The Doom rules are really only their for a single reason: make sure my newly painted monster gets to roll some dice in combat before I have to take it off! All Doom really does is take all the wounds and resolve them at the end of the turn, so murder is simultaneous, but simple to deal it. Things can die, but they get their turn to do stuff before they do. It's honestly such a good feeling to know something is a dead-man walking and still get to do something heroic or dramatic with it before it gets taking off. Much more cinematic, and solves the alpha-strike problem that 90% of minis games have.
@@planetsmashergames I get that now after seeing the game in action. I was initially mostly turned off by the 40k style "I go you go" turn structure but that's why a Learn to Play is great, you get a REAL taste of the game. Also, much better to support small/single games creators rather than the corporate behemoth that is GW. Thanks for taking the time to reply man! Cheers!
No problem! Technically, its actually a phased system, rather than an IGOUGO system, as you don't have to watch me do everything with my whole army, only one phase. I choose that structure very particularly, so that we can have a big sweeping battle line movement, and set up a strategic puzzle for the opponent, but not have to sit out of the game for chunks at a time.
@ Hah! Well played Sir. And it’s that phase system that wins the day. Don’t think I can ever go back to the old ways. And thanks for the reply, reminded me to pick up the game. Been a little awful here in the US
Awesome battle report. Seeing more of these makes me eager to use Hobgoblin to both indoctrinate my 9yo into wargaming, and maybe even to teach my 70yo father and resurrect the feelings of my youth of him playing Battlemaster with me.
Nice! Yes. I have taught the game to kids at conventions over the last year, and honestly, evoking the feelings of those early games of Battlemasters as a kid was very much the vibe, so glad that resonates with you!
So, a unit can move after its been engaged so long as it remains engaged, and it can move into a 'flanking' position? Does that mean any unit that is charged can move into the units flank before combat (if there is space)? Does flanking require another unit to be in combat or just my unit in the target units flank? at 34:30 you also move a unit out of being flanked. Moving second seems good. Good demo, i'm interesting, love how fast it plays.
@@HasteHobbies That is correct! Disengaging is covered on page 44 of the Hobgoblin rulebook. “Units that start their movement activation engaged with an enemy unit must end that activation engaged with it, or they count as disengaging from that enemy unit. They can temporarily leave contact with the unit as part of their manoeuvres, but must end the activation back in contact with it, or count as disengaging.” Flanking is referred to as “Outmaneuvering” on page 45. It seems to only require one unit engaged in the flank or rear, not multiples. “If your unit is in base-contact with a side edge, rear edge or rear corner of an enemy unit, it has outmanoeuvred it, and the enemy unit gains the Outmanoeuvred weakness.” “Outmaneuvered: Weakness. Reserved. This unit reduces its Courage by 1 for each enemy unit in base-contact with this unit’s side edges, rear edge or rear corners. This unit may not assign more than 5 attack dice to an enemy unit that is touching one of its side edges or rear corners. This unit may not assign more than 3 attack dice to an enemy unit that is touching its rear edge.”
@@zuzudakka so, unless I have other units besides me, moving into contact with an enemy is a downside? They can just scoot and I roll half as many dice and have 1 less hp?
@@HasteHobbiescharging into the fray alone is not always the most tactically sound maneuver. Maybe against slower “dwarf” units akin to those in this video, movement 4-6 might not allow them to counter-charge effectively. A light infantry or cavalry units have plenty of movement to play with though if presented the opportunity!
@@zuzudakka Sure. Other games in the genre tend to reward " getting the charge off " whereas like you say if I charge a fast unit I may end up getting flanked or charged in the rear myself by that same unit. Just a little counterintuitive I think not bad
Classic Citadel metal dwarfs! I will definitely make a house rule banning the disengaging of a unit from a front rank of an enemy and then slamming into the flank of the same enemy unit in the same action / turn. That makes NO sense. Lastly, I am still on the fence about missile weapons only being able to cause a maximum of 5 doom. I may modify that, as a house rule, so that extra rounds of shooting (and extra shooting units) can either cause additional doom to the same target beyond 5, or keep the doom tokens at 5 but force a leadership test to see if they break, only when the shooting would have increased the doom tokens to 10. If the Ld test is passed, the unit simply still has 5 doom tokens, but if failed, it breaks.
That sounds like a good house rule. In practice, you won't find it happens too much, but if it's not to your taste, totally cool to house rule. I prefer to think about it as a mechanical expression of the simultaneous action on the battlefield. In my head, it isn't that one unit moves into a frozen enemy unit, then the frozen enemy unit wakes up, and sidesteps into their flank, its that two huge messes of fantasy warriors charge towards each other, and in the chaos, one misjudges the position of the other, and that unit is able to capitalise on that, and get an advantageous position.
You can head to the Electi website to buy cards, or find me at Dragonmeet in London, or download the print & play cards here: planetsmashergames.com/news/print-play-hobgoblin-fortune-cards/
it was hilarious. I traveled up on the train, so didn’t pack any terrain or a mat, assuming the great Lord Thorpe would provide. He had neither a gaming board nor a mat, so we were close to playing on his bare kitchen table. His partner had a rummage in her craft supplies and pulled out that goblin green monster!
I like that. Cool idea for a house rule. Worth trying. The reason it isn't random is that I was Dead Serious about making a big-ass fantasy battle game take sub-90 minutes, and everywhere you put a dice roll or a moment of player handover is another little micro-slowdown that extends the game time. To get Hobgoblin to be as fast as it is I had to make little compromises and nips/tucks like this all over the game.
@@planetsmashergames yeah that makes a lot of sense, and is what I suspected. I just love those moments when the game runs away with itself, and would be happy to slow things down a tiny bit to allow for it.
At 8:51 the unit attacking has 3 cards in play on it. One is "Critical Hits", aka your 6's explode. "Explode" to me neans you get to roll another dice. However, I don't see you guys using that effect. Am I right? It looks like "explode" in this game means it counts twice. I see the sixes being counted as two hits.
Because you don't remove individual models, theoretically you can play this by printing out a top down picture of a unit of troops. The unit is either on the table as a whole, or removed as a whole. No need to remove individual guys. A single picture would work for a demo game.
Good stuff. Have played two games of Hobgoblin - lost both times - don't care. Really fun game. Waiting for physical copies of the rules to arrive on the website.
I believe so. Electi is just getting through the KS fulfilment, and then it will be available in the UK (I've already seen it listed on the WHSmith and Waterstones websites).
I thought initiative would be decided by who most recently painted a mini (like who pooed most recently in Cards Against Humanity) Also, who smashes dice? I mean it certainly looks cool. But if you don't need them, or that tank, you can send them my way
Haha, yeah. It's still baaaasically a roll off, but its a roll-off that never gets tied, and ice-breaks a conversation about what hobby you have done recently, so that's nice.
Here's the thing with alternate activations: they are not a better solution for every game. And my selection of this hybrid phased activation system is very specific. In full-force activation systems (IGOUGO), you get a massive exchange of game state. I get to make a big change to my army, and you don't get to interrupt it. That's good for strategically-focused games, but has the well-known and massive downside of large player downtime. In partial-force activation systems (alternative activation), you get a tiny little exchange of game state. You can't execute a major strategic plan, you can just move a single unit, and often that means just tackling the most immediate and pressing threat. The upside: we both play regularly, the downsides: we can't make big or clever plans, as we are constantly interrupting each other. Also, each time we handover gameplay, their is an opportunity for tempo drop ("it's your go. Mike, it's you go) which can make the game's playtime longer. My choice of a hybrid phased activaiton system is trying to find (for a mass battle game) the right balance between strategic gameplay, keeping both players involved (the fortune cards also help with this), limited player handover moments, swift gameplay, short total game time. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, my textbook is out in November: www.routledge.com/The-Fundamentals-of-Tabletop-Miniatures-Game-Design-A-Designers-Handbook/Ford-Hutchinson/p/book/9781032324012
I was a bit leery about the Doom rules but after seeing the game in action I believe I’ll pick up a set of rules. Looks fun!
The Doom rules are really only their for a single reason: make sure my newly painted monster gets to roll some dice in combat before I have to take it off!
All Doom really does is take all the wounds and resolve them at the end of the turn, so murder is simultaneous, but simple to deal it. Things can die, but they get their turn to do stuff before they do. It's honestly such a good feeling to know something is a dead-man walking and still get to do something heroic or dramatic with it before it gets taking off. Much more cinematic, and solves the alpha-strike problem that 90% of minis games have.
@@planetsmashergames I get that now after seeing the game in action. I was initially mostly turned off by the 40k style "I go you go" turn structure but that's why a Learn to Play is great, you get a REAL taste of the game. Also, much better to support small/single games creators rather than the corporate behemoth that is GW. Thanks for taking the time to reply man! Cheers!
No problem! Technically, its actually a phased system, rather than an IGOUGO system, as you don't have to watch me do everything with my whole army, only one phase. I choose that structure very particularly, so that we can have a big sweeping battle line movement, and set up a strategic puzzle for the opponent, but not have to sit out of the game for chunks at a time.
@ Hah! Well played Sir. And it’s that phase system that wins the day. Don’t think I can ever go back to the old ways. And thanks for the reply, reminded me to pick up the game. Been a little awful here in the US
Brilliant stuff. More batreps please!
At least two more cued up for editing, so you will have your wish.
Glad to see more live Hobgoblin gameplay. A fine pair of gentlemen to command the armies as well.
Thank you sir!
Awesome battle report. Seeing more of these makes me eager to use Hobgoblin to both indoctrinate my 9yo into wargaming, and maybe even to teach my 70yo father and resurrect the feelings of my youth of him playing Battlemaster with me.
Nice! Yes. I have taught the game to kids at conventions over the last year, and honestly, evoking the feelings of those early games of Battlemasters as a kid was very much the vibe, so glad that resonates with you!
These rules look really super fun! Love it so far :) Need to see how to stat my skaventide box for hobgoblin
You can have a play around with that in the army builder app right away, without the book, if you fancy: hobgoblin.indietabletop.club/
The Slayers should have gotten their Who's Next in the first doom phase.
Yes! And so should the goblin infantry at the end when they beat the cannon!
Esoteric Order of Gamers also has a BR
And a very fun one too. th-cam.com/video/bWDNKWvj9Dk/w-d-xo.html
Watching how the cards work really sold this for me. I'll have to buy a copy.
Awesome. Yeah, the cards make the game simple and surprising, rather than just simple. I find them so fun.
So, a unit can move after its been engaged so long as it remains engaged, and it can move into a 'flanking' position? Does that mean any unit that is charged can move into the units flank before combat (if there is space)? Does flanking require another unit to be in combat or just my unit in the target units flank?
at 34:30 you also move a unit out of being flanked. Moving second seems good.
Good demo, i'm interesting, love how fast it plays.
@@HasteHobbies That is correct! Disengaging is covered on page 44 of the Hobgoblin rulebook.
“Units that start their movement activation engaged with an enemy unit must end that activation engaged with it, or they count as disengaging from that enemy unit. They can temporarily leave contact with the unit as part of their manoeuvres, but must end the activation back in contact with it, or count as disengaging.”
Flanking is referred to as “Outmaneuvering” on page 45. It seems to only require one unit engaged in the flank or rear, not multiples.
“If your unit is in base-contact with a side edge, rear edge or rear corner of an enemy unit, it has outmanoeuvred it, and the enemy unit gains the Outmanoeuvred weakness.”
“Outmaneuvered: Weakness. Reserved. This unit reduces its Courage by 1 for each enemy unit in base-contact with this unit’s side edges, rear edge or rear corners. This unit may not assign more than 5 attack dice to an enemy unit that is touching one of its side edges or rear corners. This unit may not assign more than 3 attack dice to an enemy unit that is touching its rear edge.”
@@zuzudakka so, unless I have other units besides me, moving into contact with an enemy is a downside? They can just scoot and I roll half as many dice and have 1 less hp?
@@HasteHobbiescharging into the fray alone is not always the most tactically sound maneuver.
Maybe against slower “dwarf” units akin to those in this video, movement 4-6 might not allow them to counter-charge effectively.
A light infantry or cavalry units have plenty of movement to play with though if presented the opportunity!
@@zuzudakka Sure. Other games in the genre tend to reward " getting the charge off " whereas like you say if I charge a fast unit I may end up getting flanked or charged in the rear myself by that same unit. Just a little counterintuitive I think not bad
In full sized games you can bring buddies to cover your flank. Chasing light calvary on foot is dangerous.
this is sick
Oh hey! Thanks dude. Love your channel by the way.
@ Ty your games rule 🖤
Classic Citadel metal dwarfs! I will definitely make a house rule banning the disengaging of a unit from a front rank of an enemy and then slamming into the flank of the same enemy unit in the same action / turn. That makes NO sense. Lastly, I am still on the fence about missile weapons only being able to cause a maximum of 5 doom. I may modify that, as a house rule, so that extra rounds of shooting (and extra shooting units) can either cause additional doom to the same target beyond 5, or keep the doom tokens at 5 but force a leadership test to see if they break, only when the shooting would have increased the doom tokens to 10. If the Ld test is passed, the unit simply still has 5 doom tokens, but if failed, it breaks.
That sounds like a good house rule. In practice, you won't find it happens too much, but if it's not to your taste, totally cool to house rule.
I prefer to think about it as a mechanical expression of the simultaneous action on the battlefield. In my head, it isn't that one unit moves into a frozen enemy unit, then the frozen enemy unit wakes up, and sidesteps into their flank, its that two huge messes of fantasy warriors charge towards each other, and in the chaos, one misjudges the position of the other, and that unit is able to capitalise on that, and get an advantageous position.
Awesome we've been playing Hobgoblin in 10mm where can we get printed cards & tokens
You can head to the Electi website to buy cards, or find me at Dragonmeet in London, or download the print & play cards here: planetsmashergames.com/news/print-play-hobgoblin-fortune-cards/
nice bright green tablecloth. just like 1992 !
it was hilarious. I traveled up on the train, so didn’t pack any terrain or a mat, assuming the great Lord Thorpe would provide. He had neither a gaming board nor a mat, so we were close to playing on his bare kitchen table. His partner had a rummage in her craft supplies and pulled out that goblin green monster!
Gav Thorpe playing Dwarves? How unexpected!
I like the Doom-splash for panic. Very much what I would expect to happen in any sort of linear warfare.
Yeah! Gotta have those chain-reactions, that's much of the cinema of mass battle games.
I sorta wish it were more random though, like D3-1 doom for each unit or something.
I like that. Cool idea for a house rule. Worth trying.
The reason it isn't random is that I was Dead Serious about making a big-ass fantasy battle game take sub-90 minutes, and everywhere you put a dice roll or a moment of player handover is another little micro-slowdown that extends the game time. To get Hobgoblin to be as fast as it is I had to make little compromises and nips/tucks like this all over the game.
@@planetsmashergames yeah that makes a lot of sense, and is what I suspected. I just love those moments when the game runs away with itself, and would be happy to slow things down a tiny bit to allow for it.
At 8:51 the unit attacking has 3 cards in play on it. One is "Critical Hits", aka your 6's explode. "Explode" to me neans you get to roll another dice. However, I don't see you guys using that effect. Am I right? It looks like "explode" in this game means it counts twice. I see the sixes being counted as two hits.
Because you don't remove individual models, theoretically you can play this by printing out a top down picture of a unit of troops. The unit is either on the table as a whole, or removed as a whole. No need to remove individual guys. A single picture would work for a demo game.
Good stuff.
Have played two games of Hobgoblin - lost both times - don't care. Really fun game.
Waiting for physical copies of the rules to arrive on the website.
Thanks!
The Slayers are left standing there, looking around and asking, "Where the **** did everyone go?"
While Mike forgets to remember the "Who's Next?" rule!
Was great seeig the rules in action! Is there a UK stockist or distributor for Hobgoblin books and cards?
I believe so. Electi is just getting through the KS fulfilment, and then it will be available in the UK (I've already seen it listed on the WHSmith and Waterstones websites).
@@planetsmashergames Amazing news! I will look forward to getting hold of a copy as soon as I can!
Cool game. Where can I find full music for that intro?
Thanks, I’m glad you dig it. My lil brother wrote and recorded the intro music specially for my channel. Sounds rad, right!?
@planetsmashergames it is heavy metal, for sure
Any idea where I can get myself a physical copy of the game?
Electi is just getting through the KS fulfilment, and then the physical copies are available again.
Gav? The warhammer lore author? AHHHHH we're invading Estalia with THIS ONE, gentlemen!
The very same. Take a shot!
I thought initiative would be decided by who most recently painted a mini (like who pooed most recently in Cards Against Humanity)
Also, who smashes dice? I mean it certainly looks cool. But if you don't need them, or that tank, you can send them my way
Haha, yeah. It's still baaaasically a roll off, but its a roll-off that never gets tied, and ice-breaks a conversation about what hobby you have done recently, so that's nice.
Were you executing those dice "Pour encourager les autres?"
Only way they'll learn...
My second child is named after gavin......... just saying.
Thanks for the battle report.
He was my one of my gaming heroes growing up, it's so rad to get to hang out now.
oh NOOO no alternate activations?
Here's the thing with alternate activations: they are not a better solution for every game. And my selection of this hybrid phased activation system is very specific.
In full-force activation systems (IGOUGO), you get a massive exchange of game state. I get to make a big change to my army, and you don't get to interrupt it. That's good for strategically-focused games, but has the well-known and massive downside of large player downtime.
In partial-force activation systems (alternative activation), you get a tiny little exchange of game state. You can't execute a major strategic plan, you can just move a single unit, and often that means just tackling the most immediate and pressing threat. The upside: we both play regularly, the downsides: we can't make big or clever plans, as we are constantly interrupting each other. Also, each time we handover gameplay, their is an opportunity for tempo drop ("it's your go. Mike, it's you go) which can make the game's playtime longer.
My choice of a hybrid phased activaiton system is trying to find (for a mass battle game) the right balance between strategic gameplay, keeping both players involved (the fortune cards also help with this), limited player handover moments, swift gameplay, short total game time.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, my textbook is out in November: www.routledge.com/The-Fundamentals-of-Tabletop-Miniatures-Game-Design-A-Designers-Handbook/Ford-Hutchinson/p/book/9781032324012
Dwarf warriors in full armor with shields... Light infantry? i know its his first list but come on lol
IKR
They just skipped their breakfast