This old relay logic is awesome to see, things were so much harder to make in those days. Now all that relay logic could be implemented inside a one Euro microcontroller.
More like a twenty Euro microcontroller with programmable logic and a watchdog, well it is an elevator. And you have 1 microcontroller per floor, for the LED display and call button, and the same in the lift also. No doubt the silicon based logic is easier to design and construct, less interesting to watch than brass contacts and copper coils.
I love big clanky relay boxes. I put in oversized contactors to run lighting and pumps in my house. People find it annoying all of a sudden some big contactor pulls in and the GE ones buzz while they are energized to give the big boyz electrical system sound.
Most of old Soviet relay-controlled elevators installed in the 9 floors apartment buildings has mechanical selector system in the shaft. The mechanical levers switch directli by the lift car in the shaft. This switches choose a direction of moving and cut off the power of the floor relays, lift slowed down and moving untill the stop sensor turn off the low speed than the elevator stops on the floor level. This switches makes speciffic sound when the lift moves and you can count the floors.
I like this motor, it makes such a nice sound. I am excited about the how it works video, as i would really like to know, how these special relays work.
You can still get the DYMO punch labellers if you look hard enough ;) Its your channel, your content. You decide what's best and keep on going. :) It really is amazing how they were built to last back in the day and they still keep ticking ;)
I remember receiving a DYMO labeller (just like the ones that I showed in the video) from Father Christmas from a hall in Bracknell when I was about 7 or 8 years old! I've done nearly all motor rooms that I can think of now, but I'm sure that there are more old ones to explore. As time passes, they become rarer and rarer and even this one will be gone shortly. Thanks for the comment.
nice panel, fairly typical automatic machine construction of the time. But a devil to fault-find especially if it develops an intermittent fault. I'm guessing the floor selector mech uses either impulse relays (one pulse set on, one pulse reset off) or dual coil remanence relays. It's how I would do it back then.
I know this video is quite old but I've been wondering. Did Bennie Lifts had a relationship with the Express Lift back then? I've been watching several Bennie lift videos on TH-cam and I noticed some of them had Express Lift "traits" like the anti vandal button, nameplates on the back wall that look just like Express Lift, etc.
Ah yes, the old latching relay trick, eh... might have known! Excellent video, that room is like a little shrine to lift rooms, with the gleaming conduit, the schematics, dust free wiring! I would never have guessed that equipment dates back to 1975, overall it has a much more modern look and feel, with the wiring being so well enclosed, and the compact relays, etc. Wonder was there a refurb in the interim. Was the surface of the brake wheel scored to improve grip?
About the brakes, yes this looks very likely. Latching relays on their own would not make a good floor selector as if the power failed they would turn off. Relays turn off when depowered, I'm not going to say too much more as my full explanation is for a future vid ;) Very interesting to see how different manufacturers design their own systems
Modern lifts do something different, which I think is interesting in and of itself. When power is regained, the lift might not know where it is. And even if it does, it will probably still do this so it can check that everything is ok, and what the sensors find match the programming. It will start blindly running, at levelling speed, either up or down, until it hits the limit switches in the top or bottom of the shaft. It will then change direction, running at levelling speed again, until it hits the other limit switches. It now knows where it is again, and on the way it probably would have been checking the levelling tape as well. If you’re ever in a lift after a power failure and it starts moving up and down by itself, this is what it’s doing. Just let it do it’s thing, once it’s learned where it is again, it will go back into normal operation. My background is in IT, modern lifts are interesting to me, but for different reasons. There’s a lot of subtlety going on behind the scenes, a lot of complex feedback loops and relationships that make up the safety string, that sort of thing.
This video is great! Thanks for posting it Matt! I'm wondering what that jack on the front of the cab labeled Telephone is for? I'm thinking it connected to the phone in the car to speak to users if they became trapped maybe? On the London '01' number @ 8:22. All London numbers use to start with 01 with the rest of the country using 02, 03, 04 etc. That was up to 1990 where London numbers then became 071 for inner and 081 outer London due to increased demand and available numbers running out. In 1995 as part of BTs PhONEday, '1' was also added to all STD codes, so London became 0171 and 0181. All other regions became 012, 013, 014 etc. Then in 2000, London numbers changed again to their current 0207 (inner) 0208 (outer) format.
Satters Thanks :) Yeah, fascinating systems and designs from various manufacturers - how they made "logic" using relays and mechanical equipment (before the microprocessors ruled the land)
mrmattandmrchay I maintain & fault, relay logic for safety critical applications in railway signalling, and love it, you can see the circuit, unlike electronics, do you have photographs of all the diagrams in this motor room? I'd love to study the circuits,
+Simon Tay nope! As soon as I mention something like this then another editing project pops up. To do this in the way that I want will take at least a month (in my spare time) so not sure when I will get around to it I'm afraid. Most of my HDD is filled with editing material!
Amazing that all this intensive relay logic, can be replaced by a PLU(programmable logic unit) about the size of a small block of cheese these days. But these old relay logic units were beautiful creations, and a testament to just how reliable they were, that so many of them existed for so long. This beast seems to have a pretty abrupt and harsh stopping system - once it thinks it is level with the floor landing, it seems to just clamp on the brake - no slow-down of any kind? Must make for a rather unpleasant start/stop process!
VauxhallViva1975 This was called "crash leveling". Nowadays the motor is driven to a stop before the brake is applied. Old lifts the brake had to be adjusted to the right tension so the lift stopped in the right place. But this just adds character to the lift even if it feels abrupt when stopping. The design of some of these lifts is fascinating and how each manufacturer managed to design a completely automatic lift controller using just relays and capacitor timers - the old generation of lifts had character. Modern lifts have circuit boards, prefer to watch the old stuff in action :)
mrmattandmrchay Yes, indeed, the old lifts were monsters, but they were beautiful monsters. Relay-logic lifts are fascinating to watch, and they made some really complex ones out of relays and one hell of a lot of interconnecting wires - thing of beauty. It saddens me that so many of these have been modernized. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" was something we used to hear, but now it seems to be a case of "If it's still working, modernize it.". Thanks for the info on crash-levelling - I had not heard of that before.
Bummer. Well, thanks for trying :-) I'll just have to design my own logic circuitry using relays as if I was starting my own elevator company in the 1970s. Maybe it'll be more fun that way :-p
Love this video. Came across it by chance, but wanted to tell you that you can send large files by logging on at wetransfer.com - it's free and you can send files up to 2GB. I've been using it for years. WeTransfer is simple to use, professional and very reliable, plus very important: they respect privacy. Cheers.
yup! Most lifts with motor rooms (i.e. not modern lifts called MRLs (motor room less)) had an elevated platform where the motor and gear box were fixed. Hope you found video interesting. Never did explain the 'ladder relay' system using odd and even triggers (yeah I know you're thinking WTF?! haha)
I guess that marryatt and scott were specialised in making their own motors, where other companies did not have a manfacturing facility for making them. Just an educated guess, but I can find out for sure if you're interested?
The trap door is a secondary entrance from the rear stairwell - ladders required. So if you cannot access via the normal door, this is another option. Only older lifts have this though.
+ostkkfmhtsh012345678 I really don't understand about replying to a 'linked comment' but I can't, and I cannot even tag you into this message. Anyway, I sent you PM and reply is here also for everyone else's benefit... I have so many videos to edit at the moment (nearly 20), so % complete?.... Well I've done about 30 diagrams for this Bennie video part 2, but this is going to be a BIG VIDEO with loads of diagrams an explanations - it's going to take a long time to do (other videos of this length can take 3 months, as I can only do them in my spare time, and I don't get much spare time!). So % complete, about 10% and no plans to start it yet. I need to get a football video done for Chay's football club which I filmed for the kids before Christmas, then I'll do a couple of siren videos (some of these I filmed in 2013!!) before I think about a "big/3 month to complete" video - which is the one you are talking about. Thanks for your interest and good luck with the lego elevator :)
That floor selector system is interessting. It's very compact and novel. I wonder, do these floor selector relays keep their position when the power fails?
th-cam.com/video/QtXHQAltdyw/w-d-xo.htmlm1s There is this, which is the "start" of what I was intending to do. But it's on a long list of videos that I need to edit.
This was just my way of making a personal record of my achievements as my videos were uploaded. When I uploaded this one my total video views reached 2M. But I agree with your comment and will remove that part. Thanks for the message :)
some times email don't work. anyway in short I am an urban explore and I get around any thing that's been abandoned and the like. sometimes on my explores I find old lifts to mooter rooms etc. now they are of not much interest to me so I don't film them. but I know you maybe interested. so what I can do when I find the above is to make a video of it for you. I don't mind doing that as for my to get into a billding is very good but maybe not for you but I may find a lift so can film it for you. I can then do this in two ways make the video put it on my channel or send you the clips for youre channel. I have to old lifts I found latlay and I'm going back to the place so can film it for you
This old relay logic is awesome to see, things were so much harder to make in those days. Now all that relay logic could be implemented inside a one Euro microcontroller.
Yep, relay technology is what keeps the mrmattandmrchay channel running LOL, love watching mechanic electronic stuff working.
More like a twenty Euro microcontroller with programmable logic and a watchdog, well it is an elevator.
And you have 1 microcontroller per floor, for the LED display and call button, and the same in the lift also.
No doubt the silicon based logic is easier to design and construct, less interesting to watch than brass contacts and copper coils.
Your videos are real masterpieces of editing, i can understand why you put that much time into them before uploading! I always enjoy watching them.
Thank you very much! I have one coming up that could be the oldest lift on youtube with original motor room. Try and guess how old?
+mrmattandmrchay let me guess, it's from 1920, right?
1906!!! What a find!!
+mrmattandmrchay wow! that's really old! I can't wait to see it.
I love big clanky relay boxes. I put in oversized contactors to run lighting and pumps in my house. People find it annoying all of a sudden some big contactor pulls in and the GE ones buzz while they are energized to give the big boyz electrical system sound.
Now this is one of my favourite Videos. Absolutely amazing !!!!!!!
+Lucky Bulb ah thanks very much! I STILL have to do the video about those special relays (it's on my long list ;)
Oh I remember that one from that video where it stopped below the floor it seemed to be working well the 2nd time
Most of old Soviet relay-controlled elevators installed in the 9 floors apartment buildings has mechanical selector system in the shaft. The mechanical levers switch directli by the lift car in the shaft. This switches
choose a direction of moving and cut off the power of the floor relays, lift slowed down and moving untill the stop sensor turn off the low speed than the elevator stops on the floor level. This switches makes speciffic sound when the lift moves and you can count the floors.
How much is the "how it works" video complete? 75%? 90%? 25%?
Great video, very interesting.
RODALCO2007 Thanks! I'm still waiting to do a follow up video to this of how those relays work (I have one!), it's on the list!
We had some trouble with miniature latching relays at work - if you whack them just a little, they can latch on to the other position.
Well don't do that!
@@KC9UDX Yeah. Tell that to the lift brake.
Note the Asbestos contactor flash shields,And brakelinings with the dreaded Asbestos.
Interesting comments, thanks.
Great video, as always! And love the schematics, did you take photos of it?
Hiya Randy - yes of course! I'm saving this for a future video - very interesting schematics!
I like this motor, it makes such a nice sound. I am excited about the how it works video, as i would really like to know, how these special relays work.
+FK Labs thanks for the comment. Perhaps one day I'll get around to it. I still have a few videos to edit but this is still on my list :)
You can still get the DYMO punch labellers if you look hard enough ;)
Its your channel, your content. You decide what's best and keep on going. :)
It really is amazing how they were built to last back in the day and they still keep ticking ;)
I remember receiving a DYMO labeller (just like the ones that I showed in the video) from Father Christmas from a hall in Bracknell when I was about 7 or 8 years old!
I've done nearly all motor rooms that I can think of now, but I'm sure that there are more old ones to explore. As time passes, they become rarer and rarer and even this one will be gone shortly. Thanks for the comment.
nice panel, fairly typical automatic machine construction of the time. But a devil to fault-find especially if it develops an intermittent fault. I'm guessing the floor selector mech uses either impulse relays (one pulse set on, one pulse reset off) or dual coil remanence relays. It's how I would do it back then.
I know this video is quite old but I've been wondering. Did Bennie Lifts had a relationship with the Express Lift back then? I've been watching several Bennie lift videos on TH-cam and I noticed some of them had Express Lift "traits" like the anti vandal button, nameplates on the back wall that look just like Express Lift, etc.
Ah yes, the old latching relay trick, eh... might have known! Excellent video, that room is like a little shrine to lift rooms, with the gleaming conduit, the schematics, dust free wiring! I would never have guessed that equipment dates back to 1975, overall it has a much more modern look and feel, with the wiring being so well enclosed, and the compact relays, etc. Wonder was there a refurb in the interim. Was the surface of the brake wheel scored to improve grip?
About the brakes, yes this looks very likely.
Latching relays on their own would not make a good floor selector as if the power failed they would turn off. Relays turn off when depowered, I'm not going to say too much more as my full explanation is for a future vid ;) Very interesting to see how different manufacturers design their own systems
mrmattandmrchay How about a relay that doesn't favour one state or the other?
Coolkeys2009 Even relays in this cabinet favour the OFF state, but the "special" ones here have something extra on them (I'll explain in the next vid)
Modern lifts do something different, which I think is interesting in and of itself. When power is regained, the lift might not know where it is. And even if it does, it will probably still do this so it can check that everything is ok, and what the sensors find match the programming. It will start blindly running, at levelling speed, either up or down, until it hits the limit switches in the top or bottom of the shaft. It will then change direction, running at levelling speed again, until it hits the other limit switches. It now knows where it is again, and on the way it probably would have been checking the levelling tape as well. If you’re ever in a lift after a power failure and it starts moving up and down by itself, this is what it’s doing. Just let it do it’s thing, once it’s learned where it is again, it will go back into normal operation.
My background is in IT, modern lifts are interesting to me, but for different reasons. There’s a lot of subtlety going on behind the scenes, a lot of complex feedback loops and relationships that make up the safety string, that sort of thing.
This video is great! Thanks for posting it Matt! I'm wondering what that jack on the front of the cab labeled Telephone is for? I'm thinking it connected to the phone in the car to speak to users if they became trapped maybe?
On the London '01' number @ 8:22. All London numbers use to start with 01 with the rest of the country using 02, 03, 04 etc. That was up to 1990 where London numbers then became 071 for inner and 081 outer London due to increased demand and available numbers running out. In 1995 as part of BTs PhONEday, '1' was also added to all STD codes, so London became 0171 and 0181. All other regions became 012, 013, 014 etc. Then in 2000, London numbers changed again to their current 0207 (inner) 0208 (outer) format.
Cool! What the name of the 'how it works' vid?
Marryat and Scott also had a basic automatic push button control for single lifts without a floor selector ( I still have a diagram).
thanks for this super vid, nice to see relay controls, shame relay logic isn't appreciated so much now,
Satters Thanks :) Yeah, fascinating systems and designs from various manufacturers - how they made "logic" using relays and mechanical equipment (before the microprocessors ruled the land)
mrmattandmrchay I maintain & fault, relay logic for safety critical applications in railway signalling, and love it, you can see the circuit, unlike electronics,
do you have photographs of all the diagrams in this motor room? I'd love to study the circuits,
When is the how it works video coming out?
200th like!! :) Congrats btw!!
This video is over a year old now. Did you ever do the video about how it works?
+Simon Tay nope! As soon as I mention something like this then another editing project pops up. To do this in the way that I want will take at least a month (in my spare time) so not sure when I will get around to it I'm afraid. Most of my HDD is filled with editing material!
what is the song at start of the vid?
This was a building in Camden Correct?
Amazing that all this intensive relay logic, can be replaced by a PLU(programmable logic unit) about the size of a small block of cheese these days. But these old relay logic units were beautiful creations, and a testament to just how reliable they were, that so many of them existed for so long. This beast seems to have a pretty abrupt and harsh stopping system - once it thinks it is level with the floor landing, it seems to just clamp on the brake - no slow-down of any kind? Must make for a rather unpleasant start/stop process!
VauxhallViva1975 This was called "crash leveling". Nowadays the motor is driven to a stop before the brake is applied. Old lifts the brake had to be adjusted to the right tension so the lift stopped in the right place. But this just adds character to the lift even if it feels abrupt when stopping.
The design of some of these lifts is fascinating and how each manufacturer managed to design a completely automatic lift controller using just relays and capacitor timers - the old generation of lifts had character. Modern lifts have circuit boards, prefer to watch the old stuff in action :)
mrmattandmrchay Yes, indeed, the old lifts were monsters, but they were beautiful monsters. Relay-logic lifts are fascinating to watch, and they made some really complex ones out of relays and one hell of a lot of interconnecting wires - thing of beauty. It saddens me that so many of these have been modernized. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" was something we used to hear, but now it seems to be a case of "If it's still working, modernize it.". Thanks for the info on crash-levelling - I had not heard of that before.
WOW Matt! Congrats on 2 million views, how did you get access to the motor room?
Hiya, thanks very much
Nice
I would love to have that wall-size wiring diagram at 11:00 as a PDF!
+Hungry Guy i have some photos of it. PM your email address and I'll send to you. They are not brilliant but good enough
Will do. Thanks!
Hmmmm.... zipped it's 100mb! I will need to find another way to transfer the files.
Bummer. Well, thanks for trying :-)
I'll just have to design my own logic circuitry using relays as if I was starting my own elevator company in the 1970s. Maybe it'll be more fun that way :-p
Love this video. Came across it by chance, but wanted to tell you that you can send large files by logging on at wetransfer.com - it's free and you can send files up to 2GB. I've been using it for years. WeTransfer is simple to use, professional and very reliable, plus very important: they respect privacy. Cheers.
Does the lift still exist
Probably not, but there are still a few other bennies around.
Is that hell-evator a slab of concrete with a literal tonne of metal wheels?
yup! Most lifts with motor rooms (i.e. not modern lifts called MRLs (motor room less)) had an elevated platform where the motor and gear box were fixed. Hope you found video interesting. Never did explain the 'ladder relay' system using odd and even triggers (yeah I know you're thinking WTF?! haha)
B-b-b-b-Bennie and the Liftsssssssss
Any old Bennie lift engineers watching,I was there in the days of Arthur Willis..
What is the Song name at the end?
+VEYRON 1990 This is Ambient Ambulance. Search for it in the youtube audio library. I use it a lot for my warning intros.
Thanks :)
How come the motor is made by marryatt and scott? Did they make motors for bennie in the 70's?
I guess that marryatt and scott were specialised in making their own motors, where other companies did not have a manfacturing facility for making them. Just an educated guess, but I can find out for sure if you're interested?
Different companies get the contract for the lift maintenance,Any repairs is done with their equipment,The Lift like this one ends up a Bitsa .
0:25
Why is there a trap door in the motor room
The trap door is a secondary entrance from the rear stairwell - ladders required. So if you cannot access via the normal door, this is another option. Only older lifts have this though.
It sounds like an older pinball machine. Probably has something to do with all those relays.
Clear case: this one is a traction lift/elevator.
Nice good mr matt and chay i,m anis
Cool...! Thanks for your comment :)
4:45 is that why you were 11 inches down a floor if this is right im a friggin genius!!!!!
I watched the video for more years ago
+ostkkfmhtsh012345678 I really don't understand about replying to a 'linked comment' but I can't, and I cannot even tag you into this message. Anyway, I sent you PM and reply is here also for everyone else's benefit...
I have so many videos to edit at the moment (nearly 20), so % complete?.... Well I've done about 30 diagrams for this Bennie video part 2, but this is going to be a BIG VIDEO with loads of diagrams an explanations - it's going to take a long time to do (other videos of this length can take 3 months, as I can only do them in my spare time, and I don't get much spare time!). So % complete, about 10% and no plans to start it yet.
I need to get a football video done for Chay's football club which I filmed for the kids before Christmas, then I'll do a couple of siren videos (some of these I filmed in 2013!!) before I think about a "big/3 month to complete" video - which is the one you are talking about.
Thanks for your interest and good luck with the lego elevator :)
That floor selector system is interessting. It's very compact and novel. I wonder, do these floor selector relays keep their position when the power fails?
Good observation and all will be revealed in a future vid ;) I have one of these relays to play with! All I need now is 100v DC!
Wow
Cooooooooooool I love the cliks
Where Is that how it works video
th-cam.com/video/QtXHQAltdyw/w-d-xo.htmlm1s
There is this, which is the "start" of what I was intending to do. But it's on a long list of videos that I need to edit.
mrmattandmrchay whats the editing software you use
This one was edited with Pinnacle Studio 18, but I've been using Adobe Premiere and After Effects for ages now. Intro was done in After Effects.
It’s a bitsa
This is single speed
+adithyamc Gaming yes...with what's called "crash levelling"
it actually has 7651 views
You need to remove the amount of views from the title it seems kind of desperate for otherwise good videos
This was just my way of making a personal record of my achievements as my videos were uploaded. When I uploaded this one my total video views reached 2M. But I agree with your comment and will remove that part. Thanks for the message :)
good channel sent you a email
URBAN harvey exploration Thanks :) Not sure that I received any email though?
some times email don't work. anyway in short I am an urban explore and I get around any thing that's been abandoned and the like. sometimes on my explores I find old lifts to mooter rooms etc. now they are of not much interest to me so I don't film them.
but I know you maybe interested. so what I can do when I find the above is to make a video of it for you. I don't mind doing that as for my to get into a billding is very good but maybe not for you but I may find a lift so can film it for you. I can then do this in two ways make the video put it on my channel or send you the clips for youre channel.
I have to old lifts I found latlay and I'm going back to the place so can film it for you
Dude, pls log on skype, any account. Got good news!!