Why Would You do THIS to a Floor Joist?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Argh, Hope we can work around this problem! I notice more short cuts like this in 80's/90's homes than any other.
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I must say I've watch most if not all of your videos and I do like the fact you have included this episode. Life happens and it's good to see that things aren't always great.
Added some Piranha tools to the Christmas list as well!
Your channels really taking off now pal and it's deserved from all the graft you put into your work and the unique style of your videos. Much love from the UK and here's hoping for maybe some longer videos and more kit reviews in the future 😉👍🏻
Cheers man!
Thanks for posting, I learned more than if everything went to plan.
These videos have shown you to be an incredibly talented man of integrity and your success on here and in the trade is a result of that. Keep up the great work.
You're sorta helping to set a new standard that could become like a police body cam to protect both homeowners and tradesmen.
Thanks for uploading this. Not everything needs to work as planned.
Also it was an interesting perspective, that you need to be extra careful, espescially with legal stuff, as youre filming yourself.
The benefit of modernday hard ware makes this problem irrelevent and the joys of renovation makes this an everyday occurence ive done alot of homes in auckland now that have had at least a 30 ml diff in ceiling height even over a 2.3 meter span most are like waves ... hardly a radical discovery .. but you do good work pal ive seen alot of people saying your not good at what your doing i disagree with renos you can only do the best you can with what the situation allows keep up the good work bud
Too true, when I decided to do some renovations to my two story house I discovered that according to council plans it was only a one story house...
😂😂 oh no, Did you have to change it? Surely not
That's license to do pretty much whatever you like to it. Their record is clearly so out of step with the reality of it that it doesn't matter. The only true records they have are satellite and aerial photos of site coverage.
hi Scott the fact you show the good days and the bad is what draws me back ,,,i am a builder/joiner in uk and can relate to these things and i know they knock you out ya stride lol
Very true bro, part of the job
We all have them mate, well done for checking 👍🏻 oh and new post in corner but likely old concrete in corner from an old post so last person missed it out to save the hard work of digging it out 🤷🏼♂️
Well said!
All part of the day renovating older homes. We once put up a 2 by 4 support wall for the second floor, plumber proceeds to drill a 3" hole through all the studs. :^0
a 3" hole in a 2x4? I call bullshit.
harry singh its 75mm 2x4 are 90mm. So its possible to drill the hole. But whether it actually happened is questionable cause the studs couldnt hold that much weight with only 7mm of wood theoretically on either side of the hole
that's my point he cut a 3 inch hole in a 3 1/2 stud no BS :^) so we had to re-frame it @@Tecqgamming
Stuart Cairnie don’t plumbers know not to do this????
@@stupac10 hard.....especially if he was certified.
Even when your day doesn't go as planned, you still produce a great video dude.🙏🏽👏🏽😎
Ahahahaha I've been watching your videos for months as I start my own carpentry career came across this and was like 👁️👄👁️ BECAUSE AHAHAHA I've been in that house and the owners are close family friends!!!! Been there multiple times. It must be a bummer from a job perspective and something I know I'm going to lose my absolute patience over when I go into my apprenticeship seeing something built incorrectly to code standards but if it makes you feel any better it didn't impact them that much and now have a fully renovated house they managed to get the bathroom nicely done up where the walls are originally (if you weren't in the process of doing that.) also just very greatful people in general so no harm done. I think they were pretty aware of the house the brought and the amount of renovating for a house like that. ANYWAYS LOVE YOUR VIDEOS 💕👏
Coming to New Zealand to build, I recently have been on a site and a majority of the joists were notched like this from the plumber, seems to be normal practice here by the sounds of it? back in the UK the building would be condemned by the building inspector to what I've seen here lol
daniel hayes don’t bank on it. It should be but many don’t understand or even notice.
Thanks for posting this, important lessons here
Scott any upload is better than no upload. Your 5-8 minute videos seem much longer when I’m watching Altair’s interesting
That's a tricky one. Our building code allows no more than 1/6th of the joist dimension to be notched, top or bottom, unless it rests on top of a load bearing wall. Bored holes to be no ore than 1/3 of the joist dimension, minimum of 2" untouched wood above and below. Multiple bored holes no closer than 3x the largest pipe diameter.
Then of course there is the super expensive joist reinforcement brackets.
The gate looks good😎👌
What would you do? Food for thought like this is awesome. Not many like you in the Game. Huge fan, Chur🤙🏽
Hi Scott, that's the shower 'trap', not the mixer. Love the channel👍
Will remember that, cheers
A plumber did this on my place to drain from a shower trap even after I said to use the old sink drain that was there before the shower, to make it worse is he cut across the floor diagonally and notched 100mm out of 3 joists leaving 140mm joists supporting a 4.5 metre span with extra weight from internal walls.
I have now got cracks in plaster and have now put a prop in the middle of my downstairs kitchen.
G'day Scott. I'd pour a new post in the corner. Chuck a strop around the existing post by the gate and the new post and tweak it up till your gap or margin for your gate is even then shoot the new post onto the fence. You'll never end up with everything plumb and an even margin but thats just the way some muppet built it. 2nd yr Apprentice chippee.
I worry about days like this in my work as a handyman/contractor. How did you handle the money? Did you charge a day rate for running around getting and returning materials, and doing the correct investigative work so the owner knows what they are working with?
Are they just going to hire someone else who can look the other way, just because the problem is larger than anyone knew going into the project? It really does not seem fair that you would walk away without getting paid, especially when you could have taken a different job, assuming it paid at least the same, which is fair as you seem to have a ton of experience and consistent work flow.
I struggle wit this and hoping you can provide some insight.
when you quote, make sure the customer knows that the final price will depend on what needs to be done once the plaster is off the walls and ceiling and you can see what needs to be done. no renovation is simple, and theres no way to know what remediation work will need to be done until its been stripped back to studs and joists and evaluated.
Qualitity content as per usual. WHere is Padeau! Greeting from Holland
Doing his own thing, He will be back next week
@@ScottBrownCarpentry Thank for the reply. Now I can sleep in peace again knowing he is safe :) U til your next video, looking forward to it!
Bet you saw a lot of this when you were in the UK??!
Wow, first comment from the uk 🇬🇧
wow!
Isn't it kind of difficult to drive your van from the passenger seat? Or does the driver door not work so you have to crawl in from the right side all the time? Just kidding! Love your van, wish they had vans that looked like that here in the states. Great video as always!
They're called a Toyota Hiace! Would be one of the most popular tradie vehicle's down here in NZ. Can get Petrol or Diesel, Auto or Manual and they'll keep running for upwards of 500,000km!
😂😂 good van indeed
@@quinn_cooke Diesels the one. Not the petrol vans, they're gutless
It's an easy fix, at least where I am. Temporary wall to take the load, cut out ceiling. Have engineer assess and spec steel reinforcement. Bolt it in and away you go.
Here in NZ because you've altered the structural components of the house you require a building permit/consent to commence the work. Those engineer specs will form part of the consent.
When repairing the rotten floor under my toilet which had obviously been leaking for years I found the vertical pipe to the sewer line was directly in line with the bearer and perpendicular to a joist. Both were cut. The joist was cantilevered to its nearest bearer by about 2 meters so had sunk and twisted. The bearer wasn't spanning much between its piles. So fixable but why put the drain pipe in such a place, quite bizarre.
I'm working in a small apartment building, 17 units and there are 75 joist in the bottom floor, and 22 in the second floor that have been cut in to by plumbers. and thats just the damage in the floors...
Wait a minute! They HELP you load your vehicle? Nice!
Don't know where you're from, but here in Glasgow at least, at most builders merchants they usually give you a hand to load your van...in my experience anyway
In the states you're lucky if you get a thanks at the cash register. Customer service is so piss poor.
@@paulmcfadyen689 likewise in Bristol, they bring materials to your vehicle then help you load it on, why I always use builders merchants and timber yards even for small amounts, oh and the price as well.
Great vid bud. What type of mask is that? Looks comfortable compared to the plastic/rubber 3M
Ooh what a pain re the ceiling!!🤪😎
The 2 holes drilled thru the ‘middle’ of the joist shouldn’t be a problem. The joist is under tension on the bottom and compression on the top, assuming no cantilever is going on. There are practically no forces at work in the center of the joist. (A sketch would be handy here, but TH-cam comments doesn’t permit it.)
There is a definite problem where the plumber cut the top out of the joist for the trap.
Man.... What a bummer.
Hey does this mean you didn’t get paid for the day? Did they pay you to fix the gate?
Im refurbishing a house from the 1920's right now and some plumber just cut the joist clean off to get his pipe in. The floor was like a springboard and when i was under sorting it i dropped the bridle on my face and i now have a black eye.
Damn, that went from bad to worse. Hope you're ok mate
Yeah im a plumber and have done that, what can we do though? The architect usually nominates these fixtures to connect to and theres usually a joist layout that contradicts the waste layouts and shit doesnt flow up hill, you cant re-route pvc pipes alot of the time you run out of fall/gradient, the chippie should fix it after us and backcharge the architect
Hello Scott...great of you, to put this video up...!
John Lennon sings to his son:
"Life is what happens, while you're making all your plans"
Hope you get an agreement with the customer...
has to pay you, for looking...and stopping.
Bathroom on 2nd floor...is it on the plans...?
Plumbers. Can't built with them, can't build without them... [what is a shower mixer, and why is it where the drain would be?]
An old school plumber once told me it's nothing but a fancy barn until you add plumbing. My current plumber doesn't drill anything without asking if he can first. As a home renovator I try to think ahead for possible pipe locations, HVAC, and so one to limit headaches during rough inspections. New Zealand is not alone with this type of butchering by past plumbers. In the US every home older then 30 years, sometime newer, has hacked away floor joists. It's like they didnt believe in plumbers boxes until the 90s.
It’s a big problem in the U.K. too. Pipe and cable boys just drill and hack drill and hack. I’ve seen chip board flooring being supported by waste pipes because plumber hacked out top of joist but fall was wrong so sat floor back on top of pipe.
Spark from the UK here the UK plumbers can be horrendous claim they're a superior trade but know nothing about building regs regards to holes and notches in joists
the peril of the plumbers. mistaking load bearing joists for noggings..even the waste install looks a mess..
🤣🤣..lol. i know that moment @ 3:20 bro ...its like ffaarrkkk...!!
Hey would you mind making a video about how to get permits from city councils? For example on how to get a permit for installing insulation in an existing outside wall.
What information would the council need and how does the process work? Who is coming for inspection? How much does it cost?
You don't need a permit for installing insulation to exterior walls IF you do the install from the inside. If you were to remove the cladding you would then need to get council involved, and much more expensive to do so!
@@brockvuleta6836 Nope, completely wrong. The NZ Building Act specifically says installing insulation in an exterior wall requires a building consent. It reinforces the requirement in Schedule 1 which is the list of exempted work.
@@brockvuleta6836 The reason it is required is that very few people, often even builders, understand the implications and consequences of moisture with different types of insulation within different construction methods. Unfortunately "common sense" doesn't cut it when it comes to fully understanding it.
Bummer. So how do you go about fixing that sort of screw up? BTW, I'm please you uploaded this video. Cheers, David.
Leaving that to the architect/engineer
Add a steel fish plate allow 1m each side fixed with M 10 carriage bolts staggered at 300mm centres.
Heck, just reinforce the compromised floor joist with 3/8 or 1/2 inch steel on both sides of the cutout and run bolts through both pieces and tighten together. It will be there when the rest of the house falls down. Even better, use channel iron and add to the bottom of the joist and bolt as above. You would have to further relieve the bottom of the joist to allow for the sheetrock ceiling but iron/steel is infinitely stronger than sheetrock so the removal of another 1/2 inch of wood is of no consequence.
Or he could just cut the drywall on the ceiling back 3x the length of the compromised section, and then sister on new joists onto the compromised ones. It would more than hold the weight of the plumbing and then you'd be good to take out that wall you wanted to. Heck, Im just an apprentice though what do i know
Your answer is easier than mine and would work. Heck, what do I know? I am not even an apprentice.
Our house in Aus has this on some of the bearers as some posts were removed to make space some decades ago. Bearers are only 150mm or so hardwood, with two steel straps bolted through a few metres long.
Doing a Reno at the moment, and the engineer has asked for an extra support under the load bearing walls as we are removing a connecting wall between the lounge and kitchen.
Like he said, legally he can't do the work without a building consent from the council.
Which is the homeowner's responsibility and decision. Likely cost $1,800 just for the consent process. Then add engineer's calc fees on top because the plumbing needs to stay and any solution would be non-standard and require engineer to satisfy the council.
shame they didn’t use I-joists or no problem! probably a bit old for that though, wonderful bit of engineering and really easy to use
I would have just run out to the steel yard and had them cut me some 1/4" plate and reinforced the sides. Adds about two hours to the job including travel. You've got some crazy codes over there if a pipe through a joist shuts the whole job down.
We aren't engineers mate. Our license is our meal ticket and structural changes in an earthquake prone country are not taken lightly.
OMG...you use a folding ruler. Don't they sell measuring tapes tapes there?
I’ve been there brother.
Hi scott, I appreciate your videos! What is the mask you are wearing in this video. I want to be wearing a mask more to prevent inhaling hazardous dust but hate wearing the full respirator. Do you recommend that one for just everyday sawdust, etc.? Thanks!
Scotty are you taking love calls on the job?
part of the job is dealing with frustration
Very true.
Why did you multi tool with a vacuum then smash f*** out of it getting it every where
the fine dust from the mtool
Why is the gate support thing going from top left down to bottom right, wouldn't you want to pull the bottom left of the gate up to the top right corner where the hinge is?
No. Bracing back down to the bottom hinge, closest to the ground, where there is the least movement is correct. Unfortunately gravity always wins.
A better way to do this is to eliminate the wooden brace and brace it diagonally with steel all-thread with an adjustable turnbuckle in the center to make fine adjustments in the future, as needed. The wood deteriorates over time and you’re constantly working against gravity so future adjustments should be anticipated.
So you discovered that plumbers are not carpenters? At my house, aside from boring holes through the joists, the plumber didn't know that his skilsaw had a depth-of-cut adjustment feature that could be set for the thickness of the subfloor. He reduced the 2x12 joists to 2x10, and then placed the cast iron bathtub on top. That idiocy cost him a substantial amount of corrective work.
You should come see the strange stuff in my capetown roof
Damn plumbers!!
If the owner is like most Kiwis I've met they'll just replaster the ceiling and pretend they know nothing.
First
Wow, wonder who did that to the joist. And whether there could be any repurcussions.
Maybe Paerau did it just to fuck with Scott?
@@TakamiWoodshop lmao
Why not fix it? Client diddnt want it corrected?
Genuine question as a plumber.. I'm from the UK so might change the answers but how much of a floor joist can you notch out for pipes? See it all the time with sparks drilling holes through for cables etc but is there a rule of thumb of the amount you can notch out etc
i believe 1/4 max
Yes, there are exact rules. See here for example www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/Notching_joist.htm . Spend a little time to get to know them, really not complicated once you take some time to understand it, and you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you're doing it right. (Actually, I'm pretty amazed a plumber could not know this. Plumbing isn't just about pipes; the structural integrity of the house is still an important part of it).
What type of licence do you have @ScottBrownCarpentry?
Id put a diagonal brace
Do you have a video of doing this job?
When the plumber cut so much out of that timber it was not a big deal because there were the walls supporting it. Plus it must have passed the plumbing inspection. Be that as it may plumbers are notorious for over cutting floor joists, and really all kinds of structural lumber. I was disappointed you did not show what you did about the problem. Maybe that was another episode or maybe the owner did not want to pay to get it fixed. Most houses are overbuilt anyway. I don't know how you are supposed to deal with something that is wrong when the owner does not care.
#whynot!? awesome :)
Hey from the uk mate love the uploads got to ask were did you get your big site light from??
Thanks mate, I got lucky with that one. I was working on an art gallery and they were throwing them out
Typical right place right time anyway mate keep up the good work 👍👍
Someone far less competent than you are Scott is the answer to "who built this" or as we'd call them a cowboy builder.
@Mike Funk I don't understand your comment, I was saying the person who originally built the fence was less component than Scott as they had not bothered with putting in a post. I never claimed to have built a house. Do some pretty advance DIY remodeling on my own house but I'm a DIY'er not a professional, and never claimed to be.
But I would always support my work well like the fence I built out of 145x47mm treated lumber using 120mm square posts, it's not going anywhere and is well supported.
competent?
@@timlawrencefit probably, extremely dyslexic and spell check doesn't always seem to work.
@@timlawrencefit think I have corrected it now.
tbh coming from a fencer there should be 2 posts on the side of each panel
the weight of the gate counter balance adjacent fence section, no need for second post in the corner )
What boots are those look comfy
John Bull, NZ brand I think
Ugh... Erry time! They shouldn't be allowed to modify anything they don't understand (standards are there for a reason). Or at least be back charged for repairs! It's amazing the things that can be slipped by an inept project manager though 😂
why would you not have those types of potential problems covered in your quote? strip all the plaster from the rooms, point out to the customer where the added structure needs to be incorporated. adjust price, fix the problem, do reno, get paid. everyone is happy.
Why do kittens require milk?
Plumbers are the worst, they will cut and drill every loadbearing wall, beam, floor joist without even thinking about it.
What kind of vacuum is that you are using? Thanks!
Festool Midi
Oh yeah original plans change hahah
Hiya Scott which dust mask do you use?
RZ mask Sam 👍
Everyone has an off day
Check out Metwood Joist Reinforcers www.metwood.com
They allow up to 4" holes in 2x8s, 6" holes in 2x10s and 2x12s
1 hole per joist only allowed.
They are engineered and or code approved.
Just stick a decent lintel in what's the difference
Typical plumber, they destroy so much structural stuff because they have no idea., see it all the time, electricians also do a lot of damage but plumbers are the worst.
What kind of mask do you use?
RZ mask
👍👍👍👍
Posi joists.
All the plasterboard fixing you do and you don't have a collated screw gun
I do have a Makita one but it is really unreliable
@@ScottBrownCarpentry I've had mine for around 6-7 years and it's still good
Hey bro where do you get your dust mask and ear muffs from ??
Seriously... wow.. cant believe the idiot builder who ran that job to allow that to happen... frkn eggs...
you should've worn a helmet when cutting out that plaster
Are you a carpenter or a mason get rid of the folding stick and get a real tape measure lol