Why doesn't God just show Himself? (
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ม.ค. 2024
- If there is a God, and God can do anything, then why doesn't He just show Himself, then it would be a whole lot easier to believe... We all might ask this at some point in our lives whether we believe in God or not, so the question is: what would be the best way for God to reveal Himself? ... well, how would you do it?
Why doesn't God just show Himself
• Why doesn't God just s...
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The best statement I ever heard about god was "It's funny that people only speak to god inside their own heads, it's as if that's the only place he exists".
good point
If you talk to God, you're religious. If God talks back, you're a lunatic
And their god in their head *never* disagrees with them. Ever.
Funny that.
@@sniperwolf50 I could be just carrying on both sides of the conversation... 😛🤪🥴
There are people who claim that God literally spoke to them out loud.
Unfortunately no one else was there to confirm it.
The great part about an omnipotent god is, it would be able to solve all these issues without issue.
even our limited minds could solve this issues, he just completely ignores the logical answers because he wants to defend the illogical
Who are you to demand a god what to do?!! now keep quiet while i use an excuse not acceptable even for a human.
What? You think it's reasonable to expect an omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent being to appear to everyone, and not only know what will convince them, _but also be able to do it!?_
I love how in his vain atempt to make his religion look like the most sensible explanation, he had to make all the reasonable methods look sad and dumb first.
A omnipotent god wouldn't have any issue, ever. The mere existence of issues proves there isn't such a god. Limited, evil or stupid gods are still possible, tho.
The door to door salesman approach seems perfectly fine to me, especially for an omnipotent and timeless being.
Or even the "look at the trees" approach. It's the conflict between "he can't be bothered to reveal himself" and "he really wants a close relationship". As a comedian put it "love without reciprocation is stalking".
If door to door salespeople only sold things people really, desperately needed, and the salesperson was the only source for that thing, they would probably be widely beloved.
God has the power to appear to each of us individually as our own invisible friend capable of conversing with us about things we don't know. It would be abjectly trivial for him to do so in a way that left us, as the Christians love to say, 'without excuse'. Even if it was just one time in everyone's lives where he showed himself, declared himself, unambiguously it would be better than the current deafening silence.
Worse still that, according to many Christians, he does just that... But apparently not universally, it seems.
Also, he bemoans that as door to door salesmanship, but apparently his solution is a pyramid scheme instead.
@@antonioscendrategattico2302 Maybe he likes the JWs.
Apologist: "You can't *force* a relationship."
God: "Love me or it's Eternal Torture."
Arranged marriages?
Said someone one His behalf. Then paraphrased by someone else and used as evidence against Him.
@@iwanttocomplain "Him"? You mean Yaldabaoth? Saklas? Samael? The evil demiurge who created the Universe?
It's not clear if existence is evil or not or whether the word evil has any concrete definition, For the motivation or catalyst for creation to be known or understood is quite the claim by any party.@@thhseeking
Hell is not eternal for those who won't choose God.
I always enjoy it when apologists paint god as a victim of his own rules/design. It has a real "leave dad alone, he just got home from work and he's tired" vibe.
So the song "What if god , was one of us?" is the most accurate thing that we have to truth? XD
LOL - Not sure why you have to kick working dads in the balls. I assume you are not one. You know, god can be a contradiction and a myth and real dads can be good dudes who need a little space for a minute after work. They aren't mutually exclusive.
@jeremysmetana8583 Nobody is taking shots at working dads my dude. Relax.
@@jeremysmetana8583That's not what they did.
God is supposed to be all powerful, all perfect, all capable. Not a being that can get tired and needs a break from time to time.
@@jeremysmetana8583Yeah, you can kick god in the balls, but not dad, that's too far! This guy gets compared to God and he's still offended. Long day at work?.. ugh, this is why being a mom really is the hardest job in the world.
If God showing himself is too much to handle for a person, how do all those Christians handle it who claim he's showing himself to them?
classic double-think
christians: god couldn’t make himself too obvious you couldn’t handle it 😏
also christians: god is so obvious look at the trees! 🤩
They'll quickly pivot to 'But he did, in the person of Jesus Christ!' as soon as it suits them.
Then why didn't Jews "see God" in the person of Jesus considering Jesus was a Jew his entire life and would know just what it would take to convince them that he is the "real deal"? @@ianchisholm5756
@chaleechan7805 I can assure you nobody sees 'the spirit of happiness'
@chaleechan7805 'See' is what you do with your eyes. You either can see them or you don't. Don't play semantics with me.
Not existing is a hard problem to overcome.
I was thinking the same thing. Odd, isn't it that the James Webb space telescope can see distant galaxies, star clusters, etc, but no "god". Can't find it if it's not there.
Point 3... so revealing himself to each person individually is ridiculous, but he wants to have a personal relationship with each of us. I don't feel these are compatible.
Excellent, excellent point.
Another thing to consider is that those folks who claim a personal relationship "with god" seem to have nothing more that an imaginary friend who can stand listening to them and is selectively responsible for "the good things" that happen to them, and (because some grifter told them) is simply challenging them with "the bad things", like their children having cancer.
And, he equates merely introducing yourself to someone with "forcing" them to love you and "altering their mind and free will". Somebody needs to check this guy's basement.
@@joeyangtree1862 🤣
And so then why has God chosen not to reveal Himself to everyone? You only have to look to the Word of God, The Holy Bible to find your answer. "But your wickedness has separated you from your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear." (Isaiah 59:2) It is the sinner who repents, and turns from and abhors their sins and then totally trusts The Lord Jesus to save and rescue them from their sin. Then and only then will Jesus come and abide with them by the Spirit of God.
@christophergibson7155 I'm not sure that I understand you. If he has not revealed himself to everyone, how do they know to repent? Who do they speak to when they do not know who that is? With no evidence, why believe that you should be following any particular faith? But this is beside the point. The criticism is that this person is saying that it is to much for God to reveal himself to everyone, yet almost every Christian I am aware of would argue that God also wants a personal relationship with every one, and that he listens to and respond to every prayer. If he is interested in everyone, and has time for every prayer, why does he not have time to reveal himself to everyone. And if we are quoting scripture: Romans 5:6-8 (LEB): For while we were still helpless, yet at the proper time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For only rarely will someone die on behalf of a righteous person (for on behalf of a good person possibly someone might even dare to die), 8 but God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while* we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
"God can't just do the normal sane thing, he has to play evil sadistic mind games, or else he wouldn't be the good guy!" is not the sales pitch cultists inexplicably believe it is.
And yet, here we are.
God must lie, so we can know he is the truth and his adversary who always tells the truth is the lord of lies.
God must tell us how to obtain, own and mistreat slaves so that we know he hates slavery.
God must commit and command us to commit genocide so that we know he hates genocide.
God must make himself undetectable so that we know for sure that he exists.
And of course that must mean that when Jesus said “give away all your wealth”, he really meant “amass as much wealth as you can”, and that is why Prosperity is the path to heaven.
@@aaronbredon2948 Clearest description I've ever seen of how Christianity twists and reverses almost every word in the dictionary to get its loving message across. Sure he loves us, if you define love as "feeling disdain for". Sure he's truthful, if you describe truthful as "regularly lies". Sure he's moral, if you describe moral as "the things a god does or says to do". Every definition is thrown through a blender and force-fed until you believe he's loving, moral, and truthful and stop asking questions about how he can be all of those things while rarely if ever acting like it.
@@riluna3695 and if you combine Luke 14:26:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
With Matthew 22:39:
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Given that a Good Christian hates their own life and loves their neighbor as themselves, we know why there is no Hate like Christian Love.
And Luke 14:26 alone does quite a good job of explaining murder/suicides.
@@aaronbredon2948I think the worst thing is people have tried to tell me that the hate your family wnd life is MEANT to say that God is more important than everything else. Which becomes more fucked because it doesnt say that, but even if it did, it reveals the parasitic language of the “holy father” supplanting himself as the most important family member over your own spouse and possible children.
We’ll surely a transcendent being has to make sense to my monkey brain!
I love how he uses a shotgun wedding as an example of forcing “love” when their god threatens hell for nonbelievers
Perfect. Paulogia mentions that the topic was about intellectual assent, not love. Then you point out how the supposed god is indeed threatening us with hell if we don't love it.
And they wonder why we aren't convinced with their arguments.
On the flip side, I can understand why they would be inclined to repeat that their god is good despite all the examples to the contrary. If they believe it exists, I could understand wanting to delude yourself into thinking it is good so you go into heaven. This god is extremely diabolical if it exists.
It's also worth mentioning that a very large portion of Christians get married young because they feel pressured, or "forced" by their beliefs and the expectations of their community to start pumping out offspring a.s.a.p. and a very large portion of those end in divorce.
Yep, if knowing god exists removes my choice on if i want or not a relationship with him, then literally all consensual sex is actually unconsensual, and SOME unconsensual sex is actually the closest thing to consensual, after all you can only make a choice if you don't know the person you'll have sex with exists... It flips consent on its head! It's only a choice if it's a guess you don't know you're making and if you actually know what you're chosing then it's not a choice?
Shouldn't the USA as a god fearing country make sure if you know the candidates you're voting for, then your vote doesn't count as you didn't have free will to vote there?
@@Boundless_Border "This god is extremely diabolical if it exists." Indeed, and why would one ever want to be trapped for eternity with this despicable monster?
@@gladiatrx3
I'd have to admit that if you could genuinely believe that it wasn't a despicable being. I can understand wanting that over eternal conscious "punishment."
I may even wish to stifle someone else's intellectual capabilities if I thought this being existed and those were the only options. I wouldn't wish the fate of hell on anyone. And while heaven is with something I would consider to be a "horrific monster" as long as they were safe and happy I could make my peace with it.
"God is beyond man in every single way. Now, let me tell you its motives."
"That would be a much too vulgar display of power."
Projecting vague images in cloud formations and on toast is more his speed.
Or on dog butts.
Not to mention “vulgarity” is 100% cultural. Short-shorts are vulgar to some groups. Looking someone in the eye is vulgar to others. Eating with your hands is vulgar to others still. The omnipotent God should be perfectly capable of revealing himself to everyone in a way that no one would perceive as vulgar, assuming he would even care about such a fickle temporal thing as that.
You Tubers have him beat. 😁
Line from "the exorcist"
LMAO
He said cosmic signs would work "for a little while" which means he's admitting that god could just keep repeating those signs and the problem would be solved.
His counter was even dumber than that. He basically said we would get bored of the cosmic signs and presented that like it was a problem.
@Destorath666 Yeah, like who cares if they're boring? I would rather get boring signs than go to hell.
I wonder how many people believe this stuff for the excitement factor. Like, do they want miracles to be rare because then they can oggle them? Very selfish behavior if so.
Yeah but, He's omnipotent, So that means it's just too much trouble to bother with, Off you go to eternal torture.
@@WaterCat5 Great point. I think there's compartmentalization going on, and barriers go up when Christians think they see miracles, so that they don't have to think about all the suffering in the world that needs a miracle far more than they do for their entertainment.
@@WaterCat5If God's is so present and obvious to become mundane, that seems like a complete win as far as salvation goes... You might have a small contingency of people (like flat-earthers) refusing to believe, but essentially everyone would believe in God (and God absolutely could figure out a way to avoid that too). Heck, the signs could be set up in a way to remove all ambiguity so nobody would believe in God the wrong way either like we have with the many religions today.
Not only does God always use a liaison , his liaison always needs money. 😂😂
You know, those angels could be doing more than playing a harp....some sound investment advice from my guardian angel would make me a believer !!
If God created all things then why would anyone need to hand GOD any money?
The money is to help the preacher reach more people, to pay money to reach more people to pay money...
@@b4ph0m3tdk9 The money is to help him reach more people than GOD that is everywhere? WOW
You know how GOD will provide but never seems to provide money.
@@b4ph0m3tdk9 Speaking in tongues, do I hear ya say "Ponzi, Ponzi Ponz-shebabba !!"
I can't help but notice they keep harping on about how god doesn't want to force a relationship with us, but the punishment for not having a relationship with him is ETERNAL HELLFIRE. How exactly is that supposed to be freedom??
Jesus paid the price for your eternal freedom, will you accept his invitation or reject him?
it definitely isn't. they say it's all about free will and freedom to choose to have or not have a relationship with god and worship him. but when the consequence of choosing to not believe, etc. is eternal punishment, then that pretty much negates any of that freedom talk if one is concerned about eternal punishment. it's so manipulative and underhanded.
@@kadenoneill7227 well there is no freedom in hell, so you better avoid that
@@samuelcalderwood1379your hell threats are so childish lol. I promise you no one is taking you seriously.
Hell is not a threat; it's a warning for people who choose to distance themselves from God. Life without God is hell. If we choose to disobey, reject, or rebel against God, things will become more evil here on Earth. Having a relationship with God is about knowing His will and following His words because He knows what is best for us. Eternal life is not something we can achieve on our own because we all fall short of the glory of God due to sin. We follow God not to work for our own salvation, but to acknowledge His work on the cross for us when Jesus was crucified.
Saying that we’re not ready for God to reveal himself seems an odd thing to say when there are numerous examples in the Bible of God unambigiously revealing himself.
Paul's point exactly.
God will return in the second coming, so be ready to present yourself without shame before he comes.
@@synergy1916 Nah, I’m good.
@@synergy1916 Why do we even have to wait? Why not right now?
@@basic6735 because he knows the best timing. Also, the Bible didn't tell exactly when is the second coming. Jesus just gave signs of his return.
One thing that bothers me about a lot of apologetics is the double standard of saying “our human brains can’t possible understand the methods and capabilities of an all-powerful God” and then in a different argument say “can you[r human brain] think of a way to logically do X in the context of your own abilities? No? Then God can’t either.” God’s power seems to vary depending on what the Christian is arguing for.
God seems to also be limited by the human brain who believes, which is a bit suspicious....
Exactly
Not to mention that they turn around and explain exactly what God wants.
There is also a problem with arguing that "our brains cant understand/comprehend god" when speaking to someone skeptical, all the while proposing that they themselves seem to have the perfect and true understanding of the same god. And a personal relationship nonetheless. So no one else can understand this deity except for you? Seems convenient
@@bryand7667 That's because they've created God in their heads.
I really like Prophet of Zod’s analogy of the Rock God. Why does this Rock God look and act like an ordinary rock? “Its ways are higher, it has reasons we can’t possibly understand.” Okay, but you just made another claim on top of the one that I already don’t accept.
Hey buddy! Have you met my pet Spot. He doesn't say much. He's a rock 🪨🎸😎
Thank you for including the "for those just listening along" because that's exactly what I do!
I love it when video hosts include us listeners. I hate having to scramble for my phone or quickly switch tabs and rewind to get context
Every. Single. Response. to this question is vapid and contrived. They have to try SO hard to make it make sense. As a life long nonbeliever, understanding how people get to these places is something I struggle with.
indoctrination and a herd mentality not questioning what is being claimed
There's this girl I want to marry. But I want her to marry me freely and worry that introducing myself will influence her decision. So I'm just going to leave subtle hints of my existence where I assume she will find them and hope for the best!
Don't forget the smiting 😅
@@AllHailDiskordiaOh yeah, I will definitely smite if she doesn't eventually come around...
Make sure to leave contradictory and confusing hints so that those who discover them will reach different conclusions about who you are and what you want
@@kevinmiller1121 Good point. She'll need to work for it.
TV romances in total. 😃
As Christians are wont to do, Imbeggar seems to constantly forget what omnipotent means.
Oh, I know what that word means in Cultspeak! Omnipotent: (v) To slavishly follow a contrived plot where the character makes all the wrong decisions, because if they ever made the correct decision _ever_ then there would be no actual story.
Example: "Oh no! A killer is trying to break into my house through the front door! I had better run upstairs where there are no other exits and hide in the most obvious place instead of heading to the back door where I can flee in literally any direction!"
See also: _Dramatic Slip_ and _Fail Compilation_
Apparently it means being really, Really lazy.
we need to come up with a different word for the christian god’s power level. it’s not all powerful. it’s not even maximally powerful. it’s conveniently powerful. convenipotent?
No, not constantly. Only when it is convenient for their lies.
@@TaeyxBlack I like that.
Wild that he lists off ACTUAL good ways for God to reveal himself and just dismisses them, then lists the worst way and somehow expects us to think it sounds better than the much more straightforward and compelling previous ones???
If God wants us to choose Him of our "free will", then why threaten us with eternal torture in the afterlife if we don't? That's not free will; that's duress.
Ditto
If I am to be an all-powerful god, I would click my fingers and my creations will automatically know I am real and I do exist.
Indeed.
Arthur C Clarke's third law still applies: " _Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic_ " Maybe the finger-snap is just the outward sign of a super-advanced technology. Think how our own ancestors of only 400 years ago would react if they saw us tap a small device in our hands a few times and speak to someone on the other side of the world.
@@condorboss3339
This fails to notice the point. The snap imbued the creatures with the knowledge that "I" existed.
It isn't about proving the supernatural existed.
P.S. The snapping is a bit of a colloquial representation of ease. They don't really need to do that.
@@Boundless_Border A letter delivered by owl would work, but I would prefer God sending me a pizza with pineapple. Now THAT is proof of the Divine!
I asked a christian friend why god didn't do this and he said free will. I asked him if he thought that if everyone on the planet knew 100% that god was real would there still be sinners? Would there still be people using their free will to go against god? And he said he thought there would... so why is god hidden? Lol
The weird thing to me is that the basic question shouldn't be why doesn't he show himself, or why did he show himself to some people. If God wants to not interfere, he should have never showed himself. If he wants to interfere, he could just show himself to everyone all the time and make himself really obvious. No, the question is why the half-assed, middle-of-the-road approach? It's like the supreme being can't make a decision either way and instead he does this weak lame ambiguous intrusion into his own experiment. What's the point of that?
It's almost as If that god is imaginary 😂
Also, if the god wants you to *freely* choose to love him, then he should never create a hell or a heaven. At the very least, he should never tell any human that he has created these. All Christianity has done is imagine the greatest bribe to love a god and the ultimate blackmail for anyone that doesn't.
Their god is weak af, that’s if he’s real
Do they not realize that the "he did show himself" response completely defeats the purpose of half of their pathetic apologetics about this? If he did it once, why can't he do it again? As many times as it would take to get people to NOT burn in hell forever? It's ridiculous.
100%. So many problems with 'but he DID appear!" Makes no sense that this God would make the ultimate sacrifice to secure that personal relationship, priority number 1 after all...and then just disappear.
If have to accept Christian claims of supernatural appearance - without proof - then we are forced to also accept comparable claims from other faiths.
These are the two biggest hurdles I see.
No one can see God, except all the people who have. Why can't we see Him? Apparently, His greatness would just melt our eyeballs, He may be all powerful, but He doesn't have a dimmer switch.
His followers do, and some have their lights dimmed right down very, very low :P
God is a light switch 💡
This by far the best point against God's existence.
The best point about the existence of something is that it manifests itself in reality. My phone calls are proof that there are electromagnetic waves and the offer of an extended warranty with those calls shows someone cares about me and my car. Some jackass talking about jesus is proof people have an imagination.
I find it very telling that I have mountains more evidence that Pauly Shore starred in "Biodome" in 1996 than I do that Jesus ever existed.
"One of the best reasons not to believe is to understand why people do believe."
As I am getting further into the video I am struck by something. Often God is spoken of as a parent. Can you imagine hearing a parent talk like that? What would happen to a child if their parents didn't want to reveal themselves to their kids because they were worried about taking away their freedom? How about hearing a parent being troubled by having to interact with their kids on a daily basis?
Also, consider this. Wouldn't any parent, at some point, want their children to grow up? Now what sort of being would want to keep another set of beings in an artificially induced juvenile state? Oh wait, that would be us. It's exactly how we domesticated dogs.
and you created a hell to punish an evil beoing but made it in a way innocents can fall in?
@@MichaelPowers1960 Dogs aren't in an artificially induced juvenile state though?
What do we say about a parent who intentionally inflicts his children with horrific, sometimes even wholly novel, diseases? Or one who actively refuses to prevent his children from enslaving, raping, and murdering each other? How about a parent who refuses to do literally anything for his children but expect lifelong gratitude that he caused them to exist in a state of misery and suffering?
We call that a monster. So why hold the Christian God, ANY deity, to a lower standard than we do humanity? Especially when that deity is claimed to be the source of all good?
Great point. I've said this myself. The whole idea of divine hiddenness is easily one of the most ridiculous ideas ever. Our loved ones, say our parents, don't hide themselves from us out of some weird desire to give us a free will. They are ever present in our lives because they love us. If they arent, we usually assume they dont love us.
Oh FFS! If god wants a relationship with me, then it can bloody well show up. Otherwise I'm just pretending to have an invisible friend.
Only evangelicals would describe your wife knowing you exist as "altering their mind and free will"
Oh evangelicals love the whole "love and obey me without question or complaint OR ELSE I'LL HURT YOU AND IT'LL BE YOUR FAULT!" schtick. They're just emulating their deity.
taking responsibility for their own actions is too much to ask of them
“You aren’t convinced by hearsay, plagiarized stories, and ideas invented by the early Church? Well, how about some poor excuses? Will that suffice?”
Gee, open a tax free megachurch, fake sincere interpretations of an ancient book, PROPHIT !!
That's how religion works.
Well I am convinced by all of those things, but then again; I probably left my brains in the parking lot.
Would a note from his mother convince him? 🤔
Considering how well all of the “hearsay” lines up with each-other, then I would be convinced that they all knew the same person.
That's not how the case goes, bud.
This is a subset of a broader unified problem with an omnipotent deity - any problem that exists only exists because said deity caused it or permitted it in the first place.
When Christian missionaries first went to China, they were given an audience with the emperor. After explaining their ideas, the emperor asked them why didn’t Jesus just appear in China first. He said that Jesus would have been able to obtain millions of followers quickly, in a far more literate society, and his ideas would have been able to spread more quickly. The missionaries never gave an answer that was satisfactory.
Do you have a source for this? Sounds like an interesting story, I’d love to learn more!
@@balteshazar22 I saw it in a Chinese source. I shall try to find it again. It might be apocryphal, but is typically Chinese in thought. The emperor could have met Jesus, decreed his ideas as valid, and allowed him to spread the word, with thousands of court scribes to translate his teachings to the nation. Governors could have been told to welcome missionaries and encourage participation. At that time Chinese merchants travelled as far as Africa, and could have spread the word. That’s how Indonesia became Muslim. And nobody would have been nailed to anything.
The emperors did allow Christianity during some periods and not in others; but whenever it was banned it was for being foreign, and too rich. And it was not the only one.
It was most likely Emperor Taizong since that is the earliest known meeting. It sounds like something he would have said. He did allow Christianity and had sacred texts transcribed. And he proscribed tolerance of many religions. Just as a note, Jesus always looked Asian in pictures from this period.
@@andrewfrennier3494 Because rather than spread the message in a way that would be efficient, and not involve bloodshed, god opted for a method that wasn't efficient, and involved bloodshed. I mean hell, look what happened with the pharaoh, that did not need happen. God cant make a point without a war crime.
Never gave a satisfactory answer. Hunh. Weird.
Soo “infusing himself into our brains” is bad, but “writing his law on our hearts” is good. Got it.
He'll write his law in your heart if you allow him.
@@polymars_ That’s not biblical.
@@jakerz0 proof?
@@polymars_Show me where the bible states that god’s law being written on our hearts is conditional on our consent, as opposed to a covenantal promise offered by god.
15:50 "What if there is a chance ..." is a message I hear from the lottery folks.
It's like they want to quietly draw upon Pascal's Wager without declaring it outright because to do so would also invite all of the obvious classic Pascal criticisms. What if there's a chance it was Zeus all along? What if there's a chance that the for-reals god prefers Islam? What if...etc etc etc
Eternal torture should not be hinged upon accepting whacky what-if scenarios with no adequate evidence.
"Pascal's Wager" is a non-starter.
8:00 Okay, now I get it. It's my fault that I was born 2000 or so years late and I didn't get the message.
This
5:34 - "It would be too...uh...door-to-door salesman for god to knock on your door and introduce godself. But it's OK if we do it, to try to hand you a tract."
But they have different messages. JWs, Mormons...
Jehova's Witness: "Would you like some reading material?" Me: "No". JW: Nervous laugh
@@thhseekingwell, not all that different
When I want a relationship with someone, I take steps to ensure that the other person knows I exist. I don't, for example, leave hints in a book written a couple of thousand years ago, and then refuse to engage with them at all. God seems to be taking a really weird approach.
lol, and before my wife and I got married, I did go to the effort of, you know, introducing myself to her.
The all powerful god is just too lazy to do the bare minimum to save me from the eternal torture dungeon , he created.
To be fair, he also seems to be too lazy to do literally anything.
Yet they claim he's going to spend the time to judge me personally. He failed to create a functional world for Adam and for Noah and for Moses. I'm not betting on this heaven being functional either.
@@goldenalt3166 Apparently it's not since 30% of the kids peaced out. If he's this bad with his supposed "preferred" creations, imagine how abusive he is to the angels. To them, it's probably like fleeing the most abusive father ever.
@suicune2001 That would explain why heaven had those tall gates and a guard. Hell's locked from the inside but heaven is clearly locked from the outside.
@@goldenalt3166 Yeah, we had it backwards this whole time. The guard is on the INSIDE making sure no one leaves. 😂
It is sad that Life of Brian is so timelessly accurate
A vastly misunderstood masterpiece. Their best work IMHO.
The more he talked, the worse he made his God look
"Why'd you pick such a backward time, and such a strange land?"🌟
God hides because atheists are always picking on him. It’s a defense mechanism to protect his feelings.
Just remember that god is an atemporal being. When you hurt its feelings, they stay hurt forever. Or never?
Point is that being atemporal is hard, you insensitive monsters
so gods "feelings" are more important than ppl roasting in hell for all effing eternity?
@@NightmareRex6 Apparently, to that god, they are.
LOL
You guys are cracking me up, nice.
This is one of the best answers if not the best I've heard about this problem about apologist... Thank you Paulogia...
It's just so cool and amazing the way this guy thinks about how a God would reveal himself to his creation and figures out that it is exactly the way Christian tradition says YHWH did it. And he does it all while avoiding any bias from his existing beliefs.
It's just like how Jesus "fulfilled" all those Jesus- like attributes like no other religious figure in history. Amazing.
@@goldenalt3166 no other Jesus is as Jesus as Jesus
I'm willing to accept the Jesus story as is, with one additional requirement. If Jesus were still on the cross, still alive, and still suffering after 2000 years, then I would be willing to accept that he was "paying the price for the sins of humanity" and supernaturally sustained. It would also make Christians much more cognizant that this guy really, really suffered more than any human being ever had. I'm sure that one broadcast channel would just show Jesus on the cross 24/7 to always remind everyone how much constant pain he was in.
@@joeyangtree1862😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
... how a god would reveal itself ...
The argument is a textbook case in complicated confirmation bias. He started with the conclusion: God is real, and coming down in human form as Jesus was the best way for him to reveal himself. Then he listed a few alternatives and came up with whatever excuses he could to dismiss them, and then he came up with ways to reject the obvious and clear problems with the Jesus plan. It's almost as if getting to the "right" answer was more important than any actual points or logic.
No question it comes across as a giant post hoc rationalization. When I was a kid in Sunday school pushing back against resurrection theology, I used to say, "I would be way more impressed if the Romans tried to kill Jesus and and couldn't." At least he would have differentiated himself from every other human they crucified. Maybe by never dying or ageing, he could have convinced millions of people that he was a god. But Christians have had their script hammered into them and they just can't see the gaping holes in it. I have no idea why it never worked on me, but I'm thankful.
No gaping holes whatsoever, Jesus was seen by many witnesses after his resurrection
@@samuelcalderwood1379 Just some assertions in stories in a book unsupported by external evidence and insufficient to warrant belief in such claims. Even if we had incontrovertible evidence of a resurrection (which we don't) the gaping holes in the theology attempting to make sense of this unproven event would still need to be addressed.
I have never understood why “believe X proposition” should be the thing that “saves” someone. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Christians argue that belief is just step 1. Step 2 is worshipping the thing you're meant to believe in without adequate evidence. Even if you could fake it till you make it, this would not be enough for their god. You also have to worship it in the way Christians prefer, and you'd have to follow rules as interpreted by other Christians (your own interpretation would, of course, never match up with theirs, somehow.)
Quite apart from the irrationality and injustice of that proposition, it directly ***contradicts*** the Sermon on the Mount (the whole sheep and goats thing.)
AFAIK Paul invented the concept so he could run a cult based on his personal ideas. He states explicitly that his doctrine is based on personal revelation, not talking to those who met Jesus on earth. It seems likely the Gospels were retconned to incorporate the idea.
Because those are the rules set.
It's like the game. If you think about it, you lose.
@@rapdactyl Believers like to talk about god's "unconditional love." But once you" believe"-you're are expected to dedicate your entire life to this god-or else-hell?
I'm going to make a religion where you need to make yourself like the taste of pistachio ice cream more than any other flavor. Makes about as much sense.
The best way to do it would be for God to reveal himself to every single person in exactly the way God knows would cause them to become convinced. I know what that would be myself. God would have to show up at my door and perform a simple demonstration of a miracle of my choosing, such as making a completely soaking wet towel spontaneously catch fire. That wouldn't PROVE divinity, but it would still convince me. It is a genuine mystery why God doesn't just do this if he wants me to believe. That is, on the hypothesis that God exists and wants me to believe. A better hypothesis is that he simply doesn't exist. That's why he doesn't turn up and perform the small miracle required to fully convince me. Because he isn't real. Que the excuses and rationalizations.
As a non believer non participant up until 12 years ago I would have agreed with you. Without me seeking him out or having any interest in the subject he came through my inner voice and began showing me a form of math I did not know existed. He started filling my head with numbers and soon told me to number the alphabet and to reduce the double digits to single digits. Example: Z is 26. 2+6=8. He explained why he was talking to me by saying it was my name and my numbers. Then he showed me what he meant. Example: I was born at 10:46AM. Change the A to 1 and the M to 4 because it’s the 13 th letter and 1+3=4. Now you have 104614. Split this down the middle and add 104+614=718 or my initials GAH. He had dozens of examples like this that convinced me it wasn’t a coincidence. Here’s one more as there are far to many and would expose my personal info. My step dad’s initials plus my mothers initials plus my sisters initials plus my initials add up to the last 4 off my ssn. I’m not trying to convince you but he convinced me. With that said, what difference did it make in my life? None because if he didn’t leave a bag of golden goose eggs my life is still the same 😳
@garyhershkowitz3435
Sure. Without discussing the details that is great evidence for you maybe. Does that change whether or not we have that evidence?
If not then we as atheist still need that before we can reasonably accept that it exists. So I would say you should agree with the statement since that is what happened for you.
@@Boundless_Border I may have been better off not knowing nor caring nor contemplating the subject. Less confusion that way.
@@garyhershkowitz3435
Yeah. That doesn't work for me since if confusion can be given at the slightest prodding I would be more likely to drop that belief.
@@Boundless_Border no confusion on his existence. Confusion on what’s the point.
Thanks, Paul. Earth is a Vault-Tec Corporation vault. That thought will be stuck in my head for a while.
It all comes down to "You have to believe the Bible". It seems like all Christian apologetics can be refuted by responding, "I don't believe the Bible."
This reminds me of a certain catchy jingle.
Claiming incredulity isnt an argument against any position.
@@joe5959 that's true. But he didn't make a claim of incredulity. A claim of incredulity would be along the lines of "I'm not aware of the Bible saying that." He's pointing out that if all Christian rhetoric boils down to quoting what they believe to be an authoritative source and he doesn't accept that source as authoritative, then all of their arguments fail at the foundation.
@@joe5959 The point is that apologists start with the premise that the Bible is the infallible, inerrant Word of God, and they expect everyone to agree with that premise, so that anyone who says otherwise they claim is consciously lying. That's an absurd position because unless they possess the ability to read people's minds, they cannot know what someone else is thinking. If they accepted the fact that other people do not think the same things about the Bible that they do, and these people are not wicked, Satan-loving liars, they would try to come up with other arguments that don't rest solely on the alleged truth of the Bible.
If the bible is untrue and unimportant, why keep watching videos about disproving the bible? 🤔
As I understand this god is supposed to also be surrounded by a large number of lesser supernatural beings. which also do not show themselves. no one thinks of the angels!
Why would an omnipotent god have helpers? Do the angels realize that they all just have pointless, make-work jobs? Maybe that's why a lot of them quit.
Here's one for you, if the angels are obedient to God, worship him endlessly and are immortal as well, why did he need to create humans for companionship? He already had the spellbound sycophants he wanted.
@@halcyonzenith4411 the whole obsession with worship puzzles me. these beings are complete and infinite, what could worship add for them?
@@billjohnson9472 I suppose it's something to fill the infinite abyss of meaningless nothingness that mortals are so afraid to acknowledge and can't seem to deal with.
He could take the Colbert Questionnaire, and then he would finally be known to everyone.
Huh? What's the "Colbert Questionnaire"?
@@davidofoakland2363 Genius talk show host Stephen Colbert will sometimes ask guests to answer 15 questions or so that reveal their true nature, e.g. "What is the best sandwich?"
The God character would not even pass the Turin test.
@@dogwalker666 Turin is a town in Italy. Alan Turing was the war hero cryptologist who was persecuted for his homosexuality after whom the test is named.
@@KaiHenningsen and? What has that non sequitur information got to do with anything?
Oh wait you are a brainwashed creationist!
"Why doesn't God just show Himself?"
Something that does not exist can't show itself.
Also, exposing yourself is punishable by law.
God walked the earth as Jesus 😁
@@samuelcalderwood1379 no… he erm, didn’t.
@@itsaboutthattime4425 you are saying Jesus didn't exist?
@@samuelcalderwood1379 He did exist, but not the Bible Jesus
@@Writer_Productions_Map you either believe all of the bible, or none of it. Jesus is the Jesus of the bible and he reigns in heaven
4:01 - This is the game-ender right here. If we can't relate to God... why would he create us to have a relationship in the first place? Christianity can't even get off the ground without addressing this.
12:02 I reject this premise. Plenty of people have just showed up in history and claimed that they are either god or have a direct line to god. Sure, some people call them crazy. But they alllllllllll seem to somehow get a following. So yes you can just show up and call yourself god. Things will not go that badly for you
In a way, it is interesting to hear in what weird twisted "logic" people are forced to think when they work from a conclusion towards an explanation.
The example that stood out the most to me as unfair, when I was (in hindsight) in the process of losing my faith and crying out to God without any answer, was that of Gideon. Not only was he told what to do, he asked for confirmation through a specific sign (the dew on the fleece thing) and was given it. Twice! And I got nothing.
And this story is told in church to show God's greatness?
Maybe if you put more money in the plate you'd get your wish. God hates a cheapskate
This was wonderful!!! All of the nonsense, all of the acrobatic bending of oneself to accept the completely unacceptable, and the "This all happened because the Bible says so" is sent away like a puff of smoke. Thank you!!
12:00 The Israelites got a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night. How hard can it be?
Amazing how believers will counter arguments like yours, Paul, by claiming major limitations on god. Then turn around and claim god is all-powerful, -knowledgeable, - loving.
Consistency is not their strong suit.
The god is all-knowing but we have to pray so it knows who needs and deserves healing, ..., ahem.
"Oh God is definitely real. Only an all powerful deity could've fucked up something as simple as an introduction this badly." - Some sarcastic person on the internet
There's current research (e.g., Stanford's Robert Sapolsky) that suggests we don't even choose what ideas we "choose" to expose ourselves to -- adding more evidence that we're not responsible for our beliefs.
Great video Paul, as usual. The problem's far worse as their scriptures say God appeared many times and those people's free wasn't violated. They expose they've done no honest critical thinking and ignore and censor their scriptures when convenient. They also ignore the many stories where their god robbed leaders and entire armies of free will. Their god can rob free will for evil, but not for good.
Slavery in the Bible is the exact opposite of "free will."
Once they knew god exists in a tangible way then they may have treated Him as anyone else we have a relationship with. We have examples that those people thoroughly screwed up. Seek after God earnestly and then you'll have free will and a relationship with Him.
Many who are evil have no free will to begin with. Think of those pushing COVID lockdowns and vaccines. They spouted propaganda they heard from others and couldn't be reasoned with. A person without critical thinking isn't free. Try it yourself. Tell someone that taxation is theft and it should be abolished. You're a free thinking individual so i know I'm not getting a knee jerk reaction from you. Though if you tell someone that social security is immoral and should be abolished they freak out man. It doesn't matter what arguments you use or facts you bring to the discussion people don't want to hear that Social Security is immoral.
My way of saying thanks for your hard work on speaking the truth. As a fellow atheist I know it's hard when you're a minority but know there are people who have your back!
Matched. Reading your message inspired me to also say thank you to Paulogia, so thank you for that this morning. Like most of us, I prefer being inspired by real people.
Wow! That is so generous. Thank you.
@@Paulogia You are so welcome, sir. I’m sure Smithy feels the same. You’re doing God’s work. So to speak…
@@PaulogiaHey, Paul, my real name's Josh. Don't worry about it. I make it a habit of donating to those that help make the world a better place each month. Glad I could help.
@@Paulogia
It would be great if you could set up a 501 C3 so that donations are tax deductible
You perfectly fit what is characterized as an educational organization - or perhaps even religious
God works in mysterious ways and you can't possibly understand why He acts the way He does.
Now allow me to tell you how God thinks.
💭💬🤯
Imagine the devil telling you what God said and how he thinks.
The god thinks remarkably along the same lines as I. Amazing, isn't it?
Listening to Beggar here I was imagining that on his video people would be pointing out the obvious fallacies he was making, but instead, it was just wholehearted celebration of the fact that he had thoroughly proven God "praise Jesus!" It's sad seeing people fall for such bottom of the barrel apologetics.
I was taken back that none of it was irony or sarcasm, but legitimate belief. When they explore these issues they experience cognitive dissonance, and find ways to temper it for the conclusion they favor.
Thanks for the "for those of you just listening along."
The ultimate argument against God.
I'd like to know why god would blatantly and unreservedly show himself SO INEFFECTIVELY that almost ALL of his most-favored believers on the scene at the show were so thoroughly unconvinced that they just ignored the whole thing.
By their god is weak af
Indeed. If the gods want us to actually know they exist, surely they would have found a way to do that by now.
The bible
@@samuelcalderwood1379 ; Paper gods can be destroyed by a mere kitchen match.
@@Desertphile I thought you looked more mature than that statement
Say that thousands of people know god, and talks to them.
Why isn’t their description of god consistent?
Couldn’t we have these people ask questions of the god they communicate with, and see if the answers agree? That would help others accept the idea. A scientific study could definitely be done.
Weird.
Because the Holy Spirit is schizophrenic.
@@njhoepnerPick your words very carefully
@@Bojan12 I did.
@@njhoepner Whatever men sow he will reap
@@Bojan12 I meant what I said. Go ahead and sic your imaginary friend on me. I'm ready.
You really lay out these arguments carefully and succinctly. Well done! I always enjoy watching your content.
Why keep watching videos about something you hate?
@@samuelcalderwood1379 I like to be exposed to different arguments and lines of reasoning. Helps me expand my mind and explore my own positions more deeply. Besides, how do you know what I hate?
@@matthewstenger6150 the guy who makes the video, is a mocker. His reasoning isn't even accurate nor used in the right context. You said you always enjoy the content, therefore you are an enemy of God.
I do note that the original video (similarly to many others of that ilk) has essentially zero negative comments.
Must be divine intervention.
Or manual deletion...
Instructions unclear; I am now in a personal relationship with Godzilla.
Did Godzilla tell you to stay away from Tokyo? If he did, he's legit!
At least Godzilla is real! 🤣
I appreciate your videos, ive been watching alot since i lost my faith, its reassuring knowing im not the only one.
I had lots of questions and reactions about this as it went along, but you adressed them all. Good job. One of your best.
Thank you for laying this out so well!! And thank you to those who support Paulogia to make this possible!
I love the option that he doesn't show himself because it would be a Bird Box type scenario.
Such an applicable Rick & Morty reference drop.
Paul, You express the very kind of thoughts and questions I have in response to defenders of God - except much more succinctly. Thank you!
This video is probably the best and most thorough handling of the divine hiddeness subject that I have ever seen.And it's concise-which I like, which makes it easy to digest and understand.This is a keeper!
Yeah we all know the invisible sky wizard is the hide and seek champion of the universe.
Even though the ancient israelites allegedly saw him without their free will being violated
@@uncleanunicorn4571He appeared to them as a pillar of smoke in the day and a pillar of fire at night, just like the volcano/sky god he was for them at the time.
So God is a shy Jedi! 🤭
If god wanted a relationship with me, god would shoot his/her shot. I'm an introvert 😂
I am too however I already got it
@Bojan12 A relationship involves 2 people. You're basically saying you have a girlfriend but nobody can meet her because she lives in Europe 😆😆😆
@@yvito125 She is everywhere
@Bojan12 How did you verify that? What mechanism are you using to confirm this?
@@yvito125 Our relationship
Chesterton suggested that insanity is not irrational. Rather the internal logic of the insane is airtight. Comedian Steven Wright said, "I came home and found everything in my house replaced by an exact duplicate." How can you argue with that?
Beggar raises a good point, Jesus could have been an immortal being that just existed from the beginning. That'd be pretty good evidence that God existed. An undying, bullet proof, magical guy who just goes around showing off.
Could've made sure to have several Jesuses all over and always. Every single person in all of history with a literal relationship with God, with personal time and teaching and guidance.
@@niceguy191 God is omnipresent. Jesus could just appear next to anyone who ever needs spiritual help.
Jesus did exist from the beginning
@@samuelcalderwood1379 I clearly meant exist on Earth from the beginning, because it does no good having the proof of God exist in a magical realm that only people who already believe get to see after they die. And a book with no sign of divine inspiration isn't exactly a good replacement for actual evidence.
@@toblexson5020 sure you have the chance to believe, life is short eternity is endless. The bible itself says it is God inspired.
The invisible and the non-existent look a lot alike.
But they are not the same at all
@@Bojan12So, help me out, how do i distinguish an invisible, silent, insubstantial object from one that doesn't exist? No, the voices in your head don't counr.
Paul jokes with the Life of Bryan clip, but imbeggar is literally behaving like one of those people who starting following Bryan because of the holy shoe or holy gourd.
If you need an example of post hoc rationalization, here you go.
I always enjoy that apologists seem to know how their god reasons and at the same time argue that its greatness is beyond our understanding.
If God was to speak or come to me, I would think I'm going crazy. best way would show up on TV do an interview and a miracle that can't be denied.
He can do many things. He appeared to me in way I could not ever deny it without once showing His face
Can you be 100% sure it wasn't your mind playing tricks on you?@@Bojan12
Would you then give your life to him?
If it meant I could see my son, Mom and dad again. hell yeah.@@samuelcalderwood1379
15:41 “But what if there’s a chance that God walked on the face of this Earth as a human being?”
That’s what *I’m* saying. Praise be to Odin the All-Father! He did it multiple times!
(This joke was better when Norse mythology was less popular among white supremacists.)
If it makes you feel better I am black and I love Odin. Norse mythology is a fun ride.
@@Awakened_Mucacha I've loved Norse mythology since childhood and I suspect most of the white supremacists are posers who don't actually care, but I've had to set aside my rune necklace for now as a white person.
Wait, there are pagan white supremacists?
I appreciate you reading out his awkward silent slides. I love having your videos in the background while I work
What a wonderful, clear way to address this topic. Excellent video Paulogia, just excellent.
Nice work, as always!❤
Paul, this is a fantastic video. Your content and arguments have grown better and better. Happy to be your biggest fan.
Paul, your videos and arguments continue to improve. The newest set of videos are amazing. Keep up the good work.
This was fantastic!! One of my faves!!
🎵I would do anything for love, anything you've been dreaming of, but I won't do that...🎵