Elite retrospective: Space odyssey | NES Works Gaiden #16
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2020
- By patron request of Jon, it's our first (of likely a fair few) full look at a European exclusive for NES: Imagineer's impressive conversion of British microcomputer classic Elite. I won't even pretend to show off the full depth of the game here; it's a complex and intricate game that requires extensive play to master, whereas I struggle with not dying at the hands of marauders the instant I come out of warp in a system local to the game's starting point.
I may not be adept at this particular simulation, but I can recognize how impressive a conversion this is... even if the hardware REALLY wasn't designed for it.
Video Works is funded via Patreon ( / gamespite ) - support the show and get access to every episode up to two weeks in advance of its TH-cam debut! And be sure to check out the Retronauts podcast (www.retronauts.com), where I (and many others!) tackle a much wider array of classic gaming topics each week. - เกม
![บุษบา - วงชานเมือง [LiveCoverVertion] Original : เมนทอล](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Dm81sKcd9rs/mqdefault.jpg)
Crazy to think the original Elite, with all its galaxies, took up less memory than your average jpeg.
Thanks for this episode. Nice to see European-exclusive NES games covered. The SNES had trouble with computer ports, so an NES port of a computer game is definitely an ambitious thing.
The way they used the tileset graphics of the NES to re-create the vector graphics is absolutely incredible.
Yeah, once you know how the NES renders graphics, you get that this is absolutely wizardry.
If the Virtual Boy had been more popular, someone would have probably tried to port Elite to it. That would have been basically the perfect application of the technology.
Now THIS was something I never knew existed, and I love my Microcomputer gubbins. I'm from the UK as well, so I really don't have an excuse.
Actually you DO have an excuse if you're from the UK. From what I hear the NES just was not popular over there so it makes sense you probably wouldn't have heard about it until now. Hell, I grew up with the NES and didn't know about it until a year ago
@@officernarc Yeah, suppose so. Great find though!
Wow, this game looks pretty ahead of its time with how complex the system is. Surprised it got an NES port. Wish it was released stateside, I think I would've gotten fully enthralled into it. Graphically it looks pretty nice too, with the 3dish models. Early star fox.
4:10 Argonaut were making their own vector style Elite knock-offs long before they touched consoles, their Starglider series on the Amiga/Atari ST were highly praised!
Sure, I'm well aware of their pre-Star Fox history. My suggestion is simply that this Elite port helped pave the way for games with this graphical tech to appear on consoles rather than computers only.
I love Argonaut's Elite inspired game Ekkusu so much, I even imported the Gameboy cartridge and used a gamefaqs English translation.
That said I really want to get into Elite as well because it inspired this other game that I love... that said, I just couldn't get into it, I wish someone would make a walkthrough that actually explained it to me. I don't understand Elite!! Haha. But I do respect it so much
"Unlike Wizardry that claim dosen't have the original creators' endorsement behind it."
Ian Ball calls it the best 8-bit Elite on his home-page. He also called it his "favourite published conversion" in an interview, thought he might be regarding it mostly for it's technical accomplishments. He does however also note on his site that the Archimedes version is "regarded by many as the best ever version".
I'm about the same age as you with the same passion for retro gaming. I've seen a lot of games on a lot of platforms but I never knew this existed. It's not my bag but I'm beyond impressed that this is running on an NES. Thanks for putting the good word out as always!
I'm delighted you covered this, Elite is an astonishing feat and one of the very best of its era. The only benefit to be A PAL NES gamer.
The NES port of _Elite_ wasn't the only _attempt_ at a port of _Elite_ to a console - there are also unfinished ports for the Game Boy and MegaDrive/Genesis - although the strangest lack of a port has to be that there was no port for the Macintosh (which would have been perfectly capable of running it, as evidenced by the port of the original _Star Wars_ arcade game).
I can understand not managing to make a Gameboy version work, but not finishing the MD/Gen version is a little odd. Like with the Mac, the M68000 CPU would have been more than capable of running the game, at least with wireframes.
I would say that the lack of Mac version is probably due to just how expensive those machines were in the UK/Europe at the time, so very few people had them.
@@deanolium Possibly, but there was port of _Elite_ for the Apple II, and I've never even _seen_ an Apple II in Europe…
Whereas Mega Drive was huge in Europe, so a real missed opportunity there.
@@JeremyParish Though no-where near as much as the C64/Amiga/Atari ST - at least in the UK, since we didn't really have the migration to consoles until really the Playstation. I wonder if poor sales of the NES version caused the MD version to be cancelled? It would have also been competing against Frontier at the time, which was in all the major gaming magazines so a lot of console gamers would have known about it.
The Apple ][ version looks like it was done to try and break into the US market. It wouldn't have been that hard to port over, since the Apple ][ isn't that different to the BBC - it's mainly the screen addressing which would need to be recoded.
I am a big fan of the channel changing effect you've been using lately. Can't imagine playing Elite on NES, Its like a port of Excel to NES.
No, it's widely thought to be the best version of the game
@@Phantoon having played the computer version I can't imagine how it would work on NES
Spent my entire childhood referring to this game as EE-LIGHT.
The guy at 1:40 looks like he could be a long lost Parish family member lmao.
I got really into this game only recently. If anyone feels like checking it out, strongly recommend ArcElite. The BBC Micro and NES versions are pretty cool in their own right, though.
Also gotta give a special shoutout to the unreleased Wilmunder Star Raiders II for the Atari 800, similar game that sadly didn't see the light of day until recently.
They'd apparently also prototyped the game on the SNES, Genesis, and Game Boy. I think you can download one or some of those on Ian Bell's website (along with ROMs of all other versions of Elite).
Top notch. The amount of research you put into each video is always excellent. Thank you! I appreciate you and your unique perspective and voice.
Did anyone get the galactic mission where you had to hunt down a pirate? To travel to other galaxies, you had to buy a galactic hyperdrive and if you wanted to see the Thargoids, you had to hold down all the buttons. The games title matched the quality of the game. 8 galaxies on the NES 8-bit. Only made it to status Deadly but killed the pirate.
Hard agree that had I encountered this game in a timely manner it would have been all-engrossing but I can't say I could see myself picking it up in the present day.
The modern remake is Elite:Dangerous. I'd recommend checking it out. (Don't watch the official trailers, they make it look like an action game and it ain't. It's much more along the lines of space trucker -- though there is combat in it).
Never heard of this one until this video, it does seems kind of impressive for a NES cart
I really like your new format. It's classy. 🙂
I've seriously been waiting for this! This is one of my favorite nes games.
what a great pick from a patron!
"Episode 1337" - ISWYDT
I knew of Elite but astonished I had no idea about this NES port
As a random aside, I honestly found that the Gold Box D&D conversion noted in the video actually did work well on NES.
Wow I've never even heard of this game, that's actually astounding! What a super cool game
Ashamed to say I never ever heard of this one but this was an excellent learning experience.
I actually own the unreleased NTSC prototype of this game. I have the original chip and the dump works on my Everdrive N8 but I can't seem to get it working on a donor cart like NES Open Tournament Golf or Shingen the Ruler.
Since much was made of the control scheme, I will point out that the NTSC prototype tackles it very different. As I recall, it uses the A & B buttons to move the cursor left or right and then you need to press start or select or something to pick the option. There is no music so it seems this was the input method they abandoned before finalizing the PAL version and not one they were considering afterwards.
Lunar Chase is also known as X in Japan. A DSi version was released on the Nintendo eShop in 2010, which had the title X-Scape.
th-cam.com/video/1NiK-eghxi8/w-d-xo.html
Cheerz, thanks for shining a light on Elite, I much appreciate it. Shame the NES version is so unplayable cos of the controls.
Is there any reason why you picked Channel 8 for all the random clips?
“Just because”
A pleasant surprise for video topics today.
Super kick partyyy! Oh shit wrong Elite
Jeremy’s killing the business
I never played this version, but I did play the DOS Elite Plus somewhere around this time. It was a "modernized" remake that upgraded the game to full filled polygonal graphics and 256 colors. It was definitely interesting, although the big problem for long-term play is the complete lack of any plot or other accomplishments aside from watching your ranking slowly crawl upwards. It's one of those games where, once you've played for a few hours and gotten a handle on the mechanics, you've basically seen all it has to offer.
(This is, of course, not to in any way besmirch its original accomplishments in 1984. Just saying that even by 1991 it already felt somewhat old-fashioned, especially with games like Wing Commander pushing graphical and storytelling boundaries.)
There's a little bit more, as Elite Plus had secret missions that would trigger when you hit certain thresholds. These 'missions' could involve having to deliver secret plans, or getting a hold full of Tribbles. Still, compared to Wing Commander, it's lacking. The lack of much to do beyond improving your rank was a big issue with Frontier (the 16bit sequel). The third game - Frontier: First Encounters - tried to fix this by having an involved series of missions from the start; however that game was a hot mess in so many ways.
@@deanolium Man, Frontier was absolutely amazing on a technical level. I'm a little sad it isn't very well-remembered these days. I mean, it had seamless transitions from spaceflight to atmospheric exploration, even planetary landings, *on a 386.* That's nuts. Not to mention the Newtonian orbital simulation. I never got very far in it, but I've got fond memories of doing things like landing on the dark side of Titan and watching Saturn-rise.
I have never played it but I understand the NES version has secret missions similar to the other 6502 versions that are triggered usually when you reach a certain rank/points. The MSX version that I did play had missions like evacuating people from a planet whose star was going supernova and fighting off a Thargoid invasion where you had to fight your way through the Thargoid fleet and destroy the space station they were using as a base. The original BBC version and other 8 bit computer versionscame with a novella ‘The Dark Wheel’ that provided a plot for the game
@@jasonblalock4429 Oh totally -- it was far bigger on the Amiga and Atari ST. The main problem however, beyond the lack of things to do once you've played it for a while, was that the Autopilot was awful when used with time skipping. The amount of times it would try to fly through a planet and would crash you... Also that it was on a single floppy disc was a fantastic feat.
@@JesterEric It was just really the Spectrum and BBC versions which didn't have the secret missions. However, the tradeoff was that the BBC original was faster and a little cleaner looking. Many hours was spent reading the novella as a kid.
I think I tried out the ROM at some point, when I was looking through lists of NES games and recognized that name. Also, I'm not someone who hates on Urban Champion, but your use of it here had me shaking with laughter. As did the reminder of what the Famicom was specifically designed for.
Ian Bell has the ROM for this version posted on his website. I play it on my phone. Unfortunately it's not compatible with the NES Classic Edition. I loaded on to mine and the bottom half of the screen is scrambled.
That's what happens when it runs in NTSC which is what the NES Classic emulates. The game uses tricks with the refresh rate and processor speed to display its graphics so if you're running it on an NTSC NES or an emulator that doesn't support PAL mode you'll get the corrupted graphics. The ROM on Bell's site says it's the unreleased NTSC ROM but apparently it was still a work in progress because it still needs to be in PAL to display properly.
I believe you can move the ship and the crosshair freely using two controllers, but I've never tried. Excellent video, as always!
This game looks like it'd play so well with a Joystick controller or NES Advantage controller. Now I REALLY wanna try it out myself, this looks really cool!!
Silent Service on the NES uses controller 2 for some much needed actions - you could play without it if you were not playing the harder modes though, that is one solution for the lack of buttons.
Great video as always! Out of curiosity, how did you record this one? I thought PAL games were not interoperable with NTSC NESes and televisions.
I use an Analogue Mini Nt, which can be switched to PAL, and I monitor/play on a Sony PVM which has seamless standard recognition. It’s pricey but handy for videos like this and the Probotector footage I captured this morning.
@@JeremyParish Nice, thanks for the info!
The (sometimes silent) channel changing effect almost gives these newer videos an unintentional horror vibe.
This is a crossover of creators that I wasn't expecting to see today. (Also I agree, it feels especially that way with the final transition for the wrap-up)
You keep saying the BBC was underpowered, but it had a 2 MHz 6502 processor, 200 kHz faster than the NES, and 16 times as much RAM as the NES.
The Beeb was underpowered compared to the other European micros at the time, potentially stating that instead of comparing. Still impressive tech for its good day.
@@kei_nishimaru In 1982? Not really. It was easily twice the performance of the C64, though it had less ram. It was a lot faster than the Spectrum, which also (supposedly) came out in 1982, though I don't think any actually shipped until 83. That 4 MHz RAM meant that the video system did not slow the processor down.
@@skonkfactory you could add a co processor of your choice to the bbc, making it one of the most powerful micro computers at the time, if you had the money, in fact someone used a raspberry Pi and run this very game on the BBC its really does fly lol
@@tattoodude232 I've been hacking on coprocessor-equipped BBCs for probably longer than most of the people on here have been alive...
@@skonkfactory I am 40 years old, when I was at school, I hated those machines, but it turns out, IT was not thought of as an important subject back in the 90s, so no teacher knew what they were doing on them, now thanks to youtube I know how powerful they can be, and what you can really do with them, there was no way the c64 or sinclare would have been used for the dooms day project.
That game is new to me. 😀👍🎮
Have you considered covering Exile on BBC Micro/Acorn on Metroidvania works? I remember Edge giving it an honorary 10/10 just like Elite.
This is one game I have never played.
Damn I never got a chance to play Elite. Also same here I never got a chance being Australian to play those computers popular in the UK Amstrad ZX Spectrum etc.
8:09 Just a small clarification, it wasn't UK exclusive. The copy you show at the start is PAL B, Spanish region and I think there are other PAL B versions. Although perhaps you just meant to say Europe instead of UK.
WOW ! (OoO)
P.S. What do you think about 3D games for the Game Boy Advance ?
Games like 007 Nightfire etc.
4:22 Oh, I see what the devs did there with the music!
Yeah, using Blue Danube for the docking sequences been a thing with Elite back to the beginning.
There's a sapce travel simulator on NES? That's impressive, i never heard about this
Space trade, not just travel!
I need more home-/micro-computer content. There were some neat ideas, sometimes.
I am waiting for a NES works episode!
This is NES Works, so... good news?
Haha
@@JeremyParish A non gaiden one. I like it when it’s more chronological. I also enjoyed this episode! Keep on the good work!
In two weeks for you @RobinDoggy that's the next regular NES Works episode.
What would be a better way to play the original? BBC Micro version emulated though BeebEm?
I have played it exactly like that and it works fine. ArcElite (can run through Arculator) is usually considered the best version of the original if you're not a stickler for purity.
I'm kind of reminded of Star Cruiser on Genesis.
Spent TOO many hours (days) playing Elite on BBC when i was young...
Thanks for this! I know it's wishful thinking - but I would really like to see you do an episode comparing all the European home computer ports of games like contra. Your thoughts on which was best out of the spectrum, cpc or c64 would be very interesting :) I would be interested to know how well it actually sold - it would have been for around 60 pounds where as elite on something like the speccy would have only been around 1.99 by that point.
Sorry, that's way out of scope in terms of both knowledge and capture setup.
@@JeremyParishI know sorry - but a lad can dream...is the neo geo pocket out of your scope?
Until there’s a capture solution, yes.
Retro Gamer magazine do things like that. I am pretty sure they have covered Contra / Gryzor. Maybe issue 176
Kim Justice has some video covering those sorts of ports as well. If you want UK Micro history, she has you covered :)
No offense. Much love!
And it's one of the games that are too complex for the NOAC. ^^'
Man, never heard of this game. Had no idea Elite Dangerous had a previous game before it.
Elite was the first. Then came Elite : Frontier. Then Dangerous.
There was also Elite First Encounters after Frontier. It’s is probably best forgotten about
How does one put in a “patron request”? I’m ready to move you right along to Tecmo Bowl and don’t mind dropping $1 to do it.
Sorry, that's not how it works. If you think 15-20 hours of my time is worth $1, I'm not sure what to say.
It's probably only for his highest tier patrons, so it would take significantly more than 100 pennies to get an entire video made
@@JeremyParish no worries, buddy. I can wait..two years?
It’s actually probably more like a year out.
Willyvania truther
Elite can't work in NTSC because the NES can't possibly run the game at 60fps
I don't think that is true.
Well yes, but actually no. The PAL NES runs at 50hz, but the main advantage it has is that VBLANK period is longer with PAL timings, allowing more CPU time per frame. There were NTSC prototype ROMs for an abandoned US release (including Ian Bell's own copy, posted on his Elite site), but none have been dumped and released so far that are capable of running on real hardware. So it's probably technically possible to run on NTSC hardware, it'd just require either a lot of coding work or the release of a better/later prototype dump.
Elite: legitimately the most over-rated game of all time. That doesn't mean it is garbage: "over-rated" and "garbage" are two separate but overlapping categories.
No. Not even close.
I mean it is clearly not everyone's cup of tea, space sims have never been, but it's highly influential and without it some of my favorite games of all time wouldn't have existed. Now you could say influential doesn't necessarily mean it was great, but at the time it sure was.
For the time it was absolutely amazing.
It might not be the most fun game for everyone but on a technical and design level it was lightyears ahead of its time and invented a genre.
It's one of the better NES games to be quite honest.