I love this episode. One of my favorites. Very informative and well explained. I enjoy all your episodes especially types like these with explanations of lighting and camera lenses. Thanks
Thanks Shawn! Glad to know the lens side is of interest to someone... this being a Gaffer-focused channel, I wasn't sure whether to include those details :)
Visual Inclination As a gaffer I actually think lenses are important and I try to find out and research ahead of time. Ex: If we are shooting on uncoated super speeds I know those will flare very easily and may be something I need to take into consideration.
As a camera op who often has to wrangle lights for my low (no) budget clients, this channel is a wonderful resource for lighting information. I believe every camera op should be intimately familiar with lighting, so they can communicate well with their gaffer, and mange the shoot when the budget doesn't provide one.
Congrats Ivan on your doc. Looks great. And thanks to you and Luke for sharing. Merry Christmas, Happy Saturnalia...or whatever lights your practicals.
Luke, this is my favorite video of them all! I'm telling everyone about your channel. Keep it coming please! Your guest host here is awesome, exactly the kind of hybrid DP/documentary gaffer that I'd love to hear from more.
Really appreciate these breakdowns, even more when they’re in a field I shoot regularly. Always enjoy seeing how other cinematographers approach docu scenarios after shooting with a very small crew for years.
Question for our guest DP. I saw that you were using the digital Sputnik for a key. In documentary situations we think a lot about getting enough output on any given key light, but we also think about portability, reliability, among other things. If you had to pick one light fixture to do this kind of higher output key lighting for interviews, what make and model would you choose and why? There are an increasing number of high output lights coming out, but some of them are quite sizable, and quite expensive (renting is always an option). I’d be curious as to what you look at and prefer in choosing a fixture for a key light. I have a number of lights that are useful for medium to medium closeups, but largely fail for wide shots like you used. I really love those establishing shots that convey so much about the subject, but which really needs a lot more time, setup, and output to pull off appropriately. I’d love to know your thoughts, thanks!
@boroc7 That's a great question! I wrote a novel here, so TL;DR is: Arri M18, DS6, or a couple of Skypanel S60 / Litepanels Gemini / Litemat S3 or 2L are all possibilities for high-ish output fixtures. I'd argue that it's more important to start with a desired ratio and a bunch of fabric, then work up based on external constraints. I really don't think the perfect single light exists... and I scale up and down depending on the space, budget, and crew available. If portability is absolutely the most important, I setup a Pelican 1500 case with 3x Westcott Flex daylight panels (with CTO gels cut to size) and a few proper tungsten bulbs (to swap in instead of the LED & CFs that are common these days). Those little panels have a surprising amount of punch for their size and can be placed anywhere. Those two things, combined with some fabrics and A-clamps can get you surprisingly far! It won't get you a super wide shot unless you get lucky with the location and really work & shape the natural light though. Larger LED panels (bigger models of Aladdin/Litemat/Westcott) are decent output in a mostly portable package... and LED is *generally* better punch per watt and can be run from battery... so those represent a decent middle-ground... but it's still tough to beat a 1.2k + HMI or equivalent. So then you're into hauling a heavy head and ballast around -- even with LEDs. And once you modify your logistics to accommodate that, you've opened up more possibilities. Whether that's an M18, or a newer LED equivalent like the Digital Sputniks (though, that's only a loose equivalent), now you've got a hard light that can pass for sunlight, or be bounced / diffused for something soft (M18 + big Chimera is such a killer combo!). In my mind, there's a lot more versatility in those units, if you can take the portability hit... easier to take away & modify light from a big source than to keep adding multiple smaller units. I use the DS6 a lot (actually a custom 6x DS1 kit), but that's just because we've owned that kit for a few years. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it right now. I get the feeling that there are a lot of very, very interesting options right around the corner. LED is totally usable as-is right now, but I think it needs to mature a bit more before it's the HMI-killer (that's another rant though). We're seeing better spectrum coverage and gel emulation from multi-chip engines (Rosco, Arri, Hive come to mind) but we've yet to see that in very high output units. Orbiter and the teased big-brother to Hive's 200-C will be a start, but still not hitting that 1.8k HMI territory. At the end of the day, it's still mostly about setup time... not the fixture itself. To pull off this "Band Geeks" scope, I helped the director-producer understand the value of what I wanted to do, then worked the schedule around enough time to make it happen. Just last week, I was running around a mountain & manufacturing facility with very heavy kit: two M18s + two 8x frames + one 6x frame and a bunch of old Mole tungstens... with only a 2-3 person crew. I just ensured that we had enough time to get all set, adjusting the shot list & client expectations. Also, I'm a glutton for punishment 😂 So there's your non-answer answer... time and skill, not any particular fixture... because they all have trade-offs. Sorry :)
@@visinc GREAT detail in your response, thank you! I'm glad you brought up the Super Hornet, as I was particularly impressed with its size/weight to output ratio, and ease of use. It's an important thing to look at with a small crew, limited time, and small spaces. Not to mention you're a young man and in 25 years if you're still doing this, your back and medical bills will care more about the weight! And yet, with all the advancement with LED tech, I still see the 1.8k HMI as the best option, though I'm trying to figure out if that's me romanticizing the quality and feel of the light. Also debating to what extent I value RGB tech in a key light--would love to know what you think about the value of that. I'm considering at some point a couple Super Hornets, paired with some LiteTiles (maybe LiteMat) and my trio of Fiilex 360s. BTW, I've studied and followed the Canadian doc film industry at length, and spent decent time at TIFF, so I just wanted to express my great respect for you and your peers' craft and dedication to the form!
@@morningtidefilms It sounds like you have a great handle on where your kit is going! I'd be cautious about mixing too many different brands of LEDs... that's one of my main regrets of our current kit, which is a hodgepodge of 6+ manufactures... and a part of my broader LED ranting ;) Everyone's idea of "white light" and colour rendering is all over the map. In my mind, that's the primary advantage of these new multi-chip light engines: at least those units can be tweaked to match the quirks of surrounding lights. And especially if you own the kit, you could save presets that better unify everything. Thanks for the kind words! I'm just a small & recent blip in the wonderful history of Canadian docs, but hopefully in 25 years, I'll have told some interesting stories in an interesting way :)
Visual Inclination no doubt you will! I would love to be making docs on Canada, it’s really the wild west here in the U.S., and we are almost exclusively commercial in all our media. It’s sad, we are quite unique in the world in that way. Since most docs get funding only after a significant portion of production has been done, most doc filmmakers like myself own our equipment outright, unless one lives in a major hub like NYC. Good point about the color science. I made this point the other day on the recent video posted about the new Fiilex high powered light. They apparently acquired the light engine from another company, which made me question why they would have different color science within their own range of fixtures. That didn’t make a lot of sense to me. I had thought of moving over to Kino Flos, but they don’t have enough variety and output to meet my specific needs. I generally light pretty simply, however, often mixing with daylight when possible, am usually swap fixtures for the needs of the day, as opposed to utilizing them all together.
Yes, I’m intrigued too. I think I would want to be on a longer form job on which the DP is game to play with the system as well. Haven’t had the opportunity yet...
I kept looking at the video and thinking that the setups were lacking something. Then it hit me. The booklight overpowered the space. To my eye, the ambience lighting seems to have the same exposure as the subject, which makes the whole set up seem flat. I think the booklight works better if you have depth to work with. Just a thought. Thanks for sharing and it was nice to see the process nevertheless.
Thanks for the constructive feedback! Yes, this was an overall lower-contrast look, and the subject:background ratio is what we set out to create -- we experimented with a higher ratio at the start, but it wasn't right for the content. The goal was to create something that was highly controlled and lit, without actually looking too "lit" or constructed. The doc is a positive piece, so going moody or dark in the environment wouldn't align with the content, and showing the character rooms was important for us. The aesthetic needed for this was lower-contrast with minimal scratch. That might not be your cup of tea, and that's totally cool -- I appreciate hearing that you would have created something different, given the same spaces, because that's was great about our craft :) For me, it's about finding the right look for each story, and then doing my best to provide a consistent tone and ratio in wildly different circumstances.
@@visinc As a DP, I totally get it! You find a look for the story and go for it! And trying to achieve the Lit without looking Lit look does take effort especially when you are not in a nice sunny kitchen. Usually I try not to comment much on people's art, because at the end of the day, that is what it is...art! Thanks for the feedback on the feedback.
@@visinc I'm guessing they didn't watch the documentary. The story determines the approach, and the producing team, director, and certainly the commissioning body can have involvement in it. It's an appropriate mood for the film and the television network. Ivan, this was a most excellent presentation of your lighting design, and I really would love to see more of your work in action. Thanks for sharing!
I love this episode. One of my favorites. Very informative and well explained. I enjoy all your episodes especially types like these with explanations of lighting and camera lenses. Thanks
Good feedback, Shawn!
Thanks Shawn! Glad to know the lens side is of interest to someone... this being a Gaffer-focused channel, I wasn't sure whether to include those details :)
Visual Inclination As a gaffer I actually think lenses are important and I try to find out and research ahead of time. Ex: If we are shooting on uncoated super speeds I know those will flare very easily and may be something I need to take into consideration.
Hi Logan, did you mean to say that you think lenses are important?
Luke Seerveld Oh gosh, yes! I think knowing lenses is very important as a gaffer. Thanks for the correction ;)
As a camera op who often has to wrangle lights for my low (no) budget clients, this channel is a wonderful resource for lighting information. I believe every camera op should be intimately familiar with lighting, so they can communicate well with their gaffer, and mange the shoot when the budget doesn't provide one.
Sound advice:)
Congrats Ivan on your doc. Looks great. And thanks to you and Luke for sharing. Merry Christmas, Happy Saturnalia...or whatever lights your practicals.
😂🎉🎄🥳
Thank you, AwesomeShot Studios!
Luke, this is my favorite video of them all! I'm telling everyone about your channel. Keep it coming please! Your guest host here is awesome, exactly the kind of hybrid DP/documentary gaffer that I'd love to hear from more.
Really appreciate these breakdowns, even more when they’re in a field I shoot regularly. Always enjoy seeing how other cinematographers approach docu scenarios after shooting with a very small crew for years.
Luke, Alan and everyone, thanks for share this............feliz navidad!!
Question for our guest DP. I saw that you were using the digital Sputnik for a key. In documentary situations we think a lot about getting enough output on any given key light, but we also think about portability, reliability, among other things. If you had to pick one light fixture to do this kind of higher output key lighting for interviews, what make and model would you choose and why? There are an increasing number of high output lights coming out, but some of them are quite sizable, and quite expensive (renting is always an option). I’d be curious as to what you look at and prefer in choosing a fixture for a key light. I have a number of lights that are useful for medium to medium closeups, but largely fail for wide shots like you used. I really love those establishing shots that convey so much about the subject, but which really needs a lot more time, setup, and output to pull off appropriately. I’d love to know your thoughts, thanks!
@boroc7 That's a great question! I wrote a novel here, so TL;DR is: Arri M18, DS6, or a couple of Skypanel S60 / Litepanels Gemini / Litemat S3 or 2L are all possibilities for high-ish output fixtures. I'd argue that it's more important to start with a desired ratio and a bunch of fabric, then work up based on external constraints.
I really don't think the perfect single light exists... and I scale up and down depending on the space, budget, and crew available. If portability is absolutely the most important, I setup a Pelican 1500 case with 3x Westcott Flex daylight panels (with CTO gels cut to size) and a few proper tungsten bulbs (to swap in instead of the LED & CFs that are common these days). Those little panels have a surprising amount of punch for their size and can be placed anywhere. Those two things, combined with some fabrics and A-clamps can get you surprisingly far! It won't get you a super wide shot unless you get lucky with the location and really work & shape the natural light though.
Larger LED panels (bigger models of Aladdin/Litemat/Westcott) are decent output in a mostly portable package... and LED is *generally* better punch per watt and can be run from battery... so those represent a decent middle-ground... but it's still tough to beat a 1.2k + HMI or equivalent.
So then you're into hauling a heavy head and ballast around -- even with LEDs. And once you modify your logistics to accommodate that, you've opened up more possibilities. Whether that's an M18, or a newer LED equivalent like the Digital Sputniks (though, that's only a loose equivalent), now you've got a hard light that can pass for sunlight, or be bounced / diffused for something soft (M18 + big Chimera is such a killer combo!). In my mind, there's a lot more versatility in those units, if you can take the portability hit... easier to take away & modify light from a big source than to keep adding multiple smaller units.
I use the DS6 a lot (actually a custom 6x DS1 kit), but that's just because we've owned that kit for a few years. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it right now. I get the feeling that there are a lot of very, very interesting options right around the corner. LED is totally usable as-is right now, but I think it needs to mature a bit more before it's the HMI-killer (that's another rant though). We're seeing better spectrum coverage and gel emulation from multi-chip engines (Rosco, Arri, Hive come to mind) but we've yet to see that in very high output units. Orbiter and the teased big-brother to Hive's 200-C will be a start, but still not hitting that 1.8k HMI territory.
At the end of the day, it's still mostly about setup time... not the fixture itself. To pull off this "Band Geeks" scope, I helped the director-producer understand the value of what I wanted to do, then worked the schedule around enough time to make it happen. Just last week, I was running around a mountain & manufacturing facility with very heavy kit: two M18s + two 8x frames + one 6x frame and a bunch of old Mole tungstens... with only a 2-3 person crew. I just ensured that we had enough time to get all set, adjusting the shot list & client expectations. Also, I'm a glutton for punishment 😂
So there's your non-answer answer... time and skill, not any particular fixture... because they all have trade-offs. Sorry :)
Love it... and totally agree.
@@visinc GREAT detail in your response, thank you! I'm glad you brought up the Super Hornet, as I was particularly impressed with its size/weight to output ratio, and ease of use. It's an important thing to look at with a small crew, limited time, and small spaces. Not to mention you're a young man and in 25 years if you're still doing this, your back and medical bills will care more about the weight! And yet, with all the advancement with LED tech, I still see the 1.8k HMI as the best option, though I'm trying to figure out if that's me romanticizing the quality and feel of the light. Also debating to what extent I value RGB tech in a key light--would love to know what you think about the value of that. I'm considering at some point a couple Super Hornets, paired with some LiteTiles (maybe LiteMat) and my trio of Fiilex 360s. BTW, I've studied and followed the Canadian doc film industry at length, and spent decent time at TIFF, so I just wanted to express my great respect for you and your peers' craft and dedication to the form!
@@morningtidefilms It sounds like you have a great handle on where your kit is going!
I'd be cautious about mixing too many different brands of LEDs... that's one of my main regrets of our current kit, which is a hodgepodge of 6+ manufactures... and a part of my broader LED ranting ;) Everyone's idea of "white light" and colour rendering is all over the map. In my mind, that's the primary advantage of these new multi-chip light engines: at least those units can be tweaked to match the quirks of surrounding lights. And especially if you own the kit, you could save presets that better unify everything.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm just a small & recent blip in the wonderful history of Canadian docs, but hopefully in 25 years, I'll have told some interesting stories in an interesting way :)
Visual Inclination no doubt you will! I would love to be making docs on Canada, it’s really the wild west here in the U.S., and we are almost exclusively commercial in all our media. It’s sad, we are quite unique in the world in that way. Since most docs get funding only after a significant portion of production has been done, most doc filmmakers like myself own our equipment outright, unless one lives in a major hub like NYC.
Good point about the color science. I made this point the other day on the recent video posted about the new Fiilex high powered light. They apparently acquired the light engine from another company, which made me question why they would have different color science within their own range of fixtures. That didn’t make a lot of sense to me. I had thought of moving over to Kino Flos, but they don’t have enough variety and output to meet my specific needs. I generally light pretty simply, however, often mixing with daylight when possible, am usually swap fixtures for the needs of the day, as opposed to utilizing them all together.
Super helpful! Right up my alley.
Great episode! Thanks!
Great video guys. Love hearing specifics on the crew size for a project like this!
Great work! I'm learning a lot!!
Thanks You, it was very helpfull seeing the way You Made difusion
Yesterday only I was asking my friend about Documentary lighting.
Thanks for uploading this on time.. 😀😃
😁
Great video, Luke... keep it coming
I see a LOT of Angenieux setups lately. Those EZ mount ones that swap mounts for full-frame are pretty killer
Another testament on, Even with a small production you can get something amazing ! Happy Holidays and to 2020 the Share year ;)
Awesome Ivan!
Merry Christmas Luke. Thank you for all you do with this TH-cam Channel.
Thank you, David! Merry Christmas to you and yours as well:)
I’d love to see an episode on Lightbridge style CRLS reflector setups. Really cool way to splash light around with fewer units!
Yes, I’m intrigued too. I think I would want to be on a longer form job on which the DP is game to play with the system as well. Haven’t had the opportunity yet...
I'm definitely going to use the book light technique on my next shoot. Thanks!
And if you are willing, report back!
Very cool idea!
Luke, more episodes like this please
Let the sharing begin!
Thanks. Very helpful.
Great 👍🏼 video
I kept looking at the video and thinking that the setups were lacking something. Then it hit me. The booklight overpowered the space. To my eye, the ambience lighting seems to have the same exposure as the subject, which makes the whole set up seem flat. I think the booklight works better if you have depth to work with. Just a thought. Thanks for sharing and it was nice to see the process nevertheless.
Good insight, Peter. Thank you for the constructive feedback.
Thanks for the constructive feedback! Yes, this was an overall lower-contrast look, and the subject:background ratio is what we set out to create -- we experimented with a higher ratio at the start, but it wasn't right for the content. The goal was to create something that was highly controlled and lit, without actually looking too "lit" or constructed. The doc is a positive piece, so going moody or dark in the environment wouldn't align with the content, and showing the character rooms was important for us. The aesthetic needed for this was lower-contrast with minimal scratch.
That might not be your cup of tea, and that's totally cool -- I appreciate hearing that you would have created something different, given the same spaces, because that's was great about our craft :) For me, it's about finding the right look for each story, and then doing my best to provide a consistent tone and ratio in wildly different circumstances.
@@visinc As a DP, I totally get it! You find a look for the story and go for it! And trying to achieve the Lit without looking Lit look does take effort especially when you are not in a nice sunny kitchen. Usually I try not to comment much on people's art, because at the end of the day, that is what it is...art! Thanks for the feedback on the feedback.
@@visinc I'm guessing they didn't watch the documentary. The story determines the approach, and the producing team, director, and certainly the commissioning body can have involvement in it. It's an appropriate mood for the film and the television network. Ivan, this was a most excellent presentation of your lighting design, and I really would love to see more of your work in action. Thanks for sharing!
@@morningtidefilms Thanks for the kind words! 👊 Definitely looking forward to doing more of these with Luke... as time allows ;)
Hi, where could i buy those e27-bulbs you are using to replace existing bulbs? Many thanks,
Good Stuff! I have always wanted to do a book light but never did because of space and lack of crew. Now I have have no excuse :)
Ha, ha... that’s right, it is your destiny!
Nice
Suddenly SeeMore is a great reference
Yes. Let's make 2020 a sharing year. 🙂
😬
Cheers
All the documentaries (just 2 okay :D) that I've shot had no lighting budget at all. But this was a nice watch.
Sure, all production is on a sliding scale from no budget to big budget... documentaries are subject to the same scale:)
Ok daft question but can I add stills images to the comments?? Got a few from a night for day shoot
I don’t think so. I’ve tried too. I believe it needs to be a link...which can be problematic.
Luke Seerveld 😭😭😭
9:39 - Isn't that 2 x DS1's = DS2?
Great Idea.
The post-roll or something else?
To bring in cinematographers to break down his project. You certainly on top of the channels I follow.
Copy. Thank you for the feedback!
huge setup with bad result. just my opinion :)
You may have made different choices, but pronouncing it bad doesn’t seem constructive. Feel free to share your work and process with us.