Sadly, it has taken me too many years and money spent, before I realized that I don't need to buy every new plugin, or, any at all. I more or less got started in the digital recording side of things back when Sound Blaster sound-cards came with a limited edition of Cakewalk. Before all that and computers, I used a dual cassette deck stereo from Walmart, and recorded, then switched decks, adding a blank tape and so on with overdubbing. Well, that is as far as multi-track recording is concerned. Think we all had the old flat table-top cassette players/recorders. I guess I am just growing tired as I get older, and prefer things that will last as long or longer than I do. But it seems that anything computer and software based will always need upgrading and ask for more money to do so; very frequently. I suppose the wake-up call began when my years of investment in Cakewalk bellied up after Gibson, and then became a free DAW. Yes I love the convenience of a DAW, but sometimes I just wish I could get away from the screen, grab an old Tascam 8 track cassette recorder and make music with my ears again.
I started off the same way with a cassette deck, a Walkman and a Y-cable. I was 11 when I figured out how to overdub this way. Nice to see someone else mention this process.
I have been saturated by adverts on Facebook and TH-cam for all kinds of stuff, how do some of these companies make any money, and do you know what, when they play the music its crap, really the industry is in a huge dive to the bottom. I have Protools 2024 using Duet 2, UAD and waves plugs, my mixes done on my Mbox 2 using PT Le8 sound better, put that in your pipe and smoke it, the whole thing is a huge scam, I would rather listen to a great track from the 60-80's with not so great sound than todays rubbish using pristine sound
I have 5 pieces of outboard gear and I have stopped using all plug-ins. My mixes have improved significantly as I’ve really taken at a time to dial in settings and commit to them.
Having worked for a major retailer, that you may or may not have an affiliation link for, I can tell you - when you buy a UA plugin you are paying their license to use the manufacturer’s name (SSL, Neve, etc..) The plugin itself, if it didn’t have the “name” on it, would be much much cheaper. You’re paying for the name.
The market is now saturated with plugins. This was not the case 10-15 years ago. This is why Waves and UA have fire sales literally every day. It’s not that their plugins aren’t any good, they are, it’s the fact that everyone in the recording industry already has what they need. More than likely they have shifted their marketing to younger artists who have very little money.
Exactly! I agree with Barry's opinion that this policy of constantly running sales is scam-ish, however these days the marked is really saturated. Saturated with good cheaper alternatives. More to that, stock plugins in any model DAW are also great and it's became a norm, that ppl just throw a stock plugin on a track rather than buying third party alternatives. And I have not mentioned yet that they're actually a lot of decent FREE plugins.
Good point about plugins. I always scratched my head thinking “How is this plugin 90 percent off?” If a plugin manufacturer can discount a plugin by 90 percent, it could only mean the product was only ever worth a tiny fraction of the full retail price they’ve been selling it for. Thanks for being a voice of reason and standing up for consumers.
Right on the money on this topic Barry. I have recently gone in the other direction where I evaluated my plugins and reduced down to just my must haves. It makes things so much easier and they happen to be the same ones I always reached for anyway. I feel most people believe that each new plug in is a magic bullet.....but in my experience, there is no such thing.
huge fan of your here. very solid points. at the same time, the plug ins i got recently were composer related and i couldn't be happier. musio is on sale for a great low price and i got the korg bundle a couple months ago also on sale. plug in boutique is where the great deals are if you want to do one time purchases instead of monthly payments. loved your mac vs pc video man! solid, factual, and always comes back to human nature being the problem.
I totally agree. Seems we’re all having the same experience. I’ve set up my folders with just a couple of my favourite plugins for each effect and just getting better at using those. Tired of being bombarded on a daily basis with emails.
I bought Avalon VT-737 Tube Channel Strip and Empirical Labs EL8 Distressor Compressor plugins. I am considering buying SSL 4000 E Channel Strip and Manley VOXBOX Channel Stri plugins. I think this will be enough for my voice (book reading) recordings. Perhaps will buy some plugins from the FabFilter, like Pro-Q 3, Pro-C 2 and Peo-G (Expander/Gate). I think that's all I need, and then some.
I agree with you Barry, that in the instance of UAD, if you own the hardware version and they offer a plugin, they should just authorize the plugin for you. I actually love UAD stuff. I think what James Santiago is doing with the amp models is really good. I am a lowly home user who gets to play guitar a bunch during any given workday. I use a UAD interface. I have a pretty good sample of amp plugins. I have plenty of actual amps. I am a tube amp fan for sure. I have a few pedal sized amp models. I have an Iridium, a Simplifier, and a Dream 65. For all the options, on a normal day, I probably play through the dream 65 most often. Its great. Given the amount I have spent with UAD, I think it would make good sense for them to offer the amp plugins at no charge once you've spent the money for the hardware. A little goodwill goes super far for customers like me. I love your channel. I always learn something here. Keep up the good work. Paul.
Absolutely came at the right time. Cyber Month (boy we used to have Cyber week and Black Friday). I have certainly bought too many and now figure out how to sell them onto someone else, but don't want to drop these off on them either. I personally refuse to ever pay the WUP for a certain manufacturer ever again. And since they canned SG and left my desktop interface worth half of what I purchased it for, I have plans to move to RME. Thinking about some outboard gear for controllers next year and keeping the minimal plugs I want to use in the future. Three manufactures I have never had regrets for are Soundtoys, Plugin-Alliance and Fabfilter. Now I am focusing on learning more about mixing, properly learning the purposes for hardware and how the plugins I have are meant to be used
Agree 100% both with you comments about not hoarding comments - truly learn to use the gear you own (or plugins) and avoiding the hype machine and the plugin company ever-sale
You are 100% correct sir, ...... most of us have WAY too many plugins. Myself included!! I recently switched to a new studio computer and switched DAWs as well. Going through and installing all my plugins, I realized I had a boat load that I had either not used in years, or had never used at all. Needless to say, a shit ton of them got dumped! Like my wife says about clothes in our closet, ....... "if we haven't worn it in two years, it's time for a Goodwill trip"! So it is with plugins on my DAW computer. Oh, I still have way too many, and I'll be watching closely - If a plug doesn't get used or is a lesser duplicate of what I normally use, it will get pitched. And I've been unsubscribing from several plugin companies (WAVES got nicked after they went subscription only). I just don't need to waste time where it's not productive. Too much music to record!! And I'm heading in the "hybrid mixing" direction anyway. Hoping to not use/need as many plugins. Thanks for another thought provoking video Barry. Much appreciated!
Great video Barry, I also agree as I just like you mentioned have purchased a plugin or two at retail prices only to see it fall ridiculously during Black Friday Sale or alike. Now I’m very cautious about buying them and moving to hardware, software when I need them.
I'm curious about your thoughts on SSL, Barry, and their marketing technique of OCCASIONALLY putting a $350 plugin on sale for $30? I understand doing a 20- or 30-percent-off sale, but 90 percent off? Are their plugins overpriced to begin with? Or are they hoping you'll see how good they are and jump onto a subscription?
I agree that UAs sales tactics are off-putting. They are trying to build an incentive to ACT NOW but to me it's pretty frustrating. Thing is that their plugins are absolutely incredible across the board, UA and Softube are pretty much the top makers of the most consistently high quality plugins out there. UA should not have to use those kind of tactics. But that's their thing apparently. I've learned to roll with it. I have the entire UA catalog of plugins, and there are a few that I rarely use these days. But I have to say that I have gotten good use out of every one of them over the years. I have found those that works better for me and other have fallen aside. That's how you learn to find your taste, you try a lot of things. And just because you only use a plugin for a year or two doesn't mean that it's a waste of money. It might have taught you a lot, or you have gotten inspirations to some sounds or it has just been a functional tool for you and now you have found something you prefer even more. But of course there are the plugin purchases you make where you trick yourself into thinking that it will be the magic bullet. Or simply that you feel the need to buy something just for the dopamine kick. I think we've all been there. When I read the headline for the video I thought you were going to talk about all the small developers who make plugins with generic algoritms and a "cool" interface that actually aren't very good. Those are sometimes to be considered as scam artist. Those like UA who spend huge resources on developing plugins are not to be considered scam artists in my book. They have one plugin that I would consider borderline scam and that's Voice of god. Also, they aren't very transparent about the fact that they are reselling old algorithms in new packages. That's a bit shady. Their amp plugins are fantastic however. I wouldn't pay full price for them though. But the few who are must think it's worth it, no? Right now you can get all three for $100.
I actually think some of the discount markering on plugins is illegal at least in some jurisdictions. In the UK there was a case against a store called The Officers Club which constantly ran a 70 percent off sale on jackets which were never truly valued or sold for very long at full price. Theres also legislation that came from that to try and prevent misleading price ads. I constantly see ads for allegeded 350 dollar plugins at 29.99 and the whole thing absolutely stinks. Its psychology pure and simple. The products were never truly valued at full price and the full price was in effect a way of creating a massively attractive discount. Thanks for raising it. I hope the industry gets its wake up call.
I switched to Cubase 13 pro two months ago, and I decided to only use the stock plugins, so far I haven't felt the need to install any of my purchased plugins, I'm very impressed with Cubase 🙃
Glad that you Building/Making Items for others for their GEAR ( WHY NOT RIGHT?) You got the SHOP w/ all the GREAT TOOLS & Knowledge. George :) That's so true about STore Front Businesses advertizing " Liquidation SALE, "Going out Of Business SALE...Everything MUST GO! ...SALE! ( and their still there ...LOL ) True!, These Plug-in Companies that SHOVE 'SPECIALS" too often pretty much SUCK! ( but I do pick & choose over the YEARS w/ UA )
Hey Barry. So True. I've made the same mistake and own so many plugins that i dont use... Crazy. Hey whats is that Boom arm your using to hold the RE20?
It’s gReaT having a masSive amount of plugins to fit any occasion. I have plugins I haven’t used in months like the great Shadow Hills compressors, that I know I’ll use soon or the Millenia EQ. I have a toN of time to work on music production so eventually I’ll make my way around to them. I work hard so I don’t chide myself for spending money on my one not-at-all-guilty pleasure. Plus, the price of plugins has decreased dramatically, especially right now. Black Friday is my day for any major plug-in purchases. This year Kontakt 8 is up to bat. It’s a blast to use, has beautiful sounding instruments, and should cost me half the normal price if I get my way. Are you still excited about making music when you grab a new plugin or two? Then go for it. Why wouldn’t you?
From this year I switched over to Logic Pro, I use all stock plugins in Logic except for reverb and tape saturation. Rest all stock plugins, thing is now my mixes sound more like upmarket studios 😃 As many have said, now I also commit to dialing correct settings as per the context.
An incredible advantage of stock plugins (I've been using Cubase PRO for decades) is that you can open older sessions without having to find that some plugins are out of date and no longer work. Provided, of course, that you upgrade your DAW regularly;)
Steve Albini talked about that. He said that master tapes of hit records created in early versions of ProTools are essentially dead because the plugins on the stems cant "authorize" for whatever reason... Company out of business, version expired, etc.
Good video Barry. I agree. We don’t need to have so many plugins. These days, I am less and less drawn to the new shiny thing. That said, I’ve recently gotten Soundtoys 5. I did so because I wanted something for fx shaping. Can I get similar effects with stock Logic plugins? Yes but they don’t sound as good and even more, I can achieve a sound faster.
Totally agree - plugins from vendors like U-HE are never on discount and for a good reason : they sell even with full price since they are actually good plugins.
I made a video largely about this topic, about how most of these plugins are absolutely redundant as hell, how it rarely if ever makes up for actual skill, and yet it is marketed in that way because that's what gets people to sucker up and pull out their wallet yet again. Whether it's EQ's or Compressors or Guitar plugins, which are the worst offenders. How many Neural DSP artist plugins do you need, especially given the fact that most of them are based off the same damn amp, and for 150 BUCKS A POP? Some of these guys have so many of these plugins that they could have an actual wall of amps and cabs, the actual real deal, instead they are searching for plug-ins that will makeup for their inability to dial in a good tone with just their own skill. Drum libraries are the same too. Marketed as being a solution to not having the technical skills of mixing with "mix ready" or "pre-mixed" drums. It's all a farce, and I hate it. Stop giving these brands your money.
How is that console MKIII with protools. I have a Presonus 8 ch Daw controler I really dont like it with PT2020.6 Should I purchase the Softube Daw Controller. Thak you Barry.
I’m the guy that has a tone. Only reason is because I am in a phase of life where I like to explore, experiment and learn. I find the gear and tech interesting and exploring is my current hobby BUT I do agree, because if I was doing mixing for a living again. I would go with one company maybe two. Pretty much all the competitors do the same thing it really comes down to style. I personally lean towards Slate Digital,SSL and Harrison.
The price reduction on plug-ins is a reflection of the music business. There was a time when being in the music business meant making money. Times have changed. You can't discount the thrill of buying a new toy and playing with it that "week".
Mr. Johns. The real problem is that computer audio has latencies due to having to convert analogue to digital and back to analogue using low cost chips. We don't have time to sit around dreaming that PC makers will ever care about audio. So we do all of the DSP effects in pre and post stages. Can't use PC speakers because they HISS. So tell me again how pc audio is so wonderful.
You make such great points in that video (although I must admit after watching it, I'm not sure about the title of it, but I guess it pulled me in so...).
Valhalla DSP are the best (all plugins are amazing and only 50$, no rebates), every other plugins I wait for sales because the retail prices are insane, those plugins go on the same sales multiple times every year.
Well said Barry. Since I mix hybrid I do not have that many plugins and just ignore all of advertisements. Even without hardware there are only so many compressors and EQs needed to make great music.
@@BarryJohns I appreciate you man - I used to be into Live Sound and never got into recording because I became Al Bundy, Married with Children so I'm trying to see what I can do for fun at 62 :)
I've thought so many times up through the years that "the next plugin will make my mixes sound pro, and it will be my secret weapon", but generally getting disappointed every time. The only time I felt a relatively large bump in improvement on my digital mixes without putting in extra work, was when getting a rather expensive summing mixer. However, that's analog hardware.
The first plugin I ever bought was full price. After awhile, you learn there's a sale practically every month. Never buy at full price, don't even bother with subscriptions. I bought a year of Mega from PA and yes, I got my coupon... but they just had a sale where I basically bought all the plugins I use for them for the same price of a full year of Mega, so I canceled the sub.
I was a Reaper user and it was great but I always felt that I needed more plugins (most of it psychological). Reaper also didn’t come with virtual instruments. I bought more than what I can fathom i spent. I had an idea to try other DAWS and ended un loving Cubase. It has plugins that I’m comfortable with and great functionality. Now I feel I need little to no 3rd party plugins
Out of all the DAWs that I either own or have used, I think that Logic has the best built stock plugins package. Cubase was my first DAW because the LE version came with a sound card I bought and I liked Cubase. I didn't really care for the Halion Sonic instruments back in the day though. I think for the US market, Cubase gets slept on. As far as the instruments, and effects, I think Logic is one of the best values on the market if you have a MAC because you really can get by with just the built in instruments, synths, and effects.
@ that’s sorta the outcome when a company basically throws a billion dollars at an app with no real desire to make a profit on it… as it’s main objective isto deliver a ‘surprise and delight’ to an entire class of artists.
I used Logic to record our album and used a mix a Logic stock plug in and some paid for but got for free from various vendors when offered as free for a short window. Reverb (yes the reseller) has a Reverb plug in that is a straight forward one knob one slider reverb that I really like.
I use Cubase pro, and although I’ve been a UA customer since the UAD1, I’m using lots of stock Steiny plugs, and they’re really good! Honestly, there’s nothing better about modeled hardware flaws. LOL
I think that people underestimate buying too many plugins. I think G.A.S is easier to realize because hardware tends to be a little more costly and takes up room. On the other hand, people gradually acquire plugins on fire sales, Black Friday, etc and end up with way more than they probably need. I think that if you like gear, like to collect, and can afford it, then it's ok. If you believe it is going to make your music better, sound better, etc, or is going to put you in financial trouble, then it's a problem. I also think in the context of a mix the gaps become less apparent. Sure, you may be able to hear some small differences in character between 2 synthesizers dry in a direct comparison, but put them in a song with drums, guitars, strings, bass, vocals, effects, and then would you notice as much difference? We certainly underestimate the importance of using what we have and practicing, in favor of buying more stuff. At the end of the day, I sound like ME regardless of what brand of keyboard, synth, etc that I play😂. When you go get that new "insert your favorite guitarist here" custom, you will sound like YOU playing that guitar and not them!
Soft tube amps are great.if they ever made a pedal like hx or QC it would kill. And that’s coming from a Kemper guy! I love my UAD plug-ins (spark subscription) honestly but I just saw a Slate/SSL combo offer that kinda blew my mind.
Some aren't a scam, but the majority are. Everyone and every company is a salesperson today for things that really aren't worth the price tag or even worth buying at all.
@@BarryJohns That's fine. The reason I say this is because it saves time. For example - If my client uses Waves 176 and I have the slate digital emulation, it means I have to spend time recreating the work they have done instead of improving it. Having access to the same plugins as my clients means spending less time recreating work they have completed.
No, had you made that point, I would’ve completely agreed with you, it probably was just maybe not the best choice of the way to explain that, but I get where you’re coming from. And maybe I misunderstanding your point but, after reading your reply, I do think we’re more on the same page.
Barry, it is not about Waves or UA to bombard with offers/deals. It is popular online marketing advice. The same suggested for music promotion (to literally bombard potential audience). Not sure this advice is good for artists (looks like artist has nothing to do except to reach and constantly login to social media) until real fans hate that repetitive content.
89€ for two native plugins (Ruby & Lion). A bit more for 3 plugins. Not hardware owner... As long as you buy their plugins they keep on sending offers and coupons. They know I will keep on buying so they let me feel like I am buying a bargain!
You mentioned you really only use 8 mics and each has a specific purpose. Covering that would make a great video - and if you already did that video sometime in the past - I was right!
Totally agree that most of us have been sucked in by the hype around their marketing. But, look at the people who are doing their bidding. Big name engineers and producers who have "made it" in the big bad world of music making. Without these big names doing videos and quotes endorsing these products a lot of us wouldn't have drop down menus the height of our screens full of plugins. You can't fully blame the companies, they are in business to make money. But these so called fellow engineers/producers also like the 30 pieces of silver, it seems.
Spot on -- I've wasted hundreds of dollars over the years on plugins but ah well, that happened. And, yeah I have mixed feelings about UAD too. Much as I still love and use their hardware and plugins (I've lost count of all my UAD plugins but maybe 100 with all those variants) but their retail prices do seem insultingly high compared to prices in their many sales and offers, and especially lately. I also wish they'd move faster to release native versions of the remaining DSP-only plugins, but that's another thing..
You're effing right! I got lost and bought a custom 3 plugins bundle at 272€. And now, less than a month later it's 119€! I got fucked, really. So dumb of me. 🤦🏻♂️
I do think your criticism of waves is a little extreme. Waves makes good plugins, and their constant sales on them dont reflect their quality. Their business practices ARE pretty lame, but again, still good plugins.
Agreed. But now that the shine is wearing off the market for plugins, they are actually putting the nail in their own coffins by trying to get us to subscribe to their "junk products" and as you say "it's something you'll never own." I hate (detest) the fact that because of everything going the way of subscriber based operations, that they then will have the power to not make your gear work. Sucks!!!
I think you capture part of the issue in this video. But the other part is this: it's almost impossible to provide value in the current plugin market. Every DAW comes with perfectly functional stock "digital" tools. And as for analogue emulations, there are a baziilion different free emulations of almost any analogue unit you can think of. Do they all sound as good as their paid counterparts? Maybe not. But there are a lot that do. And I think consumers are figuring this out. TLDR; It's difficult to sell an 1176 emulation when there are 100s of those in the market, more than half of which are free. So manufacturers are being forced to rely on "scammy" tactics.
GAS & PAS ( Gear/Plugin Adquisition Syndrome ) is bad for Profesional Producers dealing with efficiency and tight schedules for bringing the service ... but sometimes, acquiring 'new unnecessary gear/plugins' becomes a way to come with new ideas ... For a professionals, a total stupidity for their workflow ... but for 'Artists' a ground for creative speculations and testing ideas ... The balance? ... 1) Longer periods trials periods 2) 'Artists' in a budget could learn how to reproduce the sound of the 'Marketable New Device/plugin' with their stock gear/plugins 3) Artists with money just spend by spend ... what is an investment stupidity for professionals can be an opportunity for something just 'different' that brings subjective motivation ... 4) Profesionals? ... Well, Don't be stupid ... just call yourself 'Artist' and let all your consumerism society patterns to flourish into consuming all the garbage that is out there. ;-)
@@BarryJohns Waves and Plug In Alliance are both famous for it. There are many others that also do it with less frequency. Have you ever checked out "Audio Plug In Deals"?
Right now it’s very clear that you didn’t bother to wash the entire video, as I completely addresses in detail in the video. I just called out the two worst. And that’s just my opinion, I’m not gonna sit here and debate with you on this.
@@BarryJohns No need to debate. My point is that it is a marketing tactic that has been used on array of products for decades, if not centuries. Audio plugins are a natural for these types of discounts due to sunk costs and the fact that hardware is preferable to plugins these days. And, no, plug in manufacturers are not "scam artists". They are just trying to make a buck and stay in business.
Sadly everyone is looking for that magic bullet to replace time in the trenches and experience.
Replacing repetitive tasks with a plugin is beneficial. But I agree, most plugins that advertise as “all-in-one” solution is *really* bad.
You mean there’s not a magic bullet?
and TALENT
Sadly, it has taken me too many years and money spent, before I realized that I don't need to buy every new plugin, or, any at all. I more or less got started in the digital recording side of things back when Sound Blaster sound-cards came with a limited edition of Cakewalk. Before all that and computers, I used a dual cassette deck stereo from Walmart, and recorded, then switched decks, adding a blank tape and so on with overdubbing. Well, that is as far as multi-track recording is concerned. Think we all had the old flat table-top cassette players/recorders.
I guess I am just growing tired as I get older, and prefer things that will last as long or longer than I do. But it seems that anything computer and software based will always need upgrading and ask for more money to do so; very frequently.
I suppose the wake-up call began when my years of investment in Cakewalk bellied up after Gibson, and then became a free DAW. Yes I love the convenience of a DAW, but sometimes I just wish I could get away from the screen, grab an old Tascam 8 track cassette recorder and make music with my ears again.
I started off the same way with a cassette deck, a Walkman and a Y-cable. I was 11 when I figured out how to overdub this way. Nice to see someone else mention this process.
I’m on that same boat
Oh man don't mention cakewalk or say anything positive about them...Barry will make fun of you
@@johndoe-cb5ck 😁
I have been saturated by adverts on Facebook and TH-cam for all kinds of stuff, how do some of these companies make any money, and do you know what, when they play the music its crap, really the industry is in a huge dive to the bottom. I have Protools 2024 using Duet 2, UAD and waves plugs, my mixes done on my Mbox 2 using PT Le8 sound better, put that in your pipe and smoke it, the whole thing is a huge scam, I would rather listen to a great track from the 60-80's with not so great sound than todays rubbish using pristine sound
I have 5 pieces of outboard gear and I have stopped using all plug-ins. My mixes have improved significantly as I’ve really taken at a time to dial in settings and commit to them.
What 5 pieces? Asking for a friend…
I’m the friend he’s asking for 😂
@@alexovercast3359 SSL Fusion, Heritage Audio Successor, Teleger EQP-1, Wam Audio WA76, Eventide Eclipse, Lexicon PCM 90. Okay so 6 pieces lol.
😂 @@officiallysir
@@3riccarlson inquiring minds what to know your five piece special 😜
Having worked for a major retailer, that you may or may not have an affiliation link for, I can tell you - when you buy a UA plugin you are paying their license to use the manufacturer’s name (SSL, Neve, etc..) The plugin itself, if it didn’t have the “name” on it, would be much much cheaper. You’re paying for the name.
The market is now saturated with plugins. This was not the case 10-15 years ago. This is why Waves and UA have fire sales literally every day. It’s not that their plugins aren’t any good, they are, it’s the fact that everyone in the recording industry already has what they need. More than likely they have shifted their marketing to younger artists who have very little money.
Exactly! I agree with Barry's opinion that this policy of constantly running sales is scam-ish, however these days the marked is really saturated. Saturated with good cheaper alternatives. More to that, stock plugins in any model DAW are also great and it's became a norm, that ppl just throw a stock plugin on a track rather than buying third party alternatives. And I have not mentioned yet that they're actually a lot of decent FREE plugins.
Good point about plugins. I always scratched my head thinking “How is this plugin 90 percent off?” If a plugin manufacturer can discount a plugin by 90 percent, it could only mean the product was only ever worth a tiny fraction of the full retail price they’ve been selling it for. Thanks for being a voice of reason and standing up for consumers.
Right on the money on this topic Barry. I have recently gone in the other direction where I evaluated my plugins and reduced down to just my must haves. It makes things so much easier and they happen to be the same ones I always reached for anyway. I feel most people believe that each new plug in is a magic bullet.....but in my experience, there is no such thing.
Barry, I honestly enjoy listening to you speak about gear, software, etc. 💯
huge fan of your here. very solid points. at the same time, the plug ins i got recently were composer related and i couldn't be happier. musio is on sale for a great low price and i got the korg bundle a couple months ago also on sale. plug in boutique is where the great deals are if you want to do one time purchases instead of monthly payments. loved your mac vs pc video man! solid, factual, and always comes back to human nature being the problem.
plugin madness has been around a long time. its about selling software not making better music. love those side panels you are building. wow!
I treat my PC and all of my plugins like a console. I will use it until it stops working😂. Love your channel. keep up the good work.
I really enjoy and apreciate your videos and coments. Keep on tracking Barry. Best regards.
I totally agree. Seems we’re all having the same experience.
I’ve set up my folders with just a couple of my favourite plugins for each effect and just getting better at using those.
Tired of being bombarded on a daily basis with emails.
I am looking forward to your icon reviews!!!
I bought Avalon VT-737 Tube Channel Strip and Empirical Labs EL8 Distressor Compressor plugins. I am considering buying SSL 4000 E Channel Strip and Manley VOXBOX Channel Stri plugins. I think this will be enough for my voice (book reading) recordings. Perhaps will buy some plugins from the FabFilter, like Pro-Q 3, Pro-C 2 and Peo-G (Expander/Gate). I think that's all I need, and then some.
Sounds like a solid plan
You nailed it again Barry! I started working with a template & the consistency has changed my mixing & efficiency.
You nailed it Barry! Thanks for the video.
one thing I have too say about Waves that I like I can open a session for 20 years ago and all my Waves plugins recall with the correct settings
I agree with you Barry, that in the instance of UAD, if you own the hardware version and they offer a plugin, they should just authorize the plugin for you. I actually love UAD stuff. I think what James Santiago is doing with the amp models is really good. I am a lowly home user who gets to play guitar a bunch during any given workday. I use a UAD interface. I have a pretty good sample of amp plugins. I have plenty of actual amps. I am a tube amp fan for sure. I have a few pedal sized amp models. I have an Iridium, a Simplifier, and a Dream 65. For all the options, on a normal day, I probably play through the dream 65 most often. Its great. Given the amount I have spent with UAD, I think it would make good sense for them to offer the amp plugins at no charge once you've spent the money for the hardware. A little goodwill goes super far for customers like me.
I love your channel. I always learn something here. Keep up the good work. Paul.
Absolutely came at the right time. Cyber Month (boy we used to have Cyber week and Black Friday). I have certainly bought too many and now figure out how to sell them onto someone else, but don't want to drop these off on them either. I personally refuse to ever pay the WUP for a certain manufacturer ever again. And since they canned SG and left my desktop interface worth half of what I purchased it for, I have plans to move to RME. Thinking about some outboard gear for controllers next year and keeping the minimal plugs I want to use in the future. Three manufactures I have never had regrets for are Soundtoys, Plugin-Alliance and Fabfilter. Now I am focusing on learning more about mixing, properly learning the purposes for hardware and how the plugins I have are meant to be used
Excellent video! Great points. I'm guilty. I don't use or need some I've purchased. Like you said it was early on. I got better over time.
Agree 100% both with you comments about not hoarding comments - truly learn to use the gear you own (or plugins) and avoiding the hype machine and the plugin company ever-sale
So glad to find your channel again. I've been a subscriber for awhile but youtube has been hiding your content from me.
You are 100% correct sir, ...... most of us have WAY too many plugins. Myself included!!
I recently switched to a new studio computer and switched DAWs as well. Going through and installing all my plugins, I realized I had a boat load that I had either not used in years, or had never used at all. Needless to say, a shit ton of them got dumped! Like my wife says about clothes in our closet, ....... "if we haven't worn it in two years, it's time for a Goodwill trip"! So it is with plugins on my DAW computer.
Oh, I still have way too many, and I'll be watching closely - If a plug doesn't get used or is a lesser duplicate of what I normally use, it will get pitched. And I've been unsubscribing from several plugin companies (WAVES got nicked after they went subscription only). I just don't need to waste time where it's not productive. Too much music to record!!
And I'm heading in the "hybrid mixing" direction anyway. Hoping to not use/need as many plugins.
Thanks for another thought provoking video Barry. Much appreciated!
Great video Barry, I also agree as I just like you mentioned have purchased a plugin or two at retail prices only to see it fall ridiculously during Black Friday Sale or alike. Now I’m very cautious about buying them and moving to hardware, software when I need them.
well i'm watching every new video you put out and enjoy it pretty much , keep it going barry , cheers from the north .
🙏
You are absolutely CORRECT!!!
I'm curious about your thoughts on SSL, Barry, and their marketing technique of OCCASIONALLY putting a $350 plugin on sale for $30? I understand doing a 20- or 30-percent-off sale, but 90 percent off? Are their plugins overpriced to begin with? Or are they hoping you'll see how good they are and jump onto a subscription?
I agree that UAs sales tactics are off-putting. They are trying to build an incentive to ACT NOW but to me it's pretty frustrating.
Thing is that their plugins are absolutely incredible across the board, UA and Softube are pretty much the top makers of the most consistently high quality plugins out there. UA should not have to use those kind of tactics. But that's their thing apparently. I've learned to roll with it.
I have the entire UA catalog of plugins, and there are a few that I rarely use these days. But I have to say that I have gotten good use out of every one of them over the years. I have found those that works better for me and other have fallen aside.
That's how you learn to find your taste, you try a lot of things. And just because you only use a plugin for a year or two doesn't mean that it's a waste of money. It might have taught you a lot, or you have gotten inspirations to some sounds or it has just been a functional tool for you and now you have found something you prefer even more.
But of course there are the plugin purchases you make where you trick yourself into thinking that it will be the magic bullet. Or simply that you feel the need to buy something just for the dopamine kick. I think we've all been there.
When I read the headline for the video I thought you were going to talk about all the small developers who make plugins with generic algoritms and a "cool" interface that actually aren't very good. Those are sometimes to be considered as scam artist. Those like UA who spend huge resources on developing plugins are not to be considered scam artists in my book. They have one plugin that I would consider borderline scam and that's Voice of god.
Also, they aren't very transparent about the fact that they are reselling old algorithms in new packages. That's a bit shady.
Their amp plugins are fantastic however. I wouldn't pay full price for them though. But the few who are must think it's worth it, no?
Right now you can get all three for $100.
I actually think some of the discount markering on plugins is illegal at least in some jurisdictions. In the UK there was a case against a store called The Officers Club which constantly ran a 70 percent off sale on jackets which were never truly valued or sold for very long at full price. Theres also legislation that came from that to try and prevent misleading price ads. I constantly see ads for allegeded 350 dollar plugins at 29.99 and the whole thing absolutely stinks. Its psychology pure and simple. The products were never truly valued at full price and the full price was in effect a way of creating a massively attractive discount. Thanks for raising it. I hope the industry gets its wake up call.
I switched to Cubase 13 pro two months ago, and I decided to only use the stock plugins, so far I haven't felt the need to install any of my purchased plugins, I'm very impressed with Cubase 🙃
Welcome to the world From cubase
I have been using stock plugins for years I don't need anything else
Finias Eilish only uses stock plugins.
Yep gone back to stock plugs and loops in logic no more subs or plugs . Great vlog!
Glad that you Building/Making Items for others for their GEAR ( WHY NOT RIGHT?) You got the SHOP w/ all the GREAT TOOLS & Knowledge. George :) That's so true about STore Front Businesses advertizing " Liquidation SALE, "Going out Of Business SALE...Everything MUST GO! ...SALE! ( and their still there ...LOL ) True!, These Plug-in Companies that SHOVE 'SPECIALS" too often pretty much SUCK! ( but I do pick & choose over the YEARS w/ UA )
I tend to find that your DAW has 90% of the effects and processing you actually need. Its often better on latency too
Hey Barry. So True. I've made the same mistake and own so many plugins that i dont use... Crazy. Hey whats is that Boom arm your using to hold the RE20?
It’s gReaT having a masSive amount of plugins to fit any occasion. I have plugins I haven’t used in months like the great Shadow Hills compressors, that I know I’ll use soon or the Millenia EQ.
I have a toN of time to work on music production so eventually I’ll make my way around to them.
I work hard so I don’t chide myself for spending money on my one not-at-all-guilty pleasure. Plus, the price of plugins has decreased dramatically, especially right now. Black Friday is my day for any major plug-in purchases. This year Kontakt 8 is up to bat. It’s a blast to use, has beautiful sounding instruments, and should cost me half the normal price if I get my way.
Are you still excited about making music when you grab a new plugin or two?
Then go for it. Why wouldn’t you?
From this year I switched over to Logic Pro, I use all stock plugins in Logic except for reverb and tape saturation. Rest all stock plugins, thing is now my mixes sound more like upmarket studios 😃 As many have said, now I also commit to dialing correct settings as per the context.
An incredible advantage of stock plugins (I've been using Cubase PRO for decades) is that you can open older sessions without having to find that some plugins are out of date and no longer work.
Provided, of course, that you upgrade your DAW regularly;)
Steve Albini talked about that. He said that master tapes of hit records created in early versions of ProTools are essentially dead because the plugins on the stems cant "authorize" for whatever reason... Company out of business, version expired, etc.
"Nobody watches you anyway".. and yet... Here we all are.. mad respect to you, thanks for the videos, keep it up, ignore the trolls
Good video Barry. I agree. We don’t need to have so many plugins. These days, I am less and less drawn to the new shiny thing. That said, I’ve recently gotten Soundtoys 5. I did so because I wanted something for fx shaping. Can I get similar effects with stock Logic plugins? Yes but they don’t sound as good and even more, I can achieve a sound faster.
You are 100% right.
Hello, I bought the 3 uad amp plugins with there bundle of 3 for 99€ 😉
Kml. Barry, don't hold back, my boi
😜
Totally agree - plugins from vendors like U-HE are never on discount and for a good reason : they sell even with full price since they are actually good plugins.
You are absolutely right. everything i already have works just fine. with my Windows 7 professional 64 bit. PC. I stopped buying plugins in 2019.
I made a video largely about this topic, about how most of these plugins are absolutely redundant as hell, how it rarely if ever makes up for actual skill, and yet it is marketed in that way because that's what gets people to sucker up and pull out their wallet yet again. Whether it's EQ's or Compressors or Guitar plugins, which are the worst offenders.
How many Neural DSP artist plugins do you need, especially given the fact that most of them are based off the same damn amp, and for 150 BUCKS A POP? Some of these guys have so many of these plugins that they could have an actual wall of amps and cabs, the actual real deal, instead they are searching for plug-ins that will makeup for their inability to dial in a good tone with just their own skill.
Drum libraries are the same too. Marketed as being a solution to not having the technical skills of mixing with "mix ready" or "pre-mixed" drums. It's all a farce, and I hate it.
Stop giving these brands your money.
How is that console MKIII with protools. I have a Presonus 8 ch Daw controler I really dont like it with PT2020.6 Should I purchase the Softube Daw Controller. Thak you Barry.
I am playing Arturia Analog Lab V pro and it is amazing
I’m the guy that has a tone. Only reason is because I am in a phase of life where I like to explore, experiment and learn. I find the gear and tech interesting and exploring is my current hobby
BUT I do agree, because if I was doing mixing for a living again. I would go with one company maybe two. Pretty much all the competitors do the same thing it really comes down to style.
I personally lean towards Slate Digital,SSL and Harrison.
The price reduction on plug-ins is a reflection of the music business. There was a time when being in the music business meant making money. Times have changed. You can't discount the thrill of buying a new toy and playing with it that "week".
That person doesn't represent us the viewers. Keep making videos:)
Hi barry, wheres the link for the Console 1 Side Woods?
would love an update on your vsx journey what rooms you like etc
Barry, please make a few Console mounts in black!
Mr. Johns.
The real problem is that computer audio has latencies due to having to convert analogue to digital and back to analogue using low cost chips.
We don't have time to sit around dreaming that PC makers will ever care about audio.
So we do all of the DSP effects in pre and post stages. Can't use PC speakers because they HISS. So tell me again how pc audio is so wonderful.
You make such great points in that video (although I must admit after watching it, I'm not sure about the title of it, but I guess it pulled me in so...).
Valhalla DSP are the best (all plugins are amazing and only 50$, no rebates), every other plugins I wait for sales because the retail prices are insane, those plugins go on the same sales multiple times every year.
Well said Barry. Since I mix hybrid I do not have that many plugins and just ignore all of advertisements. Even without hardware there are only so many compressors and EQs needed to make great music.
And so little hardware modeled plugins that actually sound at least a little bit like the hardware they're emulating
Barry has been very good sharing information that we can use as a tool
🙏
@@BarryJohns I appreciate you man - I used to be into Live Sound and never got into recording because I became Al Bundy, Married with Children so I'm trying to see what I can do for fun at 62 :)
I've thought so many times up through the years that "the next plugin will make my mixes sound pro, and it will be my secret weapon", but generally getting disappointed every time.
The only time I felt a relatively large bump in improvement on my digital mixes without putting in extra work, was when getting a rather expensive summing mixer. However, that's analog hardware.
Love your videos and please do not stop broadcasting , also how i can assmeble similar Mic boom , where can i get same ?
Triad Orbit, not cheap but very versatile
IK Multimedia Studio Max? For the VSTs.
The first plugin I ever bought was full price. After awhile, you learn there's a sale practically every month. Never buy at full price, don't even bother with subscriptions. I bought a year of Mega from PA and yes, I got my coupon... but they just had a sale where I basically bought all the plugins I use for them for the same price of a full year of Mega, so I canceled the sub.
I was a Reaper user and it was great but I always felt that I needed more plugins (most of it psychological). Reaper also didn’t come with virtual instruments. I bought more than what I can fathom i spent. I had an idea to try other DAWS and ended un loving Cubase. It has plugins that I’m comfortable with and great functionality. Now I feel I need little to no 3rd party plugins
Logic Pro has good plug ins, all built in
Yes!
Out of all the DAWs that I either own or have used, I think that Logic has the best built stock plugins package. Cubase was my first DAW because the LE version came with a sound card I bought and I liked Cubase. I didn't really care for the Halion Sonic instruments back in the day though. I think for the US market, Cubase gets slept on. As far as the instruments, and effects, I think Logic is one of the best values on the market if you have a MAC because you really can get by with just the built in instruments, synths, and effects.
@ that’s sorta the outcome when a company basically throws a billion dollars at an app with no real desire to make a profit on it… as it’s main objective isto deliver a ‘surprise and delight’ to an entire class of artists.
I used Logic to record our album and used a mix a Logic stock plug in and some paid for but got for free from various vendors when offered as free for a short window. Reverb (yes the reseller) has a Reverb plug in that is a straight forward one knob one slider reverb that I really like.
I think most daw stock plugins are better than third party plugins but Softube has good plugins for mastering though.
Well said. I concur.
I use Cubase pro, and although I’ve been a UA customer since the UAD1, I’m using lots of stock Steiny plugs, and they’re really good! Honestly, there’s nothing better about modeled hardware flaws. LOL
I agree!
I think that people underestimate buying too many plugins. I think G.A.S is easier to realize because hardware tends to be a little more costly and takes up room. On the other hand, people gradually acquire plugins on fire sales, Black Friday, etc and end up with way more than they probably need. I think that if you like gear, like to collect, and can afford it, then it's ok. If you believe it is going to make your music better, sound better, etc, or is going to put you in financial trouble, then it's a problem. I also think in the context of a mix the gaps become less apparent. Sure, you may be able to hear some small differences in character between 2 synthesizers dry in a direct comparison, but put them in a song with drums, guitars, strings, bass, vocals, effects, and then would you notice as much difference? We certainly underestimate the importance of using what we have and practicing, in favor of buying more stuff.
At the end of the day, I sound like ME regardless of what brand of keyboard, synth, etc that I play😂. When you go get that new "insert your favorite guitarist here" custom, you will sound like YOU playing that guitar and not them!
Soft tube amps are great.if they ever made a pedal like hx or QC it would kill. And that’s coming from a Kemper guy! I love my UAD plug-ins (spark subscription) honestly but I just saw a Slate/SSL combo offer that kinda blew my mind.
Not bought a plug-in this year, guitars on the other hand….😅
Go baby go
Don't buy stuff just because it's on sale. Don't get stuff just because it's free. Get it because you need it! That should tell me...
Really appreciated. Thanks.
Some aren't a scam, but the majority are. Everyone and every company is a salesperson today for things that really aren't worth the price tag or even worth buying at all.
Thanks! I appreciate you and what you do
you only need every plugin if you are constantly mixing for clients and want an easier workflow
I don’t agree with this. Sorry.
@@BarryJohns That's fine. The reason I say this is because it saves time. For example - If my client uses Waves 176 and I have the slate digital emulation, it means I have to spend time recreating the work they have done instead of improving it. Having access to the same plugins as my clients means spending less time recreating work they have completed.
No, had you made that point, I would’ve completely agreed with you, it probably was just maybe not the best choice of the way to explain that, but I get where you’re coming from. And maybe I misunderstanding your point but, after reading your reply, I do think we’re more on the same page.
@@BarryJohns Glad we can agree sir!
With the MAJOR price drop on X32s at sweetwater, I hope you are getting some cool affiliate cuts!
Barry, it is not about Waves or UA to bombard with offers/deals. It is popular online marketing advice. The same suggested for music promotion (to literally bombard potential audience). Not sure this advice is good for artists (looks like artist has nothing to do except to reach and constantly login to social media) until real fans hate that repetitive content.
I just use the UA stuff . Cubase stock. And then some hardware for the big things.
You'll own nothing and be happy....
Very good advice from experience.
Do vlog on mix engineer’s that are constantly trying to sell us mix tips all the time , some are good tho, but most are a huge con!
89€ for two native plugins (Ruby & Lion). A bit more for 3 plugins. Not hardware owner... As long as you buy their plugins they keep on sending offers and coupons. They know I will keep on buying so they let me feel like I am buying a bargain!
I made a big cleanup on the plugins I had installed, I removed 50 plugins that I just used once (test) and never used
Valhallah comes to mind re good quality plugins at a fair price. Never a sale, but they’re $50 with some amazing free versions.
You mentioned you really only use 8 mics and each has a specific purpose. Covering that would make a great video - and if you already did that video sometime in the past - I was right!
Totally agree that most of us have been sucked in by the hype around their marketing. But, look at the people who are doing their bidding. Big name engineers and producers who have "made it" in the big bad world of music making. Without these big names doing videos and quotes endorsing these products a lot of us wouldn't have drop down menus the height of our screens full of plugins. You can't fully blame the companies, they are in business to make money. But these so called fellow engineers/producers also like the 30 pieces of silver, it seems.
Don’t pay more than 20-25 bucks per plug-in. Exception: special tool needed asap for a specific thing.
Well said ,
Spot on -- I've wasted hundreds of dollars over the years on plugins but ah well, that happened. And, yeah I have mixed feelings about UAD too. Much as I still love and use their hardware and plugins (I've lost count of all my UAD plugins but maybe 100 with all those variants) but their retail prices do seem insultingly high compared to prices in their many sales and offers, and especially lately. I also wish they'd move faster to release native versions of the remaining DSP-only plugins, but that's another thing..
You're effing right! I got lost and bought a custom 3 plugins bundle at 272€. And now, less than a month later it's 119€! I got fucked, really. So dumb of me. 🤦🏻♂️
I do think your criticism of waves is a little extreme. Waves makes good plugins, and their constant sales on them dont reflect their quality. Their business practices ARE pretty lame, but again, still good plugins.
Absolutely true.
Agreed. But now that the shine is wearing off the market for plugins, they are actually putting the nail in their own coffins by trying to get us to subscribe to their "junk products" and as you say "it's something you'll never own."
I hate (detest) the fact that because of everything going the way of subscriber based operations, that they then will have the power to not make your gear work. Sucks!!!
I think you capture part of the issue in this video. But the other part is this: it's almost impossible to provide value in the current plugin market. Every DAW comes with perfectly functional stock "digital" tools. And as for analogue emulations, there are a baziilion different free emulations of almost any analogue unit you can think of. Do they all sound as good as their paid counterparts? Maybe not. But there are a lot that do. And I think consumers are figuring this out.
TLDR; It's difficult to sell an 1176 emulation when there are 100s of those in the market, more than half of which are free. So manufacturers are being forced to rely on "scammy" tactics.
GAS & PAS ( Gear/Plugin Adquisition Syndrome ) is bad for Profesional Producers dealing with efficiency and tight schedules for bringing the service ... but sometimes, acquiring 'new unnecessary gear/plugins' becomes a way to come with new ideas ...
For a professionals, a total stupidity for their workflow ... but for 'Artists' a ground for creative speculations and testing ideas ...
The balance? ... 1) Longer periods trials periods 2) 'Artists' in a budget could learn how to reproduce the sound of the 'Marketable New Device/plugin' with their stock gear/plugins 3) Artists with money just spend by spend ... what is an investment stupidity for professionals can be an opportunity for something just 'different' that brings subjective motivation ... 4) Profesionals? ... Well, Don't be stupid ... just call yourself 'Artist' and let all your consumerism society patterns to flourish into consuming all the garbage that is out there. ;-)
I’d add that in the guitar world, we guitarists shouldn’t be playing through the new trend of studio-rack-style compressor pedals…
I don't think I buy to much music gear, maybe guitars, but defiantly to many tools.
Hush, your mouth child, there is no such thing as too many guitars! 😜😜😜😜😎
Get outta my studio Barry Johns!! LOL!!!!!
Deep discount sale prices work as a marketing tactic. That is why everyone does it!
Only a select couple are doing this in audio.
@@BarryJohns Waves and Plug In Alliance are both famous for it. There are many others that also do it with less frequency. Have you ever checked out "Audio Plug In Deals"?
Right now it’s very clear that you didn’t bother to wash the entire video, as I completely addresses in detail in the video. I just called out the two worst. And that’s just my opinion, I’m not gonna sit here and debate with you on this.
@@BarryJohns No need to debate. My point is that it is a marketing tactic that has been used on array of products for decades, if not centuries. Audio plugins are a natural for these types of discounts due to sunk costs and the fact that hardware is preferable to plugins these days. And, no, plug in manufacturers are not "scam artists". They are just trying to make a buck and stay in business.
@@TonyThomas10000 brother again please go back and watch the entire video, I speak to your point in the video.
Uhm Waves was overpriced when they dominated. 5000$ for a bundle?
Later or not back then if you were on ProTools HD, it was worth the money. Actually, you could get all the way up to $15,000 back then.