Anyone else feel weirdly hungry after watching this guide? IMPORTANT NOTES: - AV ties go in favour of your DPS, so stuff like 160.1 is actually 160 SPD, no longer need that extra .1 - 134 is still a great breakpoint for DPS (and certain tuning units like Bronya), and if you want to max out your build and you have the rest of the unit's stats then why not. - Speed is still important, I note that a lot. The whole concept of this vid is explaining SPD and how important it is as well as avoiding overbuilding it at the sacrifice of other stats. - Another important note FOR speed is that many enemies are very fast in the endgame, and speed translates to easier sustain as well as more DPS actions inbetween their actions to save your team / BREAK the enemy / kill the enemy. - Break units want SPD too since their DMG will scale on BE for DMG and Speed technically since more actions means faster breaks. - A note AGAINST speed pre end game is that it's one of the rarest main stats and substats. - SPD is less diluted with buffs since we got TONS of ATK%, DMG%, etc. so it's still really nice to have SPD boots, but ofc not mandatory which is the point. - SPD is useful outside of MOC of course, but there aren't specific breakpoints for that, so it's kinda build with what you got
This is why Welt and Bronya's kits are so op in a turn based game. Able to manipulate turn orders in a turn based game are the best abilities someone's kit can have.
I am completely fine losing more 50/50 to these two units. I have Welt E1 and he can easily clear any content in the game without massively investing into him. Enemies just don’t get their turn.
@@Marvinzum I have E0 Welt but i use him in a mono img comp. That's my fixed team. The other side is made of Jing Yuan/Clara/Seele/Jingliu. Though Jingliu is the heavy hitter these days.
something quite helpful to know is that the speed substats have decimals that are not shown ingame, so technically blade and bronya could both have 134 speed but blade will have a turn before her as long as he has one decimal higher
@homudarkhow is a Bronya faster than the dps better in most cases? That just sounds wrong to me, maybe coz i dont have Bronya. Isn't better in most cases for the dps to go first so Bronya can give them a second turn?
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483Fast Bronya still does that while also generating skill points, or giving even more turns. Slow Bronya also crumbles to CC super hard, while Fast Bronya kinda automatically corrects the rotation.
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483the idea of fast bronya is to make her SP netural by doing normal attack once, and after normal attack bronya position will be under you main carry and able do to her skill. this also greatly effect her energy regeneration too. so more buff uptime, also can have kore 'free' turn in case shit happen. depends on your playstyle. i see ome pople always use asta with LC that give energy and ER rope to make asta always give 52 speed (ye she E6) so the other dps character can use atk boots or something to increase their dmg. also luocha with 210 speed after buff is funny
It's worth pointing out that for some rotations, the relative speeds of team members matter (notably slow DHIL) and adding flat speed to all of them can mess up your rotation.
All my DPSs are those who say "Fuck it we ball". SPD is just too complicated and restrictive to build around. It is the third priority for me after getting CR/CD first.
@@DefinitelyNotAFerretinvesting speed in gepard is pain, since his base speed is 92, and his planar no benefit from speed, better use speed boots on hunt harmony character
I understood quite a bit about speed, but this was way more eye-opening than I expected. Bless both you and your friend for the chocolate bar analogy. Also, the action delay is the part that I definitely did not understand. Thank you very very much for the amazingly clarifying guide.
@@guobacertified You're extremely welcome. I sent it to a couple of my friends because they've been having trouble with their builds and in MoC. At least one of them said it did a much better job than I did. Which is not surprising because I've simply been regurgitating what I've seen in videos like yours, but doing it badly.
@@guobacertifiedcan u also explain why sometimes example of a random scenario of order topaz, herta, huohuo and march 7. sometimes herta ca overtake topaz, why does that happend? Does speed get change mid battle?
I already had a rough understanding of how speed works, thanks to my long history of playing turn-based games. However, hearing about a buff that helps you eat chocolate bars faster was a unique and memorable experience. 👍
Really hope this video and the sheet will remain viable for a while because this is really amazing and could define how to speed your characters in a optimal way so you dont mess up your rotation. I know speed is really important but i had no idea how much was really needed in HSR .Thanks alot !
For those that don't want to do too much thinking. Just go full spd as long as they are supports, and depending who benefits from whose buffs, make them go first. More spd, more sp, more energy. However, only aim for thresholds, such as 143 instead of 141 not worth it if spd are at awkward numbers. DPS will always be the slowest to min-max damage. Don't have to think too much. (This is if you use Asta/Bronya, if you need spd boots, then you need spd tuning)
It is best to think of SPD like an additional multiplier for your damage in my opinion. So like with other damage multipliers like attack%, crit or damage%, you want to diversify. Going all in on SPD and neglecting other offensive stats at the same time will lead to less damage overall. Likewise ignoring SPD in favour of more crit or attack will also be bad (except for units like Clara whos SPD is essentially the enemies SPD or abusing Bronyas SPD to effectively giving her SPD to an ally). Thats why it is usually the norm to use a crit chest, SPD boots, damage orb and attack rope. So you have every commonly available form of damage multiplier in about equal amounts to maximize damage. The only difference is that SPD only scales linearly in an infinite duration fight. In reality fights only last a finite number of turns and cycles. Thats why breakpoints exist and are worth considering. If having 136 SPD does not actually give you an additional turn over having 134 SPD, the one substat roll in SPD is effectively wasted and would give you marginally more damage if it was a crit or attack sub instead.
@@INTJ791 Yeah there are other units as well that are specific about their SPD. I was just listing a few examples, nothing comprehensive. SPD has more interactions with other gameplay mechanics like SP and turns, so it is a bit harder to generalize than crit or attack who are mostly self contained mechanics.
spd is a team stat. you don't build spd for a character, you build it for an entire team. which is why it tend to be quite difficult to answer "how much spd" on a given character. and often end up with 134 for two turns in the first cycle barring some obvious exceptions. also, that chocolate bar analogy is quite interesting. never thought of spd that way before. I still prefer the running laps analogy where we treat that 10,000 units as the length of one lap and AV would naturally become a time unit. spd * time = distance traveled and its variants are some very straight forward formulas that everyone can understand, hopefully, and IMO very intuitive since the stat here is literally speed. but as long as it does its job, any analogy works.
I was spd tuning a hypercarry Seele team with Yukong for ages. I got it so that at the start of the battle, Seele was the slowest, YK second slowest, then after everyone went, Seele was the fastest and YK the slowest. It was very satisfying when I finally did it. I got YK to e6 with a random standard banner pull like a week later lmao.
Outside of niche speed checkpoints like 140 Jing Yuan or Bronya speeds, the most relevant speed check to me is for the planar ornaments that need speed. We may get even more relics in the future that want a certain speed, so they are good minimums to aim for if using those relics.
After watching dreamy's 164 bronya vid and building my own 164 bronya I hope everyone can experience that comfort one day. Making any carry go 3 times in the first turn is amazing.
Glad you enjoyed that vid but I think more context is important! It allows the carry to "not wear speed boots" and yet able to act 3 times on the first cycle which maximizes the impact of each of their turn unlike a 134/135 speed setup for Bronya.
@@LisaraScarlet Thanks for adding more context for others to understand. All your guides work wonderfully and I'm lucky enough to have the relics and light cones to replicate. Continue the awesome work and thanks to you and guoba for spreading the knowledge.
This is something I've been saying for a while. Speed is important. But unless you are min/maxing for time sensitive content, it is more important to hit thresholds for your relics and set priorities for your turn order than to chase the biggest number you can reach. And a character that moves often but provides little value on their turn might as well be an empty slot.
glad that we have a video like this since some people like me before was too caught up with speed. on my main account i have crazy speed and able to clear the content still but the stress of getting there is quite high (its fun to see tingyun at 161 speed for no reason). my alt account is gearing up for end game having this piece of information is very helpful its probably helpful for the play station players too
This helps! Thanks, basically if you can sacrifice a little to get to the next speed breakpoint, it will be beneficial to do so as turns are strong for clearing content. An extra turn is strong as it almost doubles your output compared to a stronger turn due to extra stats but characters like seele who get extra turns anyway, speed doesn't actually multiply their damage like attack or crit stats would. Or characters like Clara where almost all of their damage at e1 is in her counters which happen regardless of how many turns she takes benefit 0 from her speed and may lose her ultimate stacks as a result of taking too many turns. Like I thought, this game is extremely well designed as each character wants different things. And the speed stat isn't worth over investing in as the benefit comes from multiplying useful turns. It follows differentiation rules where if you have multiple variables multiplying each other, to maximize the AxBxCxD, you'd want to invest is all of them about equally and leave out the stats the characters don't scale with.
Thanks for making this video Guoba! I realized that I was reading the speed breakpoint chart wrong and thought that 134 was a lot better than just the extra turn on C0. I can stop sweating over getting 134 at all cost vs 121 with better stats now
i dont believe this video pop up in my recommendation today. I was searching for a speed guide all day yesterday. tq so much for this video and the spreadsheet
This was such a great guide! Precise and easy to understand. I love the chocolate bar analogy you used (as expected from the Stove God) Thank you Guoba sensei !
just found your channel, and this was very informative. i'm trying to get better at this game so i can confidently take on the MOC floors. (I'm TB 70 and I still haven't tried them yet) But anyways, I'm defiantly subscribing, keep up the good work.👍
the chocolate analogies are my favorite part of this video, what a genius way of explaining the speed and turn mechanics xD inb4 hoyoverse adds a character with a sweet tooth and advance forward/speed increase kit
Here’s my guidelines. 121 spd to go twice on turn 2. 134 spd to go twice turn 1 and turn 4. 143 spd to go twice turn 1 and 3. 149 (or 150 spd, I forgot) to go twice every other turn. 161 spd for tingyun. And then I just don’t like to chase spd, becuz eventually everyone will reach a point where the content is just too easy and you’ll rather want to do more dmg than go more turns
Speed is SO important my jingliu being at 135+ and bronya with 134 is actually game breaking esp w using jingliu’s technique and boosting the enhanced state!
the weird thing with speed right now is, the moment u get cc or delay, all the spd break point go out of the windows and there is only 1 way to side step this which is either get high spd or get spd buff and advanced forward to mitigate this effect
slow unit are even more fragile to delay/slow/cc effect in the game, that why when ur slow balde get cc/delay it feel much more awful vs a 135 spd balde and the reason why ppl dont build spd IL is not cause it do less dmg but cause we litterally cant support him with enough sp to build high spd IL, high spd always have better advantage since the enemies play by YOUR rules instead of the other way around when u have to REACT to what enemy doing. The recent planar infinity show the important of spd/advanced forward stat in contents that doesnt have cycle refresh like MoC when a new wave spawn in
I really want to see an artist go ham on the chocolate bar analogy. Bronya forcing chocolate bars down Seele's throat, plus size Luocha snacking off to the side, roly poly Tingyun throwing up in the middle.
it works quite similar with construction speed in civ6, only in civ6 you experience every "chocolate bite" as Turn while in hsr you always skip to the turn where someone has finished the chocolate. I always know how it works but I never know about the 10000 chocolate segments. also the action advance/delay part is pretty well explained. now I understand why sometimes enemy recover from break right after they are weakness-broken
I enjoy these guides and explainers a lot. But for the casual player, all I really have to suggest about SPD is to tune it according to your planar ornament requirements. It's essentially a blueprint of how the game wants you to build a character.
One little suggestion for the speed spreadsheet regarding Jingliu: Since you mentioned E2 Bronya with DHIL, I think it's also worth adding her to Jingliu, since Jingliu wants Bronya even more than DHIL. For those who have E2 Bronya with Jingliu: 147 speed is a really good breakpoint for Bronya (that's the minimum speed for 4 extra turns within 7 cycles, technically 146,7 but just aim for 147), and for Jingliu aim for ~120 speed, which ends up at 148 speed after Bronya buff. Be aware though, that you'll need really fast and as SP positive as possible characters for the other two team slots because even though Jingliu doesn't consume many SP on herself, this speedy Bronya + Jingliu combo is quite SP hungry. Another, harder to achieve, breakpoint would be 160+ speed, which would give you another extra turn (5 extra turns in total) over 7 cycles. Not too hard to achieve for Bronya, but hard for atk boots Jingliu, so you'd either run her with speed boots again or you have another source of speed buff that has 100% uptime (with the above mentioned numbers you'd roughly need 12% speed, if you know, you know..). Also not really related to Jingliu and Bronya, but 147 speed is an important breakpoint for teams with E6 Asta, which I think is worth mentioning. Asta can give 53 speed for the whole team with 100% uptime (needs skill spam though, so not feasible for all teams), so all characters with 147 speed will end up with 200 speed, which is basically the golden number that gives double turns in every cycle.
The only two characters I've deliberately built to go fast are Bronya and Tingyun. I've just left everyone else at whatever speed substats they happen to end up with, and I easily 30-star MoC, although I've never 0-cycled it. Let me tell you, a slow-as-hell Jingliu with 3500+ ATK and a 146 SPD Bronya will shred anything and everything you put in front of them. The non-Bronya team usually has Asta, so they don't really need any dedicated speed boots. I've gotten close to a 0-cycle, but the best I've managed was a 1-cycle on MoC 10 (killed the boss with DoT on literally the first action after the cycle rolled over, I was furious).
as a player that runs only male team, asta is out of question, so planning on gearing my units is going to be hard but it will be done :D so your spreadsheet will greatly helped for my team building.. thanks!!!
Awesome video! I had a decent idea of how speed mechanics worked generally, but your explanations helped me visualize it way more easily with far less brainpower haha. PS. Your friend is a genius for the chocolate bar analogy 🍫
Amazing video, thanks for the guide! I love to minmax my build and sadly its very hard to grasp speed mechanics. Subscribed and i definetely will check your other videos :)
Great explanation, I would also like to mention that Breakers also want a lot of speed, as it makes setting the high damage Breakes easier, that said currently there isn't much incentive to build one, as dedicated damage dealers are simply that good, that said I think that Penacony meta will put higher focus on Breaking enemies.
Yup, Ty for confirming what I already play 🎉I first aim to get buffers faster than my damage dealers. That’s it! Then it comes down whether they need some speed to get going like my Jing Yuen feels kinda bad with 99 speed 😂he needs those boots cause I find him charging lightning lord too inconsistently so now he’s sitting at 126 spd which is ok. I was just aiming for 121. I feel that’s the sweet spot, a little over or under for damage dealers. Tho my Himiko is at 103 atm but that’s ok she feels fine.
I will now imagine my Jingliu agressively eating a chocolate bar as fast as possible to be able blast her enemies with her ice sword. Thanks Mr. Guoba!
Thank you, because of so many cc said the 134 stuff i have been having anxiety because i just cant reach it lol i think just my bronya and linx have reached it, so now i can be a bit more relax about it, cause i honestly didnt felt i needed that much speed, and in some cases i have gotten lucky and adquiere many ropes with energy recharge, ergo my units just skip the whole shebang with their ultimate lol
Finally, it's here! Thank you for covering this Guoba, it pains me to constantly see people in discord throwing around "134" without fully understanding it.
Note: Some characters may care about the speed breakpoints specially if you dont use or have Bronya. some enemies are also so fast that if you go too slow because of the recommended guide you follow, your characters will die before they even get their turn. The speed breakpoints depend on so many factors that it mostly depends on what content youre doing, the enemy lineup and if the synergy demands the speed tuning. Also, clearing MOC faster doesn't reward you anything, it just reduces more playtime.
Speed usually matters for Basic attack generators/Harmony characters, to be SP positive or "neutral" which they can pay for their own skillcost" and have better uptime on their bursts. For DPS to have high speed too, can cause problems, even Bronya's Skill skips IF the DPS goes ahead of turn, but without SP to burn.
Simplest AV and SPD *full* explanation: Total SPD calculation is: Base SPD stat x (100% + SPD buff%) + Flat SPD buff Action Value is: 10000/Total SPD Lowest AV unit goes first. AV gets reset to 10k/current total SPD after acting. Enemies have a set base SPD, and the base SPD gains a multiplier at certain lvls. Lvl 65-77 is a 1.1x multiplier, lvl 78-85 is a 1.2x multiplier, and lvl 86+ is a 1.32x multiplier. You can check the honkai fandom wiki for all the enemies base spd stat. (This is a copy and paste from my comment on a different stat explained video, feel free to copy and paste it)
Simplest AV and SPD full explanation: Total SPD calculation is: Base SPD stat x (100% + SPD buff%) + Flat SPD buff Action Value is: 10000/Total SPD Lowest AV unit goes first. AV gets reset to 10k/current total SPD after acting. Enemies have a set base SPD, and the base SPD gains a multiplier at certain lvls. Lvl 65-77 is a 1.1x multiplier, lvl 78-85 is a 1.2x multiplier, and lvl 86+ is a 1.32x multiplier. You can check the honkai fandom wiki for all the enemies base spd stat. (This is a copy and paste from my comment on a different stat explained video, feel free to copy and paste it)
Guoba san, so correct me if im wrong, because now we had 5 turn for MoC and 4 turn for pure fiction, based on 09:06 table the speed break point become different : For 5 action MoC: 94 spd PF: 111.2 spd For 6 action MoC: 109.1 spd PF: 134 spd For 7 action MoC: 127.3 spd PF: 155.6 spd For 8 action MoC: 145.5 spd PF: 177.8 spd For 9 action MoC: 163.7 spd PF: 200.1 spd For 10 action MoC: 181.9 And 11 action MoC: 200.1 N.B: this is action for whole duration of half MoC and full PF
For anyone who might get confused with how cycles work what I do is think of the cycle itself as an enemy character with 150AV. And then just like how regular enemies work, it'll have its action when the timer icon appears on the action bar, having more speed or less action value than it would mean you take your turns before it, and you want to take more turns than it because the lose condition from this enemy is the number of actions it takes(number of cycles)
I always didn't really care about breakpoints - they anyways needed only for 0cycling MoC. In actual hard content(Like SU5 or new event for max points(here offencive more tho)) you only need as much useful stats as you can get(speed included ofc). You want to be fast relatively to enemies(not cycles!), have HP/Def to tank them etc. 134 speed is just very endgame 0cycle stuff, and other breakpoints even more not needed for beating content. If I was a content creator, I would talk about it back in 1.1 I guess xD xD
Great, informative breakdown of speed! I'm not starting to tune my second team (since I have now beaten the story content and now shifting to endgame (MoC, Pure Fiction, etc) so understanding how that breakdown happens will help me be able to focus more on the stats that matter if speed isn't as needed as I thought before. Enjoying your content for the characters as well when it helps boil down the information that can be gained from buildsites that give me a base level information of BiS gear. But now that Sparkle has kinda shifted the game, what would be a good number to shoot for her? I'd think the 134 would be the ideal but could stack more crit damage if only needing 121.
Speed is weird, I was lucky on my dot team where until a new DoT set releases I have everyone speed turned (I wasn’t even trying at first) to be 1-2 spd faster then Kafka, at 135, so while it’s too much speed, the 3 4* dot supports go first and Kafka gets to take 2 turns a cycle. I also have her signature LC so she speeds up after turn 1, hopefully that Dot set is kind to me and gives me a bunch of good sets. Although I’m not 0 cycle int, so maybe I’m better off with atk boots on everyone but Kafka.
Anyone else feel weirdly hungry after watching this guide?
IMPORTANT NOTES:
- AV ties go in favour of your DPS, so stuff like 160.1 is actually 160 SPD, no longer need that extra .1
- 134 is still a great breakpoint for DPS (and certain tuning units like Bronya), and if you want to max out your build and you have the rest of the unit's stats then why not.
- Speed is still important, I note that a lot. The whole concept of this vid is explaining SPD and how important it is as well as avoiding overbuilding it at the sacrifice of other stats.
- Another important note FOR speed is that many enemies are very fast in the endgame, and speed translates to easier sustain as well as more DPS actions inbetween their actions to save your team / BREAK the enemy / kill the enemy.
- Break units want SPD too since their DMG will scale on BE for DMG and Speed technically since more actions means faster breaks.
- A note AGAINST speed pre end game is that it's one of the rarest main stats and substats.
- SPD is less diluted with buffs since we got TONS of ATK%, DMG%, etc. so it's still really nice to have SPD boots, but ofc not mandatory which is the point.
- SPD is useful outside of MOC of course, but there aren't specific breakpoints for that, so it's kinda build with what you got
I’m hungry for some more guoba content
keep cooking
It is Halloween, time for candyyyyy! 😂
My characters generally have between 125 maximum 135 (my Lyxn went too far with 140 F) xd
Why 161?? its 160 no?
This is why Welt and Bronya's kits are so op in a turn based game. Able to manipulate turn orders in a turn based game are the best abilities someone's kit can have.
I am completely fine losing more 50/50 to these two units. I have Welt E1 and he can easily clear any content in the game without massively investing into him. Enemies just don’t get their turn.
@@Marvinzum I have E0 Welt but i use him in a mono img comp. That's my fixed team. The other side is made of Jing Yuan/Clara/Seele/Jingliu. Though Jingliu is the heavy hitter these days.
So true
@@Marvinzum A fellow E1 Welt enjoyer
I have an E1 welt but don’t really know how I want to build him yet. He’s pretty strong even with the bad gear I have on him
something quite helpful to know is that the speed substats have decimals that are not shown ingame, so technically blade and bronya could both have 134 speed but blade will have a turn before her as long as he has one decimal higher
My smolbrain mindset for speed: just make the supports faster than the dps unless bronya haha.
Great video Guoba.
Yknow that works
Same mindset here. Just make buff/debuffers faster than DPS so they can do their thing while healers/tanks can go whatever lol
@homudarkhow is a Bronya faster than the dps better in most cases? That just sounds wrong to me, maybe coz i dont have Bronya. Isn't better in most cases for the dps to go first so Bronya can give them a second turn?
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483Fast Bronya still does that while also generating skill points, or giving even more turns. Slow Bronya also crumbles to CC super hard, while Fast Bronya kinda automatically corrects the rotation.
@@dohalimilqarasdeldemenanci8483the idea of fast bronya is to make her SP netural by doing normal attack once, and after normal attack bronya position will be under you main carry and able do to her skill. this also greatly effect her energy regeneration too. so more buff uptime, also can have kore 'free' turn in case shit happen. depends on your playstyle. i see ome pople always use asta with LC that give energy and ER rope to make asta always give 52 speed (ye she E6) so the other dps character can use atk boots or something to increase their dmg. also luocha with 210 speed after buff is funny
It's worth pointing out that for some rotations, the relative speeds of team members matter (notably slow DHIL) and adding flat speed to all of them can mess up your rotation.
gepard + slow DHIL team
So what you're saying is... I shouldn't run a 140 speed dhil with a 135 speed gepard 😆still figuring the team out
huh... how much chocolate are we talking
All my DPSs are those who say "Fuck it we ball". SPD is just too complicated and restrictive to build around. It is the third priority for me after getting CR/CD first.
@@DefinitelyNotAFerretinvesting speed in gepard is pain, since his base speed is 92, and his planar no benefit from speed, better use speed boots on hunt harmony character
I understood quite a bit about speed, but this was way more eye-opening than I expected. Bless both you and your friend for the chocolate bar analogy. Also, the action delay is the part that I definitely did not understand. Thank you very very much for the amazingly clarifying guide.
Tysm for the kind comment! :D glad it helped
@@guobacertified You're extremely welcome. I sent it to a couple of my friends because they've been having trouble with their builds and in MoC. At least one of them said it did a much better job than I did. Which is not surprising because I've simply been regurgitating what I've seen in videos like yours, but doing it badly.
the quality and quantity of your content is genuinely insane🤠👍
Tysm! :)
@@guobacertifiedcan u also explain why sometimes example of a random scenario of order topaz, herta, huohuo and march 7. sometimes herta ca overtake topaz, why does that happend? Does speed get change mid battle?
I thought SPD increases running speed 💀
NAH BECAUSE SAME HELP😭😭
As a persona fan I thought SPD was hit/evasion rate when I started hsr 💀 💀
Rule of thumb for myself: As long as I can clear MOC within 16 turns, I don't give a damn if I have 134 Speed or not :)
FR
within 14 cycles*
It’s 14 cycles now but I love it
20cycle now omg
Hoyo must've saw your comment 😂
I already had a rough understanding of how speed works, thanks to my long history of playing turn-based games.
However, hearing about a buff that helps you eat chocolate bars faster was a unique and memorable experience. 👍
HAHA I’m glad! ❤️
Really hope this video and the sheet will remain viable for a while because this is really amazing and could define how to speed your characters in a optimal way so you dont mess up your rotation. I know speed is really important but i had no idea how much was really needed in HSR .Thanks alot !
Glad you liked it!
For those that don't want to do too much thinking.
Just go full spd as long as they are supports, and depending who benefits from whose buffs, make them go first.
More spd, more sp, more energy.
However, only aim for thresholds, such as 143 instead of 141 not worth it if spd are at awkward numbers.
DPS will always be the slowest to min-max damage. Don't have to think too much.
(This is if you use Asta/Bronya, if you need spd boots, then you need spd tuning)
Clearest explanation of the topic I have come across so far. Excellent job!
It is best to think of SPD like an additional multiplier for your damage in my opinion. So like with other damage multipliers like attack%, crit or damage%, you want to diversify. Going all in on SPD and neglecting other offensive stats at the same time will lead to less damage overall. Likewise ignoring SPD in favour of more crit or attack will also be bad (except for units like Clara whos SPD is essentially the enemies SPD or abusing Bronyas SPD to effectively giving her SPD to an ally). Thats why it is usually the norm to use a crit chest, SPD boots, damage orb and attack rope. So you have every commonly available form of damage multiplier in about equal amounts to maximize damage.
The only difference is that SPD only scales linearly in an infinite duration fight. In reality fights only last a finite number of turns and cycles. Thats why breakpoints exist and are worth considering. If having 136 SPD does not actually give you an additional turn over having 134 SPD, the one substat roll in SPD is effectively wasted and would give you marginally more damage if it was a crit or attack sub instead.
you forget other than clara, slow danheng IL team plus gepard no need speed, since you want ensure to spam fulgurant leap
@@INTJ791 Yeah there are other units as well that are specific about their SPD. I was just listing a few examples, nothing comprehensive. SPD has more interactions with other gameplay mechanics like SP and turns, so it is a bit harder to generalize than crit or attack who are mostly self contained mechanics.
This is some god tier speed guide right here, never understood the breakpoints in general so I always assumed 134 was required for every unit, tysm
spd is a team stat. you don't build spd for a character, you build it for an entire team. which is why it tend to be quite difficult to answer "how much spd" on a given character. and often end up with 134 for two turns in the first cycle barring some obvious exceptions.
also, that chocolate bar analogy is quite interesting. never thought of spd that way before. I still prefer the running laps analogy where we treat that 10,000 units as the length of one lap and AV would naturally become a time unit. spd * time = distance traveled and its variants are some very straight forward formulas that everyone can understand, hopefully, and IMO very intuitive since the stat here is literally speed. but as long as it does its job, any analogy works.
I was spd tuning a hypercarry Seele team with Yukong for ages. I got it so that at the start of the battle, Seele was the slowest, YK second slowest, then after everyone went, Seele was the fastest and YK the slowest. It was very satisfying when I finally did it. I got YK to e6 with a random standard banner pull like a week later lmao.
tuning Yukong to Seele is fucking madlad moment. You a psycho lmao
mean while i keep getting shitty destruction LCs I'll never use in my life:(
Damn pro team builder ^^
@@Goose____pass the destruction
In short, my 160 speed Bailu equipped with S5 Multiplication now has diabetes. Thanks, I wouldn't have known.
LMAO yes
i wanted to go slownae but i lucked out with 148 on luocha, 138 on silver, 136 on yukong, so i went and grinded lunae up to 135
Outside of niche speed checkpoints like 140 Jing Yuan or Bronya speeds, the most relevant speed check to me is for the planar ornaments that need speed. We may get even more relics in the future that want a certain speed, so they are good minimums to aim for if using those relics.
160 new ornaments set.
After watching dreamy's 164 bronya vid and building my own 164 bronya I hope everyone can experience that comfort one day. Making any carry go 3 times in the first turn is amazing.
164 is required? I thought it's only 161. I have a long way to go.
Glad you enjoyed that vid but I think more context is important!
It allows the carry to "not wear speed boots" and yet able to act 3 times on the first cycle which maximizes the impact of each of their turn unlike a 134/135 speed setup for Bronya.
@@LisaraScarlet can you make speed for supports guide pls, love your content so much it made me build more high investment sups.
@@LisaraScarlet Thanks for adding more context for others to understand. All your guides work wonderfully and I'm lucky enough to have the relics and light cones to replicate. Continue the awesome work and thanks to you and guoba for spreading the knowledge.
@@ranieleulloran5299164 cuz of her 30% turn advance.
This is something I've been saying for a while. Speed is important. But unless you are min/maxing for time sensitive content, it is more important to hit thresholds for your relics and set priorities for your turn order than to chase the biggest number you can reach. And a character that moves often but provides little value on their turn might as well be an empty slot.
thx mr. guoba, the spreadsheet was really helpful for me to choose which main i use for Fu Xuan
Glad it helped !
Very helpful vid. You make the best guides and analysis!
Keep up the great work, Lord Guoba
Your spreadsheet link in the description is actually really helpful! Will the spreadsheet be updated every time a character comes out?
Hopefully so.
Yea I plan on doing so, done the same for EHR
Mmmm... Suddenly I feel like eating chocolate.
This is BY FAR the easiest to understand speed guide video I've watched. Thank Guob 😊
WOOOOOO!
I love watching mats and spreadsheet in the morning with some coffee, makes my brain starts faster for the day!
Lovely guide, and good work mate~
glad to help the daily grind
glad that we have a video like this since some people like me before was too caught up with speed. on my main account i have crazy speed and able to clear the content still but the stress of getting there is quite high (its fun to see tingyun at 161 speed for no reason). my alt account is gearing up for end game having this piece of information is very helpful its probably helpful for the play station players too
Glad you think so :)
Thanks, now I will be building no speed and using no speed buffs to maximize my chocolate chewing enjoyment.
NOOOOO lmao
(enjoy your chocolate haha
Great video! The chocolate bar analogy made it much easier to understand the idea of Action Value and how Action Advance/Delay affects it
YAY! Glad it helped
This helps! Thanks, basically if you can sacrifice a little to get to the next speed breakpoint, it will be beneficial to do so as turns are strong for clearing content. An extra turn is strong as it almost doubles your output compared to a stronger turn due to extra stats but characters like seele who get extra turns anyway, speed doesn't actually multiply their damage like attack or crit stats would. Or characters like Clara where almost all of their damage at e1 is in her counters which happen regardless of how many turns she takes benefit 0 from her speed and may lose her ultimate stacks as a result of taking too many turns. Like I thought, this game is extremely well designed as each character wants different things. And the speed stat isn't worth over investing in as the benefit comes from multiplying useful turns. It follows differentiation rules where if you have multiple variables multiplying each other, to maximize the AxBxCxD, you'd want to invest is all of them about equally and leave out the stats the characters don't scale with.
Thanks for making this video Guoba! I realized that I was reading the speed breakpoint chart wrong and thought that 134 was a lot better than just the extra turn on C0. I can stop sweating over getting 134 at all cost vs 121 with better stats now
It is better than just the extra turn c0, with the 4th and 7th cycle, but since 121 can still get two bonus actions then yeah it’s not as magical
i dont believe this video pop up in my recommendation today. I was searching for a speed guide all day yesterday. tq so much for this video and the spreadsheet
No problemo !
so you're telling me if I have enough speed I get to be that mean person and eat other people's chocolate bars? alrighty then!
lmao youll eat the bars faster yea
This was such a great guide!
Precise and easy to understand.
I love the chocolate bar analogy you used (as expected from the Stove God)
Thank you Guoba sensei !
Thank you I’m glad!
So welt is generous chocolate guy he always giving them the bar of choco
Yep! very kind
Man, I didn't know Bronya was a chocolate bully. But you know what? She deserves it for all her hard work.
Damn straight let her have her choco
just found your channel, and this was very informative. i'm trying to get better at this game so i can confidently take on the MOC floors. (I'm TB 70 and I still haven't tried them yet) But anyways, I'm defiantly subscribing, keep up the good work.👍
Glad you liked it :D
My DPS Silver Wolf Has exactly 134 speed which I am really happy with. Really helps her out a ton
the chocolate analogies are my favorite part of this video, what a genius way of explaining the speed and turn mechanics xD inb4 hoyoverse adds a character with a sweet tooth and advance forward/speed increase kit
lmao tysm ^^
Thanks Guoba! I really needed this!
No problem :)
omgg this video is so needed for me, i still don't understand how speed/breakpoints work fully
thank you!!
Here to help ❤️
your channel is an absolute gem.
Thank you :)
You're just getting better dear!
"Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a room. a rubber room. a rubber room with speed breakpoints-"
and speed breakpoints make me crazy
Here’s my guidelines. 121 spd to go twice on turn 2. 134 spd to go twice turn 1 and turn 4. 143 spd to go twice turn 1 and 3. 149 (or 150 spd, I forgot) to go twice every other turn. 161 spd for tingyun. And then I just don’t like to chase spd, becuz eventually everyone will reach a point where the content is just too easy and you’ll rather want to do more dmg than go more turns
I think you mean cycle, but yeah they are some nice breakpoints
Excellent content! I'll send this video to my friend who just keep on praising spd stat for every chars without knowing the calculations behind it.
wooo! Hope it helps him
Speed is SO important my jingliu being at 135+ and bronya with 134 is actually game breaking esp w using jingliu’s technique and boosting the enhanced state!
mhm its great for stuff like this, and JL can hit 135 so easily ^^
This guide was incredible on two fronts:
One: I am enlightened and now know how Speed works in Star Rail.
Two: I'm now hungry for some chocolate.
Hahah im glad :)
all i took away from this video was that i need some chocolate in my right now
Yes.
the weird thing with speed right now is, the moment u get cc or delay, all the spd break point go out of the windows and there is only 1 way to side step this which is either get high spd or get spd buff and advanced forward to mitigate this effect
slow unit are even more fragile to delay/slow/cc effect in the game, that why when ur slow balde get cc/delay it feel much more awful vs a 135 spd balde and the reason why ppl dont build spd IL is not cause it do less dmg but cause we litterally cant support him with enough sp to build high spd IL, high spd always have better advantage since the enemies play by YOUR rules instead of the other way around when u have to REACT to what enemy doing. The recent planar infinity show the important of spd/advanced forward stat in contents that doesnt have cycle refresh like MoC when a new wave spawn in
Yeah it also messes up tuning :'(
I really want to see an artist go ham on the chocolate bar analogy. Bronya forcing chocolate bars down Seele's throat, plus size Luocha snacking off to the side, roly poly Tingyun throwing up in the middle.
Bro imagine, if it ever happens dm me lmao
the more guoba telling me about speed...and when it turns into chocolate bars i became hungry and i forgot i was listening to speed guide 😂
woops :P
It good to know which characters need speed and hate speed.
finally something thats worth to watch, thank you
I just understand about chocolate bars in this video🤣. Thank you Guoba!!!
Perfect , chocolate bar propaganda
Amazing vid mrpoeratoe, didn't really think too much about speed before
I was gonna say it's not but then I wasn't fast enough to comment this, so yes, speed is the most important stat.
Lmao
I have high speed on my Internet, Browser, Media and Mouse to watch all of the Guoba content oh yessss!
Edison your comments are the best
this is a really really awesome guide guoba
Thank you so much!
it works quite similar with construction speed in civ6, only in civ6 you experience every "chocolate bite" as Turn while in hsr you always skip to the turn where someone has finished the chocolate. I always know how it works but I never know about the 10000 chocolate segments. also the action advance/delay part is pretty well explained. now I understand why sometimes enemy recover from break right after they are weakness-broken
glad it helps! love civ 6 too :)
long have I waited for this. Thanks :D
Hope you enjoyed the wait ^^
As someone whi started playing with playstation release this helps a LOT. Thanks
im glad it did! welcome to the game :D
tanks bro now I understand the speed , finally !!
Yay! Im glad
I enjoy these guides and explainers a lot. But for the casual player, all I really have to suggest about SPD is to tune it according to your planar ornament requirements. It's essentially a blueprint of how the game wants you to build a character.
Inert rutilant keel gamers 🗿
Watching this video in 2x speed is the cannon way of consuming it
TRUEEEE
One little suggestion for the speed spreadsheet regarding Jingliu:
Since you mentioned E2 Bronya with DHIL, I think it's also worth adding her to Jingliu, since Jingliu wants Bronya even more than DHIL.
For those who have E2 Bronya with Jingliu:
147 speed is a really good breakpoint for Bronya (that's the minimum speed for 4 extra turns within 7 cycles, technically 146,7 but just aim for 147), and for Jingliu aim for ~120 speed, which ends up at 148 speed after Bronya buff.
Be aware though, that you'll need really fast and as SP positive as possible characters for the other two team slots because even though Jingliu doesn't consume many SP on herself, this speedy Bronya + Jingliu combo is quite SP hungry.
Another, harder to achieve, breakpoint would be 160+ speed, which would give you another extra turn (5 extra turns in total) over 7 cycles. Not too hard to achieve for Bronya, but hard for atk boots Jingliu, so you'd either run her with speed boots again or you have another source of speed buff that has 100% uptime (with the above mentioned numbers you'd roughly need 12% speed, if you know, you know..).
Also not really related to Jingliu and Bronya, but 147 speed is an important breakpoint for teams with E6 Asta, which I think is worth mentioning. Asta can give 53 speed for the whole team with 100% uptime (needs skill spam though, so not feasible for all teams), so all characters with 147 speed will end up with 200 speed, which is basically the golden number that gives double turns in every cycle.
Rotations matter more. Making sure buffs and debuffs hit at the right time impacts damage more than chasing a fixed number.
Real
That chocolate bar analogy was more confusing than anything I’ve heard in months
The only two characters I've deliberately built to go fast are Bronya and Tingyun. I've just left everyone else at whatever speed substats they happen to end up with, and I easily 30-star MoC, although I've never 0-cycled it. Let me tell you, a slow-as-hell Jingliu with 3500+ ATK and a 146 SPD Bronya will shred anything and everything you put in front of them. The non-Bronya team usually has Asta, so they don't really need any dedicated speed boots. I've gotten close to a 0-cycle, but the best I've managed was a 1-cycle on MoC 10 (killed the boss with DoT on literally the first action after the cycle rolled over, I was furious).
as a player that runs only male team, asta is out of question, so planning on gearing my units is going to be hard but it will be done :D so your spreadsheet will greatly helped for my team building.. thanks!!!
Np :)
Awesome video! I had a decent idea of how speed mechanics worked generally, but your explanations helped me visualize it way more easily with far less brainpower haha.
PS. Your friend is a genius for the chocolate bar analogy 🍫
And I already screenshotted both those speed reference sheets, I’ve been wanting something like that 😮
TY! :D and yeah anemone is great
this helps sm, i can see clearly now
Amazing video, thanks for the guide! I love to minmax my build and sadly its very hard to grasp speed mechanics. Subscribed and i definetely will check your other videos :)
Yay! Welcome to the channel
Great explanation, I would also like to mention that Breakers also want a lot of speed, as it makes setting the high damage Breakes easier, that said currently there isn't much incentive to build one, as dedicated damage dealers are simply that good, that said I think that Penacony meta will put higher focus on Breaking enemies.
Yep spd is great for breaks, noted in pinned comment, thanks!
Yup, Ty for confirming what I already play 🎉I first aim to get buffers faster than my damage dealers. That’s it! Then it comes down whether they need some speed to get going like my Jing Yuen feels kinda bad with 99 speed 😂he needs those boots cause I find him charging lightning lord too inconsistently so now he’s sitting at 126 spd which is ok. I was just aiming for 121. I feel that’s the sweet spot, a little over or under for damage dealers. Tho my Himiko is at 103 atm but that’s ok she feels fine.
Huh. Right as I was thinking about farming speed boots for my supports, Guoba drops a guide.
PERFECT
well the sheet mentions for every support except yukong speed is great to build as much as you want as long as you don't lose too many defensive stats
Im new to star rail and this video made my brain ooze out of my head onto the floor
D: sorri
Grandpa welt keeps giving our enemies chocolate and somehow it's working?!?!?
He gives them chocolate and makes their mouths smaller
now i can't unseen that literally everyone in this game include enemy's boss and mama cocolia eating chocolate bar to get their turn
What have I done
I will now imagine my Jingliu agressively eating a chocolate bar as fast as possible to be able blast her enemies with her ice sword. Thanks Mr. Guoba!
Hehe excellent
This chocolate bar analogy is such a perfect way to explain all of this. Holy macaroni did it all make sense after taht.
I’m so glad 🥹
Thank you, because of so many cc said the 134 stuff i have been having anxiety because i just cant reach it lol i think just my bronya and linx have reached it, so now i can be a bit more relax about it, cause i honestly didnt felt i needed that much speed, and in some cases i have gotten lucky and adquiere many ropes with energy recharge, ergo my units just skip the whole shebang with their ultimate lol
Finally, it's here!
Thank you for covering this Guoba, it pains me to constantly see people in discord throwing around "134" without fully understanding it.
No problem Dino with a capital D
For videos like this, Guoba definitely needs a professor outfit 😆taking us to class
trueeeee
Note:
Some characters may care about the speed breakpoints specially if you dont use or have Bronya.
some enemies are also so fast that if you go too slow because of the recommended guide you follow, your characters will die before they even get their turn.
The speed breakpoints depend on so many factors that it mostly depends on what content youre doing, the enemy lineup and if the synergy demands the speed tuning.
Also, clearing MOC faster doesn't reward you anything, it just reduces more playtime.
Ye enemy spd and sustain is a factor i forgot to mention ^^ but i listed so many important aspects of spd i hope it helped nail the point
Speed usually matters for Basic attack generators/Harmony characters, to be SP positive or "neutral" which they can pay for their own skillcost" and have better uptime on their bursts.
For DPS to have high speed too, can cause problems, even Bronya's Skill skips IF the DPS goes ahead of turn, but without SP to burn.
Simplest AV and SPD *full* explanation:
Total SPD calculation is: Base SPD stat x (100% + SPD buff%) + Flat SPD buff
Action Value is: 10000/Total SPD
Lowest AV unit goes first. AV gets reset to 10k/current total SPD after acting.
Enemies have a set base SPD, and the base SPD gains a multiplier at certain lvls. Lvl 65-77 is a 1.1x multiplier, lvl 78-85 is a 1.2x multiplier, and lvl 86+ is a 1.32x multiplier. You can check the honkai fandom wiki for all the enemies base spd stat.
(This is a copy and paste from my comment on a different stat explained video, feel free to copy and paste it)
Simplest AV and SPD full explanation:
Total SPD calculation is: Base SPD stat x (100% + SPD buff%) + Flat SPD buff
Action Value is: 10000/Total SPD
Lowest AV unit goes first. AV gets reset to 10k/current total SPD after acting.
Enemies have a set base SPD, and the base SPD gains a multiplier at certain lvls. Lvl 65-77 is a 1.1x multiplier, lvl 78-85 is a 1.2x multiplier, and lvl 86+ is a 1.32x multiplier. You can check the honkai fandom wiki for all the enemies base spd stat.
(This is a copy and paste from my comment on a different stat explained video, feel free to copy and paste it)
With a certain someone's light cone coming out soon, stacking as much SPD as possible will also be viable not just based off of breakpoints.
Guoba san, so correct me if im wrong,
because now we had 5 turn for MoC and 4 turn for pure fiction, based on 09:06 table the speed break point become different :
For 5 action
MoC: 94 spd
PF: 111.2 spd
For 6 action
MoC: 109.1 spd
PF: 134 spd
For 7 action
MoC: 127.3 spd
PF: 155.6 spd
For 8 action
MoC: 145.5 spd
PF: 177.8 spd
For 9 action
MoC: 163.7 spd
PF: 200.1 spd
For 10 action
MoC: 181.9
And 11 action
MoC: 200.1
N.B: this is action for whole duration of half MoC and full PF
For anyone who might get confused with how cycles work what I do is think of the cycle itself as an enemy character with 150AV. And then just like how regular enemies work, it'll have its action when the timer icon appears on the action bar, having more speed or less action value than it would mean you take your turns before it, and you want to take more turns than it because the lose condition from this enemy is the number of actions it takes(number of cycles)
hmm, interesting way of understanding it! ^^
@@guobacertified thanks for the video btw, you explained it really clearly.
Thanks for the spreedsheet Gouba!!
NP
God bless you math wizards. Thank you so much for recommended spd for each character!
Hope it helps
How dare you give Guoba an Elbow!
Always has one 🗿
I always didn't really care about breakpoints - they anyways needed only for 0cycling MoC.
In actual hard content(Like SU5 or new event for max points(here offencive more tho)) you only need as much useful stats as you can get(speed included ofc). You want to be fast relatively to enemies(not cycles!), have HP/Def to tank them etc.
134 speed is just very endgame 0cycle stuff, and other breakpoints even more not needed for beating content.
If I was a content creator, I would talk about it back in 1.1 I guess xD xD
Great, informative breakdown of speed! I'm not starting to tune my second team (since I have now beaten the story content and now shifting to endgame (MoC, Pure Fiction, etc) so understanding how that breakdown happens will help me be able to focus more on the stats that matter if speed isn't as needed as I thought before. Enjoying your content for the characters as well when it helps boil down the information that can be gained from buildsites that give me a base level information of BiS gear. But now that Sparkle has kinda shifted the game, what would be a good number to shoot for her? I'd think the 134 would be the ideal but could stack more crit damage if only needing 121.
Speed is weird, I was lucky on my dot team where until a new DoT set releases I have everyone speed turned (I wasn’t even trying at first) to be 1-2 spd faster then Kafka, at 135, so while it’s too much speed, the 3 4* dot supports go first and Kafka gets to take 2 turns a cycle. I also have her signature LC so she speeds up after turn 1, hopefully that Dot set is kind to me and gives me a bunch of good sets. Although I’m not 0 cycle int, so maybe I’m better off with atk boots on everyone but Kafka.
That speed sounds fine :) we still like speed, and thats a good way of tuning her
No chocolate was harmed during the making of this video.
Speed is effectively an active time battle system with the wait between actions skipped.
4:15 you said 10000 but the graphic shows 1000? misprint in the graphic or am I missing something?