Following Directions | 90% Would do this Wrong!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- Why should you be looking to work out where to go at a complex junction?
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As someone who's done close to 100k miles per year, the amount of roads I've seen with misleading, sometimes even just straight up wrong, road signs and road markings, is honestly quite scary. I can't help but check everything now. Every possible bit of info I can use to check, double check, triple check, I'm subconsciously scanning everything I can, all the time, it's a bit exhausting tbh.
Almost 100k miles a YEAR? WHAT!
Anyway, i agree it sucks and its exhausting but its just part of being a driver. I find that the bigger the vehicle you drive, the better the view you have of the road signs and increased visibility of road markings.
Are you a lorry driver or something?
@@kieranking3150 I am a lorry driver, 100k a year seems a bit on the low side. However, I must disagree with pmscar as I find that there aint actually that many roads poorly signed or confusing. Just poor driving.
@@stevecampbell7589 Don't get me wrong they're not dangerous in themselves, but they make the idiots stand out real quick and they're so unpredictable. The most common one I've seen is road markings not being updated when new roads are added, or road markings being added but the old sign staying up, that kinda thing.
@@WavScorn259 Van driver lol. My route was 350-500 miles per day, plus I'd do about 200 per week personally. Adds up surprisingly quick. Nothing in comparison to some lorry drivers though.
I've always thought that our signage on roads is terrible. I know multiple roundabouts that have awful signage, they don't tell you what lane to be in until you're pretty much on the roundabout. Even then, the marking is on the bloody floor. It's useless in heavy traffic because nobody can see them!
Driving in Europe for the first time was such an eye opening experience, I couldn't believe how easy it was to navigate, overhead signs telling you exactly what lane to be in, you practically didn't even need a satnav.
Good point. As a motorcyclist I rely on audio rather than visual clues when following satnav and it's usually terrible but on multi-lane approaches to junctions it is practically useless. I worry that as Satnav becomes the norm, signage may get poorer still.
I think one of the worst offenders are spiral roundabouts that lack markings.
I have driven one where every single marking has been erased from the road, it's chaos.
Another pet peeve is where roundabouts don't have the direction arrows on the run up to the roundabout.
Wouldn't be an issue if it was consistent what lane to be in for which exit, but I could assume left to go straight ahead only to then find out too late that it's left hand turn only!
At best, a waste of time. At worst, a horrible accident. All for a lack of some paint on the floor.
I actually, contextually disagree - at least we have consistent and frequent signage. Touring in France and elsewhere, you really appreciate especially our motorway signage and forewarning. Over there it's often "sharp left NOW for your destination" and nothing else.
@@DNRTannen I suppose just saying 'Europe' is a very broad brush. I am familiar with the Netherlands and Germany, where I don't think that's an issue.
Yep got one like that not far from me, only road signs are on the road and so close to the roundabout that they are at peak times and most of the day obscured by traffic
It's interesting - where I teach I find the people tend to have almost the opposite problem. They never look at the road markings, and the signage is absolutely not good enough, so they frequently end up trying to go to the wrong lane (often through indecision). You have to understand how to use both. You also have to accept that sometimes you're going to get it wrong, and understand the best way to deal with it safely.
I agree here some signage are absolute garbage and does require the road markings to be read.
One junction springs to mind on the south circular in London where it is 3 lanes approaching the cross roads and the only sign there is the cross roads one with what is left, straight and right.
There is no actual lane signs which would really help this junction as the left lane is left only, right lane is right only and middle lane is straight on with total lack of indication until you get to the road markings at which point it just becomes a cluster f*** because no one knows where the hell they should be at this point.
@@Nodster There's a roundabout in High Wycombe where two of the exits are at no point signposted and are only shown at all with roadmarkings. At one point there are three lanes, that all go on to the dual carriage way (lane 2 and 3 merge). If you continue round the roundabout however, that 3rd lane turns into 4 complete new lanes, none of which are signposted at all. It's a nightmare. A lot of people end up using lane 2 to get to some of those, but according to the road markings that's just wrong. Causes all kinds of problems.
@@houndedheller8330 I'm trying to think where that is in Wycombe. At the bottom of Marlow Hill?
IMO that last bit is the biggest cause of most of the near misses I see near me, where folk trying to "fix" their mistakes blunder into danger (or putting others in danger) by not looking properly.
@@dlevi67 At the top. Junction with the m40. Although the bottom of Marlow hill isn't great either.
I have noticed some junctions with incorrect or mismatching markings. I've been beeped at for being in the correct lane
In my local town. They just upgraded a roundabout to traffic lights. Prior to the change it was dual carriageway the. Three lanes on roundabout to two lanes exiting. They decided to make it four lanes entering to a roundabout with I think five or six lanes exiting onto three lanes to then filter down to two lanes. The best part the brand new road markings have a straight over arrow in every one of the four lanes entering. It’s F***ing nuts. Cost a few hounded thousand as well.
@@McMahonshaun where’s that?
@@McMahonshaun I wanna know where this is, I've encountered something like that before and my god, other local experienced drivers really don't like you messing up lanes if you're not familiar with the area do they. I'm pretty sure people think they "own" roads instead of giving a bit more space and be a bit more accommodating for mistakes that will happen every day.
The is a 5 exit traffic light controlled roundabout on the A167 in the Northeast I use regularly. You can almost guarantee every time I use it some one will f&@k up. All because they don’t look ahead, look at the road signs and plan which lane they should be in for the exit they require. Consequently drivers get angry, not only the ones who have been inconvenienced but also the ones who have f£&ked up.
Yeah there is a problematic junction close to me, the sign clearly states which roads go where but the left lane queue every time mentality is strong, and God forbid you drive down a near empty lane instead of queuing back onto a roundabout
I remember in my blue lights course my instructor explaining that the markings on the floor are a guide. They will always be backed up with signage which is the actual 'legal' guidance. You've perfectly explained why this is the case, white floor markings on the main carrageway wear away, get obscured by other vehicles and in certain conditions are basically invisible.
NOTE: This is purely referring to lane direction arrows, speed limit roundals, road lane direction guides (A59 for example in your case) etc. They will always have a roadside/overhead sign backing them up.
Back in 1972, I was taught by a bus driver who was also a fully qualified driving instructor. The one tip he gave me, was to always read the road well ahead of you, and not just in front of you. This also applied to approaching junctions, with variable lanes going in different directions. Look at the lane marker boards at the side of the road, or on the overhead gantries, as you will then have a chance to be in the correct lane well before you come across the actual road marking.
Brilliant tip, thank you.
As a long time driver I find my self doing this naturally but I’ve never thought about it that way.
When in an unfamiliar areas, As I approach I am looking at the proper road signs and then looking at the floor signs is confirmation that I am in the correct lane.
Well that's an eye opener. Didn't even think that there'd be people who were so fixated on the road markings that they'd ignore signs. Whenever I'm somewhere I don't know I'm looking everywhere for as much information as I can to ensure I'm in the right place. Usually if there's nothing else to help I join the LONGEST queue as that's bound to be the way I want to go!
Join the shortest one and just change when it's safe if you were wrong, 99% you're right... 1% oh no somebody has to let you merge, no big deal
with decades of driving experience, I can't fault your logic.
As a general rule, I go road signs first, and look for markings on the road to back that up. One problem which seems to lead some folk astray is when looking at signage obliquely across a bend, or worse still, across a complex junction. It's hardly surprising, and the same problem occurs on the railways where signal lights can be incorrectly identified, and result in what is called a SPAD situation (SPAD = signal passed at danger). It's one complication of the parallax view which is difficult to overcome, and can lead road traffic to misidentify the correct lane, or in rail traffic to identify the wrong signal.
But the golden rule for me is, signs first, backed up by road markings.
This actually has happened to me. At a relatively complex but very open roundabout, I was looking at the third board far in the distance, not realizing there was a board a little closer. That board suggested to be on the outside lane for my exit. Needless to say, I was on the wrong lane, so had to exit where I didn't plan to (no a problem). But this is when I realized that "Look ahead, but not too far ahead". :D It can confuse, as you said.
Have been driving for 20 yrs now. If i am intending to drive somewhere I do not know well I have always looked up the route on Google earth and gone through the route at difficult points so i can see where i am supposed to be and how i need to get there. I will say this is not perfect as it is usually a few years behind and places may have changed, however, 1 it gives me confidence to keep my eyes on other road users, 2 keep my eyes up on my surroundings and look for landmarks and signs i am already aware to look for and usually means the drive is a smooth one.
I drive a lot less these days but i have always found this helpful just like this channel which has helped me improve my attitude on the road and driving skills up to date. I think this is important.
Thank you for your hard work.
Hahaha I do that too 😂
Ashley's video reminds me of something I heard comparing driving, past versus present. It has been said that driving was much simpler 30, 40 or more years ago and for every driving decision one had to make back in the day, a modern day driver has to maybe make 10 decisions today. We have more complex junctions and roundabouts now, more signs and road markings, more rules...and of course, more traffic, plus that traffic tends to move faster.
Plus nowadays we have Sat Navs to keep an eye on.
I have a slightly different view. I've been driving for 44 years and I would say that road design and layout is much better these days, which makes driving easier and safer. Of course there are still many unimproved junctions and roundabouts but the signage tends to be clearer. Also, youngsters don't believe me when I say that congestion could be just as bad, or worse, back in the late seventies and the eighties, even though there were far fewer cars.
Some people place them in the wrong part of their windscreen which can block visibility.
@@R04drunner1 Nope, it actually sits in the door pocket and I listen to it :)
Part of the problem is the tendency for signs to appear everywhere about everything. There may be a touch of liability fear on the part of some councils who seem to like to put warning triangles up about even the smallest potential hazard, change speed limits every few hundred yards, have junctions with multiple sets of traffic lights for the same aspect and perhaps unclear filter/turning lanes and it can be quite overwhelming
I watch for the sign as that is a good advance notification of the correct lane but do glance down to ensure that I am OK. Besides, when it is busy the cars in front hide the markings and if you rely on them you can get lost. Having said that, I have still, on occasion, managed to end up in the wrong lane and had to either detour or go back round, rather than make a sudden lane change. I have been driving for 58 years and it has served me well so far.
To prove it's never entirely cut and dried, what frustrates me as a driver is when the priorities on a roundabout are not what you would normally expect. Take the A6/A428 around Bedford as a perfect example. A single carriageway where you expect the normal r/b to be left lane = left turn and straight on with right lane right turn with a possible straight ahead merge as well. However, with no applicable signage the first you know about the left lane/left turn only r/b's they love, is the road markings! Fine if you are a local but as an infrequent visitor, pulling a trailer as well, it's a bit late when, in a queue you either spot the traffic not doing what you expected or seeing the road markings. Great vids though
Yep, try Milton Keynes also. Two lane approach suddenly becomes three lanes with that left, right at the roundabout entrance…..Not to mention MK has in all about 14 consecutive roundabouts like this on its ring road…I enjoy this once every year!
Drove back today 180 miles, 4 hours ,no satnav and because I'd driven the route before
the signs were all i needed .
Someone I am a passenger with, on occasion, does not look ahead and
after watching you explain the need so well I am going to give them the
opportunity to watch it ,courtesy of yourself. Nice one for that and I'll keep
watching when I get chance.
It's caused for a large part by navigation software i think. We're not used to looking at signs anymore, the lovely voice tells us what to do, we just have to make sure we're in the correct lane to do so.
And the “lovely voice” tends to take priority, if it conflicts with the the world outside.
With 1,000,000+ miles under my belt, it is a surprise to learn something new from your video today: The lesson for me is that 90% of drivers are looking in the wrong place for their direction info. I had no idea... This may help me to understand the world of confusion and surprise that many of my fellow drivers are trying to cope with. Thanks.
As someone working in local government, I can say that in my local area the policy (driven by budget pressures) is only to renew road markings once they are 80% (yes 80%) eroded. I think that makes your point Ash. Great vid as always.
As someone that works in local government, maybe you should try doing something about that tbh
@@fionnbharrduffy1005 Local government employees have to work within the budgets set by elected councillors. When people elect councillors who vote to increase budgets, the staff will be able to raise standards.
@@fionnbharrduffy1005 taxes up then
After my driving test I had a few lessons with an emegency service advanced driving instructor.
They use the skill because they are rapidly approaching complicated junctions where traffic obscures the road markings.
I have done this for years. It like that it gives you extra time and space to then help other drivers. You can predict when they are going to lane change late.
When you'vr got blue lights and a bloody siren blaring out you can pretty much choose whichever lane you want, including the wrong side of the road if necessary.
Confession straight away and even when I was a Qualified ADI (as well as a motorcycle rider from age 17) In the main a ‘floor watcher’ . Not saying I did not take in the Road Signs but mainly busy looking for that white paint . Useful point though that you can often also see how a junction is working by just watching traffic flow up ahead. Might now end up not having to go in the lane I did not need and have go the wrong way rather than switching lanes at the last second. I actually had a passenger tell me to do that a while ago. I course would not do it last minute and possibly cause an accident..
One thing that will help in reading the signs as early as possible: Having the best visual acuity that is possible for your eyes, corrected with prescription lenses if necessary. I feel the minimum eye sight requirement in the Uk sets a very low bar. The difference in how far you can read a road sign with 6/6 vision compared to 6/9 vision for example (which is still legal) I would imagine would be quite a considerable distance. This would obviously translate into how early or late you make decisions based on the information your eyes pick up. So get your eyes tested regularly, including for conditions such as cataracts. For the record, personally I have 6/6 vision in each eye. Oh and keep your windscreen clean too, not just from the outside via obvious use of wipers but the inside too which over time can collect a film of haze and cut down vision without you even realizing.
One of my pet peeves, dirty/misted/streaky windscreens, especially in the damper/colder months. A small chip or mark annoys the hell out of me. How people can supposedly see where they're going with a windscreen that's covered in streaks, fingerprints and god knows what else is beyond me 🤦♂️
@@mcdon2401 Agreed. Even worse is the ice "porthole" in winter.
I wholeheartedly agree. But then as an optometrist I would! I frequently make the point to my patients that the reason for needing optimum visual acuity behind the wheel is not so much about hazard avoidance or seeing unwary pedestrians stepping off the pavement, but more about being able to read signage well in advance so that safe, timely lane changes can be made.
@@NaturallyCuriousUK Very interesting to hear you are an optometrist. I am not in any way in the same profession but I had two very successful cataract surgeries back in October 2014. Just 2 weeks apart for both eyes, which I know is very unusual but it was due to being a very high myope at around -14 dioptres. To my surprise, as well as my surgeons, I ended up with 6/6+ vision bilaterally (i.e. in each eye). This is very unusual for someone who is at -14 dioptres. My colour and depth perception also improved immensely post op. I did get the classic PCO (Post Capsular Opacifcation) bilaterally post op but this was subsequently cured via YAG Laser capsolotomy.
@@ibs5080 delighted to hear you had such an excellent result 👍🙂👍
I just hate when signage says both lanes ahead to a particular destination, then it suddenly changes. You find yourself in the wrong lane and everyone else won't let you in the other because they think you're queue jumping
I prefer to look on Google maps before I go somewhere to look at road markings and signs so that I know what to expect when I come to them and know which lane I need to be in. I think studying the roads first is a better option before tackling it head on. Once you have been on that road or junction, it comes to you as second nature.
Telling your car to shut up when the crash warning came on made me smile, I do that regularly in my daily driver (Puma). I always try to look as far ahead as possible and tend to look for signs rather than road markings but intentions are to recognise both but looking far enough ahead should often negate the floor signs. On a spiral roundabout I probably look at the markings on the floor and look as far round as I can slightly more than signage.
When I first moved to the UK and started driving here I was a road watcher, possibly because of the novelty; my country of origin doesn't mark the road surface. Then I started regularly visiting a location that required me to negotiate London's Hanger Lane Gyratory. That quickly snapped me out of road watching.
😲 Congratulations! I know Hanger Lane very well. It is quite a challenge for experienced local drivers, let alone those from overseas. Navigating two major roads, A40 and A406, with several exits plus a roundabout is never easy. Traffic has to cross lanes at times, including a bus service, turning right from the A406 to the A40, as it makes a one way loop to avoid narrow roads.
as a veteran of Ainley Top, Chain Bar, and Tingley roundabouts in West Yorkshire (M62 junctions 24, 26 and 28), I always check signage
Chain Bar in particular is a beast of a thing, with seven exits and four lanes all the way around; if you don't pay attention to roadside signage and overhead signage, you're knackered
Hi
Just to say i find your channel very helpful, i have recently returned to driving after a long term illness and after some refresher course and a look at the updated highway code it was shocking to see how things have changed on the road it was a quite difficult after 5 year break but your videos was a huge help to me and i feel i am a better driver for it, im back driving full time now and much more at ease at the wheel, thanks for all your informative videos.
I was talking about this the other day. A major roundabout (Wolvercote) in Oxford from one direction has no signs for the roundabout! It only has floor markings!
Left lane has a straight on or left arrow (A44, A40(E)). Middle lane has a straight on arrow (A40(E)). Right lane has a straight on arrow (Oxf'd). The A44 is to the left. The A40(E) is straight over. There's then the A4144 into centre of Oxford about 2/3 o'clock and finally there's another minor road about 5 o'clock.
Technically straight on the A40 is still through Oxford. So the amount of people that go in that right hand lane going straight on is astounding. Every time the lights change there's always at least 2 cars trying to do this! I'm sure there's been countless accidents at this roundabout for it's terrible layout and signage. The fact there isn't a sign and drivers not local to the area would not know that Oxford in this case is meaning the A4144, I have to put the blame with the design of the roundabout.
Very helpful video on signage as that is my biggest worry due to focus, reading and understanding when something is new to me. I am a floor watcher which does mean things are delayed the the last minutes which make driving more difficult in my learning. However in ETS2 which is Euro Truck Simulator 2, a simulation game on steam, I do look at the signs and very really the floor which does help with knowing direction early for swifter action before getting slower making it easier to drive within the game. I need to use this piece of advice in real life when doing my lessons. Your content is extremely helpful in making my knowledge and understanding better for when it comes to driving. Thanks Ashley Neal for the content. I always look forward to new uploads.
As a long time map reader before longer journeys I build up a mental idea of general direction that i need to be going in. If you get the wrong lane, then stay in the lane until you can turn back safely and head back to where you made the mistake, of course watching the signs above not the road surface.
"The black BMW's probably on the phone" Lol! 🤣
Interesting video, think I'm quite good at looking a signs before the roads but not always.
Trying not to sound a smartass but your explanation made me realise that's why I don't struggle much at junctions (perhaps going through switch island twice a day for 5 years taught me too). Definitely a good way to read junctions. I also keep an eye for busses and trucks, generally busses won't be going up motorway exits and trucks often are and quite often know the route and can be seen from a long way back to read the exits
It's so easy to navigate and obey road markings and signs when you know the area well...
When you're in unfamiliar surroundings and road markings are hidden by other cars, signage is the only navigation and it's usually poor or totally ignored and the 'locals' implement their own version.
If I am in a strange area I always hope to be behind others coming up to junctions so I can see how the traffic flows so I can make an informed decision, but at the same time I am always happy to take the wrong road if I got in the wrong lane and not make snap decision causing danger to others like you frequently see on dashcam channels on TH-cam, you screw up, own it and just find a safe place to turn around.
I was on my way back from shopping once and there's a multitude of roundabouts along the route. I forgot where I was and took the wrong lane and then the wrong exit "oh well, this road runs parallel to what I wanted it will join up later... " no it didn't. Now I know!
It's a process as you approach . A decent sat nav indicates where the road layout you need is going to take you and then the signage ( if applicable ) supports the need to review road position . Road markings are the last confirmation . IMO it's the speed at which those decisions are made are the most critical .
“A decent sat nav” suggests that it is up to date - but when layouts have changed, many are out of date. There is no formal requirement for alterations to be advertised, or with commissioning of road changes to be timed along with he issue of map updates, or anything like that, unfortunately.
I'm from Belgium, I can only dream of roundabouts where every road is marked. The first ones have appeared recently (2022) but the UK roundabouts always feel so futuristic and efficient to me. Classic roundabouts here (with multiple lanes) usually have no road markings and no signs, as you can just choose any lane you want. There's people using the outer lane for going all around the roundabout, and there's people using the inner lanes to take the second exit. Total chaos. If you also consider the bad Belgian road sign design, you can tell why road layout here is a joke.
I like Simister Island (M66/M62/M60) because it has coloured lanes. There's 2 sets of red and green spiral lanes.
Once you check the overhead signs and get on the correct colour, you just follow it to your exit. Helps both the sign watchers and the road watchers
Thanks everytime I learn something new or I relearn something I have partially forgot or ignore.
I’m a floor watcher. This has blown my tiny mind but is so simple!
A current trend seems to have every lane on the approach to a roundabout to be marked "straight on". Right turn arrows on the ground are a dying breed. Very useful!!!
Passed my test in speke last Friday with zero faults. Thanks for your vidoes Ashley!
Great job!
Amazed that this is a problem. Markings on the road can often be worn out or hidden by other vehicles or worse. Around Birmingham many junctions are badly marked that if you follow a marked lane you end up in the wrong one as the markings you need have 'jumped' either to the right or left!!! I always use the signs first, this video by Ashley now explains why I see so many other road users that make a complete mess of such junctions! What does puzzle is when others make a mess they try to correct it at the very last moment invariably causing problems for others. I was taught that if you do mess up carry on till you can make a turn safely. Not being 'clever or smug' I put it down to the way my brain works, just seems so obvious. Great video Ashley, a good driver is always learning.
In Finland we often have snow and ice covering the road markings in the winter season. That's why the overhead signs are the most important source of information. 👍
HOW DID I KNOW THIS WOULD BE SWITCH ISLAND! You're right the markings (especially from M58) is completely abhorent!
I'm a sky watcher, I guide myself relating to star positioning
I guess that's sort of what's happening when you use GPS (except artificial satilites and not stars)
and use astrology to predict the location of other vehicles and hazards
Driving around Salisbury creates similar issues. Eg: On approach to one particular roundabout, the lane marking shows road x plus Y in a single lane, BUT taking that lane directly feeds ON the roundabout into road x only. You now have just a few yards on the roundabout to filter across into road y. If the traffic is not conducive..you’ll find yourself routed inescapably off on road x instead. I am positive the road layout designers never have to use the roads they mess with!
Roadway markikngs are far the exception where I have and now do my driving. These are great tips for my next visit to the UK. If I am close to missing a turn, I don't panic. I'll drive 10 km out of my way before I dive for an exit.
Always looking as far down the road as I can - this helps in hazard perception, planning and racing
That's also how you're meant to follow a satnav, don't pay attention to the road diagram, don't pay attention to the lane hint, just pay attention to the road and junction numbers, then match it with road signage, amazes me how many people haven't figured this one out
Road markings are all very well, but in heavy traffic they can be obsured by traffic. In the Summer months, some signs are so poorly placed and maintained that they get obsured by foliage. The signs for J33 on the M6 going south are a prime example of the latter.
I live somewhere where most folk ignore certain marking so everyone does the same. Following the marking just ends up a right mess.
On an unrelated note, queuing on the hardshoulder? M65 junction 4 is a daily occurrence, join the queue or try a squeeze in where you are supposed to with the risk of someone going into the back of you.
Take a piece of paper. Hold it up in front of you so that you have it horizontal in front of your eyes and try to read it. You will not be able to. Gradually raise it and see it slowly become readable.
That is what happens with markings in the road as you approach them and the rate at which they become readable depends on the speed your car is going - no matter how big the lettering is - so at best 70mph.
Compare that to a sign which is vertical. Provided it is close enough, the rate at which your eye receives sufficient information to read it is 670,616,629 miles per hour (i.e. the speed of light).
So using the signs will enable you to plan your route through the junction far earlier. The road markings then simply tell you the final part of the plan rather than being your only plan.
In Slovenia if I remember the hiarchy correctly it's: police officer signalling(very rare irl) > traffic lights(ex. you have a stop sign and green light at the same intersection you follow the light, not the sign) > traffic signs > road markings
Hi. Thanks for all your hard work putting your videos out on you tube. In reference to this video I am like you and look for all info available. Signs, road markings etc. I have always done so since passing my test in 1984. Maybe that has helped me just pass my IAM Advanced driving test with a F1rst. Keep up the good work.
Great video, good tips.
I don't think I have ever seen a video on this topic, so that was well worth the watch!
You mentioned road markings tend to fade. This is true. The other problem is that they may be covered by traffic so won't be visible to the driver until the very last fraction of a second! All the more reason to look at the junction and traffic first, then look at the signage and last (as confirmation) look at the road markings. Just like you say. Top job!
However, sadly, life is not always that simple. I have a roundabout near me that has two lanes going into it and four exits: at 9 o'clock; 12 o'clock; 3 o'clock and 6 o'clock. The last one is for those who want to go round the roundabout and back the way they came. It does happen on this roundabout because there is a NO RIGHT TURN on one of the approaches near a McDonalds on the right, so people wanting to go to the McDonalds have to swing all the way around the roundabout and come back towards the McDonalds exit.
Sadly the signage coming up to the roundabout does not tell you which of the two lanes to be in. But the road markings just before the entrance stipulate that, to go straight ahead, you MUST be in the left hand lane. The right hand lane is only for those turning right. Cue confusion both approaching the roundabout and on the roundabout!
It is funny watching how many people get switch island wrong. You can spot them a mile away just leave enough room for them to get it right and have a chuckle. Great vid as always Ashley
Great advice. There is only one junction I know of where it might fail, and that is the APPALLINGLY BADLY thought through and moronically over-complex Birchanger Green junction, on the A120/M11, where at some exits the "on road" markings appear to completely contradict what the "above road" signs have already indicated - thus leading to all sorts of confusion, and making it very tricky to navigate completely correctly and safely if approaching from certain directions.
Thankfully I am shortly moving over 300 miles away. I may miss my old home counties haunts, but I will also positively dance on the grave of never again having to navigate this truly abysmal piece of road design! How national highways ever signed off on it in the first place, defies comprehension.
I would often look at the floor for indications of which direction of travel is permitted for a given lane and signage for destination information. The thing is you don't process data from a single source in isolation, you gather information from all sources (including weather, other drivers etc.) together with experience, caution, awareness and context to progress safely.
Love your points, I do think this particular roundabout is very well marked though, I've come across so many that don't have such good signs. And I went through Notts a way I've not been before today, every roundabout was left lane left only and right lane for straight ahead and right. No clear signage apart from the road markings.
I don't personally find myself struggling with watching the floor, the issue I have is at junctions with lots of lane splits that are poorly signed, and feeling like I am the only one looking at the floor and going in the correct lane. Particularly at spiral roundabouts.
Where I live, near London where traffic is always pretty heavy, I actually find it's more dangerous to do spiral roundabouts "properly"... Because no other bugger does and they'll happily drive into the side of you if you follow the lane markings.
I thought I was a floor watcher but realised watching you drive through those junctions I use signs first to position and floors to back it up.
To be honest any junction that can't be understood at a glance is a failure of road planning. Sure it's often not possible to keep things simple because we don't have infinite space and we've built too many roads for cars, but if your junction requires drivers to be constantly looking for labels and diagrams and even then only really understand it after going through it a few dozen times then there's a more fundamental problem than "drivers just need to read the road".
If 90% get it wrong, I’d say the problem is the system, not the user.
Tbh the 90% stat seems like a bit of clickbait to me, I doubt it's that high
Is it? Then how do you improve the system? So many people get it wrong not because the signage is absent, difficult to see or illogical but because they aren't planning ahead. People get close to a junction *and then* decide what they are going to do.
How exactly can the system fix lazy driving? Because that is the root of the issue here.
@@jakerockznoodles The problem is the brain will always resort to that type of thinking. Conscious thinking takes the most effort and is the least preferred option, particularly when busy with other tasks. I presume (I’m not an evolutionary biologist) that this was due to the importance of preserving resources. I think one of the reasons new drivers often take surprisingly well to motorway driving is that they’re so simple. I imagine the optimum approach is an effective balance between too little and too much thinking. Often at unfamiliar junctions I’ve got a huge amount going on - looking at the SatNav, adjusting speed, keeping track of others around me. I need good, clear signage well in advance and as few options as possible.
Signs and a quick glance at the sat nav way before the junction works for me. The sat nav allows me to check the road at least 500 yards ahead and position myself properly for the next junction. Maybe I'm not really allowed to glance at the sat nav screen but it works for me.
For the slow town junctions, I don't worry what lane i'm in. Take it slow, look around, avoid sudden movements, and signal what you want to do for other road users to see. Stay calm, don't panic, and just go where you need to go.
Signs are definitely more helpful than road markings! Road markings can get worn out very easily but road signs can’t get worn out, although it’s annoying when a tree is in the way! 😁
The issue I have with road markings is that there are times with heavier traffic you do not see road markings either when it is too late or not at all. There are a number of these things that can hinder a motorist which include bad signs, faded markings older or incomplete un-updated satnavs or satnavs with bad descriptions or lagging road positions. So there are times where unfamiliar roads can be dangerous if you do not have your whits about you and learn to anticipate such dangers.
This may be so at that particular junction, however, how car hating councils do have an habit of removing direction sign, and instead badly painting directions in the roads. Harlow is known for it's number of roundabouts, but successive councils have marred them with traffic lights, pedestrian crossings off one exit/ entry. and three lanes painted where there are only two going in. And a hamburger roundabout with lights. You need to be a house fly to observe all the information and complete with these, the bus lane and cycle lanes.
Here in Johannesburg, where corruption and incompetence means there’s often no money or simply no plan to replace stolen or otherwise “disappeared” road signs, or signs are hidden behind a bush that hasn’t been trimmed for years, sometimes the worn out road markings are all you have to go on to see if you’re coming up to a stop, for example.
Where I live, the roads are covered in snow and ice for up to half the year. During that time, road markings might as well not exist. You can only see where lanes are because of the ruts!
Do people really prioritise road markings over signs? This all seems pretty standard to me and I don't even do a lot of motorway driving. When I have, I'm always using the overhead signs as they make it extremely clear which lane is for where
Sadly, yes. I don't know about 90%, but certainly way too many people don't seem to pay much attention to signs any more. I'll even semi-frequently be asked by someone what the speed limit is when they've passed multiple signs telling them when I'm a passenger.
Looking ahead helps you to anticipate. Anticipating helps you save fuel. Whenever I need navigation for a bit of road I'm not familiar with, I use 2 satnavs. It tells me where to be and the next change in direction miles in advance.
Round here, sometimes the floor markings are the only clue which lane you NEED to be in. And sometimes there is traffic sitting on those markings and non-=local people get (understandably) into the wrong lane.
Your example looked pretty straightforward to me (I used the floor markings as backup only). I would have had my eye in the mirror for someone wanting to pass me in the other lane. If I was to nitpick, I would say the first sign though had perhaps too much information
I was always encouraged and taught that _Signage_ _is_ _Primary_ and Road markings are secondary and there only to re-affirm or supplement the signs
Floor watcher especially at roundabouts. Seen too many videos of cars crossing lanes. Will see what I can change after this advice.
Keep your eyes high, what I've always said to my students. Signs are much easier to see from afar than a road marking.
The Tesla overreacting? At least it only screams. Daf trucks pause for a second then go full panic, often After the danger has no got out of the way. 1st had this 2013, trucking up M1 @ 55 in lane 1. Car in lane 3 decides to cut across for the services last minute, braking as they do so. I flicked off the cruise control to ease off just a tad, and as I flicked it back on as the car fully left lane 1 into the exit slip, AEBS kicked in, testing my seatbelt, the security of the windscreen (as my face hit it in imaginary comedy) and the reactions of the driver behind as I anchored up from 55-20 full braking; all without me touching a pedal!
Nice video. I learnt this many years ago, as back then markings on the road surface were not that common; so much so that I got lost in London when signage dried up, and markings were at that point on the road. That geographical embarrassment was exacerbated by poor directions from an inebriated postie. Fun times
Take a look at junction 28 on the M25, going from M25 Northbound to A12 Eastbound. The lanes merge totally unexpectedly as you enter the roundabout, and without fail, people will end up in the wrong lane. I've seen multiple accidents here, once stuck for 3 hours just waiting for it to clear.
In slow traffic, often the floor markings are not visible except for a fraction of a second when you're almost on top of them. That's an additional reason to prioritise the signage.
Sometimes if you are alongside a tall vehicle on your left for a long time perhaps it will obscure the signage as well, so when that happens why not drop back to look through the gap, both at any signs and possibly on the floor too
I am a floor watcher and I'll try your tip. Thanks for the video Ashley
In Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire several of the roads have incorrectly markings so its easy to find yourself in the wrong lane if you dont know the area. Also the local authority have taken to marking out the lanes on the roundabouts which encourage drivers to stay in lane on roundabouts, consequently there have been many accidents as some drivers turn right from the left land lane.
In my experience a significant portion of drivers don't even care about which lane to be in and will happily cut across multiple lanes, where they couldn't possibly have thought they started out in the correct lane (rightmost lane to turn left?)
The other problem, particularly on roundabouts, can be drivers changing lane by going straight, while the lanes shift left to make space for new ones on the right.
If you are concentrating on the road markings then the chances are that you will not see a hazard or incident 100 meters further up the road. I always try to see what is happening further ahead as it's going to allow more time for me to react. Too many RTC's happen because so many don't look any further ahead than the end of the bonnet 🤔. Worn road markings - even when they don't contradict a road sign - are also an issue.
Oh.... and don't get me started on certain SatNav products that will send you in the wrong direction.
Stay safe everyone 👍.
My biggest hate is unfamiliar road layouts. Especially in areas where the local authority hasn’t spent any money ensuring the signage is in good condition and correct or there at all.
Good road signage is crucial and some areas have good signage but there are areas with terrible signage and one in particular is the exit from the M25 to A25 to Sevenoaks as you exit, you see a sign indicating a lane merge but the exit lane (if you did not know) ends up as a left only turn which will take you away from the main road which is the A25 to Sevenoaks, I was caught out the first time I went there and the same thing happened to my colleague who was driving to the area. Now I have been there I know to expect it. There is lane signage on the central reservation of the A25 to the very right but the exit road is mere yards from forcing a left turn which is poor signage. It is worse when the road is busy because unless you know the area you will get caught out no matter how good a driver you are. Another place with multiple lanes and and heavy traffic is the notorious Aston Expressway otherwise known as the Spaghetti Junction in Birmingham, the exit slip roads have exits within them and can easily confuse drivers especially if the traffic is bad which it normally is on that particular junction.
Great video Ashley, this is a real problem when driving a truck as people suddenly change lanes because of what you have pointed out. I'm constantly checking mirrors because people realise they are in the wrong lane. I must admit though it's easier to see the junction layout in a truck because I'm higher up. Keep up the good work 👍
There's often a conflict between the floor and the signs - and sometimes both are extremely poor.
I live in Cambridge, where a lot of the roads have changed, and there's still signs that haven't been removed or replaced for the old road layout - it really is a mess.
An up-to-date sat-nav is the only safe option for some areas. Set to 3D mode where you can clearly see the virtual navigator's visualisation of the path you should take through the junction/roundabout.
Even then - my SatNav told me to stay in the left lane in London (and left was where I wanted to go) ... I slammed on the brakes! .. I was an inch away from entering a bus-lane, on the other side of a junction, masked by other vehicles - which would have got me a fine due to a rather unforgiving camera.
Hi Ashley, when you started this video I was thinking a bit about what I do when driving in unfamiliar places and I knew what you were going to show us, looking for signs and roadside features from a long way away, I do remember having to learn this technique many year ago when I travelled all over the place at very high speed on a variety of powerful motorcycles, form and early stage I discovered just how important it can be to look a long way up the road, at the sorts of speeds I was doing, often two or three times the legal limits except on motorways where sustained speeds much of over the limit can be extremely tiring!. On county road and in towns and villages almost any mis-judgement could end in tears!, I even had to learn top look very carefully at the road surfaces especially on the way into corners!. The fact that I survived all that reckless adventuring was largely due to a combination of fast reflexes and persistent observation, more recently I have become aware of the fact that I still apply the same observation habits now at much more moderate velocity!, what it involves is the persistent relentless switching of focus to as many parts of the environment as I can, including the instruments and mirrors,, changing what ~I look at every fraction of each second, occasionally have a bit of a break if I am on a clear straight stretch,
That thing about the large road signs I always assume is why they are so large in the first place, first you have to see them then read them then check them! all the time alternating observation of everything else. This all started with me wanting to stay alive!, now it is more a matter of not wanting to hurt anyone else!.
Cheers, Richard.
What surprises me is that you think 90% of drivers don't do this. I mean you may be correct, but it's a bit depressing.
I do occasionally get caught out on roads I don't know (which means I'm also probably towing a caravan too) because poor signage can place you in 'not the best' lane - but never dangerously if you just ease off and indicate and observe in order to correct the error.
My biggest bug-bear on my former regular commute on a dual-carriageway was people who moved into the right hand lane at the '2/3 mile' sign (hazard lines) rather than waiting till they reached the 'get in lane' sign (lane markings). I do suspect that 90% of drivers don't understand the difference between the lines. Some drivers even moved over as they left the previous roundabout some 2 miles before the 'get in lane' sign and then proceeded to hold up traffic in that right hand lane. Thank goodness I'm so calm! 😁
Hi Ashley, great advice, I always use the road signage, as you pointed out, they are visible way before the road markings, especially when traffic is heavy and slow, this makes using the road markings almost impossible to see, when the traffic is obscuring them. Keep up the great informative videos buddy 👍🏼
For years if you approached from Maghull the signage said left lane for Liverpool but it was the right hand lane that split into two causing last minute lane changes.
Good advice Ashley, though I would have to disagree about the signage on Switch being OK. Coming from Ormskirk and wanting to get on the A5758 to Southport, the only sign you get is if you've followed the M57/A59 lanes, which is simply too late. I've seen numerous vehicles trying to do an instinctive but illegal right turn off the straight-through lanes to Bootle, with all the attendant frustration, danger (and accidents) this causes.
Yes absolutely - this route is awful. Easier for us as we know it but people out of the area have no chance.
I'm glad its not just me that shouts at the car when its collision detection warning goes off even when its all in control. Except, you were more polite than me.
Agree overall, theres maybe a point i wonder about after this; theres a surprising amount of signage ive seen on the roads that you touch on can be faded or weather damaged, but imo its remarkably common for them to be obscured by branches, trees, bushes etc! Idk what its like in liverpool but ive deffo seen a few up my way. At that point like you say id agree with your point that its a good backup to have, but signs can be hard to register in time if theres too much debris/foliage or whatever you want to call it in the way.
Direction arrows on the ground can be... odd, too, have seen "left turn only" arrows before but theres actually couple of exits you can take from them, one into say a local access/cul de sac and another "left" exit to carry on onto a main road. Im pretty certain im not misreading it before anyone says, ha, fittingly enough theres signage at the roundabout im thinking of in particular that makes it a lot clearer where you can go from each lane! :D but if you just followed the arrows on the ground you might technically think "oh this is for the 1st exit only"...
Thanks for this I've found myself cutting lanes because I've been searching for road markings too often.
Ahh, Switch Island, I know it well. I can remember when it was just a small single roundabout and Ormskirk Road to the Old Roan was a single carriageway! On the current junction the illuminated road markings that light up when the lights change are pretty neat.
There is a newly built junction on the A585 in Thornton Cleveleys close to where I now live, known as the Norcross Roundabout, for which many drivers should see this video. Again, they blame the road markings for appearing too late, completely missing the whopping big signs 100s of yards earlier!
I already do look at both the signs and the floor markngs as bit difficult to quickly swap lanes at busy junctions in a HGV. However, I have never paid much attention to notice that they are signs before the markings. I usually use the signs first as you dont usually get traffic parked on top of them unlike the markings on the floor.
Normally signs first, road markings second and as confirmation. Some approaches to roundabouts do not have a sign showing the lanes and so you try to work it out by " is it the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th exit I need and try to position accordingly, the road markings then become the confirmation or correction you need. Very surprised it would be 90% going by road markings only
only use road markings when I have to, when I was on the road well before satnav, I had a map, a pair of eyes and my brain. I still use them now, apart from the map, there's only five roads in The Highlands, nice one Ashley
Even simple roundabouts can be an issue. There's one roundabout in our town with only four roads - but because it's a bit awkwardly laid out, on two of these roads the left lane is for turning left only. But there's only road markings (late as per) and no signage. People new to the town often try to go straight from the left lane as you would at any other roundabout. I've had two near-misses in the seven years we've lived here.
in the states, it's customary to only have signs, and the only markings "on the floor" are indicating whether lanes turn, go straight ahead, or a combination thereof. so obviously, that conditions me to use signs. but it occurs to me that if a driver is relying on road markings, that means they are not driving any further ahead than the back of the car in front of them.