The Queen VS Thatcher: The Battle Over South Africa | The Crown (Olivia Colman, Gillian Anderson)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ม.ค. 2025
- In this captivating encounter, my dears, we watch two powerhouses of acting portraying two powerhouses of history. Witness Queen Elizabeth II (Olivia Colman) and Margaret Thatcher (Gillian Anderson) spar in a dialogue of historical weight. They delve into significant matters but fail to see eye to eye, which results in The Queen giving Thatcher what could be perceived as a direct order.
🔎The Crown Season 4, Episode 8 '48:1'
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🎬The Crown (2016-2023): Follows the political rivalries and romance of Queen Elizabeth II's reign and the events that shaped the second half of the 20th century.
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#theCrown #theQueen #QueenElizabeth #OliviaColman #GillianAnderson #MargaretThatcher #MovingPictures
Whose side are you on, The Queen or Thatcher?
The Queen was out of her depth on this one by a far way.
The Queen's, obviously. An apartheid regime cannot be treated as a valued partner.
Thatcher.
@@Fauntleroy. Do you know that the Queen was instrumental in the apartheid laws? I guess not! She was head of state of SA when many of the apartheid laws were enacted.
Also, I guess you also do not know that one of the reasons why apartheid continued until about 1990 was so that SA could serve as a bulwark against communism, especially being that the ANC at the time was a devout communist movement. The Berlin Wall was brought down in 1989 and Nelson Mandela was released from jail in 1990.
Do you also not know that the UK played a significant role in separate development in SA. South Africa was a colony of Britain from 1806 and ceased being one in 1961 when SA became a republic. During this time, black people were not allowed to vote. With apartheid laws being introduced black people became entitled to vote but only in designated black areas. Britain introduced the Hut Tax in 1849 which effectively forced black men to work in the mines. Also, the British sovereign had no qualms taking the Cullinan diamond in 1907, rather than insisting it be used to help impoverished South Africans. The Queen never offered to return the diamond.
Do you also not know that as mentioned by Dennis Worrall at the time, that many Commonwealth countries had worse human rights records than SA. The Queen had no problem with these countries.
I guess you also do not know that many Commonwealth countries were (and still are) economically dependent on SA? In this regard, both Swaziland and Lesotho get a large portion of their revenue from custom monies from SA. Also, landlocked Zimbabwe, Botswana and Zambia have a great dependency on SA.
@johnjames6620 applause to you.👏
Queen was so out of her depth living in an ivory tower. I do wonder who her silly advisors were? Brit royalty should now stay out of politics. Concern themselves with plight of their own country people. Ruling party here still communistic.. n still refer to each other as comrades still. Tears for countries.. wasted lands.
Ex Rhodie.
The way Gillian Anderson says 'Yes, the Commonwealth' is just SO devastating, and such a power play. She really did nail this role 👏👏👏.
and the way she lowered her face... brilhant... so believable
Thatcher and Reagan both refused to criticize the apartheid regime, with Reagan going so far as vetoing legislation (a veto that was overridden by Congress).
It’s like Israel now.
yeah, and South Africa is doing sooo well now
@@AlexandraAndStuff whatever helps you sleep at night, friend.
@@ericdaniel323 lol, yes, I was born in the 90s in Europe,I totally feel guilty for apratheid
@@AlexandraAndStuff so you think it would be better of under white minority rule?
Just bear in mind that Margaret Thatcher was granted a state funeral by the late Queen, something only granted in recent times to Winston Churchill. The Queen and Thatcher had a significant relationship for a significant period and there was respect on both sides as well as differences and forthright debate. All of this dialogue is of course conjecture and drama. The fact remains that Thatcher was respected highly enough to garner a state funeral. It's always a good starting point to analyse their relationship from that - the late Queen didnt' just dish out the state funeral willy nilly. Nothing for Eden, Callaghan, Macmillan, Wilson etc
probably since thatcher and churchill both served for literally as long as they could, as opposed to other prime ministers that willingly left office
Yet she also publicly condemned she leadership over this issue and was one of the reasons her own party told her to step down.
This dialogue is propaganda, not drama.
Olivia Colman performance is perfect as usual. I still can’t believe Thatcher is played by the same actress that was Scully in X Files. Just wow.
Coincido contigo.
I think Gillian Anderson had been living in England for 2 decades before playing the role Thatcher.
Exaaaactly!!! Thats Scully!!!!!😆😆😆
@toriesout8692.......Totally agree - both Olivia Colman's and Gillian Anderson's performances are stunning, and their 'impersonations' of the Queen and Thatcher [respectively] are absolutely stunning!
I have never been a big fan of these kinds of films, but I have to say that having seen this short excerpt, I would very much like to watch this film in its entirety now.
@@JM-ct9mxmore like nearly 40 years maybe more she lived in London as a kid and moved back here when she was an adult her accent is brilliant
I looked it up. She never did sign the resolution and firmly sided with the white led South African government
they didnt call her the iron lady for nothing!!!
They didn’t (and don’t) call her a world-class B for nothing!
@@Yowzoe Do you have any idea of South Africa and apartheid:
1. Did you know that it was the British that introduced the Hut Tax, thereby forcing black people to leave their families to work in the mines?
2. That the Queen was Head of State of SA when many apartheid laws were enacted?
3. That many Commonwealth countries had worse human rights records than SA?
4. That many Commonwealth countries were heavily dependent on the SA economy, including Swaziland, Lesotho, Zimbabwe and Zambia? What were the Queen's plans for these economies?
@@johnjames6620 In other words: "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! Wait, oh! Look at that shiny thing, over there!"
@@johnjames6620 Yes, I was very vaguely aware of the first, and I knew of the last three. I had to look up the 1884 Hut Tax, I knew they were precursors to what eventually became the official policy of apartheid… no surprise there for anyone aware of history, I think. Your #3 is quite relative, obviously, and is really here nor there.
Are you really an apologist for the South African racist apartheid regime which had ample opportunity between say, 1950 and 1990 to wise up instead of tightening up in 10,000 different ways? So many bad choices by White South Africans! Have you spent your energy constructing an intellectual framework to justify what was extremely twisted institutional evil?
The British and the West owed it to South Africans to enable the anti-apartheid movement, even if their unimaginative leaders, including Reagan and Thatcher, clung to the status quo for fear of communism. As a college student in California in the 80s, this was my tiny involvement.
What has come since in SA has no relation to what has was achieved in the 90s. Though it is now clearly a massive shitshow, it is *still* better than your apparent alternative because Black South Africans own their mess, as the fictional queen here says. You must put yourself in *their* shoes. The British and the West could have poured attention and resources and effort after the transition from de Klerk, and since. They did not.
That SA was a successful capitalist economy post-WWII, and that the ANC now is a an absolutely corrupt and inept nightmare has no relationship to the end of apartheid - *this was never inevitable* . It's true that much of South Africa political life now is as ridiculous and OTT as the woke left in my own country. Again, this is regrettable but cannot be attributed to the end of the unsustainable, racist, deeply-ugly apartheid policy South Africa in the 1900s. Don't begin to defend it.
It’s sad to me you apparently put mental effort into defensive, revisionist, counterfactual thinking. You could put that same energy into realistic solutions, which is what is needed. But I can't expect you to change your spots 🐆
“Tribal leader in an eccentric costume”
Spot on description of the monarchy. No way the queen described herself so honestly.
Facts
For all Thatcher's rhetoric and pretense on ideals, it was her nepotism that made her reluctant to impose sanctions on South Africa. Her son's business was based there, and he would fund a failed coup in the following years.
There was also the Cold War to consider. South Africa was an ally of the West against the Soviet bloc, while the black states and groups seeking to overthrow the government were Communist or allied with the Communists.
The coup was not in South Africa.
Citation for that apparent socialist lie is direly needed.... Anyone with common sense knows it was both Cold War politics and, you know, the fact the ANC was going around bombing, murdering and looting and promised nothing of any note would improve, nor did it.
It would be a tad hypocritical if, say, Labour seized power at the time and condemned savage IRA murderers for placing bombs against innocent civilians, then embraced the ANC regime for placing bombs against innocent people.
Apologies to any IRA murderers and terrorists who may be reading, I don't mean to call you racist by comparing them to the ANC.
Seeking to overthrow a government, oh please. We wanted to end apartheid and the Soviets were one of the first to help us with our struggle for equality. Most of the Western countries, as clearly shown in this clip supported apartheid until they absolutely couldn't as a result of the killings. America's Ronald Reagan also supported apartheid. South Africa is not a communist country, we were helped by communists, don't confuse the two.
@@ElethuDuna
"Struggle for equality" 😆
You may be a racist, but you have a sense of humour.
Not sure the real queen was self aware enough to know she's "a tribal leader in eccentric costumes", but it's a great line and holds much truth.
its a crap line and holds zero truth. But it sounds pretty for idiots like you 😍
👍
I wish I could have had one argument with this level of mutual restraint.
@JoshMcClellan4838
Yea, I'm not with you on this one.
@@EchezonaDibiaDid NOT expect Biafra on here.
*Give or take, the British Monarchy IS a tribe in eccentric costumes and much material for tabloids and tourists.*
It's certainly isn't tribal, maybe a bit eccentric for some.
But it was MADE to be a tourist attraction and to remain as a relict of old.
No one laughs at Mohammed Bin Salman as a tribal leader. It's just that the British monarchy is like a gift wrap but someone took the gift out. It's still pretty but kinda lost it's purpose.
I think anyone can point out that apartheid in South Africa was brutal and unjust. However, Thatcher's criticisms of tribal culture turned out to be correct, as Africa is in constant disarray within itself and the leaders are constantly battling their people and pocketing the entirety of the wealth of their nations. Botswana is the only relatively peaceful country that decided against tribalism, whereas a country like South Africa post-Mandela has been nothing but a chaotic down whirl spiral, where the majority black population still deem the Boer (white farming class of South Africa) as the reason of their decline, even 33 years later.
The Commonwealth isnt made of just african nations, you m*ron.
That is the result of colonialism and no it is not healed in one generation.
The same can be applied to every other culture. As for leaders pocketing the wealth, have a good long hard look at the United States.
What an ignorant and childish view of the world. May you end up like Thatcher
😂😂 South Africa has no tribal wars, no terrorism, the black population is very much better than it was during apartheid, they are one of the most educated, their living standards have been improved, the black middle class is now the largest, but their criticism of white control over the resources is correct.
what a scene. i could watch hours of these two tangling
I hated Thatcher to the core and will never forgive her for some of the things she did, however, Gillian Anderson manages to make her look reasonable. Not an easy task.
That woman has tons of acting experience and quite a range, talent-wise. She was well cast for the TV Show.
As I am German, I have no opinion on the matter discussed. I am just here to listen to two women speaking the most beautifully sounding English that anyone can imagine. Gives me showers down my spine.
do you mean shudders?
@@workoutrex9041 No, I meant "shivers". 😁
Umm look up German South West Africa. We passed to South Africa.look.it up
You need to have an opinion of Germany’s record of Genocides in :
German SW Africa , WW2 , and in the support of the Z!0nist Genocide
Most beautiful? Never. Donegal accent number 1, Kenyan number 2 Glasgow number 3. These accents sound like nails on chalkboard to me. So cold and distant
Each side did great acting.
I completely understand The Queen’s fondness and passion towards the commonwealth, it certainly meant a great deal to her. I live in Britain and I consider myself to be very much a royalist, however I do believe her majesty was in the wrong here. The Queen expressing her viewpoints regarding the matter to the prime minister privately is completely fine, but pressurising the prime minister into making this decision considering what I do acknowledge to be the Queen’s inexperience and lack of qualification to make these decisions is entirely wrong. The pure reason why in 1721 Britain decided to have a Prime minister is to elect people democratically that they believe are the right people to do the job, and it is those people who should decide, I do believe her majesty was out depth regarding this matter and must recognise the fact that the monarch’s role is to not act against the Prime Minister and cause unprecedented havoc in the UK, a monarch must never announce their political views to the public and I truly believe this was a massive error of judgement made my the late Queen.
Translation - I am a white male
@@RK-um9tuNo one cares.
At this point I fail to see what the point of a monarch is if they have virtually no power
But that just highlights the uselessness of a symbolic head of State and just how immoral the mere concept of being "politically neutral" is. I mean, how do you remain neutral in the face of a head of government who is supporting racial seggregation?
I’d counter with 2 points. Firstly the first PMs (as in early 1700s) weren’t exactly elected, that sort of was an accidental discovery overtime. Originally the monarch would personally appoint someone they liked and most importantly could lead parliament and get shit done, this became precluded by growing competence between the politicians so the tradition instead became the monarch would let parliament sort out amongst themselves who’d could run things and then the monarch would work with whomever they chose. I know that’s pedantic but yeah ok I’m annoying
Second I’d argue it’s entirely the right of the queen to advise any of her PMs in any of her countries. She was well within the bounds of law & convention to ask the PM to sign sanctions against a countries policies so shocking they disturbed much of the world including many allies, several commonwealth countries & of course many of the queens other realms to which she is equally queen of in their own right. The royal family have always been committed to democracy but many such as Elizabeth Charles & William are personally concerned for HR & other things, while they cannot let these feelings get in the way of their role or commitments they can still discretely and respectfully advocate for them with those in power.
Also I’ll admit I’m left wing, monarchist & young & live in a different country so despite my points I do appreciate the sincerity of your view
At the time growing up in Ireland, I supported the regime change in South Africa in support of Nelson Mandela and the ANC, as I’m certainly no racist and I know that the Irish government were being pushed to impose sanctions against South Africa by the Dunnes Stores strikers who refused to handle South African goods as per a trade Union instruction - looking at the terrible state of South Africa today decades later and after Nelson Mandela’s passing, I sometimes wonder what was it all for, was it really worth all the effort - the white farmers of South Africa have become the relentlessly hunted and no one in the international community today are prepared to help them as they are being relentlessly persecuted and even killed
It was and it is. Just because racism now applies to white people doesn't mean racial injustice was based and should stayed intact.
I always encourage white people on Africa to leave but if they are to remain, hey, instead of pointing fingers let's get rid of corrupt goverments. South Africa just did! ANC is sharing power for the first time in 30 years now.
Decolonization is painful but inevitable, and being on the right side of history has to be a moral imperative, despite not seeing the fruits in our own lives.
Don't steal land, then
I don't doubt being a white South African is scary, but they are the ones least likely to be victims of crime in South Africa. They just have less tolerance for it and also if nothing else they can afford to protect themselves.
I think societies learn when they take responsibility for their own countries. And in any case, the alternative to democracy probably would have been a full blown race war.
I see a bit of hope politically. Zuma is not President, the ANC lost their majority as all parties should at some point, and they peacefully invited other parties, generally to their right, generally with disproportionate numbers of racial minorities, into their cabinet. There's a white politician I like watching who became mayor in a township partially since he speaks fluent Zulu and grew up with Zulu friends.
So there's hate, but there's also effort.
@@jasonhaven7170 Poor ignorant leftist woke.
I love the witty banter between the two!😂
The wit is ALL on the side of HM the Q! Attila the Hen is merely spouting right-wing gibberish!
@@richardcleveland8549 Do you ever think before you write this kind of tripe? Thought and consideration are not contemptuous four letter words.
@@GTJIGPC Ahhhhhhhh, spoken like a dark-blue recidivist Tory!
@@richardcleveland8549 Don't live in the UK. Thank God given you're being governed like a king by a government than just won less than 20% of the support of your adult population. Sorry for breaking your bubble of anti-thought, however.
Thatcher simply failed to take into account how much the Commonwealth meant to the monarch.
You do realise this is a pack of lies, even though these characters are based on real people?
But she understood what would happen to South Africa if the blacks got their hands on the levers of power.
@@dannyarcher6370 And yet when the natives got their hands on power, they forgave the whites who imprisoned and murdered and persecuted them, you racist.
@@dannyarcher6370who? Because if you mean Thatcher, you are a racist
@@dannyarcher6370 "the blacks"??? You mean the rightful owners of South Africa? Those who had been enslaved and suppressed by white people for hundreds of years?
Thatcher and Reagan be like, "End Apartheid in South Africa? Let's not and say we did."
@@noahboy7309 a large (but not surprising) number of American conservatives credit Reagan with single-handedly ending the apartheid regime through economic sanctions despite the fact that he vetoed the legislation that imposed them.
@@ericdaniel323
Ikr, it's ridiculous
@@ericdaniel323Reagan knew that sanctions would only hurt the black population. He cared more about actually doing right instead of just optics, unlike most politicians.
@@Akihito007 whatever helps you sleep at night
@@ericdaniel323 It’s called historical fact. Quit being a Leftist, lying jackass.
Olivia Colman is perfect as the Queen here. The comparison to her and “tribal leaders in eccentric costume” is spot on and perfectly calls out Thatcher’s racism. How is the Queen any different?
She is pretty different. If you seriously think about it, her comparing herself to military dictators in unstable countries is not that clever. It does undermine her claim.
@@Loxias1989 That is the nuance here. The Queen was attacking the "Tribal leaders" bit, but originally, Thatcher showed her disdain for military leaders, that did not have any legitimacy to call themselves sovereigns or President or whatever. Of course, she also did herself in by mentioning William the Conqueror, who was actually, nothing less or more than a military leader without legitimacy, who took the english throne by brutal force and established an apartheid system in early normannic England.
This is a fine duell with attack, riposte, blocks...and mistakes, too, from both of them.
@PandaPanda-ud4ne well actually William the Conqueror had a claim on the English throne ; he had been promised it by the previous king , Harold too had promised to support his claim and the pope had approved it. His violent rule, with many massacres and "apartheid" , was sadly extremely common at the time and not different from the Viking rule of England. Vikings loved slavery and violence. As a Republican I do agree that monarchy is outdated. But you gotta respect History and the constitutional order. Elizabeth II had no family link to the Plantagenet dynasty tho.
@@PandaPanda-ud4ne idk why my answer got removed
wow
Gillian Anderson is extraordinary
Is that voice her own? I am blown away
It’s an interesting contrast. The queen grew up in wealth and privilege but on the other hand that allowed her to be well traveled and gave her more perspective on the old empire/commonwealth/international relations that Margaret didn’t have. Margaret worked up the hard way from a small town which made her more insular but with more perspective on the common working people in the uk that maybe the queen didn’t have.
Margaret worked her way up and earned her qualifications from study and hard work then working up as an MP. The Queen simply inherited her role but lost her father, everything she knows as a stateswoman she learned on the job which has value too. Although it’s mostly dramatised the crown did a good job portraying the dichotomy/similarities of the two.
Thatcher did not think like the "common people", she thought like the middle class. Racist, fearful, ignorant, narrow-minded.
Easy for the queen to not be concerned about the 3Billion in trade of the jobs lost. Not so easy for Thatcher, who had to face those disgruntled workers at the poll.
@Look_Over_There a fairy over view of sometimes visiting a country or two. Not a wholesome.. of on the ground consequences to anything.
"Margaret worked up the hard way from a small town which made her more insular but with more perspective on the common working people in the uk that maybe the queen didn’t have." -- common working people whom she apparently hated and spent her entire premiership trying to fuck over as much as humanly possible at the behest of the financial banking elite in London.
A leader's duty is to her own people and their best interests
Not to play crusader in other peoples affairs
The Queen does have the right, according to Bagehot, to advise, to warn, and to encourage the Government of the day. She was within her rights to advise, to warn, and to encourage, in private, the PM. The Queen often, as I understand it, gently made her points through asking questions. Again, it was perfectly within the Constitution to ask questions and to probe for information. While not stated, it is understood that The Monarch is to be kept informed all along the way.
Absolutely dumb, and probably why the UK don't have good monarchs.
and thatcher was right .
Explain how enabling apartheid was "right"?
@@vertigo2894 South Africa is now a failed state on genocide watch for the white population. Their biggest party sings songs about killing the boer.
Yes, Thatcher was right the Queen was awful! Proof that the Queen has lost all of Britain to African Migrants. The Queen gave away the UK to corrupt globalists to African Migrants. This is the SHIT HOLE known as the UK today.
Well. They're both magnificent actors, doing a sterling job. But I can't for a second believe that Margaret Thatcher would ever have spoken to the Queen in this way. They didn't much like each other, that much is known, but this is far too much.
It is strange to those of us not familiar with the British system of government, but in fact the British sovereign (king or queen) rules according to a structure of laws written by Parliament. Parliament is the ultimate authority, not the Sovereign. Parliament created the modern monarchy, not the other war around. But neither is the Prime Minister alone the ultimate authority. The sovereign rules within a narrow scope, and among those limitations is that the Parliament, effectively, and not the sovereign , choses her ministers and the ministers direct almost all policies without interference from the sovereign. The sovereign’s powers in theory are to merely withhold royal assent (approval) of new laws and theoretically to dissolve Parliament (or to prevent it re-opening for the time being). But if the queen had insisted, likely Thatcher and the conservative government would have resigned. And the Parliament as a whole would have likely seen the act as an imposition on Parliamentary authority, dug in their heels, and they might even have passed laws further restricting the scope of the sovereign’s authority. And the whole thing might end with a dissolution of Parliament and the Queen unilaterally calling snap elections, or some other sort of crisis, even some radical step, such as the sovereign attempting to overstep her authority by ruling without parliament, which is already unlawful, which would be more likely to end with the diminution of royal power than with any increase in royal power, and would not have likely even accomplished anything politically in terms of policy or a re-alligning if political authority.
re: Parliament is the ultimate authority.
In practice, this is true, but only because of the legal fiction that the monarch is still technically supreme but the Cabinet (the PM and the Ministers of the Crown), which has the confidence of the House of Commons, act in the Monarch's name. Because the fiction can intrude on reality, you're right when you write that Government must call elections and resign when it no longer has the monarch's support. Yet this only happens in novels or dramas. But it can get very complicated, as when James II threatened the nation's stability, when George III threatened Parliamentary supremacy (they labeled him "mad") or when Edward VIII was a pro-Nazi and wanted to rule not just reign.
@@michaelbayer5094 I believe that political reality trumps constitutional law. But in fact the parliament created this monarchy in 1689, and it did not pass ultimate constitutional authority to the monarch. Further the UK has no written constitution. But, the Monarch must assent to all laws, but the monarch must follow the advice of her ministers under the constitution, so it is most correct to say that the parliament is unlawful if it acts without royal assent, but the sovereign is unlawful if she does not follow the advice of her ministers. But the ministers really serve at the pleasure of the sovereign and the parliament semi-independently. But I maintain that Parliament could change the constitution, and thereby change the role of the monarch, and royal assent would not be required, and that would be much less unlawful than the monarch unilaterally changing the constitution. The Oath of Assention Act literally recognizes the constitutional supremacy of Parliament. Later acts of parliament amendment this core constitutional law as well. I’m referring to the UK, but in fact the situation with respect to Scotland and the rest of the UK and the commonwealth is somewhat more complicated, bringing up principles of conquest and later parliamentary developments. So effectively, I’m actually really referring to England and possibly Wales.
Parliament worked so well when they outed the king that they had to bring a king back a few years later to get back on track. Idiots in parliament come and go, but ironically, the stabilizing factor is the sovereign.
@@Jayzilla-jr4fr Theu did so largely to make parliamentary authority more legitimate. The Parliament placed the ministers ahead of the sovereign in many respects, in what amounted to a series of checks and balances between sovereign and ministers, elected from parliament.
Right. But the issue here is not that the Queen was considering directly challenging Prime Minister or Parliament. The rub is the Queen holds her position as the head of the Commonwealth personally -- Parliament and the Prime Minister have no say here. And the Queen takes her duties in such a role very seriously.
While on one hand the Queen is duty bound to not interfere with the Prime Minister's handling of foreign policy, on the other hand the Queen might *appear* to be interfering by voicing her own opinions while performing her duties within the Commonwealth. It would embarrass the Prime Minister to be so contradicted by the Queen, an apparent indirect attack, while being perfectly acceptable within the letter of the rules.
as a south african this is so awkward for me
It's not an accurate representation of Thatcher's beliefs regarding sanctions.
Now SA is incredibly violent and dangerous and the infrastructure is completely failing and has not been maintained.
1:22 a million dollars worth of truth...
Of course you think so, you are a proud rcst.
I come from Spain.
My absolut respect and admiration for the memory to that wonderful woman as M.Thatcher was.
What a bit of good luck, for any country, having a leader like her.
Poor Britain, and poor Europe nowadays 😢!!
No likes lol
Gillian was fantastic!
1:03 but that is exactly what you are doing, right NOW! She just happens to be more benevolent than the ones you are referring to!
She overacted a little. Her voice was overdone.
I’m part of the commonwealth, but the commonwealth is a bloody joke nowadays
and they try to tell you that the Monarchy has no influence nor impact on the govs decision making
Anderson`s Thatcher seems sick somehow ... if you look at videos of thatcher she is actually quite youthful often
Interesting fictional conversation and contrast that never happened.
Maybe not now but in time comparisons will definitely be made between Gillian Anderson and Meryl Streep as to who played the role of Margaret Thatcher better.
Gillian Anderson is the paroxysm of sexy. Tatcher was the opposite of sexy. It is like the whole universe crumble.
It's Thatcher.
@@paulsara9694 who cares ?
The cognitive dissonance is overwhemling
@@brianmiller1077 am I sexually aroused by this ? Or not ?
Ooh this looks good! Actually. What's this on? I'm about to watch
If you're prepared to fork out the monthly fees, it's a Netflix series. Definitely recommended viewing
This ain’t how this conversation went down.
No f*#king way.
The woman who sold British industry for a fraction of the cost and also publicly accused Nelson Mandela of being a terrorist has different motives ?
@@peterkirk123 One of the best PM’s Britain ever had, she was never rejected by the majority of the British electorate.
She only lost power due to the weasels in her party.
You're a joker
@@Willtextyou clearly live in the South of England, she absolutely destroyed the economy in Scotland and Northern England, she’s rotting in hell now
@@Willtext doesn't matter she was still an old school racist, and to call a man who wanted freedom and and life for his people to call him a terrorist but yet it was the SA Police murdering(which she supported) folks like Steven Beko, and you side with her..dude kick fking rocks
movie name ??
The crown (tv series)
I looked the statement of king Charles on Palestine, do you feel something equivalent is going on?
The Queen loves the Commonwealth...as an Empire ?
South African apartheid was a terrible unforgivable evil, but the country as it was subsequently governed by the ANC is a now complete mess.
Of course it's a mess. It was designed for only 10% of the population. Expanding that for rest of 90% is not going to be any easy transition. Let's not forget the coffers we're completely empty when the new government took over and that 10% still hold all the economic power. So yes, it's still very much an unequal society. But never ever compare the troubles we have now to apartheid. The fact that I am responding to this message in the early hours of the morning as a black person from a village would have been impossible for a black person. First of all, I wouldn't even be able to read and write in English. Please expand your reading to more than just newspapers and news reports.
Your point is? The country was always a mess for the 90% of the black population. Yes, the country is now having to open its coffers to that 90%, and doesnt solely exist for the benefit of the minority - the transition is going to be hard and a long one. The same is true of Rhodesia. It's certainly not as much of a mess for the vast majority, maybe crime went up in the cities, millions of people were finally allowed to move in. That happens which a rich minority get removed, and rightfully so.
"But" is never a good thing to follow up with after "yes this totally 100% evil thing was evil".
It has never been ‘on top’ it’s only now since the dawn of democracy SA has been able to pull its mighty self, and you can carry on hating and having nostalgia, those days will never come back😂lol
Same as all the "veterans" of the Zimbabwean/Rhodesian bush war
@@ElethuDuna what are u talking about lol, just look at our government, not many white faces compared to the 90% black faces lol stop playing victim and not speaking the truth the reason our country is in the bins is because of the ANCs corruption and greed which has destroyed this country and its own people. Thula
1:04 "It is not the business of a British Prime Minister to consult with unelected dictators," Margaret Thatcher said while *_consulting with the Queen._*
K?
Except the Queen is not a dictator. She is a constitutional monarch
The monarch's power is very limited by the Constitution, and today the royal family are pretty much just figureheads anyways, they don't have any real power
Thatcher roasted the Queen about losing her empire! 😂
And she got quite a roasting in return.
@@htimsid 😂
To rcsts yes, to normal people not.
She had supported apartheid and government for over 40yrs at this point, millions of dead black South Africans(my grandpa included) later she saw the light what a great queen,
Easy for the queen to not be concerned about the 3Billion in trade of the jobs lost. Not so easy for Thatcher, who had to face those disgruntled workers at the poll.
While I side with the Queen, you raise a very valid point!
Exactly. Social Justice Warriors don’t understand that.
LOL like Maggie ever worried about the workers! Are you serious? She laid off (not personally but with her policies) more people than ever before!
@subcomandantetroncos6914 at least she had to deal with the political consequences of her decision... and she was voted back in.
@@d4rrylexmachina I am a 100% republican (not in the american sense of the term) don't get me wrong. Well my friend the people in the UK have a tendency to vote erratically against their own interest, what can I say...
Now look at South Africa and Britain today and see where this mentality brought them both lol
I didn’t come up rich like the queen, but I by far agree with her.
This isn’t the queen, this is Olivia Coleman playing her in the crown, this episode is contested by historians as Queen Elizabeth was “apolitical”, a man who worked for her was anti-thatcher which inspired this episode
@@ghrasta. well I am anti-thatcher so it’s no problem for me to say I agree
@@realspen5082 You are likely just an ideological idiot.
Ordinary British people`s opinion is irrelevant ?
there were a lot of brilliant performances in this show but gillian anderson was truly one of the standouts. she seriously looks and sounds more like margaret thatcher than margaret thatcher did!
As a South African this makes me feel some negative feelings... So many reasons but there's no point getting into that. But it's good the series showed the ugly truths of the past.
But at least you got your happy ending, got rid of evil apartheid and your country prospered.
You achieved so much. Improved quality of life for the citizens. Built solid energy infrastructure.
Developed economically into a major world power, respected on the international stage.
Got rid of corruption and made sure to reduce the wealth inequality of the evil apartheid.
It's such a success story.
Minority rule will never work anywhere on earth, get over it @@MyPrideFlag
"I won't keep you long" so the subject of South Africa didn't get in the way of tea? perhaps?
Didn’t knew Thatcher was this based.
She always has been.
this scene is basically image washing for the royalty. It's sad how an historical tv show becomes a completely inaccurate PR stunt.
I remember when Thatcher died and the song Ding Dong The Witch is Dead entered the UK top 100. Great day in history
Just shows how loving the loony left is.
@@leonhughes134 More like great day in comedy 😘
@@leonhughes134Or it's just shows how people hate right wingers.
After 40+ years i can clearly say today there is no place for racism. South Africa under Botha suffered like hell. British did support racism those days and preaching the world today
Thatcher supported apartheid, her husband certainly was a supporter.
Well she was a CON-self-servative goes with the territory lol
Good
@@iainclark5964 yup, thatcher didn't regard irish as white either
the ANC was communist anarchists, apartheid was the lesser evil during a very contested Cold War 80s.. . . South Africa alone kept US supplied with platinum and chrome, so either buy from them or the Commies
@@willc1294proof?
Gillian did a great job!!! ❤
Good acting. Thatcher was right in general. The queen cared too much about the commonwealth and not enough about regular British people. Especially the many who wouldve lost their livelihoods. All that merely to do a stern finger wagging. The real world is tough and doing whats in your peoples best interests isnt always going to make you feel like a savior at the end of the day. This was a hard choice and the queen shouldve put her sympathies with the people of her country. Britain was and remains poor to this day so the loss of such a massive amount of money in 80s pounds no less wouldve been a monstrous blow to the economy.
Its easy to morally grandstand when youve lived a very privileged life and will never have to worry about paying the bills. Im sure if it didnt have such a high cost thatcher wouldve done it.
I can sympathize with that view, but it should also be noted that the amount of the effect on GDP would vary greatly depending on when that speech was being made. The GDP in 1980 Q1 was 55,807 (million pounds), but by the end of the decade it was 136,386 (also not adjusted for inflation) during this period they could surely have found time to replace/transition 3 billion in trade.
As a principle, I don't think we should be doing business with people that substantially differ in values (for example, violate human rights on a vast scale). Preferably to not start, but obviously not just stop cold turkey.
Two among the greatest actresses. For history, here the Queen was on the good side of history and it's a stain on Tatcher.
The queen was on the feel good side of history, not the right side. The ANC is literally communist.
So, how is South Africa doing these days?
Still under apartheid, but it's the blacks who get to throw their weight around this time. Expropriation of land without compensation, farm murders, and white south Africans are having to live in militarised compounds protected by volunteer community watches. I've met plenty of South Africans who do not like talking about home, the most I've learnt is from Lauren Southern's Farmlands documentary and accounts from a South African I worked with for a time.
I wouldn't want to be them, that's for sure.
Everyone is poor not just the non-whites.
South Africa is a founding member of BRICS along with Brazil, Russia, India and China. Members of the BRICS trade alliance now represents more than 45% of the globe.
Free.
@@garcalej they've gone from being a first world country to a third world country that literally cannot even keep the lights on. All the more ironic considering they have the largest vein of gold under their feet and diamond mines.
I'm surprised the let a cameraman record a private conversation between the Queen and the Prime Minister.
Thatcher was 100% correct.
Yep. Look at it today, an obviously foreseeable disaster.
It's amazing how she became friends with Nelson Mandela
the wig and dress for Olivia Colman are just awful. I don't recall the Queen ever wearing "brown."
Some people's priorities...
@@garyspence2128😂
"It is not the business of elected British prime ministers to consult with unelected dictators." Says the British prime minister to an hereditary monarch. Intended or unintended dig?
Gillian Anderson is amazing in this.
I dont get it, thatcher could've used the opportunity as a favour on the basis that thatcher could call in a favour when she feels it fit.
Thatcher’s responsibility was *solely* to Britain as the voters directed.
She had the responsibility only to hear out the Queen, and the authority to act as the PM saw fit.
Seems like Thatcher was correct.
Let’s discuss the ending. What are your thoughts?
We can’t. TH-cam will censor comments willy-nilly if they don’t like what we say about Reagan or Thatcher, and all the evil they did in the world
Margaret… “make Britain great again… an evolved constitutional monarchy under William the conqueror” 😂😂😂
It's nothing else than Netflix writing
Apartheid's best friend, Maggie Thatcher
Woman speaks exactly like Thatcher
Her views were wrong from the get go. Thatcher feared that sanctions would have a harsher effect on the impoverished black majority. What she failed to understand was said majority was already living within those conditions. Every major Township was well established during Apartheid, by the regime actually...this is why the "look at South Africa now" narrative will never find solid footing with black people. The prosperous South Africa people speak of was only prosperous for a few. Things like electricity & water only came into villages and rural areas after 1994
I love the acting here. Can't stand the real Thatcher, given what she stood for, but Anderson really nailed the iron lady vibe here.
I wonder if Elizabeth would still have supported sanctions if she saw South Africa today...
Probably. The character. In the movie said “its up to them what desert they inherit” or some such drivel. Anyway she’s a neoliberal so ends justify the means… 1st to 3rd world in 20 years - who cares as long as whitey isnt in charge.
Probably. It's South Africa's country. Not Apartheid.
@@Lukecash2 yea and South Africa has done so well ever since lol
@@fuzydisabledman1 And where are you from.
@@bigdoug1558wow what an idiotic argument
Excellent acting
The Queen didn’t speak this way to her PMs. And thatcher certainly didn’t speak this way to the Queen. This whole conversation is a fiction, and wishful thinking on the part of the writers (like much of the series)
WOW, if this was the queen then she wasn't anywhere near as intelligent as the media made her to be.
Today South Africa is a failing nation that can’t fix their roads or even keep the electricity on. Pathetic
So you think that is an excuse for apartheid? The South took decades to recover after the Civil War and their economy still is not what it was during slavery- do you think that means abolishing slavery wasn't the right thing to do?
Make Britain great again.
“All collectivism is always conducive to oppression: it is only the victims who differ" ----Margaret Thatcher
"Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism" ----Ayn Rand
They made the Queen a sort of progressive speechmaker, which she definitely wasn't. I can't imagine her saying she's not superior to Ghana's prez. Besides, the most awkward thing is trying to paint the Commonwealth as something...so serious and equalitarian
FYI, the South African economy and society collapsed after apartheid was ended
Maybe the foundation was quite unsustainable?
@@carlosacta8726 they have the largest gold vein on the planet that still is not exhausted to this day, some of the most productive farmland inherited, and diamond mines, how are these unsustainable foundations?
It's just poor governance by a backward culture. If Korea (who in 1953 was as poor as a sub-Saharan African country) or Singapore (not even having sufficient water for its people) were able to go from poverty to having the highest standards of living on this planet, South Africa has no excuse for becoming a third world country that can't even keep the electricity running! (more embarrassing considering South Africa used to generate enough electricity that they were able to sell the excess to their neighbouring states)
Actually both thrived for a few years.
How does someone talk with their head tilted and twisted? And I'm expected to believe they're telling the truth.
(1) It seems innacurate for the script to say that the Queen's pledge was 40 years ago. Instead, she had only been monarch for about 32 years at this point. (2) Certainly the PM would have known that the monarchy pre-dated William the Conqueror.
I think she meant that all subsequent British monarchs can trace their lineage back to William the Conqueror
The pledge was made during her first overseas tour in 1947.
The Queen was referring to the pledge she made as Princess on her 21st birthday to serve the Commonwealth "for her whole life, whether it be long or short."
It didn't. Different monarchy
there is something called a dynasty you know. Only for Japan's has there been a single unbroken dynasty, although the date they give should be taken with a grain of salt due to no records and some bizarre claims of emperors apparently living for more than 100 years.
A progressivism I doubt the Queen was capable of expressing
Her Majesty didn't mention BTW that she made her pledge in Cape Town, so there is a direct connection to her pledge and to South Africa. South Africa was not part of the Commonwealth from 1961 (when they became a republic) until 1994, when Nelson Mandela brought them back in. Lest we forget that a good portion of South Africa's leadership supported the Nazis during WWII.
@anglobostonian south africa.. our forefathers 2 generations ago served and fought against Germany. WW2 Sent to Egypt n then to Italy. Some were captured by the Nazis troops n spent balance of time as prisoners of war. South West Africa was German.. now known as Namibia.
@@LydiaWhitting well aware of all that. And none of that would have had happened had pro Nazi PM Barry Hertzog not been forced out and replaced with Jan Smuts. The fact that the Union of South Africa declared war on Germany as soon as Smuts became PM again speaks for itself.
@anglobostonian there was a huge portion of Europe and many elsewhere .. to as far as australia that fought as allies against Hitlers regime. Not garnishing what u are saying.. that south africa shouldn't have joined them ?
@@LydiaWhitting of course South Africa should have joined them. As an American Anglophile, if I had my way my native USA would have joined the fight against Hitler in 1939. Not waited under Pearl Harbor to join the war. My point is that had Hertzog remained PM of South Africa, they would have at best remained "neutral", at worst supported the Nazis. Google the Ossewabrandwag if you know what I mean.
@@anglobostonian yes I thought I'd look up WW1 as well. Quoting.. just on South africa .. where they also contributed .. Said 11,000 SA born soldiers died between 1914 - 1918. One of my Brit grandafthers served for British. Everyone suffers is wars and post war. Wish you well.
Zambia🇿🇲 mentioned
So who ended up being right? How’s SA doing now?
How is British economy doing now?
Thatcher was right
@@avkk2314 A hell of a lot better than SA's.
@@petercollingwood522but we don't compare apples to oranges
@@writinghealth So try comparing economies to economies then.
Whether you agree or not with Margaret Thatcher, she had principles, high intellect and a strong work ethic. Margaret was prepared to fight for her beliefs even if they weren’t popular. The recent batch of Prime Ministers aren’t a patch on Margaret. I miss her. 😢
And Thatcher was more than prepared to destroy lives - literally.
Hate to say it now look at South Africa it's a Wasteland
It's not a wasteland but governance is poor. But then look at how things are in NZ, Australia, Canada, the USA, UK and Europe!
@johnjames6620 infrastructure collapsing thanks to corruption and mismanaged and often referred to as a failing state. Ziimbabwe completely ruined. Countries u mentioned are 1st world countries. Chalk n cheese comparison.. we are 3rd world.. going down.
@@LydiaWhitting I do not defend the way the country is governed, which has been abysmal to say the least. But things in many / most first-world countries are not much better in many respects. The USA cannot run fair elections, there was the Covid disaster, the USA has a porous Southern border, billions are being sent to Ukraine, the most popular party in France got the 3rd most seats in parliament, in the UK the Reform party got much more votes than the Liberal Dems (?) but only a fraction of the seats, first world countries like Australia can easily surveil their people which is not the case in SA, And we can go on!
@johnjames6620 overall the American dream is lost. Have relations/friends in Britain, who live a much better life than SAfrica. They can walk on the local canals safely. For years my son in australia with his family. Daughter in laws family all to new zealand. My daughter n partner have remained in isle of Mann. For the reasons they left.. none of them will ever want to come back ever.. takes too long to fix a damaged country. I have to live out my life without them.
Yes, management of covid was dismal here as well. People still burnt from the draconian lock down. Some only found work now post it all. But hey Cyril did apologize. Lol
@@LydiaWhitting Many of the countries you mentioned are becoming more and more draconian. The USA and UK locked up Assange. They using lawfare in the USA to target Trump and others. In many cases the media is complicit in the wrong-doing. Covid was handled badly here, including by the DA and MSM. This just goes to show that relying on the sincerity of places like the USA is ill-placed. I and my son never got "vaccinated" against Covid.
I love how they try to romanticize the Queen as standing for the poor black South Africans. 🤣😂
She wasn't. She was clearly considering the world's opinion of Britain, and by extension herself, if Thatcher did not sign on to the agreement.
Thatcher was wrong on this. The Queen was under informed but ultimately you should not make allies of racists.
Ultimately we all in life hope to build something better no?
Racism is evil. The queen was right. And old cow Thatcher was wrong. Money. That's all old cow Thatcher was concerned about.
"Racists" - the black regimes denouncing South Africa were nearly all vicious dictatorships of one black ethnic group oppressing other black ethnic groups. Shamelessly. Whites were too easily guilted and manipulated. The South African government gave each black ethnic group its own country and independence, but the rest of the world refused to recognized those states because they were so determined to force the whites to be under black rule.
I'm really happy that this work May Thatcher look as bad as she was.