Line breed, out cross, whatever way you breed, you have to be selective of your breeding stock. An outcross or cross bred will add variation, which can be good or bad depending on how you cull or select future breeders. But you really do not have anything other than just a chicken unless they breed consistently with type and colour and so forth. Test crosses are just that, it might work, or you scrap that whole cross.
@@GlynisDance The gold nuggets in these videos come in the in-between comments. Kenny hammers his main theme, but don't mistake yourself, he is nuanced when appropriate.
I agree, but it’s only an introductory into Breeding. If you join the Breeders Academy, I can show you how to use those breeding methods into a proper breeding program.
It is a bit political, but I do have a mentor, who has won many shows with our breed. I should be honest, the breed is Partridge Chanteclers. They were really rare, with so much outside blood that we are cleaning up. We are working on my distinct line. My mentor has a closed flock that is fantastic, but still many of the birds come from the same small flocks. My foundation birds are related to his twelve years ago. The challenge for us is that production qualities rank high for most interested in the breed, so looks are not the only thing. In any case, I felt that you were hard line on in breeding at first, but then, as I watched your videos, I realized that you are open minded with the right qualifications on how to add new birds in the right way, we call it side mating. New birds have to prove themselves by their offspring. Or they do not make it to the main breeding program. I are not to afraid to try an outcross, but I realize that generation F2 might produce major variation, but I cull hard and keep only those who meet the standard if any. For those who do not have a mentor, please do look to Kenny who is an experienced breeder, and I think his program extends far beyond game fowl, because the principals are the same! You as a breeder have got to make up your mind what you want to go after. Kenny can help with that!
I should add to my comments that I breed Partridge Chanteclers, but the similarity to the game birds in what Kenny describes, is evident. In my world many of the Partridge Chanteclers are production bred birds, they are great birds, but often they do not fit close to the APA standard. They are good birds and provide lots of meat and eggs, but do not fit closely to the standard. As crazy as it sounds, I would like birds that can do well at a show and also provide good production qualities. I think it will take four or five years, but I am ok with that. I crossed the same cock with the same group of hens 3 times, and the first two crosses were disappointing, but the third cross was great, only two birds were cut from my program. The first two crosses were sold to barn yard flocks. The F2 generation will be interesting, but that is what it takes to make the birds what you want them to be. It can be achieved! Study the standard, Kenny has one, Tony S has one, or go to the APA if it applies to your breed as does mine. The game bird world has the same wishy washy factor as the Partridge Chantecler, lots of production breeders, but very few that breed to a standard. I believe you can have both, supper hardy and full of vigour, and still look great and uniform! I had BB Reds as a boy, they were a lot of fun!
Hi Kenny I’m new to breeding. I almost quit after I kept having girls die after only a few years. Sometimes even younger after starting out strong, spunky and healthy. After working myself into a state of mental and emotional exhaustion, I kept seeing that my few pure breeds were my healthiest birds, and that the short lived ones were all daughters of various breeds but with my NH Red roo. That’s when it hit me it might just be that I’m creating hybrids! And I started thinking of getting a pure breed line going. I’m planning to merge my current group into a colored egger flock and I think I’m leaning toward buckeyes as a pure breed to work with. Do you ever talk about breeding a colored egger flock? Would they basically be mongrels?
Kenny I find your podcast very interesting, I breed performing pigeons and I would like to know if these breeding method can be applied to my birds . I would like to join but can I some how contact you to ask some quick questions?
I have a number of pigeon breeders in the Academy. I would suggest that you join and check it out. if you don't like it, I can give you a refund within the first 30 days. Then we can do a coaching call.
my one issue here is the cross-breeding. most modern breeds are crosses of other breeds, bred to breed true... americauna, legbar, wyandotte, buckeye, etc.
Kenny, I have been listening to you, everything that you are saying is so true I am guilty of these mistakes, I new something was and there had to be a way to fix these mistakes, I am going to join.l see you are person that can help, Thank you
Yes it is inbreeding brother sister mating is to set the genetics you will learn all of your defects if any during this first breeding the way you breed this is breed a brother sister pick the best stag and best pullet out of this breeding now you take this stag and put over the hen and the pullet over the cock this will give you 2 lines of those genetics your looking to preserve its inbreeding then line breeding you will have to cull hard and breed the best. now nobody can exactly tell you which are the best that's open to suggestion and your vision of what your wanting out of the birds maybe your wanting high station maybe a certain color gameness speed power there's alot that goes in but keep the vision you want for your fowl and breed toward what you want them to be and don't be afraid to cull remember it cost the same to feed good birds as it does bad ones.
In the strict sense of the word inbreeding is the mating of individuals whose genotypes are more alike than expected by chance. Mating half sibs is certainly inbreeding, since they share a parent in common. Also, it is worth noting that linebreeding and backcrossing are just particular types of inbreeding (and backcrossing is a particular form of linebreeding!). If this means anything to you, the half-sibs will inherit the exact same alleles from the common parent 12.5% of the time (i.e. 12.5% of their genes will be homozygous due to being identical by descent from the common parent). The degree of homozygosity may well be higher though, if parents share alleles just by chance (e.g. because they are common or fixed in that particular breed). 12.5% is considered a fairly high degree of inbreeding, but keep in mind that inbreeding is cumulative, so if the offspring were bred back to a relative, the inbreeding coefficient increases, according to the closeness of that relative.
Very good. Thank you
Line breed, out cross, whatever way you breed, you have to be selective of your breeding stock. An outcross or cross bred will add variation, which can be good or bad depending on how you cull or select future breeders. But you really do not have anything other than just a chicken unless they breed consistently with type and colour and so forth. Test crosses are just that, it might work, or you scrap that whole cross.
That's a very good point. There is no point in breeding without selection (although I think this gets mentioned somewhat in the video).
@@GlynisDance The gold nuggets in these videos come in the in-between comments. Kenny hammers his main theme, but don't mistake yourself, he is nuanced when appropriate.
Great show! I am watching for the second time!
I agree, but it’s only an introductory into Breeding. If you join the Breeders Academy, I can show you how to use those breeding methods into a proper breeding program.
@@KennyTroiano
It is a bit political, but I do have a mentor, who has won many shows with our breed. I should be honest, the breed is Partridge Chanteclers. They were really rare, with so much outside blood that we are cleaning up. We are working on my distinct line. My mentor has a closed flock that is fantastic, but still many of the birds come from the same small flocks. My foundation birds are related to his twelve years ago. The challenge for us is that production qualities rank high for most interested in the breed, so looks are not the only thing. In any case, I felt that you were hard line on in breeding at first, but then, as I watched your videos, I realized that you are open minded with the right qualifications on how to add new birds in the right way, we call it side mating. New birds have to prove themselves by their offspring. Or they do not make it to the main breeding program. I are not to afraid to try an outcross, but I realize that generation F2 might produce major variation, but I cull hard and keep only those who meet the standard if any. For those who do not have a mentor, please do look to Kenny who is an experienced breeder, and I think his program extends far beyond game fowl, because the principals are the same! You as a breeder have got to make up your mind what you want to go after. Kenny can help with that!
I should add to my comments that I breed Partridge Chanteclers, but the similarity to the game birds in what Kenny describes, is evident. In my world many of the Partridge Chanteclers are production bred birds, they are great birds, but often they do not fit close to the APA standard. They are good birds and provide lots of meat and eggs, but do not fit closely to the standard. As crazy as it sounds, I would like birds that can do well at a show and also provide good production qualities. I think it will take four or five years, but I am ok with that. I crossed the same cock with the same group of hens 3 times, and the first two crosses were disappointing, but the third cross was great, only two birds were cut from my program. The first two crosses were sold to barn yard flocks. The F2 generation will be interesting, but that is what it takes to make the birds what you want them to be. It can be achieved! Study the standard, Kenny has one, Tony S has one, or go to the APA if it applies to your breed as does mine. The game bird world has the same wishy washy factor as the Partridge Chantecler, lots of production breeders, but very few that breed to a standard. I believe you can have both, supper hardy and full of vigour, and still look great and uniform! I had BB Reds as a boy, they were a lot of fun!
Very useful information
Hi Kenny I’m new to breeding. I almost quit after I kept having girls die after only a few years. Sometimes even younger after starting out strong, spunky and healthy.
After working myself into a state of mental and emotional exhaustion, I kept seeing that my few pure breeds were my healthiest birds, and that the short lived ones were all daughters of various breeds but with my NH Red roo.
That’s when it hit me it might just be that I’m creating hybrids!
And I started thinking of getting a pure breed line going.
I’m planning to merge my current group into a colored egger flock and I think I’m leaning toward buckeyes as a pure breed to work with.
Do you ever talk about breeding a colored egger flock?
Would they basically be mongrels?
I have that same question too.
Kenny I find your podcast very interesting, I breed performing pigeons and I would like to know if these breeding method can be applied to my birds . I would like to join but can I some how contact you to ask some quick questions?
I have a number of pigeon breeders in the Academy. I would suggest that you join and check it out. if you don't like it, I can give you a refund within the first 30 days. Then we can do a coaching call.
@@KennyTroiano sounds good
this is really interesting thanks man!
my one issue here is the cross-breeding. most modern breeds are crosses of other breeds, bred to breed true... americauna, legbar, wyandotte, buckeye, etc.
Good pod cast, can I get the contact information for the redquill breeder?
Kenny, I have been listening to you, everything that you are saying is so true I am guilty of these mistakes, I new something was and there had to be a way to fix these mistakes, I am going to join.l see you are person that can help, Thank you
You are welcome, Jim!
@@KennyTroiano I can't wait to pick your brain, I have been into this for many years,
If you mate a brother and a half-sister ,would that still be inbreeding ?
Yes it is inbreeding brother sister mating is to set the genetics you will learn all of your defects if any during this first breeding the way you breed this is breed a brother sister pick the best stag and best pullet out of this breeding now you take this stag and put over the hen and the pullet over the cock this will give you 2 lines of those genetics your looking to preserve its inbreeding then line breeding you will have to cull hard and breed the best. now nobody can exactly tell you which are the best that's open to suggestion and your vision of what your wanting out of the birds maybe your wanting high station maybe a certain color gameness speed power there's alot that goes in but keep the vision you want for your fowl and breed toward what you want them to be and don't be afraid to cull remember it cost the same to feed good birds as it does bad ones.
Half siblings is line breeding
In the strict sense of the word inbreeding is the mating of individuals whose genotypes are more alike than expected by chance. Mating half sibs is certainly inbreeding, since they share a parent in common. Also, it is worth noting that linebreeding and backcrossing are just particular types of inbreeding (and backcrossing is a particular form of linebreeding!).
If this means anything to you, the half-sibs will inherit the exact same alleles from the common parent 12.5% of the time (i.e. 12.5% of their genes will be homozygous due to being identical by descent from the common parent). The degree of homozygosity may well be higher though, if parents share alleles just by chance (e.g. because they are common or fixed in that particular breed). 12.5% is considered a fairly high degree of inbreeding, but keep in mind that inbreeding is cumulative, so if the offspring were bred back to a relative, the inbreeding coefficient increases, according to the closeness of that relative.
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