Wondering How To Send Reverb To Monitors? Behringer X32 XR18 - M32 MR18 - FX To Mons How To Guide
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- 'How to' guide for sending effects (FX / reverb) to monitors for the X32 & XR18 consoles from Behringer & the Midas M32 and MR18. With more and more musicians now using in ear monitors (IEMs), the demand for reverb and other FX on their microphone and in their monitor mixes is growing.
The detail level of an in ear monitor mix is high, and distracting ambient sounds are much more controlled. Therefore, musicians are more likely to notice undesired changes in the mix, as well as appreciate the spaciousness and studio quality that reverb can bring to a monitor mix. But with the isolation and detail of live in ear monitor mix, there comes little margin of error for the engineer. Understanding how to give the musicians reverb, when requested, and the options and things to look out for, can be a big help in making for a solid performance for everyone. The crowd, the performers, and the engineer(s).
This information is pertinent for live wedges or IEMs. In fact, although the examples are demonstrated on the Behringer X32 and XR18 digital mixing platform, the methods are the same for any audio console.
Summary: This video is a live sound reinforcement tutorial focusing on the routing of effects to monitors for live audio mixing.
Behringer/Midas scene files (.scn) from this video are available for download by Patrons on the Patreon Page.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Patreon-
Script files, other written (PDF) tutorials and graphs, and X32/M32 XR18/MR18 scene and channel library files are available for download by Patrons as well.
Patreon Page Link:
/ alanhamiltonaudio
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amazon Affiliate Links To Equip Used/Mentioned In Video-
Behringer XR18 on Amazon:
amzn.to/2LfTpmO
Behringer X32 on Amazon:
amzn.to/35oCcyo
KZ ZS10 Pro earpieces on Amazon:
amzn.to/37Q8mnJ
Behringer Powerplay P1 Personal In-ear Monitor Amplifier on Amazon:
amzn.to/3bNZiRu
Shure SM58 on Amazon:
amzn.to/3bcxKF4
Shure Beta57A on Amazon:
amzn.to/3i1vg14
Stellar XT (Narration) Mic on Amazon:
amzn.to/38xE7Tr
~~~~~~
Suggested videos:
Five Tips For Better Live Vocal Mixes:
• 5 Tips For Better Live...
Behringer X32 Monitor Setup Tutorial:
• Behringer X32 & Midas ...
Behringer XR18 Monitor Setup Tutorial:
• Behringer XR18 Monitor...
5 Typical Mistakes Behringer X32 and Midas M32 Users Make:
• 5 Typical Mistakes Mad...
5 Typical Mistakes Behringer XR18 and Midas MR18 Users Make:
• Five Typical Mistakes ...
X32/M32 Monitor Mixing Tutorial Playlist:
• X32 / M32 Monitor Mixi...
Drum Mixing Playlist:
• Drum Mixing Videos
~~~~~~
0:00 Intro
0:09 Scenes
1:18 FX Setup
1:52 Shared FX Setup
2:12 Mons From FOH Scene
5:19 Dedicated FX Setup
7:34 IEMS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Facebook Group:
/ livesoundproduction
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#LiveSound
#BehringerX32
#MidasM32
#AlanHamiltonAudio
"As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases."
There are always a lot of questions on Behringer sites about routing the FX to monitors, so I decided to make this the subject of the most recent video. With gigs coming back and IEMs getting more and more popular, this is a topic that's going to be around for a while I imagine. It's not that reverb was and is never used in wedges, but it has not been requested nearly as much as it is for IEMs. As always feel free to ask any questions and to share the video link!
Patreon Page Link:
www.patreon.com/AlanHamiltonAudio
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amazon Affiliate Links:
Behringer XR18 on Amazon:
amzn.to/2LfTpmO
Behringer X32 on Amazon:
amzn.to/35oCcyo
KZ ZS10 Pro earpieces on Amazon:
amzn.to/37Q8mnJ
Behringer Powerplay P1 Personal In-ear Monitor Amplifier on Amazon:
amzn.to/3bNZiRu
Shure SM58 on Amazon:
amzn.to/3bcxKF4
Shure Beta57A on Amazon:
amzn.to/3i1vg14
Stellar XT (Narration) Mic on Amazon:
amzn.to/38xE7Tr
~~~~~~
Suggested videos:
Five Tips For Better Live Vocal Mixes:
th-cam.com/video/oP4sdpkkNhY/w-d-xo.html
Behringer X32 Monitor Setup Tutorial:
th-cam.com/video/Vz9E6FaCatQ/w-d-xo.html
Behringer XR18 Monitor Setup Tutorial:
th-cam.com/video/5gzsEErKdb8/w-d-xo.html
5 Typical Mistakes Behringer X32 and Midas M32 Users Make:
th-cam.com/video/tP7dO2Za6bw/w-d-xo.html
5 Typical Mistakes Behringer XR18 and Midas MR18 Users Make:
th-cam.com/video/EilVDp39A9g/w-d-xo.html
X32/M32 Monitor Mixing Tutorial Playlist:
th-cam.com/play/PLWtgwSNlxTjOcSjRK6m0JpvFQHABktu7O.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Facebook Group:
facebook.com/groups/livesoundproduction
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases."
Yeah I was about to comment, one FX could be sent to FOH and another one to MONITORS. This is exactly what I was thinking as I was watching the video. These videos are super helpful!
Thanks! Yes, there was a lot to cover and I wanted to make sure and cover the signal flow aspects of how it was all working enough so people could expand on the concepts for whatever circumstances they find themselves in.
@Jose Depaz
That is how I have my X32 configured
Excellent video !
I just realized recently that sharing FX for FOH and MON was a bit tricky and there are things to know about that :)
Excellent video on monitor sends. I love that you show the XR18 and x32 systems.
Thanks!
I've been used to using full desks up until this year and had to downsize to the XR18 for portability. Love these Behringer tutorials, they are much appreciated!
Thanks for watching!
0:00 Intro
0:09 Scenes
1:18 FX Setup
1:52 Shared FX Setup
2:12 Mons From FOH Scene
5:19 Dedicated FX Setup
7:34 IEMS
Love your channel, so helpful. Thanks
You are so welcome!
Great work
Thanks!!
Next day I will streaming for graduation ceremony with behringer x air 12. I uses LR for on site speaker, aux for OBS(stream to TH-cam), aux 2 to zoom. There's 4 effect and I use 1 of them for every output.
Neat, Thahmk you very much, will try that.
Cool, you saw the I'd posted this. I was just getting ready to post the link to this on your comment at the other video! :)
Even though it still not working for me, still getting the clean audio from my mic into OBS and vMix.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Yup, got the notification, but as I said, still get clean audio on the USB returns I put into OBS and vMix., man this really bugs me
@@TikAcademy It has to be a matter of setting one of the USB Outs to the bus that your reverb is feeding. So, like in this video, where the FX2 level gets turned up on the mic, then go to the reverb return for FX2 and I go to Bus 1 (setup as pre-fader) and turn that send #1 up (and you might as well just put both the FX2 send on the channel to unity, and the Bus 1 send on the FX2 Return to unity for testing... you can tweak the levels later... for now it's just about getting it working).
So then in your In/Out routing, USB outs/sends, you'd need to make sure that Bus1 was feeding USB1 (or whatever USB output/input combination you want it coming into your computer on).
Although, that's assuming all of your tracks are coming in individually.
If you just have the default 1-2 USB input to OSB, then the XR18 just needs to have its USB outs (USB1 and USB2) set to L-R. ...And the reverb in it's normal default configuration.
But I thought you said you have 16 individual tracks returning from the XR18.
@@TikAcademy I suppose for testing things you could save your XR18 scene, then reinitialize it and start with a baseline setting. Skip Vmix for the moment, and just try OBS, and follow this setup:
th-cam.com/video/aNlBOOhWbZw/w-d-xo.html
Maybe see if you can get the reverb working in the basic setup and remove some variables, and hopefully have a baseline where you know it's working... and maybe try and then go back to see where the wheels are coming off as you add variables.
It has to be something in the routing, or how you're using the reverb, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the XR where the problem is I guess. Or is alone. You could email me your scene and I could look at it, but it may be the other variables where things are going wrong, so no guarantee that I would see the problem without the big picture. And I don't have vMix.
I like your videos. I have a very large drum set. Each drum is Mic'd with Audix mics corresponding to each snare, toms, gong and kicks plus 2 condencing overhead and 2 cond on hh and ride bell. Every instrument has its own channels. I'm using a Behringer XR18 Air. When trying to add an effect to the snare, let's say reverb and or delay or both. I get effects bleeding over to all other mics. I would think this may be fixed by gating them? Although when doing so, I loss volume. What do you recommend?
First, have you watched this video to make sure you have the FX setup and routed properly: th-cam.com/video/TV5ClH_MWrU/w-d-xo.html
Once you're sure that part is correct, the only thing I can think of is your other drums are just being heard loud enough by the snare mic that you hear the effect from the snare mic. The thing is, that's usually acceptable... especially live... because the Effect isn't so loud in the first place, that a tom or other drum bleeding into the snare mic would be loud enough to actually make the effect so loud to be noticeable with the full kit or full band. Especially for reverb and the like. I could see delay maybe being worse than reverb, but also delay is pretty rare as a drum effect live, so it's not like that would be a problem beyond a special song or two and that could be sorted out by just not using that effect, or dialing it back and finding a happy medium.
Yes, you could use gates on the drum mics to help with this. Any mic whose gate doesn't open cannot add any FX that are dialed into that mic if the FX routing is correct.
And you can use filters on the gates so like it takes something like 60Hz to open the kick mic... so the cymbals can't open the mic... Or 100hz on a high tom. 80Hz on a floor tom. Or settings in that ballpark. Using the filters lets you gate lighter, but still gate effectively.
But that said, it gets trickier gating the snare. Especially if you use a lot of ghost strokes and dynamics. The principals are the same, but it's harder to keep a hat or high tom from opening a snare gate since the snare overlaps with other drums and instruments, and you need a threshold that allows you to open the snare gate for those ghost strokes and lighter hits. Of course if it's 100MPH and full arm unloads on 2 and 4 all night, then it's a lot easier to gate a snare for that. And as long as the gate is closed, no FX on a channel can come thru... unless the FX Sends are tapped at a point BEFORE the gate. By default they are not. I'd to have to look to see if you can even tap an FX Send before the gate by accident. I'm sure INPUT would do it... I don't recall if PRE EQ is before the gate or not. But this goes back to the video I linked above... the normal channel FX Send would be POST FADER, and that would eliminate my sidetrack thought here.
I might need to re-watch this a few times to fully grasp the reverb bleed or how to deal with it... Were you saying there's no way to send a single reverb type for one channel to multiple monitor busses without it bleeding?
My current band uses 3 sets of busses in stereo for IEM mixing. We'd really like to have reverb on my vocals in our busses but not sent to FOH. If the only way to do this is to set up a reverb for every single bus, and we're using 6 total buses (3 sets of 2), does that imply I won't have enough effects for 3 stereo bus pairs?
An individual reverb will funnel its signal into its reverb return channel. ANYTHING sent to the reverb will therefore be in that return channel. To then send the reverb onto an ear mix, you have to do it from the reverb return channel... so all things sent to that reverb WILL be in that return and thus go to any mix you send it to,
If you only send one thing to that reverb, then there's nothing to bleed... but otherwise, it'll always have bleed. 1 vocal to 1 mon mix... with 1 reverb. No bleed.
That's not just an X32/XR18 thing... that's just the way this works and has always worked in production.
Love your videos, Alan. My problem is I'm using a dual stereo mix bus as a send to our video livestream, and I can't figure out how to add a teeny bit of reverb to the whole Bus to add a little flavor since it lacks the room echo. Any tip there?
Are you on the X32/M32 or X-Air?
And to make sure I understand you, you want to add a little reverb, of its own, overall, to the stream mix... versus just adding some of the house reverbs to the stream as well?
It's pretty easy to send the same reverb (for example) that you have on the vocals to the stream, it gets a little more complicated to have an overall reverb added to the stream mix.
@@AlanHamiltonAudioYou are amazing to respond. Sorry, yes, X32. We are a small church, and I'm the lone pastor/tech person. :) I only have a little reverb on the two main singer inputs. So yes, for the Bus 5&6 which I have routed to AuxOut5&6 heading to my livestream, I'd like to add a little Reverb to the overall stream to give it a richer live sound mimicking the sanctuary reverb. (I have, btw, added a Precision Limiter successfully as an Insert on FX8.) Maybe this is a bad idea. I do have a little bit of the communion table mic pre-fader into the mix as makeshift audience mic, and maybe I should instead concentrate on a room mic for richer sound. 🤷♂️
As I think about it, I'm not using FX4 slot, so maybe the best solution is to add my desired reverb to FX4, take the Main L/R out of its send and add my stream bus, and then put most or all of my inputs into FX4 to get the effect?
@@jweaks IF Behringer put a mix control on their reverbs in the X32, then it would be simple to use one FX rack slot for a reverb, and INSERT it on the stereo stream bus... then just use the balance control to wetten the stream until you're happy. But... that option isn't available. It's full wet only...
I think the only thing you can really do is dedicate a reverb in your rack to the stream. UNASSIGN the FX Return for it from L-R. You can now send a unity mix on every channel on that FX send (IOW, each channel has that FX Send at 0dB/Unity. Then on the FX return, just bring up Bus/Send 5 and 6 while you listen to your stream to bring up only the amount of reverb you want.
It will be a balance, because you might prefer it further back in the mix, but bigger/longer decay. Or you might want it shorter, but louder. Or vice versa.
I'd probably set it between 1.5sec and 2.0 sec delay and just bring up the 5/6 send in the stream FX return until you notice it. The make a decision on whether that's good, or you want the decay longer or shorter.
You probably already know, there can be a fine line between tasteful, to in a canyon! ;)
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks so much for that confirmation. I'll give it a go next week.
Thanks for the video!
Perhaps this is a dumb question - but if you were using the XR18 as dedicated IEM mixer, how would you output to another FOH mixer?
I have this exact use case for our on-stage IEM, but I need the individual channels on XLR outs; I can't count on FOH to support AES50 or something like that, which the XR18 doesn't support anyway.
I've been looking for some time, but haven't found an affordable rack-mounted solution yet that doesn't involve abusing Ultranet, which comes with its own disadvantages.
Analog Splitter. There are a few options of which way to go as far as the analog splitter style, but the gist of it is always basically the same. I've been planning a video just talking about splitters, but I do have this video that shows how to build a dedicated monitor rig around the XR18 using an analog split:
th-cam.com/video/xT9gTBFxvZk/w-d-xo.html
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I’d watched your IEM rack video before (and probably should’ve commented there). But I ran into some issues with the XLR splitter approach:
1) Any FX applied on the XR18, such as reverb on vocals, won’t reach FOH.
2) I cannot use the XR18 as USB audio interface for our DAW, which runs playback tracks and virtual instruments.
3) Some instruments are unbalanced TRS, and I haven't found an analog splitter with combo jacks. Suppose I could add a DI box for this.
As mentioned I then considered using Ultranet to output to FOH, but that seems like a total hack and would likely share some of the problems above.
Again thanks for your videos and individual feedback. I'll be sure to check out your Patreon later.
@@maxw.704 I'm not sure exactly your exact situation but I can go over some typical/standard applications and best practices which might help with decisions, or give you something to think about to let you throw some additional ideas into the mix.
Number 1 on your list isn't normally a problem with a dedicated monitor console because you don't normally want to send FX to FOH. One of the benefits of a dedicated monitor console is that your FX are 100% dedicated to monitors and none have to be shared with FOH and FOH settings. Meanwhile, FOH doesn't usually want your FX settings anyway... they will have their own that they can base on the room and music needs and not be stuck with something sent from the stage (that they'll have little control over and might not even be right for the room/musician in the house anyway). Plus, the changes that they might want for the house might not be something that works for the musicians and their IEMs/monitors. The FOH engineer doesn't want 'baked in', no control FX and to take FX sends from stage would be exactly that. If there are specific cues, a songlist and cue sheet is generally sufficient.
I'll skip number 2 for the moment and go onto number 3. Best practice and normal practice is to use a DI (or multiple DIs). Especially once you're into the realm of carrying a dedicated mon rig and splitting to a FOH console (whether your own FOH console or a provided house rig).
For one thing, carrying a dedicated monitor rig implies bigger stages and also the addition of a FOH console. Which means a long multipair snake cable added into the equipment mix as well (which would be part of a provided rig). And you also need your instrument cables to reach. While you can get away with 20'... 25'... maybe even 30' instrument cables and connecting directly to the mixer onstage and not gather too much noise (especially at 20-25'... 30' is where the tide starts turning on that), if you don't convert that signal to balanced, then we're likely talking 100' or more that the cable is traveling to FOH. So the potential noise picked up increases greatly. Even if you go wireless, if you're coming out of the receiver unbalanced, then it's unbalanced down the entire snake.
Technically, you can get rackmounted 4 channel DI's (probably larger too for that matter) that you could rack with the mixer, whether those are practical over individual 1 and 2 channel DIs depends on the circumstances. The individual DI's will usually be better because the DI can live at or near the instrument (or amp) and so that minimizes the length of instrument cable the musician needs. Meanwhile, once you hit the DI with the instrument signal, you can send that balanced mic level output hundreds of feet.
That minimizes trip hazards too since the cables won't be ever have to be stretched tight. And the XLR cables can be extended just by added another cable.
Number 2 might be the trickier part here. If it's just 2 tracks, then just adding a separate USB pre into the mix, and splitting that to the XR18 and FOH is probably the simplest answer. Maybe even 4 tracks wouldn't be that big of a deal... But if you're bringing a lot of tracks back from the DAW, then you are correct, you need to split those... somehow. This might be a place where that Midas rackmount box starts making sense. Either by living with the tradeoffs I mentioned in the first reply.. .OR... biting the bullet and getting BOTH it AND an analog split. You'd split all your stage inputs normally into the analog split, while making sure the XR spit out your tracks into the Midas box. And the Midas box would then send the trax channels (as line outs) into your analog splitter. Or you could skip hitting your splitter since the DAW is already getting them to your XR18 digitally anyway, and just have a loom of XLRs or a fan to fan snake that you'd homerun from the Midas to the house snake. Hitting your splitter would be the neater option because that would mean just the one tail going to the house snake and console. But that's the only reason for the Midas outputs to hit your splitter. Otherwise, it could go directly to the house snake/multipair.
I’m doing a shared setup and in fact, I’m using the exact same plate reverb that you’re using in this demonstration with the same level settings and this issue I am having is the reverb wants to launch the system into uncontrolled feedback. What point of the process am I not doing right and how can I correct my mistake? Possibly reduce the level of the reverb plug-in or cut back on the sends? I’ve got one wedge set at the base of all 3 of my mic stands, a typical monitor position, so I don’t think speaker placement is the issue.
Go to the Plate reverb return and check something for me...
Let's say you have the Plate reverb in FX slot 1. So, FX1.
On the FX 1 return channel, click it to select it, and then select SENDS.
My guess is, when you look at the Sends on FX1 Return, you'll see you have FX Send 1 turned up on FX RTN 1. So when you bring the reverb up, you're sending it back to itself... A circular situation that definitely creates feedback.
Adjust accordingly for whichever slot you actually have your Plate reverb in.
That's my best guess anyway...
I think I might have figured the problem out just from observation. When I select the FX 1 tab under all the buses over on the right hand side, the channels that come up for the sends, I had the FX1 (Plate Reverb) turned up on the channel strip fader as well. I guess that’s what was causing a feedback loop? I won’t know this for sure until I get back to where our practice space is. I noticed in your demonstration you didn’t make any adjustment to that fader.
Thank you. These videos are great however, I have a “why” brain. I can do the settings as instructed but the distracting question of why muddles my process. I need the fill ins of both the big picture and just the basic, somewhat detailed explanation to better understand the reason. Is there a relatively short course that can help me out you can recommend?
I think the FX Rack Explained video probably does a better job of explaining the 'why' of things, at least as far as the focus of that video. Probably works best in conjunction with this video rather than this video alone. Good suggestion to make sure there's a focus on the 'why' and not just the 'how'.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thank you do your prompt response. Can you recommend any online courses that can take me the level I feel I need and not to a sound engineer degree per say? I run my xr18 off an iPad but the iPad started crashing on connection so I connected my MacBook and the program on the laptop was different and seemed to be at a much higher level as far as familiarity with what’s what. I need to get familiar and comfortable with all aspect of running sound for the bands I play in. It’s low level bar scene so a sound man, while worth it for me to surrender my pay to have, is something that still cuts into everyone else’s profits. I guess it’s hard to give up money when you’re only responsible for playing and not the sound haha.
I was wondering if it was possible to remove the effects from the buses and use them as normal monitor lines.
For example bus 13 with no effect, xlr 13 output to a stage monitor. Ie bus 13 like MixBus
Yes. The 16 outputs can come from anywhere on the X32. So, 2 of them are normally house Left and Right... Sometimes fill and sub... sometimes a matrix or 2 or more...
As long as there are available outputs after accounting for that stuff, then any bus can be assigned to those open XLR outs. Even one that is by default assigned to an effect. It's all in the routing and making sure remove/un-insert the bus effect. Essentially, go into the FX Rack and don't assign any FX to bus 13... Unless it's an effect you want to INSERT on bus 13 for mons, like a GEQ for example.
I am using the M32C as a dedicated monitor mixer for IEMs. Is there a way to get reverb JUST on my vocal channel? When I turn the reverb up on the fX fader it does it to all the channels in my personal monitor mix
There's definitely a way to get it only on your vocal. You don't have the reverb inserted do you?
I think I need more info... IF you're using the reverb across multiple channels (let's say FX 1 is your reverb and on channels 7-12 you turn channel send FX 1 up on those channels) then all of those things will be in the FX return, so yes... those would all end up in your mix.
BUT... if you dedicate a reverb to just your vocal, and send nothing else to it (just FX1 as in the above example up on your channel only), and also disengage L-R from the FX Return, then it should ONLY be your reverb in that monitor mix. And it won't even go to the house with the FX Return disengaged from Main L-R.
You have to use the dedicated reverb method though to have only reverb on your voice in your mix.
5:19 Dedicated FX Setup
hi its me again..wanna ask..if im gonna tap or press input the fx 2,which is delay effects,there is sudden increase in the meter indicator up to 2 to 4 db and hearing a ticking sounds..my fx2 is connected on MAIN MIX(1 and 2 input).what could be the problem..thanks
"input" or "insert"?
I don't think I'm following the question. Do you have the delay inserted on the main mix for some reason? That part is confusing me.
My problem with that solution is that the FOH vocal volume will have an effect on the reverb volume in the monitor mix. Is there another way around that?
Make a dedicated reverb for Mons. Set it as a 'pre fader' send on the vocal channel. That is one option.
Another option would just be to make two channels for the lead vocal.... One assigned to the house. The other NOT assigned to the house. Do all monitor adjustments on the 2nd channel, and that includes the monitor reverb adjustment.
You'd still want the reverb to be the dedicated style of routing.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thanks for the answers. How would I go about if I used a second xr18 for monitor mixes only? Is there a way to get alle channel inputs from the foh to the mon mixer?
@@AlanHamiltonAudio is this a restriction of the xr18 or is this the same 'problem' with mixers in general? Couldn't you send the channels that are sent so the montior bus also from the bus to the effects Channel?
@@philippelelong2101 You would need an analog splitter. All stage lines would hit the splitter, and then each input of the splitter would have two outputs. So one of those outputs would feed the monitor world XR18 and the other would feed the house XR18.
@@philippelelong2101 All mixers work the same in this regard so it's not a limitation exclusive to the XR18. The only difference might be a larger mixer could have more channels so you could duplicate some or all of the channels to have dedicated FOH and dedicated MON channels... and you could have a larger FX rack and more sends to more easily give up a send and FX slot for a dedicated reverb or even more than 1 dedicated reverb.
Is it possible to send effects to the solo bus for control room monitoring in order to get the reverb levels right before sending them to the front of house.
It's definitely possible. I'm not sure what would be the best way, just depending on how you're doing things.
First and foremost, with default settings in the 'Monitor' section, if you SOLO the vocal channel(s) and the desired FX return, that will get you your PRE-Fader listen to things in the cue mix.
But that balance won't necessarily be accurate unless your vocal and FX return faders are at unity. Then it's accurate as to what is being heard in the house or going to 'tape' or to the stream.
If your faders aren't at unity (which could be understandable, especially the channels vs the FFX returns), then changing the default settings in the MONITOR section to be Soloing AFL for the channels changes that.
Live, you'd normally want pre-fader so you can hear whatever is happening in the channel before bringing the fader up in the house... But for recording purposes, and some non-typical live uses, AFL could be preferred for the channel solo setting.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thanks will have another play with it. I think Im probably missing the soloing of the effects return. Soloing AFL in the monitoring section didn't seem to work for me, but will persevere. Its for live electronic music production, where delay and reverb levels are kind of essential to get right, especially delay settings, prior to going to 'tape' as you say. Thanks yoi have put me in the right direction. So many settings its kind of overwhelming!!
Hi Alan, managed to do what I wanted after soloing the effects returns like you said and simply turning off main LR - the single lit/unlit button for the Channel, easy when you know how. Works really well post fader using that method to set the effect levels as required before mixing the channel in to the main outs. Cheers for the replies, hope this helps someone else. Mains LR button is a bit obvious now I've done it, was muting channel before and losing the effects that way. Thanks again.
I'm still learning x32-mix on my ipad. Is it normal when setting up IEM to get vocals bleeding through from the reverb channel when the vocals are actually muted? I'm thinking I set it up wrong.
Did you get this sorted out?
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I have not. I tried several things including changing from post-fader to pre-fader, but in that case, if the main channel is muted, then the in-ear won't get any reverb at all.
@@alexc2234 Somehow I had a long reply typed... and I lost it... Anyway, I think I'm confused on what it is you're trying to do. First, IIRC, I was thinking all sends on a channel would mute when you muted the channel (by default). There is a setting in the SETUP section to change mutes to channel on/offs. I haven't ever used that so I don't know how that exactly works if you enable it and if you might have that enabled vs the default setup.
So, I thought I was tracking with you, but then you say if you change to PRE, and I assume you mean the channel FX send on the channel to PRE, then it mutes the reverb and the IEM doesn't get any reverb at all. But I thought that was what you were trying to do in the first place? So, while I would've thought it would've done that whether the FX send was Pre or Post, I'm kind of lost why this is also a problem? ...Because I thought that was what you wanted to do anyway?
I guess that leaves me confused on two points, because I would've expected the channel mute to do the same thing whether the setting was pre or post.
Of course, maybe you're talking about the mon sends on the FX returns, and not the sends on the channel... and not talking about muting the channel?
I guess, ultimately, I'm not 100% sure what it is you're doing, or trying to accomplish, so I don't know what to suggest without some more info.
Have you watched this video on the FX Rack in the XR18? Some things are different than the X32 a little bit, but a lot is the same with the FX Rack implementation and it might hit on a point that would help you maybe figure out something that is confusing you now.
th-cam.com/video/TV5ClH_MWrU/w-d-xo.html
@@AlanHamiltonAudio So sorry, I probably didn't explain it right. Let's say the guitarist doesn't want to hear the lead vox in his in-ears and mutes him from his buss on "sends on fader". The lead vox still bleed through the effect whether it be reverb or delay. So if it were delay for example, you would not hear the first note but you'd hear the delayed note he sang. I tried pre-fader on the effect send but that had other consequences. I'm wondering what's the correct way this should be set up. Thanks
@@alexc2234 That is discussed at 5:19 'Dedicated FX Setup' in the video. Reverb/delay is shared normally, and so the monitor send for that reverb/delay (which is tapped at the reverb or delay return channel, is shared as well. You can take the vocal out of a mix, but the reverb will still be there. The only way around that is to give anyone that needs their own reverb and cannot tolerate this ghost reverb, a dedicated reverb. And you only have so many slots, and if the console is also doing FOH and not just monitors, then the FOH engineer needs reverbs/delays for the house so he/she needs slots too.
I think I put an animated diagram in that XR18 FX rack video that explained that reverb/FX signal flow which is the same concept for any console... not just the XR18... not even just Behringer/Midas. (I know I did a signal flow chart for this in one of the videos... almost has to be that video)
Usually, the reverb isn't so heavy that a musician can't just adjust the overall reverb level in their mix and not be able to live with the ghost reverbs. Plus, a lot of times, they aren't totally killing other vocals in their mix anyway. Unless they are the sole lead singer and maybe only want themselves and everyone else is blending harmonies to them (so everyone else gets at least some of everyone's vocals).
And in that case, 1 dedicated reverb for the lead singer is usually sufficient. Everyone else has vocals and so the reverb shouldn't be distracting, overall, if in balance, anyway. Unless the reverb setting itself is just over the top to begin with.
Really, as for delays in monitors, they could be looked at more as something between a luxury and not even needed and potentially distracting in the monitors anyway. Especially, long delays (and/or heavy repeats). Especially for everyone. So, with limited slots, and people not liking ghost reverbs and delays, one quick thing to try is just having the musicians not even use the delay in their ears. Ghost delay might be more distracting than any reverb because delay tends to be 'heavy' (read: noticeable, even at low levels). Or possibly, if the singer needs delay because he/she plays with the delay vocally, then make delay the priority for a dedicated FX unit.
If ghost reverbs are a problem, even when the mon mix level for the reverb are really low, and a dedicated reverb isn't going to work because slots are too limited to have enough to go around, I'd definitely take a look at the reverb settings and make sure the pre-delay is not super long, nor the decay super long. If the reverb is always 80...100+ms pre-delay, and 3.5 sec decay, then that could make it so prominent that ghost reverbs get way more distracting than otherwise would have to be. Even at low mix levels. At least compared to a 20ms Pre-delay and 1.5sec decay reverb.
when selecting FX2 (on around 3:12, in your case the plate reverb) it doesn't show the buses... it only shows the matrixes...(version 4.3m X32R FW 4.09) ???
We're looking at the XR18 in this case and X-Air Edit vs X-Edit (though they are nearly identical and function the same) so there are fewer busses showing than the X32, but the only practical difference is you're seeing less mix buses here than on the X32 where you'd see 16 mix buses (12 plus 4 FX sends normally on the X32/M32 vs the 6 buses plus 4 FX sends that you'd see on an X-Air). It's not matrixes that you're seeing here.
For all intents and purposes everything reacts the same, and mainly looks the same (same places, same order, same basic layout) and functions the same.
I think that is what you're asking about and maybe confusing you. But I'm not using matrixes nor showing them for any of this.
Sometimes it's easier to show something on the X-Air platform when it pertains to both the XR18 and X32 because there's no extra busses to confuse things... and it's just a matter of realizing the X32 is the same with more buses available.
The X32R won't connect to X-Air Edit only to X32 Edit. In X32 Edit the FX returns are shown in Stereo (under the Aux FX button), as well as the four "normal" FX returns... still can't seem to get my head around it... very confusing @@AlanHamiltonAudio
@@soulshine9666 Right. You have to use X-Air Edit for the XR18 and X-Edit for the X32. The programs aren't interchangeable, but the GUI is very similar. The time stamp you mentioned... 3:12 is looking at the SENDS tab of X-Air Edit, but the Sends tab of X-Edit will look essentially the same with just more buses showing. The same method to get there too: Top of the program and tab over to where the SENDS tab/button is.
The FX Returns have their own layer on X-Edit whereas on X-Air Edit there is just one layer. On X-Edit to get to FX Returns you click the Aux FX button for that layer and that's where you'll see your Aux ins (like the USB player, plus where you probably get to your MP3 player if you connect to the RCA aux in channels on the back) and also the FX Returns are there.
To assign reverb to the monitors you want to first go to the FX Return channel of the reverb you want, which is what the video says, and once you've selected that FX Return channel, go to the top of X-Edit OR X-Air Edit (identical in use and basic GUI in this application) and select the SENDS tab. In X-Air Edit it will look exactly like the video, and in X-Edit it will look identical EXCEPT more busses will be showing (because the X32 has more busses).
Just FYI you should never give singers reverb in their monitors, it's just asking for feedback.
You shouldn't do it without understanding what you're doing... and without them asking for it or wanting it. But it's only a feedback problem if you cannot manage feedback in the first place. More importantly, it has become more of a 'thing' because of IEMs with singers need/wanting a better experience in their IEMs. Ambient mics can help, but isn't always enough or a substitute for actual reverb.
When the band is on all wedges, they many times get enough reverb from the room sound and the reverb on their voice in the mains. But, if they don't, and they are experienced and know they want reverb in the monitors, it's not the engineer's job to tell them "no"... it's the engineer's job to put reverb in their monitor.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio You can try and bs me all you want man. 90% of engineers aren't going to be running sound for IEMs. There's less than 20% of bands that are actively playing gigs, of any size, that are running a strict IEM setup.
Reverb in the house monitors is a terrible idea. I'll give them reverb, and when they keep looking up when feedback goes off from trails LOOPING AND FEEDING BACK INTO THE MICS AND MONITORS, and they wonder why, I'll turn the reverb off and see the lightbulbs all turn on.
It actually IS your job to educate people as to best performance practices if that's what they want. There's a difference between educating people and dictating.
If a singer is used to compression in the studio, you think it's a good idea to rock it into their monitors so they never hear themselves get louder when they're trying to? Give me an honest answer here, what % of singers do you actually think can translate that out into a live performance with wedges on the floor and not be going, "why am I not getting louder when I am belting?"
Compression on vocals in the wedges = singer fighting to hear themselves all night = blown out vocals.
You can try and tell me these aren't best practices for a reason, but unfortunately for you, your word isn't law.
@@ytscksdabig1 You obviously aren't working with touring acts, nor providing for a wide variety of acts. I have videos talking about the pitfalls of compression in the monitors, and especially too much compression. So I can agree with you on that to a point. Although it isn't a hard and fast 'never...at all' rule. But it's definitely not someplace you tread into a dial away either. And best to avoid it at all in many circumstances. Especially if you don't understand what is happening with it on both sides of the mic.
But reverb in the mons or IEMs especially is a 'never at all' thing? I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. It's not unheard of in wedges, though there are caveats like I mentioned above. It's also not like a little doesn't go a long way. So, while it COULD cause feedback IF USED TOO MUCH, so can anything else in the mons. Anything. But a stable system should be able to handle a normal amount of reverb for a vocalist used to performing with reverb in their wedges. Period.
You also shouldn't bury a singer in reverb, not overly wet nor overly long either. A long length especially doesn't work for uptempo songs either. You should also make sure your reverb is setup properly... send/return reverb needs to be 100% wet so that adding it to the monitors is ONLY adding the reverb... not more dry signal. Not doing this CAN lead to feedback, but only because you're doing it wrong in the first place. Which is not the fault of the reverb. It's operator error.
A singer may sing differently with reverb in their wedges or ears. They might phrase things to play with the reverb tail. But that is another reason you give a vocalist reverb in their wedges or ears when they ask for it. That doesn't mean you don't try and be tasteful with it, and you always want to remember a little goes a long way. Also, for these same reasons you don't just put reverb in wedges or ears unless the artist requests it. Ultimately, it's about their comfort, not what you think is best for them.
It's VERY important that the engineer be able to provide what experienced talent asks for. If it's some kids on their first gig, then it is possible they need some guidance and might not know what they want. So you do have to have some situational awareness.
But that is also why you have to understand an artist on IEMs is MORE likely to want and/or need reverb. And you should know how to provide it.
When you have a national act on the deck, you don't tell them 'no' when they ask for reverb. You just do it. Experience might guide you on the type and amount... and they might suggest some changes after that. But you're not going to get much experience if you're wrongly convinced reverb is never to be added to mons.
Also, when creating your own touring rig, or working as a tour monitor engineer, this is something you're going to have to know and understand sooner or later. Or as a provider when you're asked to provide the ME as well. Or as a freelancer called into a show. Dedicated monitor systems are specifically for the talent and soon as you get an artist that wants you to add reverb you don't tell the "no"... Nor do you want to get on your phone at rehearsal and be searching YT for how to do it. At that point, you should already know how to do it. And that is not something you learn from telling people "no" because you're under silly misconceptions.
It's only going to get more important to understand this as more and more artists go to IEMs, even at the lower levels of the spectrum. Not just touring acts are on ears these days. And artists on ears are MUCH more likely to request some reverb. Best to learn and understand that now. Experienced talent knows what is possible, as do experienced engineers and PMs. Telling any of them "no" to reverb in the monitors because you don't know how to do it without feedback, or don't know how to do it because you've been under some silly misconception, or both, is a recipe for being thought of as not very knowledgeable at best, and getting punted off the desk at worst.
This is what teaching is all about. And experience. The only BS in this thread was what you added.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Neither are you considering you're making videos on youtube every day.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio If you have this much fucking time to write a response that long, you clearly aren't doing anything other than the internet all day.