John, keep it up! You got put on a LOT of people's radar recently - there's no better time to drop consistent, current videos. Grateful to have been exposed to you.
Brilliant. More confirmation of and convergence with my own experiences and reflections on psychedelics and meditation, especially around insight, flow and movement (which I've also written about). Can't wait to read your book Aidan!
Transformations are not representations - You've just given me a whole new art project to work on John, thank you. Fascinating conversation, thank you both
I really enjoyed this conversation it was wonderful to see the convergence of ideas. Thanks so much for doing this publicly so that we viewers could learn from you both.
It’s not just the mic, the audio levels on both ends also don’t match up; Aidan is way louder and with a dialogos like this we can’t turn up and off the volume all the time ;) A better mic would also be a great addition!
Thank you John and Aiden 🙏. Amazing convergence and discussion of that convergence. What you two get onto in the last 15mins was golden and such a natural crescendo, I felt. And I was thinking "I bet Zevi is here loving this" and boom, then you mentioned it! Cannot wait for that to happen. Thank you so much! [I wrote a big explication of my crazy maths based metaphysical view that reality has to be like this because numbers (maths) are real. I obviously know now from John's work that that's a kind of Platonism. But it was just indulgence. Even this bracketed section is an indulgence. My apologies 🤲. 'spose I'm hopin' someone just has fun with this and pokes me on it] It was endearing to see what I perceived to be you two academics skirting around calling it the big boy metaphysics it was. Far too big for my feet at least. Giant stuff :) thank you, again 🙏.
I’m definitely biased here, but I think many cyclists experience cycling as a meditative movement practice. Interesting too, in Grand Tour professional cycling, a sprinter when interviewed after c.200km stage with sprint finish, will often be able to recite every little move than happened in the last 10 seconds with precise accuracy.
I think this is a great point, and in my estimation should apply to most high-level athletic practices even beyond cycling! Humans are always tryna access transcendance somehow ✨
God this line of thought is just so much more interesting and I think consequential than psychedelics help With x mental Health condition. It’s actually getting to why they help and it has massive implications for Culture.
I’d like to hear how this can be mapped onto the indigenous ontology of people who traditionally use psychedelics. I think the salience landscape is somewhat different. And it has become very confusing for westerners seeking understanding within indigenous contexts where they don’t share the meaning making machinery. 🙏🏽❤️
1:31:15 The transfer function becomes the driving function. Look; i'm sorry i took Control Systems, ok? Y'all say "jolt" or "shock" a system; you mean, present a delta or gamma function. Presumably, transformation is a step fumction. Sorry, geez.
psychedelic experience what about calling it: "the cloud connecting experience" because it feels like: 2 or more clouds of understanding (the brain is a net, right?) connect. and all the "commons" between the clouds emerge.
Self is an ontological fact; it is a living body, a soul. Ego evolved because we are gregarious animals and we need to know our place; it's likely there is a space for ego like there is for language. Personal identity is an illusion: it's not a delusion, it's an illusion that comes from the memory set addressed by the driving function. Change the driving function and you have a different memory set.
Extracellular electrotonic wave dynamics. Grey matter neural branchlets are viscerally connected to the extracellular electrotonic environment. Is that ineffable? Pretty ineffable.
We enter into the Entirety and the material dimension as into a womb, actualizing the divine potential of the Living Father through the Divine Mother - conceived and growing in her until our gestation is complete and we are born to the Pleroma of Light, reborn of the Mother Spirit into union with God and Godhead.
What bothers me about these conversations is that there is a whole religious tradition that operates exclusively in the spaces that these two are talking about. A tradition that has worked out a lot of the questions being brought up here, but it is primarily Spanish speaking so it is under or unrepresented in these conversations. I would love for john to speak to an actual practitioner of a shamanic tradition as opposed to a European or North American
With all due respect, I’ve talked to many English-speaking shamans, and I’d lay money these two gentlemen have spoken to a few also. So please just throw out a few names or perhaps traditions that we can investigate. There is no reason to make implicit political accusations. ?Verdad?
No political accusation intended. Just an overly brief comment during my lunch break at work. I'm legitimately interested in seeing conversation happen between thinkers like Vervaeke and spiritual leaders like those who I sit with in Colombia and Mexico. I worry that the western psychedelic movement is trying to reinvent the wheel around how to use these medicines safely and in a way that achieves the utmost leverage for personal growth and development. I listen to podcasts like these and hear questions being asked that my teachers in the south have 1000+ year old traditional answers to. I would love to see john speak with a inga elder or Mexican Maricami about the ritual use of psychedelics, the same way he has spoken to Zevi Slavin about Jewish Mysticism, or Johnathan Pageau about Christian symbolism. Look my critique is purely out of love of John's work, as well as recognition of its critical importance. In fact I would say that it is as important as the work my ceremonial family does to preserve the indigenous teachings of both north and south America. That's why I want to see that conversation happen.
@@renegadegardener How can you say there is no political accusation intended? Your comment says “what bothers you about these conversations” is that there are traditions that are “unrepresented”. If your aim was to sincerely ask Dr. Vervaeke allocate some of the time he has been generously giving toward speaking with someone from this tradition, why not ask him politely, instead of bending over backwards to make it an issue of cultural insensitivity, when it’s not? 1. The topic is philosophy, not “a survey of psychedelic drug use in cultures around the world”. They are talking about book. Exactly what kind if “representation” is lacking on that topic that you are so disturbed not to see? 2. De. Vervaeke is the most culturally respectful public intellectual in the world. He has demonstrated openness and sensitivity to all cultures. 3. The “representation” you are demanding doesn’t even make sense. As an expert in cross cultural indigeounous Shamanism, you must be aware that the term is overloaded and it would be difficult to even count the traditions and ways in which they vary. They are not even remotely homogeneous. To “represent” them all would require a whole separate TH-cam channel. Will you still be so “bothered” if the only one that gets reoresented is the one to which you belong? 4. Dr. Vervaeke did not hunt down the participants you mentioned above. They have been generous anough to volunteer their time in the same way that he is. If you really have access to an authentic indigeounous Shaman who would be interested in these cognitive science related tooics and willing to share in these conversations PLEASE make the introductions. At the very least, add his contact her, and links to ANY genuine authentic material in ANY format would be amazing.
How one likes their infinity served is a matter of taste, really. Being a Quetzalero from Costa Rica I savor the intercivilzational dialogue, hybridity, and novelty that passes through Snake Island. There is a delicious intersectionality happening between North and South America that forwards superlative well being.:)
I second the motion that we buy John a decent mic. I don’t want to miss a word! 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Came here to say this.
Now I remember John actually used a mic in "awakening ..." series. I dont know what happened to it.
Shall we do some crowdfunding to get John a proper mic?
Watching these videos is a psychedelic experience!
My mind is revealed in all it's mundanity and profundity.
Thanks!
John, keep it up! You got put on a LOT of people's radar recently - there's no better time to drop consistent, current videos. Grateful to have been exposed to you.
Brilliant. More confirmation of and convergence with my own experiences and reflections on psychedelics and meditation, especially around insight, flow and movement (which I've also written about). Can't wait to read your book Aidan!
Great conversation! Thank you, John, for bringing Aidan on and introducing us to such an interesting thinker. I can't wait to read his book.
Excellent. Wise. Fresh. Thank you both for this dialogue.
Transformations are not representations - You've just given me a whole new art project to work on John, thank you. Fascinating conversation, thank you both
Good to hear from you Josh!
I really enjoyed this conversation it was wonderful to see the convergence of ideas. Thanks so much for doing this publicly so that we viewers could learn from you both.
Thanks Aidan and John!
Thanks Lee.
This is awesome!!! Can’t wait for the book!
Pity I can mark this video with like only once 👍👍👍
It’s not just the mic, the audio levels on both ends also don’t match up; Aidan is way louder and with a dialogos like this we can’t turn up and off the volume all the time ;)
A better mic would also be a great addition!
Thank you John and Aiden 🙏. Amazing convergence and discussion of that convergence. What you two get onto in the last 15mins was golden and such a natural crescendo, I felt. And I was thinking "I bet Zevi is here loving this" and boom, then you mentioned it! Cannot wait for that to happen.
Thank you so much!
[I wrote a big explication of my crazy maths based metaphysical view that reality has to be like this because numbers (maths) are real. I obviously know now from John's work that that's a kind of Platonism. But it was just indulgence. Even this bracketed section is an indulgence. My apologies 🤲. 'spose I'm hopin' someone just has fun with this and pokes me on it]
It was endearing to see what I perceived to be you two academics skirting around calling it the big boy metaphysics it was. Far too big for my feet at least. Giant stuff :) thank you, again 🙏.
Yes,yes,yes talk with Zebi (sp?) on Seekers of Unity. Yes , please
"Phenomenological touchstone" is a fantastic term
I’m definitely biased here, but I think many cyclists experience cycling as a meditative movement practice. Interesting too, in Grand Tour professional cycling, a sprinter when interviewed after c.200km stage with sprint finish, will often be able to recite every little move than happened in the last 10 seconds with precise accuracy.
I think this is a great point, and in my estimation should apply to most high-level athletic practices even beyond cycling! Humans are always tryna access transcendance somehow ✨
This is exciting. Thank you fellas.
"...the bullshit cycle..." I like it. Is the remedy based on the phrase "cut through the crap"?
God this line of thought is just so much more interesting and I think consequential than psychedelics help
With x mental
Health condition. It’s actually getting to why they help and it has massive implications for
Culture.
I’d like to hear how this can be mapped onto the indigenous ontology of people who traditionally use psychedelics. I think the salience landscape is somewhat different. And it has become very confusing for westerners seeking understanding within indigenous contexts where they don’t share the meaning making machinery. 🙏🏽❤️
John when is your birthday? We gotta get you a mic as a present.
1:31:15 The transfer function becomes the driving function. Look; i'm sorry i took Control Systems, ok? Y'all say "jolt" or "shock" a system; you mean, present a delta or gamma function. Presumably, transformation is a step fumction. Sorry, geez.
psychedelic experience
what about calling it: "the cloud connecting experience"
because it feels like:
2 or more clouds of understanding (the brain is a net, right?) connect.
and all the "commons" between the clouds emerge.
Zevi and Aidan 🙏
Self is an ontological fact; it is a living body, a soul. Ego evolved because we are gregarious animals and we need to know our place; it's likely there is a space for ego like there is for language. Personal identity is an illusion: it's not a delusion, it's an illusion that comes from the memory set addressed by the driving function. Change the driving function and you have a different memory set.
Extracellular electrotonic wave dynamics. Grey matter neural branchlets are viscerally connected to the extracellular electrotonic environment. Is that ineffable? Pretty ineffable.
Improve the quality of your mic and this content will become legendary.
We enter into the Entirety and the material dimension as into a womb, actualizing the divine potential of the Living Father through the Divine Mother - conceived and growing in her until our gestation is complete and we are born to the Pleroma of Light, reborn of the Mother Spirit into union with God and Godhead.
not so much incompressible as recursively generative? Just a thought.
John please buy a mic. There are even these nice headphones on Amazon that have microphones built into them
John please please please new Microphone. It's very screechy and uncomfortable to listen to. Amazing conversation btw.
somehow he sounds like he copied a lot from John
What bothers me about these conversations is that there is a whole religious tradition that operates exclusively in the spaces that these two are talking about. A tradition that has worked out a lot of the questions being brought up here, but it is primarily Spanish speaking so it is under or unrepresented in these conversations. I would love for john to speak to an actual practitioner of a shamanic tradition as opposed to a European or North American
With all due respect, I’ve talked to many English-speaking shamans, and I’d lay money these two gentlemen have spoken to a few also. So please just throw out a few names or perhaps traditions that we can investigate. There is no reason to make implicit political accusations. ?Verdad?
What's that called?
No political accusation intended. Just an overly brief comment during my lunch break at work. I'm legitimately interested in seeing conversation happen between thinkers like Vervaeke and spiritual leaders like those who I sit with in Colombia and Mexico. I worry that the western psychedelic movement is trying to reinvent the wheel around how to use these medicines safely and in a way that achieves the utmost leverage for personal growth and development. I listen to podcasts like these and hear questions being asked that my teachers in the south have 1000+ year old traditional answers to. I would love to see john speak with a inga elder or Mexican Maricami about the ritual use of psychedelics, the same way he has spoken to Zevi Slavin about Jewish Mysticism, or Johnathan Pageau about Christian symbolism. Look my critique is purely out of love of John's work, as well as recognition of its critical importance. In fact I would say that it is as important as the work my ceremonial family does to preserve the indigenous teachings of both north and south America. That's why I want to see that conversation happen.
@@renegadegardener How can you say there is no political accusation intended? Your comment says “what bothers you about these conversations” is that there are traditions that are “unrepresented”. If your aim was to sincerely ask Dr. Vervaeke allocate some of the time he has been generously giving toward speaking with someone from this tradition, why not ask him politely, instead of bending over backwards to make it an issue of cultural insensitivity, when it’s not?
1. The topic is philosophy, not “a survey of psychedelic drug use in cultures around the world”. They are talking about book. Exactly what kind if “representation” is lacking on that topic that you are so disturbed not to see?
2. De. Vervaeke is the most culturally respectful public intellectual in the world. He has demonstrated openness and sensitivity to all cultures.
3. The “representation” you are demanding doesn’t even make sense. As an expert in cross cultural indigeounous Shamanism, you must be aware that the term is overloaded and it would be difficult to even count the traditions and ways in which they vary. They are not even remotely homogeneous. To “represent” them all would require a whole separate TH-cam channel. Will you still be so “bothered” if the only one that gets reoresented is the one to which you belong?
4. Dr. Vervaeke did not hunt down the participants you mentioned above. They have been generous anough to volunteer their time in the same way that he is. If you really have access to an authentic indigeounous Shaman who would be interested in these cognitive science related tooics and willing to share in these conversations PLEASE make the introductions. At the very least, add his contact her, and links to ANY genuine authentic material in ANY format would be amazing.
How one likes their infinity served is a matter of taste, really. Being a Quetzalero from Costa Rica I savor the intercivilzational dialogue, hybridity, and novelty that passes through Snake Island. There is a delicious intersectionality happening between North and South America that forwards superlative well being.:)