What Suttas Are Authentic? -- Discussion | 2020-03-09 | Bhante Joe
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มี.ค. 2020
- A Dhamma scussion based on the question (paraphrased)...
What suttas in the Pali Canon are authentic?
**Note: @14:20, it seems that the story about the Buddha taking a woman by the hand comes from a Commentary to the Vinita-Vatthu and is not actually from the Vinita-Vatthu itself.
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One of my favorite sutras is the Kalama sutra, which I think is the perfect introductory sutras to more skeptical westerners like I was. My interpretation of it is that one’s understanding of Dharma is fully and completely personal, and when one is careful to avoid traps like ego or wrong perceptions, self reflection and introspection is one of our greatest tools for spiritual growth. I think once someone understands this, they can come to their own conclusions about the authenticity of teachings.
Very interesting. I am glad you raised this very contentious issue on purity, authenticity on what we find in the pali Cannon. I am not denying on what we have as Buddha Dhamma for the sake of mankind but to claim purity, authenticity or originality as they are the true words of the Buddha as he uttered during his own time is questionable, considering the schools and traditions that prevailed just after the parinibbana of the Buddha. The one that *survived* amongst 12 or so is now known as the Theravada.
🙏🙏🙏
I read the Girimanada sutta, is this your teaching.
Could you rephrase the question. I didn't understand.
Venerable Bhante at 14:20 you state there is a story on Kuddaka Nikaya where Buddha takes a woman by the hand and take her to heaven , i have not come across that story going through the books in Sri Lanakan ( Buddha Jayanthi Tipitaka. May you specify where it comes from? If the Buddha would want to show the heaven he can use his physcic powers to do that without touching.
From memory, this is in the Vinita Vatthu or Petavatthu. Yes, this behavior doesn't seem in line with what the Buddha would do. For this reason, it was given as an example of a sutta which some may think is inauthentic.
Am currently staying at a solitary kuti and so it is difficult to search the Canon. Will plan to check the actual sutta reference when I return to the main monastery and reply.
From memory, had actually read this in a draft translation of the vimana-vatthu. Checked with a Bhikkhu who had made a note on it It seems that the that this story may have come from the Atthakatha. You're correct, as it appears that it's not in the actual Vimana-Vatthu. Will plan to put a note in the description of this talk.
🙏🙏🙏 shukhi hontu
Venerable Bhante, The Tipitaka was organized in the life time of the Buddha. It was made into a practice of carrying down among generations in a formal way after the 1st Buddhist councills.
There are examples on Velukantahki Nanda Matha reciting "Parayana Wagga" , Sona KutaKanna Arahant Thero resiting "Attaka Wagga". Both these events happened when Buddhas was living.
And in Ananada Arahant Thero Udana , its is stated he memeroized 84,000 Dhamma, which covered all Tipitakas. This statement was made in Ananda Thero was alive.
Yes, that is true. This talk does not deny that suttas were memorized during the Buddha's lifetime. Close to the beginning, it's stated that the suttas were organized in a different way before the Nikaya scheme took prominence. The Buddha describes this organization scheme as consisting of birth stories, question and answer, dialogues, etc. If the Buddha was staring this, then of course, it occurred during his lifetime.
This talk states that one possibility is that the Nikaya organization scheme was created at the second council. However, this is only a possibility. This is not to deny that suttas were memorized and organized during the Buddha's lifetime prior to the use of the Nikaya organization method.
dhamma is not dogma. Thank you for searching for the truth and remaining skeptical.
Very happy it might have been helpful. Such a blessing to have the Buddha's teachings.