I'll never forget losing a game by a Plague of Murlocs that was created by an Ethereal Lackey that was created by a Transfer Student *JUST* because we happened to be playing on the Dalaran board.
Bro Jesus I left hearthstone after like 2ish years of not playing and I come back to this. It’s wild that it’s just a game of luck and how you draw, I’m diamond 4 with aggro DH and every game is “well if he has the answer I lose” lmao I know almost every deck now is how lucky can you draw
@@JustLikeYou. i got back into the game after being absent since Void Lords were all over standard. I’m astonished by the luck this game entails it makes you think wow YuGiOh was right.
@Max Payne secret paladin and freeze mage... those are names that I haven´t heard in a long time. Another deck that I miss is handlock, boy, when Jaraxxus was a good meta card...
Well, the things is, classic was challenging and complicated, while pre-expansion hearthstone was straight up something new. It was very basic and with current knowledge it will be not interesting and challenging, I. E. Boring. With WOW its vice versa
I too used to think the game was random but then i learned: trick totem will always kill itself and the enemies Solarian Prime will fireball you 2 times in the face
Switched from Hearthstone to Legends of Runeterra and the difference in randomness is amazing. You can already see them starting to move in the same direction as HS but oh well enjoy it while it lasts. At least it's a lot cheaper.
@jocaguz18 I would play Faeria because I loved Duelyst, but I do most of my playing on mobile these days. Eternal seems fine but doesn't wow me, I like the priority system of Runeterra and how incredibly F2P it is.
@@mathunit1 maybe dont try to reply to a month old comment with current meta hot takes? obviously the glaring issues have been fixed somewhat (thanks to them nuking hush) but no need to pretend invoke isnt hearthstone bullshit
Epics used to be fun, often unplayable cards. In a long time they have been essentials and staples in every expansions. I have to use a lot of my dust if I want to experiments with decks and that's not very fun, so I don't.
@@mojojojo6292 It made collecting rares easier. Epics are almost the same, you don't get enough of them to be much affected unless you buy a ton of packs.
@@mojojojo6292 I still consistently get about the same amount of epics as legendarys. I don't know about you but I never really had a problem with getting duplicate legendarys.
@@gickygackers there's 7: Discover a spell, Discover a dragon, give +1Atk and Rush, give +2hp and Taunt, Evolve to +1 cost, deal 2 damage, summon a random 2 cost
2017's Tempo Mage: The only random generation cards were Babling Book and Primordial Glyph. It also was a quite cheap deck. 2020's Tempo Mage: Literaly half of the deck are random cards which generate more cards and it's expensive as hell. That's how one of my favourite classes got ruined.
For me, I always liked Combo Rogue. But it gets nerfed regularly because using minions, spells and weapons to control the board is "Not fun to play against". Meanwhile... Mage is constantly getting garbage like Quest OTK, infinite freeze Turtles, or Antonidas OTK where they use tons of board freezes to literally lock the opponent out of being able to do anything and that's just fine. While Tempo Mage decks are nerfed into using Randomly Random cards because "Why aren't you playing infinite freezes!" - Blizzard apparently...
@@tarille1043 Honestly Mage needs a rework. Tempo Mage would be great if they didn't have soooo much burn available. Frostbolt, Fireball, Flamewaker, the secret burn cards. Any board advantage for them becomes a huge snowball since being at 17 health with no minions against a Mage board means you're dead the next turn.
You know the game is shit when Babbling Book and Primordial Glyph look like acceptable levels of RNG, when in fact both cards have ridiculous variance and never belong in a serious e-sport game.
@@joonjoon819 I never could understand how people can treat card games as competitive esport game, there's so much stuff out of your control that I may straight up call it a gamble. Also other thing is - people under this video have some kind of weird nostalgia goggles on, because I remember well when Karazhan came out and basically everybody was complaining about how RNG-driven Hearthstone is, now you have people here saying babbling book times were "good" & "consistent" times lol.
@@theotherguy4456 it's not debatable because it was expressly stated that there would be no rotation, and that they wouldn't consider it for years, then when they launched the new mode, aka standard, they advertised it as such. Besides that, what defines wild is that all cards are legal, which was true at that point. What defines standard is that expansions older than the previous 2 years have rotated out, which wasn't true then.
But did you try to play different decks against them or you just play the same deck for many hours straight? Maybe you just gotta try to counter them 'cause you can do that to priests.
@@almondboi453 I mean if you put Skulging Geist into your deck the game won't give you Jade Druids, you'll just stop seeing them. It's stupid (cause why you wanna play 6 mana 4/6) but it works. Same with priests. Grizzled Wizard, Rat, Gnomeferatu. Just play Renolock and you will face less priests lol
@@MaxKolesov When you see a deck becomes tier 1 then use a deck to counter it, for example you can use deck with bomb/Galakrond cards as warrior to easily hunt Reno priest!
I quit playing last year, came back 3 months ago and already quit again. Just don't care anymore with all the random bs. I either lose due to random and i'm pissed or i win and it feels like its all due to randomness so i can't even feel happy about it.
The only real randomness i have actual problems is mage,i literrally had only one puzzle box of yogg saron were the mage didn't get lucky af,the problem with randomness is not when it's good,it's when it's way too good,and yes i am unlucky but damn if it's frustating to lose a game that you have basically won thanks to random removals,cards generators and minions generated by random spells
@@gabrielf.69 This is literally the reason why Yogg was originally nerfed. Puzzle Box is like a worse version of Yogg since all you need is 10 mana (or a cheat lol thx Blizz) and whee RNG fun.
Gaussian Entity that’s the point why I don’t understand they created the card puzzle box...?! Sure in worst case Yogg Saron could have been cast 29 spells but that unlikely.. so they nerfed it and x-expansions later almost same card again but in my opinion at least as same powerful as Yogg if not even stronger
Well, i started the game during blackrock and i immediatly got hooked when i was smashed 1st time by patron warrior. It was so beatiful that i actually spent money on expansions to get death's byte, emperor and grim patrons. And than it was nerfed. Well, too early to give up, right? I found out that freeze mage is pretty cool deck and there was also miracle rogue that is still playable, but was way cooler with triple leeroy. Hall of Fame gets introduced and both conceal and ice lance gets HoFed)
It's the same phenomenon as in many other "mainstream" games. "Random" reduces the element of skill, which allows for new players to bridge the skill gap against veterans who know the game a lot better. This prevents scaring off new players who would otherwise rarely win any games. Unfortunately it also spoils the experience -- there's nothing worse than losing because of bad luck rather than because of your own mistakes.
You're assuming, in my opinion incorrectly, that this randomness is taken to such an extreme that the *majority* of games are decided by skill rather than luck. While it is true that a good game lets the less skilled player win *some* games against a more skilled player, the more skilled player should be - and is - favored to win the match.
@@scrotiemcb5858 No, I'm not assuming that the randomness is taken to that extreme. Nowhere does it say that in my post -- that is your own projection. Being favored isn't the crux of the matter either. It's the same as in XCOM where your recruit misses a 95% point-blank shot. You lose because of randomness rather than because of your skill, and that plain isn't fun. You should win or lose on your own merits, not because of some virtual coinflip.
@@shieldphaser I admit I haven't played XCOM, but I assume it's a single player game. If so, no, it's not comparable; the computer doesn't need motivation to continue against a more skilled opponent. It's not about the 5% chance of randomly losing; it's about the 5% chance of randomly _winning._ Obviously the former is the cost of enabling the latter.
@@shieldphaser Take some math classes, “random” in XCOM is so much different than random in Hearthstone. The % mechanic in XCOM is the average, meaning not every 95% will hit and not every 95% shot should hit, that’s like saying it’s a 100% shot. I guarantee you if you counted up all the shots in an XCOM campaign, you would see that the game is in fact, not working against you and so your statement that “you lose because of randomness” is totally false in XCOM’s case. I would even argue that the % mechanic is very good for the game as it makes it more interesting. You need to consider what is gonna be your plan B if the shot you take fails. That actually makes the game even more skill-expressive. Sure it leads to some frustrating moments, but in most cases it’s only frustrating if you don’t know what you are doing. Take that from a guy who finished multiple campaigns on Commander/Ironman both with and without DLCs, including some campaigns where I didn’t even lose a single soldier.
@@theancientone1616 This is completely missing the point. If anything, XCOM cheats for you with the randomness on lower difficulties. That doesn't change the fact that losing because you missed three 90% shots in a row is very frustrating, which recently happened to me in long war (where the game doesn't cheat for you). I genuinely think that the game would be better if anything above 80% just snapped to 100% and anything below 20% just snapped to 0%. It would make the outliers less frustrating and prominent.
I've stopped playing HS when Scholomance came out and already DAY1 of the expansion every deck i saw was either libram paladin or aggro rogue (standart player btw). But i still enjoy your content a lot and you've really outdone yourself this time
That's kind of the thing with high power sets. You'll mostly see either aggro or combo. Although I will have to hand it to Blizzard. They actually printed decent cards this time around instead of having boring unplayable junk like in previous high power sets.
I found a good jumping-off point somewhere around Un'Goro; it was a boiling-up of several issues. Initially, I got into HS because it promised to be a CCG that actually let you have a competitive deck with cards that were readily-available. I loved that Basic cards like Fireball weren't tutorial filler junk that you were supposed to ditch once you bought/earned better cards, but were actually still valuable and usable. Over the years, I saw that the buff/nerf philosophy of HS was to remove Basic/Classic cards from the game in favor of pushing purchases to new cards; I was disheartened that the "nerf and buff cards to keep them interesting and playable" philosophy of the beta was replaced with "nerf cards in Basic/Classic and make them unplayable". This was largely why I gravitated to jank combo decks like Patron Warrior, Anyfin Paladin, and Caves Quest Rogue; rather than play the vanilla Curvestone game they were trying to push, it was like I got to defy the rules of the game that Team 5 was setting up. And we saw how all of those decks wound up. Ultimately, I fell off of the game around Un'Goro because the actual game was less decision-making and more "execute decks according to plan". I think it focused too much on mimicking Magic instead of going in its own direction and bringing interesting new decisions to the table. I also grew sour on the game as the dev team (and some top players like Kibler) endorsed a policy of strict set rotation instead of nerfing and buffing cards--something that is standard practice for most digital games. I don't want to get in a game just to have to keep walking the new expansion treadmill, and it seemed clear to me that Blizzard's balance was catered to Standard and not Wild.
This randomness especially bothers me in Arena which used to be my favorite mode and primary method of earning card packs. I never directly purchased them with gold, i would gamble everything away at Arena. But nowadays it seems that your draft and skill doesn't matter anymore. There is so much random card generation that it's silly. Half of the time you're losing to cards that weren't in the opponent's deck to begin with. Arena is a mode where you craft a deck from 30 random choices, so you don't have the resources to deal with insane shit like randomly generated Dragonqueen Alextrasza into 2 good 1-cost dragons. Your decent deck played by a decent player can go 0-3 now because of this crap. Want to be good at arena? You pick mage and draft any card that says 'Discover' on it. And hope for the best. Playing 10 discover cards in one arena game? No biggie! We used to hate 4-mana dr boom from unstable portal, but even that is nowhere near 2020 fuckery levels.
I returned to arena after an year to find how crap it has become. Arena used to be all about value and utilizing your resources judiciously so that you have card advantage. Now the few games I have played, most end with each player having 6-7 cards in hand even after turn 15. There is just too much value and randomness.
Quite frankly, this is pathetic cope. If Arena truly was a clown fiesta of random luck, then you'd expect the Arena leaderboards to an essentially random collection of usernames - except it isn't. The #1 player in April-May was #57 in June-July, and the #2 player A-M was #10 J-J. Good players consistently get good results, although that does mean re-evaluating classes and cards as the format undergoes rotations, nerfs and buffs. Snap out of your nostalgia blindness, quit complaining and git good.
@@SwapnilSemwal Assuming limited Mana to play them all, more cards in hand is more piloting choice, not less. Randomness completely aside, the "add card to hand" mechanic common to modern Arena increases skill testing, doesn't decease it. Discover is part luck but mostly skill.
I disagree a bit on the whole "Hearthstone has become Random". Hearthstone has always been random, looking back on effects like Ragnaros and Sylvanas, it wasn't exactly healthy either. But this is the kicker, it wasn't about how good the random effects were, even though sometimes they were backbreaking, it was about how well you could play around them. This is, in my opinion, what changed over time, as Randomness became such a central part of the game that you can't really play around it anymore. There are still "skillfull" decisions in Hearthstone, there are actually too many, to the point where the individual choices rarely feel like they matter, because every turn is a coin toss anyways.
I feel you on this sentiment. It's almost always best to just not play around specific cards because you put yourself at an incredible disadvantage not doing your incredibly broken stuff.
Eh this was true even back then. Piloted Shredder and Knife Juggler were very hated cards for this same reason. Yogg was disliked for a while too. The skill thing has always been mostly overstated though. A lot of games were decided by early draws even though most people won't admit it. The RNG made some lost games winnable while making already won games a loss.
Agreed, I feel like all the complaining about randomness and wishing for Hearthstone to be like 'the good old days' is seen through rose-tinted glasses. Solem pointed out the "fun" Druid win condition of Force of Nature w/ Savage Roar, but people hated playing against that combo back in the day, just as they hate Lightning Bloom w/ Guardian Animals etc now. The real problem in my eyes is the Discover mechanic, far too many cards have it, ensuring that you can almost never have a read on your opponent's hand to play around specific cards.
Imo the blame is on the over exaggerated discover cards which drop other cards which also drop other cards and so on. Not only makes it nearly impossible to play around but totally destroys the purpose of deckbuilding.
@@GaussianEntity what they mean is with knife juggler it's known rng and you csn play around it by trying. To kill juggler or going extra wide so that it's less likely to hit your best threat With shredder you can play around it by deciding when you want to pop it
You forgot to mentioned Emperor Thaurissan whose is the progenitor of mana cost discount. You forgot Mysterious Challenger the most hated card (second to Dr. Boom) at the time. I also remembered that Priest's early game was so bad that they had to rely on Auchenai + Circle of Healing combo to survive against aggro players. And the Old Gods brought in one of the most diverse meta (in my opinion).
I like your analysis. And yes Mysterious Challenger is just a dumb card. 6 mana 6/6 with draw 5 secrets and play 5 secrets. Which is about 12, 5 mana cheated! Who would have known that it would be broken? I really hated that meta.
you really should do more of these history videos :D was surprisingly interesting to hear you talk about what decks have been viable etc :) maybe do one vid for each class and go deeper into history :D
I once played a game where I played first day of school as paladin, which gave me babbling book, which gave me unstable portal, which gave me frightened flunky, which gave me tirion.
I really hadn't realised that RNG had become such a huge things in HS until I played LoR, since then I just can't unsee the 'Created by' and I play a game of 'count the number of cards my opponents played that WERE ACTUALLY in his starting deck.
The thing that originally inspired me to play the game were the old "Lord of the Gimmicks" videos TotalBiscuit the Cyclical Brit made a long time before he died. my personal favorite being "Healed to Death"
Random cards are fun. I had a ton of fun playing a homebrew Spectral Cutlass Thief Rouge but the problem lies in the fact that those incredibly random cards aren't just meme cards but actually competitively viable. Yogg-Box is the perfect example of this.
I love the amount of randomness currently in Hearthstone, probably wouldn't play the game if it wasn't there. I just feel like it helps games feel more fresh and requires you to think on your feet.
If you're reading this and considering coming back to the game, PLEASE DON'T. The phrase "competitive Hearthstone" is an oxymoron. You can and will lose games in a single turn from cards that didn't start in your opponent's deck; if that isn't the antithesis of strategy, I don't know what is.
Good video and you bring up some good points. Randomness can alter the course of some games (and allow for some crazy Trolden highlights) but it also keeps the game fresh. One of the most fun decks to play in Standard right now (and I said fun, not necessarily best) is Thief Rogue because you never know when an outrageous win condition might get thrown your way. Is it fun to play against? Well, it keeps you on your toes and you have to be ready for anything. I think Kibler would argue that these kinds of decks are fun because you have to look for the way to win based on what you're given, and you don't have the same "Leeroy + Shadowstep + Eviscerate" ending combo each game. I play Bomb Warrior, which has randomness built into it as you mentioned, but there are games where it comes to choosing my win condition - draw the game out so that my bombs finish them off, or play aggressively to try to kill them, while leaving myself open to burst damage? I think most decks in the game have some interesting dedcision-making along these lines.
game died when they separated wild and standard cuz it means they will just keep printing same cards each 3 months cuz imagine X class loss his board clear they need replacement each 3 expansion and thus makes wild mode insanely op broken decks that get snowballed and get feeding over time and dev refuse to balance wild cuz its no longer main mode and doesn't make them money compare to standard as for standard you just buy same card with different art style each 3 month that does same thing cuz old version of it now in wild mode , also making expansion only and not rotation of 1 expansion 1 adventure means casual won't be able to catch up cuz developer bad greeds of activision blizzard and developers also to blame they work for this scummy company and all they care their pay checks and not quality of the game
Most of top tier decks in wild are aggro or mid range. Just a few control decks are competitive. Also there are just o small amount of RNG in competitive wild decks. I wold say that is close to the right amount of RNG it should have. Wild is the closest Hearthstone come to be a good card game.
I love my random Reno’s Mage because it takes the exact principle of the video and takes it to the extreme. Most of the cards in the deck have “random” printed on them in some form or another (discover is used too). It doesn’t do insanely well, obviously, but it still made it to gold 10 without breaking a sweat. The last expansion felt devoid of much interesting content, so hopefully the new mode changes that.
I miss the old days because they had interesting single player content. it was like a puzzle to solve then you get rewarded with a specific card that is themed around that adventure and can only be acquired from that adventure. nowadays you either get randomly generated bosses that you fight with randomly generated cards, or you fight the lich king and get your ass handed to you for a pack of random cards. I still don't have Arthas hero portrait because he keeps beating my ass as paladin.
Thank you for this fantastic presentation of what happened in the last few years! Pure nostalgia haha :) I played a TON of Hearthstone about 5-6 years ago and was curious what the changes were. This is a perfect summary in about 10 minutes. Honestly, HS does not seem as fun as it did, at least to me.
2:14 "and finish the game by using a *fun* combination of Force of Nature and Savage Roar" - I'll find any excuse to support what Solem says, but after this sentence, I could tell we are just not on the same page at all xD I much prefer Hearthstone in 2020 than 2014, and I like the mechanic of adding some random cards to your deck. Keeps games fresh instead of the same cards in every game. Everyone enjoys different things of course.
Note: here the notions of good and bad depends of the feelings that players usually have. Shortly, for those who don't want to watch videos on the topic, pre random is "good" because it involves adaptation of the player to different situation and the player have the last word (something happen, what do you want to do ?) Instead, post random is "bad" because player usually can't entirely control him or respond. The main thing this can do is just stopping or increase a player action. (you try something, random say if it's work or not)
Personally I stopped playing back in 2019 just after the hong kong drama. That didn't actually have any impact on me personally quitting the game, it's just in the right time frame. No, I quit because the price of new cards and expansions was ludicrously expensive, new expansions made old decks invalidated and the awkward rotation made sure that there would only be one viable deck for each class in standard, if even that, all while wild was ignored by blizzard. But I think the biggest reason was that a better alternative for me as a player came out in Legends of Runeterra.
The worst thing about random in Hearthstone is that a LOT of cards who do not have the word "random" in their text are actually random, because it's implied.
I love the amount of randomness of hearthstone and I don't think it negates skill at all. It just makes those good at math and probability be better... in the long run
In Pokemon (the TCG and the competitive video games) we have had this from the very beginning. The game moves from being more hard deterministic, -- victory depending on your choices only, because only your choices can effect the game-state -- to being more probabilistic. This was bound to happen with a "card game" that was a computer game from the beginning.
I recommend giving legends of runeterra a good try I gave it a chance and I haven't played hearthstone since. It's amazing! When I lose in runeterra ots 95% of the time my fault and not rng also the game dosen't make you pay 100s of dollars to keep playing it. You can actually play legends of runeterra and have every card for free just by playing
Same here. Played around 200 hours of hearthstone back in 2016 and then kinda dropped it. Now got into LoR when the beta came out and a few weeks ago revisited Hearhtstone and it's so bad. Like, everything about it is just terrible. And yes, collecting cards is so much easier in LoR.
It feels more like one of those 'emperors new clothes' moments. Hearthstone hasnt changed, ppl are just finally starting to see it for what it always was.
I remember a match where I was playing Warlock. I played Galakrond, as I already had invoked 4 times and with Galakrond's damage I had lethal, and the first minion that was summoned was Unlicensed Apothecary. I had 14 life. Playing Galakrond literally made me lose, because I received 15 damage. Yes, I got really mad and closed HS immediately to play another game.
Liked commented subscribed … I started playing hearthstone in 2015 and after a few years just got bored once I’d made a “solid” deck for each class, but after quitting I’ve decided to play again when I went on holiday, and I’d say enough now has changed to make it fresh for longer, all the new mechanics are confusing, I have to hover over every card played to make sure I understand the card text and effects, I’d say for now I have the fun factor back, new game modes, the season pass, I don’t know how long for, but I’m excited tweaking my decks into wild decks to include the proper wild cards again before I started to remove the most synergistic cards just to play standard at the time… wild is definitely where it’s at! 💪🔥
You hit the nail on the head. Trying to compete against people who spent hundreds of dollars on the "Free" game I had once Loved became so frustrating that I finally quit. I remember being more excited about the launch of this game than I had been about anything else in Years.
people play regularly and limit themselves to 2-3 decks per expansion dont need to spend any dollars to stay competitive. Packs gold/money cost isn't the problem here
oh well, was thinking about getting back but after a bit of research I found out that the game I fell in love with when it was still beta, became complete and utter horse shit. back in the day when ,,random,, was appearing more and more I said if this wont stop, this game will die.......and well.....here we are....rip HS, we had some good times
I think it's actually healthy that it's become more random, when I compare it to YuGiOh for instance, wherein the game has evolved to be completely centered around combos to the point where games are consistently over by turn 4
The problem with random is that it takes a lot of the skill away from players. A board can go from "im winning after a long hard fight" to "i lost because even though I played perfectly. My opponent played a 1 mana card that gave him a fireball that killed me." Something like yugioh, which I do play competitively, is still skill intensive in how the competitive works with combo decks needing to play around handtraps and interaction while control decks need to know what to stop, how to stop, and what to do after stopping a deck.
i feel like as someone who owns all the cards the random aspect can be frustrating. But as someone who doesnt even own 5% of the cards, generating random cards gives me a chance to enjoy more of the game. I love burgle rouge just because i really want to see different cards i dont have. So im actually pretty glad this mechanic exists, otherwise i have one deck which plays the same every game and i dont have the resources to do anything else.
Thanks for your video. I feel like this comment will be lost in all the good ones I’ve read so far. But anyway: I dropped Hearthstone way back in 2016, if I remeber correctly it was some time after the N’Zoth and Old Gods update with a new mechaNic The reason was simple - I played the game to go up the ladder. However, as the time passed I became more aware that in order to go higher I have to possess more exclusive cards; which led to spending more money (or 24/7 grind for coins). I did spend a good portion, but it wasn’t enough. I remember that I’ve read guides on the best decks to build one, and a very minimum for the deck was like 5 elites/new expansion cards, I’ve only had 2-3. So I felt like no matter what my skill was I can’t go any further with my rating. The extra weight was that I’ve played almost since the game was launched and as the oil rogue and secret paladin I used to hit 3rd position in the rating (sorry I don’t remember the real name of the system). Without any excessive donations I felt the intrigue of the matches and some lucky unlucky situations were less dominant in the match and you could really think ahead and count the cards in order to make a strategy. I didn’t have a slightest interest in watching or playing HS in the past 4 years and from what I’ve heard it became even more RNG based and P2W based. Whether it’s true or not, I don’t have a longing to go back to it due to the mechanic that old cards that you spend money or grind on - fall in disuse (like the clothing fashion, only in HS case YOU HAVE TO follow it as well). Once more, thank you for the video, and spending time comparing it with what it used to be and elaborating. I was truly shocked how the game acquired so many mechanics and even more cards.
Man you guys have it rough I remember playing the game when Dr. Boom was a thing and randomly deciding the game. Had a ton of fun with hearthstone but I don't miss a bit after random become the new meta.
I stopped when they introduced standard and wild and killed all my hard work basically saying, "if you want to play the 'real' ladder, keep spending 300-400 bucks every three months". Or at least that's how I remember it, it was quite a while ago.
I really like your honest opinion and analysis. I fell in love with the base game of Hearthstone and the first expansion. Yet now it feels like the typical money grab, printing more and more broken cards just to sell packs and get people hyped. They created Demon Hunter which was still broken after three nerfs. And like you have pointed out, reducing the cost of cards to 0 is one of the main issues with cards breaking the game. Just with DQA, it went from game winning to unplayable. They should bring the cost of DQA down to 8 mana so you can play her on turn 8 or 9. Now she is too slow and just a dead card. Who run a 8 mana 8/8 nowadays?
Despite myself loving multiple cards from future expansions (including DKs), I have to agree and say exactly there was a great place for the game. KFT made Big priest and OTK priest much better, put UI and Spreading Plague in, and DMH warlock for infinite armor. I mained control priest/warlock/druid, so I like those cards, but for different reasons. I see completely how they're bad for the game.
I used to play standard. then I got bored and switched to wild to play mostly meme decks while climbing the wild ladder. And I got results with at least a little bit of fun.
Tbh i quit standard more beceause of altruis solely but yeah i played against a lot of spell mages which is just random and yeah could be another reason why i quit
I played to hit high legend, I did, I quit. Came back a year later, did it again, I quit. Actually 0 no reason to put time into being good at this game.
I haven't played the game for quite some time now. I remember getting frustrated with "random" effects back then. I think big priest (with 4 mana barnes), ice block and jade idol were why I stopped playing honestly. I also remember getting pretty frustrated with aggro shaman when it was in it's prime. Edit: Also my favourite archetype, miracle rogue, which was so satisfying got increasingly nerfed. Also with new cards/power creep it kind of just fell off.
![ฮักเทื่อสุดท้าย - บอย ศิริชัย [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-1PoPoQ-B-k/mqdefault.jpg)
I'll never forget losing a game by a Plague of Murlocs that was created by an Ethereal Lackey that was created by a Transfer Student *JUST* because we happened to be playing on the Dalaran board.
Sounds fair
Sounds fair
Sounds fair
You should play around it really.
@@davidvila5053 imagine counterspelling that
Oh, the good old times when using a coin to summon Yeti on turn 3 was considered exciting
Just draw better amirite
Just play around "created by" looooool
You should just have better luck smh
Bro Jesus I left hearthstone after like 2ish years of not playing and I come back to this. It’s wild that it’s just a game of luck and how you draw, I’m diamond 4 with aggro DH and every game is “well if he has the answer I lose” lmao I know almost every deck now is how lucky can you draw
@@JustLikeYou. i got back into the game after being absent since Void Lords were all over standard. I’m astonished by the luck this game entails it makes you think wow YuGiOh was right.
@@ProfessorDubs yeah I mean the entirety of net decks is filled with “created by” cards. Like how are you supposed to play around that?
"Force of nature + savage roar, which did a minimum of 14 damage" I remember when that was considered OP.
@Max Payne secret paladin and freeze mage... those are names that I haven´t heard in a long time. Another deck that I miss is handlock, boy, when Jaraxxus was a good meta card...
"Because why would things cost mana?" - this video in a nutshell
Also: random effects
I can confirm this video didn't cost any Mana to watch.
@@joaocaju3061 Value
Well we got WoW Classic, guess it's time for Hearthstone Classic!
HAHAHAHAAHAH yeah, sure, but it would be better if it had all the expansions before wild was introduced cuz vanilla is boring af :(
@@Torantes Uhhhh you sure?
*flashbacks of Who am I? None of your business*
Vanilla HS will be boring af right now
Well, the things is, classic was challenging and complicated, while pre-expansion hearthstone was straight up something new. It was very basic and with current knowledge it will be not interesting and challenging, I. E. Boring. With WOW its vice versa
@@GaussianEntity damn reading that gave me ptsd
last time i actively played the game, standard decks did suprisingly well in wild given how wild decks were supposed to be the broken ones
Cause there’s more variety in wild people wanna play the different decks that aren’t even good for the fun of it
@@spaghet2847 not really, standard has a really high power level atm, and that is probably a good thing
@@Bruh-el9js that too but thats the main reason i lose to standard in wild
It’s more because of how metas work. A non-meta deck usually performs better than if they are meta, because you get targeted and countered less.
powercreep is a thing
Ah yes, Hearthstone, my favourite slot machine
I too used to think the game was random but then i learned: trick totem will always kill itself and the enemies Solarian Prime will fireball you 2 times in the face
*pyroblast
@@trondordoesstuff actually 3
You might've heard of this 1 mana mage spell called Sinister Missiles.
Finally! A skill based card game
Yare yare...
F
Our battle will be legendary!
@@n-icebeam Daze
@@justinlu8554 NICE!!!
Switched from Hearthstone to Legends of Runeterra and the difference in randomness is amazing. You can already see them starting to move in the same direction as HS but oh well enjoy it while it lasts. At least it's a lot cheaper.
dude targon was such a shit addition to the game :( it made me so sad, an entire expansion that straight up made the game worse
@jocaguz18 I would play Faeria because I loved Duelyst, but I do most of my playing on mobile these days. Eternal seems fine but doesn't wow me, I like the priority system of Runeterra and how incredibly F2P it is.
@@_holy__ghost Meh, the game is actually in its better position. Targon is barely meta nowadays.
"starting to move in the same direction"
New cards and expansion say otherwise, but whatever.
@@mathunit1 maybe dont try to reply to a month old comment with current meta hot takes? obviously the glaring issues have been fixed somewhat (thanks to them nuking hush) but no need to pretend invoke isnt hearthstone bullshit
Epics used to be fun, often unplayable cards. In a long time they have been essentials and staples in every expansions. I have to use a lot of my dust if I want to experiments with decks and that's not very fun, so I don't.
No dupes has made collecting epics far easier though.
@@mojojojo6292 It made collecting rares easier. Epics are almost the same, you don't get enough of them to be much affected unless you buy a ton of packs.
@@mojojojo6292 I still consistently get about the same amount of epics as legendarys. I don't know about you but I never really had a problem with getting duplicate legendarys.
holy shit I never realised there were seven different Lackeys! bruh wtf
Yeah same, I head 4 in mind.
@@wonkglorg arent there 3
@@gickygackers there's 7: Discover a spell, Discover a dragon, give +1Atk and Rush, give +2hp and Taunt, Evolve to +1 cost, deal 2 damage, summon a random 2 cost
@@ChillRune NO SHIT SHERLOCK
MASTERHAENIR dude chill
2017's Tempo Mage: The only random generation cards were Babling Book and Primordial Glyph. It also was a quite cheap deck.
2020's Tempo Mage: Literaly half of the deck are random cards which generate more cards and it's expensive as hell.
That's how one of my favourite classes got ruined.
For me, I always liked Combo Rogue. But it gets nerfed regularly because using minions, spells and weapons to control the board is "Not fun to play against".
Meanwhile... Mage is constantly getting garbage like Quest OTK, infinite freeze Turtles, or Antonidas OTK where they use tons of board freezes to literally lock the opponent out of being able to do anything and that's just fine.
While Tempo Mage decks are nerfed into using Randomly Random cards because "Why aren't you playing infinite freezes!" - Blizzard apparently...
@@tarille1043 Honestly Mage needs a rework. Tempo Mage would be great if they didn't have soooo much burn available. Frostbolt, Fireball, Flamewaker, the secret burn cards. Any board advantage for them becomes a huge snowball since being at 17 health with no minions against a Mage board means you're dead the next turn.
I couldn't wait for Glyph to finally fokin' rotate... And then they added more RNG. reeeee
You know the game is shit when Babbling Book and Primordial Glyph look like acceptable levels of RNG, when in fact both cards have ridiculous variance and never belong in a serious e-sport game.
@@joonjoon819 I never could understand how people can treat card games as competitive esport game, there's so much stuff out of your control that I may straight up call it a gamble.
Also other thing is - people under this video have some kind of weird nostalgia goggles on, because I remember well when Karazhan came out and basically everybody was complaining about how RNG-driven Hearthstone is, now you have people here saying babbling book times were "good" & "consistent" times lol.
Wild format already existed, STANDARD was the format introduced.
I mean that is debatable because before wild was introduced all cards would have been standard
@@theotherguy4456 it's not debatable because it was expressly stated that there would be no rotation, and that they wouldn't consider it for years, then when they launched the new mode, aka standard, they advertised it as such.
Besides that, what defines wild is that all cards are legal, which was true at that point.
What defines standard is that expansions older than the previous 2 years have rotated out, which wasn't true then.
2:20 “a fun combo” that’s not quite how I remember it.
I remember the good old days of hearthstone
queued 9 match into 9 Reno priest makes me want to quit.
But did you try to play different decks against them or you just play the same deck for many hours straight? Maybe you just gotta try to counter them 'cause you can do that to priests.
@@MaxKolesov I can't see future and know what deck i will face bruh, funny.
when you play hearthstone, no matter what deck you play, it is boring to queue up again and again against the same deck
@@almondboi453 I mean if you put Skulging Geist into your deck the game won't give you Jade Druids, you'll just stop seeing them. It's stupid (cause why you wanna play 6 mana 4/6) but it works. Same with priests. Grizzled Wizard, Rat, Gnomeferatu. Just play Renolock and you will face less priests lol
@@MaxKolesov When you see a deck becomes tier 1 then use a deck to counter it, for example you can use deck with bomb/Galakrond cards as warrior to easily hunt Reno priest!
I quit playing last year, came back 3 months ago and already quit again.
Just don't care anymore with all the random bs.
I either lose due to random and i'm pissed or i win and it feels like its all due to randomness so i can't even feel happy about it.
The only real randomness i have actual problems is mage,i literrally had only one puzzle box of yogg saron were the mage didn't get lucky af,the problem with randomness is not when it's good,it's when it's way too good,and yes i am unlucky but damn if it's frustating to lose a game that you have basically won thanks to random removals,cards generators and minions generated by random spells
@@gabrielf.69 This is literally the reason why Yogg was originally nerfed. Puzzle Box is like a worse version of Yogg since all you need is 10 mana (or a cheat lol thx Blizz) and whee RNG fun.
@@gabrielf.69 And randomly generated/ Discovered Dragonqueen Alextraza.
Gaussian Entity that’s the point why I don’t understand they created the card puzzle box...?! Sure in worst case Yogg Saron could have been cast 29 spells but that unlikely.. so they nerfed it and x-expansions later almost same card again but in my opinion at least as same powerful as Yogg if not even stronger
@@wutgamer6434 definitely stronger; no requirements and you can play 2. :D
i miss the 7/7 boom days, love this time
I sense a serious lack of Yogg in this video.
thank you for stopping me from getting back into Hearthstone. This was the exact video I needed.
Well, i started the game during blackrock and i immediatly got hooked when i was smashed 1st time by patron warrior. It was so beatiful that i actually spent money on expansions to get death's byte, emperor and grim patrons. And than it was nerfed. Well, too early to give up, right? I found out that freeze mage is pretty cool deck and there was also miracle rogue that is still playable, but was way cooler with triple leeroy.
Hall of Fame gets introduced and both conceal and ice lance gets HoFed)
I played arena yesterday my shaman opponent played spell lackey into studies inyo 5 mana spell dmg and discover guy into hex to my deathwing
RNG Fiesta
Was your death wing randomly generated by a brightwing which you discovered with a draconic lackey that came from an evil cable rat?
@@Mitoru. actually from dragon studies
@@denizbiliciler6431 same shit different tactics bruh
@@Mitoru. ahahaha good one
I love how the thumbnail shows two different cards that do random things, but only one says random
Doctor boom wasn't random if you are talking about the bombs them yea
It's the same phenomenon as in many other "mainstream" games. "Random" reduces the element of skill, which allows for new players to bridge the skill gap against veterans who know the game a lot better. This prevents scaring off new players who would otherwise rarely win any games. Unfortunately it also spoils the experience -- there's nothing worse than losing because of bad luck rather than because of your own mistakes.
You're assuming, in my opinion incorrectly, that this randomness is taken to such an extreme that the *majority* of games are decided by skill rather than luck. While it is true that a good game lets the less skilled player win *some* games against a more skilled player, the more skilled player should be - and is - favored to win the match.
@@scrotiemcb5858 No, I'm not assuming that the randomness is taken to that extreme. Nowhere does it say that in my post -- that is your own projection.
Being favored isn't the crux of the matter either. It's the same as in XCOM where your recruit misses a 95% point-blank shot. You lose because of randomness rather than because of your skill, and that plain isn't fun. You should win or lose on your own merits, not because of some virtual coinflip.
@@shieldphaser I admit I haven't played XCOM, but I assume it's a single player game. If so, no, it's not comparable; the computer doesn't need motivation to continue against a more skilled opponent. It's not about the 5% chance of randomly losing; it's about the 5% chance of randomly _winning._ Obviously the former is the cost of enabling the latter.
@@shieldphaser Take some math classes, “random” in XCOM is so much different than random in Hearthstone. The % mechanic in XCOM is the average, meaning not every 95% will hit and not every 95% shot should hit, that’s like saying it’s a 100% shot. I guarantee you if you counted up all the shots in an XCOM campaign, you would see that the game is in fact, not working against you and so your statement that “you lose because of randomness” is totally false in XCOM’s case.
I would even argue that the % mechanic is very good for the game as it makes it more interesting. You need to consider what is gonna be your plan B if the shot you take fails. That actually makes the game even more skill-expressive. Sure it leads to some frustrating moments, but in most cases it’s only frustrating if you don’t know what you are doing. Take that from a guy who finished multiple campaigns on Commander/Ironman both with and without DLCs, including some campaigns where I didn’t even lose a single soldier.
@@theancientone1616 This is completely missing the point. If anything, XCOM cheats for you with the randomness on lower difficulties. That doesn't change the fact that losing because you missed three 90% shots in a row is very frustrating, which recently happened to me in long war (where the game doesn't cheat for you).
I genuinely think that the game would be better if anything above 80% just snapped to 100% and anything below 20% just snapped to 0%. It would make the outliers less frustrating and prominent.
I've stopped playing HS when Scholomance came out and already DAY1 of the expansion every deck i saw was either libram paladin or aggro rogue (standart player btw). But i still enjoy your content a lot and you've really outdone yourself this time
That's kind of the thing with high power sets. You'll mostly see either aggro or combo. Although I will have to hand it to Blizzard. They actually printed decent cards this time around instead of having boring unplayable junk like in previous high power sets.
@@GaussianEntity yeah, I'm excited to see how dual class cards will evolve in the future, if at all
so why not play wild? wild is fun and diverse
I found a good jumping-off point somewhere around Un'Goro; it was a boiling-up of several issues. Initially, I got into HS because it promised to be a CCG that actually let you have a competitive deck with cards that were readily-available. I loved that Basic cards like Fireball weren't tutorial filler junk that you were supposed to ditch once you bought/earned better cards, but were actually still valuable and usable. Over the years, I saw that the buff/nerf philosophy of HS was to remove Basic/Classic cards from the game in favor of pushing purchases to new cards; I was disheartened that the "nerf and buff cards to keep them interesting and playable" philosophy of the beta was replaced with "nerf cards in Basic/Classic and make them unplayable".
This was largely why I gravitated to jank combo decks like Patron Warrior, Anyfin Paladin, and Caves Quest Rogue; rather than play the vanilla Curvestone game they were trying to push, it was like I got to defy the rules of the game that Team 5 was setting up. And we saw how all of those decks wound up. Ultimately, I fell off of the game around Un'Goro because the actual game was less decision-making and more "execute decks according to plan". I think it focused too much on mimicking Magic instead of going in its own direction and bringing interesting new decisions to the table. I also grew sour on the game as the dev team (and some top players like Kibler) endorsed a policy of strict set rotation instead of nerfing and buffing cards--something that is standard practice for most digital games. I don't want to get in a game just to have to keep walking the new expansion treadmill, and it seemed clear to me that Blizzard's balance was catered to Standard and not Wild.
This randomness especially bothers me in Arena which used to be my favorite mode and primary method of earning card packs. I never directly purchased them with gold, i would gamble everything away at Arena. But nowadays it seems that your draft and skill doesn't matter anymore. There is so much random card generation that it's silly. Half of the time you're losing to cards that weren't in the opponent's deck to begin with. Arena is a mode where you craft a deck from 30 random choices, so you don't have the resources to deal with insane shit like randomly generated Dragonqueen Alextrasza into 2 good 1-cost dragons. Your decent deck played by a decent player can go 0-3 now because of this crap.
Want to be good at arena? You pick mage and draft any card that says 'Discover' on it. And hope for the best. Playing 10 discover cards in one arena game? No biggie!
We used to hate 4-mana dr boom from unstable portal, but even that is nowhere near 2020 fuckery levels.
I returned to arena after an year to find how crap it has become. Arena used to be all about value and utilizing your resources judiciously so that you have card advantage. Now the few games I have played, most end with each player having 6-7 cards in hand even after turn 15. There is just too much value and randomness.
Quite frankly, this is pathetic cope. If Arena truly was a clown fiesta of random luck, then you'd expect the Arena leaderboards to an essentially random collection of usernames - except it isn't. The #1 player in April-May was #57 in June-July, and the #2 player A-M was #10 J-J. Good players consistently get good results, although that does mean re-evaluating classes and cards as the format undergoes rotations, nerfs and buffs. Snap out of your nostalgia blindness, quit complaining and git good.
@@SwapnilSemwal Assuming limited Mana to play them all, more cards in hand is more piloting choice, not less. Randomness completely aside, the "add card to hand" mechanic common to modern Arena increases skill testing, doesn't decease it. Discover is part luck but mostly skill.
@@ich3730 Is poker 100% RNG in terms of gameplay? No, it isn't. That's why the leaderboards are stable.
@@scrotiemcb5858 accurate that a stinky neckbeard defends clown arena so much
*Opponent plays Jandice, getting Bittertide Hydra and Tundra Rhino for lethal*
Well shit, I should have played around it.
you should have by playing Standard :D
I disagree a bit on the whole "Hearthstone has become Random". Hearthstone has always been random, looking back on effects like Ragnaros and Sylvanas, it wasn't exactly healthy either. But this is the kicker, it wasn't about how good the random effects were, even though sometimes they were backbreaking, it was about how well you could play around them. This is, in my opinion, what changed over time, as Randomness became such a central part of the game that you can't really play around it anymore. There are still "skillfull" decisions in Hearthstone, there are actually too many, to the point where the individual choices rarely feel like they matter, because every turn is a coin toss anyways.
I feel you on this sentiment. It's almost always best to just not play around specific cards because you put yourself at an incredible disadvantage not doing your incredibly broken stuff.
Eh this was true even back then. Piloted Shredder and Knife Juggler were very hated cards for this same reason. Yogg was disliked for a while too. The skill thing has always been mostly overstated though. A lot of games were decided by early draws even though most people won't admit it. The RNG made some lost games winnable while making already won games a loss.
Agreed, I feel like all the complaining about randomness and wishing for Hearthstone to be like 'the good old days' is seen through rose-tinted glasses. Solem pointed out the "fun" Druid win condition of Force of Nature w/ Savage Roar, but people hated playing against that combo back in the day, just as they hate Lightning Bloom w/ Guardian Animals etc now. The real problem in my eyes is the Discover mechanic, far too many cards have it, ensuring that you can almost never have a read on your opponent's hand to play around specific cards.
Imo the blame is on the over exaggerated discover cards which drop other cards which also drop other cards and so on. Not only makes it nearly impossible to play around but totally destroys the purpose of deckbuilding.
@@GaussianEntity what they mean is with knife juggler it's known rng and you csn play around it by trying. To kill juggler or going extra wide so that it's less likely to hit your best threat
With shredder you can play around it by deciding when you want to pop it
I only play this game because of the visuals and the random, the surprise mixed with the eye candy is the most satisfying dopamine effect ever.
You forgot to mentioned Emperor Thaurissan whose is the progenitor of mana cost discount. You forgot Mysterious Challenger the most hated card (second to Dr. Boom) at the time. I also remembered that Priest's early game was so bad that they had to rely on Auchenai + Circle of Healing combo to survive against aggro players. And the Old Gods brought in one of the most diverse meta (in my opinion).
I like your analysis.
And yes Mysterious Challenger is just a dumb card.
6 mana 6/6 with draw 5 secrets and play 5 secrets. Which is about 12, 5 mana cheated!
Who would have known that it would be broken?
I really hated that meta.
'Lets look at a nerfed hero. Jaina' me staring at her chest realizing what I was thinking at first
Do you remember her old badass voice?
you really should do more of these history videos :D was surprisingly interesting to hear you talk about what decks have been viable etc :) maybe do one vid for each class and go deeper into history :D
I once played a game where I played first day of school as paladin, which gave me babbling book, which gave me unstable portal, which gave me frightened flunky, which gave me tirion.
I would like to point out that Zoo was not invented by Reynad but by Brian Kilbler back in his MtG days.
Blizz logic: RNG=FUN!
Also Blizz logic Waiting=CONTENT
Solem: Why did you leave hearthstone
Me: Yes, exactly all the reasons you stated after that question😭
I really hadn't realised that RNG had become such a huge things in HS until I played LoR, since then I just can't unsee the 'Created by' and I play a game of 'count the number of cards my opponents played that WERE ACTUALLY in his starting deck.
You really care about the details when you're making a video, that's really impressive.
I used to watch other hearthstone creators but for the last week and a half I’ve been watching your videos alone. How are you so entertaining?
"Vorerior" - Solem trying to say 'Warrior'
best way to say it
I heard voyeur 🤣
Lol, I wondered if he is german.
This is the only legal way to say it
shadown anduin still gives me the shivers
The thing that originally inspired me to play the game were the old "Lord of the Gimmicks" videos TotalBiscuit the Cyclical Brit made a long time before he died. my personal favorite being "Healed to Death"
I personally play Hearthstone for the adventures. Battlegrounds and constructed are just there to farm the gold needed for the next adventures. :p
I haven't stopped, I still play Arena to this day!
Random cards are fun. I had a ton of fun playing a homebrew Spectral Cutlass Thief Rouge but the problem lies in the fact that those incredibly random cards aren't just meme cards but actually competitively viable. Yogg-Box is the perfect example of this.
I love the amount of randomness currently in Hearthstone, probably wouldn't play the game if it wasn't there. I just feel like it helps games feel more fresh and requires you to think on your feet.
Yes I agree, you never know what to expect and it really isnt completely random, you have to figure out how to work with what you get
this about sums up perfectly how I feel about hearthstone now.
If you're reading this and considering coming back to the game, PLEASE DON'T. The phrase "competitive Hearthstone" is an oxymoron. You can and will lose games in a single turn from cards that didn't start in your opponent's deck; if that isn't the antithesis of strategy, I don't know what is.
Good video and you bring up some good points. Randomness can alter the course of some games (and allow for some crazy Trolden highlights) but it also keeps the game fresh. One of the most fun decks to play in Standard right now (and I said fun, not necessarily best) is Thief Rogue because you never know when an outrageous win condition might get thrown your way. Is it fun to play against? Well, it keeps you on your toes and you have to be ready for anything. I think Kibler would argue that these kinds of decks are fun because you have to look for the way to win based on what you're given, and you don't have the same "Leeroy + Shadowstep + Eviscerate" ending combo each game. I play Bomb Warrior, which has randomness built into it as you mentioned, but there are games where it comes to choosing my win condition - draw the game out so that my bombs finish them off, or play aggressively to try to kill them, while leaving myself open to burst damage? I think most decks in the game have some interesting dedcision-making along these lines.
game died when they separated wild and standard cuz it means they will just keep printing same cards each 3 months cuz imagine X class loss his board clear they need replacement each 3 expansion and thus makes wild mode insanely op broken decks that get snowballed and get feeding over time and dev refuse to balance wild cuz its no longer main mode and doesn't make them money compare to standard as for standard you just buy same card with different art style each 3 month that does same thing cuz old version of it now in wild mode , also making expansion only and not rotation of 1 expansion 1 adventure means casual won't be able to catch up cuz developer bad greeds of activision blizzard and developers also to blame they work for this scummy company and all they care their pay checks and not quality of the game
Most of top tier decks in wild are aggro or mid range. Just a few control decks are competitive. Also there are just o small amount of RNG in competitive wild decks. I wold say that is close to the right amount of RNG it should have. Wild is the closest Hearthstone come to be a good card game.
I love my random Reno’s Mage because it takes the exact principle of the video and takes it to the extreme. Most of the cards in the deck have “random” printed on them in some form or another (discover is used too). It doesn’t do insanely well, obviously, but it still made it to gold 10 without breaking a sweat. The last expansion felt devoid of much interesting content, so hopefully the new mode changes that.
Drinking game: take a shot whenever he says random
Remember when Randuin was neat cuz of all the random effects?..
Rest in peace shirval paladin
I miss the old days because they had interesting single player content. it was like a puzzle to solve then you get rewarded with a specific card that is themed around that adventure and can only be acquired from that adventure. nowadays you either get randomly generated bosses that you fight with randomly generated cards, or you fight the lich king and get your ass handed to you for a pack of random cards.
I still don't have Arthas hero portrait because he keeps beating my ass as paladin.
Honestly, this video needs a *lot* and I mean a lot more views. Solem, ya keep doing great content and these are a joy to watch.
Thank you for this fantastic presentation of what happened in the last few years! Pure nostalgia haha :)
I played a TON of Hearthstone about 5-6 years ago and was curious what the changes were. This is a perfect summary in about 10 minutes. Honestly, HS does not seem as fun as it did, at least to me.
2:14 "and finish the game by using a *fun* combination of Force of Nature and Savage Roar" - I'll find any excuse to support what Solem says, but after this sentence, I could tell we are just not on the same page at all xD I much prefer Hearthstone in 2020 than 2014, and I like the mechanic of adding some random cards to your deck. Keeps games fresh instead of the same cards in every game. Everyone enjoys different things of course.
Maybe you would be a better player if you believed in the heart of the cards.
😂😂👏
@@spysideways7824 Rips out wallet from back pocket
hoping for a new yugioh game thats more like it
If some people ask themselves why sometimes they like random and sometimes not, it's due to pre or post random (before or after the player decision).
Note: here the notions of good and bad depends of the feelings that players usually have.
Shortly, for those who don't want to watch videos on the topic, pre random is "good" because it involves adaptation of the player to different situation and the player have the last word (something happen, what do you want to do ?)
Instead, post random is "bad" because player usually can't entirely control him or respond. The main thing this can do is just stopping or increase a player action. (you try something, random say if it's work or not)
Personally I stopped playing back in 2019 just after the hong kong drama. That didn't actually have any impact on me personally quitting the game, it's just in the right time frame. No, I quit because the price of new cards and expansions was ludicrously expensive, new expansions made old decks invalidated and the awkward rotation made sure that there would only be one viable deck for each class in standard, if even that, all while wild was ignored by blizzard. But I think the biggest reason was that a better alternative for me as a player came out in Legends of Runeterra.
The worst thing about random in Hearthstone is that a LOT of cards who do not have the word "random" in their text are actually random, because it's implied.
I love the amount of randomness of hearthstone and I don't think it negates skill at all. It just makes those good at math and probability be better... in the long run
This game makes me fell unlucky when I lose and just lucky when i win, just that, a dice rollup.
In Pokemon (the TCG and the competitive video games) we have had this from the very beginning. The game moves from being more hard deterministic, -- victory depending on your choices only, because only your choices can effect the game-state -- to being more probabilistic. This was bound to happen with a "card game" that was a computer game from the beginning.
I recommend giving legends of runeterra a good try I gave it a chance and I haven't played hearthstone since. It's amazing! When I lose in runeterra ots 95% of the time my fault and not rng also the game dosen't make you pay 100s of dollars to keep playing it. You can actually play legends of runeterra and have every card for free just by playing
Same here.
Played around 200 hours of hearthstone back in 2016 and then kinda dropped it. Now got into LoR when the beta came out and a few weeks ago revisited Hearhtstone and it's so bad. Like, everything about it is just terrible. And yes, collecting cards is so much easier in LoR.
#ad
@jocaguz18 Not a Riot bot, just prefer LoR's battle phases and rounds over other card games.
It's not just the random effects, it's also the extreme power level cards, which allow you to highroll into victory, that have destroyed Hearthstone.
It feels more like one of those 'emperors new clothes' moments.
Hearthstone hasnt changed, ppl are just finally starting to see it for what it always was.
I remember when the most random swing was when a mad bomber would kill an enemy 2 drop if you're lucky
I remember a match where I was playing Warlock. I played Galakrond, as I already had invoked 4 times and with Galakrond's damage I had lethal, and the first minion that was summoned was Unlicensed Apothecary. I had 14 life. Playing Galakrond literally made me lose, because I received 15 damage. Yes, I got really mad and closed HS immediately to play another game.
Liked commented subscribed … I started playing hearthstone in 2015 and after a few years just got bored once I’d made a “solid” deck for each class, but after quitting I’ve decided to play again when I went on holiday, and I’d say enough now has changed to make it fresh for longer, all the new mechanics are confusing, I have to hover over every card played to make sure I understand the card text and effects, I’d say for now I have the fun factor back, new game modes, the season pass, I don’t know how long for, but I’m excited tweaking my decks into wild decks to include the proper wild cards again before I started to remove the most synergistic cards just to play standard at the time… wild is definitely where it’s at! 💪🔥
* p.s downloaded the game again a month ago from now
League of explorers freeze mage, pre-warsong nerf patron warrior, and dead man's hand warrior are my favorite decks of all time.
Cool video, I like this nostalgia theme
Fortunately, there are still classic bugs to remind you that it is BugStone. 😂😂😂
You hit the nail on the head. Trying to compete against people who spent hundreds of dollars on the "Free" game I had once Loved became so frustrating that I finally quit. I remember being more excited about the launch of this game than I had been about anything else in Years.
people play regularly and limit themselves to 2-3 decks per expansion dont need to spend any dollars to stay competitive. Packs gold/money cost isn't the problem here
oh well, was thinking about getting back but after a bit of research I found out that the game I fell in love with when it was still beta, became complete and utter horse shit. back in the day when ,,random,, was appearing more and more I said if this wont stop, this game will die.......and well.....here we are....rip HS, we had some good times
Nobody:
Solem: Vorrior
(subscribed at this point)
I think it's actually healthy that it's become more random, when I compare it to YuGiOh for instance, wherein the game has evolved to be completely centered around combos to the point where games are consistently over by turn 4
Yugioh was shit to begin with
The problem with random is that it takes a lot of the skill away from players. A board can go from "im winning after a long hard fight" to "i lost because even though I played perfectly. My opponent played a 1 mana card that gave him a fireball that killed me." Something like yugioh, which I do play competitively, is still skill intensive in how the competitive works with combo decks needing to play around handtraps and interaction while control decks need to know what to stop, how to stop, and what to do after stopping a deck.
i feel like as someone who owns all the cards the random aspect can be frustrating. But as someone who doesnt even own 5% of the cards, generating random cards gives me a chance to enjoy more of the game. I love burgle rouge just because i really want to see different cards i dont have. So im actually pretty glad this mechanic exists, otherwise i have one deck which plays the same every game and i dont have the resources to do anything else.
Thanks for your video. I feel like this comment will be lost in all the good ones I’ve read so far. But anyway:
I dropped Hearthstone way back in 2016, if I remeber correctly it was some time after the N’Zoth and Old Gods update with a new mechaNic
The reason was simple - I played the game to go up the ladder. However, as the time passed I became more aware that in order to go higher I have to possess more exclusive cards; which led to spending more money (or 24/7 grind for coins). I did spend a good portion, but it wasn’t enough. I remember that I’ve read guides on the best decks to build one, and a very minimum for the deck was like 5 elites/new expansion cards, I’ve only had 2-3. So I felt like no matter what my skill was I can’t go any further with my rating. The extra weight was that I’ve played almost since the game was launched and as the oil rogue and secret paladin I used to hit 3rd position in the rating (sorry I don’t remember the real name of the system). Without any excessive donations I felt the intrigue of the matches and some lucky unlucky situations were less dominant in the match and you could really think ahead and count the cards in order to make a strategy.
I didn’t have a slightest interest in watching or playing HS in the past 4 years and from what I’ve heard it became even more RNG based and P2W based. Whether it’s true or not, I don’t have a longing to go back to it due to the mechanic that old cards that you spend money or grind on - fall in disuse (like the clothing fashion, only in HS case YOU HAVE TO follow it as well).
Once more, thank you for the video, and spending time comparing it with what it used to be and elaborating. I was truly shocked how the game acquired so many mechanics and even more cards.
Man you guys have it rough I remember playing the game when Dr. Boom was a thing and randomly deciding the game. Had a ton of fun with hearthstone but I don't miss a bit after random become the new meta.
I stopped when they introduced standard and wild and killed all my hard work basically saying, "if you want to play the 'real' ladder, keep spending 300-400 bucks every three months". Or at least that's how I remember it, it was quite a while ago.
its the same thing over and over. 2016-2018 was my favourite time in hearthstone
There are a lot of great Hearthstone content creators. But you are without a doubt the best one. Keep making great videos
I really like your honest opinion and analysis.
I fell in love with the base game of Hearthstone and the first expansion.
Yet now it feels like the typical money grab, printing more and more broken cards just to sell packs and get people hyped.
They created Demon Hunter which was still broken after three nerfs.
And like you have pointed out, reducing the cost of cards to 0 is one of the main issues with cards breaking the game.
Just with DQA, it went from game winning to unplayable.
They should bring the cost of DQA down to 8 mana so you can play her on turn 8 or 9.
Now she is too slow and just a dead card.
Who run a 8 mana 8/8 nowadays?
BTW you have earned a sub.
I wish they made a mode where only expansions till Ungoro could be played.. I liked that.. 😇
Now it's.. Yeah.. 😔
Despite myself loving multiple cards from future expansions (including DKs), I have to agree and say exactly there was a great place for the game. KFT made Big priest and OTK priest much better, put UI and Spreading Plague in, and DMH warlock for infinite armor. I mained control priest/warlock/druid, so I like those cards, but for different reasons. I see completely how they're bad for the game.
ah, we've reached the peak of meta, the 'created by' meta
I used to play standard. then I got bored and switched to wild to play mostly meme decks while climbing the wild ladder. And I got results with at least a little bit of fun.
Tbh i quit standard more beceause of altruis solely but yeah i played against a lot of spell mages which is just random and yeah could be another reason why i quit
The most fun decks for me were Malygos Rogue and Control Warrior from TGT era
Yeah that pretty much sums up the history of how the best card game that come to existence slowly turned in RandomStone...
Not mentioning the most skillful arquetype: evolve shaman
Only been playing for a few months so I assumed the randomness always was a key feature of the game with how much randomness there is in hearthstone
Surprised big priest never got a mention because everyone loves big priest
I played to hit high legend, I did, I quit. Came back a year later, did it again, I quit. Actually 0 no reason to put time into being good at this game.
No shit
I haven't played the game for quite some time now. I remember getting frustrated with "random" effects back then. I think big priest (with 4 mana barnes), ice block and jade idol were why I stopped playing honestly. I also remember getting pretty frustrated with aggro shaman when it was in it's prime.
Edit: Also my favourite archetype, miracle rogue, which was so satisfying got increasingly nerfed. Also with new cards/power creep it kind of just fell off.
When life coach made that video i saw the writing on the wall.
I had already gotten to this conclusion 5 years ago