out in one day lead to collapse. There should be build up to that situation especially in the movie series
Metro Atlanta's infrastructure would make any physical barriers challenging to maintain. (varying elevation, lack of public transportation leading to congested streets, the busiest airport in the world, roadway bridges, etc...). Also, the security shown at 2:06 does exist IRL at the CDC, so I'm guessing the military protected the facility until it fully locked down and wasn't meant to be long-term. I grew up near the CDC headquarters and have been to both locations in Atlanta; nothing can get in or out without authorization on an average day. They have contingency plans for almost every scenario and would be well-prepared for emergencies (as shown throughout the episode with the food and living facilities).
Um that single tank could have just drove around for a little while and ran over every Walker in the area crushing their skulls. All the other soldiers could have just sat inside the CDC and watched out the windows while a couple guys in the tank systematically took out all of the walkers 😅. The fact those soldiers couldn't figure that out makes them look like the biggest fools ever 😂.
@@63annushka it WOULD be nice to find out what happened to them all. If ANY of them managed to survive and turn into anything still around an even least looking like used to be pro military by the time the 2 flagship shows ends some decades an a half post collapse like shown here
It was a downward spiral after they fired Frank Darabont. The series would’ve been a LOT better had he stayed on. That’s why they had to retcon the walkers into “variant”because he knew the semi sentient walkers were scarier.
It’s so stupid to me how Rick and co. didn’t even bother to loot the surrounding area before or after they left the cdc. Automatic weapons and ammunition was literally shown to be all around there. The group could’ve been armed to the teeth already by the beginning of season 2. It bothers me many times during the series anyway. Over all the episodes they left so many weapons just there. I get ammunition would be an issue. But like Rick said to Carl in season 4. Every bullet counts. So doesn’t matter if you don’t have ammo, you have a gun. Never know when you find some ammunition. They did that after the prison too. When Daryl and Beth left, Daryl literally carried an M4A1, after they went into the woods together he only has his crossbow left. Same with the Shotgun Carl has after the prison. There were plenty of guns all around. It just annoys me sometimes.
True, it was probably done to rise the stakes, but still annoying. In the CDC at least, it made sense. When they arrived, it was getting dark, they couldn't see well, there was some walkers roaming around, and they had no other place to go. Basically it was not the time to start looting. And when they left, the whole place was about to blow up, and afterwards it would be hard to find something salvageable among the burning ruins, plus that big explosion would draw every walker in the vicinity.
@@petthequeenofmaddness8592 too heavy only really matters if they had NO vehicles. They wouldn't regress to working vehicles being relatively rare or in short supply with qualified mechanics an needing horses, wagons or walking everywhere till the LATE, Late seasons. An by then if they ranged out enough an looked in the right areas enough decent vehicles were probably STILL around. They should a easily been able to find drivable vics way back in the first 2 or 3 seasons. Gassed, keys an all probably. Think it's just in times of stress MASS MAJORITY of people STOP thinking an start running on pure route instinct an training IF they've trained specific things so much it becomes instinctive responses... An muscle memory. There's many indicators as such. Given ONLY a few in this episode have even a familiarity with that sorta training it sorta makes sense they just booked. But agree they should a least grabbed every weapon an ammo they could or anything useful that happened to be right in front of them if they thought it'd aid in their survival. Maybe fighting off a walker hoard or aiding more mundane survival tasks later
I'm sure if frank derabont remained show runer he would have expanded on it as same as he planned to with the tank walker it really anoysy me that we ner go a full episode dedicated to the fall of atl it would have probably been my favorite episode as I love bacstory
Thanks for explaining the morality points the military would have to face during a catastrophe like this one. People forget that soldiers are just every day humans too. Asking them to go destroy what they love and are protecting is an unfathomable ask. There would be a lot of personnel hesitating or going AWOL
And don't forget, there'd be a lot of jobsworth Officers and NCOs. Although, yeah,I expect they'd only be throwing their weight around to stop themselves from going AWOL.
I always wanted to know the story behind the DShK machine gun on one of the sand bag emplacements. That’s a Russian weapon system. It’s highly unlikely US forces would have one and more unlikely it would be fielded. In reality it’s most likely a mistake by the set decorators. Or a “we will just substitute an M2 for this. Nobody will notice if it’s in the background” situation. In universe I like to think that maybe a museum had one in their archive or a random collector brought it out in an attempt to help defend the CDC.
That’s a really interesting take, really dark if you think about how the military were ordered to execute civilians. Maybe this collector arrived with the best intentions only to get shot down on the spot and stripped of his weapons anyway, Whether they wanted to or not.
Yea saw the DSHK and figured yea this is def some set flaw they didn't mind committing to. Probably didnt have a m2 to put up in the spot and somehow hd a DSHK available. Your explanation works, the desperation showing them deploying non govt issued weapons to defend points.
@ChrisStephens-ij5yi tbf the m60s can be because they're pulling national guard and old inventory to cover the country in response to wildfire. I don't think any of these people really thought they'd have to use them.
I was about to comment something similar. My theory was it could have been confiscated from a cartel or international pirates. Sitting in evidence, it was only deployed because the military needed absolutely anything that could shoot at that time when supplies were dwindling. Sure, it was foreign and dated equipment, but if it had ammo and still shot. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
What frustrates me is all the tanks parked in this scene hatches open. Even though these are probably Chieftans dressed up as M-1A1s they're supposed to be M-1s. There is a coax 7.62mm machine gun that is stabilized with the 120mm cannon on the turret. The tank crews would/should have been smart enough to button up the hatches when walkers got close enough and just continue to unload on the horde from the coax gun or using canister shots from the 120mm cannon. They should have a full loadout of 42 120mm cannon rounds and 10,000-14,000 rounds of 7.62mm belted ammo. Using the coax there is little to no recoil from it. The gunner can just aim at head level sweeping the turret back and forth like scythe on a horde. The only real issue would be the 240b overheating. Even then they could or should have kept the spare barrel(s) on board. I get it, you don't get to have the cool badass everyman survivor story if an armored battalion cuts down the entire Atlanta horde like a combine harvesster, but showing how inept the US Military is theoughout the series is just frustrating.
people forget mine flail tanks exist literally heavy steel chains spinning around in front of the tank with incredible force and speed. meant for setting off mines safely, but would literally crush zombies into pulp.
@hydroxide5507 Yeah. My Engineer Company in the Army had an Area Clearance Platoon attached to us whose entire job was using the M1271 Mine Clearance Vehicle which has a similar flail system attached to it. I want to say at different depots there was flail attachments for dozers and backhoe type vehicles as well. The advantage for the M-1 based Combat Engineering vehicles was that they were still a 60 ton Abrams even if the chains got gummed up. Some of the Desert Storm vets in my unit mentioned that there were more than a few Iraqis show got the zipper tread treatment when they got in front of M-1s or Bradleys.
@@haiwin224 reminds me of that netflix movie leave the world behind when they had an interstate clogged with hacked teslas. My first thought was how any CEV or tank could have easily plowed a path
@@ThunderDawg0 Unless a series has direct US DOD support (pro military message that is good for recruiting etc) you don't actually see real M-1s in use. So anytime you see a M-1 Abrams on screen it's normally a Chieftan dressed up with vis mods to look like a M-1.
This was my favorite moment in the early days of the show. No hope for a cure, no help from the military, nothing more to do then blow up the one last Beacon of The Old World. From this point on its an entirely new world with new threats, both living and dead. Its a world where everything goes and nothing is certain beyond the fact that death is now around every single corner I also wonder if any soldiers would have gotten out when they had the chance or if they would all go down in one last desperate stand. If they did manage to get out we can only hope that a few of them still had their souls intact and would try to help people. I think if they ever want to have another shot at exploring the early days of the outbreak they should think of showing how things went in Canada since we know a few Canadian cities were also hit during Cobalt. You could even have a few members of both militaries meeting up in Maine or maybe even Halifax to compare notes and try to set up something Great video man, keep them coming!
it depends on what area's of Canada were hit like we have more tractors here then we have gun's, I also wonder if the cold would slow the zombies down or if coyotes would go after them
in my opinion the ammount of soldier corpses at the initial fortifications suggests that the battle started not because of a horde coming but something I find more likely days after operation kobalt. It might have started with a group of armed looters trying to get to the last place that could have had a cure or at least supplies. Most likely in the night because this would make the soldiers more likely to slip up (due to the visibility and over all fatigue). The looters were most likely pushed off with some losses but what this shootout bring was a horde of undead that then swarmed the cdc drawn to the noise. This would put the camp into even more chaos as now they had to deal with the undead possibly minutes after they just fought off the looters. They would fight with whatever resources they had left yet the darkness and exhaustion would most likely kick in leaving the soldiers desperately trying to fight back. That would last until the the door to the CDC opened and group of doctors and scientists ran out making the soldiers split between trying to keep them out of the undead and trying to fight the horde. Seeing that they had some of the scientists some soldiers might have decided to avoid getting completely overrun and pack any remaining soldiers and scientists that were left onto the trucks and Humvees. (I deduce that there were more vehicles there when the army set up due to the ammount of corpses seen in the shots) This is supported by the lack of a big last stand at the entrance to the CDC.
In combat, tanks have _VERY little_ situational awareness, especially in cities and urban areas. Tanks require the infantry or infantry fighting vehicles to be their eyes and ears. There's really nothing a tank can do in those settings. Also, a tank shooting with it's 120mm gun or a 105mm (looks like an M60 in season 1) in an urban area will risk overpressure and friendly fire. It's interesting how we don't see a lot of M2 Bradleys or the Strykers with a 50 cal which I believe is more effective on taking out the walkers. I hope this add some insight to your last thoughts!
its a chieftain not M60 but either way you are right they have little use other than maybe making civilians think twice about rioting or attacking them, though they would have their MGs to at least be able to do something, usually MBTs have a coaxial MG and on or more mounted on top.
I feel like a nore fitting explanation is riots during the outbreak/ civil disobedience it would answer alot of the questions like the dead bodies and the gunshot wounds.
I think that’s possible, although we don’t see any civilians that look armed (from what I’ve noticed) so I lean more so towards them being self inflicted or friendly fire wounds
It always frustrated me how they left a great deal of guns (M4A1s, M16s, possibly others) on the vast majority of the corpses. From the camera angles, I could see a large amount of them just laying there. Why wouldn't they take them? Even if there was no ammunition, they could use the guns for spare parts or other stuff that would be useful and then be able to use it when ammunition came plentiful for that particular caliber. Just don't understand that.
Surely somewhere in the world of The walking dead there would have been a tank followed by a couple of petrol tankers not even having to fire a shot just running over zombies with a large speaker at the front it
I thought the same thing. But that would require adequate coordination and a solid chain of command to organize and execute that plan. For what we saw, the military was dispatched in relatively small teams to secure specific areas (safe zones, hospitals, schools, checkpoints, etc). They didn't perform any large scale land operation to retake the entire city, probably due to the nation wide chaos. Basically at any location where there was people, walkers could appear. If they had done it, I guess they would need to modify the tank to prevent damage to the tracks, or use industrial vehicles instead. A steamroller or several bulldozers would be perfect. Even if they don't kill the walkers, they break the horde and immobilize them, so foot soldiers can just walk behind finishing them off without the risk of getting surrounded by the dead.
Just running the zombies over would not be effective, aside from gunking up the treads, you are more likely to crush and tear off limbs and not crack skulls. Leaving you with many crawlers for every zombie you kill. Meaning you have to do mop up which can be more dangerous as you wont always be able to see who is dead and who is a crawler that cant move much. As for the tankers, i would not want to be the sucker who need to get out and connect the hose to refuel the tank. Keep in mind that while you do this the tank cant move at all and the zombies will still be drawn to the site as that is where a lot of loud noises have been made for a while.
@TheMjohann I would take crawlers over walkers any day of the week. They're only dangerous when you're not expecting them, but here the cleanup team is specifically looking for them, well aware that they need to make sure all heads are destroyed. And they can take all the time they need, because the walkers can't even walk. Refueling could be done by just retreating to a safe position, or if the vehicle broke down, waiting until the rest of the vehicles and infantry (this operation would require more than one) clean the area and they can safely dismount. They would carry supplies to last a few days if needed. And they could even attempt an airevac worst case scenario, assuming there's enough room above. But yes, ultimately the drivers would have the most risky job.
I really hope AMC does a 3 season or longer series of just the collapse of society. From the perspectives of police, Doctors, Morticians, EMS, MILITARY, government, and just regular people. With the vives of TWD season 1 and 2, as well as Fear twd season 1. Im tired of these new post apocalyptic slop they've been pushing out.
They won't do it for a few reasons. > Fear The Walking Dead was supposed to show a complete collapse, and you've probably seen what they did. > Too small a budget > And of course Kirkman won't let that happen, because that fat pig doesn't want the TWD universe to be expanded with more interesting stories, instead preferring to keep revolving around the theme of "survival".
@@macedon379calling him a fat pig because he doesnt want to do that is wild he literally created twd because he wanted zombie media about life after the apocalypse starts and how to adapt to it. If you dont like it dont watch it instead of going wah wah like a baby and throwing out insults. Better yet create something yourself🤣🤣🤣
I've always wondered what the story of the show would be like if Jenner lived. What conversations he'd have with Milton and Eugene. Imagine he got taken by Jadis to be taken to the CRM since he'd be the last scientist from the old world who studied the wildfire virus
I think your analysis is pretty solid. The mental anguish and physical drain of the soldiers is key to understanding what happened at the CDC. They faced a never-ending fight with decreasing numbers and supplies against an enemy whose numbers increased by leaps and bounds every hour. No matter how many they put down in the wider battles for Atlanta, their foe just kept coming and coming and coming. And seeing friends, family and fellow soldiers among the newly dead had to be devastating to their morale. Love these atmospheric explorations! Keep them going!
The lack of barricades and no established parameter has me believe that this was a make shift ALAMO The 2 tanks aren’t even the type you’d want to defend an AO like the CDC. This looks about as rag tag as it gets but they were forced to stay there due to overwhelming losses
There's bits of lore regarding the CDC research, spread over the franchise material. Josh, one of the first Lilly Caul affairs during the apocalypse tells how one day he come home to find his mom dead and Swat teams guarding the perimeter, with hazmat folks collecting samples from the dead walkers who killed his mom. Later in Daryl and Merle PC game, you can also visist a Hospital where doctors have been harvesting samples for the CDC, and later at the Stadium Evac lvl, you can heard radio chatter about the exfiltration of a bitten scienstist (Dr. Jenner wife). So my guess is, they tried to collect samples to conduct studies, and Jenner lost his wife cause of her doing field work, and in the end the best sample was from her own preserved brain tissue, with the other ones collected being too rotten and necrotic to be of any use. And most probably when Atlanta garrison was overrun, the doctors either left or commit suicide like Jenner tells Rick.
Because I only started watching The Walking Dead a few years ago, I didn't realize that some of the scenes actually did have explanations in the form of webisodes. Like the bicycle girl from episode 1. Or the red machete.
It would’ve been interesting if when the scientists fled, the soldiers retreated inside with how many scientists they could retrieve without further causalities to the unit. They could survive inside and venture out for resources.
Thx Bro, i am in LOVE WITH THIS SERIES. Next you could try with Atlanta's Camp in the abandoned Building ( where Daryl and Carol find the Police). Or the Battle scene in the First episode
Fun fact close to the CDC there was a toy r us store and sadly it’s not there no more god love that year especially when Georgia was quiet and peaceful place
The soldiers making a final stand at the gates only to be distracted by scared scientists running outside and getting caught in the crossfire makes for a interesting visual
What I think happened is the escaping scientists left with the few remaining soldiers, explaining both why some soldiers are dead. Alternatively, other survivors had the same idea as the group, but Jenner didn't let them in, and they left or died.
One thing that always amazes me they carry that bag of guns from the sheriffs office. But yet I’ve watched parking dead for a series numerous times. Outside the CDC they have all these guns and heavy machine guns all sitting I’ve never seen anybody walk over firearms and not pick something up if they’re already short on food, ammo and weapons.
The M2 browning mg is actually extremely heavy weighing about 80lbs and with the bipods adding even more weight so it wouldn’t be practical to grab them and take them with plus the ammo would likely be spent. As for the other weapons they would likely not be in a serviceable condition to be rely ably used depending on how long they have been left there in the elements at the cdc and chances are the group at this stage would not have the means/supplies to maintain and clean them. It would be a better idea to just leave them instead of taking them with adding additional luggage. However not grabbing ammo is pretty dumb
Very fascinating video. I loved the CDC arc and interesting to see your probably accurate assessment of it. Always wondered why no soldiers went inside with the Doctor for survival and to further protect the facility
Once again Ty Swell, another phenomenal video! I’ve always been super curious what happened outside the CDC with the military detachment send to guard it. Cause you have dead soldiers, two tanks and even a couple of machine guns still completely loaded. Yet there were corpses everywhere. When Rick is riding through Atlanta there’s a shot where you can see a 50.Cal machine gun Fully Loaded. which is interesting. Thank you once again for another amazing video.
I'm no hardcore Walking Dead fan(more of a Resident Evil typa fan lol), but I always thought that the walkers in the beginning actually ran for the first few hours/days and that's how they were able to do such substantial damage so quickly. Not to say slow walkers aren't still a threat but I feel like them starting out pretty quick and then as they decayed they slowed to true walkers. Idk if there's any proof but it's a fun theory even if it has no weight behind it. Great vid!
What I don't get is why no one collected any of the M16s we see scattered all over the area. That's substantially more firepower than they'd have for a while. It's not like the guns went bad, they would've still worked just fine.
I agree with your video analysis, I am a Army veteran. Logistics plays a huge role in the theatre of combat, it will not be feasible to keep fighting if the supplies run up, idc how good you are as a soldier, little to no supplies while fighting an enemy that's never ending will always result in disaster. Dealing with civlians as well would take away from combat effectiveness. It seems like the soldiers at the CDC could've been remaining soldiers from various units that were either split up or overwhelmed, they managed to converge and rally at the CDC but defending their position was futile especially when ammo is red and communications is ineffective. "You go with the Army you have, not the one you want."
@LNIGO I think the local law enforcement people would be able to control some of it until the military gets involved and both should be able to work together
I think it was more of civilians vs. soldiers. Terrified civilians saw soldiers retreating during Operation Colbalt, so they began attacking with weapons. The deaths caused some to raise, and doctors saw the collapse not by zombies but people and got terrified and ran. when it was over, the soldiers survived but those that did were so few in numbers that they just left with what vehicles they could.
I'd imagine that the soldiers present were either cut off or chose to stay there and draw as many walkers as possible, ending their life as they ran out of bullets
One thing i don't think you've mentioned is the civilian survivors who would be engaging in firefights with the military too. Either through desperation, revenge, mental breaks or sheer stubbornness.
In the world war z book the army looses every battle because they shoot at the chests of targets, that’s the biggest criticism of the walking dead is that the characters have so much plot armor that they get near 100 percent headshots
To be fair, we see in fear season 1 the military figured out pretty quickly headshots were what killed, but yeah, actually landing those headshots on a consistent bases is another story
That's why I don't like the Walking Dead. A bunch of civilians shooting zombies with 100% accuracy at the head and most of them doesn't have experience with guns while the military with many experiences with weapons failed. At least World War Z, civilians were "trained" to become soldiers to shoot at the head with years of training while using appropriate weapons and ammunitions. And at the Battle of Yonker, "grunts" or pre-war soldiers, knew already where to shoot but they weren't trained to do headshots
We keep forgetting, in the early hours of Monument Day, Police and Military would be told what they were facing was Civil Disorder as a result of paranoia so they'd expect to yell out a few orders to disperse,maybe make a few arrests, and it'd all be over. They would not be told they were facing Zombies because the Higher Ups would find the usage of the word "unprofessional "
So 2 things: - the dead soldiers are probably not defenders, but soldiers that got turned elsewhere and were part of the horde. The soldiers defending the CDC most likely got reanimated after they were overrun and thus left the battlefield. - it really bothers me how evenly the corpses are laying around. No piles, but also no "uncovered" spaces. It would be more logical for corpses to be piled up in areas where they meet resistance while other areas would remain mostly free of corpses (i.e. behind a barricade when the defenders were either dead or falling back and not shooting the zombies that much)
Yeah, I think the mental breakdown of troops facing such a bizarre enemy would be a huge deal-breaker in the Walking Dead universe. Not knowing who was dangerous and seeing former comrades rise and attack would shake a lot of people. Imagine having your sister or your dad or best friend die, and then they rise, and you have to "kill" them? Sure, people *eventually* figured it out, but the first 48-72 hours or so would have been insane.
Soilder bodies mixed with walkers could also be fallen soilders from previous battles who joined the ranks of the dead... battle also could have started with soilders turning unknowningly while in defence positions meaning 5/10 soilders in 1 area all needing to be put down at once with the perimeter
There's a reason most stories with slow moving zombies never show how the world fell when there were only 10 zombies among a million people in a city, but then spend their entirety showing how 10 survivors can fight off a million undead.
I think it was more or less the same throughout all the major metro areas, like in Fear when the hospital/campus got overrun... You have an enemy that vastly outnumbers you, doesn't need to sleep, eat or take a bathroom break, and is only dispatched by some sort of head trauma. For ever live person killed it just adds to their ranks, while shrinking the defensive forces. Doesn't matter how slow or clumsy... shear numbers. And honestly, the LAST thing I would opt for is being corralled with tens of thousands of other people in an enclosed area with a deadly outbreak and an armed military overseeing operations. That's a nope from me.
Well that was intense, I wish the Walking Dead did more and made side episodes as to certain events like the the zombie that Rick found crawling in the park in season 1 and you find out she sacrificed herself to save her children.
I think it something like Dead in the Water would be a good way to explain how the military falls. If the ‘flu’ mentioned in fear incapacitates and kills a decent amount of regular military personal the ones we see will have likely killed their former colleagues before, as you point out, killing what looks like normal people. That has to take a toll on them leading to more mistakes and dead.
Tank vs Zombie.... the M1 Abrams can only run for about 8 hours before it runs out of fuel, maybe less in high intensity scenarios. This, and given the fact that supply lines during the literal end of the world would be one of if not the first support systems to go down easily accounts for why tanks don't stack up. Not sure why this isn't addressed more often.
For me I painted a Barnes v Elias type Platoon scenario. Fighting for the soul of Chris. So we'd have an ever widening of two camps doing what they think is right. With one camp trying to save civilians and the other killing anything that moved. We'd focus on our Chris character who is trying to save his mother. Talking to her via a walkie talkie he gave her before he deployed. The tension keeps raising as both camps boil over. Then Chris' mother appears. She has nearly made it to the gate when Barnes shoots her. And then the in fighting shootout begins.
Kirkman's reason for not wanting to expand on the wildfire virus was simply stupid. TLOU managed to explain what caused their apocalypse and made it scary.
There's something else I think we have to consider about all these early outbreak areas we've seen and the fall of all these places early on. The showrunners may have abandoned the idea early when it switched who was running everything but Variant Walkers, while not a huge improvement for the Walkers unlike "Special Infected" from other zombie media, were around and kicking. Some still remembering how to pick up things like rocks, bricks, etc as we seen them do so to destroy the glass of the building Rick, Glenn and them were stuck in.
Bro I love that you're making TWD videos I've watched the show since 2012 and it's sad how the loyalty of the fandom has decreased over the years. I'm glad you love the show like me and can see little details that expand on TWD lore. Keep it up!!
I was living in Atlanta when TWD debuted and it was difficult to suspend my disbelief knowing that "the CDC" was actually the Cobb Performing Arts Centre 5 minutes from my apartment.
i sometimes thought that the living could have played a big role in this scene, for example local residents unable to get out of Atlanta due to military checkpoints, traffic and the dead went to the nearest and presumably last "safe zone", maybe groups with infected family or just the extremely desperate demanded entry to seek shelter in its fortified walls and for a vaccine, tensions boiled over and some of the armed members of these mobs opened fire. While wiped out by the army, possibly being able to take a handful of servicemen out, this severely weakens the armies abilities to defend, and with the firefight, that night or evening a horde from the surrounding city overwhelms them.
I think the main issue with discounting the walker's based on their speed is the soldier's defense was fairly open and more of a checkpoint. I'm no means a military strategist, but that's more effective against the living, where chest/abdominal shots would be lethal. In a large enough mob, the zombies would require precise head shots, as opposed to lighting the enemy up. Not saying you're wrong with the rest, just a consideration 😅
Maybe it wasn't the reanimated infected, but the infection itself that was taking out the soldiers. Maybe the soldiers did not know what the vector was and discovered they were dying of the sickness while they were defending the line.
One thing to mention as well, if the scientists actually did get out and then accidentally run into fire from the soldiers that if they weren't headshot, the virus would have reanimated them and the soldiers would have been easily surrounded if they happened to just walk over them, not knowing that the scientists that they had accidentally killed were gonna come back. It's likely they probably held a line several feet away, where all the dead were piling up before the scientists turned behind or near them and caused a bunch of chaos that broke their line
What another way to make my day even better!!! You know what’s weird to me if you think about it going to a mature city is the worst thing to do for example Atlanta and Los Angeles we all seen it in the show people start rioting and looting then you get people who are already infected you can’t tell who is a person or walker. Plus when saw a flashback scene the military had to kill anyone dead or alive. So me personally I ain’t even going in the cities if it was a zombie apocalypse I’m going on a boat or somewhere safe. Great job on the video! Please can you do Rick about the sheriffs department or the Atlanta police!
@ your welcome and deserve it! I mean listen the Atlanta police saw everything when they were at the hospital for example the bombing and heard the CDC explosion.
I feel the military is always underdeveloped in apocolyapse media. Even after central comman collapses various units and squads would move on their own initiative and become very powerful in their areas
In Shaun Of The Dead this is flipped, the army comes in and easily mows down the infected. A refreshing take on this trope imo. And apparently how an army would actually act, bar a few casualties at the very beginning. But once they figure it out, they'd fix it.
The image these scenes conjured in my head was that the CDC was more a quickfire set up, due to the limited vehicles, barriers and actual defenses. The way I imagined the fall going down was something along the lines of: A panicked mob of civilians are barely kept at bay at an undermanned, under prepared checkpoint, as more forces arrive to try and help secure the point, a walker attack within the mob sends pressure to breaking point, and (It's America, everyone's armed) the civilians draw weapons on the soldiers they perceive as preventing their route to safety. Note that one barrier is moved aside for the tank, and a key thing with tanks is "front towards enemy.", the tank is facing the CDC building. As the soldiers try to get the tank into their perimeter, the civilians open fire, and rush forwards. They kill a number of the soldiers, over running the tank as the crew desperately try to swing the gun before being dragged from their vehicle. The remaining soldiers are falling back, gunning down civilians and taking return fire all the way until they realize they have nowhere to go. All the people that weren't shot in the head inevitably would have gotten up and walked off, explaining the sporadic placement of the bodies.
A couple of ideas I thought of when looking back at the scene; One: The fleeing civilians had massed at the CDC looking for safe haven, while the soldiers were trying to maintain order, the commotion either drew in the hordes or some of the civilians were already infected and turned in the crowd causing the soldiers to panic and start shooting into the crowd which caused the civilians to riot and attack the soldiers as well not understanding what was happening Two: The soldiers were trying to establish a safe zone at the CDC like in FTWD, but they hadn't managed to establish anything significant due to the rapid deterioration of the situation in Atlanta. Then were then ordered to enact Operation Cobalt, only a few would get the orders so when the soldiers were start to mass execute the civilians, infighting and civilian attacks would cause the dead and newly risen to arrive and cause even greater chaos. As well with the scientists fleeing the facility on the belief they were to be extracted finding only death
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 91 | คู่เอก "คมอาวุธ vs อเล็กเซย์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V0RkEfYFsgM/mqdefault.jpg)
Oh boy everything about the CDC in the Walking Dead interests me even thou it's not the Biggest Focus at all
I have to agree the CDC had a lot of info. I wish they could have spent more time there.
Yeah
For me too. I don't know but there's something about CDC that I wish they could have spent more time and maybe with some flashbacks. It is still so serious. The entire CDC storyline is just comes and goes so fast. With just two episodes, they left with so many mystery and questions which we would never find out.
Obviously the U.S. Government and Military of TWD universe were absolute morons. In our reality, the military OWNS THE NIGHT with Night Vision, Thermal, and even plain old Lights. And Ammo wouldn't run out for months if not years. Heck... a decently equipped and armed group of Civilians would have been able to hold the CDC.
Same here
Even though robert kirkman regreted this storyline its still one of my favorites. It closes out the idea a cure will be found and the only thing left is to accept the world for what it is now
I mean, as long as humanity survives, there's always the chance that somewhere in the future we'll find out a cure. But it's very likely that none of the survivors of the old world will be alive to see it.
Yea
@moteroargentino7944 I get your point and I appreciate the optimism but most people don't realise is that a cure would be useless unless it's used on someone who's freshly turned or infected since most zombies are rotting missing organs/flesh/limbs to try and cure those zombies wouldn't work as there too far gone so a cure would only be viable for people who have just turned or infected.
Mind elaborating?
@irishboi7100, well, you turn once you die, right? You can't cure death. So it would only work on infected individuals, not turned.
As a former soldier myself(who yes, thinks it utterly farcical how the military falls so quickly, but hey, it's fiction and fun to imagine), my take is that the CDC itself couldn't have been a planned defended location based on the evidence. There's no attempt at any significant barriers other than a few sandbag walls on the ground level that are not connected. We don't see any fences, coils of C wire and no one seems to have actually put any positions on the roof. It looks like just the main gate had a vehicle check point. So I don't think there was any kind of organized last stand at all, the location of the bodies, the haphazard randomness of them don't point to any sort of battle line at all. It wasn't heavily fortified because it was never expected to be in danger if the city was secured. When the city collapsed so quickly, there was no time to correct this.
What I would expect is that the perimeter of the city itself and checkpoints overstretched the military and the forces we see at the CDC are remnants of the various overrun prepared positions in and around Atlanta, these soldiers would also have been surrounded by panicking civilians. The doctors inside the CDC would have seen not an organized defense, but a routed mob panicking, shooting and fleeing. This would have been after hearing radio and tv broadcasts on the worsening situation and seeing the napalm dropping. That's when they would have bolted into the crowd hoping to get away too.
This is why I love making these videos lol, hearing others perspectives on these scenarios is so interesting.
The idea of a scared mob rushing the cdc instead of walkers is really intriguing, I really wish they would’ve explored these scenarios more.
@@Swell-Films I enjoy your videos for the same reason.
I also agree that I wish they would have explored these events or would greenlight the Fall of Atlanta episode that got cancelled. Fans clearly are more fascinated by the fall itself than most of the Post Apocalyptic survival so it's always strange to me that a show or project like that never made it into full production.
@@grandadmiralzaarin4962
Which branch and what decade where you in?
My dad was in the army 101st and at some point the 2nd ID surfing the late 90s
Yeah this is what I always thought. Not a defensive position but more a rally point.
Former marine here. And with everything going on, these defenses were likely either national guard a combined group of mixed unit leftovers or both. Meaning training and unit cohesion as well as command elements and logistics were put together on short notice and likely uncommunicative after deployment. Given that scenario I’m surprised they did as well as they did. And as they started to realize that they were cut off from supply, reinforcements and exfil, it’s not surprising they put themselves down.
You know what made me wonder about the fall of the CDC a bit more? The lack of fences and other vehicles like Humvees and trucks. Sure there are two tanks and a truck but with the amount of bodies there it makes me wonder if they walked or were dropped in by helicopter which doesn't make much sense. So in my mind there could have been some escape attempts much like we saw in FTWD. Simply because the CDC building would be an important place to protect so with Operation Cobalt happening, panicking civilians and doctors and the undead being attracted to the sounds of the soldiers killing civilians and doctors trying to flee I wouldn't be surprised if some of or the majority of soldiers escaped in a convoy of sorts.
Agree, i mean The Walking Dead kinda mirror to real life so it makes sense if CDC facilities become the most important and well defended place. If you ask me, the collapse of order in walking dead don't make sense. I mean how come from point that everyone lives normal day to Zombie start popping out in one day lead to collapse.
There should be build up to that situation especially in the movie series
It was all a scramble, they had no time to plan and it was a shitshow, hence why it seems like they were so unprepared, and limited, cause they were.
Metro Atlanta's infrastructure would make any physical barriers challenging to maintain. (varying elevation, lack of public transportation leading to congested streets, the busiest airport in the world, roadway bridges, etc...). Also, the security shown at 2:06 does exist IRL at the CDC, so I'm guessing the military protected the facility until it fully locked down and wasn't meant to be long-term. I grew up near the CDC headquarters and have been to both locations in Atlanta; nothing can get in or out without authorization on an average day. They have contingency plans for almost every scenario and would be well-prepared for emergencies (as shown throughout the episode with the food and living facilities).
When the group is evacuating the cdc, you could see another humvee and truck
Um that single tank could have just drove around for a little while and ran over every Walker in the area crushing their skulls. All the other soldiers could have just sat inside the CDC and watched out the windows while a couple guys in the tank systematically took out all of the walkers 😅. The fact those soldiers couldn't figure that out makes them look like the biggest fools ever 😂.
We've been begging for a twd spinoff focusing on the fall of the military early in the apocalypse. The stories and battles would be crazy.
That’s what I thought FTWD was gonna be but then it wasn’t
@@63annushka it WOULD be nice to find out what happened to them all. If ANY of them managed to survive and turn into anything still around an even least looking like used to be pro military by the time the 2 flagship shows ends some decades an a half post collapse like shown here
You can tell they are green survivors as they didnt loot all the weapons and armor lying around outside the CDC.
They should hire frank darabont back and have him do the tank walker episode along with more of Atlanta before the fall
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉YESSSSSSSS
I'm still pissed that they fired him and scrapped that idea to this day.
Agree
Well, that’s obvious. Hell, they should hire Frank Darabont to reboot the whole thing.
It was a downward spiral after they fired Frank Darabont. The series would’ve been a LOT better had he stayed on. That’s why they had to retcon the walkers into “variant”because he knew the semi sentient walkers were scarier.
It’s so stupid to me how Rick and co. didn’t even bother to loot the surrounding area before or after they left the cdc. Automatic weapons and ammunition was literally shown to be all around there. The group could’ve been armed to the teeth already by the beginning of season 2.
It bothers me many times during the series anyway. Over all the episodes they left so many weapons just there. I get ammunition would be an issue. But like Rick said to Carl in season 4. Every bullet counts. So doesn’t matter if you don’t have ammo, you have a gun. Never know when you find some ammunition.
They did that after the prison too. When Daryl and Beth left, Daryl literally carried an M4A1, after they went into the woods together he only has his crossbow left. Same with the Shotgun Carl has after the prison. There were plenty of guns all around. It just annoys me sometimes.
Here here
True, it was probably done to rise the stakes, but still annoying.
In the CDC at least, it made sense. When they arrived, it was getting dark, they couldn't see well, there was some walkers roaming around, and they had no other place to go. Basically it was not the time to start looting.
And when they left, the whole place was about to blow up, and afterwards it would be hard to find something salvageable among the burning ruins, plus that big explosion would draw every walker in the vicinity.
Ammunition really isn't an issue. Making it is painfully easy.
maybe it was too heavy
@@petthequeenofmaddness8592 too heavy only really matters if they had NO vehicles. They wouldn't regress to working vehicles being relatively rare or in short supply with qualified mechanics an needing horses, wagons or walking everywhere till the LATE, Late seasons. An by then if they ranged out enough an looked in the right areas enough decent vehicles were probably STILL around. They should a easily been able to find drivable vics way back in the first 2 or 3 seasons. Gassed, keys an all probably. Think it's just in times of stress MASS MAJORITY of people STOP thinking an start running on pure route instinct an training IF they've trained specific things so much it becomes instinctive responses... An muscle memory. There's many indicators as such. Given ONLY a few in this episode have even a familiarity with that sorta training it sorta makes sense they just booked. But agree they should a least grabbed every weapon an ammo they could or anything useful that happened to be right in front of them if they thought it'd aid in their survival. Maybe fighting off a walker hoard or aiding more mundane survival tasks later
I wish the Walking Dead explored the CDC more. Always felt like it was a plot line that was neglected/ignored.
I'm sure if frank derabont remained show runer he would have expanded on it as same as he planned to with the tank walker it really anoysy me that we ner go a full episode dedicated to the fall of atl it would have probably been my favorite episode as I love bacstory
Thanks for explaining the morality points the military would have to face during a catastrophe like this one. People forget that soldiers are just every day humans too. Asking them to go destroy what they love and are protecting is an unfathomable ask. There would be a lot of personnel hesitating or going AWOL
Absolutely, not to mention they more than likely were fearing the fate of their family’s during this time as well
And don't forget, there'd be a lot of jobsworth Officers and NCOs.
Although, yeah,I expect they'd only be throwing their weight around to stop themselves from going AWOL.
I always wanted to know the story behind the DShK machine gun on one of the sand bag emplacements. That’s a Russian weapon system. It’s highly unlikely US forces would have one and more unlikely it would be fielded.
In reality it’s most likely a mistake by the set decorators. Or a “we will just substitute an M2 for this. Nobody will notice if it’s in the background” situation.
In universe I like to think that maybe a museum had one in their archive or a random collector brought it out in an attempt to help defend the CDC.
That’s a really interesting take, really dark if you think about how the military were ordered to execute civilians.
Maybe this collector arrived with the best intentions only to get shot down on the spot and stripped of his weapons anyway, Whether they wanted to or not.
Yea saw the DSHK and figured yea this is def some set flaw they didn't mind committing to. Probably didnt have a m2 to put up in the spot and somehow hd a DSHK available. Your explanation works, the desperation showing them deploying non govt issued weapons to defend points.
Budget my friend low budget lol 😅 same why they using m60 tanks and not m1 Abrams lol
@ChrisStephens-ij5yi tbf the m60s can be because they're pulling national guard and old inventory to cover the country in response to wildfire. I don't think any of these people really thought they'd have to use them.
I was about to comment something similar. My theory was it could have been confiscated from a cartel or international pirates. Sitting in evidence, it was only deployed because the military needed absolutely anything that could shoot at that time when supplies were dwindling. Sure, it was foreign and dated equipment, but if it had ammo and still shot. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
I love these lore videos. They've reanimated (pardon the pun) my love for TWD. Thanks for the great content.
Thanks for watching! I’m glad you’ve been able to get back into it
Ya
Same! I gained a new appreciation for the design and all the hard work behind the scenes on the show.
What frustrates me is all the tanks parked in this scene hatches open. Even though these are probably Chieftans dressed up as M-1A1s they're supposed to be M-1s. There is a coax 7.62mm machine gun that is stabilized with the 120mm cannon on the turret. The tank crews would/should have been smart enough to button up the hatches when walkers got close enough and just continue to unload on the horde from the coax gun or using canister shots from the 120mm cannon. They should have a full loadout of 42 120mm cannon rounds and 10,000-14,000 rounds of 7.62mm belted ammo. Using the coax there is little to no recoil from it. The gunner can just aim at head level sweeping the turret back and forth like scythe on a horde. The only real issue would be the 240b overheating. Even then they could or should have kept the spare barrel(s) on board. I get it, you don't get to have the cool badass everyman survivor story if an armored battalion cuts down the entire Atlanta horde like a combine harvesster, but showing how inept the US Military is theoughout the series is just frustrating.
people forget mine flail tanks exist
literally heavy steel chains spinning around in front of the tank with incredible force and speed. meant for setting off mines safely, but would literally crush zombies into pulp.
@hydroxide5507 Yeah. My Engineer Company in the Army had an Area Clearance Platoon attached to us whose entire job was using the M1271 Mine Clearance Vehicle which has a similar flail system attached to it.
I want to say at different depots there was flail attachments for dozers and backhoe type vehicles as well. The advantage for the M-1 based Combat Engineering vehicles was that they were still a 60 ton Abrams even if the chains got gummed up. Some of the Desert Storm vets in my unit mentioned that there were more than a few Iraqis show got the zipper tread treatment when they got in front of M-1s or Bradleys.
@@haiwin224 reminds me of that netflix movie leave the world behind when they had an interstate clogged with hacked teslas. My first thought was how any CEV or tank could have easily plowed a path
I was really frustrated when i saw those outdated chieftains 😂
@@ThunderDawg0 Unless a series has direct US DOD support (pro military message that is good for recruiting etc) you don't actually see real M-1s in use. So anytime you see a M-1 Abrams on screen it's normally a Chieftan dressed up with vis mods to look like a M-1.
This was my favorite moment in the early days of the show. No hope for a cure, no help from the military, nothing more to do then blow up the one last Beacon of The Old World. From this point on its an entirely new world with new threats, both living and dead. Its a world where everything goes and nothing is certain beyond the fact that death is now around every single corner
I also wonder if any soldiers would have gotten out when they had the chance or if they would all go down in one last desperate stand. If they did manage to get out we can only hope that a few of them still had their souls intact and would try to help people.
I think if they ever want to have another shot at exploring the early days of the outbreak they should think of showing how things went in Canada since we know a few Canadian cities were also hit during Cobalt. You could even have a few members of both militaries meeting up in Maine or maybe even Halifax to compare notes and try to set up something
Great video man, keep them coming!
Interesting idea
@@connorhilchie2779 might make a good fan fix video/movie too..
it depends on what area's of Canada were hit like we have more tractors here then we have gun's, I also wonder if the cold would slow the zombies down or if coyotes would go after them
in my opinion the ammount of soldier corpses at the initial fortifications suggests that the battle started not because of a horde coming but something I find more likely days after operation kobalt.
It might have started with a group of armed looters trying to get to the last place that could have had a cure or at least supplies. Most likely in the night because this would make the soldiers more likely to slip up (due to the visibility and over all fatigue).
The looters were most likely pushed off with some losses but what this shootout bring was a horde of undead that then swarmed the cdc drawn to the noise. This would put the camp into even more chaos as now they had to deal with the undead possibly minutes after they just fought off the looters.
They would fight with whatever resources they had left yet the darkness and exhaustion would most likely kick in leaving the soldiers desperately trying to fight back.
That would last until the the door to the CDC opened and group of doctors and scientists ran out making the soldiers split between trying to keep them out of the undead and trying to fight the horde.
Seeing that they had some of the scientists some soldiers might have decided to avoid getting completely overrun and pack any remaining soldiers and scientists that were left onto the trucks and Humvees. (I deduce that there were more vehicles there when the army set up due to the ammount of corpses seen in the shots)
This is supported by the lack of a big last stand at the entrance to the CDC.
My day just got better
In combat, tanks have _VERY little_ situational awareness, especially in cities and urban areas. Tanks require the infantry or infantry fighting vehicles to be their eyes and ears. There's really nothing a tank can do in those settings. Also, a tank shooting with it's 120mm gun or a 105mm (looks like an M60 in season 1) in an urban area will risk overpressure and friendly fire. It's interesting how we don't see a lot of M2 Bradleys or the Strykers with a 50 cal which I believe is more effective on taking out the walkers. I hope this add some insight to your last thoughts!
Great points!
its a chieftain not M60 but either way you are right they have little use other than maybe making civilians think twice about rioting or attacking them, though they would have their MGs to at least be able to do something, usually MBTs have a coaxial MG and on or more mounted on top.
I feel like a nore fitting explanation is riots during the outbreak/ civil disobedience it would answer alot of the questions like the dead bodies and the gunshot wounds.
I think that’s possible, although we don’t see any civilians that look armed (from what I’ve noticed) so I lean more so towards them being self inflicted or friendly fire wounds
It always frustrated me how they left a great deal of guns (M4A1s, M16s, possibly others) on the vast majority of the corpses. From the camera angles, I could see a large amount of them just laying there. Why wouldn't they take them? Even if there was no ammunition, they could use the guns for spare parts or other stuff that would be useful and then be able to use it when ammunition came plentiful for that particular caliber. Just don't understand that.
Here here
@@cookudysu90 Hear hear!
@@joanneblowey3001 the same with Dshka HMG and the Challenger one tanks which was stupid!
Surely somewhere in the world of The walking dead there would have been a tank followed by a couple of petrol tankers not even having to fire a shot just running over zombies with a large speaker at the front it
Bodies would get stuck in the tracks quickly causing the tank to stop so that's probably why
@leo-uv1is dammit the army should have invested in monster truck thousands of the bastards
I thought the same thing. But that would require adequate coordination and a solid chain of command to organize and execute that plan. For what we saw, the military was dispatched in relatively small teams to secure specific areas (safe zones, hospitals, schools, checkpoints, etc). They didn't perform any large scale land operation to retake the entire city, probably due to the nation wide chaos. Basically at any location where there was people, walkers could appear.
If they had done it, I guess they would need to modify the tank to prevent damage to the tracks, or use industrial vehicles instead. A steamroller or several bulldozers would be perfect. Even if they don't kill the walkers, they break the horde and immobilize them, so foot soldiers can just walk behind finishing them off without the risk of getting surrounded by the dead.
Just running the zombies over would not be effective, aside from gunking up the treads, you are more likely to crush and tear off limbs and not crack skulls. Leaving you with many crawlers for every zombie you kill. Meaning you have to do mop up which can be more dangerous as you wont always be able to see who is dead and who is a crawler that cant move much.
As for the tankers, i would not want to be the sucker who need to get out and connect the hose to refuel the tank. Keep in mind that while you do this the tank cant move at all and the zombies will still be drawn to the site as that is where a lot of loud noises have been made for a while.
@TheMjohann I would take crawlers over walkers any day of the week. They're only dangerous when you're not expecting them, but here the cleanup team is specifically looking for them, well aware that they need to make sure all heads are destroyed. And they can take all the time they need, because the walkers can't even walk.
Refueling could be done by just retreating to a safe position, or if the vehicle broke down, waiting until the rest of the vehicles and infantry (this operation would require more than one) clean the area and they can safely dismount. They would carry supplies to last a few days if needed. And they could even attempt an airevac worst case scenario, assuming there's enough room above. But yes, ultimately the drivers would have the most risky job.
I really hope AMC does a 3 season or longer series of just the collapse of society. From the perspectives of police, Doctors, Morticians, EMS, MILITARY, government, and just regular people. With the vives of TWD season 1 and 2, as well as Fear twd season 1. Im tired of these new post apocalyptic slop they've been pushing out.
They won't do it for a few reasons.
> Fear The Walking Dead was supposed to show a complete collapse, and you've probably seen what they did.
> Too small a budget
> And of course Kirkman won't let that happen, because that fat pig doesn't want the TWD universe to be expanded with more interesting stories, instead preferring to keep revolving around the theme of "survival".
@@macedon379calling him a fat pig because he doesnt want to do that is wild he literally created twd because he wanted zombie media about life after the apocalypse starts and how to adapt to it. If you dont like it dont watch it instead of going wah wah like a baby and throwing out insults. Better yet create something yourself🤣🤣🤣
I've always wondered what the story of the show would be like if Jenner lived. What conversations he'd have with Milton and Eugene. Imagine he got taken by Jadis to be taken to the CRM since he'd be the last scientist from the old world who studied the wildfire virus
I think your analysis is pretty solid. The mental anguish and physical drain of the soldiers is key to understanding what happened at the CDC. They faced a never-ending fight with decreasing numbers and supplies against an enemy whose numbers increased by leaps and bounds every hour. No matter how many they put down in the wider battles for Atlanta, their foe just kept coming and coming and coming. And seeing friends, family and fellow soldiers among the newly dead had to be devastating to their morale.
Love these atmospheric explorations! Keep them going!
Perfect video drop for a work day, Ty is killing it yet again (like Jenner tried to do to the group)😂
The lack of barricades and no established parameter has me believe that this was a make shift ALAMO
The 2 tanks aren’t even the type you’d want to defend an AO like the CDC.
This looks about as rag tag as it gets but they were forced to stay there due to overwhelming losses
There's bits of lore regarding the CDC research, spread over the franchise material. Josh, one of the first Lilly Caul affairs during the apocalypse tells how one day he come home to find his mom dead and Swat teams guarding the perimeter, with hazmat folks collecting samples from the dead walkers who killed his mom. Later in Daryl and Merle PC game, you can also visist a Hospital where doctors have been harvesting samples for the CDC, and later at the Stadium Evac lvl, you can heard radio chatter about the exfiltration of a bitten scienstist (Dr. Jenner wife). So my guess is, they tried to collect samples to conduct studies, and Jenner lost his wife cause of her doing field work, and in the end the best sample was from her own preserved brain tissue, with the other ones collected being too rotten and necrotic to be of any use. And most probably when Atlanta garrison was overrun, the doctors either left or commit suicide like Jenner tells Rick.
Because I only started watching The Walking Dead a few years ago, I didn't realize that some of the scenes actually did have explanations in the form of webisodes. Like the bicycle girl from episode 1. Or the red machete.
if it isnt my favirot twd youtuber back with a banger!!! keep it up I love the content :)
Hey thanks so much!
It would’ve been interesting if when the scientists fled, the soldiers retreated inside with how many scientists they could retrieve without further causalities to the unit. They could survive inside and venture out for resources.
Man im loving these videos. Keep it up! I love the walking dead and im so glad I found a channel with the same passion
Hey thanks so much I appreciate you watching!
Thx Bro, i am in LOVE WITH THIS SERIES. Next you could try with Atlanta's Camp in the abandoned Building ( where Daryl and Carol find the Police). Or the Battle scene in the First episode
Fun fact close to the CDC there was a toy r us store and sadly it’s not there no more god love that year especially when Georgia was quiet and peaceful place
The soldiers making a final stand at the gates only to be distracted by scared scientists running outside and getting caught in the crossfire makes for a interesting visual
What I think happened is the escaping scientists left with the few remaining soldiers, explaining both why some soldiers are dead.
Alternatively, other survivors had the same idea as the group, but Jenner didn't let them in, and they left or died.
The man, the myth, the legend Ty has posted another goated video!!
Haha too kind!
@ not a problem homie !! Also do you think you might set up a discord server eventually?
One thing that always amazes me they carry that bag of guns from the sheriffs office. But yet I’ve watched parking dead for a series numerous times. Outside the CDC they have all these guns and heavy machine guns all sitting I’ve never seen anybody walk over firearms and not pick something up if they’re already short on food, ammo and weapons.
The M2 browning mg is actually extremely heavy weighing about 80lbs and with the bipods adding even more weight so it wouldn’t be practical to grab them and take them with plus the ammo would likely be spent. As for the other weapons they would likely not be in a serviceable condition to be rely ably used depending on how long they have been left there in the elements at the cdc and chances are the group at this stage would not have the means/supplies to maintain and clean them. It would be a better idea to just leave them instead of taking them with adding additional luggage. However not grabbing ammo is pretty dumb
Very fascinating video. I loved the CDC arc and interesting to see your probably accurate assessment of it. Always wondered why no soldiers went inside with the Doctor for survival and to further protect the facility
Once again Ty Swell, another phenomenal video!
I’ve always been super curious what happened outside the CDC with the military detachment send to guard it. Cause you have dead soldiers, two tanks and even a couple of machine guns still completely loaded. Yet there were corpses everywhere.
When Rick is riding through Atlanta there’s a shot where you can see a 50.Cal machine gun Fully Loaded. which is interesting.
Thank you once again for another amazing video.
I'm no hardcore Walking Dead fan(more of a Resident Evil typa fan lol), but I always thought that the walkers in the beginning actually ran for the first few hours/days and that's how they were able to do such substantial damage so quickly. Not to say slow walkers aren't still a threat but I feel like them starting out pretty quick and then as they decayed they slowed to true walkers.
Idk if there's any proof but it's a fun theory even if it has no weight behind it. Great vid!
Awesome video!))
Please, make a new one about the British tunnel checkpoint in "Daryl Dixon"🙏
I've always been a huge fan of the military perspective in this universe, I'm mad we never got a show or a movie about it lol
This was awesome, great work!
Can you do the hospital where rick was in next?
What I don't get is why no one collected any of the M16s we see scattered all over the area. That's substantially more firepower than they'd have for a while. It's not like the guns went bad, they would've still worked just fine.
PLEASE DO MORE VIDEOS LIKE THIS ITS SO ADDICTING TO WATCHH
I agree with your video analysis, I am a Army veteran. Logistics plays a huge role in the theatre of combat, it will not be feasible to keep fighting if the supplies run up, idc how good you are as a soldier, little to no supplies while fighting an enemy that's never ending will always result in disaster. Dealing with civlians as well would take away from combat effectiveness. It seems like the soldiers at the CDC could've been remaining soldiers from various units that were either split up or overwhelmed, they managed to converge and rally at the CDC but defending their position was futile especially when ammo is red and communications is ineffective.
"You go with the Army you have, not the one you want."
Great points! I also imagined it would be made up of soldiers from various units, that could contribute to the disorganization on the battlefield
I love these videos it’s like rewatching the show but pointing out all the stuff I missed 😂
If we actually do see a zombie apocalypse, hopefully things would get handled better by police and the military
Supply lines that's the key word if they stay up we will be fine
@LNIGO I think the local law enforcement people would be able to control some of it until the military gets involved and both should be able to work together
I think it was more of civilians vs. soldiers. Terrified civilians saw soldiers retreating during Operation Colbalt, so they began attacking with weapons. The deaths caused some to raise, and doctors saw the collapse not by zombies but people and got terrified and ran.
when it was over, the soldiers survived but those that did were so few in numbers that they just left with what vehicles they could.
I'd imagine that the soldiers present were either cut off or chose to stay there and draw as many walkers as possible, ending their life as they ran out of bullets
One thing i don't think you've mentioned is the civilian survivors who would be engaging in firefights with the military too. Either through desperation, revenge, mental breaks or sheer stubbornness.
These are easily your best videos.. keep em coming bro!
Thanks mate!
In the world war z book the army looses every battle because they shoot at the chests of targets, that’s the biggest criticism of the walking dead is that the characters have so much plot armor that they get near 100 percent headshots
To be fair, we see in fear season 1 the military figured out pretty quickly headshots were what killed, but yeah, actually landing those headshots on a consistent bases is another story
That's why I don't like the Walking Dead. A bunch of civilians shooting zombies with 100% accuracy at the head and most of them doesn't have experience with guns while the military with many experiences with weapons failed. At least World War Z, civilians were "trained" to become soldiers to shoot at the head with years of training while using appropriate weapons and ammunitions. And at the Battle of Yonker, "grunts" or pre-war soldiers, knew already where to shoot but they weren't trained to do headshots
I wished they would have focused more on the CDC like it would have been cool to know more of what they knew.
As always good video keep up the good work
Another great video! I am very much enjoying this series, please keep 'em comin'!
Will do! Thanks so much for watching!
Ugh I loveeeeeeeee this series 😩🙏🏻🩵 we totally need more TWD campfire stories too!!
We keep forgetting, in the early hours of Monument Day, Police and Military would be told what they were facing was Civil Disorder as a result of paranoia so they'd expect to yell out a few orders to disperse,maybe make a few arrests, and it'd all be over.
They would not be told they were facing Zombies because the Higher Ups would find the usage of the word "unprofessional "
At last the scenario that I've been waiting for has been uploaded on TH-cam❤
So 2 things:
- the dead soldiers are probably not defenders, but soldiers that got turned elsewhere and were part of the horde. The soldiers defending the CDC most likely got reanimated after they were overrun and thus left the battlefield.
- it really bothers me how evenly the corpses are laying around. No piles, but also no "uncovered" spaces. It would be more logical for corpses to be piled up in areas where they meet resistance while other areas would remain mostly free of corpses (i.e. behind a barricade when the defenders were either dead or falling back and not shooting the zombies that much)
I love that S2 Darabont premiere proposal. I hate how AMC treated Darabont. 😢
2:28 walker on the right looks like Carol
Yeah, I think the mental breakdown of troops facing such a bizarre enemy would be a huge deal-breaker in the Walking Dead universe. Not knowing who was dangerous and seeing former comrades rise and attack would shake a lot of people. Imagine having your sister or your dad or best friend die, and then they rise, and you have to "kill" them? Sure, people *eventually* figured it out, but the first 48-72 hours or so would have been insane.
Soilder bodies mixed with walkers could also be fallen soilders from previous battles who joined the ranks of the dead...
battle also could have started with soilders turning unknowningly while in defence positions meaning 5/10 soilders in 1 area all needing to be put down at once with the perimeter
There's a reason most stories with slow moving zombies never show how the world fell when there were only 10 zombies among a million people in a city, but then spend their entirety showing how 10 survivors can fight off a million undead.
I think it was more or less the same throughout all the major metro areas, like in Fear when the hospital/campus got overrun... You have an enemy that vastly outnumbers you, doesn't need to sleep, eat or take a bathroom break, and is only dispatched by some sort of head trauma. For ever live person killed it just adds to their ranks, while shrinking the defensive forces. Doesn't matter how slow or clumsy... shear numbers. And honestly, the LAST thing I would opt for is being corralled with tens of thousands of other people in an enclosed area with a deadly outbreak and an armed military overseeing operations. That's a nope from me.
Love these videos
Hey hay hay…another awesome video. Thanks bro
Thanks for watching bro!
Well that was intense, I wish the Walking Dead did more and made side episodes as to certain events like the the zombie that Rick found crawling in the park in season 1 and you find out she sacrificed herself to save her children.
I think it something like Dead in the Water would be a good way to explain how the military falls. If the ‘flu’ mentioned in fear incapacitates and kills a decent amount of regular military personal the ones we see will have likely killed their former colleagues before, as you point out, killing what looks like normal people. That has to take a toll on them leading to more mistakes and dead.
Tank vs Zombie.... the M1 Abrams can only run for about 8 hours before it runs out of fuel, maybe less in high intensity scenarios. This, and given the fact that supply lines during the literal end of the world would be one of if not the first support systems to go down easily accounts for why tanks don't stack up. Not sure why this isn't addressed more often.
That's a chieftain tank btw
It would've been so much better if they had focused more on the outbreak and the downfall, instead of post-apocalypse
I don’t know about focusing on the outbreak over the story told, but I think more flashbacks would have really complimented the plot they had going
Notification gang wya
For me I painted a Barnes v Elias type Platoon scenario. Fighting for the soul of Chris.
So we'd have an ever widening of two camps doing what they think is right.
With one camp trying to save civilians and the other killing anything that moved.
We'd focus on our Chris character who is trying to save his mother. Talking to her via a walkie talkie he gave her before he deployed.
The tension keeps raising as both camps boil over. Then Chris' mother appears. She has nearly made it to the gate when Barnes shoots her.
And then the in fighting shootout begins.
The battle of Yonkers from the WWZ book is very enlightening
Finally, we can hear about this but what's so funny is, that they had tanks? Im pretty sure they can hold ground if they did
i never thought about the “they get what they got” never getting supplied again is a scary thought especially in that situation
Kirkman's reason for not wanting to expand on the wildfire virus was simply stupid. TLOU managed to explain what caused their apocalypse and made it scary.
Fear was the walkers biggest wepon as the concept of Zombies before monument day was never imagined...it must of bee n terrifying.
There's something else I think we have to consider about all these early outbreak areas we've seen and the fall of all these places early on. The showrunners may have abandoned the idea early when it switched who was running everything but Variant Walkers, while not a huge improvement for the Walkers unlike "Special Infected" from other zombie media, were around and kicking. Some still remembering how to pick up things like rocks, bricks, etc as we seen them do so to destroy the glass of the building Rick, Glenn and them were stuck in.
Bro I love that you're making TWD videos I've watched the show since 2012 and it's sad how the loyalty of the fandom has decreased over the years. I'm glad you love the show like me and can see little details that expand on TWD lore. Keep it up!!
Great video man 👍
Awesome job, as always! Keep on making those and if you run out of scenes from TWD, make up you own mysteries ;D
I was living in Atlanta when TWD debuted and it was difficult to suspend my disbelief knowing that "the CDC" was actually the Cobb Performing Arts Centre 5 minutes from my apartment.
i sometimes thought that the living could have played a big role in this scene, for example local residents unable to get out of Atlanta due to military checkpoints, traffic and the dead went to the nearest and presumably last "safe zone", maybe groups with infected family or just the extremely desperate demanded entry to seek shelter in its fortified walls and for a vaccine, tensions boiled over and some of the armed members of these mobs opened fire. While wiped out by the army, possibly being able to take a handful of servicemen out, this severely weakens the armies abilities to defend, and with the firefight, that night or evening a horde from the surrounding city overwhelms them.
I think the main issue with discounting the walker's based on their speed is the soldier's defense was fairly open and more of a checkpoint. I'm no means a military strategist, but that's more effective against the living, where chest/abdominal shots would be lethal.
In a large enough mob, the zombies would require precise head shots, as opposed to lighting the enemy up.
Not saying you're wrong with the rest, just a consideration 😅
Maybe it wasn't the reanimated infected, but the infection itself that was taking out the soldiers. Maybe the soldiers did not know what the vector was and discovered they were dying of the sickness while they were defending the line.
The cdc, ts19 is one of the best episodes I put it up there with the pilot and beside the dying fire
Hands down my favorite series on youtube
Haha too kind!
One thing to mention as well, if the scientists actually did get out and then accidentally run into fire from the soldiers that if they weren't headshot, the virus would have reanimated them and the soldiers would have been easily surrounded if they happened to just walk over them, not knowing that the scientists that they had accidentally killed were gonna come back. It's likely they probably held a line several feet away, where all the dead were piling up before the scientists turned behind or near them and caused a bunch of chaos that broke their line
Totally agree with your final conclusions.
What another way to make my day even better!!! You know what’s weird to me if you think about it going to a mature city is the worst thing to do for example Atlanta and Los Angeles we all seen it in the show people start rioting and looting then you get people who are already infected you can’t tell who is a person or walker. Plus when saw a flashback scene the military had to kill anyone dead or alive. So me personally I ain’t even going in the cities if it was a zombie apocalypse I’m going on a boat or somewhere safe. Great job on the video! Please can you do Rick about the sheriffs department or the Atlanta police!
Without a doubt a city would be the worst place to be during the outbreak lol. Thanks for watching mate! I can definitely look into those topics!
@ your welcome and deserve it! I mean listen the Atlanta police saw everything when they were at the hospital for example the bombing and heard the CDC explosion.
THESE VIDEOS ARE SO COOL
Haha thank you? New one tomorrow!
Babe wake up! Ty just uploaded another atmospheric breakdown!
When I watch The walking dead, this episode was one of my favorites because of the surrounding area
I feel the military is always underdeveloped in apocolyapse media. Even after central comman collapses various units and squads would move on their own initiative and become very powerful in their areas
In Shaun Of The Dead this is flipped, the army comes in and easily mows down the infected. A refreshing take on this trope imo. And apparently how an army would actually act, bar a few casualties at the very beginning. But once they figure it out, they'd fix it.
The image these scenes conjured in my head was that the CDC was more a quickfire set up, due to the limited vehicles, barriers and actual defenses. The way I imagined the fall going down was something along the lines of: A panicked mob of civilians are barely kept at bay at an undermanned, under prepared checkpoint, as more forces arrive to try and help secure the point, a walker attack within the mob sends pressure to breaking point, and (It's America, everyone's armed) the civilians draw weapons on the soldiers they perceive as preventing their route to safety. Note that one barrier is moved aside for the tank, and a key thing with tanks is "front towards enemy.", the tank is facing the CDC building. As the soldiers try to get the tank into their perimeter, the civilians open fire, and rush forwards. They kill a number of the soldiers, over running the tank as the crew desperately try to swing the gun before being dragged from their vehicle. The remaining soldiers are falling back, gunning down civilians and taking return fire all the way until they realize they have nowhere to go. All the people that weren't shot in the head inevitably would have gotten up and walked off, explaining the sporadic placement of the bodies.
A couple of ideas I thought of when looking back at the scene;
One: The fleeing civilians had massed at the CDC looking for safe haven, while the soldiers were trying to maintain order, the commotion either drew in the hordes or some of the civilians were already infected and turned in the crowd causing the soldiers to panic and start shooting into the crowd which caused the civilians to riot and attack the soldiers as well not understanding what was happening
Two: The soldiers were trying to establish a safe zone at the CDC like in FTWD, but they hadn't managed to establish anything significant due to the rapid deterioration of the situation in Atlanta. Then were then ordered to enact Operation Cobalt, only a few would get the orders so when the soldiers were start to mass execute the civilians, infighting and civilian attacks would cause the dead and newly risen to arrive and cause even greater chaos. As well with the scientists fleeing the facility on the belief they were to be extracted finding only death
Great video. Love these. Any plans for a campfire story again? I've watched all of them.
I honestly wanted the CDC to be explored much much more. They did the CDC dirty with just 2 episodes
Their was a lot of walkers at CDC and one scientist lived.