🔶 Demaree Swarm Control Step by Step
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Demaree swarm control is geared towards honey production and is ideal for smaller producers. This method does not make a split and keeps the Queen in her hive, mimics a swarm effect but does not bleed off the population. By depopulating the brood box and keeping the population high, honey production is maximized. This video shows step by step what we do and I explain along the way. Follow along, Demaree 2022.
Filmed entirely at Appalachian Heirloom Plant Farm & Apiary, Winchester, Ohio with a Motorola Z4.
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Really like your videos. I'm actually not too far away from you. Good to see a local making videos
It really worked. I did two followups on this and will be giving presentation on this at the SWO Beekeeper School on March 25.
I enjoyed watching you work for the first time. I lived in West Virginia in 1975 in Sutton. A beekeeper named Gerry Milnes showed me his hives and he had them on stands and there was a 10 ft step ladder as he have left all the honey supers on. There were four or five or six I forget now, equally and all.full.!
I am very impressed by the way you took the stings. I was never able to do that. I used to use duct tape and sometimes I would ask my wife to make sure that there was no entry points for bees. I never really got the hang of it, but I do remember borrowing a honey extractor and was minimally successful.
I just recently bought a package in Maine; installed them on May 1st. They came on a very rainy day and had nothing but plastic coded undrawn comb to work. I would guess that you market your own honey for more than $10 lb..
The big lesson I had to learn as a 25 year old, newly-married and the two proud owner of a hundred acres in the exact center of the state of West Virginia [the geographical marker was on the highest point on the property. Some of the poplar trees were almost 4 ft in diameter and three prong. I started to say my biggest mistake was not expecting the bees properly.. thank you so much but carrying on a noble tradition. Every peekeeper I have ever met has been a moral person; kind and giving.
I still have my 2 honey books, ABC and XYZ and the Hive and the Honey Bee. I have been getting a kick out of the way I used to underline important things. Very little on the Demaree.
The big lesson I learned was not to bite off more than you can chew. I spread myself too thin, trying to do too much; from canning, raising hogs, milking cows, breaking horses to plow. Clearing old pastures.
Playing music all night long and not getting home until the next afternoon, after you sobered up and remembered where you were. Do you see what I'm getting at? Just to listen to pass onto the youth before I go. God bless you Tony!
Thanks. Actually I sell for $10 a pound in glass jars but do wholesale too.
Thank you for your tranfer systematic knowledge
You are welcome. I hope this helps
@@tonywestsbees6042 when I arrived I started beekeeping job so first I contact you
Ok Tony that was great. Sorry you got stung so much. I understand all of what you did except putting the excluder under the brood box on top. Also if you can send out some updates on this hive. I bet they will pile up the honey.
The excluder under the top box is to prevent any rogue Queen from going thru the honey supers. I use a top entrance with this method. You also must go back in 7 days to year down the Queen cells the bees make as they think they are now Queen-less. I will make a follow-up. This hive will produce well over 150 pounds of surplus honey and my hive average using this method will easily be 130 pounds.
Dude... use the darned smoker already. You have the queen caged so you can safely back them off with a few puffs of smoke. However this is something I'm going to try next spring. Cheers from New Zealand
If I remember my smoker was pretty much out. Yeah, got a little comical there. 😆😆😆 Most of my hives are quite a bit calmer than that one was and I rarely have to use smoke on them. That one did make a good crop in 2022 but I replaced the Queen as they were a little feisty.
Great vid..love the green hives..subbed😎
Thanks. Yes, most of my hives are some shade of green. There are a few white boxes I haven't gotten to yet though. I will definitely follow up on these hives. I have done several like this so far.
Awesome video. Thank you!!
I'm glad you liked it and hope it's something that can help.
interesting. first time seeing this method
It works pretty good too. We had no swarming on the hives this was performed on and our honey production per hive was increased quite a bit. Developed in Kentucky in the late 1800's. It's another tool to try.
Great video, Tony! I've had a lot of people ask me about this method and had to search it to educate myself. You did a great job explaining. I'm gonna share it on my new beekeeping community! Does your jacket not have straps to go around your thumbs to hold sleeves down? Might be worth adding if not.
Thanks Jason. It really was a last minute video to make. That was a feisty hive for sure and my jacket cuffs neen both new elastic and new thumb straps (still)! My follow up video was on a different hive as I had problems making the video on the original. The hive in this video made a surplus of 125 pounds and the hive in the follow up video made close to 175 pounds.
Great video .. Thanks
Thanks
Hi! 1. At the very beginning, when you put the queen in the bottom brood box with a frame of pollen, brood, foundation, and some comb...is it basically barren of eggs/larvae?
2.When you talk about putting the brood in the top box - do you mean fully capped or capped, larvae, and eggs?
Also - if someone where to do this a month before their main nectar flow starts, is that wise? What is the management after? just leave them be?
Thanks for asking.
1.)In the beginning, you are leaving the Queen with the field force, one (or two) frame of capped brood and a pollen frame. You want to remove all of the open brood pheromone from this box along with most of the nurse bees. You are trying to mimic a swarm event. When a swarm established a new colony, there are no nurse bees and no open brood pheromone.
2.) All the open brood (eggs and larvae) is moved up top away from the original box.
For me, I equalize the hives a couple times leading towards the flow. Our main flow starts in mid April most years and our swarm season starts early to mid April. By pulling frames of brood from the big hives and giving it to the smaller ones, this equalizing them all out, this buts me a couple weeks time on the stronger ones before they think about swarming. You want to Demaree ideally just before the main flow but it's about reading the colony. If it is not strong enough to swarm, it's too early to perform. The first year of doing this there is definitely a learning curve. Once you get the hang of it, it's almost second nature of what and when. I no longer have swarming and my honey crop has doubled and at times tripled. Good luck.
Follow up. Depending on your length of flow and bees, you may need to do this a second time. My flow is maybe 8 weeks long at best and I perform this only once.
Exelente video ,, gracias por compartir,me gustaría ver el seguimiento , saludos desde Ecuador,,,
Thank you for watching.
th-cam.com/video/uWY0j3NVYtA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the video Tony. I'm planning on doing a Demeree with all 3 of my hives this coming spring, so I very much appreciate your video. My question is - is there a point in the season where you re-configure the boxes to the more traditional 2-deeps with a super or two on top? Or is this a method by which you'll leave the Demaree configuration alone until you've harvested the honey?
I over winter in either double deeps or a deep and a super. Usually sometime in March, I move the Queen to the bottom deep and put an excluder on. From there I run as a single brood box until fall and don't remove the excluder until Late September or October. This works well for me. One thing to watch is some hives are over achievers at pollen collection and will jam up too many frames with it in April and May. There is a learning curve but it works well.
@@tonywestsbees6042 thank you! I like that approach. So during the months you're not concerned about the queen being isolated from the cluster - there's really no need for more than one deep serving as the brood chamber, therefore, a queen excluder down there can only make finding the queen easier when doing things like mite tests/treatment etc., not to mention reducing risk of rolling her.
During warm months, the nurse bees are hanging out with the Queen and brood. No isolation worries. I do have a good followup video, the 30 days later which explains things too. It's a different hive in the apiary but you get the idea.
@@tonywestsbees6042 I watched it, very helpful. Thanks again!
HI Tony, I want to try this method. This is my 9th spring of beekeeping. a few questions: 1. Can I do this method with 2 deeps and a super already on there now? 2. Can I use a hive cover for the second entrance instead of a shim (don't have)? 3. What do you do with the top deep when the new queen starts laying? Move to another bottom board and make a completely separate new hive?
Thanks
Thanks for watching and asking. Let's see if I can answer your questions. 1. Yes. Leave the Queen, one (or two) frames of capped brood, a food frame and if you have a pollen frame, all in the bottom box with the balance of open comb or even a frame or two of heavy waxed foundation. Drop the excluder on top of that. Immediately over that put your supers and the balance of open brood/nurse bees on top above the supers. 2. Yes, use a notched cover for an upper entrance. You might prop the outer cover up a little to make sure it does not cause a problem. 3. IF you decide to raise a Queen in the top box, make sure the upper entrance is facing the back of the hive, opposite of the main entrance. Once she is mated and laying, you can pull a small NUC split off the hive. You can also just continue with her in the upper box, make sure there is an excluder under that top box to keep her out of the supers over the main brood box. If you do this, she can then be used to re-queen the main hive in the fall. My spring flow is only 8-10 weeks long. By mid to late June, I'm pulling supers. I usually do not use this for raising Queens as I'm making summer splits in July and raising Queens then but Demaree does have options. For me, Demaree tricks the hive into thinking it has already swarmed and increases honey production.
Man if the hair doesn't stand up on your neck when u pop the lid all u see solid bee's u say yeaah😊
Absolutely
I just seen someone that did this and he went back a couple of weeks later and and everything went right and he didn't call this by name
If the timing is right, it works pretty good!
Is there an advantage to leaving the top colony on after the colony becomes independent from the other? When can I remove it to split the top colony? I live in South Carolina, So I will be able to do this method now. Thanks for the great explanation of this process.
As the top box brood emerges, they do slowly join the main colony. With a top entry, many will become a field force out of there. Back filling the upper boxes as they have no other duties. We pull spring honey mid June, split our hives then and start grafting Queens. With this method, we have no swarming and much bigger spring honey production.
It's an option. There are no absolutes in beekeeping. Just another tool to try.
Thanks for watching.
just started watching your videos. Can you add a queen excluder to the entrance to prevent the queen from leaving? Then it gives you time to remove queen cells?
An entry excluder will prevent a Queen from leaving but it will do nothing to stop or prevent the swarming impulse. Excluders at the entry will quickly clog with Drones too. Even if you prevent the Queen from swarming, if the hive builds cells, they will continue to move forward with their plans even if you continue to tear down cells. If the hive wants to swarm but the Queen can not leave, they may actually kill the Queen knowing they are trying to raise a new Queen. The only time I use an entry excluder is on valuable breeder Queen hive. Swarming is a natural instinct. You can only trick the bees into thinking they have already swarmed or they do not have the resources to swarm. Swarm Prevention or Control is the biggest challenge all beekeepers have. It's a huge learning curve. Experiment and find what works for you.
@@tonywestsbees6042 Makes sense. Thanks for the Reply!
Good luck this year and enjoy these amazing creatures.
The rainy weather seems to be good for producing nectar... mainly the rain?
Wet springs help nectar production as long as there is plenty of dry fly time for the bees. Dry years produce less nectar but flavors are more intense.
I'm curious (new beekeeper here) If you were worried about the hive getting too tall due to having too many supers, could you just pull the full supers off and store them away until you are ready to extract?
As long as your stand is level and sturdy, they can go pretty high. If the boxes of honey are capped, you can extract those boxes but for me, our flow is fairly short and the hives are stacked up for about 8 weeks before I pull. I would not store boxes of honey. They need extracted within a day or two of pulling or they will get infested with Small Hive Beetles or Wax Moths.
I did this to 3 hives this year and all 3 swarmed anyway? 1 even took off a second time with a virgin queen 2 days ago. I took all open brood and almost all capped brood up above excluder ans 2 supers. About 12 days later there was 2 queen cells in the bottom box and none in the box above the supers. The day after that she left and a week later the virgin left, now my big hive is empty.
Really hard to know why. If they were already in the "mood" to swarm, it's too late for Demaree to work. I had that happen to one hive my first year of trying Demaree. It must be performed before they have Queen cells and you need empty drawn comb for the replacement frames, at least some. Were they definitely swarms and not absconds? We've had no swarms the past few years using Demaree and our honey production has doubled.
What does, "rolling the Queen" mean?
When removing a frame covered with bees, it is possible the Queen is transitioning from one frame to another. Literally it is possibly to roll the Queen like a pop can and can cause injury or kill her.
Don’t you add a separate entrance above the 2nd queen excluder for the top box?
Yes, there is a small upper entrance under the lid is necessary. Sometimes I just use a notched inner cover for the upper entrance, sometimes I use a shim with a small entry cut into it.
Ok Tony I have been trying to wrap my mind around this method. I get it that you stimulate a swarm. Move the brood up on top. They may feel queenless and build queen cells. You can let them and you are basically making a split. If want to keep the hive as is you cut cells and them what? Do you leave the upper excluder on or eventually take it off when there are no eggs left. Also say you only had one super under the top box would you add one on top when the upper box is full?
After moving the brood up top, come back in 7 days and remove the emergency Queen cells they make or leave one and raise a Queen in the top box (must use an upper entrance if you do). As the brood all emerges, this box gets backfilled. I do use a top entrances so I leave the excluders in place in case a rogue Virgin/Queen shows up, it does happen occasionally and keeps them from going down into the honey supers. The emerging brood does slowly move down thru the hive. This manipulation de-populates the brood chamber, gives a ton of room for the Queen and yes, simulates a swarm by removing all the open brood and it's pheromone. I do add supers on top as the old brood box on top is filled. After the honey pull, I make a lot of splits and graft/raise a lot of Queens and use the deep frames from the old brood box that are mixed honey and pollen frames in these splits.
Demaree must be done before the hive has started swarm tendencies. Once they have decided to swarm, you have to make a split.
Now, you can make a vertical split if they are in swarm prep. That is, leave one Queen cell (only one) in the brood box, move the old Queen and a couple frames of bees and brood up above all the Honey Supers and above an excluder. The new Queen will emerge, go on mating flights and start the new brood nest. The old Queen is still laying up top contributing to the population. Once the new Queen has capped brood downstairs, remove the old Queen to a NUC or new hive.
Options. Read what the bees are doing and keep them in the box. A hive that swarms produces little honey compared to a big, strong hive that did not swarm.
I hope this clears things up some.
@@tonywestsbees6042 Please explain "swarm tendencies"? What specifically am I looking for in order to make the decision to make a split or not? Thank you for this informative video :-)
The video answered my post. Great video
Populations in the spring build up fast. Swarming is triggered by several things. Surplus of incoming nectar and pollen, large population and crowding in the hive, day length growing longer and hives with older Queens are more likely to swarm than young Queens. It's a big learning curve on what to look for.
Thanks
How did this Demaree set up work for you last year? Thanks from central Virginia
It did very well in 2022 and 2023. No swarms at all and honey production was double in 2022 and just shy of double in 2023. It is the matter of reading the hives and getting this done just before they think about swarming. Thanks for watching.
Why did you add a Queen excluder under the TOP box of
open larvae?
One of the most common questions on this. One week after you perform this, you need to go back and remove all Queen cells as there will be emergency cells made. If you miss any, they will raise a Queen, it will go out, mate and return (remember there is an upper entrance). Without an excluder, this Queen will end up in the middle of your honey supers with brood. On a related note, I have seen small swarms settle in upper boxes with entrances on tall active colonies. This is an extra security for your honey supers.
Hi, Can the demaree split be done after the honey flow? Mainly to strengthen the colony for the fall or next year? (only the 2nd full year into bee keeping. )
It can be done at anytime to prevent swarming. This is usually unnecessary after the summer solstice in the northern hemisphere.
@@tonywestsbees6042 I'm in the south so it stays warmer until late oct early November. I'm not too worried about swarming right now. i was thinking about it for strengthening the hive and possible fall honey.
Thanks for the tips. Great info on your videos.
Do u have a follow video to this Dem Swrm contrl stp by stp video?
I use this on most of my hives now. Honey production is much higher and when I pull supers in June, the hive population is big, I can make summer NUCs, raise Queens, draw fresh frames, etc.
Do you prefer to bottom super as opposed to top supering?... if so why?
Thx
I personally prefer bottom supering. I feel the empty being directly over the brood nest helps clear incoming nectar from being jammed up. Remember the field bees pass nectar off to house bees and they in turn jam it into the nearest cell temporarily until it can be taken "upstairs". By having an empty directly above the brood nest, I feel nectar gets cleared faster.
I have two very strong and robust hives that I am thinking about doing a demaree split on them. I have not see any queen cells, just a couple of empty queen cups. Do you think it is too early in the year to do a demaree split? I am in Monroe County, SE Ohio.
THX
That's the tricky part is reading the hive. Your GDD (growing degree days) is about the same as mine. Do you have drone brood or emerged Drones yet? If you have emerged Drones, you are just a couple weeks from swarming. If no Drones but you have Drone brood, then 4-5 weeks from swarming. The key is to get built up but just shy of swarm cells being built or catch it in the first few days when Queen cells are just being charged. That is the perfect time to Demaree. This week I am equalizing all the hives, pulling back the strong and bumping up the late season NUCs so they all are about the same strength mid April. I'm sure I'll start Demaree in just a few weeks this year, easily April from the looks of things. Once performed, remember to go back 7-8 days later and remove the emergency cells they will make. Demaree can be performed twice if needed. Be sure to check out 30 day followup video we made. It's a different hive but the same Apiary. Thanks for watching.
Thx Tony@@tonywestsbees6042
I do not have drones, but I do have drone brood.
@davidsoloninka7742 sounds like you are right with me. Watch the bees closely. Manipulate the brood nest if you can to give the Queen room. Add a box for the bees, think floor space. Demaree in 3-4 weeks probably. As population grows, Queen pheromone will decrease along with increase brood pheromone. Those along with incoming resources and crowding are all swarm triggers. Older Queens are definitely more likely to swarm too.
How long does the box stay on the top
The brood will all emerge and the bees backfill it with nectar and honey. I pull frames with pollen and use these in NUCs. You can also use this top box to draw out new frames/foundation.
Two questions, the honey supers you added, were they new frames or drawn out frames? And why the second queen excluder?
The second excluder is a "just in case" you miss a Queen cell in the upper box. If you did miss a cell, you end up with a mess down in your supers. On the Supers, in that video, it was drawn frames. This year I have already ran out of drawn frames, I'm putting in heavy waxed frames/foundation with a single drawn frame in the middle of the box directly over the brood nest to get more drawn out. I hope this helps.
Why the second queen excluder on the top?
This prevents rogue virgin Queens or swarms from taking over the upper hive. If one would enter, she can only have one box and not lay down thru all the honey supers. Since there is drone brood in the top box, I put an upper entrance for them to get out which then opens this possibility.
So this setup is basically identical to a vertical two queen hive. Could you do this treatment and arranfe the boxes like a pyramid style two queen hive, with the brood boxes side to side and the supers straddled on top? Thus would address the height issue.
That would work. I sometimes use this to raise another Queen too. Go back in 7 days later, year down any cells they make and drop in a grafted capped cell from a breeder Queen. She will exit the top entrance for her mating flights and return back up there. In this case, I prefer to have the upper entrance on the back of the hive to prevent her from entering the main entrance.
Does this have to be done during a flow or before?
Being in a flow is one swarming trigger along with over crowding, high brood pheromone and lack of egg laying space. Demaree mimics a swarming event but does not depopulate the hive. Increased honey production is a benefit but the primary use is to reduce swarming.
Inspecting;lesson. Microphone texting😊Peace.
😆
Is this APIs cerena
Apis Mellifera
For what reason do you use a second queen excluder?
At day 7 or day 8, you have to go back in and remove the emergency Queen cells in the top box. If you miss one, you will end up with a Queen up there. You can also use this to raise a replacement Queen for the bottom box at this time too. This upper excluder keeps any Queen (accidental or purpose raised) from entering your honey supers. It's an insurance policy. I have seen small swarms enter into upper entrances of an active hive too.
Hello Tony. Nice work, i was enjoying to see you doing the inspection and taking the decision according to the assessment. Some of my hives became aggressive after I have applied the Demari split on them, but after two weeks they gradually return to calmness.
This hive got pretty revved up! As you can see, it's a big, strong colony too. I curious how they are filling the new supers and will check on them soon. I have done this procedure on several hives this spring, so far it works great. You de-populate the brood chamber but do not hurt the colony population at all. I will make a follow up video on these hives after the flow this year. Thanks for watching and I hope it helps other beekeepers and gives them an option.
So basically when bee colonies are made queen less from my experience yep they get bloody pissed off more so than Any other time , watching the video you can tell they are in no mood to negotiate lol they want their mumma and they are going to make you pay 😂
This is a big, strong hive. They were not too bad until I tore apart the brood chamber. They really got revved up! I will be pulling honey off this hive this coming Saturday. I made a follow up video to this on another hive in the apiary, check it out.
Why do you put a queen excluder under the top deep?
If you happen to miss an emergency Queen cell in the relocated brood box and this cell hatches, mates and returns, this will keep her out of your honey supers along with any rogue virgin or odd swarm that wants to settle in the upper. If you decide to use this to raise a Queen, definitely need the excluder for the above reason. It's a backup safety measure. Thanks for watching. Have a great season.
Why no smoker?
If I remember right, I had been working hives for a couple hours and my smoker had went out. A small amount of smoke is definitely useful.
“Decision on the fly”. That’s the story of my beekeeping. 😁😁. I suspect it’s done a bit sooner probably wouldn’t need as many supers, but at the same time, since you had a flow coming, should’ve been ideal as they fill those empties and the partials. I think I’ll try a bit of this method this coming season.
Hey Mike. Thanks for watching. This method works as long as timing is right and you catch them before they have not made up their "mind" to swarm. My honey production per hive is two times or more with this method and I can still raise Queens, draw comb and make splits in late June after the flow is over. It took me a couple years to really get the hang of it but it is my preferred method of swarm control.
From watching videos and listening to many keeper who have done this, sees like a good method to help prevent swarms while keeping honey and brood production maxed. Sounds like it shoves the queen and bees into overdrive, does/can this burn your queen out faster? Ty for your time, Blessed Days...
This really allows the Queen and the hive to shine and is an option for those that do not want to make splits or additional hives. I don't think it hurts the Queen at all but I rarely keep Queens past 2 years old. Definitely builds population and maximized honey production. This must be done before the hive has it's "mind" set on swarming. If you find capped Queens cells, it's too late to try this method. Thanks for watching.
Why not utilize smoke to calm them down a bit, and to smoke your wrist to cover the pheromone from future detection?
That was a pretty feisty hive, strong one too. Most of my other hives are much calmer.
I guess I go into a hive with the boy scout motto in mind.... always be prepared. I always work in a full suit and have my smoker down to a science so it is always ready!@@tonywestsbees6042
Great video and well explained. Thanks for sharing. This method works really well. Good strong hive and no swarm. Will pull a good crop for sure.
Thanks. I try to explain things in my videos that is easy to understand and follow. I hope this gives beekeepers an option.
Why couldn’t he just add another brood box(to give the queen more room to lay). And add more honey supers or swap out a full honey super with empty one? (To give more room for workers?) I’m gonna start beekeeping in spring that’s why I ask. I’m new. Any explanation would be helpful. Thanks
Hi Brian. You could. There are so many ways to manipulate bees for various results. If a Queen is a year old, they are likely to swarm no matter what you do, that is nature's way. Adding boxes does help, it adds floor space for all the emerging bees preventing crowding. With my genetics, I rarely see over 8 frames of brood. This method mimics a swarm effect and when combined with young Queens from the previous fall, you end up with big, strong hives going into our spring nectar flow. This is just one "tool" to use. With bees, there is no absolutes. I share this method to give beekeepers an option other than making splits.
@@tonywestsbees6042 thanks for the reply, I apreciate the answer and you passing on your knowledge.
Do you have to be in a honey flow to perform this method?
Anytime you are approaching a swarm situation, you can use this method
Love this method, I have noticed my queens at the end of the flow tend to get superseded from this method putting them into hyper drive. Not a big deal because I replace every year from grafts.
This is only our second year with this method. It's extra work but definitely produces bigger hives and more honey. I will follow up with is in another video after the flow. Thanks for watching.
@@tonywestsbees6042 definitely a great way to make huge colonies, huge honey production, and great comb production. The only time it hasn’t gone well was when I jumped the gun on an upcoming colony that wasn’t super strong, it sent them backwards a couple weeks, kind of a case by case on when to use it. I may be doing it wrong as well, I leave upper entrances. Out the back the first 7 days, and then. Flip it around the remaining time.
Thanks Tony
You are welcome. I hope this video helps.
They are looking and doing great. Thanks
Thanks for watching. I hope these videos are helping others.
How do the drones get out.
I always have an upper entrance, a notched inner cover. That allows the drones out along with any field bees that can then return to the brood box. Thanks for watching!
Do you take a split at the end of the season from this hive as well?
When the honey pulling ends, could and do you split that hive in two? And perhaps even kill old queen and habit both splits with new ones?
Thank you!
Yes, we pull honey towards the end of June and there is plenty of time for splits, raising Queens and even pulling wax with a trickle of syrup added as we are in a dearth at the time.