It seems you overlooked another thing about Camels being Ships Columbus went to the New World trying to find an alternate route to, you guessed it, India
Zeredek no thats not truth.. this is what european exlplores make you know to protect patriotism.. im reality berber and turks where the first to reach "new world" check piris reis map of the world with south pole included.. that was before the "discoveries"... why portugal and spain were the first europeans to go on colonies? Because before portugal and spain this was alandalus and was conected to north africa.. sailors depart from lisbon and algarve much before the portugal kingdom foundation.. but if this comes to know all the mystic and heroic side of history will decay... history is much more than myths , and in west we are used to be brainwashed... peace from portugal
@Duarte the map in question was created in 1510 and USED the map of Columbus as a source. Barbary Corsairs from North Africa were known to raid as far north as Iceland BUT if they had gotten to the new world there would be people in Africa with Native American heritage, which there are not. The Turks never really ventured out of the Mediterranean, Black, Red and Persian Seas with a few exceptions. There are a few conspiracy theories that maybe the Romans found South America as they did colonise the Canaries but an expedition like that would have been recorded and mentioned in some Roman writings, which it isn't. Lastly, the Nordic bois discovered the 'New World' first as far as we know, and they did it long before the Portrogeus. We are not brainwashed in the west, just well educated.
tbh that's actually a good historical analysis, because unlike horses or caravans, camels could "swim" across the sands. that was the logic behind the euphemism.
This civ was changed quite a bit in the African Kingdom expansion release, a few months after this video went up. I talk about those changes in another video: th-cam.com/video/BxYLvnDl36I/w-d-xo.html
you forgot to include archer vs elephant archer, i found it to be a better counter then skirmishers because the elephant archers doesn't melt from champions
Indian kingdoms: Use elephants as heavy cavalry, employ light and medium cavalry and cav archers with situational use of camels and no gunpowder till 1526. Devs: Let's make them a camel and hand cannoneer civ😪
There was one thing on your grading that I disagreed with, can't seem to remember it, but I feel that it should be mentioned that the Indians are a good support civilization, probably perfect for the pocket. While they don't get knights, light cav/hussar is a good raiding unit, and camels are the perfect anti-cav unit, which would counteract the opposing team if they produced knights. Also, I love the breakdown you did for the explanation of camels being ships. That was the greatest breakdown ever!
Best overviews on the web for one of the best strategic games. I appreciate your time, and your conclusions based on LOGIC. That being said... Mongols man, gotta see the Mongols. Balance backed by speed and power. Just like Miyamoto Musashi preached; props to the Japanese.
Physics says no, but at the same time the game has a few unrealistic points such as 10 elephants in a transport ship (without the improvement stuff), but impossible to have 11 swordsmen in the transport
There is obviously no comparison. Saracen Heacy Camel vs Indian Imperial Camel: HP: 170 vs 160 (10 HP for Saracen is not great considering the following) Attack: 7+4 vs 9+4 Armor: 3-4 vs 4-5 or 3-5 (later on) Cool look vs cooler look Obviously the Indian one is better, especially against pierce units (includes defensive buildings too because of that +3/+3 vs std bld/bld - team bonus)
Half the comments are 'camels are the ships of the desert'. How boring. No deeper discussions. The video is quite elaborate. Amazing work! As someone mentioned, the potential as a support civ must be considered as well..
Yes, elephant archers don’t do well against anti-cavalry units, but they are surprisingly useful when used as mobile fire support platforms: with the help of a few monks (healing), I had twenty of them take down a castle while suffering only one lost elephant!
My favorite civilization to use is the Franks because I like Paladin rushing as soon as I get to the Imperial age, and I love the free farm upgrades. It makes regicide games really fun.
the choice to make indians 'the camel civ' is pretty bizarre, given that camels only exist in one specific, rural part of india, whereas horses - and their use in warfare - have an incredibly long history on the indian subcontinent
I think of the cheaper villager bonus as helping with creating vills slightly sooner as food is being gathered, thus avoiding tc idle time, as opposed to a large scale savings during a game
I think the nice thing about the elephant archer is you can wade into areas threatened by building fire more then normal archers can. If you had a standard archer combo with siege, if you pushed heavy into a defended town with towers and castles the archers would get shredded by the buildings leaving your siege venerable to infantry. They are also seam like a strong counter to horse archers.
Tawab Ghafari ah yes. I don't know yet. Seems like Vikings, Franks, and Mongols are the next most popularly requested overall. I have a couple of other videos i want to make before the next civ overview though :)
I had to kek at the camels = ships logic. But in all seriousness, camels were often referred to as "ships of the desert" for their role not unlike horses or... ships.
The chain of logic and deductive reasoning to explain why a camel is a ship is only matched in its intellectual depth and worldly wisdom by the way Sir Bedevere the Wise explains to the peasantry of the Britons how they can determine if a woman is a witch in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Pure genius.
Here's my thoughts on the Elephant Archer: It has a better rate of turnover than an Arbalest does, similar to the War Wagon, and has a lot more resilience to enemy ranged attacks, especially to Onagers. Onagers will utterly annihilate Arbalests and Hand Cannoneers, but Elephant Archers can take a hit or two. Also, if your opponent doesn't have Halberdiers, they can be good as a tanky archery unit. Lastly, Elephant Archers are less vulnerable to cavalry attack, as their durability lets them survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive.
Except knights deal bonus to them due to having +0 attack against Archers and Elephant Archers have a -2 Archer Armor meaning they take +2 from Knights... ;-;
Even with that bonus damage, Elephant Archers are going to survive longer against cavalry attack than Arbalests will (Arbs die pretty quickly to cavalry).
darkdill This would matter if elephants had much higher attack to hit back with, thus cavalry mostly will always win 1v1. Higher HP matters only if you actually WIN against some cavalry, which they don't.
Spirit Of The Law No, I read that someone in the comment section wanted to make you one and I'm pretty sure it wasMrFoo, either way great vid I wanted you to do the Indians overview since I don't have Forgotten Empires yet :P
Spirit Of The Law What would happen if (Indian) camels would not be weak to building fire (or Heated Shot), taking similar damage as knights would - surely this would make them an option.
There is another small difference between Elephant Archers/Warwagons and a generic Heavy Cavalry Archer. While a heavy cav archer does 1 Dmg against buildings (Saracens are the exception) Elite Elephant Archers do 4 Dmg and Elite Warwagons do 5 Dmg, so they not only have a lower turnover but an equally sized army is much more dangerous to buildings (even if its nothing compared to Infantry or heavy Cavalry)
Maybe the best explanation for why camels are classified as boats is that camels function as a way to transport goods in deserts and ships can transport goods across the oceans. Well this will make sense if AOE has camels carrying trade carts
Hey I live in India and I don't see a lot of camels roaming around. We have a lot more horses than camels. But we have an abundance of cows. Cow Archer would be an interesting addition to the age of empires I think.
Hey Spirit Of The Law I wanna ask u 2 questions 1.) Check for gold production if U have Spanish and Aztecs as allies 2.) Most Important in a 1 v 1 Saracens Camels group vs 1 v 1 Imperial Camels what is the impact? As per your ratings I see Indians as a weak Civilization, but I find them Flexible Civ just like Byzantine. However, ur calculations are way better than mine.
TheRedBaron Their gold production would be off the charts with Spanish and Aztec allies haha. Are you asking about Saracen mamelukes vs imperial camels? I feel like I'm misreading the second question. If I can put it this way,I wouldn't trust myself playing Indians in a ranked game at this point, but I'd definitely use them in an unranked fun game just to mix things up. I think the comparison with the Byzantines makes sense, although there's something a bit more scrappy about the Byzantines and their cheap trash that I love :) It's too bad they already used up a cheaper camel civ bonus on Byz, because that probably would have been nice for the Indians. -25% or -33% cost would make Indians really competitive in the Castle age, I think.
Elephant : Trumpets Monk : Jesus is the only way... Elephant : Changes religion and becomes a believer. 😂😂 Indian Monk : Aum... Elephant : Becomes Hindu... In all of AOE2, converting elephants always makes me laugh.
For what it's worth, knights get a seemingly unintended +2 damage to elephant archers. This is because the knight line has a +0 anti-archer bonus, so that it can be modified into +2 by the Persian team bonus, while the elephant archer has -2 armour against anti-archer attacks, which is presumably intended as a skirmisher buff. Persians' and their teammates' knights, naturally, get to double down on this and do +4.
Yikes. Even the war wagon can say that it has a true purpose in battle. Who would want to pay so much for an arbalests job? And Indians do get arbalest so ... what is the point?
I have found that the elephant archers only really work for me in two scenarios. -firstly, on masse. If you are able to successfully boom up and get enough castles and importantly TIME to get a critical mass of these bad boys, not even siege onagers can stop them, unless with superb micro or the right civ with bonuses accordingly. In 1&1 games, not a recommend strategy for obvious reasons. You would be dead befell you got enough of them out. In team games however, if you are luckily the pocket as Indians, this can be a incredibly powerful army that can potentially win you the game. -secondly. I found that when playing with Indians 1&1, mixing elephant archers through a ranged ball of units, crossbows, skirts, they compliment the units around them well soaking up so much dmg, especially against comparative ra get army's. This is interesting as it gives a 'tanks edge' to an otherwise weak army comp. onagers will kill the rest of your army but allowing the ele archers ( character limit)
To take the damage while you micro the rest of your army can work quite well. Of course it is best to have some from of infantry shield at the front as with and ranged army but this army Como, with the intermittent ele archer is a fun one to play around with
Exactly! Same role as the Korean War wagon. It is a weird unit, doesn't have a super obvious niche in combat, but is very useful when utilized properly. If you boom right and build a huge army, by mixing in about a dozen or more Indian elephants it makes your army nearly impossible to stop. They just soak up so much damage that it is nearly impossible to defeat them.
Attila The Anti-Revisionist Except that why would you want a slow, expensive archer that barely outdamages an arbalest and has lesser range? Did you play test them against some cavalry where they came out on top? Even the war wagon has a decent movement speed and hits harder than the elephant archer. People whine about the war elephant being too easy to counter and too expensive, but they don't realise that war elephant kills most things at melee even when outnumbered. It makes sense that it is super expensive. It has super hp, one of the highest base attack among UUs, and great armor rating. War elephants soaking up damage is helpful because it means they can outlast their counters and, you want to kill them quick, because which unit wants to take 20+4 damage in the face(not even FU pallies want to directly engae with these guys) while elephant is taking more than 100+ damage from 3 halbs at a time.
That's the music that plays when you pick the civilization within the game. Spirit of the law did not make the music choice. All the music within this vid is in-game music.
I'm pleased to see the Indian civilization in AOE2, at the same time I'm kind of disappointed to see it in an expansion way behind Age of Kings and The Conquerors. and the title is quite misleading, "The Forgotten Empires", if they were forgotten, we wouldn't remember. Better rename the title as "The unforgotten empires" because if so, we wouldn't know them.
i like to use elephant archers in a way similar to normal ones as a supporting unit getting some hits in on the enemies in the front who are fighting my melee units the point is that elephant archers are super tanky compared to foot archers and wich a bunch of monks healing them it can be very hard for the opponent to break the stalemate unless he uses super high range stuff like cannons
Elephant Archers should be able to dual attack with separate targeting. At least defensive melee from the elephant while the archer should be able to free target. They are so underpowered as is.
tho, Sultans doesn't cost gold to get! A castle and the goldless price of the tech, while the aztecs need at least one monk, and Spanish trade carts cost 50 gold each
Hey Spirit, what do you think about Camels becoming an independent unit, not classified as boats any longer? Now with their atrocious raiding fixed they *have* technically fixed their biggest flaw.
Fun fact, germans do call camels "Wüstenschiffe"(translates to desert ships) because you can get seasick riding them, so maybe aoe2 was unto something here
The Indians' main strength was historically -- elephant cavalry, infantry, archers, skirmishers. There was also something called a mace that could deal heavy damage to buildings and people -- a mace warrior? In antiquity there are plenty of tales of old chariot warriors -- that would have been interesting -- lots of HP, speed, range and the option to go on foot if the chariot broke. They didn't have that heavy cavalry and I think camels aren't that strong. Except for the South Indians, their Navy was really weak or non-existent and they had very limited artillery. The South Indians had a powerful navy and went as far as Indonesia and Cambodia. But other than the naval weakness of the North Indian kingdoms, they made good researchers. Do they get crop rotation? By the way, why this theme selection for the Indians?
srinitaaigaura Wow, you've probably never heard of the Chola empire, which had the strongest navy of Asia at the time. Don't comment about stuff you don't know about.
@@JJ-fn2xj Not sure if OP was referring to the geographical limits or "North Indian" kingdoms. The former doesn't make much sense - it's hard to have a navy when there's no ocean around. That's like saving that the Persians didn't really have a great navy in Bactria - technically true but it's landlocked so that's quite expected. South India is a peninsula - water on three sides - while North India really doesn't have much exposure to the oceans. However, Indian empires seldom adhered to these North-South boundaries and had navies in the South. Smaller kingdoms in the North would've only had water for either riverine warfare or in areas like Bengal, Sindh and Gujarat, depending on which kingdom you're looking at. On the other hand, pan Indian empires, like the Cholas whose influence extended from South India to parts of North India, had a powerful navy.
@@chronikhiles Dude, I currently LIVE here. I know what I am talking about. Yes the Cholas had a powerful navy and should actually be a separate civ unto themselves. India is a diverse country and needs more than one civilization to properly represent it. Actually I would have liked it if like the Trebuchet, the Indian elephant could switch between archery attack to melee attack. The Perisan war elephants came from India. Also the steel used in European Swords came from South India too. I also would have added a "cash crop" Tech to the Indian economy, this country was among the richest in the world during the medieval period.
I would have liked to have seen Elephant Archers vs Calvary Archers, to see who would win. If the Elephants are better, then maybe they are a good counter to the Huns. Have camels to fight paladins and elephants to fight cav archers?
David Wolf I imagine elite elephant archers would win easily against heavy cav archers because of the pierce armour, but a Hun player would be crazy to take that fight, and could avoid the elephants without too much trouble. Cav archers probably come out on the field in early castle age and disappear before the elephant archers are out, though
Still might be a good way to keep calvary archers at bay (if they are still in play). Keep them around vulnerable eco, to prevent raiding and use them as a deterrent. Skirmishers can manage the same thing though, i suppose. I'm just trying to find a use for them! lol
David Wolf The Huns are a rather bad late game civ. They are only used so much, because of their early game bonuses, so when the indian bonus against them comes into play, most civs shouldn't have that much of a difficulty dealing with the huns!
You should have given ships an A+ rating for finally having land representation.
Or you could've just said that camels are the ships of the desert. xD
TyrannosaurHex Yes, that's what they're very well known for :P
TyrannosaurHex damn you beat me to posting it... by two days... I'm getting old
TyrannosaurHex I was just going to say that. That's like, the most famous saying about camels and I can't believe he missed it.
wow
r/whoosh
It seems you overlooked another thing about Camels being Ships
Columbus went to the New World trying to find an alternate route to, you guessed it, India
+Zeredek Also camels are sometimes referred to as the "ships of the desert" ;)
Zeredek I don't rly get why that's relevant
Peter Joy The joke is that it isn't.
Zeredek no thats not truth.. this is what european exlplores make you know to protect patriotism.. im reality berber and turks where the first to reach "new world" check piris reis map of the world with south pole included.. that was before the "discoveries"... why portugal and spain were the first europeans to go on colonies? Because before portugal and spain this was alandalus and was conected to north africa.. sailors depart from lisbon and algarve much before the portugal kingdom foundation.. but if this comes to know all the mystic and heroic side of history will decay... history is much more than myths , and in west we are used to be brainwashed... peace from portugal
@Duarte the map in question was created in 1510 and USED the map of Columbus as a source. Barbary Corsairs from North Africa were known to raid as far north as Iceland BUT if they had gotten to the new world there would be people in Africa with Native American heritage, which there are not. The Turks never really ventured out of the Mediterranean, Black, Red and Persian Seas with a few exceptions. There are a few conspiracy theories that maybe the Romans found South America as they did colonise the Canaries but an expedition like that would have been recorded and mentioned in some Roman writings, which it isn't. Lastly, the Nordic bois discovered the 'New World' first as far as we know, and they did it long before the Portrogeus. We are not brainwashed in the west, just well educated.
2 in the morning, can't sleep, see a new Spirit of the Law video. Happy as fuck. Thanks man
India was the origin of war elephants in battlefield, and age of empires gives india camels🤦
Well they got elephant archer. And war elephants is already a unique unit for persians
Yes you're right
@Imperyong Maharlika Not yet, India is very strong but lacks the ability to project power outside of its immediate area.
@Imperyong Maharlika wtf..
India is either grouped together with arabs or either grouped together with asians
Poor Ellek the Hun kept asking you to ally him :(
+Gary Oak it's ok. We had a nice chat and became friends after the game. He's a cool guy
+Spirit Of The Law elephant archers seem worthless.
Camels are called the "ships of the desert." That's why they're ships.
To be honest his explanations are more convincing.
tbh that's actually a good historical analysis, because unlike horses or caravans, camels could "swim" across the sands. that was the logic behind the euphemism.
I AM DEAD 😂
This civ was changed quite a bit in the African Kingdom expansion release, a few months after this video went up. I talk about those changes in another video:
th-cam.com/video/BxYLvnDl36I/w-d-xo.html
2 days ago am I reading this right lol Also liking the new thumbnails you put on all the overveiws, did you make them yourself?
you forgot to include archer vs elephant archer, i found it to be a better counter then skirmishers because the elephant archers doesn't melt from champions
Indian kingdoms: Use elephants as heavy cavalry, employ light and medium cavalry and cav archers with situational use of camels and no gunpowder till 1526.
Devs: Let's make them a camel and hand cannoneer civ😪
I mean Indians use gunpowder but I am triggered they didn't give bombard towers like what
@@immortalwarrior2695 No they didnt
Oh, one more thing you forgot to mention: Imperial Camels don't take bonus damage from Samurai, as they're technically not Unique Units.
Yeah like the Imperial skirmisher
Now they do
There was one thing on your grading that I disagreed with, can't seem to remember it, but I feel that it should be mentioned that the Indians are a good support civilization, probably perfect for the pocket. While they don't get knights, light cav/hussar is a good raiding unit, and camels are the perfect anti-cav unit, which would counteract the opposing team if they produced knights.
Also, I love the breakdown you did for the explanation of camels being ships. That was the greatest breakdown ever!
The Camel/Boat comparison really cleared that all up in a well thought out and logical manner.
That camel and ship comparison honestly had me cracking up. Your sense of humor is awesome!
humor ?
Best overviews on the web for one of the best strategic games. I appreciate your time, and your conclusions based on LOGIC. That being said... Mongols man, gotta see the Mongols. Balance backed by speed and power. Just like Miyamoto Musashi preached; props to the Japanese.
Intro's a bit too anime for my liking, but cool nevertheless. Also loved the boat-camel explanation, reminded me of Peladophobian :)
That anime intro is what makes it awesome my dude. Anime makes everything more astounding and great.
@@someorclad9738 anime makes everything worse
@@someorclad9738 no
stupid expansion, elephant archers should have much higher damage coz they are attacking from a higher position... ugh
Yesss well a lot of things could change like make some weak civs better. We the players have to tell the makers :D
Dat 25% elevation bonus
Physics says no, but at the same time the game has a few unrealistic points such as 10 elephants in a transport ship (without the improvement stuff), but impossible to have 11 swordsmen in the transport
Also higher range too...5 instead of 4...
honestly a elephant can carry more than one man with equipment in it so more archers i gues
I noticed that the Indian’s unique architecture wasn’t in the game when SOTL made this video. I alway thought they started with it.
Yeah, I don't think they got their architecture either until African Kingdoms or Rise of Rajas
@@PineJayForge African Kingdoms. That was also when their map was added.
I think that you missed out on a crucial comparison: How much better in Performance are Imperial Camels to Saracen Heavy Camels (HP boosted).
There is obviously no comparison.
Saracen Heacy Camel vs Indian Imperial Camel:
HP: 170 vs 160 (10 HP for Saracen is not great considering the following)
Attack: 7+4 vs 9+4
Armor: 3-4 vs 4-5 or 3-5 (later on)
Cool look vs cooler look
Obviously the Indian one is better, especially against pierce units (includes defensive buildings too because of that +3/+3 vs std bld/bld - team bonus)
Just noticed you forgot monks :D What rating would you give?
Can you do a hall of fame video? For example, which civ is best at gaining gold, which has the best archers, etc.
It's kind of impressive how heavily the Imperial Camel trounces the Paladin.
Well camels are made to counter cavalry and those precious paladins don't stand a chance. Best bet is to just run!
@@XThexXTank they can't run either. Camels arr much fatser than knights. A FU castle age knight is slightly faster than a camel without husbandry.
Half the comments are 'camels are the ships of the desert'. How boring. No deeper discussions. The video is quite elaborate. Amazing work!
As someone mentioned, the potential as a support civ must be considered as well..
Yes, elephant archers don’t do well against anti-cavalry units, but they are surprisingly useful when used as mobile fire support platforms: with the help of a few monks (healing), I had twenty of them take down a castle while suffering only one lost elephant!
This video is really outdated now.
Man remember back when there was only one Indian civ? We've come a long way since then.
Your logic on the boats to camels relationship is on point
That was a pretty cool freaking intro! I really enjoyed seeing something new from all the videos that I have seen
Imperial Camel beats Sarcens Heavy Camel ! THIS IS THE END !
the entire "SotL comes up with conspiracy theories as to why camels are coded as ships" segment is pretty funny
A moment of silence for this soon-to-be obsolete overview
I've seen all your civ overviews, and I think that:
1. you've gotten better over time
2. it wouldn't hurt to do all the civs.
Dmitri Liu thanks, I agree with both of those things haha. Doing all the civs might take a little while, but it will happen
I'm definitely learning a lot from these videos. :D
My favorite civilization to use is the Franks because I like Paladin rushing as soon as I get to the Imperial age, and I love the free farm upgrades. It makes regicide games really fun.
Haha, loved the boat-camel part. Good video again. Keep up the good work mate!
LOL that Illuminaty camel thing made me laugh so hard xD
In German, there is the old word "Wüstenschiff" (Desert ship) for camels, so yeah, boats ;)
Hi Spirit of the law...with AoAK no longer considering Camels as ships Can you please redo a vedio on comparison od Imperial camel vs paladins??
Nice detail about the camel bout hehe
Camel are also called "the ship of the desert", so it really does fit them well.
the choice to make indians 'the camel civ' is pretty bizarre, given that camels only exist in one specific, rural part of india, whereas horses - and their use in warfare - have an incredibly long history on the indian subcontinent
you could add an annotation at around 17:45 or so mentioning camels no longer take so much damage due to an update
I think of the cheaper villager bonus as helping with creating vills slightly sooner as food is being gathered, thus avoiding tc idle time, as opposed to a large scale savings during a game
I think the nice thing about the elephant archer is you can wade into areas threatened by building fire more then normal archers can. If you had a standard archer combo with siege, if you pushed heavy into a defended town with towers and castles the archers would get shredded by the buildings leaving your siege venerable to infantry. They are also seam like a strong counter to horse archers.
EagleTopGaming Agreed
the death animations and the corpes of the unique indish units are horribly bad.
youre right, bit buggy
*indian
Indian or Indic*
Fantastic as always! What Civ is next? You usually tell us!
Tawab Ghafari ah yes. I don't know yet. Seems like Vikings, Franks, and Mongols are the next most popularly requested overall. I have a couple of other videos i want to make before the next civ overview though :)
That's awesome! : ) I was waiting to see Mongols as one of them : ) I asked you on Steam few days ago!
I had to kek at the camels = ships logic. But in all seriousness, camels were often referred to as "ships of the desert" for their role not unlike horses or... ships.
Camels = Illuminati, confirmed.
The chain of logic and deductive reasoning to explain why a camel is a ship is only matched in its intellectual depth and worldly wisdom by the way Sir Bedevere the Wise explains to the peasantry of the Britons how they can determine if a woman is a witch in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Pure genius.
The eco bonus from using flip flops instead of shoes really makes this civ shine.
Here's my thoughts on the Elephant Archer: It has a better rate of turnover than an Arbalest does, similar to the War Wagon, and has a lot more resilience to enemy ranged attacks, especially to Onagers. Onagers will utterly annihilate Arbalests and Hand Cannoneers, but Elephant Archers can take a hit or two. Also, if your opponent doesn't have Halberdiers, they can be good as a tanky archery unit.
Lastly, Elephant Archers are less vulnerable to cavalry attack, as their durability lets them survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive.
Except knights deal bonus to them due to having +0 attack against Archers and Elephant Archers have a -2 Archer Armor meaning they take +2 from Knights... ;-;
Even with that bonus damage, Elephant Archers are going to survive longer against cavalry attack than Arbalests will (Arbs die pretty quickly to cavalry).
darkdill
This would matter if elephants had much higher attack to hit back with, thus cavalry mostly will always win 1v1. Higher HP matters only if you actually WIN against some cavalry, which they don't.
Comments on Elephant Archers? I did fight a bot and it did a great job with it way better than I thought, and now i want to see strategies with it.
I saw in the comments of one video that someone wanted to make you a new intro, and it can out pretty cool! :D
Kaotic Phoenix I didn't make this one, though haha
Spirit Of The Law No, I read that someone in the comment section wanted to make you one and I'm pretty sure it wasMrFoo, either way great vid I wanted you to do the Indians overview since I don't have Forgotten Empires yet :P
Spirit Of The Law What would happen if (Indian) camels would not be weak to building fire (or Heated Shot), taking similar damage as knights would - surely this would make them an option.
Spirit Of The Law
The Indian theme is pretty good infact it's one of the best.
The worst would be the Byzantine so depressing
One think I don't understand is how Indians can eat cows in game because they are worshipped in India
The rise of the rajas update should of given Indians battle elephants and a upgrade that gives elephant units 50 extra hp
I live for your deadpan delivery of explaining why camels are boats.
well done spirit, really great vid
no more questions left on indians :)
I'd subscribe again only for the new intro, that's amazing!
There is another small difference between Elephant Archers/Warwagons and a generic Heavy Cavalry Archer. While a heavy cav archer does 1 Dmg against buildings (Saracens are the exception) Elite Elephant Archers do 4 Dmg and Elite Warwagons do 5 Dmg, so they not only have a lower turnover but an equally sized army is much more dangerous to buildings (even if its nothing compared to Infantry or heavy Cavalry)
4:45 Wow that looks like such a peaceful village.
keep in mind that when the gunmen shoot farther their accuracy gets even worse and it is already quite bad at full range
Camels are called "Ships of the Desert"
Ship=Boat
So, Camel=Boat
Maybe the best explanation for why camels are classified as boats is that camels function as a way to transport goods in deserts and ships can transport goods across the oceans. Well this will make sense if AOE has camels carrying trade carts
You should put chemistry when you test siege and archerI consider the archer elephant as a mobile tower, in battle its use is very circumstantial
Hey I live in India and I don't see a lot of camels roaming around. We have a lot more horses than camels. But we have an abundance of cows. Cow Archer would be an interesting addition to the age of empires I think.
@18:16. Camels are called Ship of the desert. No need to forcefully make LHS = RHS.
the camel logic is flawless, Spirit :D
Hmm... I concur. Those theories at 18:18 was quite good. But im yet to be convinced. -_-
Hey Spirit Of The Law I wanna ask u 2 questions
1.) Check for gold production if U have Spanish and Aztecs as allies
2.) Most Important in a 1 v 1 Saracens Camels group vs 1 v 1 Imperial Camels what is the impact?
As per your ratings I see Indians as a weak Civilization, but I find them Flexible Civ just like Byzantine. However, ur calculations are way better than mine.
TheRedBaron Their gold production would be off the charts with Spanish and Aztec allies haha.
Are you asking about Saracen mamelukes vs imperial camels? I feel like I'm misreading the second question.
If I can put it this way,I wouldn't trust myself playing Indians in a ranked game at this point, but I'd definitely use them in an unranked fun game just to mix things up. I think the comparison with the Byzantines makes sense, although there's something a bit more scrappy about the Byzantines and their cheap trash that I love :) It's too bad they already used up a cheaper camel civ bonus on Byz, because that probably would have been nice for the Indians. -25% or -33% cost would make Indians really competitive in the Castle age, I think.
Funny that the Elephant Archers are the very definition of the term "White Elephant."
I would love to see an overview on the incredibly underplayed Chinese, please. Waiting on that promised Saracen one as well.
Tarquinus88 did I promise Saracens? All of them will appear at some point :)
I was so hyped when you said Franks might be next... could you please do that now?
As Spanish, Conquistadors + paladins and bombards combo good vs. indians. I used a good amount of skirmishers too.
I'm from the future, and indian become to triple south asian civ.
Elephant Archers work like moving castles if you can mass 'em up :) so alone quite useless but they become like ranged bulldozers when massed
The war elephant is a mobile feudal age tower.
A+ for explaining why Camels are in fact boats.
Man, I was expecting a reference to HL3 when you talk about camels xD
Elephant : Trumpets
Monk : Jesus is the only way...
Elephant : Changes religion and becomes a believer. 😂😂
Indian Monk : Aum...
Elephant : Becomes Hindu...
In all of AOE2, converting elephants always makes me laugh.
For what it's worth, knights get a seemingly unintended +2 damage to elephant archers. This is because the knight line has a +0 anti-archer bonus, so that it can be modified into +2 by the Persian team bonus, while the elephant archer has -2 armour against anti-archer attacks, which is presumably intended as a skirmisher buff. Persians' and their teammates' knights, naturally, get to double down on this and do +4.
Holy shit.
Elephant Archers suck.
They shouldn't have negative archer armor.
*SIGH*
Yikes. Even the war wagon can say that it has a true purpose in battle. Who would want to pay so much for an arbalests job? And Indians do get arbalest so ... what is the point?
I have found that the elephant archers only really work for me in two scenarios.
-firstly, on masse. If you are able to successfully boom up and get enough castles and importantly TIME to get a critical mass of these bad boys, not even siege onagers can stop them, unless with superb micro or the right civ with bonuses accordingly. In 1&1 games, not a recommend strategy for obvious reasons. You would be dead befell you got enough of them out. In team games however, if you are luckily the pocket as Indians, this can be a incredibly powerful army that can potentially win you the game.
-secondly. I found that when playing with Indians 1&1, mixing elephant archers through a ranged ball of units, crossbows, skirts, they compliment the units around them well soaking up so much dmg, especially against comparative ra get army's. This is interesting as it gives a 'tanks edge' to an otherwise weak army comp. onagers will kill the rest of your army but allowing the ele archers ( character limit)
To take the damage while you micro the rest of your army can work quite well. Of course it is best to have some from of infantry shield at the front as with and ranged army but this army Como, with the intermittent ele archer is a fun one to play around with
+Oscar Black true true
Exactly! Same role as the Korean War wagon. It is a weird unit, doesn't have a super obvious niche in combat, but is very useful when utilized properly. If you boom right and build a huge army, by mixing in about a dozen or more Indian elephants it makes your army nearly impossible to stop. They just soak up so much damage that it is nearly impossible to defeat them.
Were you on mobile? PC comments don't have character limit
Attila The Anti-Revisionist
Except that why would you want a slow, expensive archer that barely outdamages an arbalest and has lesser range? Did you play test them against some cavalry where they came out on top? Even the war wagon has a decent movement speed and hits harder than the elephant archer.
People whine about the war elephant being too easy to counter and too expensive, but they don't realise that war elephant kills most things at melee even when outnumbered. It makes sense that it is super expensive. It has super hp, one of the highest base attack among UUs, and great armor rating. War elephants soaking up damage is helpful because it means they can outlast their counters and, you want to kill them quick, because which unit wants to take 20+4 damage in the face(not even FU pallies want to directly engae with these guys) while elephant is taking more than 100+ damage from 3 halbs at a time.
Since this video they've had 2 buffs. No longer are in boat category. +1 pierce armor.
lol..Says "Indians" and middle east Arabic music plays in background
Man what can you expect from firangis
mughal empire
whats the difference
That's the music that plays when you pick the civilization within the game. Spirit of the law did not make the music choice. All the music within this vid is in-game music.
@@Goomberdups the difference is...Middle east arabic people are middle east arabic people....not indians..get it?
Yes Indian civilization in my all time fav game...AOE II DE is 😍😍😍😍🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I'm pleased to see the Indian civilization in AOE2, at the same time I'm kind of disappointed to see it in an expansion way behind Age of Kings and The Conquerors. and the title is quite misleading, "The Forgotten Empires", if they were forgotten, we wouldn't remember. Better rename the title as "The unforgotten empires" because if so, we wouldn't know them.
i like to use elephant archers in a way similar to normal ones
as a supporting unit getting some hits in on the enemies in the front who are fighting my melee units
the point is that elephant archers are super tanky compared to foot archers and wich a bunch of monks healing them it can be very hard for the opponent to break the stalemate unless he uses super high range stuff like cannons
Elephant Archers should be able to dual attack with separate targeting. At least defensive melee from the elephant while the archer should be able to free target. They are so underpowered as is.
Forgot to mention that European horses where ineffective against camels because apparently they flipped shit over the smell
+AdrianPwn805 That's represented in the game with the cavalry damage bonus.
Kenneth Dinkleburg oh ok sorry its been like 7 years since i played. I hope to get the game again
tho, Sultans doesn't cost gold to get! A castle and the goldless price of the tech, while the aztecs need at least one monk, and Spanish trade carts cost 50 gold each
Hey Spirit, what do you think about Camels becoming an independent unit, not classified as boats any longer? Now with their atrocious raiding fixed they *have* technically fixed their biggest flaw.
Fun fact, germans do call camels "Wüstenschiffe"(translates to desert ships) because you can get seasick riding them, so maybe aoe2 was unto something here
Since you brought war wagons, I'd really like to see Korean civ review, especially because of better onagers you really like to use.
Keep on putting your jokes in vids, I love it!!! :D
What grades would you give the Indians after the African Kingdoms changes?
i like that intro man
Camel reminds me off that one cheat on age of empires 1 that allows ship on land
I don't know why I was expecting a HL3 joke
It's weird that Indians have no battle elephants
The Indians' main strength was historically -- elephant cavalry, infantry, archers, skirmishers. There was also something called a mace that could deal heavy damage to buildings and people -- a mace warrior? In antiquity there are plenty of tales of old chariot warriors -- that would have been interesting -- lots of HP, speed, range and the option to go on foot if the chariot broke. They didn't have that heavy cavalry and I think camels aren't that strong.
Except for the South Indians, their Navy was really weak or non-existent and they had very limited artillery. The South Indians had a powerful navy and went as far as Indonesia and Cambodia. But other than the naval weakness of the North Indian kingdoms, they made good researchers.
Do they get crop rotation?
By the way, why this theme selection for the Indians?
srinitaaigaura Wow, you've probably never heard of the Chola empire, which had the strongest navy of Asia at the time. Don't comment about stuff you don't know about.
Nikhil Krishnan
Yeah. The Chola empire had their influence extended until Indonesia, Thailand, Cambodia, Malaysia.
Both of you read his comment. He said EXCEPT for south india.
@@JJ-fn2xj Not sure if OP was referring to the geographical limits or "North Indian" kingdoms. The former doesn't make much sense - it's hard to have a navy when there's no ocean around. That's like saving that the Persians didn't really have a great navy in Bactria - technically true but it's landlocked so that's quite expected. South India is a peninsula - water on three sides - while North India really doesn't have much exposure to the oceans. However, Indian empires seldom adhered to these North-South boundaries and had navies in the South. Smaller kingdoms in the North would've only had water for either riverine warfare or in areas like Bengal, Sindh and Gujarat, depending on which kingdom you're looking at. On the other hand, pan Indian empires, like the Cholas whose influence extended from South India to parts of North India, had a powerful navy.
@@chronikhiles Dude, I currently LIVE here. I know what I am talking about. Yes the Cholas had a powerful navy and should actually be a separate civ unto themselves. India is a diverse country and needs more than one civilization to properly represent it. Actually I would have liked it if like the Trebuchet, the Indian elephant could switch between archery attack to melee attack. The Perisan war elephants came from India. Also the steel used in European Swords came from South India too. I also would have added a "cash crop" Tech to the Indian economy, this country was among the richest in the world during the medieval period.
why do war wagons only take 4 damag if they have the same armor class weaknesses as the elephant archer?
So this was the first Intro
These overviews are so awesome!
Could you please do an overview of the Koreans please! :)
There is no Chola Empire in aoe2 de? Shame
I would have liked to have seen Elephant Archers vs Calvary Archers, to see who would win.
If the Elephants are better, then maybe they are a good counter to the Huns. Have camels to fight paladins and elephants to fight cav archers?
David Wolf I imagine elite elephant archers would win easily against heavy cav archers because of the pierce armour, but a Hun player would be crazy to take that fight, and could avoid the elephants without too much trouble. Cav archers probably come out on the field in early castle age and disappear before the elephant archers are out, though
Still might be a good way to keep calvary archers at bay (if they are still in play). Keep them around vulnerable eco, to prevent raiding and use them as a deterrent. Skirmishers can manage the same thing though, i suppose. I'm just trying to find a use for them! lol
David Wolf The Huns are a rather bad late game civ. They are only used so much, because of their early game bonuses, so when the indian bonus against them comes into play, most civs shouldn't have that much of a difficulty dealing with the huns!
David Wolf elephant archers suck, that is all.