Yikes. Lumping Robocop in with Armageddon and referring to Gojira as a "cheesy horror" is a bad look for a channel dedicated to film. The sentiment that all blockbusters are inherently bad/not cinema is such a year 1 film student kinda vibe.
I don't think that about blockbusters at all. The point here (which I could've communicated better) is that blockbusters don't fit in with Criterion's "brand," or at least its reputation as being snooty and elitist, and so seeing something like Armageddon on the list might make one do a double-take. (And see my comment elsewhere about Gojira-bad choice on my part, should've gone with something like The Blob.)
@@reckonedopinionsYou communicated it just fine. The commenter just wasn’t listening because he is a fanboy who felt butthurt by hearing you mention “Robocop” in the same breath as a Michael Bay movie. Fun fact: NASA does not actually use miles per hour when discussing the speed of a rocket, because they are scientists who understand the metric system.
@reckonedopinions "I don't think about blockbusters at all" says a lot about you and this channel. Any fan of film can appreciate the medium in all it's forms. There's good and bad across genres and film budgets. Criterion, as a purveyor of film as an artform and invested in the history of the film completely understands this as an institution. I don't even like Armageddon but I fully understand it's significance and why they've included it. How can anyone take you seriously as a film commentator (in a sea of filmbro YT channels) when you show such a shallow understanding of the medium as a whole? Lame as hell.
@@reecerobertson4986 You've misquoted my reply here: not "I don't think about blockbusters at all," but "I don't think THAT about blockbusters at all," in response to your assertion that I think blockbusters are inherently bad. Again, I don't believe that at all, and yes, there are good ones and bad ones and monumentally great ones and painfully awful ones, and they need to be considered as much as anything else in film history.
I'm sorry, but you lose all credibility when you lump RoboCop in with Armageddon and The Rock. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy both Armageddon and The Rock, but RoboCop is a perfect movie. A cinematic masterpiece! Just because it has elements of an action/sci fi exploitation movie, doesn't mean that it's not also a really deep piece of cinema with something important to say.
2:30 Just a note that LaserDisc was not digital video. The video was stored as an analog signal, though the audio and some other tracks could be stored digitally.
Oh, interesting! Thank you for the correction on that. Knowing helps explain some things about the technology, such as how come the discs are as large as they are with relatively less content storage.
I think you’re overlooking the fact that Armageddon got a Criterion release because it was, and remains, a textbook example of the Hollywood blockbuster, of what the masses hunger to see. It may not be a great - or even good - film, but it is a very significant one, culturally speaking.
Also people forget that michael bay is an actual auteur. There is a lovely eassay from his film school teacher in the criterion site. Like say what you will about him thematically fitting the collection, but his films are HIS films and identifiable a mile away. He's not a non descript journey man like shawn levy. Finally armageddon is a working class epic, and that rocks.
I get the head scratch of Robocop being in the collection. However, I am really happy that it was one. When you really watch the movie and see it’s not just another 80’s action film, it’s something really special. It’s brutal but their is so much humanity and sorrow to the character that the robot becomes the most human character in a world overrun by consumerism and corruption.
@@tylerthompson632 I really like the satire in it too. It's basically Judge Dredd. The violence is so over the top that - with the exception of Murphy's death - you can't really take it seriously.
Cutting to the original “Gojira” when you said “cheesy horror” is ridiculous. Gojira was a landmark film that is an incredibly potent allegory for the devastation Japan faced after the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Sure the special effects are dated today, but to call it “cheesy horror” is to willfully ignore the film’s blatant text. It’s a serious film with serious dramatic heft and heavy themes.
I've always seen Criterion as a distributor that put out highly auteur films, and Armageddon is kinda a big auteur film. I mean you can't deny Michael Bay's style is immediately distinguishable and the movie is fully a work of his own creative vision lol
"A far better picture and sound that VHS tapes ever could"... near the end of its life D-VHS was released, it stored digital HD video and audio on VHS tapes
The licensing deal that Disney had with criterion stated that any work that criterion did would revert back to Disney after the License lapsed. So when you buy Armegeddon or The Rock on a Disney Blu ray- it *IS* the Criterion version.
In the UK the two disc special editions of both The Rock and Armageddon were the Criterion releases. The Rock even had the Criterion Collection logo on the main menus and Armageddon even printed the Criterion Collection logo on the spine… alas no number. I wonder if they still hold the rights to these films or have Disney taken them back, would be interesting to see if Disney does a Wall-E and license these rights to Criterion.
I proudly own Criterion Collection Armageddon DVD and I will defend this film forever.... also, the Criterion release is the only way to see the Director's Cut of the film, which has some great scenes with Harry Stamper and his father among others. People can complain about the movie all they want, but for me it's a great example of the 90's American Blockbuster... It's a "Men on a Mission" movie, a "Disaster" movie, a "rag tag group of people" movie, a "Humanity fighting against a common enemy with insurmountable odds" movie, It's cheesy, it has a random gun scene, It's visually and audibly loud, it has a ton of heart, the characters are fun, the cinematography, especially in the montage scenes where it's showing everyone around the world, mimicked classic LIFE and National Geographic lifestyle photography and it graced us with the line "He's got space dementia".... it deserved to be in the Criterion Collection... now I just wish they release it on Blu-ray/4K.
Why are some official prerecorded DVDs purple? They are supposedly normal DVDs but seem to be DVD-R?. My BluRay player often rejects them or I get the warning "unrecognized format". Pop it in and out again and sometimes the DVD might play ,eventually. Sometimes. These PURPLE DVDs seem to be a step down in quality from regular DVDs. I'm having trouble finding anything online concerning my issue with these Purple DVDs. Does anyone have any knowledge on this subject?
Hopefully they’ll put out 4K restorations of their Laserdisc catalog in the near future (since there are many that desperately need it, like This Is Spinal Tap and Robocop).
Why isn't All The President's Men, Schindler's List, Waterloo 1970, American Graffiti, Napoleon 1927, The Triplets of Belleville in the Criterion Collection?
Some things only exist as a warning to others. Armageddon exists because it is legendary - legendarily bad. And one far future day, when they are cataloging the moving images of the late 20th century, there it will stand, stating loudly "This Thing Right Here? Don't Do This."
So... this didn't really answer the question, other than they already released it on laserdisc. Okay, but WHY did they pick Armageddon in the first place? Robocop makes sense. The Rock kinda makes sense, but why Armageddon and not, say, Face/Off? or Con Air? or Men in Black? or Deep Impact? or some other late 90s Hollywood hit? Considering how tiny the percentage of their catalog was mainstream action, what was it about Armageddon in particular that made them go "That's it. That's the one." Was it just for money? To boost their brand? Or was there really someone inside Criterion who championed the movie?
I was shocked how much I enjoyed it until they destroyed the Russian space station (after which it limboed under the already low stupid bar), but it's hard to deny Bay's visual talent... and he gave us the Aaron Burr Got Milk ad.
How could you discuss this while ignoring Criterion spine #108, The Rock? While the move to Blu-ray omitted pretty much all the extras from the Criterion release, The Rock got EVERYTHING from the Criterion features to go with banging transfer and sound. I have both The Rock and Armageddon Criterion DVDs.
I've always absolutely loathed Armageddon. Most people either love it, like it, or are indifferent to it, so I guess I'm in the minority. I pretty much hate any Michael Bay film. I'm not sure what it is, they are big dumb movies, and I can usually switch my brain off and enjoy that type of movie on some level. Not Michael Bay films. I find them totally obnoxious.
people underestimate what Michael Bay is doing. there is noone who can do it as he can and he really is a master of popcorn action movie. the rock is a straight up great movie and the transformers movies are crazy and still feature some of the best cgi ever. if you like him or not, his style and era is a definitive part of movie history
I'd rather have somebody explain what Hollis Frampton's filmography is doing in the collection. Yes, weird and artsy movies is Criterion's MO. But that is just too much.
Imo there are only 4 movies in the Criterion Catalogue that make no sense, and they are Armageddon (1998) The Rock (1996) Election (1999) Wall-E (2008) They are the only things in the Catalogue that make no sense.
It was because Michael bay had a rivalry going with David Fincher. They both went from Propaganda Films to features and when CC released Se7en on laserdisc Bay also wanted the CC treatment and they did The Rock and then Armageddon. Armageddon has the distinction of being the final CC laserdisc released.
Honestly, i think _The Rock_ and _Armageddon_ will be regarded as classics when all the hot emotions about Michael Bay have died with his contemporaries. Soon as that happens, there is much less negative emotional investment in his films and his early work can be seen as flawed but undeniable milestones in action cinema. In other words: soon as we are dead, Michael will get his upgrade and there in nothing we can do about it.
Michael Bay is one of the best directors. I think he's a cinematographer and a director second. If he wanted to make a prestige film it would be great, but he doesn't want to.
I would loooove if the early Bond flicks got a Criterion reissue, but it's never going to happen: Eon production is already making a mint on their own BluRay sales, so they have no reason whatsoever to sign over the rights. (They did allow for Criterion Laserdiscs back in the day, but there the profit margin was much lower and most studios couldn't be bothered to put that much effort into it.)
i must admit that i always think Criterion is somewhat pretentious. and theres this placebo effect that if a movie is released by Criterion it must be something super important or highly sophisticated while its actually just dull. its just my opinion though, and i think an unpopular one 😅
You're certainly not alone on that, and you're not wrong-for every new title added to Criterion, I often have that moment of "...okay, why the eff did they choose that one?" under the theory that if they're including it there's got to be some bit of greatness that I'm not seeing. But that's part of why I love Criterion, that opportunity to reappraise films and possibly appreciate them in ways I hadn't before. In some ways Criterion makes me LESS of a film snob, because I never thought much about stuff like Bull Durham or The Breakfast Club until I was forced to look at them in this context. (That, and they're like Pokemon cards, only really f***ing expensive.)
Yikes. Lumping Robocop in with Armageddon and referring to Gojira as a "cheesy horror" is a bad look for a channel dedicated to film. The sentiment that all blockbusters are inherently bad/not cinema is such a year 1 film student kinda vibe.
I don't think that about blockbusters at all. The point here (which I could've communicated better) is that blockbusters don't fit in with Criterion's "brand," or at least its reputation as being snooty and elitist, and so seeing something like Armageddon on the list might make one do a double-take. (And see my comment elsewhere about Gojira-bad choice on my part, should've gone with something like The Blob.)
@@reckonedopinionsYou communicated it just fine. The commenter just wasn’t listening because he is a fanboy who felt butthurt by hearing you mention “Robocop” in the same breath as a Michael Bay movie. Fun fact: NASA does not actually use miles per hour when discussing the speed of a rocket, because they are scientists who understand the metric system.
@reckonedopinions "I don't think about blockbusters at all" says a lot about you and this channel. Any fan of film can appreciate the medium in all it's forms. There's good and bad across genres and film budgets. Criterion, as a purveyor of film as an artform and invested in the history of the film completely understands this as an institution. I don't even like Armageddon but I fully understand it's significance and why they've included it.
How can anyone take you seriously as a film commentator (in a sea of filmbro YT channels) when you show such a shallow understanding of the medium as a whole? Lame as hell.
@@reecerobertson4986 You've misquoted my reply here: not "I don't think about blockbusters at all," but "I don't think THAT about blockbusters at all," in response to your assertion that I think blockbusters are inherently bad. Again, I don't believe that at all, and yes, there are good ones and bad ones and monumentally great ones and painfully awful ones, and they need to be considered as much as anything else in film history.
I'm sorry, but you lose all credibility when you lump RoboCop in with Armageddon and The Rock. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy both Armageddon and The Rock, but RoboCop is a perfect movie. A cinematic masterpiece! Just because it has elements of an action/sci fi exploitation movie, doesn't mean that it's not also a really deep piece of cinema with something important to say.
Also labelling Godzilla ‘54 as “cheesy horror”… :X
You both sold credibility out when you wasted the time to pontificate over how smart you were for being criterion nerds.
@@OG-giku-zb8nj edgy 🙄
@@OG-giku-zb8nj I only own their Godzilla collection, I have none of their other releases at the moment. I’m not much of a “criterion nerd” :/
@@bugsisland3061 ok... got it. 👍
2:30 Just a note that LaserDisc was not digital video. The video was stored as an analog signal, though the audio and some other tracks could be stored digitally.
Oh, interesting! Thank you for the correction on that. Knowing helps explain some things about the technology, such as how come the discs are as large as they are with relatively less content storage.
I think you’re overlooking the fact that Armageddon got a Criterion release because it was, and remains, a textbook example of the Hollywood blockbuster, of what the masses hunger to see. It may not be a great - or even good - film, but it is a very significant one, culturally speaking.
Also people forget that michael bay is an actual auteur. There is a lovely eassay from his film school teacher in the criterion site. Like say what you will about him thematically fitting the collection, but his films are HIS films and identifiable a mile away. He's not a non descript journey man like shawn levy. Finally armageddon is a working class epic, and that rocks.
I remember that explanation, and I would say there are other textbook examples lol
@@MD0K You've got a point: back in 2001, the highbrow French movie magazine Cahiers du Cinéma wrote a rave review of Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor.
I've wondered this for decades and now I know. Thank you!
I get the head scratch of Robocop being in the collection. However, I am really happy that it was one. When you really watch the movie and see it’s not just another 80’s action film, it’s something really special. It’s brutal but their is so much humanity and sorrow to the character that the robot becomes the most human character in a world overrun by consumerism and corruption.
@@tylerthompson632 I really like the satire in it too. It's basically Judge Dredd. The violence is so over the top that - with the exception of Murphy's death - you can't really take it seriously.
Cutting to the original “Gojira” when you said “cheesy horror” is ridiculous. Gojira was a landmark film that is an incredibly potent allegory for the devastation Japan faced after the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Sure the special effects are dated today, but to call it “cheesy horror” is to willfully ignore the film’s blatant text. It’s a serious film with serious dramatic heft and heavy themes.
Point taken. A better choice might have been "The Blob" or "Fiend Without a Face".
5 minutes to not answer why… instead we got a well told video about the history of Criterion.
I've always seen Criterion as a distributor that put out highly auteur films, and Armageddon is kinda a big auteur film. I mean you can't deny Michael Bay's style is immediately distinguishable and the movie is fully a work of his own creative vision lol
My first Criterion was Hiroshima Mon Amour.
I remember at the time thinking it was weird that Chasing Amy was also put out by Criterion.
"A far better picture and sound that VHS tapes ever could"... near the end of its life D-VHS was released, it stored digital HD video and audio on VHS tapes
I would love if they released a 4K version and added back among the collection it’d be a lot of fun
It was the biggest movie of ’98. Last spectacle movie I recall with that sensational mass appeal, to borrow another commenter’s phrase.
As no one else is releasing a 4K of this maybe it's about time they reissued it on 4K
The licensing deal that Disney had with criterion stated that any work that criterion did would revert back to Disney after the License lapsed. So when you buy Armegeddon or The Rock on a Disney Blu ray- it *IS* the Criterion version.
In the UK the two disc special editions of both The Rock and Armageddon were the Criterion releases. The Rock even had the Criterion Collection logo on the main menus and Armageddon even printed the Criterion Collection logo on the spine… alas no number. I wonder if they still hold the rights to these films or have Disney taken them back, would be interesting to see if Disney does a Wall-E and license these rights to Criterion.
Armageddon is in the Criterion Collection because it's fucking awesome. End of story.
I learned things! Thank you!
I proudly own Criterion Collection Armageddon DVD and I will defend this film forever.... also, the Criterion release is the only way to see the Director's Cut of the film, which has some great scenes with Harry Stamper and his father among others. People can complain about the movie all they want, but for me it's a great example of the 90's American Blockbuster... It's a "Men on a Mission" movie, a "Disaster" movie, a "rag tag group of people" movie, a "Humanity fighting against a common enemy with insurmountable odds" movie, It's cheesy, it has a random gun scene, It's visually and audibly loud, it has a ton of heart, the characters are fun, the cinematography, especially in the montage scenes where it's showing everyone around the world, mimicked classic LIFE and National Geographic lifestyle photography and it graced us with the line "He's got space dementia".... it deserved to be in the Criterion Collection... now I just wish they release it on Blu-ray/4K.
Why are some official prerecorded DVDs purple? They are supposedly normal DVDs but seem to be DVD-R?. My BluRay player often rejects them or I get the warning "unrecognized format". Pop it in and out again and sometimes the DVD might play ,eventually. Sometimes. These PURPLE DVDs seem to be a step down in quality from regular DVDs. I'm having trouble finding anything online concerning my issue with these Purple DVDs. Does anyone have any knowledge on this subject?
Might be an MOD title (movie on demand). I have a few and they are all purple, but I never checked if they were DVD-R, just assumed from the purple.
We need it in 4K UHD BluRay
You mentioned that it went out of print; perhaps you should have titled this video "Why _was_ Armageddon in the Criterion Collection".
It would appear the Criterion Collection is going the way of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Everyone gets in wether they play Rock and Roll or not.
I own this. Great extras. It’s a popcorn movie. It’s not citizen Kane.
Very insightful! Thanks!
I think this choice makes a little more sense, but I have Chasing Amy on criterion collection DVD. In my opinion, Kevin Smith’s best film.
Hopefully they’ll put out 4K restorations of their Laserdisc catalog in the near future (since there are many that desperately need it, like This Is Spinal Tap and Robocop).
My kingdom for a Spinal Tap reissue.
There is a 4 k remaster and release from Arrow Video of Robocop, unless it absolutely has to be from Criterion.
There is a 4 k remaster and release from Arrow Video of Robocop, unless it absolutely has to be from Criterion.
There is a 4 k remaster and release from Arrow Video of Robocop, unless it absolutely has to be from Criterion.
Why did you post the exact same comment three times?
Why ISN'T Animal House, Caddyshack or Arthur NOT in the Criterion Collection?
Why isn't All The President's Men, Schindler's List, Waterloo 1970, American Graffiti, Napoleon 1927, The Triplets of Belleville in the Criterion Collection?
My take was that the Micheal Bay flicks made the Collection in order to pay some bills during rough times. There's no shame in that.
Great video!
Thank you!
I feel like Criterion need to release more popular movies but that are still artsy.
Short answer: Because the label has lost all meaning and needs to make sales.
Some things only exist as a warning to others. Armageddon exists because it is legendary - legendarily bad. And one far future day, when they are cataloging the moving images of the late 20th century, there it will stand, stating loudly "This Thing Right Here? Don't Do This."
Why is BAMBOOZLED in the Criterion Collection?
Why Not?
@@Pagaugezero Because it's a terrible, ineptly made film
So... this didn't really answer the question, other than they already released it on laserdisc. Okay, but WHY did they pick Armageddon in the first place? Robocop makes sense. The Rock kinda makes sense, but why Armageddon and not, say, Face/Off? or Con Air? or Men in Black? or Deep Impact? or some other late 90s Hollywood hit? Considering how tiny the percentage of their catalog was mainstream action, what was it about Armageddon in particular that made them go "That's it. That's the one." Was it just for money? To boost their brand? Or was there really someone inside Criterion who championed the movie?
Probably the latter and the fact it would be the final laserdisc produced by CC. “Let’s fuck with the people!”
I was shocked how much I enjoyed it until they destroyed the Russian space station (after which it limboed under the already low stupid bar), but it's hard to deny Bay's visual talent... and he gave us the Aaron Burr Got Milk ad.
How could you discuss this while ignoring Criterion spine #108, The Rock? While the move to Blu-ray omitted pretty much all the extras from the Criterion release, The Rock got EVERYTHING from the Criterion features to go with banging transfer and sound.
I have both The Rock and Armageddon Criterion DVDs.
2:05
I still have my Criterion of it 📀📀 Sadly, the features of this one not imported to Disney Blu-ray unlike _The Rock_
Why is Robo Cop?? I find that there are a handful of head scratchers.
Have you actually watched it?
@@rodycaz8984 Yeah. Like when it first came out. Who is he?? What is he?? Where does he come from??
It's out of print? Nooooo!! 😂
So is _RoboCop_ 😞 The Arrow Blu-ray is excellent but only the Criterion DVD has the proper aspect ratio of 1:66.1
I've always absolutely loathed Armageddon. Most people either love it, like it, or are indifferent to it, so I guess I'm in the minority. I pretty much hate any Michael Bay film. I'm not sure what it is, they are big dumb movies, and I can usually switch my brain off and enjoy that type of movie on some level. Not Michael Bay films. I find them totally obnoxious.
people underestimate what Michael Bay is doing. there is noone who can do it as he can and he really is a master of popcorn action movie. the rock is a straight up great movie and the transformers movies are crazy and still feature some of the best cgi ever. if you like him or not, his style and era is a definitive part of movie history
Money.
I'd rather have somebody explain what Hollis Frampton's filmography is doing in the collection. Yes, weird and artsy movies is Criterion's MO. But that is just too much.
Have you ever seen Revanche I would rather watch Armageddon on repeat than that French film
Imo there are only 4 movies in the Criterion Catalogue that make no sense, and they are
Armageddon (1998)
The Rock (1996)
Election (1999)
Wall-E (2008)
They are the only things in the Catalogue that make no sense.
It was because Michael bay had a rivalry going with David Fincher. They both went from Propaganda Films to features and when CC released Se7en on laserdisc Bay also wanted the CC treatment and they did The Rock and then Armageddon. Armageddon has the distinction of being the final CC laserdisc released.
Honestly, i think _The Rock_ and _Armageddon_ will be regarded as classics when all the hot emotions about Michael Bay have died with his contemporaries. Soon as that happens, there is much less negative emotional investment in his films and his early work can be seen as flawed but undeniable milestones in action cinema. In other words: soon as we are dead, Michael will get his upgrade and there in nothing we can do about it.
Michael Bay is one of the best directors. I think he's a cinematographer and a director second. If he wanted to make a prestige film it would be great, but he doesn't want to.
Think he tried and failed with Pearl Harbour.
@@johndriver6998 Nah. I think he knew what he signed up for. Make the bosses happy and explode things.
The only movies I hate from that director are the transformers movies.
He’s one of the most stylish directors tho.
@@angellover02171 I remember when the critics savaged Pearl Harbour and the marketing campaign said they hadn't been so wrong since Titanic.
Why isn't it on bluray along with King Kong and the first 3 BOND films CRITERION SUCKS.
I would loooove if the early Bond flicks got a Criterion reissue, but it's never going to happen: Eon production is already making a mint on their own BluRay sales, so they have no reason whatsoever to sign over the rights. (They did allow for Criterion Laserdiscs back in the day, but there the profit margin was much lower and most studios couldn't be bothered to put that much effort into it.)
I don't like Criterion Collection packaging. I find it fussy, self-conscious and obscurantist.
i must admit that i always think Criterion is somewhat pretentious. and theres this placebo effect that if a movie is released by Criterion it must be something super important or highly sophisticated while its actually just dull. its just my opinion though, and i think an unpopular one 😅
You're certainly not alone on that, and you're not wrong-for every new title added to Criterion, I often have that moment of "...okay, why the eff did they choose that one?" under the theory that if they're including it there's got to be some bit of greatness that I'm not seeing. But that's part of why I love Criterion, that opportunity to reappraise films and possibly appreciate them in ways I hadn't before. In some ways Criterion makes me LESS of a film snob, because I never thought much about stuff like Bull Durham or The Breakfast Club until I was forced to look at them in this context. (That, and they're like Pokemon cards, only really f***ing expensive.)