...may or may not have wanted to say something about that... but, I sort of felt guilty given that it's a 50 minute video and my only take away was him briefly saying something about a reach around... :P
I grew up helping my Dad at this TV repair Store, Regent TV, in Sunnyvale, Ca, and your videos are so awesome. Brings back all the wonderful memories. Atari used to call me Dad to repair their monitors. They wanted him to teach their technicians, and he refused. Great memories!
The best way to a good mood after a long day, watch your videos, bring back old stuff. I am 36 years old and that is my childhood. Stay healthy und motivated. Best regards from Germany.
happy i did trash it all, who needs a trash museum, running what on it? converted all music we composed only, only kept the DX -7 keyboard and Korg synth!
I think adrian is the most wholesome retro pc channel...I really enjoy watching these since my 12 year old son can watch them with me and learn about the stuff his dad grew up with! Thanks Adrian!
35:21 I bought one. It weighs 2 lbs. When I first plugged it in to test it, I didn't know if it was on or off. It was on, as evidenced by the blower shooting back a foot and then starting twirling around. That's how powerful it is. 😄
I’m loving watching you check each cap. I work alone a lot and it is incredibly validating to watch this extended troubleshooting. So many videos are highlight reels that make me feel like I’m spending way too much time on things. Thank you!!🙂
When shipping monitors, you REALLY need to use those expanding packing foam bags to basically make a form-fitting insulator that has 2-3 inches of foam in every corner of the box. Also, use a thick-walled rigid box. I've shipped 6 monitors this way and none of them were damaged. The only way to do it better is to use the original box with the original styrofoam.
Just a random musings from my head while watching the first few minutes, I sometimes wonder if the Commodore 1701 monitor was named as the "1701" as part of the association with Bill Shatner advertising the VIC-20 back in the day, loosely tying it into the Star Trek franchise (especially as they low-budget "beamed" him in to the ad!!), given the Enterprise registry, as everyone should know, is NCC-1701... :D
Your videos are so relaxing. It’s like I’m hanging out with a friendly tech in their workshop and I don’t feel like I’m getting in their way. Learning a lot. ❤
another tip! pretty much all parts location id numbers are the same from brand to brand as a standard. so if it's a vertical deflection issues it's gonna be a part in the 400's. if it horizontal deflection or no high voltage it's going to be a part in the 500's. unless your B+ in the power supply is gone (b+ voltage is your main voltage coming from the power supply.) if you pay attention to the numbers you will see what i'm talking about and it's helps you find the section of the board you should be working in.
This monitor was very poorly packaged, I don't think that was the shipping company? It is a miracle that it arrived still intact like that. I hope Adrian adds some extra padding before sending it back!
It's always great to find someone who does not believe in the mindless changing of all electrolytics on a PCB which happens all too often, it is the sign of a true engineer. 👍
I loved my 1802. It ended up with my Dad when I passed my Commodore gear on to him when I started using my Amiga and PC way back in the day. It still works. I guess I have been lucky with monitors as my Philips CM 8833 MkII also still works.
Thanks for the 8 Bit dance party Adrian. I always hated old monitors and thought LCDs were the best thing ever when they were invented but you are giving me a new appreciation of CRTs.
I love the workup about the air blower, talking about how things are going to end up all over the place, and then we get the most underwhelming result... but I hear you about caps, I just had to recap my entire Sony PSU that was OEM for my Sun Sparc IPX lunchbox machine. What a mess that thing made, juice everywhere!
I love this kind of video. I’ve got an old Samsung EGA monitor that has a similar collapse and I think this will give me the confidence to give repairing it a try.
I worked as an automotive tech for nearly 2 decades and yes, once you verify the concern\problem with whatever you are diagnosing, a good visual inspection can save so much time. You still should always test and verify a failure before condemning the part, but just looking first can really help narrow down where to look.
Be careful with this monitor and do some extra preventative maintenance before putting it away. Inside the yoke there is some of that same brown glue and it will eventually corrode through the yoke winding and cause a short which will blow the yoke and then you'll have an unusable monitor. Remove the yoke and clean off all the brown glue and hope it hasn't damaged the enamel coated wires yet. Years ago I was given an 1801 that had exactly that fault and I had to replace the yoke as it was burned black on the vertical winding. You've been warned, do nothing and the monitor will die all by itself thanks to Commodore using corrosive glue. The fault is documented on Ray Carlsen's website. Go do some reading and fix it now!
I have a similar issue with a b/w TV. I bought it at Ebay because I used that exact type on my VIC-20 in the early eighties. This video encourages me to look for the error honestly.
The original 1701/1702 were JVC TV/Monitors rebranded. Some of them, the earliest, have still a cubhole where the RF Modulator sat, and all the other have some pegs hidden under the bezel where the JVC logo was affixed. Nice video, I love seeing restorations and since I may have to move in a bigger house, I always seek suggestions on how to pack my CRTs properly ^_^
RF adapter is called a balun (balancing unit) and while it does change the impedance, the main difference is the balanced/unbalanced thing. They do work in both directions, also.
I thought it was BALanced / UNbalanced i.e converting between a balanced input to an unbalanced input or vs. versa. Example 75 ohm UNbalanced to 300 ohm BALanced.
@@jeffm2787 "Balanced/unbalanced" is another name. The change in impedance is not the central concept here, and you can for example buy baluns that have 50 ohms impedance on both sides.
@@graealex Yes I understand, been a HAM for years and have a strong background in electronics. It's my understanding that the BALUN word came from Balanced to Unbalanced.
I actually just picked an 1802 up recently. Audio sporadic. And the video selection switch is spotty which the sound does get better when I mess with it
Nice job there, I have to admit I have done the whole troubleshooting process and not seen the obvious, as sometimes you just expect stuff to require probing and thus go straight to that, rather than just do a bit of observation first to spot anything that is out of the ordinary... :)
Try some Deoxit F5 for Fader Control. It is specially formulated for pots and has special lubrication for the pots. Works great for this type of thing.
i have an 1802 made in'86. it looks white, and is larger than this one. been in wrapped in a plastic bag, and not turned on since ~2000. was part of a c128, or facelifted c64 system my father had collecting dust in a spare bedroom since the mid 90's. i boxed and bagged the whole thing up,put it in storage, but kept the monitor at home. it the only thing wrong with it at the time was the floppy open/close plastic switch was broken.it had the pc,floppy, printer, and joystick. i had it stored in the loft of a friends barn with some other childhood items. they were forgotten about, and the barn was torn down, and all my stuff was lost, but the monitor. if you want it, you can have it.
Great video and nice work! 😀👍 What I think happened here is that the glue turned conductive and probably contributed to that capacitors demise. You can also see the glue starting to go bad right next to that hot resistors other leg.
fairly common problem, the glue absorbs moisture from the air, i've had this and rubber wedges between the scan coils and crt also absorbing, even to state of being 'wet' and this wet seems acidic and corrodes the wire in the scan coils, in some cases destroying them!
5:41 *high* dot pitch, not low ;) I’m working on one of these today which has a bizarre effect that I call the Aurora Commodoralis. Very dim wide diagonal bars of red, blue, and green shimmering in the middle of the display (bars are a few centimetres long) - visible for several minutes in a dark room after turning off. I’ve never seen such a thing on any CRT before 😂
I remember I built a power supply. the capacitor across the output was a high capacitance value (4700uF I think), but only 16 volts. The input to the voltage regulator was only 15 volts, under load, but when the load was removed, it'd float as high as 18. I only ever used it while it was under load, but I leant it to somebody. He said that when he finished using it, and turned his machine off, the power supply made a bang sound. Yup, the capacitor inside had exploded, pretty much filled the entire box with gooey fur. Replacing the capaitor wasn't an issue, I actually used a pair of lower capacity (2200uF?) 25V capacitors... but it took me about half an hour to clean out the remnants of the old capacitor.
As a person that has done repair work on equipment that has power resistors around capacitors and all I have move power resistors to a metal heatsink or the frame to keep the caps from cooking. When replacing capacitors I don't deviate to far from the capacitance value and will usually go higher on the voltage due to the factors of how some systems were designed around specs. If a system is rated to have 25v on a line you will see tight values installed of either the 25v which is not the best idea or 35v which is better but still not very good. I usually will go at least twice the voltage of what was in there. In this case I would have gone with a 50v cap just to have a good safety margin. Better to have higher voltage than be too close that a surge pops it or another component goes wacky and sends higher voltages where it was not expected taking out more down the line. Thanks for the video. Sorry for the text wall.
Nice job. I was 99.9% sure it was a cap issue as soon as you powered it on. Was surprised you didn't change them all. Yes, the caps check good, but they are 35 years old and it's a good preventive maintenance for the future. Either way, thanks for the great content.
if the others test good, no need to change, doesnt guarantee against future failure at all, any other, maybe unobtainable part could fail, and those original caps can potentially last many more years, i have lots of old equipment and have rarely had to change any capacitors, i find relatively new(late 90s to 2010s) caps and equipment worse!
I agree. I am against replacing working parts but caps are a bit different in my experience. A lot of them can test good but still be bad. I usually recap anything I work on because I have a reputable and trusted source for good caps. Everyone’s mileage varies.
@@MikesArcadeMonitorRepair if they test good, how can they be bad??!! i usually leave alone unless obvious signs of heat problems/or near heat source, or known bad brands, or if know problem for that particular equipment (had that a good few times in the 90s), caps in long unused equipment may seem to test bad, at first, but once powered up, be ok, due to deforming with disuse,
I am referring to them testing good for now, but being 35 years old, start to fail relatively soon. I basically don't trust them is what I'm saying, especially on high-usage items. Components like resistors, poly caps, inductors, flyback, etc I will of course leave alone. I have been repairing monitors and arcade parts for 15 years and caps are just the bane of my existence. So I'm biased towards replacing them because they often go bad prematurely due to the heat inside the machines while being ran for hours on end. Just my experience and preference.
@@MikesArcadeMonitorRepair so you'd replace now, and again after another 35 years,?? then again.?! i doubt many modern ones would last as long as the originals....
At least the Postie didn't use the box as a football, unlike Mr Lurch's All-in-one package from his Saturday video. I actually bought a 1084 monitor from East Coast Australia to West coast, and I never appreciated the risks of it being damaged. The seller did a great job of protecting it and even put FRAGILE stickers all over it, and luckily it arrived intact, and I cherish it to this day. I recapped the electrolytics, now I feel silly as the old ones were likely just fine, and it never worked any better. It's a great combo with my Atari 800XL with RGB graphics adaptor.
At our computer collection we had the same problem, with a Philips monochrome monitor. This cap has a high AC current load and therefore wears down more than others.
The most impressive thing about this video is you know every adapter/cable by name. I would have called most of those things in the purple case “another cable thingy”
Had a couple of 1802's for a few years. Never had as much luck with those as with the 1701 / 1702's I've had. 1 of them ended up with the vertical deflection problem this 1 has. The other had a number of cold solder joints on the main pcb which a friend at tpug did help with a few years ago. Too bad it ultimately failed again.
I never had a 1702 or 1802 monitor. I eventually had a Philips color monitor that would do 80 column mono for the 128. Forgot the model, but rigging it for Mono output was a mod I did back in 1987.
Nice one, Adrian. Yep - shotgunning is a viable (and on vintage electronics, some would perhaps say the _best_ ) servicing technique. But I agree with you and your diagnostic approach. For vertical centering on sets without a control (and fergitaboud changing resistors, eh?) sometimes using the purity rings to centre the image woiks. Maybe.
Awesome video brings back memories ;) Had one just like it, but metal, back in the day, played a lot of SNES on it :) Also acted as my secondary monitor for my SE/30, that's a keeper for sure :)
Great Video!!! I'm glad I checked your 2nd channel or I would of missed this great piece of retro history being fixed. I watch every video on your main channel and love your content so much!!! On a side note I have just bought three 1084S monitors from eBay to try and make two. One for my A1200 and the other for my C128D that I just got last week. One sold as works but the case is BAD (It showed up working like the eBay photos showed). The 2nd one is sold as is for parts only in original box with all books. Seller said it worked when he put it away 5 years ago and the case is perfect!! with no yellowing). The 3rd one is also in original box and it's case is a little bit rough and the seller shows it working if you hold in the switch after a few pushes, but turns off as soon as you let go of the switch. I have bought a four pack of their power switches (ME5A TV3 2.5/100 250V XB power switch potentiometer switch 4 Pin-4PCS/LOT) from AliExpress for $36 and free shipping. I'm hoping at least 2 or 3 work because in the reviews some have wrote that one of the four didn't work.
@Adrian's Digital Basement ][ Cif power shine is good for electronics cleaning. I don;t know if it's abaiilable in the US, but in Europe, specially in Poland and Germany you can get one with no problems. I used it to clean up trash picked CRT TV gunked up with ciggarete residue. I soeaked it wet, and alll gunk was gone in a few mins...
Just FYI, the USB to PS/2 passive mouse adaptors work on more recent peripherals: The work fine with my Asus Gaming (5 button laser) mouse that came with a i7-4720HQ powered laptop I bought in 2015.
Recapping these monitors is popular for people who don't have the skill to troubleshoot these effectively. It's cheap, doable for someone with basic tools, and often effective. I know Shango and others criticize people for doing it, but do what you can with what you have. Not everyone has a fast oscilloscope, libraries of SAMS fotofacts, and specialized test equipment necessary to repair things "properly."
'blanket' recapping is a waste, as in the video, only one faulty, and they're not always to blame anyway, you dont need oscilloscopes or expensive equipment to test them, you can get fairly cheap cap/component testers via ebay, banggood, or similar, caps to check first, are ones near anything generating heat, ones in cool areas much less likely to have gone bad, heat and ripple current are big killers of caps, and hours of use, not purely 'age'
@@andygozzo72 it’s a different story when you get into the really old televisions and radios, as most of those have the old paper capacitors which are guaranteed to be leaky, so in those cases, you practically MUST do a full recap before you can hope for it to work.
Great video - as it turns out the CRT was in such good condition, maybe it could be worth a case restoration too! Curious how long you spent doing the board component checks, interested in how much time would have been saved by doing the visual inspection.
Dear Adrian's you can use 100 w light bulb in between for a safe switching on an old TV or Monitor that you're not sure whether it work or not or there might be a risk of blowing up, it's very easy if the light bulb does comes on that means there is a problem and you should not plug it in directly until figuring out the causes, stay safe.
I usually find the 'box-within-another-box' approach the best when shipping CRT TV's/ monitors. A little like those Russian nesting dolls. Even better is the original packing materials, but that's often too much of an ask! Here in the UK, we have a great service called Shiply who are really good with the handling of CRT's, even the large screens (28" and above).
At 31:43 what is the molex connector to the right of your hand? I have a wells gardner 27" arcade CRT and I'm trying to find a connector the AC input. That connector looks about the same but with more pins. Cant seem to find it online.
@@Okurka. That's totally the wrong type. Anyway wafer is not a real connector. The correct type is usually JST, Amphenol, TE Connectivity, Hirose or Molex or some other actual brand. @TheGato38 I own a Wells D9200 27" arcade CRT which is in my Taito Egret II arcade cab. If your monitor is the same model or similar, contact me directly and send a pic of the connector and I can help you to identify it. There are many many many different types of connectors and most of them look the same. Or look on mouser for cable and power connectors and you will probably find it.
@@Okurka. That doesn't help. There are at least 6 different 1802 monitors that all look slightly different and will be different internally too. But you missed the point. The guy was asking about a Wells Gardner arcade monitor made in the early 2000's, not 1986 like the Commodore 1802. Looking up a 'wafer' connector isn't going to help because the Wells monitor uses modern connectors. Like I said there are 1000's of connectors and they all look very similar on the surface and the guy obviously isn't clued up enough to see that the 1802 connector is actually noting like the Wells monitor connector. He just sees a connector and thinks it's similar. The reality is very different.
@@johnbos4637 It was the only Daewoo 1802 Service Manual. OP asked about the "molex connector to the right of your hand"; it's that question that I answered.
Just a bit of trivia, when I was in college in the early 90s, in the library they had a video station where they had a JVC monitor that had a case that looked just like a Commodore 1701 or 1702 monitor, except it was black.
I've had a few shocks from undischarged HV caps on a monitor (a mini monitor, but still a shock), so it was a bit cringy to see you working on the monitor board without discharging the HV cap. :P 29:20 Actually, I think that is glue. What we may have here is a classic case of the glue used to hold the cap in place becoming dry, crusty, conductive and corrosive over time. I've seen that in at least two instances. One was with Terry Stewart's Classic Computers, with a diode in an IBM CGA monitor becoming corroded. The other one was with a rarity that I wasn't exactly able to save because it seemed too far gone; a power supply for a Sanyo MBC-775 XT Clone. (The kind with a color CGA CRT. The kind I got shocked with. Don't fret, though, because I got another one with it in a lot sale, and the other one worked with parts swapped!) I may be wrong about it being glue, though, but I've seen similar gunk on perfectly-normal caps in that power supply being held down. (Although the leads got corroded in many instances.)
The 1701 (at least mine and most of which I came across) has a relatively small dot pitch. It actually killed (sort of) my childhood TV. My first own TV was a cheap 1997 14 inch model (still cost around 500 Euros in today's money) and I watched the hell out of it (up to 4 hours a day...). Then I was given a Commodore 128 with a few games and that monitor and I was happy, but when I found out I could hook it up to my VCR and use it with the VCR as a tuner I could make this a TV and the picture was so much better than my old TV, I didn't use that one any more and after a few months I thought I'd give my old TV another go, it struggled to turn on and the picture was dim and blurry. I thought maybe it'll get better if I start using it daily again. That worked for a day or two (with the picture like it should be), the next day it was blurry and dim and then something went bang (rather unspectacularly) and it just died. But well, I had a 1701 monitor I could watch TV with and with a flick of the switch on the back I'd be off to playing video games. And it still works today and I still use it a lot (although not as a TV anymore as my daily driver is now a Philips 26 inch from 1983 with stereo sound and bass reflex speakers).
i was recently working on a Nokia phone dc charger. The optocoupler Zener diode had made PCB into black ,and it was getting so hot that the solder joints were dripping off on the plastic body!
For a long-term fix you could maybe mount that cap with some long leads and fold it away from those gnarly resistors. With some heatshrink tubing on the legs of course.
If there is space under the board you could move the power resistor „down under“ and away from the cap. It wiggled anyway when you touched it as it were cold solder joints. Never move a cap away on long Leads because of inductance effects an that cap is a power reservoir for the deflection oscillator. And long Leads defeats its porpoise of delivering power to the circuit.
As this is a low frequency circuit I doubt lead length will make a difference here. In more critical areas and particularly with ceramic/film/tantalum caps lead length should definitely be kept in mind.
What I did with a can of deoxit that had that top was remove it, and put on one from a duster can. You said the air can you have Is almost empty so you can do it with that.
Hello! excellent videos congratulations! I would like to know the part number of the flyback of the 1802 monitor in order to buy it. Unfortunately it does not appear in the schematic diagram. I would appreciate that information please!
I’ve taken apart electronics in the past and it was not uncommon to find parts that are susceptible to breaking off if exposed to sustained vibration get anchored to the board with some type of contact cement. I’ve also seen some type of hard wax used, and my work uses epoxy in similar situations.
Packing is always a challenge. In this case there was no packing on the top. But really there was not enough on any side, monitors are so dense. Imagine the box getting dropped on its top from 6 feet because that’s the reality
@@stragulus tvs and monitors need at least 5 inches of soft polyurethane foam all round, not polystyrene, though, as this is far too hard and rigid (i used to work for a packaging company)
![Adrian's Digital Basement ][](http://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AIdro_k7CrQRe71qN6c0Ua7A1P_I8KkxjqLa70u0zYeCvdvnKw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
"I'm going to give it a reacharound" I had gum in my mouth prior to that statement. I'm not sure where it went.
Glad I'm not the only one who spotted that.
Around.
Well at least he has some gosh-darned common courtesy!
@@bruwin Full... Metal... Jacket.
...may or may not have wanted to say something about that... but, I sort of felt guilty given that it's a 50 minute video and my only take away was him briefly saying something about a reach around... :P
I grew up helping my Dad at this TV repair Store, Regent TV, in Sunnyvale, Ca, and your videos are so awesome. Brings back all the wonderful memories. Atari used to call me Dad to repair their monitors. They wanted him to teach their technicians, and he refused. Great memories!
"Bring the alcohol!" And then Adrian turned into Ben Heck with toothbrush... 🤣
Let's not compare Adrian to that covidiot genital wart.
@@hiroprotagonist1587 hahahahaha well said
Watch the entire video at 2x speed like I did. Much much more entertaining.
All we are missing is the LGR reference
@@cheapasstech Needs Woodgrain
The best way to a good mood after a long day, watch your videos, bring back old stuff.
I am 36 years old and that is my childhood.
Stay healthy und motivated.
Best regards from Germany.
happy i did trash it all, who needs a trash museum, running what on it?
converted all music we composed only, only kept the DX -7 keyboard and Korg synth!
I think adrian is the most wholesome retro pc channel...I really enjoy watching these since my 12 year old son can watch them with me and learn about the stuff his dad grew up with! Thanks Adrian!
I'd love to see this monitor cosmetically restored too! Retrobright, 3D printing etc.
Thanks for another great video!
yeah that would be great!
35:21 I bought one. It weighs 2 lbs. When I first plugged it in to test it, I didn't know if it was on or off. It was on, as evidenced by the blower shooting back a foot and then starting twirling around. That's how powerful it is. 😄
21:38 Adrian, talking to his small army of meters "Shush, who's beeping? Trying to film here, you bastards!" LOL! :-)
I’m loving watching you check each cap. I work alone a lot and it is incredibly validating to watch this extended troubleshooting. So many videos are highlight reels that make me feel like I’m spending way too much time on things. Thank you!!🙂
Loved the enthusiasm in this one. The toothbrush bit got me.
Careful about channelling Ben Heck there XD
hahaha, usually it's Ben channeling everyone else, lmfao.
When Adrian starts busting out into song mid-video, then we'll know for sure.
Is it just Ben Heck? Or is it a fate that befalls anyone who spends this much time working on vintage electronics? 🤔
@@natethefighter Must be all that leaded solder and flux fumes haha
Yeah, Adrian seemed especially energetic in this one! Too much Tang? :)
A very enjoyable episode. Seems you had a good time too, Adrian. Nice fix.
Thanks! It was very fun and enjoyable.
When shipping monitors, you REALLY need to use those expanding packing foam bags to basically make a form-fitting insulator that has 2-3 inches of foam in every corner of the box. Also, use a thick-walled rigid box. I've shipped 6 monitors this way and none of them were damaged. The only way to do it better is to use the original box with the original styrofoam.
Just a random musings from my head while watching the first few minutes, I sometimes wonder if the Commodore 1701 monitor was named as the "1701" as part of the association with Bill Shatner advertising the VIC-20 back in the day, loosely tying it into the Star Trek franchise (especially as they low-budget "beamed" him in to the ad!!), given the Enterprise registry, as everyone should know, is NCC-1701... :D
That Would be pretty cool and not outside the realm of possibility. Lots of computer guys were Star Trek fans.
You can really tell in this video that working on CRTs sends Adrian to his happy place ☺️
Your videos are so relaxing. It’s like I’m hanging out with a friendly tech in their workshop and I don’t feel like I’m getting in their way. Learning a lot. ❤
another tip! pretty much all parts location id numbers are the same from brand to brand as a standard. so if it's a vertical deflection issues it's gonna be a part in the 400's. if it horizontal deflection or no high voltage it's going to be a part in the 500's. unless your B+ in the power supply is gone (b+ voltage is your main voltage coming from the power supply.) if you pay attention to the numbers you will see what i'm talking about and it's helps you find the section of the board you should be working in.
Shipping companies need to be more selective who they employ. Enjoyed very much the humour and goofy voices you used, good fun!
This monitor was very poorly packaged, I don't think that was the shipping company? It is a miracle that it arrived still intact like that. I hope Adrian adds some extra padding before sending it back!
It's always great to find someone who does not believe in the mindless changing of all electrolytics on a PCB which happens all too often, it is the sign of a true engineer. 👍
I loved my 1802. It ended up with my Dad when I passed my Commodore gear on to him when I started using my Amiga and PC way back in the day. It still works. I guess I have been lucky with monitors as my Philips CM 8833 MkII also still works.
Thanks for the 8 Bit dance party Adrian. I always hated old monitors and thought LCDs were the best thing ever when they were invented but you are giving me a new appreciation of CRTs.
Love that "WGET is Not a Crime" sticker on your cabinet!
@ 39:09
Adrian: "just gonna give it a reach-around...."
Archer:"Phrasing!"
I love the workup about the air blower, talking about how things are going to end up all over the place, and then we get the most underwhelming result... but I hear you about caps, I just had to recap my entire Sony PSU that was OEM for my Sun Sparc IPX lunchbox machine. What a mess that thing made, juice everywhere!
I love this kind of video. I’ve got an old Samsung EGA monitor that has a similar collapse and I think this will give me the confidence to give repairing it a try.
I am so glad I was bored to watch another repair video. I just ordered the same esr/lcr tester and now you showed me how to use it.
Jordan's channel is criminally underwatched.
29:55 Haha i was just watching a 1950s video on how to test transistors. The first half of the video is all about visual inspection.
I worked as an automotive tech for nearly 2 decades and yes, once you verify the concern\problem with whatever you are diagnosing, a good visual inspection can save so much time. You still should always test and verify a failure before condemning the part, but just looking first can really help narrow down where to look.
You're like the happy enthusiast dad every kids want to have ^^ Thank you for this very interesting video
Be careful with this monitor and do some extra preventative maintenance before putting it away. Inside the yoke there is some of that same brown glue and it will eventually corrode through the yoke winding and cause a short which will blow the yoke and then you'll have an unusable monitor. Remove the yoke and clean off all the brown glue and hope it hasn't damaged the enamel coated wires yet. Years ago I was given an 1801 that had exactly that fault and I had to replace the yoke as it was burned black on the vertical winding. You've been warned, do nothing and the monitor will die all by itself thanks to Commodore using corrosive glue. The fault is documented on Ray Carlsen's website. Go do some reading and fix it now!
I have a similar issue with a b/w TV. I bought it at Ebay because I used that exact type on my VIC-20 in the early eighties. This video encourages me to look for the error honestly.
The original 1701/1702 were JVC TV/Monitors rebranded. Some of them, the earliest, have still a cubhole where the RF Modulator sat, and all the other have some pegs hidden under the bezel where the JVC logo was affixed.
Nice video, I love seeing restorations and since I may have to move in a bigger house, I always seek suggestions on how to pack my CRTs properly ^_^
Awesome job, Adrian! Shango066 would be proud. And I was so hoping for an electroBOOM moment, too! Hahaha!
Nice to see another CRT brought back to life.
RF adapter is called a balun (balancing unit) and while it does change the impedance, the main difference is the balanced/unbalanced thing. They do work in both directions, also.
I thought it was BALanced / UNbalanced i.e converting between a balanced input to an unbalanced input or vs. versa. Example 75 ohm UNbalanced to 300 ohm BALanced.
@@jeffm2787 "Balanced/unbalanced" is another name. The change in impedance is not the central concept here, and you can for example buy baluns that have 50 ohms impedance on both sides.
@@graealex Yes I understand, been a HAM for years and have a strong background in electronics. It's my understanding that the BALUN word came from Balanced to Unbalanced.
I actually just picked an 1802 up recently. Audio sporadic. And the video selection switch is spotty which the sound does get better when I mess with it
Nice job there, I have to admit I have done the whole troubleshooting process and not seen the obvious, as sometimes you just expect stuff to require probing and thus go straight to that, rather than just do a bit of observation first to spot anything that is out of the ordinary... :)
I think it's good to show what he would have done if a visual inspection didn't show anything. :)
Try some Deoxit F5 for Fader Control. It is specially formulated for pots and has special lubrication for the pots. Works great for this type of thing.
Deoxit D5 (the stuff in the red can) also has some solvents in it that can damage potentiometers. Xraytonyb recently made a video about this topic.
What a beautiful monitor. I am biased as that was the same monitor I had a youngster. I miss it as it is just a set I loved.
i have an 1802 made in'86. it looks white, and is larger than this one. been in wrapped in a plastic bag, and not turned on since ~2000. was part of a c128, or facelifted c64 system my father had collecting dust in a spare bedroom since the mid 90's. i boxed and bagged the whole thing up,put it in storage, but kept the monitor at home. it the only thing wrong with it at the time was the floppy open/close plastic switch was broken.it had the pc,floppy, printer, and joystick. i had it stored in the loft of a friends barn with some other childhood items. they were forgotten about, and the barn was torn down, and all my stuff was lost, but the monitor. if you want it, you can have it.
Excellent video. So true about the troubleshooting. It teaches you something every time. Glad I'm not the only one who talks to their meters 😊
Well done again Adrian :) I’ve enjoyed this repair a lot !
Great video and nice work! 😀👍
What I think happened here is that the glue turned conductive and probably contributed to that capacitors demise. You can also see the glue starting to go bad right next to that hot resistors other leg.
fairly common problem, the glue absorbs moisture from the air, i've had this and rubber wedges between the scan coils and crt also absorbing, even to state of being 'wet' and this wet seems acidic and corrodes the wire in the scan coils, in some cases destroying them!
5:41 *high* dot pitch, not low ;)
I’m working on one of these today which has a bizarre effect that I call the Aurora Commodoralis. Very dim wide diagonal bars of red, blue, and green shimmering in the middle of the display (bars are a few centimetres long) - visible for several minutes in a dark room after turning off. I’ve never seen such a thing on any CRT before 😂
43:52 I thought you had missed some spots while cleaning the screen. Turns out it is just time to clean mine.
I remember I built a power supply. the capacitor across the output was a high capacitance value (4700uF I think), but only 16 volts. The input to the voltage regulator was only 15 volts, under load, but when the load was removed, it'd float as high as 18.
I only ever used it while it was under load, but I leant it to somebody. He said that when he finished using it, and turned his machine off, the power supply made a bang sound. Yup, the capacitor inside had exploded, pretty much filled the entire box with gooey fur.
Replacing the capaitor wasn't an issue, I actually used a pair of lower capacity (2200uF?) 25V capacitors... but it took me about half an hour to clean out the remnants of the old capacitor.
So great that you were able to fix this with a part from a donor board!
This two channel is getting to the point where idk if it’s the primary or secondary one uploading videos lol.
As a person that has done repair work on equipment that has power resistors around capacitors and all I have move power resistors to a metal heatsink or the frame to keep the caps from cooking. When replacing capacitors I don't deviate to far from the capacitance value and will usually go higher on the voltage due to the factors of how some systems were designed around specs. If a system is rated to have 25v on a line you will see tight values installed of either the 25v which is not the best idea or 35v which is better but still not very good. I usually will go at least twice the voltage of what was in there. In this case I would have gone with a 50v cap just to have a good safety margin. Better to have higher voltage than be too close that a surge pops it or another component goes wacky and sends higher voltages where it was not expected taking out more down the line. Thanks for the video. Sorry for the text wall.
Gosh the innuendo, I love it
As is often the case, it's capacitors. Not always, but seems to be a common issue among old machines. Nice job!
Hey, hi Fran! @9:00
Adrian is clearly all hopped up on Gummi Bears in this one :)
Nice job. I was 99.9% sure it was a cap issue as soon as you powered it on. Was surprised you didn't change them all. Yes, the caps check good, but they are 35 years old and it's a good preventive maintenance for the future. Either way, thanks for the great content.
if the others test good, no need to change, doesnt guarantee against future failure at all, any other, maybe unobtainable part could fail, and those original caps can potentially last many more years, i have lots of old equipment and have rarely had to change any capacitors, i find relatively new(late 90s to 2010s) caps and equipment worse!
I agree. I am against replacing working parts but caps are a bit different in my experience. A lot of them can test good but still be bad. I usually recap anything I work on because I have a reputable and trusted source for good caps. Everyone’s mileage varies.
@@MikesArcadeMonitorRepair if they test good, how can they be bad??!! i usually leave alone unless obvious signs of heat problems/or near heat source, or known bad brands, or if know problem for that particular equipment (had that a good few times in the 90s), caps in long unused equipment may seem to test bad, at first, but once powered up, be ok, due to deforming with disuse,
I am referring to them testing good for now, but being 35 years old, start to fail relatively soon. I basically don't trust them is what I'm saying, especially on high-usage items. Components like resistors, poly caps, inductors, flyback, etc I will of course leave alone. I have been repairing monitors and arcade parts for 15 years and caps are just the bane of my existence. So I'm biased towards replacing them because they often go bad prematurely due to the heat inside the machines while being ran for hours on end. Just my experience and preference.
@@MikesArcadeMonitorRepair so you'd replace now, and again after another 35 years,?? then again.?! i doubt many modern ones would last as long as the originals....
At least the Postie didn't use the box as a football, unlike Mr Lurch's All-in-one package from his Saturday video. I actually bought a 1084 monitor from East Coast Australia to West coast, and I never appreciated the risks of it being damaged. The seller did a great job of protecting it and even put FRAGILE stickers all over it, and luckily it arrived intact, and I cherish it to this day. I recapped the electrolytics, now I feel silly as the old ones were likely just fine, and it never worked any better. It's a great combo with my Atari 800XL with RGB graphics adaptor.
At our computer collection we had the same problem, with a Philips monochrome monitor.
This cap has a high AC current load and therefore wears down more than others.
21:39
That was funny, ”Oh, Shut up! Who’s Beeping?!”
I didn’t think that Multimeters actually beep!
That’s cool!
Oh perfect. I have one of these that was just about to hit the bench. And the TH-cam results were lacking last week.
I only just realized that this is the second channel. I will go check out the main one after this.
The most impressive thing about this video is you know every adapter/cable by name. I would have called most of those things in the purple case “another cable thingy”
12:24 that is the coolest glitch I've ever seen in a monitor or TV
Good job Adrian.
Had a couple of 1802's for a few years. Never had as much luck with those as with the 1701 / 1702's I've had. 1 of them ended up with the vertical deflection problem this 1 has. The other had a number of cold solder joints on the main pcb which a friend at tpug did help with a few years ago. Too bad it ultimately failed again.
I never had a 1702 or 1802 monitor. I eventually had a Philips color monitor that would do 80 column mono for the 128. Forgot the model, but rigging it for Mono output was a mod I did back in 1987.
I've got a Daewoo branded composite monitor. It has a better picture than a TV but it is purely composite. It is also extremely yellow.
Nice one, Adrian. Yep - shotgunning is a viable (and on vintage electronics, some would perhaps say the _best_ ) servicing technique. But I agree with you and your diagnostic approach. For vertical centering on sets without a control (and fergitaboud changing resistors, eh?) sometimes using the purity rings to centre the image woiks. Maybe.
Apparently green (F5) , not red (D5) Deoxit should be used on carbon pots. Xraytonyb did a video on this.
Awesome video brings back memories ;) Had one just like it, but metal, back in the day, played a lot of SNES on it :) Also acted as my secondary monitor for my SE/30, that's a keeper for sure :)
It would have been a short TH-cam clip if you have just used your eyes Adrian. Glad you took us through your problem solving routine.
I've got a Daewoo 1084 with a bizarre "anti-collapse" linearity issue. The center few lines are spread out over an inch or so. Need to dig into it.
Great Video!!! I'm glad I checked your 2nd channel or I would of missed this great piece of retro history being fixed. I watch every video on your main channel and love your content so much!!! On a side note I have just bought three 1084S monitors from eBay to try and make two. One for my A1200 and the other for my C128D that I just got last week. One sold as works but the case is BAD (It showed up working like the eBay photos showed). The 2nd one is sold as is for parts only in original box with all books. Seller said it worked when he put it away 5 years ago and the case is perfect!! with no yellowing). The 3rd one is also in original box and it's case is a little bit rough and the seller shows it working if you hold in the switch after a few pushes, but turns off as soon as you let go of the switch. I have bought a four pack of their power switches (ME5A TV3 2.5/100 250V XB power switch potentiometer switch 4 Pin-4PCS/LOT) from AliExpress for $36 and free shipping. I'm hoping at least 2 or 3 work because in the reviews some have wrote that one of the four didn't work.
@Adrian's Digital Basement ][ Cif power shine is good for electronics cleaning. I don;t know if it's abaiilable in the US, but in Europe, specially in Poland and Germany you can get one with no problems. I used it to clean up trash picked CRT TV gunked up with ciggarete residue. I soeaked it wet, and alll gunk was gone in a few mins...
Just FYI, the USB to PS/2 passive mouse adaptors work on more recent peripherals: The work fine with my Asus Gaming (5 button laser) mouse that came with a i7-4720HQ powered laptop I bought in 2015.
I used to have a TV with the same issue, I had to replace the capacitor two or three times. lol :) Nice video :)
Recapping these monitors is popular for people who don't have the skill to troubleshoot these effectively. It's cheap, doable for someone with basic tools, and often effective.
I know Shango and others criticize people for doing it, but do what you can with what you have. Not everyone has a fast oscilloscope, libraries of SAMS fotofacts, and specialized test equipment necessary to repair things "properly."
'blanket' recapping is a waste, as in the video, only one faulty, and they're not always to blame anyway, you dont need oscilloscopes or expensive equipment to test them, you can get fairly cheap cap/component testers via ebay, banggood, or similar, caps to check first, are ones near anything generating heat, ones in cool areas much less likely to have gone bad, heat and ripple current are big killers of caps, and hours of use, not purely 'age'
@@andygozzo72 it’s a different story when you get into the really old televisions and radios, as most of those have the old paper capacitors which are guaranteed to be leaky, so in those cases, you practically MUST do a full recap before you can hope for it to work.
Great video - as it turns out the CRT was in such good condition, maybe it could be worth a case restoration too!
Curious how long you spent doing the board component checks, interested in how much time would have been saved by doing the visual inspection.
Awesome video Adrian! love this just get it done troubleshooting and repairs
Dear Adrian's you can use 100 w light bulb in between for a safe switching on an old TV or Monitor that you're not sure whether it work or not or there might be a risk of blowing up, it's very easy if the light bulb does comes on that means there is a problem and you should not plug it in directly until figuring out the causes, stay safe.
I usually find the 'box-within-another-box' approach the best when shipping CRT TV's/ monitors. A little like those Russian nesting dolls. Even better is the original packing materials, but that's often too much of an ask!
Here in the UK, we have a great service called Shiply who are really good with the handling of CRT's, even the large screens (28" and above).
Cool video, thanks Adrian 😊
My 1702 monitor from 1983 was made in Japan by JVC.
At 31:43 what is the molex connector to the right of your hand? I have a wells gardner 27" arcade CRT and I'm trying to find a connector the AC input. That connector looks about the same but with more pins. Cant seem to find it online.
Search for Wafer connector instead of Molex.
@@Okurka. That's totally the wrong type. Anyway wafer is not a real connector. The correct type is usually JST, Amphenol, TE Connectivity, Hirose or Molex or some other actual brand. @TheGato38 I own a Wells D9200 27" arcade CRT which is in my Taito Egret II arcade cab. If your monitor is the same model or similar, contact me directly and send a pic of the connector and I can help you to identify it. There are many many many different types of connectors and most of them look the same. Or look on mouser for cable and power connectors and you will probably find it.
@@johnbos4637 That connector is in the 1802 service manual referred to as Wafer.
Mouser also sells Wafer connectors.
@@Okurka. That doesn't help. There are at least 6 different 1802 monitors that all look slightly different and will be different internally too. But you missed the point. The guy was asking about a Wells Gardner arcade monitor made in the early 2000's, not 1986 like the Commodore 1802. Looking up a 'wafer' connector isn't going to help because the Wells monitor uses modern connectors. Like I said there are 1000's of connectors and they all look very similar on the surface and the guy obviously isn't clued up enough to see that the 1802 connector is actually noting like the Wells monitor connector. He just sees a connector and thinks it's similar. The reality is very different.
@@johnbos4637 It was the only Daewoo 1802 Service Manual.
OP asked about the "molex connector to the right of your hand"; it's that question that I answered.
Just a bit of trivia, when I was in college in the early 90s, in the library they had a video station where they had a JVC monitor that had a case that looked just like a Commodore 1701 or 1702 monitor, except it was black.
I've had a few shocks from undischarged HV caps on a monitor (a mini monitor, but still a shock), so it was a bit cringy to see you working on the monitor board without discharging the HV cap. :P
29:20 Actually, I think that is glue. What we may have here is a classic case of the glue used to hold the cap in place becoming dry, crusty, conductive and corrosive over time. I've seen that in at least two instances. One was with Terry Stewart's Classic Computers, with a diode in an IBM CGA monitor becoming corroded. The other one was with a rarity that I wasn't exactly able to save because it seemed too far gone; a power supply for a Sanyo MBC-775 XT Clone. (The kind with a color CGA CRT. The kind I got shocked with. Don't fret, though, because I got another one with it in a lot sale, and the other one worked with parts swapped!)
I may be wrong about it being glue, though, but I've seen similar gunk on perfectly-normal caps in that power supply being held down. (Although the leads got corroded in many instances.)
The 1701 (at least mine and most of which I came across) has a relatively small dot pitch.
It actually killed (sort of) my childhood TV. My first own TV was a cheap 1997 14 inch model (still cost around 500 Euros in today's money) and I watched the hell out of it (up to 4 hours a day...). Then I was given a Commodore 128 with a few games and that monitor and I was happy, but when I found out I could hook it up to my VCR and use it with the VCR as a tuner I could make this a TV and the picture was so much better than my old TV, I didn't use that one any more and after a few months I thought I'd give my old TV another go, it struggled to turn on and the picture was dim and blurry. I thought maybe it'll get better if I start using it daily again. That worked for a day or two (with the picture like it should be), the next day it was blurry and dim and then something went bang (rather unspectacularly) and it just died. But well, I had a 1701 monitor I could watch TV with and with a flick of the switch on the back I'd be off to playing video games. And it still works today and I still use it a lot (although not as a TV anymore as my daily driver is now a Philips 26 inch from 1983 with stereo sound and bass reflex speakers).
i was recently working on a Nokia phone dc charger. The optocoupler Zener diode had made PCB into black ,and it was getting so hot that the solder joints were dripping off on the plastic body!
For a long-term fix you could maybe mount that cap with some long leads and fold it away from those gnarly resistors. With some heatshrink tubing on the legs of course.
And solder wires to the big power resistor and mount it on the heatsink.
If there is space under the board you could move the power resistor „down under“ and away from the cap. It wiggled anyway when you touched it as it were cold solder joints. Never move a cap away on long Leads because of inductance effects an that cap is a power reservoir for the deflection oscillator. And long Leads defeats its porpoise of delivering power to the circuit.
As this is a low frequency circuit I doubt lead length will make a difference here. In more critical areas and particularly with ceramic/film/tantalum caps lead length should definitely be kept in mind.
What I did with a can of deoxit that had that top was remove it, and put on one from a duster can. You said the air can you have Is almost empty so you can do it with that.
Thanks for the tip!
My cousins had a 1802d model with a 64c and a 1541-ii floppy drive
Hello! excellent videos congratulations! I would like to know the part number of the flyback of the 1802 monitor in order to buy it. Unfortunately it does not appear in the schematic diagram. I would appreciate that information please!
ah, there was a trim pot right near the bad cap, r359, i wonder if it affects vertical position.
Good job! JBWeld those standoffs and retro that yellow dude! Then 3D print a new door! How you can do this great work without beer amazes me!
Ha!! I used JB Weld and glues it all back together. The monitor has now been passed on to someone locally who needed a composite monitor.
I hate bad electrolytic capacitors!!!! They also smell so bad. Great video and great repair
Oh yes, Give those pots a "Reach Around".
Good fix Adrian! Thanks for sharing it with us!💖👌👍😎JP
It can be dangerous to use a monitor on it's side. If you leave it too long, the electrons can fall out.
I’ve taken apart electronics in the past and it was not uncommon to find parts that are susceptible to breaking off if exposed to sustained vibration get anchored to the board with some type of contact cement. I’ve also seen some type of hard wax used, and my work uses epoxy in similar situations.
i remember getting these for 5 dollars at goodwill in the 90s. geat monitor for a second vhs machine.
Packing is always a challenge. In this case there was no packing on the top. But really there was not enough on any side, monitors are so dense. Imagine the box getting dropped on its top from 6 feet because that’s the reality
Yeah, I don't think people realize how packages are being treated. This packaging certainly was not up for the job.
@@stragulus tvs and monitors need at least 5 inches of soft polyurethane foam all round, not polystyrene, though, as this is far too hard and rigid (i used to work for a packaging company)