The Slavic Venetic Connection
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2020
- My second channel M. Laser Random- / @mlaserrandom
where I just upload random videos from game-plays to vlogs and more.
My Patreon- / mlaser
My Twitter- / mnlaser
Video scripts with sources are available for free on my Patreon.
For extra historical information and corrections see the pinned comment.
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#History #Slavs #Slavic
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Extra Information & sometimes Corrections if needed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0:01 My old Slavic video, I can't really recommend you watch it- th-cam.com/video/6UVT1sJ3TuU/w-d-xo.html
0:08 The Slavic Venetic connection is different from the "Venetic Theory" which is an inaccurate autochtones theory created by Slovenian nationalists.
0:08 The symbol I chose for the Veneti here is a common symbol found on Przeworsk culture type weapons, this culture type was in the same area where the Veneti where described to live so it's very likely the said Veneti used this symbol.
0:55 Graia is where the Latin name Greece comes from even though Greeks call themselves Hellas and back than they didn't really even use that as they saw themselves as many independent people's like Ionians, Dorians, etc. The name Greece just came from Romans being very much indifferent to what the Greeks actually said their differences were.
1:07 I omitted what Malone classified the Vistula Veneti as (also sorry for the little spelling mistake Indo-European not "Indi"), which is Germanic. I do this because in the end it's the same conclusion this video comes to and it would be too early in the video to talk about why Malone would classify the Veneti as Germanic. Hence to not confuse any people not familiar with the subject I omitted the Malone's Germanic argument at the start.
1:42 In Roman chronicles, 'near' and 'at' are two different markers. Near does not mean at the Baltic sea hence why I put the Veneti a bit south of the Baltic beaches.
1:50 I say clumsily because Roman writers rarely mention strait up geographical markers and cardinal directions. They usually start off with one Geographical marker and then continue on saying tribes that live next to it and than tribes that live next to those tribes, etc. This way it's sometimes hard to decipher where exactly some of these tribes where in relation to the starting geographical marker.
2:13 Sorry I am incapable of reading Sarmatians without adding an extra 'n' to it, "Sermantians".
3:22 Cassiodorus' work was in turn based upon an even earlier work by the Gothic historian Ablabius.
5:10 Work by Malalas has been lost and only a portion of it survives in a Theophanes rewriting.
5:45 I don't have the time nor care enough to talk about the MANY inaccuracies all these theories and others have. If you believe one of them just know that they have no bases in any Historical, Archaeological or Genealogical, research.
5:50 Not all Serbians believe this. I should have added that this is just a nationalistic theory, most Serbians are thought normal history in school.
6:44 They did this by trying to connect the Veneti to a Proto-Slavic tribe common to all modern Slavs.
7:06 Also a lot of other stuff we don't have time to get in to like stone furnaces with a specific size, storage pits with narrowed necks, etc.
7:15 Archaeological culture types also often overlap specially on their borders which you will see on the maps in this video.
8:50 Although not completely accurately. For example it's unknown how far north did the Marcomanic and Hermunduric control extend, also at the same time it's not completely specified where north of the Danube the Naristi where, they could have been a bit (although not by much) further up stream or down stream than where I have put them. But over all we are able to create a pretty accurate picture.
8:52 The blue tribes in today's Slovakia and Northern Romania are the remnants of Celtic tribes that invaded Pannonia during the Celtic invasion of the 4th century BCE. You can find out more in this video -th-cam.com/video/PyOz5EP2imQ/w-d-xo.html
Those tribes at this point as you can see overlap with Dacian and Sarmatian tribes because they have been very much mixed with those populations. These Celts will eventually disappear during Hunnic invasion.
10:43 Chronologically my 5th point comes before the 4th point as attested by the dates in the top right corner and I apologize for the confusion, I noticed this too late to fix it.
12:44 Weilbark is the only culture type that seems to be just Germanic.
12:58 Russians mainly promoted Kiev or Chernyakhov during the USSR era when all the culture types where all still within one country.
13:40 Slavs called yew and willow the same thing which is why in the video I used the current Polish name for willow as an example.
They also called spruce and larch the same thing.
This is why today for example larch in Slovak is "smrek" while in Serbian spruce is "smrk" not larch.
You'll see a lot of current Slavic languages use very similar names for trees but for different types of trees. This is because they usually all come from a single borrowed word that defined all the trees of that type (type usually just meant looking similar as back then there weren't scientific differentiations between different species of a similar trees).
14:23 These "Slavic" hill forts differ from previous fortification in their communal setup. Prior to the 5th century most forts resembled large Roman influence with distinguished social classes like masons, and farmers, etc. "Slavic" hill forts on the other hand, other than occurring much more frequently on hills than previous forts, have a much more fluid social order with very rarely distinguished hierarchies being found in the archaeological record.
14:45 It could also be remnants of Baltic tribe hill-forts just like the ones in Latvia.
16:02 The Teutonic order wasn't a tribe, a pour choice of an on screen example, I am sorry.
19:11 There are accounts of Slavic warriors being present at the Hunnic court meaning the Slavs managed to establish themselves during the Hunnic era, further supporting the emergence of the Prague type pottery cultures during this time.
19:19 Keep in the mind the Slavic Prague type pottery cultures weren't just Slavic. They most likely where majority Slavic but had a sizable heterogeneous minority. With the Prague type pottery cultures in southern Ukraine having Sarmatians and other steppe people influences the groups in Eastern Germany, Western Poland and Czechia having Germanic influences, etc.
19:54 The most recent common ancestor of any haplogroup is between 3000 to 5000 years ago. Which
A. is a difference of 2000 years, that is a huge time scale just think of how much happened in just our last 2000 years. Trying to make ethnic migratory prediction off of that is impossible.
B. That would put the most recent genetic changes we can track at the soonest 1000BCE at the collapse of the Bronze age. While the event we're trying to understand is the Migration period happening 1500 years later. So DNA really can't tell us about migratory movement that happened during the early middle ages.
21:07 It is debated whether the small axe pedant found in eastern Europe around the 10th to 12th centuries was only of Varangian (Scandinavian) origin or it was also used by Slavs.
The practice of wearing a small weapon as a pedant definitely originated form Scandinavia (see Thor's hammer pedant) and was brought to the Slavs through the Varangian raids in to Eastern Europe. However considering that some axe pedants, also called Perun's axe (Perun was the Slavic deity of lightning a Slavic equivalent to Thor, who was often represented by an axe.) where found in areas where Scandinavians would be hard press to be like in Hungary, it is most likely this practice of wearing small weapon pedants to symbolize gods was adopted by the Slavs from the Scandinavians.
www.academia.edu/4119225/Early_medieval_miniature_axes
Very good video!!!
I would like to ask if you will be doing history of each of Slavic country?
Can you do a video about Indo-Aryans
@@strangelyukrainian7314 Most corrections are very nuance things I wouldn't have seen before publishing no matter how much time I would have. For example in this video I says that Serbians think they have been in the Balkans for 6000 years. Now this is true however now seeing the comments I know I should have added the caveat that this is just nationalistic Serbs that think this not all Serbs. Stuff like this I know I really wouldn't have thought of when making the video no matter how much time I would have.
Plus if you read through it most correction are like these or spelling errors again something that will happen always to me not matter how much time I have.
!90%! of the stuff is just extra information and nuance that I cut out of the video in the first place because the video can be only so long and I can't constantly go on side notes all the time. They're basically like footnotes you would see in any academic paper/book.
If I truly think I need more time to finish a video I usually postpone it as shown on my Maximilian video for example. But after all I get supported by my Patreons monthly and they expect one video a month. It's not like I am tenure professor that can take as much time as needed to finish a project. The show must go on and some mistakes will always happen no matter how much time I take.
@@MLaserHistory First time listener of your channel, this video popped up and its weird how TH-cam works...because this has been a topic Ive been fascinated by myself.
Not Slavic at all, but I love the story of the Indo-Europeans and their progeny, and the archeological cultures of ancient Europe.
This, was by far, one of the best videos I've ever seen on the subject.
The culture types vs history vs linguistics!!
I loved it! Keep up the great work my friend.
I've liked and subscribed as well.
Thank You from America.
@@MLaserHistory Correction: Race is a social construct. Ethnicity, less so if at all. Though I realize that I may not have all relevant sources & therefore my statement may be incorrect.
*I guess what I'm trying to ask is your opinion on the race vs ethnicity debate. What is the difference? Where do they overlap?
EDIT: Thank you for any reply & insight! I genuinely want to know
Meanwhile in Polish schools: "One day Lech, Czech and Rus came to the forest, divided the lands, and that's how it began. Let's skip to 966 when we were Christianised by Mieszko."
I mean for most of history many countries started their teaching about history when they where Christianized since that was to them the biggest deal that happened.
So historically it actually makes sense to start with it. Also it makes writing down textbooks far easier as you don't have to introduce complicated historical nuance that confuse kids even more.
@@MLaserHistory in russian history class everything starts with Rurik and Novgorod and than swiftly moves into Kiev and pillaging Constantinopol.
Than there is a wonderful story of Olga, destruction of khazars and only after it christianization by Sviatoslav`s bloody-kinslayer-bastard Vladimir the Holy.
After it suddenly everybody is very peaceful (except kinslaying princes, but who cares) - seems to be a moralist story, at least partially.
But this is becasue we know nothing about early Slavs, and If you want head hurt read about allochtonism vs indigenousism which is forever in Polish historiography. Still to this day you can see it in this Topic on biggest Poland historical forum, 400+ pages monster www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=42083
@@swietoslaw is there a translation of the said forum, couse it seems interesting and currently i have nothing but time
That can be true. As ik story (real one) there was a serbian land Croatia. Where were nonstop wars between serbs and west. Lech Ceh and Rus took vulnerable population and left. On way they seeded 3 oak trees (idk word of tree in english i thik its oak) and today they can still be seen all togheter. In 9th century there was big war trying to destroy serbs. Its hidden like 70% of serbian history.
lol Tacitus might as well had written on the Veneti: "They drink water, breathe air and eat food."
Maybe he was writing for a dating service "quite fond of travel by foot" and long walks on the beach
If they were slavs they would have not drink water🤣🤣🤣
@@witcherson9581 polish vodka is great!
I think that he's basically saying "THEY ARE NOT SARMATIANS OK?"
@@Lanval_de_Lai There's a theory that Croatians are desendents of Sarmatians, which is an Iranian tribe. There's very early evidence of the red and white checkered grb or coat of arms on Iranian ancient pottery. Who knows? I've heard origin stories having us originating around the Don River around Ukraine/Poland/Russia. But there have been many boundary changes throughout the centuries.
It's worth considering how Romans learned the names of distant tribes. Probably Procopius and Tacitus just interrogated slaves from Germania, who gave whatever name their own tribes used for them. A very similar thing occured in the Americas, where many tribes were named in Spanish and American ethnologies as "our hated enemies" in the language of whichever friendly tribe they happened to be speaking to. Ex: the Anasazi were a disappeared culture in the Southwest, and their name literally means "ancient enemy" in Navajo.
This is a very good point.
or eskimo (raw eaters) a deprecate term for inuits
I know about the Navajo. Apparently, their name for corn comes from "enemy food."
@@MLaserHistory I wonder if you have ever heard of the potential connection between Sarmatian tribes and the origin of the names of the 'Croats' and 'Serbs?' Not the crazy conspiracy theory, but there was an ancient Sarmatian tribe near the Caspian Sea called the 'Serboi/Serbi,' and there are written records of the personal name 'Huruathes' being used by Sarmatians near the Sea of Azov. These names have connections to the ethnonyms for Serbs and Croats, which are 'Srbi' and 'Hrvati' in the native language. It is generally believed that those names aren't Slavic in origin, and the Slavs in general have an Iranian language influence in their languages, mainly connected to religion and such, which usually occurs due to an ethnic group having influence on the leadership of a society. Some people think that the 'Serboi' and a so far undiscovered 'Huruathes' Sarmatian tribe might have been pushed west by the Huns and ended up mingling with or even ruling over early Slavic tribes, and eventually got assimilated. There is more evidence in the fact that some early Slavic princes listed by Byzantine scholars had apparently non-Slavic names, but ultimately there is no hard evidence for this beyond the similarity of the 'Serboi/Serbi/Srbi' and the 'Huruathes/Hrvati' connection, and the Iranian/Sarmatian influence on Slavic. It was just an interesting theory I thought you might be interested in reading about.
Grandfather Czech is real tho... But I think he was only leading the group of Slavic settlers who were maybe sent out to create a new city - so it's not the beginning but already in the middle of our history.
IIn Finnish, "Russia" is "venäjä" and Estonians call them "venemaa", don't know whetter this has anything to do with the venetti thing but seems at least to be quite a coincident-
Yes they have a connection. The Germanic people called those slas Venetti/Vendi. The Finns, Estonian and other Baltic Finns/(Fenns?) took that name and started also calling the Slavs Venetti/Vendi. It slowly transformed to "Venejä" and "Venemaa" which now mean Russia. Basically it's a loanword.
That's exactly why we call them that. Finnish is what you'd call a "linguistic fridge", which means that words and vocabulary barely change at all, or do so very slowly. Similarly we call Germany "Saksa" because of the Saxons, and Russia "Venäjä" because a long time ago their ancestors were called the Veneti/Vendi by Germanic tribes. Essentially we keep referring to peoples by their older names
Wardeni In Spanish we call Germany, “Alemania” which was a Germanic tribe called the Alemanni. I guess each European language calls other countries after ancient tribes that used to border them.
In Russia, we call the Finnish language “pukkala-kakkala” because found simplification of that language ridiculous.
Radziwill 😂😂😂
I have long been puzzled by the fact that slavic people just popped out of existence and just appeared suddenly. This video helped a lot in gaining an insight into the topic, thank you! Best wishes!
Clearly they didn’t. They must have been present many centuries earlier but under another name or group of names. I’m sure there are sightings of them as far back as Herodotus.
@galynahagen5939 the question is what we classify Huns, considering that they kind of federated several tribes.
3 words that point us at Huns show slavic origins for those, but none of those words identify Hunnic as a Slavic language due to lack of attested Hunnic language.
I'm hungarian and I really enjoyed your video! I hate so much that our (I mean us, people in Eastern-Europe) attitude towards history is full of politics and nationalism when we are rather similar than different. Thank you, I learnt a lot! 😊
We should petition to get word slave
Out of the dictionary......or the remake of it and not being linked to a particular culture or a name of the culture.....its directly linked to
Us ......in all Germanic or Anglo
Languages to us Slavs
@@anyakosta364 Also, one Roman king was named - Servius (Serbius, v=b) 🤣
I m in France and it s the same for us too ^^
@@anyakosta364 I guess they've already updated the meaning of the word...
Now they should update the understanding that modern 'Russians' are not of Slavic descent but of ancient Androphagi.
Hi Hun!
It is good that there is someone who explores Eastern European history with objective scientific aproach and "nothing is black and white" attitude.
People in Eastern Europe (even worse, a big part of the accademia) think in an outdated inacurate frame of thought from the 20th century and refuse to move on, beacause it's inconvinient.
GOOD JOB!
Oof I would hate that kind of environment as a history student
@@martinp3166 I would too, as do many teachers, scientists and historians. In most of the countries things are changing for the better, problem is that people expext changes to be quick. Great changes are rearely quick.
This is so true.
Lol. This reminds me very much of Indian history in academia. With people holding on to 19th & 20th century theories without evidence while others try to twist modern research to present narrative with nationalist or religious undertones.
Add to that modern Indian history during the British colonial era & you get a toxic mix where people will call each other facist or race-traitor for even trying to do any objective research.
@@arkadeepkundu4729 It's exactly like that right now on the Balkans, and it's only getting worse.
The problem with mtDNA and Y-DNA is that they shows only small part of ancestry. Fortunately the rapid development of genetics has made it possible to study the entire genome, including for archaic DNA studies (studies of DNA people that died). So there will be plenty of new discoveries in near future, especially since research has become much cheaper than even 10 or 20 years ago (even up to two or three orders of magnitude)
sadly early Slavs used to burn their bodies
Venetic literally means "foreigner" in the Romanian language
It's a Greek word though...
N'wah
@@ingwiafraujaz3126 Actually Y'wah
@@ingwiafraujaz3126 s'wit
@@StarlessAH Who you calling a s'wit, fetcher?
Well, we the Serbs were first in the universe, then the Croats and then the amebas... After that we invented God and let him do the rest! That's a fact, I am suprised that some of you don't know that! Simple common knowlidge...
Long live the Serbs!
HAhahaha Good one brate
Everybody knows that.
The Serbs are the only true descendants of the Atlantian's bro and built the pyramids after they pissed off Poseidon. Thats a fact
Does not The Bible says: SERBIA STRONK!
I'm sure it's somewhere in there ...
i hope you, every one of us, just realises that we are all brothers and that we should not fight, but we should unite and prosper
greetings and blessings from Croatia
thank you sir for your extensive historical work, helps much better than the school i'm afraid...
Finding well-researched videos about slavic history is so rare, thank you!!
It's always a good day when M Laser uploads
Loved the vid and the fact you are diving into a topic facing a perfect storm of written record scarcity and political vendettas.
Cheers from Russia. Thankfully, most... emotionally charged "historians" of my country are currently too busy discussing the Soviet and Imperial period to bother you, and I hope it stays that way for a long time.
Funnily enough it's not the nationalistic historians I am worried about. It's the people that believe the nationalistic historians and want to tell everyone about "the truth" that are very annoying to deal with.
@@lehabelan16 Это не дичь и автор канала не из воздуха взял эти материалы.
@@user-zf2zt7fu9i канешна из Воздуха
@@lehabelan16 ты знаешь какую-то более внятную теорию происхождения славян?
@@lehabelan16 ну во первых "славяне" не значит рабы. Никто не будет использовать такое самоназвание, это глупо. В других славянских языках(к слову более старых чем русский) вообще пишется и произносится как словени\е, то есть люди говорящие на понятном языке(опять же есть часть слова "вене"). Если на латинице это пишется как slav, то это ничего не значит.Moscow это тогда месяцы коровы или что? Под славянами я имел ввиду склавинов и антов которые расселялись по всей Европе, а потом и дальше.Их римляне даже называли спорами. В Европейских городах, до сих пор даже улицы есть с названиями отсылающими к этим племенам, плюс тотемы и поселения. И славяне на сегодня, это этноязыковая общность и если раньше с этим можно было не согласится, то сейчас это глупо, потому как есть генетические тесты и брались выборки. Все славяне генетически схожи,при чем сильно, а следовательно имеют единое происхождение. Как ты объяснишь это?
Excellent. By immigration origins and DNA, I am 1/4 Polish and 1/4 Ukrainian. Although the met in the US, my grandparents' villages were only 100 miles apart and they spoke the same dialect. The Slavic community they settled in and lived their lives was so Slavic that my father who was born there always thought he was born in eastern Europe and would talk about the Old Country as if he had lived there into adult hood. I was not raised deep in the culture found the coal mining hills of West Penn, but my dad did raise us in the Slavic end of town. Between that, and visiting family, I did have a culture to point to. I have found common ground with many people from most of the Slavic countries. There certainly is some very broad geography and nationalities that indicate a Slavic commonality. They all recognize my name and will speak about it and ask questions. This video is the best so far with ancient and more recent history. I look forward to more.
Thank you! Great work, I would love to hear some more!
It is nice to see a Slav who is no stranger to objectivity and common sense. I’m Pole myself and this whole nationalistic-turboslavic shit is making me oikophobic, even though I’ve been concerning myself something of patriot for most of my life
Też mam takie uczucia. Uważam że turbosłowianie są ludźmi upośledzonymi umysłowo...
Lechici podbili pół europy dosiadali majestatycznych raptorów a to że nie ma na to dowodów to spisek
@@Stszelec01 Dobry żarcik :)
Turboslovan je skvelé slovo :D na Slovensku takýmto ľuďom hovoríme ufoslovania
@@Stszelec01 właśnie, czy turbolechici ustalili kanon już? Bo ostatnio jak sprawdzałem to mieli rozłam pomiędzy wojną z Aleksandrem Macedońskim a Atlantydą
Great video! Pozdrowienia z Polski!
P.s. In Poland we read w as v, so it is "Vielbark culture" and "Przevorsk culture".
I know that and when I read polish I do say it like that but I have this problem of reading Slavic words like an English person when I read in English. My brain is incapable of switching to a Slavic pronunciation for one word out of an English sentence. Sometimes it ends up quite bad and I once called my dad Vochtek (Vojtech) on accident :D
Thanks a lot for this great, competent summary of the Slavic-Venetic puzzle!
Super fascinating. Thanks for making this! I learned a lot today.
Amazing video and great graphic! I am a linguist in Leiden and we are right now working on a revisited Baltoslavic etymological dictionary and it's hard for a youtube video to have some new informations for me, but you managed to do it ;)
@The Slavic World of Weles from Navia italy
Discovered this channel during the Project Pannonia and ever since that video you did on Hungary I have been hungrily devouring and awaiting for your next videos. You do an awesome job and I hope you blow up soon.
It's awesome learning about the history of our Eastern European brothers (myself being a mix of Western and Northern European), as most of our European history is centred around the Mediterranean and the West. Many forget that our history is shared across the entire continent, which is just has interesting, violent and amazing, with untold number of mysteries yearning to be discovered!
This is amazingly well done and detailed, i was amazed and watched it many times.
Very nice maps and montage. Great work, thanks a lot.
Very interesting and educational video, thank you for taking time for creating such an amazing piece of work. Greeting from Slovakia !!
Mirko odporucam pozerat ruske videa o slovanoch . A nepocuvat nemceu a anglo saxov. A zacni od Sankritu (India).
@@Padman171probuj aj srbske videa.. povedal Šafarik že je srb staršie ako slovan?😊
Yes we are just white European Mix of Slavic, Germanic, Gothic, Celtic etc . That includes most of Europe and all these languages and identities were created over time but in actuality we are one people , one nation and we should stand as one.
No, slavs are not a mix , south slavs only because have much paleo balkan genes than balto slavic admixture , even south ukrainians are not very slavic, poles are very close geographically to germanics and have nothing germanic , even sorbs from germany have very low germanic and almost pure balto slavic because they mix only with other sorbs ,many peoples of europe in general are not so mixed , many peoples only exagerated that, even etnic russians from north have only litle higher than 10% finnic genes and the rest is balto slavic(balts and slavs have same genes )even estonians have only 34% finnic the rest is balto slavic
@@Andrei-ev7dubut around half of their DNA is also from the pre-Slavic populations living in Eastern Europe too. There were two previous main groups in Europe before the Indo-Europeans came (Hunter-Gatherers and Farmers who came from the Middle East) and so most Europeans are a mix of Indo-European, European Hunter-Gatherer and European Farmer DNA.
I really enjoy your videos. I dont konw many History Channels that go so much into detail. So keep up with your good work:)
Wow! I actually understood all of that! Thanks for the great video!
Just my silly thought, I am of (Italian) Venetian decent, my two best friends are of Polish decent, we are all Veneti
This was very well done, and super informative! Thanks for being so even-handed and weighing different theories, and taking into account the historical context! Excellent!
You get into such details it explains where the channel's name comes from :) Thank you for taking interest in Slavic origins..
The real question, which the answer to would clear everything up, is: did they squat?
No drawings or written records have been found as of yet but we're still looking for the proof.
Yes
@@MLaserHistory houses were too small to stand and there was a lack of chairs - i`ve made my conclusions.
@@sodinc chairs are not optimal, bench is.
@@sodinc Ancient houses weren't actually small, a lot of them were large even by modern standards.
You should really be bigger on TH-cam. There’s very few history channels as in depth and interesting as yours.
This is definitely the best explanation of the origins of the slavs I've seen. Comprehensive, yet not documentary length. Thanks!
Veneti are not slavs
Hello, I'm Czech-American and I really enjoy your videos! I just wonder about the naming of "Veneti" since it applies to different regions of Europe. If the meaning of the word "veneti" has something to do with water then it is understandable how ancient European traders would give this name to people (Vistula Veneti) living along the Vistula River and near the Baltic Sea. The river would be used by those people for trade connections with central Europe, and the Baltic and Scandinavian regions across the Baltic Sea.
However, this "veneti" name is a foreign word applied by outsiders. It reminds me of how, in America, the name "Indians" was applied (by Europeans) to all the various tribes of Native Americans.
Incidentally, my DNA has me at 4% from Baltic states and 90% Czech.
Your video gives me new insight about my DNA from Baltic states! Perhaps some of my forefathers were Veneti traders!
I thought both the explanation and the graphical presentation was really well done! Subscribing
Nobody also seems to mention how the area in Eastern Europe, where proto slavic/veneti/all the others lived is very connected with rivers, and trade existed between peoples in and outside of the area, before eny written record. Its also unreasnoble to think Slavs just sprung out of the earth in the middle of eastern europe, once Goths, Scythians and Huns left. They vouldnt really come from somewhere far away to the north east as they wouldnt possibly have enough numbers to settle and dominate such large porton of europe
Well, I'll put my 5 cents.
First of all not only the germanic peoples called us "Winde" or "Wende". Finnish people did the same. And in finnish "russian" still pronounces as "Vene" and some common family names like "Venelainen" do definitely point to slavic ancestors.
The second moment - it is not true, that slavs didn't name themselves "veneti/venti". We still know about a slavic tribe union called "Vyatich". The ending "-ich" commonly means descendancy or relationship, so the root is "vyat". And we definitely know, that diftongs like "ya" previously sounded like a nasal "en" in eastern slavic languages. Thus "vyatich" is absolutely equal to "ventich". And their descendants still live in a big region from Moscow to Voronezh.
The Peruns axe caught my attention.
In Slovakia, there is a famous folk hero named Juraj Janosik .
He was the leader of a band of highway robbers in the early 1700’s . In the same manner as Ronin Hood, he and his men would rob from rich travellers , keep most of the loot for themselves, but were reputed to help out the poor of that area .( the people in the area were particularly poor, most living in abject poverty ) .
At only 25 years old, he was arrested , tried and executed in a particularly gruesome manner . ( hanged by the scapula from a hook )
He became a legend celebrated in folk songs, poetry, and folk art.
In Slovakia and parts of Poland , he’s as famous as Robin Hood.
He is always depicted carrying an axe called a Valeska , which looks the same as the Perun axe.
I remember in 70 s there was a polish series tv named Janoshik, and his best friend was Pizdra 😊
It's not a perun axe. It's a Wallachian axe from romania. As in, Valaska. From the pastoral Valasi (Wallachians) that herded sheep in Slovak lands.
It’s called valaška
@@MainAcc0
Thanks for the info
In Slovena we have the same kind of folk hero, called Kralj Matjaž.
Ok, so this is weird (and interesting). I very recently started a campaign in Total War: Attila as Venedi, just because someone pointed out to me that they have some interesting faction traits. After I started this campaign I haven't looked up any information about Slavic culture or history.
Now, I've never seen any of your videos before, or your channel at all, and today this shows up in my Recommended videos. One begins to wonder to what degree google is spying on people and how invasive their methods are. I'm not really complaining, it's a good video, and I only noticed it because my Total War campaign is so fresh in my memory and thus the title caught my attention.
I'm glad I watched this. Very informative and nuanced, the type of content that I enjoy the most.
Keep up the good work!
Very interesting, one would think how much the law of large numbers and the human trait of perceiving coincidence could play a role in this rather than Google spying on people but yeah sometimes it really does seem to know exactly what you're thinking.
Glad you enjoyed the video.
@@MLaserHistory He was probably watching some video or reading something avout Venetian faction in Attila so google could catch that.
They are everywhere but they hide it really good.Just google it ;P
Something similar has happenned to me. It happens more frequently now than before.
To this day, this remains one of the best videos on the topic! Thank You @M. Laser History!
Really nice video! Thanks for keeping it factual!
Hope you have fixed the monetarisation problem. You have done a very good job. Thanks for it. You are uncovering such unknown topic for the western world!
I am very impressed with the granularity of your analysis of the early "great migrations." You have shined a light on a very misunderstood period in history. Bravo!
I was once told that the term Veneti was a kind of Latin/early Romance catchall term to refer to peoples who lived around rivers/wetlands/marshes and who's proper name was unknown to the authors. Based on that the location given for the Veneti and or early Slavs would make sense given the numerous rivers in that area, which would also make sense for the area of Veneto and Brittany where the Gallic and Adriatic Veneti are located.
I doubt it honestly, the Adriatic Veneti probably called themselves that, and probably so did the slavic Wends and the Gallic Veneti too. The most likely reconstruction is a correlation with the indoeuropean root "wen-", which carries meanings of love and affection (same root of Venus). These people probably called themselves "the loving" or "the beloved" originally, and they all shared the same linguistic roots.
Lovely, comprehensive, and precise video essay. A significant amount of improvement from your old Slavic video. I would love to see some stuff on the north sea Germanic tribes done in this same fashion! Keep up the great work!
Great video! The Polish word for Germans roughly translates to 'non-speakers', also 'hairy-ones' for Italians. It seems they all just called each other the first thing that came to mind.
Hello Mat, as far as I'm aware of, Włosy doesn't come from hairy ones, that's a mere coincidence, but from the lower German Welschen which referred to the italic tribe called Volcae who resided close to the Germanic tribes
*Walhaz is a reconstructed Proto-Germanic word meaning "Roman", "Romance-speaker", or "Celtic-speaker". The term was used by the ancient Germanic peoples to describe inhabitants of the former Western Roman Empire, who were largely romanised and spoke Latin or Celtic languages (cf. Valland in Old Norse). The adjectival form is attested in Old Norse valskr, meaning "French"; Old High German walhisk, meaning "Romance"; New High German welsch, used in Switzerland and South Tyrol for Romance speakers; Dutch Waals "Walloon"; Old English welisċ, wælisċ, wilisċ, meaning "Romano-British". The forms of these words imply that they are descended from a Proto-Germanic form *walhiska-.[1] It is attested in the Roman Iron Age from an inscription on one of the Tjurkö bracteates, where walhakurne "Roman/Gallic grain" is apparently a kenning for "gold" (referring to the bracteate itself).
*Walhaz is almost certainly derived from the name of the tribe which was known to the Romans as Volcae (in the writings of Julius Caesar) and to the Greeks as Οὐόλκαι / Ouólkai (Strabo and Ptolemy).[2] This tribe occupied territory neighbouring that of the Germanic people and seem to have been referred to by the proto-Germanic name *Walhaz (plural *Walhōz, adjectival form *walhiska-). It is assumed that this term specifically referred to the Celtic Volcae, because application of Grimm's law to that word produces the form *Walh-. Subsequently, this term *Walhōz was applied rather indiscriminately to the southern neighbours of the Germanic people, as evidenced in geographic names such as Walchgau and Walchensee in Bavaria.[1] These southern neighbours, however, were then already completely Romanised. Thus, Germanic speakers generalised this name first to all Celts, and later to all Romans and Romanised peoples. Old High German Walh became Walch in Middle High German, and the adjective OHG walhisk became MHG welsch, e.g. in the 1240 Alexander romance by Rudolf von Ems - resulting in Welsche in Early New High German and modern Swiss German as the exonym for all Romance speakers. For instance, the historical German name for Trentino, the part of Tyrol with a Romance speaking majority, is Welschtirol, and the historical German name for Verona is Welschbern.
Today, welsch is not in usage in German except in Switzerland. This term is used there not only in a historical context, but also as a somewhat pejorative word to describe Swiss speakers of Italian and French.
In Central and Eastern Europe, the word for Romance peoples was borrowed from the Goths (as *walhs) into Proto-Slavic some time before the 7th century.[citation needed] The first source using the word was the writings of Byzantine historian George Kedrenos in the mid-11th century.
From the Slavs the term passed to other peoples, such as the Hungarians (oláh, referring to Vlachs, more specifically Romanians, olasz, referring to Italians), Turks ("Ulahlar") and Byzantines ("Βλάχοι", "Vláhi") and was used for all Latin people of the Balkans.[3]
Over time, the term Vlach (and its different forms) also acquired different meanings. Ottoman Turks in the Balkans commonly used the term to denote native Balkan Christians (possibly due to the cultural link between Christianity and Roman culture),[citation needed] and in parts of the Balkans the term came to denote "shepherd" - from the occupation of many of the Vlachs throughout Central and Eastern Europe.
The Polish words Włoch (pl. Włosi), "Italian", and Włochy, "Italy", and the Slovenian lah, a mildly derogatory word for "Italian", can also be mentioned.
You are right for the first one and I forgive you for the second cos you made me laugh! : )
No the Italian word for the Germans is "Tedeschi" which comes from the same word "Deutsch" which Germans use for themselves and the country is called "Germania" which comes from Latin and roughly means "land of brothers" -germanos means"brother".
@@milfredcummings717 Thanks for this extensive explanation!
😳🙄🥴
What a fantastic video and marvellous piece of work. Big up and instant subscribe
Not many of even professional academics are so precise in anyalysis, carefull in examination of multiple sides of the subject and yet still giving space to "common historical sense". Best videe on the subject I've ever seen, better than half of the books I've red. Respect and immediate sub.
Moc pěkné video. Děkuji a posílám pozdrav na Slovensko.
Great video, very few history channels look at primary sources and even fewer at archaeological evidence!!!!
Interesting video. I think the I.E. connection is the most likely reason for the shared name of the three tribes. The first attestation of 'Veneti' is actually in Homer, I believe, who says that the ἐνετοί inhabited Paphlagonia at the time of the Trojan war. The Trojan legacy has survived in the Veneto region in many forms to this day (e.g. the city of Padua is said to have been founded by Antenor). Linguistically, though, few linguists (outside Slovenian nationalist circles) would argue that ancient Veneto was a Slavic language.
Keep up the great content! Love from Croatia.
Pozz
@@moorhuhn1959 Bok
🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷🇭🇷
in Romanian "venetic" is an old word meaning foreigner, somebody that came from another place. There is a village here called Venetia de Sus (Upper Venice), which makes one laugh...
Love your stuff i pass on to my kids n grands .its so hard to go thru it all n have it make sense..awesome job.thank you n dont stop
Great job seriously! Very informative! Thank you!
Your content is so good. I like the nuances and you summarize really well. From a french canadian, learning about slavic history is super intersting since it is so rare to find content about that.
Trust me I know.
Most of the books about it are either in Eastern European languages or German since the Anglophone world historians don't really deal with Slavic history.
Also a bad Roman habit is calling a province by it's former/first inhabitants. For example in the 7# century nobody spoke Thracian, yet the province was still called Thrace even though the population was Slavic or Turkic-Bulgarian with some Aromanic (Romanian) mixed in. It's quite possible that by the late 5# and early 6# century the population of the area refered to as 'Venetia' was Slavic, while in the 1# century it could have been anything ranging from Germanic to Sarmatian all the way up to Slavic.
Yes, this is very true.
the balkan slavs tried so hard in the early 90's to prove that they were here before God, and that they are the oldest and wisest on the planet, that they even went to war with each other. Anyway, that is all non sence and bullshit, we are all humans, and we should all treat each other eaquily
Quality. Please keep it up. I’m subscribing. Gratitude
Wow! Very impressive study!
The king has returned
Great work.Keep going!
Increadible video! Thank you so much!
You sir are a amazing historian and i absulutely loved every piece of info in this video, thanks.
Nobody
Jordanes: What is slav. Baby don't hurt me. Don't hurt me. No more.
Great video! So informative
Great video - congrats and respect for it! :)
Thank you for mentioning the Lepenski vir theory, that i told you about in your last videos about Slavs.
I shared this in a Quora space with a lot more people, this needs to be shared.
EDIT: I beg you, do make a video about the Peruns Axe because it is something that has been... "bothering" me in a way, because i have no idea if this actually has some kind of a historical base or is it just a "historical forgery"..
I mean a video on the Perun's axe would be quite short.
The only debate about it is whether it was used by only Varangian/Rus' people as small pedants were known to be quite prominent in their culture (like Thor's hammer pedant) or the practice was in fact adopted by Slavs from the Scandinavians, to symbolize Perun who was often times associated with an axe.
I do believe that the various axe pedants found in Eastern Europe where both left behind by the Varangians/Rus' and by the Slavs who adopted it from them for their own god.
@@MLaserHistory Ah excellent, thank you Laser, I cannot express how much i appreciate your work, i myself have tried to sum up early slavic history in Quora, (www.quora.com/What-were-ancient-Slavic-societies-like/answer/Dario-Barbari%C4%87) so i will have to come back to this and reassess if i made any mistakes, because i want it to be as correct as it can be.
I found Quora to be a decent enough space for this, and i had a huge interest in Early Slavic history which brought me to your channel in the first place, and so on Quora i myself have written a ( too long ) answer about a similar question and your work has helped me a great ammount.
I am glad to have helped.
I do agree that Quora does sometimes have some hidden gems when it comes to interesting historical takes but on the other hand I have seen some terrible ones, however, just as with anything on the internet it's a give and take I guess.
@@MLaserHistory Completely agree there.
@@MLaserHistory How the slavs settled on the Balkan peninsula including Pelloponess and in Assia minor and where the native thracians were gone? How the greeks on the Balkans were not slavisade,yust the thracians and the incomming bulgars?
Best slavic history content on youtube, great work!
This was a fascinating and very helpful video
Very interesting. Love your stuff
And there is also a misterious tribe called Vendi from 13 century mentioned in Livonian chronicles as people who got expelled from their place near Ventspils (City at the estuary of the river Venta) and moved to live in a place near Riga and then moving to the place which became known as Venden (Wenden in German) which is a city of Cesis today in Latvia. When Latvia fought for it's independence, we had no known national regalia except the passage from these early chronicles that a local militia from Venden joined the war used a red flag with a white stripe. Up to this day we have no idea who are the these Vendi people. A DNA sequencing could give us a lot of answers, should we ever find a grave that could be identified with Vendi people. Just found in a source that says that Gulf Riga had a name Sinus Veneticus in ancient documents. Although I can't verify it yet. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vends_(Livonia)
Veneticus means new comer in Latin
@M. Laser History You are a legend! Finally a video that goes in details including archaeology, linguistics and historical sources all combined to present us with a full picture of the events and our knowledge of them (as full as it gets in a 20min video). We would love to see more peculiar details you mentioned at the end in a future video.
Great video!
Finally a good introductory overview of the Slavic history.
It's ironic that German nationalist called Slavic people inferior asian race, because on western front in WW1 they were called the Huns :)
"or how we know that some Slavs were at the Hunnic Court...." Now that would be very interesting considering my name and I am 75% Slavic, please make a video on that subject!
Huge thanks! Anyone who’s into history has noticed the name Veneti on different areas of maps and wondered about it. You’re the first person I’ve heard acknowledge it and give a reason. The Indo-European root for ‘water’ makes a lot of sense.
Amazing video, it looks like you you put a lot of great effort to make it, good job
Nice one! 🙂 Greetings from Gdańsk bay/Vistula delta/Venetia. 😀
I think I noticed a little bit pathetic attempt to please the powerful at the expense of the weak: Having spent 20 years in Serbian schools I never read or heard that Serbs claimed to have dwelt since 6000 years in Balkans. I was taught with conservative history textbooks which presented migrational movements pretty much as here. Now, we are aware that Slavs merged with indigenous tribes, some of whom might have resided in the area for millennia. We still don't know where did the descendants of the Vinča culture disappear, but have to acknowledge that some of their symbols are present in the Serbian heraldry. The recent genetic evidence also support that these tribes have merged into the current Serbian nation.
I don't think there is a single, nowadays, migration theory that claims the "native" populations of the areas the migrating peoples came to were completely wiped out or even slightly wiped out. Hence, they had to be assimilated into the new culture, ethnicity. What is mostly debated today is the scale of these migrations and assimilations. What you're talking about follows mostly the Vienna School of thought on the migration period. Which is definetly plausible. What is a problem, and to what I was referring to in the video, is when people use this theories to reach completely outlandish and wrong interpretations. I have had people (in the comment sections, emails, etc.) claiming that the Vinca culture where literally the "Serbs". Basically that whole of European farming peoples came from the "Serbs". These kinds of claims are the problem and don't take into account the social construction of ethnic identity, the sheer scale of human DNA interconnectedness, and the fact that the people who where called Sclaveni (Slavs), that eventually settled in the Balkans, definetly saw themselves as separate, both culturally and ethnically, from the peoples that lived there before them. After all, there's a reason most of the Balkans don't speak Illyrian or Latin anymore.
Which symbols? Source?
@@blackpill7856 I sent you a list of similar symbols, if you visit the sites they are taken from you will see their origin.
@@MLaserHistoryIs there evidence that most people of the Balkans spoke Illyrian or Latin during the Roman Empire?
Great video! Thank you for it.
Fantastic Work 👌
Nice use of Stand Still Stay Silent's Indo-European language tree. I've always really liked it.
I think I liked the Style of this Video more than any other I have Seen dealing with the Origins of Slaws.
Me too.
One the best videos about early slavs origin!
Great video! Thanks!
This video started by clearing up my confusion about why there seemed to be multiple Veneti--and then it just kept getting better! Thank you so much for this very informative video about what we do and do not know!
The Veneti tribes could be connected. The Roman Veneti were conscripted mercenaries (more like slave soldiers) given land to settle in Ravenna to defend against the "Gauls" who sacked Rome anyway. The Celtic Veneti were probably remainder of the defeated Gallic tribe that escaped the Roman armies in 3rd century BC. After Rome fell in 3rd century AD, the Veneti moved from Ravenna to the lagoon nearby and began building the first version of Venice, then the second after Attila.
It's also possible all these Celtic/Gallic/Gothic tribes are all more connected than we think. Publius Tacitus mentioned that Britons conversed easily with Anatolians for over 600 years with almost no alter in dialect. Who knows.
Can you imagine what other ancient scholars were out there, -whose works are lost to us. I'm hoping our modern era can discover other written sources.
Very interesting. Great job.
Nice video like other ones.
Hope to see some video about Baltics at one point, and better sooner than later.
Sir, its always a pleasure to watch your videos, i have one recommendation thou, i live in iran and unfortunately we have literally no book about our ancient nor medival eras.
Or the ones we have are written by greeks or others. I know you have mentioned that the area you study about is mostly about slavs, but can we have a small summary of persia too? Thanks for great content
You dont study ancient persia?
Fascinating video!
Thank you for covering this confusing and mysterious theory in such length
interesting, thanks for good content, bard song was nice touch
"Does it even matter vole?" is fucking great :D
I'm sure the saying goes: "If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and talks like a duck..."
Please, i do not mean to nitpit.
Great work, bro'!!! Very informational.
Thank you, absolutely fascinating!