💯 This. 👆🏻”The Real Science of Sport Podcast Bonus Episode: Why test the sex of an athlete? The IOC seem confused. We offer some reasons…” I suggest listening to this. It brought me down from totally enraged to just enraged. 🤣 😡
@@TheNesbittExperience Ross is the best. I was first put onto him a few years back - recommend listening to the one from 2021 about world rugby making the decision to ban anyone from women's rugby that wasn't XX
Why are you bringing in a man that thinks he’s a woman to discuss DSDs, which is an entirely separate issue. I chose to believe the women who say they’re being hit by a man over men who have failed 2 tests by 2 independent labs, haven’t challenged the IBA ban, haven’t taken their own tests and presented the evidence to CAS, then used that decision to sue the IBA and the 2 labs. They haven’t lodged an appeal with CAS because their ruling is definitive and legally binding and, more importantly is public information (this is how we know about Caster Semenya). The IOC has failed women as they prioritise inclusivity over the physical safety of women.
Exactly. XY is a man. DSD doesn’t make you either. You are male or female. Him not disputing the results just confirms that he is a man. He has the testosterone levels of other men. Internal testes.
Genes are codes not shapes ! The xy of dog make dog even if it’s y . So if you have the shape but not the gene in your why you will be female! As simple as that
@@jasperhorace7147 include in the list US Supreme Court Justice Jackson. She doesn't know what a woman is. A biologist should always be present in case she'll be asked.
@@jasperhorace7147 unfortunately the First Minister of the Government in my country doesn't either. Nor it seems do most of the MSPs or MPs in their party. My country being Scotland 🏴, the Party being the SNP. The Scottish Green Party are if anything worse as *every single one of their politicians is preaching this idiocy and pushing it very hard. Thankfully the 'NU-SNP' politicians got an absolute kicking in the last general election in the DISunited Kingdom in NOTgreat Britain. .. Their crazy gender ideology is one of the main reasons the (Nu)SNP lost almost every seat in the palaces of Wastemonster down in England.
@@laurykristensen6239 Do you know what I could Google to find more info on this? Someone mentioned this under a comment on X but they’re saying that the child was conceived through artificial insemination exactly how lesbians have children together? I don’t understand why they would go to all that bother when he has a condition otherwise known as “penis at 12” though? I think 5-ARD can make you infertile though (just looked it up). It says couples may need help conceiving but I’m not sure exactly what that means.
This person is soooo dishonest ! « We shall not judge according to appearance » : he talks about himself there, not about sports’ fairness & safety. How sexist can it be ?!?
@@Souxie123Trans ideologues have to tread very carefully when they speak, as it doesn't take much to trip themselves up and the whole house of cards of their ideology comes tumbling down...
Exactly what I came here to say. Stop calling HIM a "she"! Freaking annoying and ignorant cowards. Keep backing down and cowering, and eventually we're gonna lose everything.
I guess they're hoping that their whole life wasn't a lie, which must be pretty surreal, or that their unfair advantage is politicised to their benefit.
And of course.we have that stupid woman with Eamonn being confused ,pathetic .There is nothing confusing about it .The simple and discreet cheek swab was dropped in 1992 ,and Khelif cd have avoided all this by abiding by the I.B.A ban .With women like that dope on the panel it's no wonder women are where they are .Only Eamonn has any cop on at all
Everyone surrounding these male boxers, like the coaches, managers etc seems to be 'invested' in or have made a career out of these people with DSDs. EVERYONE who knows they're biologic males is part of a scam that harms women and girls and the IOC is complicit.
1) I box and know that there had been complaints about Imane Khelif for years. This was before the IBA tests and their involvement. Female boxers, coaches, and boxing organizations filed complaints about Khelif being a man ever since he started in the adult womens boxing circuit. Look at his fight with Brianda Cruz from a year ago. He almost massacred her, and he's walking into her punches without flinching and with his guard down. He's not afraid of Cruz and can withstand her punches. He's also holding back a lot. That's a red flag. 2) This was handled privately initially. The IBA tested twice and found Khelif was a biological man. Khelif was given the opportunity to retest at the IBA's expense. Khelif refused. Khelif could have appealed and did so initially and then dropped the appeal and so he was banned from the world championships. This was over a year go when these tests were done, so Khelif knew about his genetics at least in 2023. 3) Khelif applied for the Olympics anyhow despite the genetic tests and despite being banned from the World Championships. The IBA sent a letter with the test results to the medical team for the IOC a year ago to warn them about Khelif. This was not done publicly, but a private letter with the test results. The IOC didn't respond and allowed Khelif in. They said they only use passports to verify biological sex. 4) When Khelif boxed Carini and Carini didn't last in the ring because her nose was broken and she was bloody, people knew Khelif was a man. His build, the blows to her face, and blood within 46 seconds are red flags of abnormal strength. The IBA was then forced to do a press releae on their website saying they told the IOC a year ago, and Khelif knew a year ago as well. This was now a safety and dangerous game that the IOC and Khelif were playing. 5) The IOC president, Thomas Bach, did a press conference and disregarded the IBA and their results. The IOC said they don't do testing at all. They only look at the passport. The IBA was then forced to do a press conference in Paris because Khelif was getting ready to fight more women and potentially seriously injure or kill a woman. Even the VP for the World Boxing Organization came out and said Khelif and several others were biological men. 6) The IOC has done nothing (not one single test) since and allows Khelif and other biological men to compete in a woman' s boxing competition. Khelif and his team try to drum up sympathy and do interviews and bring more attention to their so-called "private" situation. If it's private, then why does Khelif do interviews and constantly post on social media about it? 7) Khelif dresses, walks,talks, and sits like a young adult man. Khelif literally wears men's suits, clothing, and jewelry. It's so blatant, and Khelif posts pics on his Instagram flaunting it. He doesn't care because the IOC isn't stopping him. This is essentially what happened. Everyone knew, including Khelif, and they are not going to stop until a woman is killed.
@liamskywalker6591 thank you. I also found out Khelif didn't even box against or win a match against a Russian the year, 2023, he was banned from the world championships. I found no evidence of that. So I'm not sure what the IOC means this was an Russia led attack on Khelif. And even if Russia did this and the IBA is corrupt, then why does the IOC not just make Khelif do a test and destroy all doubt and embarrass the IBA?? That's what I would do. Get two independent tests done and really embarrass the IBA, WBO, and all naysayers who doubt Khelif and the IOC. They have yet to do this.
She’s wrong about a lot of things. I agree on doing the test - and the test should be a genital inspection. And the history of genital inspection is that plenty of DSD people pass this test, but are deemed ‘male’ according to a chromosomal test. So which test is the ‘right’ one? It’s arbitrary which standard is used. Genital testing goes back the longest and what’s traditionally used throughout human history.
@RC-qf3mp xy is not female, test results from a simple cheek swab will give scientifically correct data. Women's sports are for women. It's very simple. Stop being ridiculous 😒
Really? So what do you call somebody with a vagina, no penis, no testicles, but ova-testes that are partly like ova, partly like testes, and produce enough testosterone that the person develops facial hair? Aaron Kimberly is one such person. Generally considered a biological female who looks like a male and lives like a male b/c it’s more convenient. And then there are people with androgen insensitivity syndrome who are often very beautiful and look like typical women, but have internal testes, produce testosterone, but their bodies can’t process the testosterone normally, so develop like females and not males. Sorry, there’s gray area to nature, because nature loves to experiment and create novel mutations. Nature doesn’t care about your religious beliefs.
@Circus1990 yea he withdrew the appeal, he has the test report but he didn't release it to prove " he is a woman", and ioc & himself looking for every excuse instead of do another test. Well because he's a bloke !
@@Circus1990 he actually did appeal, but pulled out of the appeal as soon as it became evident that the test result would need to be public knowledge if he proceeded with the appeal.
Fancy that you put yourself on the world stage with fear of exposure... and top it off with blame on everyone else... point proven, you gotta have balls for that! Big ones 😊
This is all the fault of the IOC refusing to take ownership of the testing process. They know that a document stating the sex of a person is not a scientific or biological confirmation of that persons sex given all of the issues circulating over Gender Ideology. Even Trans people can get documentation saying their sex is different to their biological sex. The IOC should be vilified by all right minded people and sports governing bodies world wide for allowing this to happen.
IOC is full of shameless people. Nothing will change until someone actually gets punished for sowing chaos in our society by promoting unscientific nonsense. If you have the Y, then you are a guy. Period. No exceptions -- applies even for intersex cases.
And why was Russia mentioned???? Completely and utterly irrelevant. A convenient distraction from the matter in hand, which was about women's safety and fairness in categorisation of athletes as female or male.
It's the OPPOSITE of judging people by appearance. It doesn't matter the external presentation. Khalif is male and should not be allowed to compete. I have sympathy for people with dsds, but if you're male then then I'm sorry you cannot compete with females
I was so relieved that despite the disinformation, people were upset and concentraiton on this issue. I am Canadian and men are competing against women just because they declare they are women. I know this is a DSD situation but at lease people are concerned about safety and fairness in women sports.
Listen to Matthew Wright “interviewing” Fiona McAnena .. it’s on Sex matters page. It’s a tactic they all use when key points are about to be made. Deliberate tactic… maddening!!!!
Not interested in chats that include a man once again pretending to be a woman. I don't care what 'side' he espouses, I don't trust his opinion or value it. Do I really need more trans-opinions on women's lives and their important issues? No - I don't. This is exactly how we got here to start. How incredibly galling.
@@slacktoryrecords4193 I just think it was chaotic and confusing overall and just not useful. But the doc does have a choice who she accepts interviews from. They have a guy on this panel, I’m assuming is trans, and that just seems entirely inappropriate to me, only because the Olympic boxers aren’t trans. Mostly I just found it annoying and confusing.
Sadly (and alarmingly) there are people with money and authority who are pushing this woke DEI/gender nonsense down everyone's throats for DECADES now. Either they have been so indoctrinated that they actually think this is right, or they are hellbent on sowing chaos for god-knows-what purpose (one world order?).
It doesn't matter what the Algerian boxer says, he knew he should not a been boxing women ,,he failed the test done by BAI last year year before ,but he stillvbullied ahead &got into the Olympic boxing ,because women doesn't matter or their safety,
There is NOTHING complicated about this! These 2 guys are MALES in a woman's sport. Why is there a woman's category then? Considering it IS a woman's category why are the woman not taken into consideration at all, in their own category? there is huge issue with fairness, having their opportunity for a metal taken away and SAFETY! If men can compete then they can not call it WOMANS boxing!
Allowing a cross dressing man to keep talking over an unbiased biologist whose specialism this is, is ridiculous. What did they think the transvestite had to offer on this?
@@nickthepostpunk5766 He was interrupting and bullying Kelly Jay when India Willoughby was saying he should be taken into a women's rape refuge because he identified as a woman. It's on her you tube.
Bravo Dr. Hilton…despite the best efforts of the awful male interviewer and that other irrelevant creep that was invited for some reason, you got some information across💚🤍💜
So when people can't argue on the facts, because XY is XY, they resort to telling us it's impolite to discuss it. Well, we wouldn't have to discuss it and stand up for women if the IOC had done its job. Also, all high level athletes submit to testing, and the results are published when its pertinent to fair competition, whether it's doping or high testosterone.
Man, that's annoying. In the only situation where "trans language" would be appropriate, it isn't used. For example, if you don't know whether the boxers in question are male or female, you could say they/them. And if the boxers in question have a DSD anomaly that has led to them being mistakenly thought to be female when born , you can correctly say "assigned at birth".
Trans language, I prefer language, and it would be assumed at birth the doctors and nurses don't assign gender/sex..they see what they see in the moment, then it's congratulations you have a....not a they them just in case..
"Assigned at birth" was language advocated for by people with DSDs to begin with before being highjacked by the gender activists. Sex is determined by which gametes ones body is structured towards producing, (even when unable to do so.) Being male requires having an active SRY gene and functional androgen receptors. Sex isn't assigned at birth, it is observed and in the case of DSDs, can sometimes be mistaken by medical professionals, which it appears may be what has happened with these athletes.
There is no 'cusp' A female with DSD has something like Turner's Syndrome which results in a short body, webbed fingers and lack of some female internal organs, such as the uterus. It is denoted as karotype XO. But note the lack of 'Y' chromosome, denoting maleness. It is also known as 'single X'.
@@993Redveg Yes, the absence of Y means that we aren't talking about a male. That is not the case with these boxers who have clear male characteristics. There are many DSDs.
Emma was very precise when she said that, regardless of documents or childhood photos, Iman has XY chromosomes, which represent testosterone levels typical of a man. This is a fact up to this point. He may be an intersex person, but to date, no doctor who has examined the chromosomal tests has confirmed this; they have only considered it a possibility. It is a fact that he is a man, but it is not a fact that he is intersex. Three childhood photos and a document do not prove anything.
Defenders of these men in women's sports "We just can't make a decision. We don't know," The sane world "OK, then do a definitive test." Defenders (whistle... look away awkwardly. Hope people will forget about it).
This has nothing to do with identity, female sports were segregated so that women could compete fairly and safely due to physical differences. Sports need to continue to be based on physical differences, not identity.
There are obvious evolutionary reasons why mammals, including humans, are pretty good at judging sex by appearance, and if I judged Robin or Khelif by appearance, I'd guess XY. I'm content to stand corrected if they can show otherwise with a biological test.
Right premise, wrong conclusion. We evolved to be able to inspect each other’s genitals and discern by how they look if the person is male or female. And genital inspection is the oldest test for sex there is, and what they used to do at the Olympics. We should bring that test back. You don’t know what Khelif looks like down there. But that’s the test.
@@RC-qf3mp We now have a more accurate (and less invasive) test to screen for people with rare DSDs and an athlete would volunteer to take one if he valued good sportsmanship. There is no good reason to use a less accurate test for determining sex or for determining whether performance enhancing drugs are being used unless you want to make it easier for athletes to cheat.
@@michaelc9287 phenotype tests are the most accurate. Genital tests being the easiest. It is the BODY that is sexed, not the chromosomes. Chromosomes are the program, the cause - the body is the output of the program, the effect. Sometimes theres a ‘bug’ in the ‘code’ - a defective Y chromosome, and that can cause a female body to be produced. The confusion is that, normally, when there’s no defect, a Y chromosome produces a male. But with people with DSDs, there are various ways the program can have bugs in it, and so there are various ways that the human body can be atypical sexually. So you have to just look at the body. The only way we know anything about chromosomes is by CORRELATING the chromosomes types to body types. But there are countless ways bodies can be mutated so you just have to look under the hood. This is the history of chromosomal testing - it’s always playing catch-up to phenotype inspection, the direct observation of the body. It’s the most accurate test. Look up the history of chromosomal testing and why it’s’ been abandoned.
It should just be a cheek swab for chromosomes, women with high testosterone should not be discriminated against. That just reinforces the messy idea that women are merely hormone cocktails.
@crystalshadow Would you apply that to hieght and bone density as well? How about the advantage dark skin gives to being in the sun? Do you keep anyone outside the bell curve from excelling?
@Woodrow0 The height and bone density issues is taken care of by weight categories. What can't be picked up is the advantage of reach apparently a male reach factor to height is more than double a females is. The punch force is 160% higher than a females is. I am guessing an XY individual that has the external traits of a female hat birth would hove some level of these factors which would make it dangerous to perform against females. Testosterone is largely something that would increase through puberty and it would vary in levels in individuals who appear to be females based on visible genitalia with XY chromosomes.
Injave absolutely 0 interest in hearing from RMW. It also doesnt help that the hosts don't have a clue and open the segment by spouting complete nonsense. Thank god for Emma Hilton.
Robin Moira White is clearer than the developmental biologist here! Dr Emma Hilton needs to speak more clearly and stop trying not to offend people. More needs to be known about the individual DSD diagnosis as it can mean different things regarding whether male development took place. Definitely needs to be sorted BEFORE they go out into the ring. Social media just perpetuates false info.
@@susanna6826 And therein lies the problem. This person may well identify as a woman, that doesn’t change his biology. He has male hormones and has gone through puberty as a male. His testes may be inside his body but they are releasing testosterone just the same. If they weren’t, he’d have the physique of a woman. It’s not complicated. A simple testosterone test would reveal if his levels were in the male range. A simple cheek swab would establish XY chromosomes (or not).
Making judgements on appearance: you’re so wrong. If Khelif LOOKED female we wouldn’t be talking about her. It is our primal ability to tell male from female that got us here.
Well, that was a waste of time, wasn't it. Trying to make something so simple sound 'complicated' in order to keep the lie going. The boxers are men with DSDs for anyone who doesn't know that yet.
Why throw up the accusation about the IBA only acting after Khelif beat a Russian boxer when you say you don't know if it's true. I've seen that allegation debunked. Simple sex test solves everything, both these boxers hiding those results speaks volumes, along with dropping or not putting in an appeal to their exclusion.
It’s not a gender debate, none of what happened for the last few years around women’s rights is about gender, it’s about sex. The class of sex, female and male, that’s it, the end……..
So we must believe because apples coming from an apple tree are assigned apples they can assign themselves as an orange and be eligible for the orange juice Olympics. Common sense and common decency has left the building in these Olympics. The Olympic committee is mentally disabled.
It's not that complicated. The science is there. The IOC don't want to use it.
💯 This. 👆🏻”The Real Science of Sport Podcast Bonus Episode: Why test the sex of an athlete? The IOC seem confused. We offer some reasons…”
I suggest listening to this. It brought me down from totally enraged to just enraged. 🤣 😡
@@TheNesbittExperience Ross is the best. I was first put onto him a few years back - recommend listening to the one from 2021 about world rugby making the decision to ban anyone from women's rugby that wasn't XX
exactly
@@sisterrosetta57 The 2016 Olympics should have put an end to this. The many forms of DSD may be complicated, but as you say, the solution isn't.
Why are you bringing in a man that thinks he’s a woman to discuss DSDs, which is an entirely separate issue. I chose to believe the women who say they’re being hit by a man over men who have failed 2 tests by 2 independent labs, haven’t challenged the IBA ban, haven’t taken their own tests and presented the evidence to CAS, then used that decision to sue the IBA and the 2 labs. They haven’t lodged an appeal with CAS because their ruling is definitive and legally binding and, more importantly is public information (this is how we know about Caster Semenya). The IOC has failed women as they prioritise inclusivity over the physical safety of women.
Funny isn't it, how they keep saying it isn't a trans issue yet the issues converge because of... hmmmm could it be biology?
Exactly. XY is a man. DSD doesn’t make you either. You are male or female. Him not disputing the results just confirms that he is a man. He has the testosterone levels of other men. Internal testes.
🎯🎯🎯‼
Exactly!!
02:36 what a freak of a man that thing is...
Why are we asking a man to tell us what a woman is. I really don't know how we got here.
Genes are codes not shapes ! The xy of dog make dog even if it’s y . So if you have the shape but not the gene in your why you will be female! As simple as that
Even your own British prime minister doesn’t know that.
@@jasperhorace7147 include in the list US Supreme Court Justice Jackson. She doesn't know what a woman is. A biologist should always be present in case she'll be asked.
@@jasperhorace7147 unfortunately the First Minister of the Government in my country doesn't either. Nor it seems do most of the MSPs or MPs in their party.
My country being Scotland 🏴, the Party being the SNP.
The Scottish Green Party are if anything worse as *every single one of their politicians is preaching this idiocy and pushing it very hard.
Thankfully the 'NU-SNP' politicians got an absolute kicking in the last general election in the DISunited Kingdom in NOTgreat Britain. ..
Their crazy gender ideology is one of the main reasons the (Nu)SNP lost almost every seat in the palaces of Wastemonster down in England.
Robin adds nothing to the discussion here. Semenya doesn't have high levels of testosterone , he has normal levels of testosterone for a man.
True. He also has 2 children with his wife. She carried them, and they were apparently conceived naturally.
@@laurykristensen6239 Do you know what I could Google to find more info on this? Someone mentioned this under a comment on X but they’re saying that the child was conceived through artificial insemination exactly how lesbians have children together? I don’t understand why they would go to all that bother when he has a condition otherwise known as “penis at 12” though? I think 5-ARD can make you infertile though (just looked it up). It says couples may need help conceiving but I’m not sure exactly what that means.
@@laurykristensen6239 We know atleast the second child was conceived by artificial insemination.
This person is soooo dishonest !
« We shall not judge according to appearance » : he talks about himself there, not about sports’ fairness & safety. How sexist can it be ?!?
@@Souxie123Trans ideologues have to tread very carefully when they speak, as it doesn't take much to trip themselves up and the whole house of cards of their ideology comes tumbling down...
No, it isn't hard. And stop calling him "she".
Exactly what I came here to say. Stop calling HIM a "she"! Freaking annoying and ignorant cowards. Keep backing down and cowering, and eventually we're gonna lose everything.
It’s simple. You are either male or female. You may have DSD of either sex but you that sex.
The source of the news is that she is a man
That is right it's no they are males why can't they accept that they are males who dominated the women's boxing Women wake up and say no
That's what he gets off on
If either of the people whose sex is under question were being honest, they'd be asking for the checks themselves.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
I guess they're hoping that their whole life wasn't a lie, which must be pretty surreal, or that their unfair advantage is politicised to their benefit.
And of course.we have that stupid woman with Eamonn being confused ,pathetic .There is nothing confusing about it .The simple and discreet cheek swab was dropped in 1992 ,and Khelif cd have avoided all this by abiding by the I.B.A ban .With women like that dope on the panel it's no wonder women are where they are .Only Eamonn has any cop on at all
Everyone surrounding these male boxers, like the coaches, managers etc seems to be 'invested' in or have made a career out of these people with DSDs. EVERYONE who knows they're biologic males is part of a scam that harms women and girls and the IOC is complicit.
@wolfhugs2221 that's what I said. Why not just embarass the IBA and get the tests done and prove you are a biological woman.
1) I box and know that there had been complaints about Imane Khelif for years. This was before the IBA tests and their involvement. Female boxers, coaches, and boxing organizations filed complaints about Khelif being a man ever since he started in the adult womens boxing circuit. Look at his fight with Brianda Cruz from a year ago. He almost massacred her, and he's walking into her punches without flinching and with his guard down. He's not afraid of Cruz and can withstand her punches. He's also holding back a lot. That's a red flag.
2) This was handled privately initially. The IBA tested twice and found Khelif was a biological man. Khelif was given the opportunity to retest at the IBA's expense. Khelif refused. Khelif could have appealed and did so initially and then dropped the appeal and so he was banned from the world championships. This was over a year go when these tests were done, so Khelif knew about his genetics at least in 2023.
3) Khelif applied for the Olympics anyhow despite the genetic tests and despite being banned from the World Championships. The IBA sent a letter with the test results to the medical team for the IOC a year ago to warn them about Khelif. This was not done publicly, but a private letter with the test results. The IOC didn't respond and allowed Khelif in. They said they only use passports to verify biological sex.
4) When Khelif boxed Carini and Carini didn't last in the ring because her nose was broken and she was bloody, people knew Khelif was a man. His build, the blows to her face, and blood within 46 seconds are red flags of abnormal strength. The IBA was then forced to do a press releae on their website saying they told the IOC a year ago, and Khelif knew a year ago as well. This was now a safety and dangerous game that the IOC and Khelif were playing.
5) The IOC president, Thomas Bach, did a press conference and disregarded the IBA and their results. The IOC said they don't do testing at all. They only look at the passport. The IBA was then forced to do a press conference in Paris because Khelif was getting ready to fight more women and potentially seriously injure or kill a woman. Even the VP for the World Boxing Organization came out and said Khelif and several others were biological men.
6) The IOC has done nothing (not one single test) since and allows Khelif and other biological men to compete in a woman' s boxing competition. Khelif and his team try to drum up sympathy and do interviews and bring more attention to their so-called "private" situation. If it's private, then why does Khelif do interviews and constantly post on social media about it?
7) Khelif dresses, walks,talks, and sits like a young adult man. Khelif literally wears men's suits, clothing, and jewelry. It's so blatant, and Khelif posts pics on his Instagram flaunting it. He doesn't care because the IOC isn't stopping him.
This is essentially what happened. Everyone knew, including Khelif, and they are not going to stop until a woman is killed.
Well said mate, that's it in a nutshell 👏
@liamskywalker6591 thank you. I also found out Khelif didn't even box against or win a match against a Russian the year, 2023, he was banned from the world championships. I found no evidence of that. So I'm not sure what the IOC means this was an Russia led attack on Khelif.
And even if Russia did this and the IBA is corrupt, then why does the IOC not just make Khelif do a test and destroy all doubt and embarrass the IBA?? That's what I would do. Get two independent tests done and really embarrass the IBA, WBO, and all naysayers who doubt Khelif and the IOC. They have yet to do this.
@@9395gbwell they won’t do it cos the truth would come out I’m pretty sure they already know what the result would be !
Dr. Emma Hilton is correct. This is not complex. Just do the test.
She’s wrong about a lot of things. I agree on doing the test - and the test should be a genital inspection. And the history of genital inspection is that plenty of DSD people pass this test, but are deemed ‘male’ according to a chromosomal test. So which test is the ‘right’ one? It’s arbitrary which standard is used. Genital testing goes back the longest and what’s traditionally used throughout human history.
@RC-qf3mp xy is not female, test results from a simple cheek swab will give scientifically correct data. Women's sports are for women. It's very simple. Stop being ridiculous 😒
There is no CUSP of male and female, even DSDs are binary.
Exactly 👍
Really? So what do you call somebody with a vagina, no penis, no testicles, but ova-testes that are partly like ova, partly like testes, and produce enough testosterone that the person develops facial hair? Aaron Kimberly is one such person. Generally considered a biological female who looks like a male and lives like a male b/c it’s more convenient. And then there are people with androgen insensitivity syndrome who are often very beautiful and look like typical women, but have internal testes, produce testosterone, but their bodies can’t process the testosterone normally, so develop like females and not males. Sorry, there’s gray area to nature, because nature loves to experiment and create novel mutations. Nature doesn’t care about your religious beliefs.
It’s so feminine the way Robin argues for domestic violence to be an Olympic sport. It demonstrates the sisterhood so well.
Robin has always shown staunch support for women's right to shut up & put up. Such a massive hulking feminist 😍
Women have no hope if this is how slow people can come to a conclusion.
I could tell he was a laydee from the "Moira"
Do a simple cheek swab, but they won't!
Because they are dudes !
It was done, but they are blocking the release. Also Khelif never challenged the results.
@Circus1990 yea he withdrew the appeal, he has the test report but he didn't release it to prove " he is a woman", and ioc & himself looking for every excuse instead of do another test. Well because he's a bloke !
@@Circus1990 he actually did appeal, but pulled out of the appeal as soon as it became evident that the test result would need to be public knowledge if he proceeded with the appeal.
Fancy that you put yourself on the world stage with fear of exposure... and top it off with blame on everyone else... point proven, you gotta have balls for that! Big ones 😊
This is all the fault of the IOC refusing to take ownership of the testing process. They know that a document stating the sex of a person is not a scientific or biological confirmation of that persons sex given all of the issues circulating over Gender Ideology. Even Trans people can get documentation saying their sex is different to their biological sex. The IOC should be vilified by all right minded people and sports governing bodies world wide for allowing this to happen.
Yes 👏
Court proceeding would speed everything up... before more people start getting ideas.
IOC is full of shameless people. Nothing will change until someone actually gets punished for sowing chaos in our society by promoting unscientific nonsense.
If you have the Y, then you are a guy. Period. No exceptions -- applies even for intersex cases.
Appears they have vilified themselves.
And why was Russia mentioned???? Completely and utterly irrelevant. A convenient distraction from the matter in hand, which was about women's safety and fairness in categorisation of athletes as female or male.
When Robin spoke that tells you everything you need to know about this person...
Just looking at him tells us everything we need ot know about him.
Bloke . About this bloke . Fify😂
AGREE 💯 Men like him should never be allowed near children and impressionable teens.
it got me as well, wasn't expecting it.
What’s going on with that Robin character, he’s kind of frightening …
It's not confusing. The boxer is XY and should not fight anyone who is XX.
Could the presenters interrupt Dr Hilton a bit more please? She almost got a complete sentence out, can't allow that!
you notice tehy interrupt the man pretending to be a woman though ^^
Y chromosome and male features says it all to me. Abnormal physical features at birth do not make a person the opposite sex.
Mmmm Robin we do know. They failed sex test. Didn’t fight it. NUF said.
Everyone stop letting people tell you that you don't see what you see .🙏🙏🙏🙏
We can all see Khalife is a bloke smashing to pieces women. Misogynistic
Anyone that complains about this, yet votes left, has caused this!
Why is this guy talking?! Any women you could interview 🤦♀️? The interviewers and (the guy) are a disaster!
It's the OPPOSITE of judging people by appearance. It doesn't matter the external presentation. Khalif is male and should not be allowed to compete. I have sympathy for people with dsds, but if you're male then then I'm sorry you cannot compete with females
2 men boxing in the women's category! INSANE
I was so relieved that despite the disinformation, people were upset and concentraiton on this issue. I am Canadian and men are competing against women just because they declare they are women. I know this is a DSD situation but at lease people are concerned about safety and fairness in women sports.
i'd agree about not personal attacks but they KNEW and didn't withdraw themselves.
That male anchor is so annoying. He kept cutting Emma off just as she was making a point.
Listen to Matthew Wright “interviewing” Fiona McAnena .. it’s on Sex matters page. It’s a tactic they all use when key points are about to be made. Deliberate tactic… maddening!!!!
Not interested in chats that include a man once again pretending to be a woman.
I don't care what 'side' he espouses, I don't trust his opinion or value it.
Do I really need more trans-opinions on women's lives and their important issues? No - I don't.
This is exactly how we got here to start. How incredibly galling.
Why are you showing this convoluted, “debate?” This video helps no one that might be confused. And it’s not “complicated.” Who are these people?
Well said
@@Sharetheroad3333 Even if a situation is 'complicated ', that doesn't mean the solution is.
XX = female
I hope you’re not blaming Dr Emma Hilton for this.
@@slacktoryrecords4193
I just think it was chaotic and confusing overall and just not useful.
But the doc does have a choice who she accepts interviews from. They have a guy on this panel, I’m assuming is trans, and that just seems entirely inappropriate to me, only because the Olympic boxers aren’t trans. Mostly I just found it annoying and confusing.
Bring back the #CheekSwab it's not complicated. It's simple biology.
Quit saying it's complicated.Use the science do the test gezzeee
"It's complicated."
Then let me simplify it for you.
Y chromosome = Man. Man not fight in woman boxing.
When did we enter Bizarro World?!
Sadly (and alarmingly) there are people with money and authority who are pushing this woke DEI/gender nonsense down everyone's throats for DECADES now. Either they have been so indoctrinated that they actually think this is right, or they are hellbent on sowing chaos for god-knows-what purpose (one world order?).
Nothing complex just test , that's all
My GOD, what purpose is there in having that male guest weigh in on this? He knows f*ck-all about this topic.
There is no “cusp” .It’s male or female 😡💚🤍💜
But Robin has a female essence so of course he will think there is a cusp he's an ef in clo wn
@@mandysymons2142 😂👍
It doesn't matter what the Algerian boxer says, he knew he should not a been boxing women ,,he failed the test done by BAI last year year before ,but he stillvbullied ahead &got into the Olympic boxing ,because women doesn't matter or their safety,
Thank goodness for Emma Hilton.
There is NOTHING complicated about this! These 2 guys are MALES in a woman's sport. Why is there a woman's category then? Considering it IS a woman's category why are the woman not taken into consideration at all, in their own category? there is huge issue with fairness, having their opportunity for a metal taken away and SAFETY! If men can compete then they can not call it WOMANS boxing!
Allowing a cross dressing man to keep talking over an unbiased biologist whose specialism this is, is ridiculous. What did they think the transvestite had to offer on this?
Well done Emma. Very rational reasonable and fair. Thank you for standing up for sex justice.
Shut up Eamonn, we all remember the interview with you, India Willoughby and Kelly Jay Keen.
a classic 🥰
I've not seen that but I did find him frustrating in this interview: I wasn't interested in his views, I was interested in the views of his guests!
@@nickthepostpunk5766 He was interrupting and bullying Kelly Jay when India Willoughby was saying he should be taken into a women's rape refuge because he identified as a woman. It's on her you tube.
@@juliemoss9522Beautiful moment when KJK verbally bit him. So snippy. So snappy. Bliss.
@@juliemoss9522 ah, I see: I’ll have to take a look at that video - thanks!
Creepy Robin
Lovely hairstyle though 😊
This is not time for bum bum fun @@davidfalconbridge8878
To right eamon 😍@@davidfalconbridge8878
🧓🧓@@davidfalconbridge8878
Bravo Dr. Hilton…despite the best efforts of the awful male interviewer and that other irrelevant creep that was invited for some reason, you got some information across💚🤍💜
He. He. He. He.
Why oh why do they keep calling him her???
"Herself", "She"? get a grip!
"Himself", "He". I feel like screaming when males are called "she". What a load of...er....bollocks.
*Protect Women's sport & protect Women's lives !*
He, please. Use the right grammar.
But that would be "misgendering"
@@davidfalconbridge8878 But speaking the truth about his biological sex.
Robin is deflecting! Prof. Hilton thank you for stating the scientific facts.
Why doesn’t ‘she’ voluntarily do a chromosome test?
Because he is a coward and wont be able to beat women anymore.
So when people can't argue on the facts, because XY is XY, they resort to telling us it's impolite to discuss it. Well, we wouldn't have to discuss it and stand up for women if the IOC had done its job. Also, all high level athletes submit to testing, and the results are published when its pertinent to fair competition, whether it's doping or high testosterone.
💯
Appreciate that they spoke with Dr Hilton but they need to stop calling Khelif she cause he isn’t.
Man, that's annoying. In the only situation where "trans language" would be appropriate, it isn't used. For example, if you don't know whether the boxers in question are male or female, you could say they/them. And if the boxers in question have a DSD anomaly that has led to them being mistakenly thought to be female when born , you can correctly say "assigned at birth".
Right?? Down is up...
Trans language, I prefer language, and it would be assumed at birth the doctors and nurses don't assign gender/sex..they see what they see in the moment, then it's congratulations you have a....not a they them just in case..
"Assigned at birth" was language advocated for by people with DSDs to begin with before being highjacked by the gender activists.
Sex is determined by which gametes ones body is structured towards producing, (even when unable to do so.) Being male requires having an active SRY gene and functional androgen receptors.
Sex isn't assigned at birth, it is observed and in the case of DSDs, can sometimes be mistaken by medical professionals, which it appears may be what has happened with these athletes.
Yeah sure, and apples are assigned on an apple tree. Unless the apple at some latter time identifies as an orange.
No Let's use plain speaking for once. "He, him, his, himself"!
Sex is a class. There is no cusp. A dog that drinks milk is not on the cusp of turning into a cat.
There is no 'cusp' A female with DSD has something like Turner's Syndrome which results in a short body, webbed fingers and lack of some female internal organs, such as the uterus. It is denoted as karotype XO. But note the lack of 'Y' chromosome, denoting maleness. It is also known as 'single X'.
@@993Redveg Yes, the absence of Y means that we aren't talking about a male. That is not the case with these boxers who have clear male characteristics. There are many DSDs.
This isn’t very nice but I really want him to just go away . The people saying he is a victim is ridiculous
Un-pro-fess-ion-al. The competitors and the speaker on the right. If you don't want the spotlight don't solicit it.
*in our Channel we cover this insane situation.*
*XY imane & Lin must quit Women's sport !*
*To accept them is unfair and dangerous !*
Emma was very precise when she said that, regardless of documents or childhood photos, Iman has XY chromosomes, which represent testosterone levels typical of a man. This is a fact up to this point. He may be an intersex person, but to date, no doctor who has examined the chromosomal tests has confirmed this; they have only considered it a possibility. It is a fact that he is a man, but it is not a fact that he is intersex. Three childhood photos and a document do not prove anything.
Defenders of these men in women's sports "We just can't make a decision. We don't know," The sane world "OK, then do a definitive test." Defenders (whistle... look away awkwardly. Hope people will forget about it).
It's simple, test the fighters in question
I like how Robin Moira referred to Khelif as he, him 😂😂😂😂
Because he’s male
This has nothing to do with identity, female sports were segregated so that women could compete fairly and safely due to physical differences. Sports need to continue to be based on physical differences, not identity.
For crying out loud IOC just do the cheek swab test then share the result. You can't just rely on what the passport says.
Sex gender same. He
XY chromosomes = a man
The IOC needs to be sued,by the Italian female boxer.
She knew about the stupid IOC passport qualifying rule though.
*No russian girl were competing against Imane or Lin, this is a lie to discredite the IBA !*
Thomas Bach, how much did Algeria pay you to allow this?
When you don't understand what to say by still calling him her
Cheekswab. Prove us wrong. Love to Emma🗣️🗣️❣️ Y=GUY! Testosterone is bimodal- not overlap- m/f. IBA is standing for women’s sport!!
There are obvious evolutionary reasons why mammals, including humans, are pretty good at judging sex by appearance, and if I judged Robin or Khelif by appearance, I'd guess XY. I'm content to stand corrected if they can show otherwise with a biological test.
Right premise, wrong conclusion. We evolved to be able to inspect each other’s genitals and discern by how they look if the person is male or female. And genital inspection is the oldest test for sex there is, and what they used to do at the Olympics. We should bring that test back. You don’t know what Khelif looks like down there. But that’s the test.
@@RC-qf3mp We now have a more accurate (and less invasive) test to screen for people with rare DSDs and an athlete would volunteer to take one if he valued good sportsmanship. There is no good reason to use a less accurate test for determining sex or for determining whether performance enhancing drugs are being used unless you want to make it easier for athletes to cheat.
@@michaelc9287 phenotype tests are the most accurate. Genital tests being the easiest. It is the BODY that is sexed, not the chromosomes. Chromosomes are the program, the cause - the body is the output of the program, the effect. Sometimes theres a ‘bug’ in the ‘code’ - a defective Y chromosome, and that can cause a female body to be produced. The confusion is that, normally, when there’s no defect, a Y chromosome produces a male. But with people with DSDs, there are various ways the program can have bugs in it, and so there are various ways that the human body can be atypical sexually. So you have to just look at the body. The only way we know anything about chromosomes is by CORRELATING the chromosomes types to body types. But there are countless ways bodies can be mutated so you just have to look under the hood. This is the history of chromosomal testing - it’s always playing catch-up to phenotype inspection, the direct observation of the body. It’s the most accurate test. Look up the history of chromosomal testing and why it’s’ been abandoned.
Is it not strange (But just) That two blokes will be fighting for the womens medal ? Karma
Sex and gender are the same.
Why are you lying by calling him "she"?
#IOCHatesWomen
STOP calling he a "she".
This is not complex, DNA solves all the problems. What's so hard about that!
It should just be a cheek swab for chromosomes, women with high testosterone should not be discriminated against. That just reinforces the messy idea that women are merely hormone cocktails.
Yes they should we need to have a level playing field.
@crystalshadow
Would you apply that to hieght and bone density as well? How about the advantage dark skin gives to being in the sun? Do you keep anyone outside the bell curve from excelling?
@Woodrow0 The height and bone density issues is taken care of by weight categories. What can't be picked up is the advantage of reach apparently a male reach factor to height is more than double a females is. The punch force is 160% higher than a females is.
I am guessing an XY individual that has the external traits of a female hat birth would hove some level of these factors which would make it dangerous to perform against females. Testosterone is largely something that would increase through puberty and it would vary in levels in individuals who appear to be females based on visible genitalia with XY chromosomes.
Unfortunately this opens the door to use medication to increase levels of testosterone to abnormal high levels giving advantage.
You misunderstood my comments. And also seem to think all sports have weight categories for some reason.
Injave absolutely 0 interest in hearing from RMW. It also doesnt help that the hosts don't have a clue and open the segment by spouting complete nonsense.
Thank god for Emma Hilton.
Robin Moira White is clearer than the developmental biologist here! Dr Emma Hilton needs to speak more clearly and stop trying not to offend people.
More needs to be known about the individual DSD diagnosis as it can mean different things regarding whether male development took place. Definitely needs to be sorted BEFORE they go out into the ring. Social media just perpetuates false info.
A man with XY chromosomes. Very simple.
Yes, so simple. So why does the IOC rely on a passport to decide eligibility?
@@bevturner2258 he identifies as woman
@@susanna6826
And therein lies the problem. This person may well identify as a woman, that doesn’t change his biology. He has male hormones and has gone through puberty as a male. His testes may be inside his body but they are releasing testosterone just the same. If they weren’t, he’d have the physique of a woman. It’s not complicated.
A simple testosterone test would reveal if his levels were in the male range. A simple cheek swab would establish XY chromosomes (or not).
why did he not appeal there ban from the world boxing?
Russian lead federation of IBA??? Let's muddy the waters!! Mention Russia and use prejudice as an argument!!! WTF!
If you dont want your personal situations scrutinized maybe it's best not to compete in the Olympics
100%
Robin that`s a deep voice mate
Quite a normal voice, I would say. He is after all, a man - however he "feels", and despite his adoption of a woman's name.
@@993Redveg Just a bloke
Making judgements on appearance: you’re so wrong. If Khelif LOOKED female we wouldn’t be talking about her. It is our primal ability to tell male from female that got us here.
So, I have a genuine question here. Is Robin a male?
yep
Do you really need to ask? To use an old-fashioned phrase, it is "as plain as a pikestaff".
If it’s male, it’s male. End of story.
Robin lacks logic and common sense to be a barrister
Well, that was a waste of time, wasn't it. Trying to make something so simple sound 'complicated' in order to keep the lie going. The boxers are men with DSDs for anyone who doesn't know that yet.
What a coincidence! These two men will win the gold medal 🏅 in women's boxing! 😉😂🤣
Why throw up the accusation about the IBA only acting after Khelif beat a Russian boxer when you say you don't know if it's true. I've seen that allegation debunked. Simple sex test solves everything, both these boxers hiding those results speaks volumes, along with dropping or not putting in an appeal to their exclusion.
It’s not a gender debate, none of what happened for the last few years around women’s rights is about gender, it’s about sex. The class of sex, female and male, that’s it, the end……..
why are they calling the man 'she'?
It’s ridiculous! They’re afraid of being sued for not using preferred pronouns.
Why is it so hard to understand? The IOC needs to "man up" and organise sex testing. Over 80% of female athletes want it.
Khalife is a geezer
I dunno what to say. Robin is off his head.
I recall Eamon and Ruth talking bs when interviewing Kellie Jay Keen and India Willoughby on their then morning show
Notice the 2 nen talking over the women...
It’s a XY intersex. Not fair. All about money
The male commentator should shut up and let the expert speak.
So we must believe because apples coming from an apple tree are assigned apples they can assign themselves as an orange and be eligible for the orange juice Olympics.
Common sense and common decency has left the building in these Olympics. The Olympic committee is mentally disabled.
Crazy. Even the commentators have to xall him a woman for fear of being sued.
IBA is not a Russian organisation