@@AEON. you find the competitive option that isn't a blatant forgery of this system. technology, especially limited application technology, costs money.
It won't do 0402 as accurate as the stencil needs to be imho. Also, there would be the issue with vinyl thickness not neccessarily being what you want.
Oshstencil is great for cheap one off polymide stencils or really high quality stainless stencils. Totally worth it for the time savings even during prototyping. Ship really fast too.
This is phenomenal! I had never heard of this before your video. Thanks! Depending on the paint viscosity and the compatibility with thinners, it would be intriguing if this paint could be directly applied by an ink jet printer. You should take this out of the lab, apply it to a garment and send it down the runway.
This is unfortunately high voltage AC driven. I don't know if you want those electrodes near your body. They might come undone and start shocking the wearer. Some thing he didn't get into in the video are that this is more accurately called AC Electrolumenescence. LED are also electroluminescent devices., but the AC EL devices are cool because electrons and holes aren't actually injected from the electrodes into the photoactive material or phosphors to recombine like LEDs. The dielectric material simply blocks charge injection and only allows the photoactive material to only feel the electric field. The high strength electric field causes the electrons and holes trapped in defect states within the photoactive material to free themselves and shoot through the material like a bullet (many times faster than in LEDs). The kinetic energy is transferred to other electrons and they to become excited (impact ionization). The electrons and holes recombine as they travel across the thickness of the photoactive material and emit light. After a certain short amount of time the electrons and holes accumulate at the interfaces of the film (like a capacitor) and then the films reaches an equilibrium (becomes charged). At that point the device doesn't emit anymore light. To keep the devices emitting light the field is flipped at a rate such that the electrons and holes won't accumulate at the interfaces to much. In physics this charge transfer is called a displacement current. The way this differs from a capacitor is that it is losing energy to excite electrons into radiative energy states within the material. Something that most dielectric insulators don't have. P.S. Love your videos. I hope to have a home lab just like yours one day. I'm a Physics Ph.D. candidate researching Perovskite LEDs. They are cheap and easy to make in a simple lab. I can describe the process if you want to try it sometime.
Tech Ingredients, re: sending EL-painted garments down the runway - I stopped reading about the physics as soon as I pictured the models tearing malfunctioning electrical clothing off of their bodies. Smoking hot!
EL TIPS: EL emits light only during voltage change. Square wave is not very efficient, light flashes on only during rise & fall. Trapezoid is better. Most efficient drive waveform is Triangle, but with the sharp "tips" of the triangle rounded or flattened (the sharp "tip" of the triangle waveform creates a large current / EMI spike). There is also a maximum optimal frequency, after which the light goes down, the current & heat go up. For best efficiency, use a silver substrate (i.e. silver ink or plating). The best clear conductor is Orgacon (now from Agfa, originally from Sylvania). EL lights are not that efficient or bright. The Higher the Brightness, the shorter the life (days or weeks). Run at very low Brightness (current) they can run for decades. Brightness is proportional to P-P Voltage. Lifetime also depends on the dielectric and the substrate heat dissipation. The operating voltage is typically between 200 ~ 400 Vp-p I used to design power supplies for these around 2006 for a company making large EL sheets with silk screen printers for advertising displays.
@@4.0.4 No, a Trapezoid with a very short time flat Top & Bottom. Less EMI & current spike if the tiny flat is actually an arc, like the top of a sine wave. A sine wave is still more efficient at generating light than a fast Tr/Tf square wave, but causes more heating. Tested: saw-tooth waves , parabolic waves, hemispheric waves, etc., the Triangle won above all of them. FYI: The EL is a capacitor (300 nF) depending on dielectric and area. This can be measured fairly accurately with a HV DC power supply , a series resistor and a scope. Many "capacitance" meters will give incorrect results. The "ramp" of the triangle (or trapezoid) should be flat, which means that the power source should provide a constant current.
@@mikeguitar9769 A triangle wave like this: th-cam.com/video/L5MMcVzhDRI/w-d-xo.html Play to the end to see the peaks sharpening. This should be the current waveform for maximum EL efficiency.
@@shazam6274 If light is only produced by leakage, wouldn't it be a good idea to let the EL capacitance resonate on a specified frequency to use the supplied energy spikes more efficiently over several periods. Just charging and discharging by switching voltages (square-wave) or switching constant-currents (triangle-wave/saw-tooth) may be a big part of the inefficiency. So I would expect better results by combining it with an inductor to let it resonate at a favorable frequency (maybe to control efficiency, power transfer and dampening) after a periodically applied charging current (limited) to the LC-circuit. Maybe it also needs to be sychronized...but it should do the low-pass filtering by itself! Does anyone drive EL displays that way?
You are just mind-blowing! I find every video you make, and the extent of your interests, incredible!! Thank you for this amazing and inspirational (and educational) channel.
I've seen cars painted with this stuff, it's definitely a trip to see. You always do experiments with the coolest most interesting things Ben. Your uploads never disappoint. Thanks.
This technology has been in use for a while in the aviation business--mostly for position/navigation lighting on military aircraft. Its lower brightness is perfect for close-quarters, tactical flying and air-to-air refueling at night. It is super light in weight when compared to incandescent, fluorescent, LED, and LCD lighting. It's also quite rugged. Very cool stuff. Thanks for the great video!
a) Wonderful video as usual, Ben! b) A note for those who have mentioned laser cut solder stencils, I agree that they're often not optimal. For small jobs, a friend of mine and I worked out a process to use post-it notes as solder stencils instead of kapton. 3M makes a post-it that is fully coated in adhesive (instead of just along one side). We used a 45W laser to raster scan various stack-ups of notes on an aluminum base. Assume the bottom note will be sacrificial, then peel up the top one or two notes--2 seemed to be about the right thickness. If you tweak the settings in, accuracy is quite good. We did 0402 and 0.5 mm pitch QFP with good reliability. Using a plastic squeegee and well-cleaned boards, we were able to get a dozen PCBs out of a stencil. Using a stick on stencil is nice. Once you get it aligned and stuck down, it's not going anywhere.
I wonder if you could "spray" the display directly onto a PCB? So the first capacitive layer would be an exposed PCB pad. Would make the wiring a lot easier and maybe allow more complex figures or other cool stuff.
You just gave me the most epic idea! Imagine painting PCBs with this before finally sealing them so that you could have gaming (or any on show build) have its hardware light up according to IRQ calls/link power to the painted PCB so that whenever a particular process runs it lights up (you make the power assignable to whatever process you want). In time you could even have it so your hardware glows red when you die in a game or get an email. I know something similar could be done with regular lighting but this would look totally different. Just an idea
@@Steve_Just_Steve but it's be under the usual insulating layer (just make sure it's transparent). I'm just thinking of it as a commercial option, not really for a personal project - I should've made that more clear.
@@lank_asif I don't game so don't really no what I'm talking about, just thinking about how a radio or remote control buttons wear from use. I would think a controller would be much worse especially at the rate some of you play those things.
Paint lines on roadways to be seen through snow or wet weather, or to light up directional arrows on hallway floors to show the proper direction to travel, after they walked through the diagnostic people cat scanner placed at the hospital entrance. Or to luminate at broken connection points on types of conduits or aerospace vessel and plane hulls for repairs. Or your speaker enclosures and wall paper just got alot cooler.
Pretty sure someone had this idea about 10-12 years ago. They perfected the concept using fade-resistant paints printed (as you said) on existing ink jet printers on various substrate lattices. The result is the very wonderful OLED technology we enjoy today. Just to be clear, this is not meant as a mocking comment. You have a good idea, and if you had it 20 years ago, you could have been rich today. Keep thinking those good thoughts.
My notifications got messed up and still managed to not miss a video. This was one of my favorite ones yet. I've been really interested in this paint, but it seemed like it would be really expensive. $400 for everything is cheap. I would like to see more video of what you made with it, maybe put this paint into a new project. I don't care if it's just painting a fitting or a custom decal on a project box. I always appreciate how much work you put it and the research you do that most other youtubers don't bother to. The King of Random hits Wikipedia for five minutes not even checking sources, while you seem to research scholarly articles and patents for a month. Thanks for sharing, awesome video as always!
"ITO" at 4:52 is indium-tin-oxide for anyone who is wondering. It is the go to transparent conductive coating, used for transparent deicing heaters on aircraft windshields, electronic displays, miscellaneous optoetelectronics, etc. It is usually deposited by essentially evaporating it and and then condensing the vapor on a substrate. Pretty energy intensive and expensive for large substrates as you will typically need to do the deposition under vacuum.
Amazing! First of all, you are so -so smart but also your way of explanation is direct and quick, not any bla-bla-blaa and not fasting time. You are the gift for all us!
Fantastic! I find so many pearls in the subtext of your videos. The displays and drive circuitry on their own are amazing, but so many other little things. Just seeing you harvest parts from the AdaFruit Trinket. I'm not sure I would have tried that. I had no idea the parts would survive the heat, or come off so clean! There's more, but I'm going to stop gushing and just say thanks (again) for your attention to detail on such an excellent subject. Well done!
7:24 And that's a childhood question answered: why did all my backlit alarm clocks and watches make that weird whistling sound? Obviously, they had electroluminescent backlighting. And that's another reason I love this channel.
Is the EL paint transparent? Because then you could put on a layer of clear coat followed by a transparent conductive layer and and another EL display to create a multi color setup.
I tried to make a transparent display, but ran into a bunch of problems. The electrodes are actually the easiest part since it is a water-based liquid, and it's just sprayed on, so no problems there. The dielectric layer is barium titanate, chosen for its ultra high dielectric constant. Not many other materials come close. However, I tried polyvinyl alcohol, which is sold as "PVA mold release" in a water-based solution. I sprayed it over the dry PEDOT:PSS electrode, and found that it mixed with the electrode (disastrous). The phosphor itself is not clear either, so there are a bunch of problems. Probably easier to try building an OLED instead of EL if you want a transparent display.
So with "multi color setup" you meant more like a multi-shape setup, where you can drive different patterns on the same area!? As Ben already explained, it would be infeasable to layer multiple "capacitors" on top of eachother, but one might try to fully coat an area with the dielectric+phosphor and then coat the top (clear) conductive layer in a pattern (maybe with some interconnections for islands and stuff), followed by a thin insulating (clear) layer, followed by another top conductive layer in another pattern. That could potentially produce 2 overlapping patterns for the same color. Maybe the upper top layer wouldn't work as well as a capacitor plate anymore after insulating it from lower layers, but it's worth a try! ;-) You might could achieve this easier by dividing both patterns into segments for only one top conductive layer and trying to connect to them individually with traces (like with LCDs). Multi-color might be achievable with a fine RGB-raster-grid, but I'm more curious about mixing single colors (phosphors) to achieve different (perceived) colors!?
That is skookum as frig!! I can't imagine why anyone would click thumbs down?!?!?! I thought it was awesome when I came across paint that could have an electrical circuit ran under it and here you are casually making an electroluminescent tv. You're the man man!!!
This channel is the only one that surprises me in variety, creativity and expertise. Keep it the deep explanation as other channels skip the process for some reason. Great video!
Watching these videos makes me feel so humble. In my current level of expertise I might use an Adafruit Trinket to do something simple. In Ben's god-level expertise he uses individual components of a disassembled Trinket to do something mindblowing.
This man is the reason why Hollywood films depict a common engineer can do anything.. I mean he literally does everything! this time two videos a week.. man! (not complaining at all :) )
16:33 great choice for the first very famous images seen on your bespoke display, I shall now obsess of your channel and all your works for you are obviously an unsung genius of our time, and must be studied.
I'm continually SO impressed by Ben and his channel. That solution to change the timing is absolutely brilliant and I would never have figured that out. I am constantly learning new things here.
Been meaning to do a detailed look at the commercial electroluminescent wire for some time now. Did all the measurements and tests but just never made the time to do the video. Great to see the work you have done. No way will I ever spend that kind of money on an experiment so thanks for putting it out.
you are a pioneer in the future of dielectric circuit boards in geometry and oxides. i am youre grandpa. i know nothing. but i made this like a mateur would do with simpler méthodes. you are on the right track...10x old Jedi. rire bat,caps,resitence,coils,oxides, .002 to.08mm etc. geometry engeneering code//fields interaction/// drawing the nature code...coils on pages etc... 101 layers...
I love that you mention Paul. I've been looking through pjrc.com since probably 2001, when I was going to Wichita State University. The man is awesome. I built an MP3 player from his design back in 2002. That thing, which I still have. It blew people's minds. It's still an awesome piece of homebrew engineering.
Just make a giant 7 segment or a character segment display! I have been thinking about doing something with electroluminescent paint these days, and you happened to make a video about it. You rock!
I had no idea the HV chips existed. I've made displays using triac pairs switching a standard driver, but there are big issues running an EL driver with variable loads. They'll shut down if the capacitance is too high, or low, so switching everything on or off can cause unexpected issues. This is a really neat solution.
This is fucking impressive, I am blown away by how cool this is! Makes me wish I could afford all the materials to make my own. I think it's awesome you went the extra mile to make your own driver circuit too. Kudos!
Ok, THIS is the coolest thing I've ever seen, displacing the previous coolest thing I've ever seen. I need to get some of this paint! You are a Jedi master, my friend.
This is more accurately called AC Electrolumenescence. LED are also electroluminescent devices. The AC EL devices are cool because electrons and holes aren't actually injected into the photoactive material or phosphors to recombine like LEDs. The dielectric material simply blocks charge injection and only allows the photoactive material to only feel the electric field. The high strength electric field causes the electrons and holes trapped in defect states within the material to free themselves and fly through the material like a bullet through a watermelon. Kinetic energy is transferred to other electrons and they to become excited (impact ionization). The electrons and holes recombine as they travel across the thickness of the film and emit light. After a certain short amount of time the electrons and holes accumulate at the interfaces of the film (like a capacitor) and then the films reaches an equilibrium (becomes charged). To keep the devices emitting light the field is flipped at a rate such that the electrons and holes won't begin to accumulate at the surfaces. In physics this charge transfer is called a displacement current. The way this differs from a capacitor is by losing energy to excite electrons into radiative energy states within the material. Something that most dielectric insulators don't have.
I smell an opportunity for a pretty dang decent DSKY replica here. It would be a nice application - check out Fran Blanche's Apollo DSKY videos for reference! Nothing else readily available on the market really compares to what it had.
Try refilling inkjet/bubblejet cartridges with this kit and printing on transparency film. You might be able to print custom displays with off an off the shelf printer! I can't see very many reasons why it wouldn't work. It might rapidly plug the print heads, and the conductive components could mess something up. I'm not extremely familiar with the details of inkjet printers, but I know many of them have four different color cartridges. You might also have issues with the yellow dot codes they print on everything to trace counterfeit money causing shorts, though. If that's the case you may be able to clear the shorts by pulsing the display with a few extra amps to vaporize any shorts. Since you need to print one component at a time you'll have to make four different images to print on the same page, one after the other in four passes. If the dots cause a problem, it can be solved if you find a printer that will run with a single cartridge, but it would be ideal if you didn't have to swap cartridges between passes.
This is so inspiring. I tried make a simple EL light some time ago and had little success. I was using regular paint brushes on an ITO sheet as substrate and copper tape as the other electrode. Almost all of them short circuited. This is so neat and clean. Btw, I could find cheaper version of the same material on ebay.
This is really cool. A few years back I tried making a custom EL driver that would eliminate the audible noise- in my case it was for costuming a rock band and the EL driver noise would be picked up by microphones and especially guitar pickups. Whenever I increased the frequency above about 10khz the brightness would fall off and I came to the conclusion that the phosphor needed the lower frequency. I guess I was wrong, it must have been a limitation of the transformers. You going to be selling this driver? You could take over the market, no one else has anything like it (last time I looked).
You need to be running a sine wave, not square wave as sine eliminates 90% of the audible noise and increase lamp life. Both the voltage and the frequency dictate brightness and color hue. Triphosphorus White EL lamps can change over a wide color gamut by just changing the frequency as they use multiple phosphors that emit at different optimal frequencys. Single phosphor White lamps are made with a fluorescent layer printed on a single Blue/Green phospor layer to shift part of the light output from blue/green EL to White. The voltage can be 80-160v RMS at anywhere from 400 Hz to 1.6 Khz with and average of 800 Hz for most white lamps.
Benefits of time-off-from-work this week. I think one video per month seems to be a good normal pace for me, and I can keep the quality high at that level.
$500! Bloody hell! When you said that it is very expensive, you weren't kidding. I definitely won't be buying any of it any time soon (or ever probably).
So got here as a side channel rabbit hole from so misc project ideas/thoughts and I am so far out of my depth through this video but very cool and impressive stuff. Wish I has a better grasp on it to understand possible application/limits but I don't even know where to start.
The entire time I was watching this I was thinking to myself, 'I'd have to figure out how to run video on that cross matrix and I'd totally have to rickroll people with it.' And sure enough that's exactly what you did. INSTANT like & sub from me. Keep of the great work!
So very cool! I was working with EL lamps (screen printed process). being able to rapidly prototype or one-off is awesome! love that you have given the driver whistle the boot as well.. amazing thank you!
Despite the video used to demonstrate the video potential, that is fricken awesome. You got my head rolling at all the possible potentials. I was gonna suggest the 3-states, but rather than three states, why not a sub-latching driver. Use your 64 channel, then do a full single state switch. Kinda like a buffer. Nice coding too. Curious if some available library's such as Max 7219's; I see they would require a fancy circuit to make them work. However, fricken awesome dude. Thanks again
Got some questions… Do you change the cup or clean the spray pens cup after every paint? Will that still work despite using a small compressor for the spray pen? And What other challenges did you face that you think is important to know when conducting this on a pliable substrate for the first time? Thanks!
You have been tasked with the mission involved in the creation of Paul McCartney's first and next electroluminescent guitar. He just said that it should be a 4 tone bluish orange combination appearing to scroll the notes and lyrics of the music, and this needs to be completed by next week to keep it all the tour schedule. The world tour and all its fans are depending on you from this point forward so please don't let them down, though please remain calm in spite of the sheer magnitude of such a monumental task of entirely colossal proportions. You will be paid 405 million US dollars.
was wondering how to control my el wire brightness and make it quieter, definitely going to be referencing this! When I'm a millionaire, I'd like to paint a blue stripe along the side of a car with this paint, on gloss black
Amazing what you can do with a Trinket and a few brain cells, LadyAda would be proud of you! Possibly the most thought and effort put into Rickrolling.....ever! You always amaze me with your ideas and the effort put in to bring them to fruition, bet you picked up lots of new subs with this one
I can imagine modular synthesizers painted with this paint, controlling it wit CV, basically mapping the modules like laser projections on big festival speakers
Only 1/3 the way through the video but WOW!! I used to painstakingly screen print a mixture of 5-minute epoxy and GE EL phosphor onto Southwall Technologies' ITO film, then screen print Dupont silver conductor composition over that. Worked great but at 60Hz I had to use 600V to get them to be bright, not like today's high frequency drivers.
Find an old CRT TV and harvest the phosphor out of it to use as EL paint ! Mix the phosphor with something else as a carrier then use vapor deposition to deposit conductors on the top with areas masked as needed. And you can get red / green / blue if you can separate the phosphors somehow or white from an old B&W TV.
This is truly the most incredible, inspiring, and just endlessly fascinating source of engineering & physical science ideas. You are such a genius and such a committed and clear communicator. Thank you for all your work!
Jolly Joy ...i was looking for a black light ;) They have cool tech out there if you look. Forget what its called but they make metal sheet and wire that bends to a predetermined shape when electric current is applied to it....like say your fender on your car gets a dent, hook up a battery and cables to the sheet metal and it will bend back to a dentless fender.
I was staring so intently only to be rickrolled. Love it!
You need to put some of this on your shop toys to try and one up AvE. He doesn't have a glowing CNC machine.........yet.
i just use hyperdrive waste from your space workshop to achieve a similar effect.
@@AEON. you find the competitive option that isn't a blatant forgery of this system. technology, especially limited application technology, costs money.
You know the rules, and so does he ;)
You can do better than this to illuminate your your C&C. Use cherenkov radiation instead.
That is the most intricate and convoluted Rick Roll I have ever received. Thank You.
hehe im not even mad it was impressive
No need for paste dispensing - you have a silhouette vinyl cutter - these make very useable SMD stencils using polyester film
It won't do 0402 as accurate as the stencil needs to be imho. Also, there would be the issue with vinyl thickness not neccessarily being what you want.
Laser cut stencil?
@@einball they do make a stencil material that is 10mil thickness
Oshstencil is great for cheap one off polymide stencils or really high quality stainless stencils. Totally worth it for the time savings even during prototyping. Ship really fast too.
What size polyester film are you using, also do you know the type of hotplate hes using for quick removal?
This is phenomenal!
I had never heard of this before your video. Thanks!
Depending on the paint viscosity and the compatibility with thinners, it would be intriguing if this paint could be directly applied by an ink jet printer.
You should take this out of the lab, apply it to a garment and send it down the runway.
yes, you would only need to cater the delivery of each chemical to the paper or material. switchable cartridges, sure
This is unfortunately high voltage AC driven. I don't know if you want those electrodes near your body. They might come undone and start shocking the wearer. Some thing he didn't get into in the video are that this is more accurately called AC Electrolumenescence. LED are also electroluminescent devices., but the AC EL devices are cool because electrons and holes aren't actually injected from the electrodes into the photoactive material or phosphors to recombine like LEDs. The dielectric material simply blocks charge injection and only allows the photoactive material to only feel the electric field. The high strength electric field causes the electrons and holes trapped in defect states within the photoactive material to free themselves and shoot through the material like a bullet (many times faster than in LEDs). The kinetic energy is transferred to other electrons and they to become excited (impact ionization). The electrons and holes recombine as they travel across the thickness of the photoactive material and emit light. After a certain short amount of time the electrons and holes accumulate at the interfaces of the film (like a capacitor) and then the films reaches an equilibrium (becomes charged). At that point the device doesn't emit anymore light. To keep the devices emitting light the field is flipped at a rate such that the electrons and holes won't accumulate at the interfaces to much. In physics this charge transfer is called a displacement current. The way this differs from a capacitor is that it is losing energy to excite electrons into radiative energy states within the material. Something that most dielectric insulators don't have.
P.S. Love your videos. I hope to have a home lab just like yours one day. I'm a Physics Ph.D. candidate researching Perovskite LEDs. They are cheap and easy to make in a simple lab. I can describe the process if you want to try it sometime.
I have used those el transformers. The shocks from them aren't that bad
Tech Ingredients, re: sending EL-painted garments down the runway - I stopped reading about the physics as soon as I pictured the models tearing malfunctioning electrical clothing off of their bodies. Smoking hot!
@@johnnyhammersticks1695 describe the perovskite led process, please!
EL TIPS: EL emits light only during voltage change. Square wave is not very efficient, light flashes on only during rise & fall. Trapezoid is better. Most efficient drive waveform is Triangle, but with the sharp "tips" of the triangle rounded or flattened (the sharp "tip" of the triangle waveform creates a large current / EMI spike). There is also a maximum optimal frequency, after which the light goes down, the current & heat go up.
For best efficiency, use a silver substrate (i.e. silver ink or plating). The best clear conductor is Orgacon (now from Agfa, originally from Sylvania). EL lights are not that efficient or bright. The Higher the Brightness, the shorter the life (days or weeks). Run at very low Brightness (current) they can run for decades. Brightness is proportional to P-P Voltage. Lifetime also depends on the dielectric and the substrate heat dissipation. The operating voltage is typically between 200 ~ 400 Vp-p
I used to design power supplies for these around 2006 for a company making large EL sheets with silk screen printers for advertising displays.
A rounded triangle wave? You mean a sine wave?
@@4.0.4 No, a Trapezoid with a very short time flat Top & Bottom. Less EMI & current spike if the tiny flat is actually an arc, like the top of a sine wave. A sine wave is still more efficient at generating light than a fast Tr/Tf square wave, but causes more heating. Tested: saw-tooth waves , parabolic waves, hemispheric waves, etc., the Triangle won above all of them. FYI: The EL is a capacitor (300 nF) depending on dielectric and area. This can be measured fairly accurately with a HV DC power supply , a series resistor and a scope. Many "capacitance" meters will give incorrect results. The "ramp" of the triangle (or trapezoid) should be flat, which means that the power source should provide a constant current.
@@shazam6274 I think you're talking about bandwidth-limited or low-pass filtered or signals omitting the higher harmonics.
@@mikeguitar9769 A triangle wave like this: th-cam.com/video/L5MMcVzhDRI/w-d-xo.html Play to the end to see the peaks sharpening. This should be the current waveform for maximum EL efficiency.
@@shazam6274 If light is only produced by leakage, wouldn't it be a good idea to let the EL capacitance resonate on a specified frequency to use the supplied energy spikes more efficiently over several periods.
Just charging and discharging by switching voltages (square-wave) or switching constant-currents (triangle-wave/saw-tooth) may be a big part of the inefficiency.
So I would expect better results by combining it with an inductor to let it resonate at a favorable frequency (maybe to control efficiency, power transfer and dampening) after a periodically applied charging current (limited) to the LC-circuit. Maybe it also needs to be sychronized...but it should do the low-pass filtering by itself!
Does anyone drive EL displays that way?
you are probably the smartest person I have come across. you also must be either be very patient or cuss a lot.
You are just mind-blowing! I find every video you make, and the extent of your interests, incredible!! Thank you for this amazing and inspirational (and educational) channel.
I think the same. Could not express it that good.
What Lank said
Echo what Lank Asif said, only adding some extra Wows!
Easily most detailed, intresting and Professional TH-cam-channel.
I've seen cars painted with this stuff, it's definitely a trip to see. You always do experiments with the coolest most interesting things Ben. Your uploads never disappoint. Thanks.
Yea I was lucky enough to see a car that had this stuff on it and it's definitely a head turner.
Would be cool to apply the layers in reverse and paint the inside of a glass or vase.
This technology has been in use for a while in the aviation business--mostly for position/navigation lighting on military aircraft. Its lower brightness is perfect for close-quarters, tactical flying and air-to-air refueling at night. It is super light in weight when compared to incandescent, fluorescent, LED, and LCD lighting. It's also quite rugged. Very cool stuff. Thanks for the great video!
a) Wonderful video as usual, Ben!
b) A note for those who have mentioned laser cut solder stencils, I agree that they're often not optimal. For small jobs, a friend of mine and I worked out a process to use post-it notes as solder stencils instead of kapton. 3M makes a post-it that is fully coated in adhesive (instead of just along one side). We used a 45W laser to raster scan various stack-ups of notes on an aluminum base. Assume the bottom note will be sacrificial, then peel up the top one or two notes--2 seemed to be about the right thickness. If you tweak the settings in, accuracy is quite good. We did 0402 and 0.5 mm pitch QFP with good reliability.
Using a plastic squeegee and well-cleaned boards, we were able to get a dozen PCBs out of a stencil. Using a stick on stencil is nice. Once you get it aligned and stuck down, it's not going anywhere.
I wonder if you could "spray" the display directly onto a PCB? So the first capacitive layer would be an exposed PCB pad. Would make the wiring a lot easier and maybe allow more complex figures or other cool stuff.
I don't see why that shouldn't work. Just leave a second trace exposed to connect the top layer.
You just gave me the most epic idea! Imagine painting PCBs with this before finally sealing them so that you could have gaming (or any on show build) have its hardware light up according to IRQ calls/link power to the painted PCB so that whenever a particular process runs it lights up (you make the power assignable to whatever process you want). In time you could even have it so your hardware glows red when you die in a game or get an email. I know something similar could be done with regular lighting but this would look totally different.
Just an idea
@@lank_asif Would prob wear off pretty quick and or shock you.
@@Steve_Just_Steve but it's be under the usual insulating layer (just make sure it's transparent). I'm just thinking of it as a commercial option, not really for a personal project - I should've made that more clear.
@@lank_asif I don't game so don't really no what I'm talking about, just thinking about how a radio or remote control buttons wear from use. I would think a controller would be much worse especially at the rate some of you play those things.
So needs to be inkjet inks! Just print the layers. I also suppose that silkscreen would work too. Cool stuff. Wish it were cheaper..
Paint lines on roadways to be seen through snow or wet weather, or to light up directional arrows on hallway floors to show the proper direction to travel, after they walked through the diagnostic people cat scanner placed at the hospital entrance. Or to luminate at broken connection points on types of conduits or aerospace vessel and plane hulls for repairs. Or your speaker enclosures and wall paper just got alot cooler.
@@truetech4158 They have a limited run life, not very practical for anything long term.
@@truetech4158 Sounds like you just reinvented the defunct solar roadway my man.
Fran Blanche was working on an authentic DSKY using silkscreen... I not sure how far she's got into the project yet though.
Pretty sure someone had this idea about 10-12 years ago. They perfected the concept using fade-resistant paints printed (as you said) on existing ink jet printers on various substrate lattices. The result is the very wonderful OLED technology we enjoy today.
Just to be clear, this is not meant as a mocking comment. You have a good idea, and if you had it 20 years ago, you could have been rich today. Keep thinking those good thoughts.
Whenever I watch your videos, I always end up feeling like a waste of space. Your talent and drive are something to behold.
I understood about 9 words of whatever language you were speaking, but I listened intently for the entire video.
My notifications got messed up and still managed to not miss a video. This was one of my favorite ones yet. I've been really interested in this paint, but it seemed like it would be really expensive. $400 for everything is cheap. I would like to see more video of what you made with it, maybe put this paint into a new project. I don't care if it's just painting a fitting or a custom decal on a project box. I always appreciate how much work you put it and the research you do that most other youtubers don't bother to. The King of Random hits Wikipedia for five minutes not even checking sources, while you seem to research scholarly articles and patents for a month. Thanks for sharing, awesome video as always!
"ITO" at 4:52 is indium-tin-oxide for anyone who is wondering. It is the go to transparent conductive coating, used for transparent deicing heaters on aircraft windshields, electronic displays, miscellaneous optoetelectronics, etc. It is usually deposited by essentially evaporating it and and then condensing the vapor on a substrate. Pretty energy intensive and expensive for large substrates as you will typically need to do the deposition under vacuum.
Amazing! First of all, you are so -so smart but also your way of explanation is direct and quick, not any bla-bla-blaa and not fasting time. You are the gift for all us!
2 videos? 😱 I always love them and want to thank you very much for making them
The other guy have more thumbs up. You where too late!
The level of science you do in your garage, is outstanding. Thanks for that. Learning more here than I could in many universities out there.
Is this man a god?
Chemical, electrical, coding all in 20 mins. Advanced stuff as well!
That half life lambda is very apt, you post very rarely but when you do its always solid gold
great video, i was totally unaware they made EL paint!
Fantastic! I find so many pearls in the subtext of your videos. The displays and drive circuitry on their own are amazing, but so many other little things. Just seeing you harvest parts from the AdaFruit Trinket. I'm not sure I would have tried that. I had no idea the parts would survive the heat, or come off so clean! There's more, but I'm going to stop gushing and just say thanks (again) for your attention to detail on such an excellent subject. Well done!
Your videos inspire me to stick with hard projects and see them through. The DSKY was unbelievable!
Your videos make me feel humble... I used to think I was a know-it-all, but you sure fixed me!
7:24 And that's a childhood question answered: why did all my backlit alarm clocks and watches make that weird whistling sound? Obviously, they had electroluminescent backlighting. And that's another reason I love this channel.
Is the EL paint transparent? Because then you could put on a layer of clear coat followed by a transparent conductive layer and and another EL display to create a multi color setup.
I tried to make a transparent display, but ran into a bunch of problems. The electrodes are actually the easiest part since it is a water-based liquid, and it's just sprayed on, so no problems there. The dielectric layer is barium titanate, chosen for its ultra high dielectric constant. Not many other materials come close. However, I tried polyvinyl alcohol, which is sold as "PVA mold release" in a water-based solution. I sprayed it over the dry PEDOT:PSS electrode, and found that it mixed with the electrode (disastrous). The phosphor itself is not clear either, so there are a bunch of problems. Probably easier to try building an OLED instead of EL if you want a transparent display.
@@AppliedScience Sounds like it's not gonna work, or at least it won't be easy.
@@AppliedScience OLED paint next project?
@@AppliedScience Transparent EL is screen printed on the front and rear of a transparent polymer dielectric film.
So with "multi color setup" you meant more like a multi-shape setup, where you can drive different patterns on the same area!?
As Ben already explained, it would be infeasable to layer multiple "capacitors" on top of eachother, but one might try to fully coat an area with the dielectric+phosphor and then coat the top (clear) conductive layer in a pattern (maybe with some interconnections for islands and stuff), followed by a thin insulating (clear) layer, followed by another top conductive layer in another pattern.
That could potentially produce 2 overlapping patterns for the same color. Maybe the upper top layer wouldn't work as well as a capacitor plate anymore after insulating it from lower layers, but it's worth a try! ;-)
You might could achieve this easier by dividing both patterns into segments for only one top conductive layer and trying to connect to them individually with traces (like with LCDs).
Multi-color might be achievable with a fine RGB-raster-grid, but I'm more curious about mixing single colors (phosphors) to achieve different (perceived) colors!?
That is skookum as frig!! I can't imagine why anyone would click thumbs down?!?!?! I thought it was awesome when I came across paint that could have an electrical circuit ran under it and here you are casually making an electroluminescent tv. You're the man man!!!
This channel is the only one that surprises me in variety, creativity and expertise. Keep it the deep explanation as other channels skip the process for some reason. Great video!
I am somewhat ashamed to call myself an engineer every time I watch your channel. You are just on a different level; truly inspiring.
Last semester I finished my undergrad making OLED devices and this is amazing. I don’t know how I didn’t come across this!
Watching these videos makes me feel so humble. In my current level of expertise I might use an Adafruit Trinket to do something simple. In Ben's god-level expertise he uses individual components of a disassembled Trinket to do something mindblowing.
Well, that price tag definitely puts it out of my aimless tinkering budget for now. Thanks for giving me a chance to see it.
This man is the reason why Hollywood films depict a common engineer can do anything.. I mean he literally does everything! this time two videos a week.. man! (not complaining at all :) )
16:33 great choice for the first very famous images seen on your bespoke display, I shall now obsess of your channel and all your works for you are obviously an unsung genius of our time, and must be studied.
This is absolutely incredible. I’m an electrical engineering undergrad, and I can’t wait until we are able to paint displays on things!
I'm continually SO impressed by Ben and his channel. That solution to change the timing is absolutely brilliant and I would never have figured that out. I am constantly learning new things here.
Been meaning to do a detailed look at the commercial electroluminescent wire for some time now. Did all the measurements and tests but just never made the time to do the video. Great to see the work you have done. No way will I ever spend that kind of money on an experiment so thanks for putting it out.
You're hell of a genius man. You not only your material sciences but electronics as well. I wonder how did you learn all that and with so much detail.
I am really glad that I found your channel.
Was I just Rickrolled by a homemade electroluminescent display?
That was cool. Keep up the good work. :)
You are such a wealth of knowledge. I feel like you could start 10 companies
you are a pioneer in the future of dielectric circuit boards in geometry and oxides. i am youre grandpa. i know nothing. but i made this like a mateur would do with simpler méthodes. you are on the right track...10x old Jedi. rire bat,caps,resitence,coils,oxides, .002 to.08mm etc. geometry engeneering code//fields interaction/// drawing the nature code...coils on pages etc... 101 layers...
The most hilarious way I got Rickrolled ever.
electrick lumrollescent , or electroll lumrickescent?
this is my least expected youtube channel to be rickrolled from
got me good
The best way it could ever be done.
Cut to source code -- dead pan: "Okay, let's talk about the firmware."
Cannot be mad when Ben Krasnow does it.
Each of Ben's project is far of for anyone, amazing that someone can come up with all of his stuff
So rad!!!!!!
I would love to learn how to use this system.
My imagination is bursting with different ideas on how to implement style paint.
The orange colour is as if developed JUST FOR that Half-life lambda (λ) logo. Perfect!
Awesome tutorial, man! Love your content.
Im glad there's people this smart on this planet.
Your SMD skills are astonishing
Honestly, coil whine has prevented me from using el wire in the past, so this driver is awesome.
Clearly you've taken EL Tech to a new level. Displaying a recognizable video to a EL Matrix Display is incredible. :) I tip my hat to you sir!
I love that you mention Paul. I've been looking through pjrc.com since probably 2001, when I was going to Wichita State University. The man is awesome.
I built an MP3 player from his design back in 2002. That thing, which I still have. It blew people's minds. It's still an awesome piece of homebrew engineering.
Absolutely Brilliant Man.
Your graphics are comparable to those on those science fiction programs.
wow...my mind is blown again and again as the video progresses.
Esp the way you made the board...I would pay to be an assistant in your lab...
Just make a giant 7 segment or a character segment display! I have been thinking about doing something with electroluminescent paint these days, and you happened to make a video about it. You rock!
I had no idea the HV chips existed. I've made displays using triac pairs switching a standard driver, but there are big issues running an EL driver with variable loads. They'll shut down if the capacitance is too high, or low, so switching everything on or off can cause unexpected issues. This is a really neat solution.
i found this a while back its cool to see someone put it in applications that i would actually do
This is fucking impressive, I am blown away by how cool this is! Makes me wish I could afford all the materials to make my own. I think it's awesome you went the extra mile to make your own driver circuit too. Kudos!
Ok, THIS is the coolest thing I've ever seen, displacing the previous coolest thing I've ever seen. I need to get some of this paint! You are a Jedi master, my friend.
This is more accurately called AC Electrolumenescence. LED are also electroluminescent devices. The AC EL devices are cool because electrons and holes aren't actually injected into the photoactive material or phosphors to recombine like LEDs. The dielectric material simply blocks charge injection and only allows the photoactive material to only feel the electric field. The high strength electric field causes the electrons and holes trapped in defect states within the material to free themselves and fly through the material like a bullet through a watermelon. Kinetic energy is transferred to other electrons and they to become excited (impact ionization). The electrons and holes recombine as they travel across the thickness of the film and emit light. After a certain short amount of time the electrons and holes accumulate at the interfaces of the film (like a capacitor) and then the films reaches an equilibrium (becomes charged). To keep the devices emitting light the field is flipped at a rate such that the electrons and holes won't begin to accumulate at the surfaces. In physics this charge transfer is called a displacement current. The way this differs from a capacitor is by losing energy to excite electrons into radiative energy states within the material. Something that most dielectric insulators don't have.
I actually read your entire comment and found it very informative.
I smell an opportunity for a pretty dang decent DSKY replica here. It would be a nice application - check out Fran Blanche's Apollo DSKY videos for reference! Nothing else readily available on the market really compares to what it had.
haha that's what I thought of right away too. Must have been the CuriousMarc videos recently! Carl Claunch has made a DSKY.
rescue1130.blogspot.com/
Try refilling inkjet/bubblejet cartridges with this kit and printing on transparency film. You might be able to print custom displays with off an off the shelf printer!
I can't see very many reasons why it wouldn't work. It might rapidly plug the print heads, and the conductive components could mess something up. I'm not extremely familiar with the details of inkjet printers, but I know many of them have four different color cartridges. You might also have issues with the yellow dot codes they print on everything to trace counterfeit money causing shorts, though. If that's the case you may be able to clear the shorts by pulsing the display with a few extra amps to vaporize any shorts.
Since you need to print one component at a time you'll have to make four different images to print on the same page, one after the other in four passes. If the dots cause a problem, it can be solved if you find a printer that will run with a single cartridge, but it would be ideal if you didn't have to swap cartridges between passes.
I envy them who can afford lumi paint as I will never be able to afford it it has so manny applications.
All your work is fantastic
This was used in the $35k Nike AirMags!!! Thanks so much for such great content.
Wow! That's quite a project. Lots of time and smarts went in that EL paint.
I need to figure out how to include that in my designs. I love those glowing strings you can buy, but painted that's even better!
Very kool video chap. I’m looking to start spraying lumilor paint in the future. This controller is a cracking idea chap.
This is so inspiring. I tried make a simple EL light some time ago and had little success. I was using regular paint brushes on an ITO sheet as substrate and copper tape as the other electrode. Almost all of them short circuited. This is so neat and clean. Btw, I could find cheaper version of the same material on ebay.
This is really cool. A few years back I tried making a custom EL driver that would eliminate the audible noise- in my case it was for costuming a rock band and the EL driver noise would be picked up by microphones and especially guitar pickups. Whenever I increased the frequency above about 10khz the brightness would fall off and I came to the conclusion that the phosphor needed the lower frequency. I guess I was wrong, it must have been a limitation of the transformers. You going to be selling this driver? You could take over the market, no one else has anything like it (last time I looked).
ZnS:Cu looks like 10khz is 100% intensity, 20khz 83% , 30khz 44%.
people hear to ~15-20 khz
You need to be running a sine wave, not square wave as sine eliminates 90% of the audible noise and increase lamp life. Both the voltage and the frequency dictate brightness and color hue. Triphosphorus White EL lamps can change over a wide color gamut by just changing the frequency as they use multiple phosphors that emit at different optimal frequencys. Single phosphor White lamps are made with a fluorescent layer printed on a single Blue/Green phospor layer to shift part of the light output from blue/green EL to White. The voltage can be 80-160v RMS at anywhere from 400 Hz to 1.6 Khz with and average of 800 Hz for most white lamps.
waittt two videos in one week???
Happy Thanksgiving!
Benefits of time-off-from-work this week. I think one video per month seems to be a good normal pace for me, and I can keep the quality high at that level.
@@AppliedScience can you please make something with x-rays again (maybe build a tupe ;D)
1 video per monat are you crazy? i could devour your videos on daily basis
Love the videos keep them coming.
This makes up for the lack of hoverboards. I feel that we are comfortably in the future now.
this would make for some pretty sick wall posters, like the blacklight ones but without a blacklight
$500! Bloody hell! When you said that it is very expensive, you weren't kidding. I definitely won't be buying any of it any time soon (or ever probably).
Wow, very cool. Great job!
Just the right amount of coffee - that's how I would set up the screen and pick&place machines.
Impressive.
This channel's quality is astonishing.
16:23 - Best part of this video and the possibilities of Electroluminescence.
So got here as a side channel rabbit hole from so misc project ideas/thoughts and I am so far out of my depth through this video but very cool and impressive stuff. Wish I has a better grasp on it to understand possible application/limits but I don't even know where to start.
Wow, very inspiring..!
How you manage to be so productive is beyond me.. 😊
Incredible work with the matrix driver code. I can imagine how long that took.
Two Applied Science videos in one week! I'm ecstatic!
You are a great teacher thank you
The entire time I was watching this I was thinking to myself, 'I'd have to figure out how to run video on that cross matrix and I'd totally have to rickroll people with it.' And sure enough that's exactly what you did. INSTANT like & sub from me. Keep of the great work!
So very cool! I was working with EL lamps (screen printed process). being able to rapidly prototype or one-off is awesome! love that you have given the driver whistle the boot as well.. amazing thank you!
Despite the video used to demonstrate the video potential, that is fricken awesome. You got my head rolling at all the possible potentials. I was gonna suggest the 3-states, but rather than three states, why not a sub-latching driver. Use your 64 channel, then do a full single state switch. Kinda like a buffer. Nice coding too. Curious if some available library's such as Max 7219's; I see they would require a fancy circuit to make them work.
However, fricken awesome dude. Thanks again
Got some questions…
Do you change the cup or clean the spray pens cup after every paint?
Will that still work despite using a small compressor for the spray pen?
And
What other challenges did you face that you think is important to know when conducting this on a pliable substrate for the first time?
Thanks!
All of your videos are so ingenious and well made
You have been tasked with the mission involved in the creation of Paul McCartney's first and next electroluminescent guitar. He just said that it should be a 4 tone bluish orange combination appearing to scroll the notes and lyrics of the music, and this needs to be completed by next week to keep it all the tour schedule. The world tour and all its fans are depending on you from this point forward so please don't let them down, though please remain calm in spite of the sheer magnitude of such a monumental task of entirely colossal proportions. You will be paid 405 million US dollars.
was wondering how to control my el wire brightness and make it quieter, definitely going to be referencing this!
When I'm a millionaire, I'd like to paint a blue stripe along the side of a car with this paint, on gloss black
men you are creating a high quality content on youtube ; bravo !
Amazing what you can do with a Trinket and a few brain cells, LadyAda would be proud of you!
Possibly the most thought and effort put into Rickrolling.....ever!
You always amaze me with your ideas and the effort put in to bring them to fruition,
bet you picked up lots of new subs with this one
I can imagine modular synthesizers painted with this paint, controlling it wit CV, basically mapping the modules like laser projections on big festival speakers
Only 1/3 the way through the video but WOW!! I used to painstakingly screen print a mixture of 5-minute epoxy and GE EL phosphor onto Southwall Technologies' ITO film, then screen print Dupont silver conductor composition over that. Worked great but at 60Hz I had to use 600V to get them to be bright, not like today's high frequency drivers.
Find an old CRT TV and harvest the phosphor out of it to use as EL paint ! Mix the phosphor with something else as a carrier then use vapor deposition to deposit conductors on the top with areas masked as needed. And you can get red / green / blue if you can separate the phosphors somehow or white from an old B&W TV.
Awesome video, I am always astounded by the varied topics your videos cover.
Only Ben could Rickroll people with a homemade EL display matrix.
This is truly the most incredible, inspiring, and just endlessly fascinating source of engineering & physical science ideas. You are such a genius and such a committed and clear communicator. Thank you for all your work!
The half life lambda
I think he used to work at Valve
The Lambda symbol is ancient. Has been around since loooong before HL :p
@@Chriva Yeah, but it's an orange lambda in a circle in the same typeface as the HL logo.
He must be a member of the Lambda Team.
@@Chriva No shit, but in orange with the circle around it gives suspicion that it's supposed to be a reference to HL :p
I'm thankful for two Applied Science videos in one week. Thanks Ben!
one of the coolest things i've seen in a while, thank you for making a video on it Ben!
If you uploaded this on the 1st April, Id think you just made this technology up. I mean spray on display? cmoooon
Jolly Joy ...i was looking for a black light ;) They have cool tech out there if you look. Forget what its called but they make metal sheet and wire that bends to a predetermined shape when electric current is applied to it....like say your fender on your car gets a dent, hook up a battery and cables to the sheet metal and it will bend back to a dentless fender.
Not gonna lie, I did check the date to be sure.