Did USS Atlantas dog survive the first night battle? Also, were animals on ships more likely to die or survive, when the ships went down? Would crewmen try to save them or ignore them, when they abandoned ship?
Why were the Atlanta class cruisers used in ship-to-ship combat instead of in their proper role as AA defense? Was it the same/similar reasoning the British used when they mismanaged their Battle Cruisers in WW1?
Admiral Lee was my great uncle. The family called him Bogie; not sure why. He was committed to gunnery practice, for all hands on all the ships he commanded as often as possible. When radar made its debut in the American navy--Thank You Britain!--he studied it and eventually used it to great effect. My father, when he was a "buck" ensign in the cruiser Concord commanded by then Capt. Lee, practiced and practiced, and then some, gunnery, Captain Lee's orders. All this practice, which sounds boring, made his crew experts and more likely to survive. Thanks Drachinifel. I've waited a long time for his achievements to be recognized. By the way, he brought home 5 gold medals from the '20 Olympics, not 4. If you're ready for an adventure go to the Kentucky Historical Society's museum in Frankfort. It has his shooting medals among other things.
Your great uncle has been one of my personal heroes for over 50 years. He was an incredible professional naval officer. A master at his craft. He had more guts than most people ever could imagine. You have every right to be proud of your heritage and pass it down. My son that is 38 years old learned very young about your great uncle. He was taught by me.
@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer Thanks for for teaching your son well! And I'm glad that Uncle Bogie has been one of your personal heroes. I wish I had known him. So many questions I could have asked.
@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer Because he was very interested in the Far East, and in China in particular, and because his surname Lee was common in China, his classmates at Annapolis called him "Chink" Lee. That evolved into "Ching" Lee. Story has it that he went to a Chinese-owned laundry when he was a Midshipman and asked the owner how to spell WA (Willis Augustus) Lee in Chinese. The owner provided him with the Chinese version of Wa Lee, which Lee used as a signature under his drawings in the Lucky Bag, the Naval Academy's yearbook. Not only could Lee shoot, he could draw.
Some fun facts of Admiral Willis Ching Lee: 1. He was a distant relative of the confederate general Robert E. Lee 2. He got his nickname "Ching" from his fondness for the Far East and his Chinese-sounding last name 3. Lee adopted two Korean children in Vietnam after the children's family requested that Lee take the children to the United States 4. After Guadalcanal he took control of the renowned Battleship Div 7, which had become the fast battleship attachment to the famous fast carrier task force (TF38/58). He took the Iowa as his flagship My favorite naval commander of all time. What a legend.
@@jonathanhill4892 he didn’t want to live in a world where no more american battleships would be built so he could continue to style on foreign navies with his expert gunnery
For some reason, the savage kicking Washington dished out against Kirishima just puts a smile on my face. Also I genuinely laughed out-loud at Jingles' "Hello, Its MEEEE"
@@ramal5708 he also didn't out right dismiss radar the way Callahan did and like you said was more cautious and discipline in his formation, think experience would have refined things. Esperance proved he wasn't a complete fail.
My grandfather served on the USS Washington through the duration of the war. Served in the super firing turret crew, now I know why he said his ship had the best gunnery crew in the Pacific.
It's amazing that Admiral Lees flagship didn't sink under the weight of those big balls he was carrying and speaks volumes about American shipbuilding abilities.
Very underrated Admiral. Any senior officer who understands just what gunnery skills are actually needed then enforcing it - well, a refreshing change from some of the other "career" officers that seem to have gotten promoted probably due to either age or contacts only.
Actually he was well respected in the US Navy at the time and current history remembers him well. He really was a total gunnery master and like the video says knew the battleship systems better than its operators and designers from time spent at the bureau of ordinance.
Lee did get to take the role as the commander of the fast battleship squadron in the Pacific in 1944. It is just unfortunate for him and the USN that his naval career was curtailed suddenly by dying barely a week or so after Japan surrendered.
@@ZJ517 IKR! I did a research paper on him in high school and before I started everybody was like “who the hell was he?” but when I got finished everyone was like “what a total badass!” Before he died on his ferry trip to USS Wyoming I thought he was going to be given command of the Atlantic fleet which the USS New Jersey would’ve been his flagship. I don’t know if that information is 100% correct. He was a heavy smoker and smoking 2-3 packs of cigarettes can be deadly.
The only complaint I have is when torpedoes are launched. I don't know if it's my computer or my eyes but I can barely see them when Drach mentions them.
@@Paludion oh wait no. I thought you meant the last video. I read the comment before the torpedo launches on this episode. Anyway, this episode's torps were invisible to me too. Sorry. I think they didn’t want to animate 34 torps and the dodging maneuvers.
It's because the United States Navy has not been in a serious naval war since 1898 and the Imperial Japanese Navy hasn't been in one either since 1905. For all their naval traditions, the generation that was actually manning the ships and fighting was practically doing it for the first time.
It is my observation that this is often the case in warfare. Militaries train and train for expected conditions, then almost always find themselves fighting in unexpected conditions, which often makes the men fighting seem incompetent. That is simply the nature of warfare. Think about it like this. The commanders spend their adult lives getting ready to fight a war, then when they finally get the chance, there is confusion, the fog of war. Rarely is the right man for the job in the right place at the right time. In this battle, thankfully, Rear Admiral Lee was there. At Trafalgar, Nelson was there. Such perfect matches of the right commander at the right time rarely happen.
Much credit to Admiral Lee for being the strongest advocate in the USN for radar deployment, training, and usage for the frontline units. This was evident in the performance of radar-assisted gunnery of subsequent units deployed in the Pacific. His performance at Guadalcanal was also a significant factor in his promotions to Commander, Task Force Thirty-Four and Commander, Battleships, Pacific. He drew recommendations and praise from Admirals King, Nimitz, and Halsey, and is considered by some naval historians as the Halsey of surface warfare. One can only wonder how a hypothetical Battle of San Bernardino Strait would have turned out had TF34 been left on station off of San Bernardino Strait during the Battle of Leyte Gulf, rather than going north with Halsey.
IMO, it would have been devastating to the Japanese. Lee would have hidden his ships in the fog and hammered away. Once the Japanese BBs were Swiss cheese he would have closed in for the kill.
I recall reading that Lee had hoped for the chance, and that he'd have loved to have been left at San Bernadino with three or four of his battleships, just waiting to fire full broadsides into Kurita's teeth. Even Yamato would've been heavily damaged, and Nagato and the Kongos would've been torn apart much like Kirishima was at Guadalcanal.
Thank you for this video. My father was aboard USS Washington during this engagement. He was a radio-gunner on the Kingfisher float planes the ship carried. He didn't talk about his experiences but recounted once that he was on the rear deck during the battle and moved behind the 16" turret when things got exciting (maybe a sea story).
Heartfelt thanks from my family to yours. You see, my father was one of the Navy Seabees in tents/foxholes at Henderson Field. One of his main jobs was to fill in the bomb craters on the runway after a Japanese attack. If the IJN had been able to deliver their intended bombardment of Henderson Field, the chances of me being born in 1947 would have been, as they say, slim to none.
Funny thing is I served 8 years in the U.S. Navy, but back in those days I wasn't interested in Naval history. Now I'm out of the Navy, I'm interested in the history.
I may get torched for saying this but History Channel’s Enterprise 360 got me interested and wanting more. I’m so glad I found Drachinifel! I ate up Drachs content hook, line, and sinker. I can’t get enough now!
My Father served on the BB56 Washington thru-out the war. He was a gunner, 20mm, and tasked with taking out enemy aircraft. 2 facts (?) that I have read about the Washington. 10 They never lost a soul to enemy fire. 2) The Washington was the only battleship to directly sink an enemy battleship. Very proud of my father's service, as well as all who defend the US.
Far as I can recall, across both world wars Washington was the only battleship ever to claim a solo kill on another battleship, and Kirishima was the only battleship to be sunk solely by battleship gunfire. It was a singular engagement.
@@eriksunden4704 Like Drach keeps reiterating, they were still very much battlecruisers despite having had "dIs iZ a FaST bAtTLeshIp" crudely spraypainted on their hulls.
Doubt most BBs short of a Yamato would have fared much better with such a rapid unanswered 16" hit total and a Yamato very well could have sent the hit total upwards being a much larger target. What a Yamato could have had then done to Washington in the dark in this case is an open question assuming her fire control was intact. Not saying a Yamato would have been sunk but she very well could have been mission killed and out of the war for a while at the very least.
They were constructed pre WWI as battle cruisers, but up armored in a modernization in the interwar period, so they were in effect, battleships or close. But armor for a 14 inch gun ship were typically designed to defeat 14 inch shells, so they were not going to defeat 16 inch shells, and especially at close range.
After being somewhat obsessed with naval history for most of my 50+ years, I have become accustomed to the fact that after one has absorbed a certain amount of information, the discovery of something new becomes fewer and farther between. At least something new that is fascinating or exciting. Not that anyone can know everything, but one becomes familiar enough with the subject that it is most common to find oneself revisiting well trodden (by oneself and others) ground. Between this video, and the one about Lee himself I watched immediately prior, I have been treated to many fascinating tidbits of info about Admiral Lee, USS Washington, U.S. battleships in general, and the 2nd Savo action. You also clarified a number of things, and answered several questions that I personally have never seen addressed before. Thank you Mr. Drach! Your refreshing and well made videos make naval history as interesting and rewarding as when I first discovered it! Bravo, maestro!
@@FirstDagger Keep in mind. He won them with different team mates. Lee was also a skilled sport shooter, and won seven medals in the 1920 Olympics shooting events, tied with teammate Lloyd Spooner for the most anyone had ever received in a single games. Their record stood for 60 years. He was the most successful athlete at the 1920 Lee participated in 14 events at the 1920 Summer Olympics in Antwerp. He won 7 medals (5 gold, 1 silver, and 1 bronze), all in team events.[5] His teammates for the various events were Dennis Fenton, Lawrence Nuesslein, Arthur Rothrock, Oliver Schriver, Morris Fisher, Carl Osburn, Lloyd Spooner, and Joseph Jackson.
Last night while playing World of Warships, I mentioned I was listening to you while playing. Opposing player stated he used your videos as white noise to fall asleep to. You were popular last night and well known.
Just an FYI . The former Destroyer USS Sulivans now on exhibit at the Buffalo NY naval park is sinking and is in need of help. Pass this message around please. Your doing a great job Drac, keep it up!
”Oh look, it’s a tunnel-vision’ing battleship giving flat broadside to xX_Ching_Lee_Xx and his 16” guns? Say it with me kids... That’s a paddlin’!” - Mighty Jingles, probably
Tier 5 battleship vs tier 8 battleship, with the tier 5 at 5km and giving flat broadside and focusing on something else. That's definitely a paddlin'. Sounds like it was almost a devstrike too, since they had to flood the magazine..
An interesting book for this battle is "Battleship at War: The Epic Story of the USS Washington"by Ivan Musicant. It is far more derogatory about the South Dakota's electrical problems, saying that many of them occurred because the breakers were tied down before the battle actually started, although this information was apparently from a sailor aboard the Washington, and the crews apparently were not on the best of terms. It also has a different (more colorful and far less PC) version of Lee's message to the Cactus navy PT Boats that occurred when radio operators aboard Washington picked up some frightening talk between three nearby torpedo boats regarding Lee’s two battleships: “There go two big ones, but I don’t know whose they are!”. Lee, who had been friends with General Vandergrift since their days at Annapolis radioed information he knew Vandegrift would recognize, Lee's nickname: "This is Ching Chong China Lee, refer your big boss about Ching Lee. Call off your boys!". There is another version of this that was reported "“Refer your big boss about Ching Lee; Chinese, catchee? Call off your boys!”.
The other part of this exchange is that the pt boats were listening to Lee talking to Guadalcanal main CP. When Lee starts saying I am friendly one of the boats skippers is heard to say "he's a phony let's slip the bum a pickle". This is when Lee got angry and told Guadalcanal to " call of their boys".
Adm Lee's actual nickname was " Ching Chong" of which he was secretly very proud of as most senior officers were with theirs " Bull" Halsey was another, "Howling Mad" Howland Smith USMC yet another, its a quirk of anglo saxon humour that its a rite of passage even Wellington in 1810 was known as " Conky Atty" or Arthur Bignose" for obvious reason he once promoted a voluble Irish soldier to corporal for ably defending his illicit foraging a chicken and eggs from the Spanish peasantry.
One thing I've noticed that may be incorrect is the direction the ships are traveling shown in this video. Washington and South Dakota were headed west and Kirishima was on an eastern track, headed in opposite directions.
I greatly appreciate the inclusion of "tokens on the board" as it were. It really does help you understand the battle a lot better than trying to figure out where a ship was supposed to be by pure voice description or at best a chart with lines that say a ship was somewhere over here at 12:00 and there at 14:00, and work out where they would be at 12:30 in relation to other ships plotted somewhere on a line when you're talking about the action at 12:30. Also, hey look, the first US Admiral that appreciates radar is the first one to win a night surface engagement, who'da thunk it?
Japanese fleet: We are here to destroy the airfield. Alright we have basically won the battle, lets head home. What about bombarding the airfield? Say what?
Yep, that's the IJN in a nutshell. After contact with the enemy, withdrawal. This was a case where they really should have bombarded Henderson some more, or at least tried to. Mind you, I'm glad they didn't.
@@therealuncleowen2588 Pretty much seems like the higher ups planned that way throughout the war until it transitioned to leaving soldiers on islands to die in hopeless battles and kamakazis anyway.
I don't usually go for "What If?" scenarios, but here's one: _What If_ Halsey had decided to commit the battleships before the _First_ Naval Battle of Guadalcanal? I believe Lee was senior to Callaghan by a couple of months, so imagine that fight but with the US force not only significantly beefed up but led by an Admiral who really, properly understood how to use radar. And guns.
Now, that's a scenario that would be most interesting to play out. I could see it now. Keep the 2 battleships but have them holding way back behind the line in a broadside formation and then cruiser's up front blocking the whole channel with destroyers as the vanguard to engage in a hit and run tactic. This would draw the enemy in thinking they are chasing a smaller and lighter armed force and then they run smack dab into the cruiser line who have been tracking the enemy via radar and have their guns aimed and ready to fire. Then all at once all the cruisers send a broadside into their respective targets. In the chaos the 2 battleships would let loose broadsides with their guns at the bigger targets. While the wall of flames are pouring from the battle lines the destroyers would bracket the enemy on their port and starboard sides with torpedoes. Making the ships under the fire storm pay dearly for trying to escape the shells heading for them or trying to get into a better firing position. I think this would be a scenario that would indeed be likely, albeit best case and not likely to play out that well. But seeing as how the enemy frequently fixated on their targets its very much possible to have happened.
Although the largest issue is command an control in a night battle. It’s likely that things would have gone far better for the USN sense it’s a mirror match but the USN heavy units are more powerful. I do feel like it wouldn’t be a stomp however
I think that the inexperience the US Navy suffered from at that earlier stage might've wound up with the battleships taking torpedo hits and possibly being lost.
@@RCAvhstape We're talking about the battleships showing up in Ironbottom Sound literally *two days* earlier than they did. Are you suggesting that USS _Washington_ and USS _South Dakota_ gained massive amounts of experience in defeating IJN torpedoes in that time?
@Doctor Detroit that last statement depends on your understanding of modern battleships vs WW1-post WW1 era battleships since both different in various ways. Modern BBs do have better armor schemes and AA batteries not to mention upgraded technology. So if we do base it off of this it could be a much better fight comparatively to that of planes.
The US was in the odd position of winning even when they lost, as the Japanese couldn't sink ships or shoot down planes faster then the US was able to build them.
This is the difference between a "strategic defeat" and a "temporary setback". Can also be part of the definition of a "Pyrrhic victory". Mind you, there are *so* many what-ifs in this campaign. So many moments when the commander on the scene, on *either* side, failed to properly take advantage of the situation presented to him. The repeated failures to use intelligence provided by radar sets, in particular. And even when the Japanese "won" tactically, they often failed to then continue with their original mission, thereby taking damage for no tangible advantage.
The Japanese Navy also seemed singularly capable of failing to follow up, thereby turning a clear tactical victory into a strategic draw if not a defeat
@@austinlange7210 I feel like their decision to fight night engagements was a positive and a negative. It gave them a tactical advantage, but robbed them of seeing the full battlefield well enough to press home their advantage.
The absolute desperation of fighting on both sides in this campaign hasn't (until this video series, including the operations room one), really been captured IMO. This has been fantastic. Thank you Drach for showing something so profoundly moving.
Absolutely fantastic video as always Drach. Also to paraphrase Jingles...."Surprise buttsex is never a good thing, especially not when its a battleship doing the surprising"
Thank you Drachinifel for the work in this. To the other history gee--- er buff here, I recommend the link above to Lundgren's articles at Naval Weapons (at least for those few of you who have not discovered that site. Add a recommendation for an episode on the USS Massachusetts' action off N.Africa. (Edited to properly spell Robert Lundgren's name. And seplcherkr says it should be Grendel)
Drachs battle presentations are so concise and vivid. As a longtime listener of Naval lectures I can say truly, that his are among the best. Can not wait for his take on Halsey's typhoon.
This is a great day for me. I thought I knew lots about WW2. But before today, I had never heard of Admiral Lee. Drach, thank you for teaching me about "Ching" Lee. He makes me very proud to be American.
Great series. I have sailed as a RD through the SLOT on a training exercise in 1971, not appreciating the history as I do now. I am humbled by the sacrifices made by my fellow tincan sailors.
@Drachinifel One of the main problems that caused the electrical failure aboard SoDak is actually a fairly minute detail in the electrical systems construction. SoDak, for some odd reason, at this time was using time relays, which, in this large of an electrical load, was protected by essentially a chain of capacitors and resistors linked in series. It worked well enough, but was prone to shorting if parts of the system went down for too long. I believe it was switchboard no. 4 that, as a result of the gun blast that momentarily tripped the aft breakers, experienced a short so catastrophic it soldered the ends of the relay together which produced an even worse chain reaction causing the ship-wide power failure. The generators kept trying to send power to the time relays in the switchboards, which were shorting out now because the capacitors were reaching their limits and simply just starting to explode. Thankfully, power was restored in approximately 3 minutes, but as you said, the time relays continued to fail due to the shorts present and SoDak withdrew. The problem was fixed rather quickly and easily. The time relays were simply swapped out for PQ type relays, which had *much* better protection against circuit tripping and shorts. Why these weren't used in the original construction is beyond me. The PQ type relay had certainly been around for a little while now, so its odd to see that it wasn't used in a battleship over a system that is prone to greater failure and has less safeguards.
You gotta be kidding me... talk about a quote larger than life...sounds like something Picard or Ryker would say in a Star Trek TNG episode/movie! Lee was truly an amazing leader who somehow goes unnoticed when he should have been the template for anyone in command of a gun of any caliber. Sorry Drach, almost forgot to say I was salivating with anticipation for this video and it easily exceeded my expectations! Thanks for your dedication to topics I’ve been obsessed with for 40 years and still showing me something new!
Simply put, there is no television program or movie I have been anticipating more than this particular series! I know that's probably a sad statement but there it is:-)
@@westcoaststacker569 I stopped watching broadcast TV about 19 years ago. The shows that were showing up for broadcast just bored me to tears and were stupid. They continue to do both.
I read a comprehensive book on the Guadalcanal campaign whilst sailing in the Solomon Islands. Started reading it in Honiara and visited Red beach and the US war memorial that looks over the Galloping horse hill. Also went on to Edson's Ridge and saw where the Japanese attacked, there are still remains of the fox-holes there and local kids showed us spent cases and shrapnel they had found. Henderson Field is the main airport now. Went there too. I was lucky to be able to read about Iron Bottom Sound while anchored on its edge, by Honiara and to read the Battle of Savo Island whilst I could look over my shoulder and see it a few miles away. We also anchored at Tulagi, where the Japanese torpedo boats were based before the US captured the island. Some divers said our anchor chain was lying over an American Jeep. Reading about the campaign whilst sitting in the middle of it made a great impression on me. Really good to be able to see where it all happened. Edit: As a footnote we were there when the US was having it's Remembrance Day at the yacht club(?) and my dad and I had gone in to do our dobe (washing clothes) in buckets whilst all these top brass, two admirals and captains of the ships in port, etc in their whites were doing their thing. A female lieutenant came around the corner and stared at us and I uttered my immortal line. "We're British and just washing our clothes". She went away, as was proper. Shortly after I tried to use the shower in the facility and was swearing at the thing for not working when I heard the door open and heard one US Navy officer rant at another for not getting the Admiral's honour guard correct and his security detail was shit, etc. This went on for a bit, he was really balling the other guy out and I'm naked trying not to even breath too loudly incase they hear me, looking at my shorts but not wanting to move. If they had burst in I'd have fallen back on ; "The name's Bond.." Security was shit, though. I mean, we came ashore at the site, in a dinghy, from a yacht, with big bags and no-one checked a thing. I have pictures but not sure how to add them to a reply.
If you were anchored at Tulagi you would have been above the HMNzS Moa which was sunk by the Japanese airforce using a 250kg bomb which exploded below deck and the ship sinking in 4 minutes. 5 NZ sailors were killed my uncle being one of them. Members of our family attended a memorial service (75th aniversay ) on 7 April 2018 which was part of the NZ Navy memorial.
Note that, with the loss of Kinugasa on the 14th, all ships of Cruiser Division 8 (veterans of Savo Island) have been crippled or sunk: Kako torpedoed just short of its base in August, Furutaka sunk and Aoba crippled at Cape Esperance in October, and Kinugasa in November. Chokai (Mikawa's flagship in August) would continue much longer, of course, being sunk off Samar in October 1944.
Thanks for such an informative post! You are far and away the best presenter of all things naval. From ship classes to engagements such as this, I always enjoy your posts and look forward to the next. Thanks again!
Yeah stress of the war, a lot of Admirals in the Pacific fleet seem to have died off in the immediate decade afterwards. Mitscher, McCain, Lee to name a few.
at 24:00 that land based artillery included my young father in law Pfc Salvatore Ferrara from the bronx,ny. Battery K 247th field artillery.which supported Vandergrifts marines and quite left off the TOT.He would receive a bronze start and a PUC for his efforts. Including a lifetime of malaria and PTSD from the huge guns shelling each night. years later i would find a newspaper for a baseball game that included "bat juggling" by "sparrow". He would keep that nickname and the love and admiration of his family all his life.
26:08. Also by December, USS Saratoga would return and Admiral King (to in his mind eternal shame) borrowed HMS Victorious (USS Robin) from the Royal Navy at the start of 1943.
@@Dynasty0612 It's explained somewhere in discord chat logs and I'm not sure I or Drachinifel should mention it here in the comments. As for Jingles, who else would you choose to narrate an admiral delivering both a paddling and a dose of surprise buttsex?
Once again, fine content. As someone who studied military history from a early age, then locking onto WW2 studying the Pacific battles once I was a US Marine, this channel has been a great source of information. Thanks again Drachinifel for making history interesting. I finally decided to take the plunge and become a patron. It will be worth every penny.
Load it with blue dot and you can set them on fire from the flash as well. I almost wonder what psychological effect a 16" dragon's breath shell would have.
@@robertslugg8361 Well, the Japanese made the Type 3 AA shell for battleship guns which rather amounts to the same thing. Reportedly scary the first time or two you see it from an airplane until you realize that it's basically harmless unless you are exceedingly unlucky.
Admiral Lee knew what the hell he was doing and deserved the Medal of Honor for this action alone, but received a Navy Cross instead. I suppose if he'd been killed during the engagement, the Navy would have insisted on the higher award. I doubt it mattered to Lee. He won the day and changed the course of the war in this part of the Pacific. Yet for some reason all the stories we read and hear are about Callaghan and Scott, two admirals who are best remembered for their failures around Guadalcanal. I am curious to know why the South Dakota had so many electrical problems during this latest fight when Washington did not. I know they were different class ships but they were built during the same time period.
Excellent job! I just finished Neptune's Inferno that focuses on this campaign and I highly recommend it for anyone wanting a deeper understanding of this campaign.
Fantastic stuff Drach and also serious kudos to the contributors who helped with the annotations to make it a clearer picture. Plus the excellent Jingles Cameo. P.s. who else thinks Admiral Lee should become a special commander in World of Warships with an expertise in gunnery!!
Well done. The graphic representations are accurate and without superfluous images of British, German or other uninvolved ships and aircraft as many others have done.
I have been waiting for this for a while. I have read up on rear Admiral Lee and he was certainly the right person in the right place at the right time. Thanks so much for this well-narrated and animated naval documentary.
As much as I thought I knew about Guadalcanal every time I listen to your post I learn more than I knew...excellent...I seriously wish you would do the same thing for the US Submarine warfare in the Pacific, now thats a series that could go on for months
I'd like to thank you and the Operations Room for covering the dual night actions in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. These two videos were eminently more understandable and enjoyable than the chapter in Samuel Elliott Morrison's work "The Struggle for Guadalcanal" and what passes for documentaries on the History Channel and Military Channel. The conventional story of World War II in the Pacific largely ignores Guadalcanal and the knockout drawn out fight between the Americans and Japanese in 1942. America's victory is generally written off as being to you to more and better material starting in 1943. the fact that the American and Japanese navies battered each other to ruin in 1942 with the United States walking away with more and better trained sailors and aircrew is ignored. Regarding the battle itself, I still considered a miracle that USS South Dakota was not sent to the bottom with a half dozen torpedo hits. I knew coming in that Admiral Lee had commanded the first American battleship on battleship battles since the Spanish-American War. I was not aware of his prowess at the Olympics.
Unfortunately, there were no "battleship on battleship" actions in the Span-Am War. PELAYO was headed for the Far East, but did not make it to the Suez Canal, before Spain decided to give it up.
You really missed the opportunity for another poignant Jingles quote in regards to Kirishima: "Sailing broadside on to a battleship? That's a paddlin'.." XD
@@0ld.Richard cruisers and battlecruisers facing full on battleships however, are not. Also, it was a sarcastic joke, not an actual comment on actual tactics...
@@0ld.Richard It makes sense in WoWs, since range is given and lead is hard to calculate, versus real life where lead isn't so bad, but range is more unknown.
@@0ld.Richard Depends on whose idea of a battleship you're talking about. The French all-forward-main-armament battleships were supposed to fight bow on to the enemy or at an angle as they were intended to pursue and run down enemy battleships. (Mind, whether or not this was a *good* idea is another discussion entirely...)
@@SonsOfLorgar Especially this - this battle showed why it's a generally bad idea to go up against a battleship with a a battlecruiser. Not even an upgraded battlecruiser with a "I'm a battleship, really" gigantic P-Touch label stuck to each side of the ship. South Dakota was hit with considerably more tonnage of munitions than Kirishima but managed to drive away in the end, thus demonstrating the worth of battleship armor. Washington proved the converse - that giving battle to a functional battleship with a battlecruiser at a distance that the battlecruiser's superior speed does it no good is an incredibly, horrifically bad idea. Graphically demonstrated to everyone as Washington promptly expressed its extreme displeasure with the Japanese Navy and Admiral Kondo by brutally executing Kirishima and dancing away into the darkness laughing maniacally. I suspect one factor in Admiral Kondo's decision to retire from the field instead of pressing on to shell Henderson Field was the fact that the Washington, having sunk the most powerful unit in his squadron in extremely short order from the darkness, and once located having danced around every torpedo his people had thrown at it in a way battleships weren't supposed to be able to do had disappeared back into the darkness. It had just proven that it could obliterate Kirishima in just a few minutes of fire and disappear - and nothing he had left was as powerful or well armored as Kirishima. And he had *no* idea where it had gone or what it was doing.
this past summer i visted the USS North carolina and the USS Alabama...both of these ships were very impressive, however the Alabama, which is moored in Mobile, al was in a sort of way significant, ill explain why in a moment. Both ships are massive in size, of course the big naval guns stand out, and when i watch these videos, i couldnt imagine being on the angry side of them. As for the Alabama, when you leave her and get back on the road, you can see her as she is facing you from the highway!...all 6 of her 14 inch main guns pointing at you as you leave, awesome, awesome sight
Pinned post for Q&A :)
What happen if Us manage to finish building Uss Montana?
How long does it take to make and edit these videos?
Did USS Atlantas dog survive the first night battle?
Also, were animals on ships more likely to die or survive, when the ships went down? Would crewmen try to save them or ignore them, when they abandoned ship?
Why were the Atlanta class cruisers used in ship-to-ship combat instead of in their proper role as AA defense? Was it the same/similar reasoning the British used when they mismanaged their Battle Cruisers in WW1?
@@fabianzimmermann5495 I would risk my life for a dog
Admiral Lee was my great uncle. The family called him Bogie; not sure why. He was committed to gunnery practice, for all hands on all the ships he commanded as often as possible. When radar made its debut in the American navy--Thank You Britain!--he studied it and eventually used it to great effect. My father, when he was a "buck" ensign in the cruiser Concord commanded by then Capt. Lee, practiced and practiced, and then some, gunnery, Captain Lee's orders. All this practice, which sounds boring, made his crew experts and more likely to survive. Thanks Drachinifel. I've waited a long time for his achievements to be recognized. By the way, he brought home 5 gold medals from the '20 Olympics, not 4. If you're ready for an adventure go to the Kentucky Historical Society's museum in Frankfort. It has his shooting medals among other things.
Wow...
Your great uncle has been one of my personal heroes for over 50 years. He was an incredible professional naval officer. A master at his craft. He had more guts than most people ever could imagine. You have every right to be proud of your heritage and pass it down. My son that is 38 years old learned very young about your great uncle. He was taught by me.
By the way I've always been curious where did he pick up the nickname Ching
@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer Thanks for for teaching your son well! And I'm glad that Uncle Bogie has been one of your personal heroes. I wish I had known him. So many questions I could have asked.
@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer Because he was very interested in the Far East, and in China in particular, and because his surname Lee was common in China, his classmates at Annapolis called him "Chink" Lee. That evolved into "Ching" Lee. Story has it that he went to a Chinese-owned laundry when he was a Midshipman and asked the owner how to spell WA (Willis Augustus) Lee in Chinese. The owner provided him with the Chinese version of Wa Lee, which Lee used as a signature under his drawings in the Lucky Bag, the Naval Academy's yearbook. Not only could Lee shoot, he could draw.
Some fun facts of Admiral Willis Ching Lee:
1. He was a distant relative of the confederate general Robert E. Lee
2. He got his nickname "Ching" from his fondness for the Far East and his Chinese-sounding last name
3. Lee adopted two Korean children in Vietnam after the children's family requested that Lee take the children to the United States
4. After Guadalcanal he took control of the renowned Battleship Div 7, which had become the fast battleship attachment to the famous fast carrier task force (TF38/58). He took the Iowa as his flagship
My favorite naval commander of all time. What a legend.
And sadly he died of a heart attack in August 1945, just 10 days after the Japanese surrender. RIP.
@@jonathanhill4892 he didn’t want to live in a world where no more american battleships would be built so he could continue to style on foreign navies with his expert gunnery
good thing he lived in the 40's and not the 2000's...otherwise having any kind of relation to Robert E. Lee would have gotten the guy canceled.
@@mr.s2005 what? Why?
He had several flagships including Iowa and North Carolina I believe, but Washington was his favorite.
Rear Admiral Lee: *Stand aside, I am coming through. This is Ching Lee*
What a badass
Just a fucking badass guy.
Yet again another example of the resolve that Yamamoto evoked from the U.S. Navy after Pearl Harbor.
"I got this."
- Man who carries his entire team
From northern Kentucky
This is right up there with Nuts!
For some reason, the savage kicking Washington dished out against Kirishima just puts a smile on my face. Also I genuinely laughed out-loud at Jingles' "Hello, Its MEEEE"
Jingles does admit to taking a liking to Kancolle's Kirishima tho :)
That was an epic paddlin'
@@Foxbat2929 oh god. There’s also a lot of people who ship (pun intended) Washington and Kirishima.
@@ph89787 It's a classic tale of belligerent sexual tension.
@@ph89787 Well, Enemies to Lovers is a popular story line sooooo
I have a constant mental image now.
Everytime admiral Lee is put in charge of a ship, you can see the message "+20 Accuracy" appear above it.
He had the Dead Eye skill
@@gianmarcodacol141 A fellow WoWS player!
A Jingles cameo in a segment talking about the IJN misidentifying two battleships as cruisers can't be a coincidence can it
No more thanthe paddling served by the Washington ;)
@@SonsOfLorgar ahh the good old days of +3 matchmaking:)
Nope
@@Foxbat2929 or the days of the +5 scout MM on tanks :D
wait i missed that is there a timestamp?
All those destroyer sailors floating in the water "GIVEM HELL WASHINGTON!" Man that's a strong feeling.
So this is what happens when the Americans put someone who knows what the hell they’re doing in command.
Well, they were approaching the point where all the incompetents in the area had already been weeded out.
To be fair after Esperance think Admiral Scott would have had a better outing rather than being killed by his superior if he had be in charge.
It's good to have a gun, but it's better still to have someone who can aim that gun.
@@ramal5708 he also didn't out right dismiss radar the way Callahan did and like you said was more cautious and discipline in his formation, think experience would have refined things. Esperance proved he wasn't a complete fail.
@@GaldirEonai XD. Sometimes (or maybe almost always) you just gotta wait for enough of the incompetents to die off...
My grandfather served on the USS Washington through the duration of the war. Served in the super firing turret crew, now I know why he said his ship had the best gunnery crew in the Pacific.
It's amazing that Admiral Lees flagship didn't sink under the weight of those big balls he was carrying and speaks volumes about American shipbuilding abilities.
Very underrated Admiral. Any senior officer who understands just what gunnery skills are actually needed then enforcing it - well, a refreshing change from some of the other "career" officers that seem to have gotten promoted probably due to either age or contacts only.
Actually he was well respected in the US Navy at the time and current history remembers him well. He really was a total gunnery master and like the video says knew the battleship systems better than its operators and designers from time spent at the bureau of ordinance.
Well he was quite the exception in that he was a genius and Olympic level shooter
Lee did get to take the role as the commander of the fast battleship squadron in the Pacific in 1944. It is just unfortunate for him and the USN that his naval career was curtailed suddenly by dying barely a week or so after Japan surrendered.
@@ZJ517 IKR! I did a research paper on him in high school and before I started everybody was like “who the hell was he?” but when I got finished everyone was like “what a total badass!” Before he died on his ferry trip to USS Wyoming I thought he was going to be given command of the Atlantic fleet which the USS New Jersey would’ve been his flagship. I don’t know if that information is 100% correct. He was a heavy smoker and smoking 2-3 packs of cigarettes can be deadly.
Yeah, Admiral Lee is my hero.
The collaboration with Operations Room adds greatly to the understanding of these events.
The only complaint I have is when torpedoes are launched. I don't know if it's my computer or my eyes but I can barely see them when Drach mentions them.
@@Paludion i can see them torps on my phone.
@@shp27493 My eyes then. ^^
@@Paludion oh wait no. I thought you meant the last video. I read the comment before the torpedo launches on this episode. Anyway, this episode's torps were invisible to me too. Sorry. I think they didn’t want to animate 34 torps and the dodging maneuvers.
Lee is often credited with being the creator of the combat information center.
The reason South Dakota didn't get hit by torpedoes is because the intensity of her crew's foul language actually scared off the enemy weapons.
This series of videos has been painful to watch. It's like both sides were led by people who were trying to lose. Thank god for Rear Admiral Lee.
Maybe WoWS isn't so unrealistic after all…
It's basically been battle, after battle, of two drunks stumbling about in the dark and getting into brawls.
It's because the United States Navy has not been in a serious naval war since 1898 and the Imperial Japanese Navy hasn't been in one either since 1905. For all their naval traditions, the generation that was actually manning the ships and fighting was practically doing it for the first time.
It is my observation that this is often the case in warfare. Militaries train and train for expected conditions, then almost always find themselves fighting in unexpected conditions, which often makes the men fighting seem incompetent. That is simply the nature of warfare.
Think about it like this. The commanders spend their adult lives getting ready to fight a war, then when they finally get the chance, there is confusion, the fog of war. Rarely is the right man for the job in the right place at the right time. In this battle, thankfully, Rear Admiral Lee was there. At Trafalgar, Nelson was there. Such perfect matches of the right commander at the right time rarely happen.
Ha! Just wait until the next round. Hint: "night of the long lances"
Spoiler
Night of every cruiser on fire and/ or sinking
Much credit to Admiral Lee for being the strongest advocate in the USN for radar deployment, training, and usage for the frontline units. This was evident in the performance of radar-assisted gunnery of subsequent units deployed in the Pacific. His performance at Guadalcanal was also a significant factor in his promotions to Commander, Task Force Thirty-Four and Commander, Battleships, Pacific. He drew recommendations and praise from Admirals King, Nimitz, and Halsey, and is considered by some naval historians as the Halsey of surface warfare. One can only wonder how a hypothetical Battle of San Bernardino Strait would have turned out had TF34 been left on station off of San Bernardino Strait during the Battle of Leyte Gulf, rather than going north with Halsey.
IMO, it would have been devastating to the Japanese. Lee would have hidden his ships in the fog and hammered away. Once the Japanese BBs were Swiss cheese he would have closed in for the kill.
I recall reading that Lee had hoped for the chance, and that he'd have loved to have been left at San Bernadino with three or four of his battleships, just waiting to fire full broadsides into Kurita's teeth. Even Yamato would've been heavily damaged, and Nagato and the Kongos would've been torn apart much like Kirishima was at Guadalcanal.
Kirishima has entered the group
Kirishima has left the group
Kirishima has entered the group
Washington has entered the group
Kirishima has left the group
quite violently.
Ayanami has entered the chat.
Kirishima has entered the chat.
Washington has entered the chat
Ayanami has left the chat
Kirishima has left the chat
@@RCAvhstape South Dakota: *AFK*
@YAKUMO RAN SoDak: *telling her success in sinking Kirishima
Mighty W: I'm sorry you did what?
Thank you for this video. My father was aboard USS Washington during this engagement. He was a radio-gunner on the Kingfisher float planes the ship carried. He didn't talk about his experiences but recounted once that he was on the rear deck during the battle and moved behind the 16" turret when things got exciting (maybe a sea story).
Heartfelt thanks from my family to yours. You see, my father was one of the Navy Seabees in tents/foxholes at Henderson Field. One of his main jobs was to fill in the bomb craters on the runway after a Japanese attack. If the IJN had been able to deliver their intended bombardment of Henderson Field, the chances of me being born in 1947 would have been, as they say, slim to none.
Before Drach I was a normal man.. now.. I’m a hard core ship junkie. Thanks Drach.. owe you one-buddy! :)
Same
Funny thing is I served 8 years in the U.S. Navy, but back in those days I wasn't interested in Naval history. Now I'm out of the Navy, I'm interested in the history.
I may get torched for saying this but History Channel’s Enterprise 360 got me interested and wanting more. I’m so glad I found Drachinifel!
I ate up Drachs content hook, line, and sinker. I can’t get enough now!
My Father served on the BB56 Washington thru-out the war. He was a gunner, 20mm, and tasked with taking out enemy aircraft. 2 facts (?) that I have read about the Washington. 10 They never lost a soul to enemy fire. 2) The Washington was the only battleship to directly sink an enemy battleship. Very proud of my father's service, as well as all who defend the US.
Far as I can recall, across both world wars Washington was the only battleship ever to claim a solo kill on another battleship, and Kirishima was the only battleship to be sunk solely by battleship gunfire. It was a singular engagement.
@@mrz80 - I think the Bismark taking care of the Hood would also qualify though technically Hood was called a Battle Cruiser.
I remember hoping Drach would make 1 video about Guadalcanal. This series was more than could be hoped for
Too big of a story for just one.
@@MrDgwphotos Besides, if Drach thinks something is worth doing, it's worth overdoing.
A.k.a. "The one where it's made abundantly clear that the Kongos were _not_ battleships" :P
What would you say they are for a type of vessel?
@@eriksunden4704 Like Drach keeps reiterating, they were still very much battlecruisers despite having had "dIs iZ a FaST bAtTLeshIp" crudely spraypainted on their hulls.
To be fair, only armor able to withstand 16'' fire at this range were front turret faces of frickin Yamato, as told by Drach in Drydock some time ago.
Doubt most BBs short of a Yamato would have fared much better with such a rapid unanswered 16" hit total and a Yamato very well could have sent the hit total upwards being a much larger target. What a Yamato could have had then done to Washington in the dark in this case is an open question assuming her fire control was intact. Not saying a Yamato would have been sunk but she very well could have been mission killed and out of the war for a while at the very least.
They were constructed pre WWI as battle cruisers, but up armored in a modernization in the interwar period, so they were in effect, battleships or close. But armor for a 14 inch gun ship were typically designed to defeat 14 inch shells, so they were not going to defeat 16 inch shells, and especially at close range.
After being somewhat obsessed with naval history for most of my 50+ years, I have become accustomed to the fact that after one has absorbed a certain amount of information, the discovery of something new becomes fewer and farther between. At least something new that is fascinating or exciting. Not that anyone can know everything, but one becomes familiar enough with the subject that it is most common to find oneself revisiting well trodden (by oneself and others) ground.
Between this video, and the one about Lee himself I watched immediately prior, I have been treated to many fascinating tidbits of info about Admiral Lee, USS Washington, U.S. battleships in general, and the 2nd Savo action.
You also clarified a number of things, and answered several questions that I personally have never seen addressed before.
Thank you Mr. Drach! Your refreshing and well made videos make naval history as interesting and rewarding as when I first discovered it!
Bravo, maestro!
Also does Admiral Lee being a five time Olympic gold medal champion counts as overkill?
@@FirstDagger Keep in mind. He won them with different team mates. Lee was also a skilled sport shooter, and won seven medals in the 1920 Olympics shooting events, tied with teammate Lloyd Spooner for the most anyone had ever received in a single games. Their record stood for 60 years. He was the most successful athlete at the 1920
Lee participated in 14 events at the 1920 Summer Olympics in Antwerp. He won 7 medals (5 gold, 1 silver, and 1 bronze), all in team events.[5] His teammates for the various events were Dennis Fenton, Lawrence Nuesslein, Arthur Rothrock, Oliver Schriver, Morris Fisher, Carl Osburn, Lloyd Spooner, and Joseph Jackson.
At the age of 19 in 1907 "he became the only American to win both the US National High Power Rifle and Pistol championships in the same year." I
Ching Lee also won the Navy Cross for his actions at Guadalcanal.
The best kind of kill is overkill
Clearly it wasn't enough kill. Some of them got away.
Last night while playing World of Warships, I mentioned I was listening to you while playing. Opposing player stated he used your videos as white noise to fall asleep to. You were popular last night and well known.
Drach is two, two, two narrators in one! Who has never fallen asleep to one of his longer utterances?
Just an FYI . The former Destroyer USS Sulivans now on exhibit at the Buffalo NY naval park is sinking and is in need of help. Pass this message around please.
Your doing a great job Drac, keep it up!
”Oh look, it’s a tunnel-vision’ing battleship giving flat broadside to xX_Ching_Lee_Xx and his 16” guns? Say it with me kids... That’s a paddlin’!”
- Mighty Jingles, probably
Tier 5 battleship vs tier 8 battleship, with the tier 5 at 5km and giving flat broadside and focusing on something else.
That's definitely a paddlin'. Sounds like it was almost a devstrike too, since they had to flood the magazine..
@@wun1gee Funnily, the citadel was mostly intact. But everything else was fucked. It's precisely the sort of crippling damage that gamers hate.
Ah another jingles fan.
I would say that those guns caused 5 citadel penetrations which caused it to be gifted a denotation flag due to it suffering a magazine detonation
So Jingles is secretly Lee, hmmmmm
No. Lee is secretly Jingles
Well, he is old, salty, and served in the navy, so it tracks.
Fresh from the Salt Mines, the Rear Admiral speaketh
An interesting book for this battle is "Battleship at War: The Epic Story of the USS Washington"by Ivan Musicant. It is far more derogatory about the South Dakota's electrical problems, saying that many of them occurred because the breakers were tied down before the battle actually started, although this information was apparently from a sailor aboard the Washington, and the crews apparently were not on the best of terms. It also has a different (more colorful and far less PC) version of Lee's message to the Cactus navy PT Boats that occurred when radio operators aboard Washington picked up some frightening talk between three nearby torpedo boats regarding Lee’s two battleships: “There go two big ones, but I don’t know whose they are!”. Lee, who had been friends with General Vandergrift since their days at Annapolis radioed information he knew Vandegrift would recognize, Lee's nickname: "This is Ching Chong China Lee, refer your big boss about Ching Lee. Call off your boys!". There is another version of this that was reported "“Refer your big boss about Ching Lee; Chinese, catchee? Call off your boys!”.
The other part of this exchange is that the pt boats were listening to Lee talking to Guadalcanal main CP. When Lee starts saying I am friendly one of the boats skippers is heard to say "he's a phony let's slip the bum a pickle". This is when Lee got angry and told Guadalcanal to " call of their boys".
excellent book
Adm Lee's actual nickname was " Ching Chong" of which he was secretly very proud of as most senior officers were with theirs " Bull" Halsey was another, "Howling Mad" Howland Smith USMC yet another, its a quirk of anglo saxon humour that its a rite of passage even Wellington in 1810 was known as " Conky Atty" or Arthur Bignose" for obvious reason he once promoted a voluble Irish soldier to corporal for ably defending his illicit foraging a chicken and eggs from the Spanish peasantry.
I love these collaborations with the Operations Room.
One thing I've noticed that may be incorrect is the direction the ships are traveling shown in this video. Washington and South Dakota were headed west and Kirishima was on an eastern track, headed in opposite directions.
I greatly appreciate the inclusion of "tokens on the board" as it were. It really does help you understand the battle a lot better than trying to figure out where a ship was supposed to be by pure voice description or at best a chart with lines that say a ship was somewhere over here at 12:00 and there at 14:00, and work out where they would be at 12:30 in relation to other ships plotted somewhere on a line when you're talking about the action at 12:30.
Also, hey look, the first US Admiral that appreciates radar is the first one to win a night surface engagement, who'da thunk it?
TBH Scott seemed to appreciate it, he just didn't have good access.
Japanese fleet: We are here to destroy the airfield.
Alright we have basically won the battle, lets head home.
What about bombarding the airfield?
Say what?
Yep, that's the IJN in a nutshell. After contact with the enemy, withdrawal. This was a case where they really should have bombarded Henderson some more, or at least tried to. Mind you, I'm glad they didn't.
@@therealuncleowen2588 Pretty much seems like the higher ups planned that way throughout the war until it transitioned to leaving soldiers on islands to die in hopeless battles and kamakazis anyway.
@@therealuncleowen2588 For all their aggression as individual warriors, the IJN failed to be aggressive at key moments.
@@spider0804 - Isn't a defeat of the Japanese army a victory for the IJN? ;)
@@tominiowa2513 Sadly yes lol. The relationship between the army and navy of Japan was close to open hostilities.
I don't usually go for "What If?" scenarios, but here's one:
_What If_ Halsey had decided to commit the battleships before the _First_ Naval Battle of Guadalcanal? I believe Lee was senior to Callaghan by a couple of months, so imagine that fight but with the US force not only significantly beefed up but led by an Admiral who really, properly understood how to use radar. And guns.
Now, that's a scenario that would be most interesting to play out. I could see it now. Keep the 2 battleships but have them holding way back behind the line in a broadside formation and then cruiser's up front blocking the whole channel with destroyers as the vanguard to engage in a hit and run tactic. This would draw the enemy in thinking they are chasing a smaller and lighter armed force and then they run smack dab into the cruiser line who have been tracking the enemy via radar and have their guns aimed and ready to fire. Then all at once all the cruisers send a broadside into their respective targets. In the chaos the 2 battleships would let loose broadsides with their guns at the bigger targets. While the wall of flames are pouring from the battle lines the destroyers would bracket the enemy on their port and starboard sides with torpedoes. Making the ships under the fire storm pay dearly for trying to escape the shells heading for them or trying to get into a better firing position. I think this would be a scenario that would indeed be likely, albeit best case and not likely to play out that well. But seeing as how the enemy frequently fixated on their targets its very much possible to have happened.
Although the largest issue is command an control in a night battle. It’s likely that things would have gone far better for the USN sense it’s a mirror match but the USN heavy units are more powerful. I do feel like it wouldn’t be a stomp however
I think that the inexperience the US Navy suffered from at that earlier stage might've wound up with the battleships taking torpedo hits and possibly being lost.
@@RCAvhstape We're talking about the battleships showing up in Ironbottom Sound literally *two days* earlier than they did. Are you suggesting that USS _Washington_ and USS _South Dakota_ gained massive amounts of experience in defeating IJN torpedoes in that time?
@Doctor Detroit that last statement depends on your understanding of modern battleships vs WW1-post WW1 era battleships since both different in various ways. Modern BBs do have better armor schemes and AA batteries not to mention upgraded technology. So if we do base it off of this it could be a much better fight comparatively to that of planes.
The US was in the odd position of winning even when they lost, as the Japanese couldn't sink ships or shoot down planes faster then the US was able to build them.
This is the difference between a "strategic defeat" and a "temporary setback". Can also be part of the definition of a "Pyrrhic victory".
Mind you, there are *so* many what-ifs in this campaign. So many moments when the commander on the scene, on *either* side, failed to properly take advantage of the situation presented to him. The repeated failures to use intelligence provided by radar sets, in particular. And even when the Japanese "won" tactically, they often failed to then continue with their original mission, thereby taking damage for no tangible advantage.
Losing treaty era ships and replacing them with significantly more powerful vessels.
USN doctrine in WW2: "If we throw enough planes at their ships, eventually they'll run out."
The Japanese Navy also seemed singularly capable of failing to follow up, thereby turning a clear tactical victory into a strategic draw if not a defeat
@@austinlange7210 I feel like their decision to fight night engagements was a positive and a negative. It gave them a tactical advantage, but robbed them of seeing the full battlefield well enough to press home their advantage.
Admiral Lee... One has to hand it to this man. Where I come from, he is a legend. A master of his craft... Gunnery.
Who else has been waiting years for Drach to cover Washington vs. Kirishima?
Drachinfel narration + The Operations Room = extra awesome.
The absolute desperation of fighting on both sides in this campaign hasn't (until this video series, including the operations room one), really been captured IMO. This has been fantastic. Thank you Drach for showing something so profoundly moving.
Absolutely fantastic video as always Drach.
Also to paraphrase Jingles...."Surprise buttsex is never a good thing, especially not when its a battleship doing the surprising"
If you're a battleship doing the surprising, it's the _best_ thing.
Thoroughly enjoyed learning about a man who knew how to shoot, and wring the best out of his ship & crew.
Thank you Drachinifel for the work in this. To the other history gee--- er buff here, I recommend the link above to Lundgren's articles at Naval Weapons (at least for those few of you who have not discovered that site.
Add a recommendation for an episode on the USS Massachusetts' action off N.Africa.
(Edited to properly spell Robert Lundgren's name. And seplcherkr says it should be Grendel)
Drachs battle presentations are so concise and vivid. As a longtime listener of Naval lectures I can say truly, that his are among the best.
Can not wait for his take on Halsey's typhoon.
Just rewatched this whole outstanding series on Guadalcanal - can’t thank you enough for doing this
This is a great day for me. I thought I knew lots about WW2. But before today, I had never heard of Admiral Lee. Drach, thank you for teaching me about "Ching" Lee. He makes me very proud to be American.
Great series. I have sailed as a RD through the SLOT on a training exercise in 1971, not appreciating the history as I do now. I am humbled by the sacrifices made by my fellow tincan sailors.
This is just amazing; your production values are better than anything History channel is serving up!
but but it was ancient aliens that gave the US the advantage, so sayeth the history-ish channel
I like how this series is being released concurrently with Battle 360 episodes on the History Channel's youtube page
As HMS Warspite already demonstrated, you do not let a battleship sneak up on you. It always ends poorly.
Zara and Fiume: "Tell us about it."
@Drachinifel One of the main problems that caused the electrical failure aboard SoDak is actually a fairly minute detail in the electrical systems construction. SoDak, for some odd reason, at this time was using time relays, which, in this large of an electrical load, was protected by essentially a chain of capacitors and resistors linked in series. It worked well enough, but was prone to shorting if parts of the system went down for too long. I believe it was switchboard no. 4 that, as a result of the gun blast that momentarily tripped the aft breakers, experienced a short so catastrophic it soldered the ends of the relay together which produced an even worse chain reaction causing the ship-wide power failure. The generators kept trying to send power to the time relays in the switchboards, which were shorting out now because the capacitors were reaching their limits and simply just starting to explode. Thankfully, power was restored in approximately 3 minutes, but as you said, the time relays continued to fail due to the shorts present and SoDak withdrew. The problem was fixed rather quickly and easily. The time relays were simply swapped out for PQ type relays, which had *much* better protection against circuit tripping and shorts. Why these weren't used in the original construction is beyond me. The PQ type relay had certainly been around for a little while now, so its odd to see that it wasn't used in a battleship over a system that is prone to greater failure and has less safeguards.
And in battle, three minutes is an eternity.
Better than the system staying down and the ship careening into the enemy line to get torpedoed.
Ching Lee: The man, the myth, the legend.
You gotta be kidding me... talk about a quote larger than life...sounds like something Picard or Ryker would say in a Star Trek TNG episode/movie! Lee was truly an amazing leader who somehow goes unnoticed when he should have been the template for anyone in command of a gun of any caliber.
Sorry Drach, almost forgot to say I was salivating with anticipation for this video and it easily exceeded my expectations! Thanks for your dedication to topics I’ve been obsessed with for 40 years and still showing me something new!
Simply put, there is no television program or movie I have been anticipating more than this particular series! I know that's probably a sad statement but there it is:-)
I'm right there with you! I even said something to this effect on the last Guadalcanal video lol
I have not watched TV since before this series started. Really nothing on anymore that interest me.
Drachinifel could teach Hollywood a hell of a lot about making an accurate naval picture.
@@westcoaststacker569 I stopped watching broadcast TV about 19 years ago. The shows that were showing up for broadcast just bored me to tears and were stupid. They continue to do both.
@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer I have been away from youtube also for the last week it has been refreshing.
"Stand aside, I'm coming through." :puts on sunglasses at night: "This is Ching Lee" Rip and Tear starts playing
The right man in the right place, in possession of the correct philosophy to wield cutting edge equipment to devastating effect.
My father was on the Washington. He will be 98 years old this August. Love it when he tells his stories!
I read a comprehensive book on the Guadalcanal campaign whilst sailing in the Solomon Islands. Started reading it in Honiara and visited Red beach and the US war memorial that looks over the Galloping horse hill. Also went on to Edson's Ridge and saw where the Japanese attacked, there are still remains of the fox-holes there and local kids showed us spent cases and shrapnel they had found. Henderson Field is the main airport now. Went there too.
I was lucky to be able to read about Iron Bottom Sound while anchored on its edge, by Honiara and to read the Battle of Savo Island whilst I could look over my shoulder and see it a few miles away. We also anchored at Tulagi, where the Japanese torpedo boats were based before the US captured the island. Some divers said our anchor chain was lying over an American Jeep. Reading about the campaign whilst sitting in the middle of it made a great impression on me. Really good to be able to see where it all happened.
Edit: As a footnote we were there when the US was having it's Remembrance Day at the yacht club(?) and my dad and I had gone in to do our dobe (washing clothes) in buckets whilst all these top brass, two admirals and captains of the ships in port, etc in their whites were doing their thing. A female lieutenant came around the corner and stared at us and I uttered my immortal line.
"We're British and just washing our clothes". She went away, as was proper.
Shortly after I tried to use the shower in the facility and was swearing at the thing for not working when I heard the door open and heard one US Navy officer rant at another for not getting the Admiral's honour guard correct and his security detail was shit, etc. This went on for a bit, he was really balling the other guy out and I'm naked trying not to even breath too loudly incase they hear me, looking at my shorts but not wanting to move.
If they had burst in I'd have fallen back on ; "The name's Bond.."
Security was shit, though. I mean, we came ashore at the site, in a dinghy, from a yacht, with big bags and no-one checked a thing.
I have pictures but not sure how to add them to a reply.
If you were anchored at Tulagi you would have been above the HMNzS Moa which was sunk by the Japanese airforce using a 250kg bomb which exploded below deck and the ship sinking in 4 minutes. 5 NZ sailors were killed my uncle being one of them. Members of our family attended a memorial service (75th aniversay ) on 7 April 2018 which was part of the NZ Navy memorial.
This was fantastic. Love the collaboration with The Operations Room as it allowed us to better visualize the battle.
Note that, with the loss of Kinugasa on the 14th, all ships of Cruiser Division 8 (veterans of Savo Island) have been crippled or sunk: Kako torpedoed just short of its base in August, Furutaka sunk and Aoba crippled at Cape Esperance in October, and Kinugasa in November. Chokai (Mikawa's flagship in August) would continue much longer, of course, being sunk off Samar in October 1944.
Thanks for such an informative post! You are far and away the best presenter of all things naval. From ship classes to engagements such as this, I always enjoy your posts and look forward to the next. Thanks again!
This is exactly what we need. More detail on lesser known events typically glossed over by existing general documentaries.
Can we get a video on the damage report on South Dakota including the detailed report on what happened and how they ended up fixing the problems?
Also a good representation on the battle damage report generated for Kirishima. I have read it on navweapons, but Drach can probably clarify it more.
Nothing tops a Battleship paddling another Battleship/Cruiser.
Kirishima: *fires at south dakota* why do I hear boss music?
Badass lee: it's MEEE!
18:49 when Washington's 40 second "Courageous Shelling" activates
That’s an Azur Lane reference wasn’t it?
@@ph89787 yes, the skill was a little OP, clears the wave in mere seconds
I've been waiting for this episode with baited breath!! It's my favorite battle to read about in the Pacific
Thank you, Britannia! For producing such a man as Drachinifel!
Awesome that you do a collab with The Operations Room ! Love you both ^^ His Video on Desert Storms Air War had me hooked
Jim Simmons of Newport, R.I. and Marysville, Ohio had two cruisers sunk under him there. He worked in research for SCOTT'S Hyponex later.
Well done chaps. The addition of the animation certainly moves this into new territory. Very pro, dude!
Drachinifel by far has the most comprehensive and easiest to follow along with documentaries in its field. Excellent work fellow. 👍
I was going to mention how helpful the animations were to enhance your narrative a fine combination thank you
Great video as always, Drach!
The animations are a great addition. Really looking forward to more like them in the future.
Sorry to read that Lee died relatively young. Great job, as always Drack. Going check the biblio in the description.
Yeah stress of the war, a lot of Admirals in the Pacific fleet seem to have died off in the immediate decade afterwards. Mitscher, McCain, Lee to name a few.
Like Patton, he was pure warrior in battle.
He went on to reincarnation, for the next time we need the best Navy man, surface or space!
at 24:00 that land based artillery included my young father in law Pfc Salvatore Ferrara from the bronx,ny. Battery K 247th field artillery.which supported Vandergrifts marines and quite left off the TOT.He would receive a bronze start and a PUC for his efforts. Including a lifetime of malaria and PTSD from the huge guns shelling each night. years later i would find a newspaper for a baseball game that included "bat juggling" by "sparrow". He would keep that nickname and the love and admiration of his family all his life.
26:08. Also by December, USS Saratoga would return and Admiral King (to in his mind eternal shame) borrowed HMS Victorious (USS Robin) from the Royal Navy at the start of 1943.
Still want to know the CV number of "USS Robin". (heh!)
I personally like King despite his hatred of the English
@@JohnSmith-kg2rt when he didn’t let his anglophobia cloud his Judgement. He was an alright Admiral.
@@ph89787 very good at fighting the USNs corner also very good organizer. Also someone who I find very amusing to read about
I will say it to the day I die King wasn’t an Anglophobe
18:46 what was jingles doing there
Who else could you possibly have for that line? :)
@@Drachinifel can I inquire as to what happened to your USS Franklin video?
@@Dynasty0612 It's explained somewhere in discord chat logs and I'm not sure I or Drachinifel should mention it here in the comments.
As for Jingles, who else would you choose to narrate an admiral delivering both a paddling and a dose of surprise buttsex?
For the massively ignorant, who, or what, is a Jingles?
@@afx935 search the mighty jingles on youtube
This is why Japan nicknamed Guadalcanal “Starvation Island”
Once again, fine content. As someone who studied military history from a early age, then locking onto WW2 studying the Pacific battles once I was a US Marine, this channel has been a great source of information. Thanks again Drachinifel for making history interesting. I finally decided to take the plunge and become a patron. It will be worth every penny.
Admiral Lee is my hero.
Edit: 10:40 I'm putting this time stamp for myself, that line was executed so well!
11:35 Why, a 16" rifle is a nice home-defence weapon :)
Load it with blue dot and you can set them on fire from the flash as well. I almost wonder what psychological effect a 16" dragon's breath shell would have.
@@robertslugg8361 Well, the Japanese made the Type 3 AA shell for battleship guns which rather amounts to the same thing. Reportedly scary the first time or two you see it from an airplane until you realize that it's basically harmless unless you are exceedingly unlucky.
It’s a terrible shame this action isn’t better known. Lee’s leadership in this engagement is an inspiration.
2:06 "Hey ! Japanese cruiser ! We don't take kindly to your types round here." - Lt.(JG) A.Skeeter
Admiral Lee knew what the hell he was doing and deserved the Medal of Honor for this action alone, but received a Navy Cross instead. I suppose if he'd been killed during the engagement, the Navy would have insisted on the higher award. I doubt it mattered to Lee. He won the day and changed the course of the war in this part of the Pacific. Yet for some reason all the stories we read and hear are about Callaghan and Scott, two admirals who are best remembered for their failures around Guadalcanal. I am curious to know why the South Dakota had so many electrical problems during this latest fight when Washington did not. I know they were different class ships but they were built during the same time period.
Excellent job! I just finished Neptune's Inferno that focuses on this campaign and I highly recommend it for anyone wanting a deeper understanding of this campaign.
I actually had an upload notification for this one! Glad TH-cam knows which channel to prioritise
Fantastic stuff Drach and also serious kudos to the contributors who helped with the annotations to make it a clearer picture. Plus the excellent Jingles Cameo.
P.s. who else thinks Admiral Lee should become a special commander in World of Warships with an expertise in gunnery!!
Well done. The graphic representations are accurate and without superfluous images of British, German or other uninvolved ships and aircraft as many others have done.
What happens when you put an admiral in command with an understanding of radar and 16 inch marksmanship, very bad things for the other side.
My life is so sad, I've been looking forward to this all week....
You and me both, and that doesn't make for a sad life, Drach's videos are awesome!
I have been waiting for this for a while. I have read up on rear Admiral Lee and he was certainly the right person in the right place at the right time. Thanks so much for this well-narrated and animated naval documentary.
oh shit that escalated quickly i wasn't expecting the next part for a few weeks but TY Drach
As much as I thought I knew about Guadalcanal every time I listen to your post I learn more than I knew...excellent...I seriously wish you would do the same thing for the US Submarine warfare in the Pacific, now thats a series that could go on for months
I'd like to thank you and the Operations Room for covering the dual night actions in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. These two videos were eminently more understandable and enjoyable than the chapter in Samuel Elliott Morrison's work "The Struggle for Guadalcanal" and what passes for documentaries on the History Channel and Military Channel.
The conventional story of World War II in the Pacific largely ignores Guadalcanal and the knockout drawn out fight between the Americans and Japanese in 1942. America's victory is generally written off as being to you to more and better material starting in 1943. the fact that the American and Japanese navies battered each other to ruin in 1942 with the United States walking away with more and better trained sailors and aircrew is ignored.
Regarding the battle itself, I still considered a miracle that USS South Dakota was not sent to the bottom with a half dozen torpedo hits.
I knew coming in that Admiral Lee had commanded the first American battleship on battleship battles since the Spanish-American War. I was not aware of his prowess at the Olympics.
Unfortunately, there were no "battleship on battleship" actions in the Span-Am War. PELAYO was headed for the Far East, but did not make it to the Suez Canal, before Spain decided to give it up.
Every time you show a photo of Adm. Kondo, the first thing coming to mind; Is the admiral Italian?
Sorta looks like Mussolini, huh.
That Mighty Jingles Sound clip made my day. Thanks Drach.
A fabulous episode about a fascinating battle... I had never heard of ADM Lee, but what an incredible man and leader!
The animations are a nice addition. Thanks for posting yet another excellent video!
Hats off to Washington for being the MVP this match.
You really missed the opportunity for another poignant Jingles quote in regards to Kirishima: "Sailing broadside on to a battleship? That's a paddlin'.." XD
@@0ld.Richard cruisers and battlecruisers facing full on battleships however, are not.
Also, it was a sarcastic joke, not an actual comment on actual tactics...
@@0ld.Richard It makes sense in WoWs, since range is given and lead is hard to calculate, versus real life where lead isn't so bad, but range is more unknown.
@@0ld.Richard Depends on whose idea of a battleship you're talking about. The French all-forward-main-armament battleships were supposed to fight bow on to the enemy or at an angle as they were intended to pursue and run down enemy battleships. (Mind, whether or not this was a *good* idea is another discussion entirely...)
@@SonsOfLorgar Especially this - this battle showed why it's a generally bad idea to go up against a battleship with a a battlecruiser. Not even an upgraded battlecruiser with a "I'm a battleship, really" gigantic P-Touch label stuck to each side of the ship. South Dakota was hit with considerably more tonnage of munitions than Kirishima but managed to drive away in the end, thus demonstrating the worth of battleship armor. Washington proved the converse - that giving battle to a functional battleship with a battlecruiser at a distance that the battlecruiser's superior speed does it no good is an incredibly, horrifically bad idea. Graphically demonstrated to everyone as Washington promptly expressed its extreme displeasure with the Japanese Navy and Admiral Kondo by brutally executing Kirishima and dancing away into the darkness laughing maniacally.
I suspect one factor in Admiral Kondo's decision to retire from the field instead of pressing on to shell Henderson Field was the fact that the Washington, having sunk the most powerful unit in his squadron in extremely short order from the darkness, and once located having danced around every torpedo his people had thrown at it in a way battleships weren't supposed to be able to do had disappeared back into the darkness. It had just proven that it could obliterate Kirishima in just a few minutes of fire and disappear - and nothing he had left was as powerful or well armored as Kirishima. And he had *no* idea where it had gone or what it was doing.
this past summer i visted the USS North carolina and the USS Alabama...both of these ships were very impressive, however the Alabama, which is moored in Mobile, al was in a sort of way significant, ill explain why in a moment. Both ships are massive in size, of course the big naval guns stand out, and when i watch these videos, i couldnt imagine being on the angry side of them. As for the Alabama, when you leave her and get back on the road, you can see her as she is facing you from the highway!...all 6 of her 14 inch main guns pointing at you as you leave, awesome, awesome sight
The USS Wisconsin at Norfolk is the same way as the Alabama...run the red light? OH NO YOU WILL NOT!!!
you BOTH need to do more videos together, I love your voice and extreme detail and love The Operation Rooms animated scenes