When you're down for long enough to think "I need a bigger bouyancy aid", you know you've been for a swim. It's happened to me twice, once on the Washburn and once rafting on the Hvita on Iceland (in that case, I was thinking, "It's dark, I don't know which way is up and I really hope that's where this BA is taking me."). It gave me a much better idea of how much less flotation aerated water gives you.
Just a thought from a guy who's run a lot of big water rivers in a canoe in the American West where breaking through large diagonals at the top of the rapid is fairly routine. I would have started further out in the middle of the river above the rapid with the canoe pointed fairly hard towards the right and driven across the river right at the lip with a lot of momentum to get into that eddy behind the diagonal. The speed of the boat moving to the right helps counter the huge tendency for the diagonal to surf the canoe out into the middle.
Absolutely right - and that was my aim. But the water was exceptionally fast and we couldn’t see the wave from above nor was there any mark we could use on the water. By the time I realised I was too far right, I couldn’t get the angle to attack the wave. Yep your analysis is spot on.
I was paddling in that bow seat albeit in the house! Great advice about allowing time. On a few occasions, we have been windblown and sat it out knowing we had factored in this kind of problem.
Really enjoyed hearing these yarns Ray, nice. moral of the story for the first two.... Tandem canoe guiding is hard. Number 3 is just a great story with loads of learning moments, the biggest one being that tandem ww canoeing is hard
Glad you enjoyed them. Yep story number 3 is the one and it nearly was the last one. PS I love tandem canoeing. Rather like I alway watch the pairs figure skating. At its best it is a dance with your partner and the water.
Me too!! There was a brief while when I didn't think I was going to reach air in time. That thought on my BA was very real: and it was while I was still underwater.
The swamped canoe with most of the boat underwater could have avoided that fate had the gear been secured tightly to to bottom of the hull. The gear appears to be tied but floating. Gear is almost always lighter than the equivalent volume of water.
Great video! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. One additional thing I learned here: to also make a plan with your paddling partner of, "what will we do if we miss that line?" To help make sure we have the same contingency plan... If you can see far enough ahead, anyway.
Great video. Thanks for the pointers on reading the river. I'm curious as to why the paddler isn't going to his knees to get a lower centre of gravity rather than sitting on the seat.
He is on his knees, hard to see from the angle of the camera, but keeps pushing higher rather than sink into it hence, 'Keep your bum down'. Thanks for your kind comments.
I enjoyed the analysis. I tend to always think if I did it again it would go better. The communication with the paddling partner is the hardest part. Especially if they try going river left when you were headed river right. Some partners have a way of un-stabilizing the canoe even on flat water.
Good to hear from you Joe. Yep both the first and last swim I could have done better on a second attempt but...... One of the philosophies behind my paddling is to get it right first time. I think that may come from my kayaking days when I was running class 4 and 5 regularly. Some of that you just had to get right first time, scouting, planning and visualisation played a big part. To this say in making moves I like and work hard to get them right first time. But mistakes happen and these swims are the result. Yep on communication. That is why I love paddling with my wife, Lina, at our best in a boat we make it dance. We can preplan but even on the run we work in tune. Anyway keep well my friend and good to hear from you.
Hi ray you canoe legend! Great videos thanks for the upload! From how the bow paddler is paddling he does not seen that confident. Would you do anything differently next time to help make the person have more confidence in the situation?
Many thanks Luke. The problem was that was early in the trip and David had never paddled water like that before. With all the easier rapids later on I encouraged him to make his own decisions and then we would discuss them at the end of the rapid. He made great progress on the later rapids he gained in competence and confidence. He is a great bloke and I enjoyed his company on the trip.
I ended up underwater going down a set of rapids when I was white water rafting. It's really disorientating. I kept my arms around my head kind of like a boxer would to block hits. I had no idea what way was up or down and was spun around until I hit the bottom. I kicked up off the bottom and faceplanted the underside of the raft. I let it slide past until I felt the edge and then threw my arm over and into the raft. I got pulled back in by my guide, who was impressed I'd still got my paddle in the other hand. That was the last time I went white water rafting!
Wow! I am not surprised you don’t want to go again. I am very used to swimming in white water. I used to be a trainer for safety and rescue so spent a good bit of time practicing and training others. The first two swims were easy, in the video, the last one was not. I was lucky to survive. But being under a raft while getting battered by the river bed is not good. That would have intimidated me. Wow
They were not an option from the outfitter. On some of the bigger stuff I have done outfitters have had spraydecks available or as standard. Mind most of the stuff on the Porcupine was pool drop so a swamping was not of any consequence as long as you kept straight. Yep hindsight is good if we use it to shape the future decisions 😁
yep to an extent. David, early on, had a habit of raising his bum from the seat and becoming less stable. So I needed him to keep his weight low and on his knees. But a great effort on his part.
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Yet another great video Ray , thank you 😊
Much appreciated
Excellent footage and learning guide. Well done Ray.
Thank you kindly
Bloody hell. Great post. Glad you made it 👍
You and me both!
Thanks for another educational video.
You are most welcome
just watched your 3 swims video,glad you are okay,your videos are very informative,thanks.
Thank you for your kind comments. Much appreciated.
Fascinating video. Excellent lessons 👉👌
Thank you. Appreciated
When you're down for long enough to think "I need a bigger bouyancy aid", you know you've been for a swim. It's happened to me twice, once on the Washburn and once rafting on the Hvita on Iceland (in that case, I was thinking, "It's dark, I don't know which way is up and I really hope that's where this BA is taking me."). It gave me a much better idea of how much less flotation aerated water gives you.
I think you and I are in complete agreement. Going down to the dark room is not good
Just a thought from a guy who's run a lot of big water rivers in a canoe in the American West where breaking through large diagonals at the top of the rapid is fairly routine. I would have started further out in the middle of the river above the rapid with the canoe pointed fairly hard towards the right and driven across the river right at the lip with a lot of momentum to get into that eddy behind the diagonal. The speed of the boat moving to the right helps counter the huge tendency for the diagonal to surf the canoe out into the middle.
ABC
Absolutely! That was the mistake. Trouble was we couldn’t see the aim point from above as the rapid was so steep.
Absolutely right - and that was my aim. But the water was exceptionally fast and we couldn’t see the wave from above nor was there any mark we could use on the water. By the time I realised I was too far right, I couldn’t get the angle to attack the wave. Yep your analysis is spot on.
as always, great stories and brilliant analysis. Always learning something from you Ray, thanks for sharing. Stay well and atb
Thank you kindly. Glad you are still finding this stuff useful. Keep well.
I was paddling in that bow seat albeit in the house! Great advice about allowing time. On a few occasions, we have been windblown and sat it out knowing we had factored in this kind of problem.
The key is always allowing extra time. Thanks
Awesome video mate. Really interesting. Thanks for sharing!
You are most welcome. Thank you.
Really enjoyed hearing these yarns Ray, nice. moral of the story for the first two.... Tandem canoe guiding is hard. Number 3 is just a great story with loads of learning moments, the biggest one being that tandem ww canoeing is hard
Glad you enjoyed them. Yep story number 3 is the one and it nearly was the last one. PS I love tandem canoeing. Rather like I alway watch the pairs figure skating. At its best it is a dance with your partner and the water.
Very very helpful indeed. Gosh, that crease, what a monster. Glad you were reet.
Me too!! There was a brief while when I didn't think I was going to reach air in time. That thought on my BA was very real: and it was while I was still underwater.
The swamped canoe with most of the boat underwater could have avoided that fate had the gear been secured tightly to to bottom of the hull. The gear appears to be tied but floating. Gear is almost always lighter than the equivalent volume of water.
@@davidedwards2764agreed. Yep a tighter tie down would have been good.
@@RayGoodwinCanoe Yow…Indeed, there’s such a unique and clear quality to the realizations we have when too long underwater….
Great video! Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
One additional thing I learned here: to also make a plan with your paddling partner of, "what will we do if we miss that line?" To help make sure we have the same contingency plan... If you can see far enough ahead, anyway.
Yep absolutely on the plan and contingency. Thanks you for commenting it is appreciated.
Great video. Thanks for the pointers on reading the river. I'm curious as to why the paddler isn't going to his knees to get a lower centre of gravity rather than sitting on the seat.
He is on his knees, hard to see from the angle of the camera, but keeps pushing higher rather than sink into it hence, 'Keep your bum down'. Thanks for your kind comments.
I enjoyed the analysis. I tend to always think if I did it again it would go better. The communication with the paddling partner is the hardest part. Especially if they try going river left when you were headed river right. Some partners have a way of un-stabilizing the canoe even on flat water.
Good to hear from you Joe. Yep both the first and last swim I could have done better on a second attempt but...... One of the philosophies behind my paddling is to get it right first time. I think that may come from my kayaking days when I was running class 4 and 5 regularly. Some of that you just had to get right first time, scouting, planning and visualisation played a big part. To this say in making moves I like and work hard to get them right first time. But mistakes happen and these swims are the result. Yep on communication. That is why I love paddling with my wife, Lina, at our best in a boat we make it dance. We can preplan but even on the run we work in tune. Anyway keep well my friend and good to hear from you.
We had a good level to Ray... I'll have to check what we did there.
It will be interesting
Hi ray you canoe legend!
Great videos thanks for the upload!
From how the bow paddler is paddling he does not seen that confident.
Would you do anything differently next time to help make the person have more confidence in the situation?
Many thanks Luke. The problem was that was early in the trip and David had never paddled water like that before. With all the easier rapids later on I encouraged him to make his own decisions and then we would discuss them at the end of the rapid. He made great progress on the later rapids he gained in competence and confidence. He is a great bloke and I enjoyed his company on the trip.
I ended up underwater going down a set of rapids when I was white water rafting. It's really disorientating. I kept my arms around my head kind of like a boxer would to block hits. I had no idea what way was up or down and was spun around until I hit the bottom. I kicked up off the bottom and faceplanted the underside of the raft. I let it slide past until I felt the edge and then threw my arm over and into the raft. I got pulled back in by my guide, who was impressed I'd still got my paddle in the other hand. That was the last time I went white water rafting!
Wow! I am not surprised you don’t want to go again. I am very used to swimming in white water. I used to be a trainer for safety and rescue so spent a good bit of time practicing and training others. The first two swims were easy, in the video, the last one was not. I was lucky to survive. But being under a raft while getting battered by the river bed is not good. That would have intimidated me. Wow
Your paddle should always be in the water, for a potential brace.
In or on the water.
It so depends on the situation. But it should be doing something
Why no spray decks on this level of water? Hindsight is a great tool.
They were not an option from the outfitter. On some of the bigger stuff I have done outfitters have had spraydecks available or as standard. Mind most of the stuff on the Porcupine was pool drop so a swamping was not of any consequence as long as you kept straight. Yep hindsight is good if we use it to shape the future decisions 😁
Listening to your narration on that last one was terrifying! Thanks for sharing your experience and lessons learned with the world.
Thank you. Yep the last one is a hard one. Glad you found the lessons useful
lol
Indeed. Other than the last one.
From my perspective, “get your ass down” means, on your knees and not on the seat😂
yep to an extent. David, early on, had a habit of raising his bum from the seat and becoming less stable. So I needed him to keep his weight low and on his knees. But a great effort on his part.
@@RayGoodwinCanoe - okay, that makes more sense; it is a little difficult to get all the way down in the bow.
However, what a great trip!
@@michaelthelastwarrior one of the best