Wow! What a collection of SWCCs! Well done, Alan! I also love the cabinets with tons of drawers! Great to have the video to show generations to come what generations before us accomplished!
Hi, I enjoyed your video. I never had too much to do with the master clocks, but was the Chief Engineer of a college radio station that had two of the hourly reset wall slave clocks and a "time tone" relay. I was told when I began there that the clock resets and relay were all in series and that if I left the loop broken (open) that other clocks in the village (at the railroad stations, etc) would not get a reset pulse either. After a little further investigation, I determined it was basically a normally open telegraph loop. (The loops used for sending telegrams and later teletypes, were, historically, normally closed, the current flowed except when the message was being sent.) The pulse was about 50 mA, standard telegraph line current. I'm told (I never measured it) the open circuit voltage applied to the loop was in the range of 100V, a resistor was placed in series with the loop to add enough resistance to get the 50 mA loop current. The resistance needed would vary with the length/gauge of the loop wiring and the number of clocks wired in series. (Teletype loops had open circuit voltages of 100 to 150VDC, I speak from experience you really knew it when your fingers went across a teletype loop, such as the radio station news wire, when working on the phone company cable termination. I also understand that at least in smaller Western Union offices, there was nothing automatic about resetting the office master clock to match the "Naval Observatory" time. Apparently, at noon each day, a message was sent to all the local offices, someone in the office was supposed to check that the master clock was correct and adjust as necessary. But at least by the 1960s, that step was often ignored, and the clocks would drift significantly. The first time my college station tried doing a timed network with another college station in the next village, we quickly found that our "Naval Observatory Time was 22 seconds different from theirs. A call to Western Union got that corrected the next day, within about a second, but the problem reoccurred regularly. Finally, in the early 1970s, we stopped getting the pulses at all and found the loop was open. A call to WU determined they had closed the local offices and discontinued the service. But unfortunately they most definitely wanted their clocks back (otherwise one would be hanging on my wall at home...) At the station, we installed clocks connected to a different master clock system in a nearby campus building.
Hi John, I appreciate hearing you experiences with these systems. As I understand much of the Western Union synchronized systems slowly disappeared by the 1970's. I have been told that many of the clocks just "mysteriously" disappeared. Too bad you didn't grab one. My clock synchronizers are all in series. I have 8 clocks in each loop and they sync on 24VDC. Fun stuff. Thank you for the recollections. Alan
Hello Allen. Love your vides and has taught me a lot so far. Question about the SWCC mentioned at 2:00. I have what appears to be the same one from my father. Mine has a C style rotary movement. The only information I have is that is has been mentioned as an 1884 Mod 62 (maybe from a catalog?). The one I have from my father runs wonderfully and keeps great time. Just waiting to get some more accurate/realistic No.6 batteries from Ken along with replacing the modern vinyl wiring with correct cloth covered wiring.
Great tour! I have a model 41 that is different from yours. Mine is round, wooden and measures about 19.75" in diameter. There are metal lugs on the front of the case that would indicate that it once held a fairly heavy dial. The dial is missing on my clock, but I've always wondered what it would have looked like.
Hi Alan. Can you tell me if the 'cog' on the main pinion that lifts and closes the electrical connection to wind the mainspring, should that be a friction fit on the shaft? Should it have some kind of tension spring so the cog will grip the shaft enough to rotate it to next peak on the cog initiating the winding again after 1hr? As it stands mine is just a loose fit on the pinion/shaft. I'm thinking it needs to have friction but has to turn when the bar/pin on the winding wheel pushes the cog just a bit to open the electrical winding contacts to stop the winding action? I wish I could include photos of mine. I have a type F movement. This is the only self winding clock I have worked on. I have cleaned and reassembled it so far. Thank you for any feedback you can offer!
Hi Colin, The "cog " should fit loosely. There is a pin on the center shaft that catches a pin on the cog and after running for an hour the cog has completed one revolution and will close the electrical winding contact to rewind the motor. Sounds like yours is just fine. The cog and an additional piece between the cog and the mainspring must be positioned correctly to maintain the spring pre wind. Hope this helps. I have a video that shows the movement rewinding. th-cam.com/video/8l7WNQiCE5U/w-d-xo.html You will appreciate these movements the more you work on them.
@@SelfWindingClocks Thanks for your reply Alan. I'm still not seeing how the cog can turn a full 360 degrees without tripping the contacts. The cog has multiple peaks so closing the circuit will happen several times causing a rewind. I wish I could send you a video or even photos that explain what's happening with mine. I've repaired thousands of antique clocks but this one is giving me the biggest challenge!!lol. One the center shaft was a bent 90 degree angled pin that I replaced with a straight pin. It was only a 1/4 inch pin and I could not see how that could engage anything else. Thanks for your replies and I'm hoping I'll have an ah ha eureka moment soon with your help!!
Hey Alan, I noticed you had an 8 pilot clock master from Standard Electric Time Co. I was wondering what voltage you used for the pilot circuits. I have a clock with 5 circuits and the clocks like to move to the half minute, I didnt know if it was just because I am using the wrong resistors, Currently using Dale 90 Ohm Resistors in series with each clock circuit, my clock is using 18v. On an old page Jeffery R Wood made he said to have a total of 200mA but I dont think I have it right, another clock owner has theirs at 24v @220 ohms in series! Thanks for any help! JMS
Hi John, My 8 pilot master is running slaves so no resistors. If no slaves are connected I use 180 ohm resistor for each circuit. My clock is running on 24VDC. Are you saying the pilots move only 1/2 minute per impulse? Have heard of SET masters that run on 12 and 24 volts but not 18. Maybe try running on 24 volts.
I meant they move 1 minutes worth but get out of sync. I recently changed it over from 90 ohms to 172 ohms on 18v which gives me around 100mA. 12, 16, 18 and 24 are common voltages for masters!
Seems to be working mildly better, I remember having a lot of problems with relay contact arcing so I added a diode flashback on each pilot, but still had arcing problems it was a whole ordeal, then a few months ago I realized I needed to lower the voltage, had it running on 5v for a while but then it kept going out of sync. Still not sure.
Great collection!
Thank you Robert. I am happy to share my passion.
Allen, thanks for the tour always love seeing your collection. I own 2 type f SWC clocks and am learning so much about them all the time.
Hi Dan, Thanks and the more time you spend learning about these movements the more you appreciate them.
Wow! What a collection of SWCCs! Well done, Alan! I also love the cabinets with tons of drawers! Great to have the video to show generations to come what generations before us accomplished!
I love your thought about sharing these great accomplishments with future generations. Thanks
Hi Alan, this is another very nice video of your beautiful clocks - Greetings form Hamburg, Thorsten
Thank you Thorsten
Excellent!!
Thank you Steve
Hi, I enjoyed your video. I never had too much to do with the master clocks, but was the Chief Engineer of a college radio station that had two of the hourly reset wall slave clocks and a "time tone" relay. I was told when I began there that the clock resets and relay were all in series and that if I left the loop broken (open) that other clocks in the village (at the railroad stations, etc) would not get a reset pulse either. After a little further investigation, I determined it was basically a normally open telegraph loop. (The loops used for sending telegrams and later teletypes, were, historically, normally closed, the current flowed except when the message was being sent.) The pulse was about 50 mA, standard telegraph line current. I'm told (I never measured it) the open circuit voltage applied to the loop was in the range of 100V, a resistor was placed in series with the loop to add enough resistance to get the 50 mA loop current. The resistance needed would vary with the length/gauge of the loop wiring and the number of clocks wired in series. (Teletype loops had open circuit voltages of 100 to 150VDC, I speak from experience you really knew it when your fingers went across a teletype loop, such as the radio station news wire, when working on the phone company cable termination.
I also understand that at least in smaller Western Union offices, there was nothing automatic about resetting the office master clock to match the "Naval Observatory" time. Apparently, at noon each day, a message was sent to all the local offices, someone in the office was supposed to check that the master clock was correct and adjust as necessary. But at least by the 1960s, that step was often ignored, and the clocks would drift significantly. The first time my college station tried doing a timed network with another college station in the next village, we quickly found that our "Naval Observatory Time was 22 seconds different from theirs. A call to Western Union got that corrected the next day, within about a second, but the problem reoccurred regularly. Finally, in the early 1970s, we stopped getting the pulses at all and found the loop was open. A call to WU determined they had closed the local offices and discontinued the service. But unfortunately they most definitely wanted their clocks back (otherwise one would be hanging on my wall at home...) At the station, we installed clocks connected to a different master clock system in a nearby campus building.
Hi John, I appreciate hearing you experiences with these systems. As I understand much of the Western Union synchronized systems slowly disappeared by the 1970's. I have been told that many of the clocks just "mysteriously" disappeared. Too bad you didn't grab one. My clock synchronizers are all in series. I have 8 clocks in each loop and they sync on 24VDC. Fun stuff. Thank you for the recollections. Alan
Hello Allen. Love your vides and has taught me a lot so far. Question about the SWCC mentioned at 2:00. I have what appears to be the same one from my father. Mine has a C style rotary movement. The only information I have is that is has been mentioned as an 1884 Mod 62 (maybe from a catalog?). The one I have from my father runs wonderfully and keeps great time. Just waiting to get some more accurate/realistic No.6 batteries from Ken along with replacing the modern vinyl wiring with correct cloth covered wiring.
Dan, what is the serial number of the C style rotary movement?
@@SelfWindingClocks Allen, the serial number on my C style rotary movement is 5666. This is on my fathers 1884 Mod 62
Very nice, thanks for showing. (I have a few European ones)
Thank you, if you have a few you are one of us. Keep adding more!
Great tour! I have a model 41 that is different from yours. Mine is round, wooden and measures about 19.75" in diameter. There are metal lugs on the front of the case that would indicate that it once held a fairly heavy dial. The dial is missing on my clock, but I've always wondered what it would have looked like.
I would love to see some photos of your clock. Alan jabloore@aol.com
Hi Alan. Can you tell me if the 'cog' on the main pinion that lifts and closes the electrical connection to wind the mainspring, should that be a friction fit on the shaft? Should it have some kind of tension spring so the cog will grip the shaft enough to rotate it to next peak on the cog initiating the winding again after 1hr? As it stands mine is just a loose fit on the pinion/shaft. I'm thinking it needs to have friction but has to turn when the bar/pin on the winding wheel pushes the cog just a bit to open the electrical winding contacts to stop the winding action? I wish I could include photos of mine. I have a type F movement. This is the only self winding clock I have worked on. I have cleaned and reassembled it so far. Thank you for any feedback you can offer!
Hi Colin, The "cog " should fit loosely. There is a pin on the center shaft that catches a pin on the cog and after running for an hour the cog has completed one revolution and will close the electrical winding contact to rewind the motor. Sounds like yours is just fine. The cog and an additional piece between the cog and the mainspring must be positioned correctly to maintain the spring pre wind. Hope this helps. I have a video that shows the movement rewinding. th-cam.com/video/8l7WNQiCE5U/w-d-xo.html You will appreciate these movements the more you work on them.
@@SelfWindingClocks Thanks for your reply Alan. I'm still not seeing how the cog can turn a full 360 degrees without tripping the contacts. The cog has multiple peaks so closing the circuit will happen several times causing a rewind. I wish I could send you a video or even photos that explain what's happening with mine. I've repaired thousands of antique clocks but this one is giving me the biggest challenge!!lol. One the center shaft was a bent 90 degree angled pin that I replaced with a straight pin. It was only a 1/4 inch pin and I could not see how that could engage anything else. Thanks for your replies and I'm hoping I'll have an ah ha eureka moment soon with your help!!
@@colinallison5307 Hi Colin, email me photos at jabloore@aol.com You may have a movement that winds every 6 seconds.
Curious if you ever offer any clocks for sale? Thanks, JC
Hi John,
No, I usually keep what I have. The day will come but not yet. Thank you for asking.
Do you have any Self Winding Clock Company clocks for sale? I also see a print on your wall from the 1893 Exposition! Nice!
No clocks for sale. Thanks for asking and thanks for viewing the video.
Hey Alan, I noticed you had an 8 pilot clock master from Standard Electric Time Co. I was wondering what voltage you used for the pilot circuits. I have a clock with 5 circuits and the clocks like to move to the half minute, I didnt know if it was just because I am using the wrong resistors, Currently using Dale 90 Ohm Resistors in series with each clock circuit, my clock is using 18v. On an old page Jeffery R Wood made he said to have a total of 200mA but I dont think I have it right, another clock owner has theirs at 24v @220 ohms in series! Thanks for any help! JMS
Hi John, My 8 pilot master is running slaves so no resistors. If no slaves are connected I use 180 ohm resistor for each circuit. My clock is running on 24VDC. Are you saying the pilots move only 1/2 minute per impulse? Have heard of SET masters that run on 12 and 24 volts but not 18. Maybe try running on 24 volts.
I meant they move 1 minutes worth but get out of sync. I recently changed it over from 90 ohms to 172 ohms on 18v which gives me around 100mA. 12, 16, 18 and 24 are common voltages for masters!
@@johnsidlauskas3838 Did the change in resistance solve the out of sync problem?
Seems to be working mildly better, I remember having a lot of problems with relay contact arcing so I added a diode flashback on each pilot, but still had arcing problems it was a whole ordeal, then a few months ago I realized I needed to lower the voltage, had it running on 5v for a while but then it kept going out of sync. Still not sure.
I also need to find a 2 mercurial Invar pendulum since my clock calls for one but my clock currently has the regular Bob.
Di you know what a 1898 New York self winding clock is worth? I can send pics
Hi Cindy, Send me pictures of the case and movement and I will see if I can find comparables. The more pictures the better. Alan- jabloore@aol.com
@@SelfWindingClocks ok ill get on that right away thank you.