USS Independence - Guide 366
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- The Independence class, light fleet carriers of the United States Navy, are today's subject.
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
If there hadn’t been the resistance to back and forth on accepting the concept, how much sooner could the Independence class have been built? Could one or two have been in service by Midway or the Guadalcanal campaign?
Can you do a five minute build on the HMS M1
whenever you look at more modern sail ships, you tend to notice that they have a very different Riggings compared to what's scene in age of sail ships, had the navies of the age of sail known about these alternate setups? if they did would they have equipped their own sailing vessels with them?
5:36 (in regards to the launching of the Essex swarm) "just a year earlier than anyone had thought possible."
That seems like a gross miscalculation.
Why did the Essex's arrive so quickly?
During the Age of Sail we know the British were very pretty good at boarding actions (To the point some officer like Nelson and Cochrane were likely born with a cutlass in hand) and the French's abilities tended to wax and wane depending on the exact time and commander, but how good or bad at boarding actions were the Spanish and American navies?
My dad served as an Electronics Technicians Mate on the last of the class, CVL-30 USS San Jacinto, and some of the things he told me are part of my comments below.
1) It is San Jah-sen-toe, the J is not pronounced as H in regular Spanish (LL is is usually pronounced as Y, so Llama should be "Yamah", but it ain't)
2) The ship with terribly overcrowded - mainly due to all the extra AA guns and gunners. Dad slept in a hammock in a companionway and lived out of his sea bag until he made Petty Officer Third and got a a bunk and a locker. Rank really DOES Have It's Privileges.
3) The only fresh meat they got was Australian mutton via Reverse Lend-Lease. Dad couldn't stand it and would trade his portion with his shipmate's for anything else. Mid rats was not yet a USN tradition. So he remembered, after fixing some piece of misbehaving electronic gear at the traditional Zero-Dark-Thirty, going down to galley and begging. The cooks usually had something, generally a thick slice of Spam with a thick slice of canned cheese on thick slices of bread still warm from the oven. A Spam and cheese sandwich was considered good eating in the Western Pacific 1944-45. But Dad and his two brothers (also on ships in the Pacific) were eating better than their sister Rose who was an Army nurse in Burma.
4) Because she had no long range AA firepower she usually had an AA cruiser as a shadow to help make up the difference.
5) The Air Group for most of WW2 was a double strength fighter squadron (VF) of 36 F6F's and a torpedo squadron (VT) of 9 TBM's. There was a rumor they were going to be converted to fighter carriers flying nothing but F8F's for Operation Coronet, if not Operation Olympic. In the Korean War, the USS Bataan hosted several USMC Fighter-Bomber Squadrons (VMFB) flying close air support mission with F4U's.
6) Belleau Wood and Lafayette were equipped with F4U-7's - the last variant and built specifically for the French. The also operated some ex-USMC AU-1's, a pure ground attack variant built for the Corps during the Korean War. The carriers fought in Indochina, Algeria, Tunisia and the Suez Crisis (wearing yellow and black "invasion" stripes). The Aeronavale retired its last Corsairs in 1964 and returned to two CVL's to the USN as they were too small to operate jets and Marine National was taking delivery of Clemenceau and Foch that could.
7)Admiral King projected two would be lost per year of combat so he approved the larger Saipan Class, essentially an Independence built on a Baltimore class heavy cruiser hull . Actually, I think the effort would have been better spent expediting the construction of additional units of the Essex class - several of which were scrapped incomplete - as the logic behind the CVL's was to be substitute for these vessels and make up carrier numbers. The Independence class did this, but given the known facts of Essex production, were the Saipans needed?
8) King wasn't far off about losses. Princeton was sunk and Independence was badly damaged by torpedoes striking aft. She became the odd sister, forming with CV-3 USS Saratoga and CV-6 USS Enterprise Task Group 38/58.5 The Night Carriers (rolling couldn't have been that bad if people were operating from her at night). I've got a hunch that either the hull was warped or the shafts sustained permanent damage for her to be banished like this. It also explains why she was a sacrificial goat at Bikini, despite being only three years old.
9) The CVL's radar performance was superior to the CV's as the antennas on the light carriers were widely separated, but the on fleet carriers they were crowded together on the island and interfered with each other electronically. The radar outfit was an SC long range air search set between number 2 and 3 funnels and an SK medium range air search set and SG surface search set on the mast mounted on the island.
10) The San Jac ran into both typhoons. In the later the radar went out and they had no warning when they were almost run down by the Baltimore. This led to much taking of the Lord's name in vain and the skipper ordering, "Get the blankety-blank radar working!". So dad and his fellow ET's climbed to the masthead - in the middle of a typhoon - and got the "blankety-blank" SG working.
Yes. I read it all. 🐿
Fabulous stuff
I very much appreciate your father’s service! 🇺🇸
This was a wonderful post, and I’m grateful you took the time to share the information!
Pin this. ^
Was he onboard at the same time as H. W. Bush?
Correction Drach: This USS Reno is a CL (City name) not a DD. Keep forgetting that Atlantas were the only US cruisers with torpedo tubes.
There was a USS Reno DD but it was scrapped well before that time.
Bro forgot about Omaha class
@@ramal5708 no Omaha saw action on the Philippines in 44. Most were assigned to secondary theaters and only 2 were damaged, the Raleigh at Pearl and the Marblehead. Only the Marblehead and Richmond saw extensive combat.
Correcting Drach? Bold moves and impressive lol.
@@kylelindemuth5481 This is a history channel on scientific work and fact.
I heard pilots didn't care for the Independence-class carriers since they were built on cruiser hulls, they tended to roll heavily, making flight operations very difficult. Fleet and Escort carriers, on the other hand, had wider hulls that tended to be more stable.
It is unfortunate that the effort to preserve Cabot wasn't successful. It would have been very interesting to visit one of these hybrid carriers.
If only we had 3 wishes of bringing back ships! 🙏
The Independence class was fundamentally an escort carrier deck and island on a Cleveland class cruiser hull. The key difference from an escort carrier was the ability to keep up with the fast carriers and battleships of the fleet. The Clevelands were themselves notorious for being top heavy and rolling heavily. The Independence class added hull blisters to keep the rolling within reason, without losing too much speed. They were very successful in their role, but they were the dictionary definition of a stop-gap.
@@DaveSCameronI don't think it'd make the list. I'd be bringing back some OLD ships, hahah. A Carthaginian or Roman trireme / quadrireme from Punic Wars for sure!
There's a photo in one of my books on carriers that shows an Independence class rolling in heavy seas. The base of her funnels are almost underwater.
@DaveSCameron sure. Enterprise, an Indy, and maybe an escort carrier. At least Enterprise lives on through Stsr Trek.
With Gene Roddenberry being a pilot veteran of we2, albeit in the AAC, of course he would name his stsrship after the most famous and most accomplished US nsval vessel of the war.
I saw the USS 🇺🇸Cabot in Spain 🇪🇸 in Rota back in 1984 during a port visit.It's a shame the U.S. couldn't turn this unique class of ships into a museum ship.
Supposedly the story was, that the cost of cleaning up all the asbestos on board the ship was too much for the preservation group to cover. I do agree though, it's a shame it couldn't be saved.
Considering the condition of some of the ships being preserved, including incidents like the sinking of The Sullivans, we may have to accept that these ships are just too big and complex to maintain for posterity. A shame but there are limits to what can be done with man made objects.
I spent a few months on the sub tender and then a few years on a submarine operating out of Rota and walked past "Dedalo" every time I went on the beach. The smell of stale olive oil from her was very strong and I suspect permanent.
My neighbor server on the Cabot from '43 to '45. It broke his heart to see her scrapped.
I saw Cabot in New Orleans in I believe 1993. I had heard she was in the Spanish Navy but had not heard she had been brought back. I didn’t get close to her but you could see her from the ferry on Canal Street.
My father was a plank holder on the USS Independence. He told a story about him and another petty officer leading a detail from the Philadelphia Navy Yard to the Virginia Capes for training on the 5” guns. When they got back to the PNSY, there was a quad 40mm gun tub at the head of the pier and a crane was removing the 5” gun from the bow of ship.
You mentioned the USN shift to more and more fighters. I recently read many of the strike aircraft used to sink Yamato were not dive bombers, they were fighters carrying bombs. The shift away from dedicated attack or strike aircraft would be a good subject for a future video,
It was a combination of the increasing capabilities of the corsair and hellcat as fighter bombers, plus the kamikaze crisis causing the need of more fighters.
Probably because SBD is too slow,helldiver is shit and that why they use Hellcat or F4U for double action
And both of these plane probably can carry the same or much heavier armament but still have better range than the bomber 🤷
There were a lot of dive bombers or fighter-bombers to suppress the AA guns, but the real sinking was done by the torpedo bombers - especially since they learned the lesson from the Musashi and concentrated on one side.
Drach discussed the changing air group makeup a year or two back, making up infographics and everything showing 'typical' US and Japanese fleet carrier complements throughout the Pacific War. I don't recall him delving into individual type (Corsair v. Hellcat, for example) but just the breakdown between dive bomber, torpedo bomber, fighter, and 'other.'
Thanks Drach
While the US Admirals wanted a perfect ship this lass proves the old British maxim, a lot of good ships is better than a few outstanding ones.
Doctor Watson Watt on Radar. "Second best Tomorrow." [ As quoted by Len Deighton in the book "Fighter." Page n212 ] Any system is useless if it can not be deployed in time. A valid point.
USS San Jacinto had a very important person on board. Future president Bush. An Avenger pilot. He was the only survivor after being shot down. He was picked up by a sub and returned to service. I'm surprised there wasn't something about the ship with the USS Texas as it was near the tower for the battle of San Jacinto. She also received a Presidential Unit Citation.
And USS Monterey had another future Prez aboard: Gerald Ford. He was there when she was damaged by fire during Typhoon Cobra.
@@timschoenberger242 And he almost fell over the side. To me the two scariest moments in naval history to think about are:
1.) Being an American sailor on a destroyer escort trying to refuel from the New Jersey at the beginning of Typhoon Cobra and getting the order "detach. We're not going to be able to refuel."
2.) Being a junior officer on HMS Glorious and seeing the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau at close range, while knowing the fleet was keeping a general radio silence until the Norwegian royal family was safely out of the Baltic.
@@stanleyrogouski i wouldnt call 26 miles close range lol
@@GearGuardianGaming Ha. Yes. They sunk HMS Glorious at 16,000 yards. Never underestimate accurate German gunfire I guess. But you're still going down knowing about the radio silence and knowing your destroyers are trying to torpedo the Germans and that you were going to be in the water for awhile.
@@stanleyrogouski don't forget about Taffy 3. Although most got away, the odds were well against them.
The destroyers ran right at the Japanese Navy even though they were well out gunned. Johnston went back in after having no torpedoes and being hit. Samuel B Roberts charged in even though she couldn't keep up with destroyers.
I had two uncles on Light Carriers. One on the USS Princeton, and another on the USS Belleau Wood. The one on the Princeton transferred off, shortly before she was hit and sunk. The one on the Belleau Wood was on the ship when she was seriously damaged when she was hit by a Kamikaze, causing casualties of 200..
PS. The Island for the Cabot was saved, and now resides at the Naval Air Museum by Pensacola.
This class was also the class on which two future US presidents served: Gerald Ford on Monterey, and George HW Bush on San Jacinto
People forget that Gerald Ford served about the Monterey. Thanks for mentioning that fact.
Neil Armstrong performed his initial carrier qual on Cabot
The small island is in the Naval Aviation museum in Pensacola
It is a replica but I am glad it is there.
A suggestion for a 5 minute review. The unsung heroes naval tugboats like the USS hoga. One of two ships that was at Pearl Harbor on December 7th.
Nice work. Note that most (all?) ofthe CVLs entered service in 1943. The Essex class started arriving in 1943, but they were drifting into service from late 1943 through the end of the war. The Independence class were far from perfect, but they all came about when the USN needed fresh flight decks (even imperfect ones).
The Independence are cool carriers. How could you not mention the Strike on Rabaul in Nov. 43? No Essex's needed, Princeton and Saratoga stopped the Japanese strike group that Halsey said was the scariest situation he was in in the entire war.
So many red-flag adjectives that describe this class: conversion, compromise, rush job, stopgap. You could even call it "politically-motivated", considering that FDR essentially forced it through over the objections of many in the Navy. And yet, for all the things that make it sound like it should be a disaster of a design...it WASN'T. It was a limited solution to specifically address a scarcity of fast carrier hulls over a short timeframe and couldn't do much outside of that window. But it was actually a decent little ship class that did a good job helping with the problem it was designed for.
In 1978 I made a Mediterranean cruise as a US Marine.
Our first port stop was in Rota and we tied up next to the Dedalo .
It is truly amazing how estimates of construction time can shrink by a factor of 2 or 3 when needs arise. Any Federal project normally runs at the speed of the folks at the Post Office behind the little curtain that separates the lobby from the back room. War attracts unwanted supervisory attention that makes people start moving like it's really important.
Independence would also be the first carrier to be fitted with a Night Air Group (Air Group 41) between August 1944-January 1945. Her Night Fighter Squadron, VF(N)-41, would have the highest kill count of any Night Fighter Squadron. Independence and supposedly Bataan were also supposed to join Enterprise as part of the new Night Carrier Task Group, Task Group 38/58.5, formulated by Admiral King. However, only Independence would join Enterprise in that role when the latter was converted to night ops and loaded with Night Air Group 90. Both Carriers participated in the invasion of Luzon and the South China Sea Raid. However, issues with Independence's size (I think) meant that the USN decided that a light carrier was no longer suitable for night operations. So, she was converted back to Day ops. Saratoga and later Bonhomme Richard joined Enterprise in the Night Carrier Task Group.
Drach! How about a shirt that says”…and then it was sold for scrap.”😢. Gotta include the sad face. Love and respect from the Great Plains.
Fun fact the last scenes of Dirty Harry Magnum Force take place in the San Francisco basin aboard one of these waiting to be scrapped
How about an episode on China gunboats (USS Panay, HMS Peterel, etc.). I believe that some of the US gunboats built in the 20s and 30s were (at the time) the only US warships constructed outside the US.
US warships that needed a Jones Act waiver? Weird.
Later ship, same name, but I remember touring the USS Forrestal class USS Independence when it visited Boston in the late 1970s. I remember we got to tour way more of the interior than on the USS JFK when it visited a few years later. It still had a large complement of its Vietnam War era aircraft and maybe a few Tomcats. Being a little kid at the time, one of the things I remember the most was being given a giant chocolate chip cookie by one of the cooks in the galley.
I was on CV 60 only sister to Forrestal CV 59.
There were four Forrestal-class supercarriers. All three of Forrestal's sisters were named after previous carriers: Saratoga, Ranger, and Independence
@@dcbadger2 Depends on whether you consider _Kennedy_ a _Forrestal_ or not.
@@boobah5643 JFK was a Kitty Hawk
The best way to start a Saturday afternoon, a Drach video 😉👍. The last one scraped in 99... Quite sad it was not possible to salvage this ship... 😞
Here on my side of the pond, a Saturday morning.
For me it is still Saturday morning but I agree with both sentiments.
My father served USN from Jun 45 - Oct 46. He was Yeoman 3C aboard Independence. He boarded the ship in Portland OR where it was being prepped for Op Magic Carpet. They departed via the Columbia River into the Pacific (where he said sea-sickness struck all with vengence, due to the rolling of the ship in the open sea). They sailed to Guam via Hawaii and I believe they returned to SF with repatriated troops. He volunteered for the Crossroads tests (which came with a 30-day leave reward). At Bikini he was on an insp crew that boarded the Independence less than 48 hrs post-Able. I had asked about safety equipment/protection... he said they were given cotton booties to put on their shoes and had to shower upon return from the inspection. There was no insp post-Baker for him. As Y3, he was the secretary for the Capt and had to type orders for all transferring officers, of which were many post-war. When officers left, they needed copies of their orders for every station they passed thru and dad said he started making multiple extra copies for them as they left ship. In return, he was given gratuities of cigarettes, booze, etc. which he would use as barter for things like personal laundry service by the ship's laundry mate. I don't recall how he returned from Bikini. I wish I had asked more and kept records of his story. I do have discharge docs and USNR records. He passed in 2003 from aplastic anemia. I'm sure the radiation played a part, but he spent 40 years with his hands in gasoline, owning a filling station.
With the war in the huge expanse of the Pacific Ocean primarily being a island hopping effort, the ability to have aircraft in large supply & quick delivery, ship building by American shipyards was instrumental to victory. That effort was phenomenal. These men & women are called the "Greatest Generation" for a very justifiable reason.
Cabot was docked in New Orleans in the 1990s. I saw the ship all the time and while the D-Day Museum (now National World War II Museum) opened and got all the fanfare Cabot was left to its fate.
The chief virtue of the Independence class was that they could be available relatively quickly; and this was no small virtue! Through 1943 and 1944 (and frankly, even into 1945) they constituted a pretty thick share of the US fast carrier forces' air strength.
When you have a wealth of planes and pilots, even a dodgy flight deck is precious.
The most important ability is availability.
The first rule in life is showing up. The Independence class did.
@@scottgiles7546 Yup!
Do you think it would be possible to do a USS San Jacinto video in the future? That's my grandfather's ship and I'd be rather curious to hear about her history and how it lines up with what my grandfather told me as a kid.
Grandpa was on CVL-29 USS Bataan. Would love a guide on her as she was brought back out of mothball for the Korean War.
I can't believe that as late as the 1990s a little escort carrier- A bona fide straight-deck WW2 aircraft carrier- could not have been saved.
My uncle flew Avengers off of San Jacinto during the Battle of Leyte Gulf against the Japanese Northern Force. They were later joined by Ensign (later POTUS) George Bush. My uncle was one of the guys on the float carrying an Avenger in Bush's inaugural parade.
"My uncle was one of the guys on the float carrying an Avenger in Bush's inaugural parade."
Pic's or it didn't happen...
@@scottgiles7546This old semi computer literate vet doesn't know or have capability to post pics with a You Tube comment. You'll have to take my word for it. Or not.
I don't know how accurate this is, but I've heard the Cabot fiasco indirectly led to the failure to preserve Des Moines. The navy tightened up the requirements to have a museum ship and the backers of museum ship Des Moines couldn't meet them. In particular they couldn't find a port, they had wanted somewhere on the gulf coast near the mouth of the Mississippi but New Orleans having just been burned in the Cabot affair was understandably gun shy.
Great video. My Dad was stationed on the Independence as a BT (Boiler Tech). He said that they called them “Baby Flattops”. He even sailed with her for her final voyage, to be sunk. She didn’t sink despite being closer to the center of the explosion. They had to scuttle her using conventional explosives. If I remember correctly.
Another often overlooked class of ships. Thanks. I'm in TX so I've got to say this. San Jacinto, San Juh-sin-tow.,
I think my grandfather served as a ship's surgeon on one of those ships. He was lost in 1945 after taking off in an SBD with a pilot somewhere in the Pacific. There's speculation it was friendly fire.
The cruiser-based light carrier idea didn't end with the Independence class as the idea was extended to the Baltimore Class heavy cruiser hull as well. Two were completed too late for WWII and were the only two of the class to be built in the end. They were the USS Saipan and the USS Wright. At first glance they could be mistaken for Independence Class ships (unless they were berthed next to one) as they were VERY similar in design, just larger. I gather that they would have had some of the same limitations, just to a lesser degree.
FDR had great vision. These CL provided much needed aircraft
In 1943, U.S.S. Cowpens was involved in a collision with U.S.S. Abbot DD 629, during night landing training. Cowpens received a dent, Abbot's bow was bent around and she had to limp back to P.H., T.H. for serious repairs.
1943-1999, not too shabby for a conversion carrier.
One of my favourite games is "How close to 0:30 can I click on Drach videos w/o looking at the feedback?"
Britain, America, and Japan all decided to mass produce minimum capability emergency fleet carriers in late 41 to early 42, the Independences being the shittiest of the 3 types. But the Independences contributed to major critical battles, while the Colossuses and Unryus coming on line just a year later contributed nothing to the war effort. Really points to how important timing is.
Shittiest how?
I love your comments on Roosevelts apparent involvement in the development of the navys preparations for the coming war. Makes me wonder about more recent executive involvement in military matters, just a comment on presidential awareness of military capabilities. Love the documentary 👍. Go Navy.
And another in the long line of things the military didn't want and got forced to take, until they found they really needed them.
Vice versa also in some cases ! 👍
FDR had been Assistant Secretary of the Navy during the time of WWI, he had a strong connection to the U S Navy.
Roosevelt's Chief of Staff to the Commander in Chief was Fleet Admiral William D Leahy, the highest ranking active duty officer for all of WWII (because he had been CNO and got his fifth star before the others like Marshall, Ike, and Adm King).
Similar path as Churchill, something rarely seen anymore, qualified politicians. They both had their quirks however. 👍
We haven't had a military qualified president in America way too long, and don't see one in the future any time soon.
Man, this one ain't been commissioned yet.
I wanna see a vid on the Chester class and their silly freeboard.
Could you do a review of the USS Chief (MCM-14) Avenger-class mine countermeasures ship. These little boats and crews never get there recognition but do a lot for the fleet. Thanks.
Weren't those 1980s ships? Drach usually doesn't cover much beyond 1950.
Nice job on the opening audio, Drach. Level is good, treble and bass are nicely balanced, 👍👍👍
Thank you for this video. My grandfather served on the USS Belleau Wood CVL 24.
Thanks for this video. I served on the next Independence CV62 (now also in the scrap yard in Washington). Its nice to knoiw the heritage of these vessels.
Hey Drac, long time viewer, first time poster. Great episode as usual. I have a suggestion for a ship to cover in an episode of 5 Minute guide to warships. CM-5 USS Terror. She was the only ship in her class, a cruiser mine layer!! My Uncle Vito served on her in the later part of WW2. I've never seen ANYTHING about her n any naval You tube page, and would love to know more. Thank you for your excellent page, both my wife and I love it!! Happy Christmas as you Brits would say!!
It is possible to consider that the Independence class served a useful dual purpose. Remembering that the real enemy of carriers were their own bombs, torpedos and fuel anything that spread this around amongst more hulls did a lot of good. Princeton and Independence were both severely damaged enough that those weapons they absorbed might have put an Essex out for quite a while.
These ships so alive with personel, delivering great service in time of war, disapear after their need has passed.
Oh, USS langley, she brought my grandfather back home when the war ended, as he was a POW
Mine too - in Japan or Philippines?
The one story I'd like to hear about is about the USS Franklin, the American Essex class carrier that took an extraordinary amount of damage, but survived, and made it home under her own power.
Drach has a video about it.Goes into a lot of detail.
Thanks Drach.
I appreciate that they at least tried to save an example of the class.
"Ah, you're referring to Drachinifel, a TH-cam channel focused on naval history and warships! Yes, Drachinifel is known for providing well-researched and informative content on naval topics, especially regarding World War II. His videos often delve into the technical aspects of ships and their engagements, offering insightful analysis and historical context. Many people find his content engaging and educational, and he has built a community of enthusiasts interested in naval history. If you're interested in learning more about warships and naval battles, Drachinifel is definitely a great resource!..."
de meta ai
Been waiting for this one!
As much as the admiralty's reluctance to sacrifice some precious cruisers to get carrier conversions of unknown quality was understandable, it's a shame the decision wasn't taken sooner, rather than wait for the Japanese to come knocking.
The first converted carriers would have proven useful in 1942, with Coral Sea, Midway, Guadalcanal. The US Navy would have had more room to manoeuver.
On an unrelated note, I wonder if the AA crews drew the short sticks to determine who would serve on the guns placed between and aft the funnels.
Can't imagine the sailors were fond of the smoke. ^^
The very first Cleveland was commissioned in June 1942, so she would have missed Coral Sea, Midway, and probably the beginning of Guadalcanal as she worked up and ironed out the first-in-class issues. The Independence commissioned in January 1943, only seven months later.
CVL-22 Independence was my Grandpa's ship.
I hope you're going to do the Clevelands at some point. They are largely overlooked but were so important -- especially in 1942-43 before all the other better know ships entered service. When you consider that the IJN only built 4 cruisers during the war, this class of ships is all the more remarkable as they made up the 1942 USN cruiser losses.
Even after stealing nine hulls for the _Independence_ class, there were more _Clevelands_ than any other class of cruiser in any navy.
How sad that I remember the failed attempts to save the Cabot. The USN seemed to not want her n sent her to the scrappers
VMF is a marine fixed wing fighter squadron VF is Navy
6th, OK love US Carriers
Best wishes during the holidays , to you and your's Drach
Despite the US having an embarassment if wealth, in terms of museum ships, it makes me very sad when one of these brave ships meets the breakers, so late in life.
The 1942 light fleet carrier of the RN was probably a better and cheaper proposition and the last one of those left service in 2001 and the technology to build them was in place by 1935 an excellent carrier design designed to last 18 months that lasted for half a century
Aye. The Centaur class too; if not for government shinnanigans several of those would've seen much longer service; perhaps not as long as Hermes's, but not impossible 🤔🤔
@@jimtaylor294 The centaurs were an outgrowth of the 1942 carrier and can be seen as part of that programme With Vengeance one of the original group of carriers not leaving Brazilian service until 2001 thus serving longer than Hermes ex Elephant
A day late and a dollar short
@@ROBERTN-ut2il Still better than a cruiser conversion
@@davidmcintyre8145No it isn't. Not when they don't exist when you need them. Tell me about the glorious war record RN's light fleets. As far as warships go,
1) The USN's ships were 7 knots faster than the Colossus class.
2) The USN's air groups were marginally bigger 45 to 40. aircraft. But then the BPF was mainly operating American planes
3) The Colossus class had no armor whatsoever. The Independence class retained the cruiser belt and deck armor and bulges acted as a torpedo defense system as well as for storing fuel. (Boiler type, not aviation)
So why did the light fleets last so long? They had to. Britain was impoverished - updating Victorious broke the bank - and the RN couldn't afford to build new ships. The USN could and got the Forrestals. Simply put, the USN didn't need the CVL's post 1945 - not when it had 24 Essex class vessels and the super carriers building.
Ack ! - The USS Reno was an Oakland Class Light (Anti-Aircraft) Cruiser, they and the Atlanta class being the only modern US cruisers to carry torpedoes. Bad, Drach ! Bad !
Well, that's because the Atlantas were originally laid down as Destroyer Leaders. Which is why they have 5" destroyer size guns instead of 6" guns, and torpedo tubes. By this point the US Navy had redesignated them as Light Cruisers for mostly political reasons. So, on paper they are light cruisers, but construction wise they are really big destroyers.
It would be great to learn about the WWII Machine Gun Cruisers, I think they were Brooklyn Class but I could be wrong, and did they work with or see any action alongside any of the US fast battleships? Was the fire rate of the Machine Gun Cruisers really as high as the rumours say, and how did they achieve the ability to throw so much heavy metal so quickly at the enemy?
You are thinking of the Atlanta class (4 ships) and its sub classes, the Oaklands (4 ships) and Juneaus (3 ships). There were two USS Juneaus, CL-52 and CL-119, both members of the same class, which must be some sort of record. The Atlanta class were rerated as AA cruisers (CLAA) post war
I got excited when you said she was returned to the US to become a museum ship… an now… now I’m just sad…
Thank you 👍
Great show !
Q&a it is often stated that The Battle of the Philippine Sea, was a turkey shoot because of lack of training for Japanese pilots. If the Japanese pilots had the same level of training as at Pearl Harbor or Midway would the results be much different? How about if we were to swap in the RN Pacific Fleet from April 1945?
Thanks!
Brilliant thanks again 👍
Hi, could you make a video over the german carrier seydlitz.
_Seydlitz_ was a _Hipper_ class cruiser; _Weser_ was the carrier almost made from her (nearly finished) hull.
Yeesh. Built off a big heavy cruiser, with a planned air wing a third smaller than an _Independence,_ built off a light cruiser.
Great video as per usual, but man do I miss the old intro.
I saw her in the scrap yard. It was a sad site to see.
This is a first form me, I caught a clear error from Drach, the USS Reno is an Atlanta-class Light Cruiser. It seems if Wikipedia can be trusted that Drach confused the USS Irwin, which was originally supposed to scuttle Princeton but couldn't with Reno who took over.
None of this is to say Drach if asked wouldn't know this stuff, just that he missed a mistake that is obvious to Americans, since Reno is a well known city.
As mentioned upthread, DD-303 was a _Clemson_ also named USS _Reno._ Of course, she'd left service in 1930, and was named after a WWI destroyer captain.
I notice the Spanish Navy never added a ski jump for VSTOL operation of the Harrier. Was that a cost issue?
Hi Drach please make a video on the K&K Radetzky-Klasse semi Dreadbought
And Tatra class DD
In y 2000 my ship was parked next to the fhili navy yard ehere i saw 2 bbs and a light carier. Those two bbs where possibly 2 iowas but acording to this film it was not an independence class carier but i can swear it was on a cruiser hull. So what was it then. Exact date is out of my memory but i was working at the time on s/v dar mlodziezy and we were parked there as part of tall ship race
USS Wright, CVL-49.
Short summary of the decision to add the island to this carrier class: f#ck it, we ball.
Do long island class next pls!
Looked at this quickly and thought this was somehow about USS *Indianapolis* .
Little bit of pronunciation nitpicking. We 'muricans pronounce Cabot "cabbut" and the J in San Jacinto like the J in Jack.
Is it possible if you could cover some cold war designs, quite a few interesting designs.
He doesn't like going past the late 50s or early 60s
Nothing built past 1950. its a rule of his because there is still so much still classified about the weapon systems for ships past 1950.
It’s a fair question and I do believe he’s touched on some ships that’s entered into service around the start of the Cold War and stuck around for a while
Well Dr. Alexander Clarke does cover cold War era ships, Subbrief did a lot on Russian, Sovjet and Chinese cold War era ships, and I remember a channel called the Shipyards tried to become a Cold War Era Drachinifel (with acknowledgement by Drach), but I think his actual RN career thrown a wrench in that plan.
(edit: TheShipYard is still active, got a bit more focussed on 1900-1920 ships and shipmodelling now for some Specials about Coronel.
The fact the Cabot was scrapped is a travesty
Did you contribute to the preservation fund? I did.
Did the Reno torpedoed the Princeton before or after it being deemed lost?
After, essentially a remote scuttling.
At some point: Drach's spin on USS Saipan and Wright?
th-cam.com/video/FIYAU7eAKtU/w-d-xo.html
At 6:00 there’s a picture of the Bonhomme Richard the Enterprise and Yorktown all docked together can anyone provide Background details of this photo
Hi Drach, its pronounced: Dédalo with the accent on the "e" (not on the "a" 😅)
If they had been built as cruisers, how many would have been scrapped at the same time anyway?
Franklin Delano "Tried to put aircraft facilities" Roosevelt
I wonder how it would have worked out if they had used Baltimore class hulls rather than Clevelands.
Check out the USS Saipan and Wright, CVL-48 & 49.
@@gregorywright4918 I had forgotten about those, thank you!
What were the IJN estimates of USN carrier strength in the Pacific throughout the war? They must have had an accurate count at the start and start getting fuzzy as time went on.
At a certain point, the Japanese probably stopped bothering to count.
@@Cailus3542 i think at some point a lot of paper was thrown up in the air and the IJN general staff collectively said “stuff it.” When they found out Enterprise survived for the upteenth time.
@@ph89787 Another concern would have been: "were the IJN planners believing the IJN lies about sunk carriers"?
Do a video about sverdlov class cruisers
...and their precursor 😉
Nyet, Is classified
^ 😆
Next intro music yet
Was this the class of carrier escort that the genius industrialist Henry J Kaiser mass produced?
No, those were escort carriers, CVEs, built on merchant hulls.
You're thinking of the _Casablancas._ Drach covered them earlier this year.
👍👍
Your storytelling is always a pleasure to listen to. Just a nitpicking reminder - FDR and Teddy's surname is pronounced "Rose-uh-velt" (except if you're Alice Roosevelt Longworth in her latter years for some odd reason).
Pretty sure somebody else convinced Drach it was the other way around, cause I am pretty sure Drach used the other pronunciation earlier. I personally am inclined to take yours, but that is heavily influenced because it is the Dutch pronunciation that I think is the origin of the family name.
@@Tuning3434 Maybe the Chicagoans got to him? Haha not a big deal either way.