When do you need an aftermarket Oil Cooler?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- Our question of the week this week comes from Keith at 969 Performance. He asked us to talk about when you might need to upgrade to an aftermarket oil cooler.
Since 2004 when STI was first made available here in the States, it has come equipped with an oil cooler from the factory. And for a number of years, the WRX and other turbocharged Subarus also came with a factory installed oil cooler.
The reason for this is that although it is always important to keep your car's oil at a normal operating temperature, in a turbocharged car that sends oil through the turbo to keep it lubricated and working properly, it can be more difficult to keep your oil at stable temperature. This is especially the case if you are driving in hot temperatures, you are driving the car hard at the track, or you are making a good deal more power than the car did stock.
We talk about the factory Subaru Oil Cooler, and whether or not you really want to keep that on your engine. We also cover when and why you would look at moving to an aftermarket oil cooler and what you could consider if you do.
Thanks for watching, and be sure to add any questions that you might have in the comments below.
Stay Tuned! - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I've tracked my 2016 Focus ST a few times and the oil gets pretty hot. I added a Mishimoto 19 row cooler and it helped a good bit on track. Around town, Ill never see the advantages since the thermostatic plate isnt even active until 185, and then i dont drive it hard enough to run over 200-205 unless im doing sustained highway miles.
One thing they dont mention here, is oil coolers also add more oil capacity. Factory, my car takes 5.7qts. i currently put 8qts in. The oil cooler alone is about .75qts. So more fluid capacities also help keep temps regulated.
I don’t wanna be convinced that I need an oil cooler, but fine I’ll watch it, TH-cam!
Ha! Well, we don't entirely say that is the only option :-)
Thanks for the comment and Stay Tuned!
Thank you for all the Subaru information. We appreciate it!
Absolutely! Stay Tuned for more :-)
great video, thanks Jon. I've wondered about this.
Glad that it was helpful! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
As always, very informative and useful content. You guys always help us to prevent from buying certain products advertised as "necessary" for a reliable setup. Keep up the good work.
Thanks very much. Really appreciate that.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Awesome and helpful, thanks
Stay Tuned for more :-)
first video in a long time where i actually learned something. didn't expect to.
Thanks for watching and glad that the video helped.
Stay Tuned!
I like this channel a lot.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I'm a fairly new subscriber to Flatiron Tuning channel, really like the content and keep the videos coming.
Thanks very much and glad that you found us! Stay tuned, there is a lot more in the works!
Same here. 70 retired own a 2006 Subaru sti with spt add ons. Just enjoy driving the car . I don't push it. High maintenance issues vs my 98 Honda prelude
Been purchasing thru Flatirons since I bought my Subaru (2016) Thank you for all of your advice and input. My rebuild would have been much more expensive and much slower.
Thanks for the comment, and very glad we could help!
Stay Tuned!
My 2014 WRX gets up to 240 degrees f some days just on a 40 min drive to work. Oil temp sensor is on a sandwich between the oil filter and block. Fluids are good and seems everything is working but its mainly on hot days in Florida
Thanks for the comment. Yep, without the factory oil cooler, oil temps can definitely be affected when the weather gets hot.
You may want to consider putting some sort of oil cooler on. We have a kit if you want to retrofit the factory one. Here is a link to that:
www.flatironstuning.com/08-14wrxoilcooler
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
The C4 Corvette came with that same type sandwich preheater/cooler-stabilizer.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Nice content i like it
Thanks very much for watching! Stay Tuned!
my 2010 Forester XT was hitting 230-240 cruising down the interstate at 80mph; put on the stock style heat-exchanger, and now my oil temps are in the 180s and my oil pressure is much more stable
Thanks for that information. Good to hear that the factory heat exchanger worked well for you.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning If I do some pulls I can get it to climb up to 205 but after a couple minutes of cruising it'll come right back down. I also put one of those heat exchangers on my 2012 Outback 2.5i 6MT since I use that car to tow a lot. So far I have not been able to get that car to break 195F oil temp wise, even after multiple back to back 6800rpm pulls through 3rd.
You need 220-230F, lmao. Its not about lowering temps but running where oil gets within normal operating temps. 180f is not warm enough for proper operation.
For 15 and newer WRX the mishimoto oil cooler system works awesome. From 230 down to 180 on the highway
Glad you have had good results with it.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thats not good brother. You need 220-230 at least.
Great video as always guys! What temperatures did you see out of your PP EJ255 on track before and after running a cooler?
Modern FS engine oil doesn’t see *much change to its physical or chemical properties below ~275* now. There’s no harm done in sustaining 260* during high stress conditions, other than significantly shortening OCI.
Thanks for your question. Honestly, at the beginning, we didn't pay much attention to oil temperature. But knowing how quickly the oil discolored, and from seeing temps from some other people that we worked with that weren't running the factory cooler, our guess is that we were getting somewhere between 250 - 300 degrees.
It definitely pays to run a good oil that will hold up to high temperatures if you aren't running any type of cooler. It is also worth mentioning that if your oil is okay up to those high temperatures, that does still put more stress on your cooling system as well.
Thank for watching and Stay Tuned!
Follow up questions:
If your going to run an aftermarket oil cooler would you run it in conjunction with the factory oil exchanger or remove the factor unit for a aftermarket thermostatic oil cooler? Any issues stacking them together like header clearance issues, or having the oil filter so close to the header ?
If you drive the vehicle on the street or in colder climates I would recommend keeping the factory oil cooler in conjunction with the aftermarket cooler. This will give you the benefit of heating up the oil quicker and the thermostatic oil cooler will start opening up when the oil temps are at operating temperature to help aid the factory oil cooler keep the oil temps in check. I run a Mishimoto thermostatic oil cooler on my 2004 sti and it fits wonderfully with stock headers. I live in montana and winter months without the thermostatic oil cooler the oil gets too cold and drops below an ideal operating temp
Thanks for your question. Honestly, we haven't tried that, but I would think that the plumbing needed to get both of those things working together would be tricky. The other thing is that the factory cooler may actually reduce some of the effectiveness of the external cooler. If the external cooler is able to cool the oil below coolant temp., but you then run that cooler oil through the factory heat exchanger, it would actually heat it up a bit.
In the long run, to keep complexity to a minimum, I'd say you would want one or the other, not both. If you are running the external cooler in the winter, the thermostatic plate, should allow the oil to heat up by skipping the cooler, and once up to temp, you should not have an issue maintaining that temperature.
If you needed more cooling form an external cooler, you would look at the cooler placement, or possibly a larger oil cooler core (there are a lot of options out there beyond what comes in some of the pre-assembled kits).
I hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Please add subtitles with metric values. It kinda' sux to pause the video, go on google to see what 230⁰F actually means, and then start again.
Thanks!
To increase longevity of modern turbocharged cars (e.g. VW), oil coolers (not heat exchangers) with thermostat should be standard. Once the radiator starts going out and the cooling system begins to fail, there's no cooling fallback and the engine (and transmission, also connected to a heat exchanger) overheats to 260+F until they go in limp mode. Oil and transmission coolers are the first things I'd install were I to get a nee turbocharged car to keep the temps in a sweet spot, say 205 F for oil and 185F for trans.
I wish the Cobb Accessport had the oil pressure as a gauge option
Thanks for your question. That is true. The main issue is that Subaru doesn't put a pressure gauge on the engine, so you have to add that sensor to start seeing that information.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
When are you guys doing a stock location vs rotated video? Thanks
Thanks for your question. Yes, it is on the list, we just haven't got there quite yet.
But we will.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I recently experienced a turbine speed sensor failure on my 2013 sti after spending 2 hours in traffic and driving a bit fast afterwards . Have to mention that I live in Bali ant it was a very hot day. What do you think,could the failure happen because of oil overheating as a result of traffic/driving fast or should I look deeper in the cause of it? And World you sugest an additional oil cooler to prevent this happening in future(because traffic is bad here and it’s hot ) ?
Wow, a bit surprised to hear you say 230º-240º is the threshold oil temp, but I suppose if that's overall sump temp, the oil in the turbo and engine is going to be quite a bit higher. I've been apprehensive about tracking my '05 WRX, but I'd like to give it a shot this fall after the recommended oiling system upgrades.
My question for you guys, since I can't seem to get a very definitive answer elsewhere: What do you think the highway cruise oil temp should be in a stock USDM EJ205 with the stock heat exchanger setup in place? Obviously this in conditionally dependent, so lets say 5th gear, low load, 70mph/3100rpm at a 70º ambient temp?
I'm seeking an accurate baseline temp because based on my experience with other cars, my Subaru oil temp seems quite low, making me second guess my gauges accuracy...
A year or two ago, I installed an electrical oil temp gauge, tapped the sender into the stock oil pan drain plug and I'm continually surprised to see my oil temps on the Autometer gauge are typically lower than coolant temps via my AP during highway cruise by a good 10-20º. This is especially true when ambient temps are below 60º. I've always been under the impression that oil temp and coolant temp are generally within 10-20º of each other in modern cars during low load highway cruise, but that the oil temp would always be the higher of the two numbers, and my WRX seems to be showing the other way around, despite the heat exchanger helping warm the oil to a similar temp?
Thank you and keep up the great content!
Thanks for your question. Yes, the oil in the turbo is going to get pretty hot. On a turbocharged car, that is one of the main reasons that it is important to use a high quality oil that can stand up to that heat. Because only a small amount of oil will go through the turbo, it doesn't raise the overall temp of the oil too quickly.
But it is always good to keep an eye on your oil temperatures.
For normal oil temperatures, it would definitely be unusual for oil temps to be lower than coolant temps. It could have to do with where you are reading from (though the pan is a common location for a sensor), or it could come down to the calibration of the gauge.
You might want to start out in the morning and just turn the key to the "on" position and see what the coolant and oil temps read. They should both be at ambient temp. Then watch how they go from there. Typically the coolant comes to temp first, and then the oil second.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
what about larger oil pans? Can i see a significant drop on temperatures? The thing that stops me from doing an external oil cooler is like you guys said, about the header and possible leaks along the way
Thanks for your question. A larger pan with more capacity would in theory add a bit of heat capacity to your oiling system because the oil would spend a bit more time in the pan to cool off. Many larger pans have a cooling fins built in to help with this as well.
I would not expect that you would see a drop in temperature, but you may see more stable temperatures with the larger pan.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Funny, Ghostwrex and I were literally talking about this!
It is a hot topic!
Can we get a video on clutches? What you guys recommend.
Thanks for your question. I'll add it to the list! Until then, we actually have a fairly detailed write-up on our website about picking a clutch:
www.flatironstuning.com/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-to-pick-your-next-clutch
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Does upgrading an aftermarket radiator help while running the stock oil cooler on sti since it uses coolant to cool down? Debating on whether I should upgrade my oil cooler but don’t necessarily want to go through the hassle of putting one if I don’t have to.
is it possable to develope a more performant heat exchanger to upgrade your factory one for daily drivers especially in hotter climate?
Will the oil get up to temp quick enough without the oil warmer on a daily driver or should I get one hooked up? I removed it on my forester xt daily-driver when I rebuilt the engine because I didn't wanna pay for a new one. I'm in a warmish climate.
Good reminder on the oil pressure (and temp) gauge. I must install one asap.
Thanks for the question. Especially if you live in a warmer climate, you should be okay if you just give your oil a little extra time to warm up.
If anything, the benefits are more stable oil temps under normal driving, etc.
If you are going to put on an oil temp and pressure gauge, it would not be a terrible idea to re-install the oil cooler.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Is the placement for an oil cooler in front of the condenser bad for the condenser? Great video
Since the aftermarket coolers are relatively small, it has a minimal effect on the function of the AC.
You definitely don't want to completely block off the fresh air getting to the radiator any more than you have to though.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning thanks for the reply , I’ve got a 2017 civic TypeR , PWR radiator and intercooler,
I was thinking I need an oil cooler
Do the VA 2015+ non STi WRXes come with a stock heat exchanger?
Super helpful. Is there any "stronger" heat exchanger for wrx sti ?
Sure, there are a number of aftermarket options if you need more than what the factory heat exchanger can handle.
We like the RCM kit:
www.flatironstuning.com/rcm-oil-cooler-kit-08-14-wrx-sti
But there are a number of good options out there.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Thx for your answer but I literally mean EXCHANGER water/oil. Like swapping the stock unit for bigger one. Not like an air cooler but the same concept as have that stock unit. I am not doing any track days or long brutal demand on my car. Nothing like that. I just dont wanna underestimate my oil temp but I wanna keep exchanger style system.
I'm not aware of any larger aftermarket exchangers like that. That said, even up to moderate track duty, the stock one should be fine. You just want to make sure that your radiator and cooling system is functioning at its best.
Hope that helps!
@@FlatironsTuning THX a lot ❤️
Ive heard using an aftermarket oil cooler when your temps dont get very high can add a lot of moisture to the pcv system. Is this true?
Question: Once an aftermarket oil cooler is installed, do you go about oil changes any differently? Does the oil make its way back into the pan or would we need to undo the oil cooler lines to get it all out?
Thanks for the question. If you are using a thermostatic adapter, then the oil in the cooler will not drain back into the pan. If you are changing your oil somewhat regularly, that small amount of older oil shouldn't have a significant impact. But if you are going longer between changes, you may want to consider opening up the lines to drain all of the oil every couple of oil changes. Or you could do a short change interval every once and a while.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
When installing an aftermarket unit, do you recommend eliminating/bypassing the stock one at the same time? Free up the engine coolant to just focus on cooling the engine and not engine + oil?
Thanks for your question and thanks for watching. yes, when you put on an aftermarket oil cooler, it is typically best to remove the stock cooler. This is especially true when the aftermarket cooler has a thermostat.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
So I accidentally bought and installed the wrx water pump without the oil cooler nipple on the water pump. Timing is already set. What are your thoughts on Teeing into one of the 2 soft lines that connect to the hard line to run the OEM oil cooler?
That is an interesting question. That could work. I think that the best solution would be to replace the pump with the correct one, but you could certainly try just going with a "T". The biggest concern that I would have is that the "T" might reduce the pull of coolant from the exchanger which may reduce its effectiveness.
But on a street car, that may not make enough of a difference to matter that much.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Hey flat iron so I have little oil drops in my coolant reservoir and it’s not milky but I don’t think it’s my head gasket as it’s brand new Athena head gasket and my engine was professionally installed but my question is how do I determine if my oil cooler is leaking oil into the coolant? How do I pressure test it?
Thanks for your question. You could certainly pressure test your cooling system. I might recommend flushing your cooling system as well. If you had any king of failure where oil got into your coolant, and you reused your radiator for instance, there may be some oil residue the moved in to the cooling system of the new build that way.
For what it is worth, we have never seen a factory oil cooler that had a failure where oil was getting into the coolant or the other way around.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning yes I plan to do a radiator flush and it’s a brand new koyo radiator, brand new closed deck block and all that stuff. The only thing that I have noticed before about my cooler was even with the oil filter in tight a little bit of oil would seek out and form a small drop on the bottom of the filter. I change my oil every 2,000 miles so I just started noticing it in the last two oil changes. My car is on a rotated turbo and on a break in map so we don’t know if it’s actual oil or what but thanks for the response.
@@E85_STI That would have something to do with the seal of the oil cooler to the block, or the oil filter itself. It would not have anything to do with the cooling system at that point.
Still worth pressure testing the system too.
Do you recommend keeping the factory one when installing an external one ?I'm assuming the thermostat in the sandwich means it can be deleted ?
Thanks for your question. Yes, typically when you are installing an aftermarket cooler with a thermostat, you no longer would need the factory heat exchanger.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Do you need to remove factory oil cooler when installing oil radiator or keep both. For track use car
Thanks for watching and thanks for your question. If you are looking at a radiator with a built in oil cooler, I would strongly recommend using something else. We have seen issues with those, and it is better to either stick with the factory oil cooler/heat exchanger, or to move to an aftermarket oil cooler that is a standalone unit ideally with a thermostat.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Can we either on a podcast or a question if the week talk EJ25D? Specifically the crank? Maybe with Micah, Clint or Kieth? How they achieved the stroke, downsides of how the achieved that stroke or maybe positives? Also any known expert expert using those crankshafts or engines in general for turbo builds
Thanks for your question. On the EJ25, the crank is the same for all of the turbo and NA cars. Should have a 79mm stroke. Are you wondering about the where the 79mm crank has benefits over the EJ20 crank which has the 75mm stroke?
I'll definitely add it to the list of questions.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning correct. EJ25D has a 79MM stroke but they achieved it using 48MM journals for the rod bearings, instead of 52MM. Essentially it’s a 75MM crank with the journals turned down 4MM to get the 79MM stroke. They also use a longer connecting rod. I’d love the hear someone with some experience with those engines say a few things, not much knowledge out there on those for performance. Supposedly Jun used that crank back in the day for a salt flats top speed shop car?…
Great information! Can you do a similar primer for transmission coolers? I have a 2015 WRX CVT and I am curious about CVT coolers for the longevity of the transmission.
Thanks for your question. That is not something that we have played around with a lot but we will add it to our list.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I had just posted this but, my 2023 VB just hit around 215 degrees F on the oil temp, and I baby my car as I’m still breaking it in (500 miles on the dash, not passing 3600rpm) the outside temps were 79-82 degrees; givin we were driving for about 45min-1hr. However my wife said she saw some sort of temperature warning on the screen flash. Didn’t see it myself but now I’m starting to research what to do without voiding warrantee…any suggestions?
Thanks for your question. 215 deg F is pretty normal, and actually pretty good for oil temp. I wouldn't worry until you get over 230 - 250 deg F.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Does the 04 Forester XT usdm have this OEM oil/coolant heat exchanger?
Thanks for your question. Yes, the Forester XT had the cooler up to 2007 I believe.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning thank you for the speedy response!
Hi guys can you help answer if you would need a gear oil cooler for our six speed sti? What temps have you measured?
Not sure about temps, but many years of people running 20-min HPDE events say it’s not necessary for that application. The 06 and older STI trans have an oil pump with an external hard line, which makes it easier to run an in-line cooler if necessary. Newer STI use oil scrapers instead of a pump
Edit: check the serial number of your transmission to determine if it has the pump or not
Thanks for your question. We haven't logged transmission temperatures yet. I think that for street and light to moderate track use, transmission oil temperatures aren't an issue that often. But if you start making a good deal more power, or if your car is spending a lot of time at the track, you would want to put a cooler on the transmission to make sure that you are maintaining consistent transmission temperatures.
If you have a dedicated race car, a trans cooler is not a bad thing to consider adding for sure.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I'm living in south east asia where the climate always hot.is it worth it if I installed the oil cooler on my 95' honda civic? it's not a performance car.just a daily driven car with few upgrade.
Thanks for your question. If it is so hot that you see your oil temps getting much hotter than you want, then an oil cooler would certainly be a good idea. Over the life of an engine, having more stable oil temps will help to improve reliability and reduce wear.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Which oil engine or transmission ??
Thanks for your question. This is a conversation about engine oil.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
you will have to put more oil into the car
So I deliver pizzas and I beat the piss out of my car all day. And it's usually on for 5 hours at a time. I was thinking about adding a oil cooler to my subaru. Is it a good idea. And I have more questions
If your car doesn't have something to stabilize oil temps from the factory, it will certainly help.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning thank you. And 2nd question. Do I have to take everything off in the winter. Or will it be ok
@@FastFrank1408 The factory cooler actually helps in the winter too. The coolant helps the oil get up to operating temp faster.
@@FlatironsTuning really? I haven't heard anything about cold temperatures stuff. I beat on my car harder than racecar drivers year round. So these details are important.
Great Video as Always But im Sorry to be "that guy" and i know its an american show/channel but should really include the content as tho the rest of the world is watching.
Firstly 1995 is when the WRX got the oil "cooler" and not sure on the STi's and my 99/00 GF8 WRX Wagon has one also.
In the rest of the world Almost all Turbo Subarus (even non imprezas like legacy) from about 1995-96 got an Oil "Cooler" (just because the USA did not get the real WRX's 1994-2000)
Does not mean the rest of the world should be Rudely excluded as over 150 countries got the WRX from 1994 onwards and 1995 with the Oil "Cooler".
Also Majority of the worlds subarus are identical to the "JDM" for example in Australia (AUDM), The Engine, Tranny & ECU are Identical to the JDM Version including the ECU with 100 Octane Tune. from 1995-2000 (classic shape) Later models are tuned for Aussie 98 Octane premium.
On a side note
Its kind of rude & Exclusive like doing the Channel in Inferial Measuring system only when only 3 countries out of 183 countries in the world use that system and 2 of them are 3rd world countries without computers or the internet and everyone else use Metric system, so its a been "Egocentric" to only use Inferial System on an American Video.
(Yes the "Inferial" System :D was not a typo - as it is by any measure Inferior.)
Where as most channels made in countries that use the Metric system (aka the entire world) provide both metric and Inferial conversions so Americans Don't have to do math LMAO :D
First
Nice! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
It's funny how my 04 auto forester comes with a oil cooler but the 04 manual forester doesn't have one.