The title says it all what I think about the current Ground RB, and seems like majority player base think the same. I feel like some re-balancing needs to be done. Anyway I hope you guys having a nice weekend 💪😉 What should I play next?
For a game mode called 'Ground RB', it sure feels like a whole lot of just aerial combat. In that case I demand that ground forces and battleships be added to Air RB.
@@JC_WT That’s what they tried to do with the World War mode and the Enduring Conflicts. It didn’t really work as well as was hoped though, for obvious reasons. With all of the bugs and br compression, WT will just not be nearly as much fun as it used to be back in 2013-2015 era. And the silver lions out to just be removed entirely, as the serve no real purpose than to be a hinderance
Taking your AA and shooting bits off the plane, it is a burning wreck "aircraft destroyed" is on your screen. You start looking to see if there are more planes up, 10 seconds later the plane you "destroyed" has turned around 180 and bombed you.
The sad thing about heavily armored veichles like foch, maus, T95 and Tortoise is that you always get bombed. The tortois doesn't even have good front armor against tanks like T34, T29 and tiger ii. Could you make video on hstvl or vcc 80/60
Bro fuck the HSTVl, it should be removed or nerfed. It bounces shells it shouldn't be able to, has bs survivability with things that should completely destroy it. It's a never tested prototype, and it over performs. Being able to 1 shot tanks with a tiny 57mm Is completely bs
Actually fosh is mobile as a light/medium tank, but it's a big target. Probably hard not to notice. Actually I would like to play with these 2 so some day in the future;)
Feel you Dollar. A lot of times you cant hear the planes, so when you notice it, it is too late. Anti Air vehicles are often a joke too (Difficult aiming/ leading shots and the player skill). If the pilot isn't a total donkey a good placed bomb or a burst of the 20mm will do the trick. Or at least cripple the AA. I often feel like a "NPC" target, which can be easy farmed, because people in air AB or RB cant get points. Dont know, but i cant spawn with my AA in air RB and spam ground to air missles to annoy them ... For me is increase the point costs of planes by 100-200% or just 1 spawn. So you will think of wasting points / spawn for some "free" kills. Or bring back some AI AA around the Battlefield. Or Bombs will have a 10 sec. timer no matter what. Its often the helplessness, that you cant do anything against it most of the times.
If you can't hear the plane coming to bomb you it's because they put their engine to 0% throttle. Not many do it since it's not really necessary. I keep a fighter in my ground lineup just to kill attackers and bombers. It's fun to see bad pilots die and try to respawn in AA hoping that they will get you, untill they realize that you are there only to kill other planes and not to strafe people in tanks.
Limiting players to only 1 air spawn sounds like a really great solution. Combine that with a higher cost for planes and a cap on like 3/4 aircraft playing at the same time for each team, and finally ground RB could be enjoyable.
The increase points costs or spawn limit is a bit unreasonable for me since it will make it harder for you to jump into a fighter without bombs to shoot down the CAS that has been harassing your team. I'd propose a 400% sp increase on bombs, ground rockets.
1 air spawn sounds cool but I also think that the airfield should be further away, or maybe fighters without bombs get the normal airfield but bombers can only spawn at a distance, +give nuke an air spawn + match extension. Or maybe they decrease the rewards for CAS kills. Like yea I get that CAS can help kill an op tank that got downteired but most if the time they just bomb half the team before it even leaves the spawn and then strafe every light tank into oblivion
Ever since they added overpressure, CAS has been absolutely scuffed. It's made volumetric rounds and armour look like smooth, well implemented gameplay mechanics in comparison.
OP I find to be a slight bit better then hull break was. Hull break legitimately made a large majority of light tanks unenjoyable at best. Nothing was more frustrating then getting shot in the track. That be the only think that was damaged. And getting hull broke. Most of the time it was heatfs. But even the fucking 76mm heatfs from the t92 would hull break light tanks sometimes. Stupid ass mechanics
I've resorted to playing SPAA mostly, and i get excellent results almost every match because of it. Putting planes down is incredibly fun. Denying them kills and action is incredibly satisfying. No more rush plane revengekills, no more cap and stay in the air all game, no more heli rush, NO. G R O U N D RB must be played with GROUND vehicles. Also, it takes a bit of mastering but you too can leave the game fast enough for planes to miss the kill on you. You have to instantly leave the game / vehicle the moment a plane drops on you. You will suicide this way and he will have wasted his drop and gotten 0 kills for it. Alternatively, you can start J ing out when a plane approaches you and with a bit of good timing, you get the same results; but ESC+leave is faster in a pinch
Eliminating planes from ground RB will make AA useless. The problem in war thunder is that a large majority play as a lone wolf, nobody plays AA and covers allies. But cooperation is a must in this game and 99% of the community didn't understamd that
J-ing out to prevent a cancer plane from getting the kill is the best thing I have ever heard about this game. Congrats on behalf of the majority of the ground rb playerbase who’s tired of cas.
@@Vins9393 The problem in this case is not the community but the game. When they give almost no reward for teamwork and make chat usable only once every 30 secs they make it clear that teamwork is not only not advisable for grinding but also extremely difficult. And come on, anti air are at the same time incredibly OP against ground targets but absolute garbage against planes, with few exceptions.
@@albero319 J-ing out to deny kills is cringe, bro. If you want to play tanks only, World of tanks is probably more your style. And no, the majority of GRB playerbase is not tired of CAS. They just learn to git gud and become proficient with SPAA and killing CAS with their own planes.
Helis in general arent even broken.. there is few exceptions like russian ka-50 and ka-52 and the new chinese heli. Other than that they are pretty balanced. You actually need to be good to do well in other helis.
@@filonin2 exactly. Pretty much alö helis are so easy to kill especially in top tier. Exceptions are ka-50 and ka-52 as they are flying tanks and can fly when fully blacked out
Average GRB player is not afraid when hearing a engine sound, now is afraid when hearing a plane in the skies and when that plane drops a bomb. Welcome to War Thunder
CAS definitely needs to be rebalanced in ground RB, but I would miss them a little, because my favorite thing to do in WT is go full SPAA and deny all CAS planes
They need to increase spawn points for planes or make that u need at least 3 kills in a tank to spawn it , when you play certain BRs it looks like air realistic 2 and not ground.
I am one hundred with ya in that it needs to be increased and needs to be plane specific. For instance a PE-8 should not be spawnable with just one kill. It should be spawnable after 3 kills and a capture MIN.
That makes sense until radar guided AA, the fact that a plane with bombs cost way more than a heli with atgms while being less effective is crazy. Before radar I agree 100% after radar AA the down points need to go down with helis going up.
@@michaele1564 the bombers and bomb equipped planes in the br's where you have sams can drop their bombs from low earth orbit where jack shit but a jet can get you, a helos atgms have relatively short ranges.
@@CoreStarter Until missile AA like the 2S6 and Adats most heli atgms outrange gun based AA. Guided bombs like ATGMs should be high SP cost, dumb bombs should be lower than Helis with ATGMs. Most ATGMs are 5km or better. There is no reason a KA-52 with 10km ATGMs should be lower SP than an SU22 or F4 with dumb bombs. And at 8.0 br a lot of planes don t have ccrp either but AA like the gepard can smoke you anywhere within 2-3km.
They should put all planes in Ground RB in simulator flight mode. That way it’s much harder for them to just look around and spot tanks hiding in the undergrowth, and much easier for tanks to survive.
Recommend guys to play G6, type 75sph , 2s3m those have hevt shells tanks I once shot 4 planes down in a game with the g6 Edit: few months ago I used 2s3m shot down 6planes in last few minutes of a match Big guns are always fun
Honestly I think a good step would be if they would limit it to 1 or 2 planes active per team. It would reduce the chance of getting picked off and also reduce the amount of times where you pick an SPAA and shoot at a CAS just a second before another one kills you since it saw you shooting that other plane
Just rebalance spawning points, other things work not perfect, but good 1. SPAA already cost 70sp, if people cant realize them, it's their problem, not only sitting in spawn places, where CAS can easily detect and kill you, but also moving and changing positions to be near friendly land units to COVER THEM 2. Planes can't take objectives (OMG), they only can help to win for team by team working with land players. If you loosing all objectives, picking CAS changes nothing. 3. Heli's are other problem, in one side we have russian top tier helis but in other side we have unbalanced tech tree for nations beside usa and ussr, where you must first struggle too have something playable. I think they need full rework
@@h_adik6461 spaa are absolutely underwhelming when fighting air targets, just moving away from the spawn doesn’t change how shit they are. Having cheap anti air is necessary because of the shit show which is CAS, but it’s also a problem because of how disturbingly OP most anti airs are against ground target.
@@h_adik6461 "Fixing spawns" does NOT solve the CAS problem. you would have to put an impenetrable 1km² roof above every spawn so they can't spawnkill you, since CAS can literally shred you from 90° above you, higher than any SPAA can aim. 1. SPAA aren't the solution to 4-5 CAS on the enemy team since there's no way you can engage even just 2 at once, non-radar SPAA is weak against planes that aren't flying directly towards you (and even then they can often kill you with a bomb or their autocannons when they already count as being destroyed), and if you shoot at any plane the others know where you are. SPAA help against single planes or pairs of them if you're cautious, but not against several at once. Lastly, if you spawn an SPAA, kill a plane, and another plane kills you, then you don't have your SPAA ready to clear the skies, so you're pretty helpless. (taking several SPAA in your slots means you significantly weaken your ground line-up, and sorry, I'm playing tanks to fight tanks, not to shoot at CAS all day) -> again, if you'd limit CAS to 1-2 active per team, that would strengthen the role of SPAA, especially pre-radar, since you can focus more on those 1-2 planes, plus if you kill a plane and the 2nd sees you from that, you have a chance to fight back, which you do not if there's suddenly 3-4 planes going after you bc you're the only threat 2. if there's 4-5 planes destroying your team's entire front, they don't need to cap objectives. the remaining enemy tanks can just take them uncontested, since your team gets wiped again before they're anywhere near any objectives. And since they cost alot of spawn points, chances are your team is already on the back foot (and probably is down a few players which makes up for the enemy having some sitting in planes) 3. honestly they should just take away the guided missiles from the helis, they're only really bad when you get randomly blown up from a black dot high in the sky 8+km away
@WieseAufmWald > "Fixing spawn" doesn't solve cas problem If game gives you chance to spawn on plane even you died doing nothing, it's problem. Before you must at least kil 2-3 enemies to take air spawn, now taking somthing lower cost spawn (SPAA) and capturing objectives give you opportunity to flight. 1. I talked about how most people play on SPAA, they can't even hit taragets flying diagonally from them. Shooting to distance where their ammo explodes before reaching, EVEN with radars they are being so blind, crowding in one place, interesting why they're so weak 2. Again, most of players are can only fly-by drop bombs. I tell it, because i am also spaa and cas player, most of time i see how spaa players can't even realize good machines, and how players on easily earn spawn points takes planes and die with bomb 3. As i told, realize SPAA, they all can clear sky in hands of people, who can realize them (ironically, good SPAA is a good pilot too, because he can predict and know how planes fly). They are all good machines, i can't even tell which of them can be bad, they all with tank support can be played in light tank style gameplay, be in front and increase survival rate, but no we will seat in spawn and can't even turn heads back and hear enemy planes, because CAS is so OP
@@dierare and yeah, there are far more worse problems. delete those 3d markers in RB, it's really annoying, those markers are making RB look like slow AB. Bad LODs, map design (hello high tier), one spawn players (maby this is far worse than CAS and the reasons why all we lose in games?), spawn system (ab and sb far more enjoyable with 3 spawn systems)
I love planes in groud RB! Especially when they're played by players who do literally NOTHING with their tanks other than driving to a cap and holding J for 3 seconds after capturing it.
They really need to help out low/mid tier AAs, I have the sweed AAs and they are so hard to use because they not only shoot slow but the projectile is slow so I never know just how far I need to lead, plus the br jump between the shit ones and the good ones is brutal
@@justfly7730 Serious question. How would you be able to balance said mode when you are one hundred percent going to get stuck cause of some rando mcamp spots that you can't deal with using ground?
@@SleeprunnerInc Smoke and smoke shells come to mind if somebody is camping spots. Better map design would go a long way, but the point is There's always a way a tank can beat another tank. But there is nothing a tank can do versus a plane (except lower tiers with .50 if the pilot is an idiot flying low, slow and predictable) Getting obliterated from 8 Km up by TV guided missiles is not fun. Getting stuck because heli camps you from 10Km away is not fun. Respawning to die in spawn by plane is not fun. Don't even start the "but it's realistic" argument, because you'd only be using half of it... the half that suits you. You'd be conveniently forgetting the other half of realism which is the extensive AAA webs that would be everpresent throughout the map, everywhere, giving you no chance. Plus, it's a game, not a simulator. I find it amusing how the only players defending planes in ground RB are the actual plane players XDDDD. Did a lot of polling in the game chat throughout the years and THE ONLY players sticking up for planes were - guess who? - the plane players that had the top page of their stats full of planes. What a coincidence is it not?
"but muh historical accuracy" you can't do stuff like that, this isn't an arcade game where that stats can be blatantly fudged. the best way to deal with the problem is to make planes prohibitively expensive with SL and/or spawn points, that, or just do what any reasonable game developer would do and ADD A GROUND ONLY MODE!
@@RYNOCIRATOR_V5 But they are "blatantly fudged" If not by randomly increasing/decreasing stats on pen or armour, by adding vehicles that never saw active service. like the Maus, Panther 2, RT3 with auto cannon, Even worse they put that RT3 1980's tech up against WW@ vehicles. They will not introduce a "tank only" mode, as it means taking away the need to research the air tree... therefore taking away possible profit as people won't use GE/Premium to speed up that grind. Just Wont Happen.
This vid sums up the current state of ground RBs. Planes are killing it to the point where It's not worth playing anymore as it's rarely any fun. Great vid!
I believe that they should increase the spawn cost of aircraft by roughly ~50% give or take depending on armament and type (pure fighters without bombs/rockets/AT Cannons/Missiles and strat bombers will be cheaper on average than attack fighters) and perhaps a removal of the decreased air spawns from light tanks that often causes the early cap rush and the following constant death from above.
Love the sequences with slow driving and music! They're mesmerizing. Driving a military vehicle through a ruined city with some synth in the background is such a Brigador aesthetic
i dont know why its called "ground battles" when most of the time planes get the most kills or decide who wins. i wouldnt call a steak vegitarian so why call it ground rb if it really is mixed rb. gaijiggles
@@bubsy3861 at the moment i play 5.7. it happens often enough that i kill someone who already has 2 kills. then they come back in a plane and get around 4-6 kills more. some people arent good enough to play tanks in ground battles but also not good enough to play planes in air battles
The issue is with most fighters being able to carry 500kg bombs & how anti-air is so weak to planes. CAS just feels unfair when they can easily kill you but you can’t even fight back. (This is from the perspective of a 5.3-6.3 Russia player) (I use the zsu-37 for AA, I know it’s shit but I’m researching the BTR-ZD)
@@thecubeearthsociety6761 Problem is that people thinks from "fair or not" perspective. Someone get advantage on you and it's not fair coz you on different level of capability. But in my opinion that game build up on "unfair" mechanics so that can't be change and don't need to be. Plains and helicopters made to counter ground force and they do. They do it even before playable ground forces was made and should do. But it may be a good point to make it less affordable or make some limits in case of spawn points or numbers in the sky.
@@MrPopel-hc8fn i allways love it when you destroy someone and He comes 10sec later with a bomb. Knowing exactly where i am. We call that a "skycancer rageboner" 😐
Hey dollar. I have been going through a incredibly rough time with some health stuff and it’s taken a toll on me mentally. Your videos have gotten me through so much of it and I really appreciate you. I will forever be a fan.
I think that ground that and mixed rub should be a separate thing, if the rest of the game was well balanced. It’s not problem 1 for sure. I also think that each team in mixed battles should have at least a few people focussed on taking air superiority fighters and over watching. Maybe a light spotting mechanic for fighters to give them something to do. I spend half of most of my ground run games in the air either cas hunting or spotting with guns.
They could try to make two separate game modes (tanks only and mixed) just as a temporary event, so they could see how many people would be interested in each mode. Of course it will never happen, because gaijin is too preoccupied about queue times to do something like this or to decompress the BRs.
Palpatine was especially vindictive in this one. Getting on DOLLAR's nerves with CAS.😂😂Gotta admit though, that F4U flyinh and bombing through the tunnel was a Chad in how he carried it off. 4:45 And that Pe-3 hitting is own prop with a bomb. 😂😂 A great video DOLLAR.
they should do AA enlisted-style: if you spawn in an AA, two other AI-controlled AA vehicles spawn with you and follow you around :) And they only shoot at aircraft, unless you die and then you take control of them...
Imagine if there were a frontline of AI tanks that would regularily come in wave. That way, no need to nerf CAS, and you got a lot of better chance to survive. The forest hide the tree !
I swear to god man. Last night I was playing a simple 5.3 match in Berlin, and it kind of hit me. After the first two waves of enemy tank spawns, there was a bit of downtime, then, I shit you not, almost all of their team (7-8 players) spawned a plane in and turned the match into space bar simulator. You know what’s the worst part? Not a single one of them had a decent record prior to the plane spawn. You REALLY shouldn’t be allowed to spawn a plane in when you’re 1-3 or 0-2. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. It almost reminds me of those support killstreaks in old call of duties. You get awarded a few free kills just for existing, no questions asked. It’s horrible man. I’m so tired of driving maybe 4-6 minutes in my slow little tank destroyer to get to the middle of the map, only to get bombed and die instantly by a guy going 0-3 with 1 assist. I feel like another horrible thing about this whole plane spam ordeal is that almost none of them can actually last more than 10 seconds in a dogfight either, yet they can very easily get a free kill on ground targets and get away with it. Yikes.
A big problem imo is actually being effective with AA is pretty much impossible for your average player-you'll most likely be a free kill even if arcade
Berlin is especially bad when it comes to spawn bombing. If most of your team has been killed in a small amount of time, at the same time that a large group of CAS is coming in, your team are just fish in a barrel. I remember a recent match where for about 5 minutes our team was being continuously bombed in spawn. It was quite spectacular lol
No, thanks to you!(1y later). Somehow I missed your message... Usually TH-cam drops me a notifications for "super thanks", but it I haven't go it this time I guess
Short fix for ground RB, aircraft cannot spawn until 10 minutes has passed in match, only 2 aircraft per team are allowed up at one time, aircraft must take off from the airfield.
@Muntather Aldamok u can frekin get a fighter or a attack aircraft with an assist in a light tank... my idea is: just increase the cost of aircraft a bit, but I N C R E A S E payload sp requirements, like fighter is 800 sp, cas is 1200, bomber is 1250 too (cuz they suck in any mode, unless no air is fighting u), and then make bombs have HUGE cost, so u need alot of sp to get cas, like p47 with alot of bombs and rockets is 1200sp+ like 300-500 for payload, so almost a 2000sp, balanced for me
@@Kroetens u can frekin get a fighter or a attack aircraft with an assist in a light tank... my idea is: just increase the cost of aircraft a bit, but I N C R E A S E payload sp requirements, like fighter is 800 sp, cas is 1200, bomber is 1250 too (cuz they suck in any mode, unless no air is fighting u), and then make bombs have HUGE cost, so u need alot of sp to get cas, like p47 with alot of bombs and rockets is 1200sp+ like 300-500 for payload, so almost a 2000sp, balanced for me
Probably this is not possible because they don't want split the playerbase. They could significantly increase SP points retirements for planes, and that would do the trick
The number and commonality of planes drops off dramatically in Sim (because people can’t fly with the instructor in Sim)… but of course Sim battles are quite rare compared to RB…
@@Lizardry90210 It is much more complicated to sink a ship with planes than to destroy a tank. Also, many boats have automatic AA systems that are really accurate. Leaving aside that there are not many players who play naval battles
Typically those players die pretty quick and are out of the game. I agree with a slight increase but it boils down to players in fighters not doing the fighter role and ignoring bombers while they pepper ground targets to no affect.
We do our best! 😉 And happy to do the report 🫡 Now if only they would get to implementing the reload and sight mag reports, that would be swell. And I still have the ammo report to turn in, which will take it from 1060m/s APBC to 1000m/s APCBC. It’ll be kind of a trade off, but I think it will be welcome. Thx for noticing our hard work. It does feel great to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Cheers!
I have been playing this game for too many years, they will never remove planes solely because it stomps on players regardless the skill and causes everyone to gain less resourcess overall, since you earn jack shit by doing CAS and the guy killed by CAS wastes time trying to get out of spawn and also has to pay the repair fees
some planes should be *_restricted_* to certain weapon loads. some planes are way to strong with their loads. Anyways. *_I hope you are also having a nice weekend_*
I mostly play as CAS, and I agree that something needs to be done to reign them in a bit. Personally I'm in favor of removing their airspawns and forcing all aircraft in GFRB to takeoff from the runway with an exception for allowing floatplanes to airspawn a few dozen meters above the runway a few dozen kph above their stall speeds. All that extra energy that planes just spawn with for free is a tremendous boon. By forcing them to takeoff, you either force planes to spend several minutes gathering energy while climbing to a safe altitude before approaching the battlefield, or else they'll be low, slow, and easy targets for AAA if they opt to directly approach the battlefield instead. Either way it will take longer for a plane to return to the battlefield and make it harder to revenge bomb since you'll have more time to reposition before the planes arrive. Removing air spawns hurts heavy CAS and bomber planes more than it does light air superiority fighters. Maybe give SPAAGs the arcade point of aim indicator within a few hundred meters too.
@@Gustav_Kuriga I generally am. The best CAS planes are fighters with enough ordnance to kill tanks. Like my AU-1 with its 7000lbs of bombs split between six distinct drops and cannons that will shred panthers, or my G91 and its Nords that can slap a tank from several kilometers away.
When the game removes the air spawn for hight/top tier CAS in air RB, now the true skill is required to aproach the enemy base, bomb and return safe to AF, so could be a nice solution for low/mid lvl planes in ground RB
I feel like in last month planes are absolutely dominating the battlefield and the team which wins air battle is winning the game and tankers has no chance ti fight against it
@@SleeprunnerInc we're not gonna talk about how ineffective was the CAS in real life... Especially against mobile objectives like tanks.... Like a really small percentage of tanks destroyed during ww2 goes to CAS, less percentage than things like AT guns, other tanks, infantry, etc... It was extremely ineffective, in war thunder CAS are super effective, destroying everything from light tanks to AA vehicles
@@SleeprunnerInc wrong. with rare exceptions, historically that was not the case. Do some actual research, you'll find that for all of WW2, most of the cold war kill counts of armoured ground vehicles by planes was grossly over stated. This wasn't stopped by air commanders, as it helped to get more resources, it was encouraged by the propagandists as it helped to build their own troops and civilian moral, and to try to reduce that of the enemy. here's some actual facts. bombs only 5% get within 140 metres rockets 89% got within 140... but needed a direct hit to do any damage guns 32 per 100 rounds actually hit... but required cannons, not MG's to do any damage. Compare that to this game. Also, you have to actually attain air superiority before CAS can be deployed, that process is completely side stepped in this game. Actual stats for Normandy July '44 @ La Balaine, planes claimed 17 hits, after battle analysis showed a max of 2 actually killed. August '44 @ Mortain planes claimed 77 hits, after battle analysis showed a max of 9 actually killed. Ardennes salient planes claimed 66 hits, after battle analysis showed a max of 7 actually killed. Begorod-Kharkov Soviet planes claimed 270 tanks killed, ALL losses from all causes was actually 49, NONE WERE ATTRIBUTED TO PLANES, which the tankers described as just a nuisance. Battle of Kursk Soviet Air Force claimed 3147 tanks knocked out.. Entire losses to all causes was 849 Battle of Kursk Soviet 1st tank army lost 648 tanks, LuftWaffe responsible for only 11 The English captured a Panther in '44, painted it white and put it in a field, Typhoons ( the British rocket ground attack plane of choice at the time) fired 64 rockets at it, only 3 hit. It wasn't moving, painted white and nobody shooting back. 0.5% accuracy. They reckon to increase the possibility of hitting to around 50% they would need 18 Typhoons to fire 140 rockets.... 18 planes for a 50/50 chance to take out 1 unprotected, static tank US did a similar test later on, using F86 with 16 rockets in a side attack on an unprotected Tank, and declared a 0.9% chance of a hit at 500 yards (not likely for a fast jet to be strafing that close anyway), 0.4 at a more normal 1000 yards, and 0.15 at 2000 yards If the tank can fire back with a 50 cal equivalent MG, the hit chance drops to 0.45 at 500, 0.4 at 1000 and remained at 0.15 at 2000 Compare that "reality" to this game. Suicide attacks were only condoned by the Japanese out of sheer desperation, and then only against high value targets, like ships. Every other combatant knows the cost of planes, pilots, crews and their training cost far far more than a single ground vehicle, but in this game it's the meta. Every game at least half the kills by planes is followed a few seconds later by that plane spearing into the ground. The main effective use of air against ground was to soft targets, not tanks. But also psychological effects against inexperienced crews. Captured German crews said the worst effect was the sound of rockets. US had air superiority for most of the Vietnam war, and lost. UN had air superiority for most of the Korean war, that didn't end with a victory either. Desert Storm is the only time that air power definitively decided the battle.
I don't understand why the Surbiassé didn't get the Foch reverse while having the same engine and feb gearbox. Anyone got any ideas? Just because it's pretty hard to use the Surbiassé in 7.7 with 0 armor and reverse + the cannon doesn't even have normal ammo, just a primitive APBC.... But you see in 7.7 with laser apfsds there are the French who don't have normal AP ammo either. But that's not the only problem with 7.7, it's that if they get an up br then the 1950's tanks are in a battle with these 1970's-80's tanks where only tru skill isue matters! (And I played enough in my kedvent br with my favorite tank to see this clearly.)
No idea mate, but if it's true then I see no reason not to make it happen . Check sim battles, there's an option once a week to play against is4's and t54's with Surbiasse
But what if you want to play a tank game? as advertised "ground" forces. Saying that you have to play a ground force battle as a fighter to take out CAS is silly, defeats the purpose of playing the game in the first place. If you want a combat flight simulator, there are many far better titles around.
The problem with completely removing CAS from Ground RB is that many attackers and kinds of ground ordinance become pointless in air RB, since that place is mostly a sweat fest for fighters with most attackers that actually try to ground pound becoming cannon-fodder in no time. Balancing is definitely needed, like maybe limiting the amount of planes (and helis) a team can have at one time, and increasing plane (and heli) SP costs, but I don't think it should be completely removed, since it will make both some attackers and some SPAA pointless.
I get your point, but honestly I enjoy ground attackers in air RB, especially when playing with friends so that you can compensate the lack of maneuverability with superior fire power. I also think anti air should be entirely redesigned to make it less shit against air target and less OP against ground target.
@@albero319 Understandable, I also enjoy flying attackers in air RB, but some of them can be a pain, especially when alone, and especially ones that can't really dogfight, because the heavy firepower and defensive gunners often times is not enough to ward off an entire swarm of fighters. Also, when it comes to SPAA, it really depends on design, some of them can be extremely scary if used by competent players, while others are quite useless in the AA role, and the same can be said for their AT role, it varies from case to case.
Planes shouldn't be removed, but they should be totally rebalanced. You can spawn in a plane by getting one kill and an assist! That's totally stupid. Just by doing that, you get access to a vehicle that can easily get you 3 kills. CAS is exploited way to much, revenge bombing is one of the worst ways to die in this game. Bombs could also be nerfed, so players need to be more accurate with them to destroy tanks.
I quit WT two weeks ago for this very reason. Before you say that noone really quits WT, much like heroin, I truly think I have quit for good this time. I could deal with every other piece of $hit this game handed me, but CAS was just too much, I couldn't take it anymore. I left with 45days of Premium left, and just don't care...I am done. However, thanks for taking the pain Dollar and making fucking awesome vids, they crack me up. Cheers from Australia.
I think the real problem with CAS is how fast you can spawn a plane with a ton of bombs, people just run to the enemy get 1 kill or 1 cap and spawn in planes getting everyone early, I really think that we should have a specific time from the beginning of the match were no planes are allowed, or a significant rise in price to spawn a plane
Small advice from your small clip trying to shoot planes down with the French SPAA: 1. Always shoot them when they try to strafe you after spawning. It's one easy clap. 2. Don't move for as long as possible. Make them notice you, and also try to strafe you. Then shoot them. Using spawn protection I can usually kill 3 planes before I can actually be killed. This is advice from someone who straight up got into planes with the singular purpose of killing CAS. Great video as per usual!
Just increase plane spawn cost based on plane performance Or have it so it's expensive AF early game to spawn a plane and when your team is close to losing like 20% tickets left then planes become cheap so they have a way to turn the tide.
The problem is that encouraging players to go into planes when the team is down on tickets will make it less likely that they have enough tanks to push to cap (to then bring tickets back)…
@@zanaduz2018 It already is like that. It would not change anything except rewarding those who actually are skillfull and lowering CAS spam. Cause they could not suicide bomb near the end of the game since they would most likely be down to just the plane or be out of points anyways.
Actually some SPAA have pretty darn good penetration rounds and mobility, so they can play gunst tanks, like the 2S6 Tunguska, or the PGZ something from China
just create a separate tanks only mode if combined arms dies out then maybe gaigen should sort out the cas/tanks meta so people actually want put up with it
@@iffracem The "SPAA is a TD, and SPG is an SPAA" meta. The reason on why SPAA should also be removed from Ground Vehicles Only Mode. If CAS are cancer, SPAA are even more so.
Gotta say, I love planes in GRB, even when I face them, but the spawn cost for them (and helos) is WAYYYYY too low. You should not be seeing a CAS plane armed with a full load 2 minutes into a match because a light tank got a scouting assist and died. However the issue is most likely rooted in the fact that the matches are too short to make them far more expensive, and the maps are too small to support a longer match. I personally feel like a way to fix this would be to drastically lower ground forces spawn cost and rep cost to encourage players to respawn in tanks, and raise the spawn cost of aircraft by approximately 1.5ish times.
Just so you know I am one of the few people that immediately go for a clean fighter with no bombs or rockets and just try to protect teammates from enemy CAS.
In my opinion, the lack of a good AA (SPAA) in the BR 4.3 - 8.0 is the problem. In this BR the planes gets better and better and you can only counter it with fighters
The problem with planes in ground isnt helped by most pilots in my experience being completely brain dead and a lot of good dog fighters not really having anything approaching a good bomb load, so you have a choice between something with a good bomb load or something thats a good dog fighter. That dog fighter really being needed in the small engagement areas that the ground maps have if you want to fly cover.
The title says it all what I think about the current Ground RB, and seems like majority player base think the same. I feel like some re-balancing needs to be done.
Anyway I hope you guys having a nice weekend 💪😉
What should I play next?
It's been along time since you played on japanese tank. Right ??
I'd like to see you set down to another rpg or something we dont normally see you playing think would be really interesting
Pls plays whit surbaissé but whit hesh IS so fun
german 7.3 is a must 🙃
Is 7 with t 90 ;) and BMP and to top it all off ASU 57
Playing ground feels like being dynamic targets for aircraft who are bored of playing air RB.
Until 8.0 than we Start getting balanced. But that Stopps at 9.0 😄
no no the people that play attackers in Ground RB are thier becasue they get slapped in Air RB
Its a platform to pad Air KD's. GB is still a plane game, just with tanks in it.
Facts
I came to this game for tanks, and stayed for air rb, now i bring my joy of planes to people on the ground 😁
For a game mode called 'Ground RB', it sure feels like a whole lot of just aerial combat. In that case I demand that ground forces and battleships be added to Air RB.
Let's go boats in Ground RB would actually be a good way of balancing planes
Lets see how they like dual purpose guns of post war ships mhmmm. Good luck dogfighting while trying to avoid AA fire u plane scums
@@cc-bk3tx I would LOVE a mode that has ground, air and naval. It would be hard to implement, but man would it be fun lol
@@cc-bk3tx Until you met a ka 50 or somemig27 XD
@@JC_WT That’s what they tried to do with the World War mode and the Enduring Conflicts. It didn’t really work as well as was hoped though, for obvious reasons. With all of the bugs and br compression, WT will just not be nearly as much fun as it used to be back in 2013-2015 era. And the silver lions out to just be removed entirely, as the serve no real purpose than to be a hinderance
That's the closest to angy I've ever seen Dollar be. And I feel the "Just drove 5 minutes just to get bombed" especially on this map XD
Dollar shooting to plane with 40mm autocanon - "i am weak"
Dolar shooting to plane with 90mm tank cannon- " I am THE SPAA!!!!!"
That was the only air kill that day 😂
Dollapoleon has arrived
I love how realistic the aircraft is. Shooting a 81mm apcr straight through the engine, cockpit and the rest of the aircraft does nothing.
Putting several 40mm bofors holes in a helicopter and it doesn't even take damage 🙃
Taking your AA and shooting bits off the plane, it is a burning wreck "aircraft destroyed" is on your screen.
You start looking to see if there are more planes up, 10 seconds later the plane you "destroyed" has turned around 180 and bombed you.
@@keithrogers6876thats not even funny...
But damn you are right 😢
The sad thing about heavily armored veichles like foch, maus, T95 and Tortoise is that you always get bombed. The tortois doesn't even have good front armor against tanks like T34, T29 and tiger ii. Could you make video on hstvl or vcc 80/60
Well... As fan of that kind of armor I actually get much more shit from little shit that shot heat.
Bro fuck the HSTVl, it should be removed or nerfed. It bounces shells it shouldn't be able to, has bs survivability with things that should completely destroy it. It's a never tested prototype, and it over performs. Being able to 1 shot tanks with a tiny 57mm Is completely bs
Actually fosh is mobile as a light/medium tank, but it's a big target. Probably hard not to notice.
Actually I would like to play with these 2 so some day in the future;)
@@DOLLARplays т28. Less heet more fun.
@@bubsy3861 yeah I forgot heat . Like 7.7 heavy tanks just get destroyed by some heat slinger from a lower br like type 60 and m50 ontos.
Thank you for including Rocket-Boy near the end, a DOLLAR video never feels complete without a screaming missile :)
Feel you Dollar. A lot of times you cant hear the planes, so when you notice it, it is too late.
Anti Air vehicles are often a joke too (Difficult aiming/ leading shots and the player skill). If the pilot isn't a total donkey a good placed bomb or a burst of the 20mm will do the trick. Or at least cripple the AA.
I often feel like a "NPC" target, which can be easy farmed, because people in air AB or RB cant get points. Dont know, but i cant spawn with my AA in air RB and spam ground to air missles to annoy them ...
For me is increase the point costs of planes by 100-200% or just 1 spawn. So you will think of wasting points / spawn for some "free" kills. Or bring back some AI AA around the Battlefield. Or Bombs will have a 10 sec. timer no matter what. Its often the helplessness, that you cant do anything against it most of the times.
If you can't hear the plane coming to bomb you it's because they put their engine to 0% throttle. Not many do it since it's not really necessary.
I keep a fighter in my ground lineup just to kill attackers and bombers. It's fun to see bad pilots die and try to respawn in AA hoping that they will get you, untill they realize that you are there only to kill other planes and not to strafe people in tanks.
Limiting players to only 1 air spawn sounds like a really great solution. Combine that with a higher cost for planes and a cap on like 3/4 aircraft playing at the same time for each team, and finally ground RB could be enjoyable.
@@Blorb137 fun and games till gaijin drops anti-radar missiles
The increase points costs or spawn limit is a bit unreasonable for me since it will make it harder for you to jump into a fighter without bombs to shoot down the CAS that has been harassing your team. I'd propose a 400% sp increase on bombs, ground rockets.
1 air spawn sounds cool but I also think that the airfield should be further away, or maybe fighters without bombs get the normal airfield but bombers can only spawn at a distance, +give nuke an air spawn + match extension. Or maybe they decrease the rewards for CAS kills.
Like yea I get that CAS can help kill an op tank that got downteired but most if the time they just bomb half the team before it even leaves the spawn and then strafe every light tank into oblivion
Ever since they added overpressure, CAS has been absolutely scuffed. It's made volumetric rounds and armour look like smooth, well implemented gameplay mechanics in comparison.
OP I find to be a slight bit better then hull break was. Hull break legitimately made a large majority of light tanks unenjoyable at best. Nothing was more frustrating then getting shot in the track. That be the only think that was damaged. And getting hull broke. Most of the time it was heatfs. But even the fucking 76mm heatfs from the t92 would hull break light tanks sometimes. Stupid ass mechanics
I've resorted to playing SPAA mostly, and i get excellent results almost every match because of it. Putting planes down is incredibly fun. Denying them kills and action is incredibly satisfying. No more rush plane revengekills, no more cap and stay in the air all game, no more heli rush, NO. G R O U N D RB must be played with GROUND vehicles.
Also, it takes a bit of mastering but you too can leave the game fast enough for planes to miss the kill on you. You have to instantly leave the game / vehicle the moment a plane drops on you. You will suicide this way and he will have wasted his drop and gotten 0 kills for it.
Alternatively, you can start J ing out when a plane approaches you and with a bit of good timing, you get the same results; but ESC+leave is faster in a pinch
It's called mix battles regardless of the wording. Your frustration is noted and disregard.
Eliminating planes from ground RB will make AA useless. The problem in war thunder is that a large majority play as a lone wolf, nobody plays AA and covers allies. But cooperation is a must in this game and 99% of the community didn't understamd that
J-ing out to prevent a cancer plane from getting the kill is the best thing I have ever heard about this game. Congrats on behalf of the majority of the ground rb playerbase who’s tired of cas.
@@Vins9393 The problem in this case is not the community but the game. When they give almost no reward for teamwork and make chat usable only once every 30 secs they make it clear that teamwork is not only not advisable for grinding but also extremely difficult. And come on, anti air are at the same time incredibly OP against ground targets but absolute garbage against planes, with few exceptions.
@@albero319 J-ing out to deny kills is cringe, bro.
If you want to play tanks only, World of tanks is probably more your style.
And no, the majority of GRB playerbase is not tired of CAS. They just learn to git gud and become proficient with SPAA and killing CAS with their own planes.
As someone who only really plays air modes, whenever I watch tier 3+ ground rb, I’m always impressed at how broken cas is. Especially helicopters
Helis in general arent even broken.. there is few exceptions like russian ka-50 and ka-52 and the new chinese heli. Other than that they are pretty balanced. You actually need to be good to do well in other helis.
Helicopters are rp piñatas.
@@filonin2 exactly. Pretty much alö helis are so easy to kill especially in top tier. Exceptions are ka-50 and ka-52 as they are flying tanks and can fly when fully blacked out
@@kidsinafrica3080 you ever see the dude that uses full vr with choppers he’s why they are broken at max potential
9:59 The line “Oh, that looks like a banana” made me laugh more than it probably should have. Great stuff as always, mate!
This is one of the most fun WT content out there imo
true.
💪🏻
also i find this content more fun than the game itself tbh
@@loc1123 THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. War Thunder is a game to be watched, not played, played by someone that's really really good, like Dollar or Oddbawz.
A great reminder as to why I don't play ground RB as much as I used to. Great video as always Dollar!
Average GRB player is not afraid when hearing a engine sound, now is afraid when hearing a plane in the skies and when that plane drops a bomb.
Welcome to War Thunder
I confirm👍
CAS definitely needs to be rebalanced in ground RB, but I would miss them a little, because my favorite thing to do in WT is go full SPAA and deny all CAS planes
I'm glad so many people realize now how broken CAS is in Ground Battles
They need to increase spawn points for planes or make that u need at least 3 kills in a tank to spawn it , when you play certain BRs it looks like air realistic 2 and not ground.
That's an idea
I am one hundred with ya in that it needs to be increased and needs to be plane specific.
For instance a PE-8 should not be spawnable with just one kill.
It should be spawnable after 3 kills and a capture MIN.
That makes sense until radar guided AA, the fact that a plane with bombs cost way more than a heli with atgms while being less effective is crazy. Before radar I agree 100% after radar AA the down points need to go down with helis going up.
@@michaele1564 the bombers and bomb equipped planes in the br's where you have sams can drop their bombs from low earth orbit where jack shit but a jet can get you, a helos atgms have relatively short ranges.
@@CoreStarter Until missile AA like the 2S6 and Adats most heli atgms outrange gun based AA. Guided bombs like ATGMs should be high SP cost, dumb bombs should be lower than Helis with ATGMs. Most ATGMs are 5km or better. There is no reason a KA-52 with 10km ATGMs should be lower SP than an SU22 or F4 with dumb bombs. And at 8.0 br a lot of planes don t have ccrp either but AA like the gepard can smoke you anywhere within 2-3km.
They should put all planes in Ground RB in simulator flight mode. That way it’s much harder for them to just look around and spot tanks hiding in the undergrowth, and much easier for tanks to survive.
oh that would do the trick for sure
Recommend guys to play G6, type 75sph , 2s3m those have hevt shells tanks
I once shot 4 planes down in a game with the g6
Edit: few months ago I used 2s3m shot down 6planes in last few minutes of a match
Big guns are always fun
That's a good recommendation 👍🏻
The Type 75 SPH HEVT shell doesn't detonate on planes, only on ground targets.
@@sanitavoadora it does and it works quite well!
@@sanitavoadora it does, git gud.
I completely feel you, having a intense fight and then BOOM, I also sometimes play CAS but ya know, not spamming it
Honestly I think a good step would be if they would limit it to 1 or 2 planes active per team. It would reduce the chance of getting picked off and also reduce the amount of times where you pick an SPAA and shoot at a CAS just a second before another one kills you since it saw you shooting that other plane
Just rebalance spawning points, other things work not perfect, but good
1. SPAA already cost 70sp, if people cant realize them, it's their problem, not only sitting in spawn places, where CAS can easily detect and kill you, but also moving and changing positions to be near friendly land units to COVER THEM
2. Planes can't take objectives (OMG), they only can help to win for team by team working with land players. If you loosing all objectives, picking CAS changes nothing.
3. Heli's are other problem, in one side we have russian top tier helis but in other side we have unbalanced tech tree for nations beside usa and ussr, where you must first struggle too have something playable. I think they need full rework
@@h_adik6461 spaa are absolutely underwhelming when fighting air targets, just moving away from the spawn doesn’t change how shit they are. Having cheap anti air is necessary because of the shit show which is CAS, but it’s also a problem because of how disturbingly OP most anti airs are against ground target.
@@h_adik6461 "Fixing spawns" does NOT solve the CAS problem. you would have to put an impenetrable 1km² roof above every spawn so they can't spawnkill you, since CAS can literally shred you from 90° above you, higher than any SPAA can aim.
1. SPAA aren't the solution to 4-5 CAS on the enemy team since there's no way you can engage even just 2 at once, non-radar SPAA is weak against planes that aren't flying directly towards you (and even then they can often kill you with a bomb or their autocannons when they already count as being destroyed), and if you shoot at any plane the others know where you are. SPAA help against single planes or pairs of them if you're cautious, but not against several at once. Lastly, if you spawn an SPAA, kill a plane, and another plane kills you, then you don't have your SPAA ready to clear the skies, so you're pretty helpless. (taking several SPAA in your slots means you significantly weaken your ground line-up, and sorry, I'm playing tanks to fight tanks, not to shoot at CAS all day)
-> again, if you'd limit CAS to 1-2 active per team, that would strengthen the role of SPAA, especially pre-radar, since you can focus more on those 1-2 planes, plus if you kill a plane and the 2nd sees you from that, you have a chance to fight back, which you do not if there's suddenly 3-4 planes going after you bc you're the only threat
2. if there's 4-5 planes destroying your team's entire front, they don't need to cap objectives. the remaining enemy tanks can just take them uncontested, since your team gets wiped again before they're anywhere near any objectives. And since they cost alot of spawn points, chances are your team is already on the back foot (and probably is down a few players which makes up for the enemy having some sitting in planes)
3. honestly they should just take away the guided missiles from the helis, they're only really bad when you get randomly blown up from a black dot high in the sky 8+km away
@WieseAufmWald > "Fixing spawn" doesn't solve cas problem
If game gives you chance to spawn on plane even you died doing nothing, it's problem. Before you must at least kil 2-3 enemies to take air spawn, now taking somthing lower cost spawn (SPAA) and capturing objectives give you opportunity to flight.
1. I talked about how most people play on SPAA, they can't even hit taragets flying diagonally from them. Shooting to distance where their ammo explodes before reaching, EVEN with radars they are being so blind, crowding in one place, interesting why they're so weak
2. Again, most of players are can only fly-by drop bombs. I tell it, because i am also spaa and cas player, most of time i see how spaa players can't even realize good machines, and how players on easily earn spawn points takes planes and die with bomb
3. As i told, realize SPAA, they all can clear sky in hands of people, who can realize them (ironically, good SPAA is a good pilot too, because he can predict and know how planes fly). They are all good machines, i can't even tell which of them can be bad, they all with tank support can be played in light tank style gameplay, be in front and increase survival rate, but no we will seat in spawn and can't even turn heads back and hear enemy planes, because CAS is so OP
@@dierare and yeah, there are far more worse problems. delete those 3d markers in RB, it's really annoying, those markers are making RB look like slow AB. Bad LODs, map design (hello high tier), one spawn players (maby this is far worse than CAS and the reasons why all we lose in games?), spawn system (ab and sb far more enjoyable with 3 spawn systems)
I love planes in groud RB! Especially when they're played by players who do literally NOTHING with their tanks other than driving to a cap and holding J for 3 seconds after capturing it.
The Foch lives its life -19km/h at a time
Gotta love that the .50 mounted on my tank has earned me more plane kills than an any AA ive brought in
those .50's are probably the best aa at low tiers
They really need to help out low/mid tier AAs, I have the sweed AAs and they are so hard to use because they not only shoot slow but the projectile is slow so I never know just how far I need to lead, plus the br jump between the shit ones and the good ones is brutal
i am gonna be real, i hate planes in ground rb. there should be a mode with just tanks. no planes, no helis, just pure tanks
Totally agreed. If you are in the air it's very satisfactory but in a tank and planes up ahead very bad.
@@justfly7730 Serious question.
How would you be able to balance said mode when you are one hundred percent going to get stuck cause of some rando mcamp spots that you can't deal with using ground?
At minimum they should increase spawning in a plane requirements.
@@SleeprunnerInc you still can outplay tank with another tank, but you can't outplay bombs unless you're very fast. Plane spawncampig is even worse
@@SleeprunnerInc Smoke and smoke shells come to mind if somebody is camping spots. Better map design would go a long way, but the point is There's always a way a tank can beat another tank.
But there is nothing a tank can do versus a plane (except lower tiers with .50 if the pilot is an idiot flying low, slow and predictable)
Getting obliterated from 8 Km up by TV guided missiles is not fun. Getting stuck because heli camps you from 10Km away is not fun. Respawning to die in spawn by plane is not fun.
Don't even start the "but it's realistic" argument, because you'd only be using half of it... the half that suits you. You'd be conveniently forgetting the other half of realism which is the extensive AAA webs that would be everpresent throughout the map, everywhere, giving you no chance.
Plus, it's a game, not a simulator.
I find it amusing how the only players defending planes in ground RB are the actual plane players XDDDD. Did a lot of polling in the game chat throughout the years and THE ONLY players sticking up for planes were - guess who? - the plane players that had the top page of their stats full of planes. What a coincidence is it not?
Honestly I think SPAA should get a substantial buff. Maybe gun velocity or something and more points for downing CAS to encourage more SPAA use.
"but muh historical accuracy"
you can't do stuff like that, this isn't an arcade game where that stats can be blatantly fudged. the best way to deal with the problem is to make planes prohibitively expensive with SL and/or spawn points, that, or just do what any reasonable game developer would do and ADD A GROUND ONLY MODE!
@@RYNOCIRATOR_V5 yeah historical accuracy, exept when Panther fight some 1941 tanks.. And when B1bis have to face 1945 Heat....
@@valian8985 that's a retarded matchmaking issue, not a "i'm going to change technical details because it suits me" issue
@@RYNOCIRATOR_V5 But they are "blatantly fudged" If not by randomly increasing/decreasing stats on pen or armour, by adding vehicles that never saw active service.
like the Maus, Panther 2, RT3 with auto cannon, Even worse they put that RT3 1980's tech up against WW@ vehicles.
They will not introduce a "tank only" mode, as it means taking away the need to research the air tree... therefore taking away possible profit as people won't use GE/Premium to speed up that grind. Just Wont Happen.
@@iffracem 'They will not introduce a "tank only" mode', yes, this is why i uninstalled
This vid sums up the current state of ground RBs. Planes are killing it to the point where It's not worth playing anymore as it's rarely any fun.
Great vid!
I believe that they should increase the spawn cost of aircraft by roughly ~50% give or take depending on armament and type (pure fighters without bombs/rockets/AT Cannons/Missiles and strat bombers will be cheaper on average than attack fighters) and perhaps a removal of the decreased air spawns from light tanks that often causes the early cap rush and the following constant death from above.
Love the sequences with slow driving and music! They're mesmerizing. Driving a military vehicle through a ruined city with some synth in the background is such a Brigador aesthetic
😉
i dont know why its called "ground battles" when most of the time planes get the most kills or decide who wins. i wouldnt call a steak vegitarian so why call it ground rb if it really is mixed rb. gaijiggles
Planes gets most kills? What? With br you play?
@@bubsy3861 at the moment i play 5.7. it happens often enough that i kill someone who already has 2 kills. then they come back in a plane and get around 4-6 kills more. some people arent good enough to play tanks in ground battles but also not good enough to play planes in air battles
The issue is with most fighters being able to carry 500kg bombs & how anti-air is so weak to planes. CAS just feels unfair when they can easily kill you but you can’t even fight back.
(This is from the perspective of a 5.3-6.3 Russia player) (I use the zsu-37 for AA, I know it’s shit but I’m researching the BTR-ZD)
@@thecubeearthsociety6761 Problem is that people thinks from "fair or not" perspective. Someone get advantage on you and it's not fair coz you on different level of capability. But in my opinion that game build up on "unfair" mechanics so that can't be change and don't need to be. Plains and helicopters made to counter ground force and they do. They do it even before playable ground forces was made and should do. But it may be a good point to make it less affordable or make some limits in case of spawn points or numbers in the sky.
@@MrPopel-hc8fn i allways love it when you destroy someone and He comes 10sec later with a bomb. Knowing exactly where i am. We call that a "skycancer rageboner" 😐
Hey dollar. I have been going through a incredibly rough time with some health stuff and it’s taken a toll on me mentally. Your videos have gotten me through so much of it and I really appreciate you. I will forever be a fan.
I think that ground that and mixed rub should be a separate thing, if the rest of the game was well balanced. It’s not problem 1 for sure.
I also think that each team in mixed battles should have at least a few people focussed on taking air superiority fighters and over watching. Maybe a light spotting mechanic for fighters to give them something to do.
I spend half of most of my ground run games in the air either cas hunting or spotting with guns.
They could try to make two separate game modes (tanks only and mixed) just as a temporary event, so they could see how many people would be interested in each mode. Of course it will never happen, because gaijin is too preoccupied about queue times to do something like this or to decompress the BRs.
Starting the video with the tank reversing... so good.
Palpatine was especially vindictive in this one. Getting on DOLLAR's nerves with CAS.😂😂Gotta admit though, that F4U flyinh and bombing through the tunnel was a Chad in how he carried it off.
4:45 And that Pe-3 hitting is own prop with a bomb. 😂😂
A great video DOLLAR.
Oh he knows how to play my nerves😅 would be Sith Lord otherwise lol
Yeah boi, a new Dillar video!
Nice one as always Dollar and keep up the fantastic editing mate. ;)
🤟🏻
they should do AA enlisted-style: if you spawn in an AA, two other AI-controlled AA vehicles spawn with you and follow you around :) And they only shoot at aircraft, unless you die and then you take control of them...
Imagine if there were a frontline of AI tanks that would regularily come in wave. That way, no need to nerf CAS, and you got a lot of better chance to survive. The forest hide the tree !
Then people would complain about being killed by CAS AND Ai tanks.
@@priceless3020 We used to have AI tanks when ground forces released, never saw anybody complain.
Watching this made me want to play the Foch again
👍🏻
No no no no dont doit you Will suffer pls trust me i also wanted to play the foch but you probably know how It ended up
I swear to god man. Last night I was playing a simple 5.3 match in Berlin, and it kind of hit me. After the first two waves of enemy tank spawns, there was a bit of downtime, then, I shit you not, almost all of their team (7-8 players) spawned a plane in and turned the match into space bar simulator.
You know what’s the worst part? Not a single one of them had a decent record prior to the plane spawn. You REALLY shouldn’t be allowed to spawn a plane in when you’re 1-3 or 0-2. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. It almost reminds me of those support killstreaks in old call of duties. You get awarded a few free kills just for existing, no questions asked. It’s horrible man. I’m so tired of driving maybe 4-6 minutes in my slow little tank destroyer to get to the middle of the map, only to get bombed and die instantly by a guy going 0-3 with 1 assist. I feel like another horrible thing about this whole plane spam ordeal is that almost none of them can actually last more than 10 seconds in a dogfight either, yet they can very easily get a free kill on ground targets and get away with it. Yikes.
I hate big maps because of cas. Sometimes you drive for 5 minutes, and before you can even see an enemy tank you get bombed.
A big problem imo is actually being effective with AA is pretty much impossible for your average player-you'll most likely be a free kill even if arcade
Berlin is especially bad when it comes to spawn bombing. If most of your team has been killed in a small amount of time, at the same time that a large group of CAS is coming in, your team are just fish in a barrel. I remember a recent match where for about 5 minutes our team was being continuously bombed in spawn.
It was quite spectacular lol
Aviation players play more grb than air rb. That means something.
У них там есть вроде автоматические наземные стационарные орудия,может в этом причина?Наземным боям тоже не помешало что то подобное
Thanks!
No, thanks to you!(1y later).
Somehow I missed your message... Usually TH-cam drops me a notifications for "super thanks", but it I haven't go it this time I guess
Short fix for ground RB, aircraft cannot spawn until 10 minutes has passed in match, only 2 aircraft per team are allowed up at one time, aircraft must take off from the airfield.
there's a lot of options how improve things
@Muntather Aldamok u can frekin get a fighter or a attack aircraft with an assist in a light tank...
my idea is: just increase the cost of aircraft a bit, but I N C R E A S E payload sp requirements, like fighter is 800 sp, cas is 1200, bomber is 1250 too (cuz they suck in any mode, unless no air is fighting u), and then make bombs have HUGE cost, so u need alot of sp to get cas, like p47 with alot of bombs and rockets is 1200sp+ like 300-500 for payload, so almost a 2000sp, balanced for me
OR...they are just DAMN expensive to spawn at all...100k+ considering how much bullshit dmg a rusty ww2 russian plane can do.
@@Kroetens u can frekin get a fighter or a attack aircraft with an assist in a light tank...
my idea is: just increase the cost of aircraft a bit, but I N C R E A S E payload sp requirements, like fighter is 800 sp, cas is 1200, bomber is 1250 too (cuz they suck in any mode, unless no air is fighting u), and then make bombs have HUGE cost, so u need alot of sp to get cas, like p47 with alot of bombs and rockets is 1200sp+ like 300-500 for payload, so almost a 2000sp, balanced for me
11:27 that laugh basically meant: "Eat sh*t plane!" And I can relate 100%
Simply imagine a mode only for ground vehicles. Gaijin when?
Probably this is not possible because they don't want split the playerbase. They could significantly increase SP points retirements for planes, and that would do the trick
Never. Naval battles are combined too and I don't see people complain about it even though it's really easy to sink ship due to their sizes.
The number and commonality of planes drops off dramatically in Sim (because people can’t fly with the instructor in Sim)… but of course Sim battles are quite rare compared to RB…
@@Lizardry90210 generally cause most ships have enough AA to kill a plane and with high enough crew skill they usually don't get close.
@@Lizardry90210 It is much more complicated to sink a ship with planes than to destroy a tank. Also, many boats have automatic AA systems that are really accurate.
Leaving aside that there are not many players who play naval battles
I love your videos! They are well made and a lot of effort are put into them. I wish I could be like you one day.
thanks ;)
Im french and i approuve this episode.
Now retreat!
I'm still waiting for the day that GROUND rb is GROUND, not an air raid simulator
They could atleast add better aa, but lol that 8s True they could add an option or smth
@@fodetraore6666 or give us manually adjusted timed fuse delays without having to rangefind for it
I think a sharp increase in the spawn points required for a plane should be implemented, all you need is a kill or a cap & your away
I feel like that's the best solution
Or reduce the spawn points for ground vehicles so you can just have more lives. It’s dumb that each spawn becomes +100% more expensive
Typically those players die pretty quick and are out of the game. I agree with a slight increase but it boils down to players in fighters not doing the fighter role and ignoring bombers while they pepper ground targets to no affect.
you know you should give them planes some payback with the gepard
I feel like we need something like that
Hello dollar! Your videos always make my day :)
same
hey , glad to hear mate 🤟🏻
Yet another great video Doller !!!!!
They just need to make a separate mode with just tanks and no planes, that would be cool.
I'm french and this video just made my Day
Merci beaucoup Dollar
The French Tech tree server Fixed that reverse speed for us, thank to them !
We do our best! 😉
And happy to do the report 🫡
Now if only they would get to implementing the reload and sight mag reports, that would be swell. And I still have the ammo report to turn in, which will take it from 1060m/s APBC to 1000m/s APCBC. It’ll be kind of a trade off, but I think it will be welcome.
Thx for noticing our hard work.
It does feel great to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Cheers!
@@LeGrandSarrazin you're doing god's work😉
@@DOLLARplays
th-cam.com/video/-_7FaWnlhS4/w-d-xo.html
😉
The monologue of Police Squad with the vehicle going backwards is so fitting!
I have been playing this game for too many years, they will never remove planes solely because it stomps on players regardless the skill and causes everyone to gain less resourcess overall, since you earn jack shit by doing CAS and the guy killed by CAS wastes time trying to get out of spawn and also has to pay the repair fees
10:27 the snail savith and the snail takith it is just the way of the snail
Super Video Dollar your work enriches my day :) , I wish for a mode in War Thunder where only land vehicles can be used
🤟🏻
" _Dont die soldie!✋ Oh, that looks like a banana 🍌_ "
Dollarpepsi, jul, 2022
some planes should be *_restricted_* to certain weapon loads. some planes are way to strong with their loads. Anyways. *_I hope you are also having a nice weekend_*
Planes should be restricted to a single bombing rocket or straifing run and then be out if they really want to push the "realism" excuse
@@smolwavingsnail9028 also rearming bombs should take 1-2+ minutes not 30 seconds or less. depending on the size of the plane
I mostly play as CAS, and I agree that something needs to be done to reign them in a bit. Personally I'm in favor of removing their airspawns and forcing all aircraft in GFRB to takeoff from the runway with an exception for allowing floatplanes to airspawn a few dozen meters above the runway a few dozen kph above their stall speeds. All that extra energy that planes just spawn with for free is a tremendous boon. By forcing them to takeoff, you either force planes to spend several minutes gathering energy while climbing to a safe altitude before approaching the battlefield, or else they'll be low, slow, and easy targets for AAA if they opt to directly approach the battlefield instead. Either way it will take longer for a plane to return to the battlefield and make it harder to revenge bomb since you'll have more time to reposition before the planes arrive. Removing air spawns hurts heavy CAS and bomber planes more than it does light air superiority fighters.
Maybe give SPAAGs the arcade point of aim indicator within a few hundred meters too.
Spawn in a fighter.
@@Gustav_Kuriga I generally am. The best CAS planes are fighters with enough ordnance to kill tanks. Like my AU-1 with its 7000lbs of bombs split between six distinct drops and cannons that will shred panthers, or my G91 and its Nords that can slap a tank from several kilometers away.
When the game removes the air spawn for hight/top tier CAS in air RB, now the true skill is required to aproach the enemy base, bomb and return safe to AF, so could be a nice solution for low/mid lvl planes in ground RB
I feel like in last month planes are absolutely dominating the battlefield and the team which wins air battle is winning the game and tankers has no chance ti fight against it
Gee it's almost like IRL where Air superiority determines ground superiority.
I wonder why those AA's and Interceptors exist.
@@SleeprunnerInc thats true, but playing against it is painfull
@@SleeprunnerInc we're not gonna talk about how ineffective was the CAS in real life... Especially against mobile objectives like tanks.... Like a really small percentage of tanks destroyed during ww2 goes to CAS, less percentage than things like AT guns, other tanks, infantry, etc... It was extremely ineffective, in war thunder CAS are super effective, destroying everything from light tanks to AA vehicles
@@SleeprunnerInc glad this is a video game (not real life) where we can move things around for balance reason.
@@SleeprunnerInc wrong. with rare exceptions, historically that was not the case.
Do some actual research, you'll find that for all of WW2, most of the cold war kill counts of armoured ground vehicles by planes was grossly over stated.
This wasn't stopped by air commanders, as it helped to get more resources, it was encouraged by the propagandists as it helped to build their own troops and civilian moral, and to try to reduce that of the enemy.
here's some actual facts.
bombs only 5% get within 140 metres
rockets 89% got within 140... but needed a direct hit to do any damage
guns 32 per 100 rounds actually hit... but required cannons, not MG's to do any damage.
Compare that to this game.
Also, you have to actually attain air superiority before CAS can be deployed, that process is completely side stepped in this game.
Actual stats for Normandy
July '44 @ La Balaine, planes claimed 17 hits, after battle analysis showed a max of 2 actually killed.
August '44 @ Mortain planes claimed 77 hits, after battle analysis showed a max of 9 actually killed.
Ardennes salient planes claimed 66 hits, after battle analysis showed a max of 7 actually killed.
Begorod-Kharkov Soviet planes claimed 270 tanks killed, ALL losses from all causes was actually 49, NONE WERE ATTRIBUTED TO PLANES, which the tankers described as just a nuisance.
Battle of Kursk Soviet Air Force claimed 3147 tanks knocked out.. Entire losses to all causes was 849
Battle of Kursk Soviet 1st tank army lost 648 tanks, LuftWaffe responsible for only 11
The English captured a Panther in '44, painted it white and put it in a field, Typhoons ( the British rocket ground attack plane of choice at the time) fired 64 rockets at it, only 3 hit. It wasn't moving, painted white and nobody shooting back. 0.5% accuracy.
They reckon to increase the possibility of hitting to around 50% they would need 18 Typhoons to fire 140 rockets.... 18 planes for a 50/50 chance to take out 1 unprotected, static tank
US did a similar test later on, using F86 with 16 rockets in a side attack on an unprotected Tank, and declared a 0.9% chance of a hit at 500 yards (not likely for a fast jet to be strafing that close anyway), 0.4 at a more normal 1000 yards, and 0.15 at 2000 yards
If the tank can fire back with a 50 cal equivalent MG, the hit chance drops to 0.45 at 500, 0.4 at 1000 and remained at 0.15 at 2000
Compare that "reality" to this game.
Suicide attacks were only condoned by the Japanese out of sheer desperation, and then only against high value targets, like ships. Every other combatant knows the cost of planes, pilots, crews and their training cost far far more than a single ground vehicle, but in this game it's the meta. Every game at least half the kills by planes is followed a few seconds later by that plane spearing into the ground.
The main effective use of air against ground was to soft targets, not tanks. But also psychological effects against inexperienced crews. Captured German crews said the worst effect was the sound of rockets.
US had air superiority for most of the Vietnam war, and lost. UN had air superiority for most of the Korean war, that didn't end with a victory either. Desert Storm is the only time that air power definitively decided the battle.
3:37 Gosh i feel you when you got bombed, i always hate it lmao
I don't understand why the Surbiassé didn't get the Foch reverse while having the same engine and feb gearbox. Anyone got any ideas? Just because it's pretty hard to use the Surbiassé in 7.7 with 0 armor and reverse + the cannon doesn't even have normal ammo, just a primitive APBC.... But you see in 7.7 with laser apfsds there are the French who don't have normal AP ammo either. But that's not the only problem with 7.7, it's that if they get an up br then the 1950's tanks are in a battle with these 1970's-80's tanks where only tru skill isue matters!
(And I played enough in my kedvent br with my favorite tank to see this clearly.)
No idea mate, but if it's true then I see no reason not to make it happen . Check sim battles, there's an option once a week to play against is4's and t54's with Surbiasse
5:46
lol that guy was rlly desperate
They have to make airplane spawn cost twice.
That would be great
To be fair 2x would be too much more like 1.5x imo because the second air spawn is like 1100sp and nuke is like 2500sp
"Let the HATE flow through you"....had me laughing so hard
🤣🤣🤣🤣
The best counter against CAS is actually to spawn a fighter yourself.
Not a good idea when you don't have same tier plane.
@@suthiraksb Even worse when you don't want to fly planes yourself and just play tanks
All I can do is a biplane fighter 😂
But what if you want to play a tank game? as advertised "ground" forces.
Saying that you have to play a ground force battle as a fighter to take out CAS is silly, defeats the purpose of playing the game in the first place.
If you want a combat flight simulator, there are many far better titles around.
I just opened youtube to see some of your vids and then BOOM NEW UPLOAD!!
The problem with completely removing CAS from Ground RB is that many attackers and kinds of ground ordinance become pointless in air RB, since that place is mostly a sweat fest for fighters with most attackers that actually try to ground pound becoming cannon-fodder in no time. Balancing is definitely needed, like maybe limiting the amount of planes (and helis) a team can have at one time, and increasing plane (and heli) SP costs, but I don't think it should be completely removed, since it will make both some attackers and some SPAA pointless.
I get your point, but honestly I enjoy ground attackers in air RB, especially when playing with friends so that you can compensate the lack of maneuverability with superior fire power.
I also think anti air should be entirely redesigned to make it less shit against air target and less OP against ground target.
@@albero319 Understandable, I also enjoy flying attackers in air RB, but some of them can be a pain, especially when alone, and especially ones that can't really dogfight, because the heavy firepower and defensive gunners often times is not enough to ward off an entire swarm of fighters. Also, when it comes to SPAA, it really depends on design, some of them can be extremely scary if used by competent players, while others are quite useless in the AA role, and the same can be said for their AT role, it varies from case to case.
Planes shouldn't be removed, but they should be totally rebalanced.
You can spawn in a plane by getting one kill and an assist! That's totally stupid.
Just by doing that, you get access to a vehicle that can easily get you 3 kills.
CAS is exploited way to much, revenge bombing is one of the worst ways to die in this game.
Bombs could also be nerfed, so players need to be more accurate with them to destroy tanks.
@@carlblack8574 try sim tanks, where both tanks and air spawn are limited by gaijin
How about an actual mode just for tanks and just rename current ground rb into mixed battle
Dollars team: I will help u at any cost
My team: U have a new enemy my friend
17 sec, im hawe fast hands, didnt Even watch vid but i already know that its gonna be nice
I quit WT two weeks ago for this very reason. Before you say that noone really quits WT, much like heroin, I truly think I have quit for good this time. I could deal with every other piece of $hit this game handed me, but CAS was just too much, I couldn't take it anymore. I left with 45days of Premium left, and just don't care...I am done. However, thanks for taking the pain Dollar and making fucking awesome vids, they crack me up. Cheers from Australia.
I think the real problem with CAS is how fast you can spawn a plane with a ton of bombs, people just run to the enemy get 1 kill or 1 cap and spawn in planes getting everyone early, I really think that we should have a specific time from the beginning of the match were no planes are allowed, or a significant rise in price to spawn a plane
or just make them take off the airfield and not airspawn
Small advice from your small clip trying to shoot planes down with the French SPAA:
1. Always shoot them when they try to strafe you after spawning. It's one easy clap.
2. Don't move for as long as possible. Make them notice you, and also try to strafe you. Then shoot them.
Using spawn protection I can usually kill 3 planes before I can actually be killed.
This is advice from someone who straight up got into planes with the singular purpose of killing CAS.
Great video as per usual!
Just increase plane spawn cost based on plane performance Or have it so it's expensive AF early game to spawn a plane and when your team is close to losing like 20% tickets left then planes become cheap so they have a way to turn the tide.
The problem is that encouraging players to go into planes when the team is down on tickets will make it less likely that they have enough tanks to push to cap (to then bring tickets back)…
@@zanaduz2018 It already is like that.
It would not change anything except rewarding those who actually are skillfull and lowering CAS spam.
Cause they could not suicide bomb near the end of the game since they would most likely be down to just the plane or be out of points anyways.
great video, loved the Bubbles ( trailer park boys ) image xD
14:53
If anyone wants to remove/create a no CAS/Planes mode on Ground RB , they should also remove SPAA. They lost their main purpose.
Actually some SPAA have pretty darn good penetration rounds and mobility, so they can play gunst tanks, like the 2S6 Tunguska, or the PGZ something from China
just create a separate tanks only mode if combined arms dies out then maybe gaigen should sort out the cas/tanks meta so people actually want put up with it
Except in "gaijin land" SPAA is better at removing tanks than planes (except the vehicles with anti air missiles only)
@@iffracem The "SPAA is a TD, and SPG is an SPAA" meta. The reason on why SPAA should also be removed from Ground Vehicles Only Mode. If CAS are cancer, SPAA are even more so.
Dollar's reaction at 7:28 is hilarious
Planes are not an issue if they stay in air RB
But ground RB would be missing something without planes
They need to up their SP prices a lot
You are always calm outside while going nuts inside. That's why we love you
oh yeah 😂
Gotta say, I love planes in GRB, even when I face them, but the spawn cost for them (and helos) is WAYYYYY too low. You should not be seeing a CAS plane armed with a full load 2 minutes into a match because a light tank got a scouting assist and died.
However the issue is most likely rooted in the fact that the matches are too short to make them far more expensive, and the maps are too small to support a longer match. I personally feel like a way to fix this would be to drastically lower ground forces spawn cost and rep cost to encourage players to respawn in tanks, and raise the spawn cost of aircraft by approximately 1.5ish times.
Just so you know I am one of the few people that immediately go for a clean fighter with no bombs or rockets and just try to protect teammates from enemy CAS.
In my opinion, the lack of a good AA (SPAA) in the BR 4.3 - 8.0 is the problem. In this BR the planes gets better and better and you can only counter it with fighters
This has to be the most painful war thunder video I have watched. It just shows how easy it is for aircraft to pick off tanks in ground rb.
You comforted me with the fact that I am not the only one who is so unlucky
I buy all my stuff through your link. It's not much for support, but better than nothing. My fav WT-content maker!
I've been looking forward to this
Return of Cool French boy
There are not many things in life better than sitting on your chair eating cake on you birthday while watching dollar play war thunder
CAS can be fun, but I think it should be a option to go into matches that dont allow air spawns.
the naked gun reference is perfect.
1:30 they say that in order to remove this moment, the author of the video accelerated it 10 times
Merci monsieur pour ce délicieux petit gameplay de notre France 😋😋
I love the police squad clips, my dad showed me a bunch a little earlier this week.
The problem with planes in ground isnt helped by most pilots in my experience being completely brain dead and a lot of good dog fighters not really having anything approaching a good bomb load, so you have a choice between something with a good bomb load or something thats a good dog fighter. That dog fighter really being needed in the small engagement areas that the ground maps have if you want to fly cover.
For me over the 8.3 br 60% of times I get killed by helis or jets and I must say I feel great