Having a musical style doesn’t preclude you from having battle energy, but it’s more rare. Codfish is a great example and that boi is a GBB champ for it.
I completely agree, I had Stitch top 3. So clean and unique. You appreciate it in the moment but when you think back on it (without watching the video) maybe there were too many pauses. Going first as well probably didn't help. I also found Blackroll a little bit messy and breathy. Love Pacmax and his stage presence is great but that routine felt a little bit weak and gimmicky. And I agree, counters were just ticking a box :/
yes battle energie is missenderstood like musical stuff can be battle wing did it in 2023 codfish in 2018 but this year no one did it but remix osis and me did it and that a battle i think its simple as that if you want complexe thing with smart structure just do or watch showcast but battle is battle you need to counter you need to get the hype and the energie that why the loudness is soooo important or you can beatbox like a god like colaps or river
My issue with GBB and the beatbox battle scene in general: - Too little individuality and innovation. Everyone copies the top 20 beatboxers. Can't even be mad about that, as that's a natural phenomenon in every artistic domain. - the "meta" this year was too technical/ "dry" for me. What I mean by this is that the emphasis was on loudness and basses - whereas aspects like musicality, harmonies, singing and unique vocal techs (like yours or Stitch's) weren't appreciated much. The mic settings also didn't seem to promote these, although I thought that Den and Stitch really sounded better than last time on GBB. The fact that Stitch didn't get in is mind-blowing to me. He's unique, nobody can do what he does, and if you ever tried his techniques you'll quickly realise that his tech is WAY more difficult than spamming lip roll and throat bass 😂 - the battle format in general is outdated, it can't be the stand alone / go to format for beatbox events. This worked ten years ago, it barely worked 5 years ago. Now that beatboxing has evolved to a more complete artform, it needs different formats. Imagine you go to a hip-hop festival and every artist would only be able to perform in battles...you see the issue? My proposal would be to host new beatbox events that are just about showcasing and full-length tracks. (Sorry, a 90 second battle routine is NOT a song imho). This doesn't mean to get rid of battles, of course, as those are also an essential part of the beatbox world.
To be fair, the overwhelming majority of Kaji’s rounds are technically unique and challenging. If he only did the drop you were talking about for a whole round, he wouldn’t win any battles.
I believe complexity and musicality should be weighed way higher than loudness. If we continue judging like this all the musical and delicate beatboxers will leave the competitive scene and all that's left is inward bass, click rolls and power snares.
I actually disagree. The power factor is a part of the hype factor, which is what the judges are actually judging. Technicality, Structure, Musicality, and the Hype factor (or the "wow"/surprise factor as people call it) are the main criteria. There shouldn't be any more weight on musicality or complexity if the round itself lacks the hype that the battle is about. They should have just about the same weight. An important distinction is that it's a battle in the end. If you go back to Rap battles, you'll find that no one ever ended up just singing for a whole round. It is a common idea that there should be more opportunities for beatboxers to simply showcase and have fun with music, but the laypeople aren't quite there yet in terms of musical tastes and hobbies.
@@josuoh9888 The fact that Stitch didn't pass eliminations this year is insane. Imagine putting so much time into a style you can't push on stage like your power house components for obivious reasons like the delicacy and fragileness. It's still loud, don't get me wrong, but you just can't push Stitch' sounds like the clickroll/liproll/inward bass styles. It discourages these beatboxers from developing their style and makes them not want to compete and then GBB becomes boring. I agree that all categories should be weighed equally but that's absolutely not what's been happening recently.
@@emilflarsen2 This is like debating who won a boxing match while one guy kept landing a bunch of weak but showy and the other landed a bunch of heavy hits. It is a battle, and if the majority of the people feels one side hit harder, they'll have the advantage no matter what. Now, if we want to objectively talk about Stitch's beatbox, he had a great elimination and he did quite a lot of dope beats. The main issue wasn't power since he used dynamics to highlight his peaks, and we all know how loud he actually is when he's in a battle. (I mean just look at him in Haten. You can't say that his style is holding him back at all.) I'd say the main problem was his breaks. They were a little awkward and killed his flow and crowd retention. I'm most certain that this is what made him not make the list over someone like Kaji. Also, Remix losing to Osis actually shows that power and loudness isn't actually weighted higher, and that there's a pretty equal balance around what the judges are looking at.
@@josuoh9888 I don't think you can compare beatbox to boxing at all. At the end of the day we're comparing music which is subjective in itself but it's still fairly possible in beatboxing as it's based on the live performance. The issue is not that Stitch isn't loud (because he is) but his sound palette just can't be pushed as hard as other styles. Sure he isn't without faults but that goes for every beatboxer. And regarding Remix vs Osis you're right, Remix was louder but the judges prefered Osis' complexity which is good to see. It was imo the closest battle in the whole competition and i could see both winning tbh. even though i'm a huge Osis fan. It's just important that we don't encourage beatboxers to try to push their sounds to the point where they lose clarity, cleanliness and their breath. And that has in fact been happening a lot the last few years. I believe you should be rewarded by the judges for developing cool styles and maintaining volume and energy throughout the entire round even though your sound palette may not allow you to peak the limiter.
@@emilflarsen2 I still don't think you understand that Stitch's sound palette is fine as is, and so is Wing's. Like none of the judges have ever discredited it nor said that not being able to break the sound system is a downside to their style. You keep emphasizing that power is all that's been pushed for when it seriously has not been the case. If it really was, then definitely Helium would've won against Osis, Remix would've won against Osis, and last year Napom would've been first place. The fact that we had Wing, Dilip, Ice, Julard, and Stitch at the top of the wildcards and in the last two GBBs goes to show that we're in a shift _towards_ musicality over simply power. The points Den made were that the overall level of the Solo Category (at least in his eyes) was lower than last year's, especially with their counters. The other point was that the sound system wasn't that great so people who used lower frequencies sounded a lot better and probably even clearer. Sound clarity with fresh structure has been a seriously big selling point in the last couple of years, and I don't understand why you keep thinking otherwise.
I agree with most of these takes tbh, caveman counters got me lmao Sidenote: i hate this new loudness meta, i get preferring fuller beats since some people cant achieve louder sounds but have no so many gaps in their routines/beats, but then people like osis may not be the "loudest" live but his beats are so full and complete
the event kinda showed the lack of veterans who usually do all the good counters lol but I agree with pretty much all you said. I do disagree with what you were saying about kaji sounding 1 dimensional, because hes pushing some of the most boundaries outta anyone even if he includes random basic drop parts. + his loudness has always been part of his style. but kaji is my goat so im bias lol also people def need to get over alexinhos beats a bit. even hes been doing similiar basic polys for like 10 years
To be honest compared with other gbbs this one in specific make me feel frustrated and insecure about what i love of beatbox, i mean, the beatbox i love isnt just loud sounds being the meta, like cmon Dlow in his elim in 2018 did a loud beat at the end as a joke and now is the whole thing of this gbb 😭😭😭😭
My opinion is, some questionable judging, but I think solo has gotten very boring, 2018 and 2019 had actual music, 2021 was good, 2023 and 2024 is no longer music, its just technique and being as loud as possible. I havent been able to enjoy solo beatbox since BBU. I still love loop because its becoming real music, solo is going downhill.
I think some of the “counters” double as taking the energy from the crowd early in the round which I think is just a good structural choice even if they aren’t very creative. As such I don’t have a problem with the counters this year
it’s funny because for me it was the opposite, i found gbb23 so boring and uninspiring, and since 2020 i kinda get more bored of beatbox everyday; but this one inspired me so much, it was so different, mostly underdogs, going back to basics and emphasis on volume and power made me want to beatbox for the whole week i don’t think the caveman beatbox was a regression, i just think people tried for the past for 4 years to focus on originality and sounds, to the point they lost the basics, and now it don’t works anymore, it forces everyone to up their game and i love that. It pushes beatbox forward
Having a musical style doesn’t preclude you from having battle energy, but it’s more rare. Codfish is a great example and that boi is a GBB champ for it.
I completely agree, I had Stitch top 3. So clean and unique. You appreciate it in the moment but when you think back on it (without watching the video) maybe there were too many pauses. Going first as well probably didn't help.
I also found Blackroll a little bit messy and breathy. Love Pacmax and his stage presence is great but that routine felt a little bit weak and gimmicky. And I agree, counters were just ticking a box :/
yes battle energie is missenderstood like musical stuff can be battle wing did it in 2023 codfish in 2018 but this year no one did it but remix osis and me did it and that a battle i think its simple as that if you want complexe thing with smart structure just do or watch showcast but battle is battle you need to counter you need to get the hype and the energie that why the loudness is soooo important or you can beatbox like a god like colaps or river
My issue with GBB and the beatbox battle scene in general:
- Too little individuality and innovation. Everyone copies the top 20 beatboxers. Can't even be mad about that, as that's a natural phenomenon in every artistic domain.
- the "meta" this year was too technical/ "dry" for me. What I mean by this is that the emphasis was on loudness and basses - whereas aspects like musicality, harmonies, singing and unique vocal techs (like yours or Stitch's) weren't appreciated much. The mic settings also didn't seem to promote these, although I thought that Den and Stitch really sounded better than last time on GBB. The fact that Stitch didn't get in is mind-blowing to me. He's unique, nobody can do what he does, and if you ever tried his techniques you'll quickly realise that his tech is WAY more difficult than spamming lip roll and throat bass 😂
- the battle format in general is outdated, it can't be the stand alone / go to format for beatbox events. This worked ten years ago, it barely worked 5 years ago. Now that beatboxing has evolved to a more complete artform, it needs different formats. Imagine you go to a hip-hop festival and every artist would only be able to perform in battles...you see the issue?
My proposal would be to host new beatbox events that are just about showcasing and full-length tracks. (Sorry, a 90 second battle routine is NOT a song imho). This doesn't mean to get rid of battles, of course, as those are also an essential part of the beatbox world.
I quite agree with you
Rightly said brother 🙌
To be fair, the overwhelming majority of Kaji’s rounds are technically unique and challenging. If he only did the drop you were talking about for a whole round, he wouldn’t win any battles.
Blackroll at 13th has to be rage bait, but apart from that good takes. Also 79 minutes of Napom glaze 😂
I believe complexity and musicality should be weighed way higher than loudness. If we continue judging like this all the musical and delicate beatboxers will leave the competitive scene and all that's left is inward bass, click rolls and power snares.
I actually disagree. The power factor is a part of the hype factor, which is what the judges are actually judging. Technicality, Structure, Musicality, and the Hype factor (or the "wow"/surprise factor as people call it) are the main criteria. There shouldn't be any more weight on musicality or complexity if the round itself lacks the hype that the battle is about. They should have just about the same weight.
An important distinction is that it's a battle in the end. If you go back to Rap battles, you'll find that no one ever ended up just singing for a whole round.
It is a common idea that there should be more opportunities for beatboxers to simply showcase and have fun with music, but the laypeople aren't quite there yet in terms of musical tastes and hobbies.
@@josuoh9888 The fact that Stitch didn't pass eliminations this year is insane. Imagine putting so much time into a style you can't push on stage like your power house components for obivious reasons like the delicacy and fragileness. It's still loud, don't get me wrong, but you just can't push Stitch' sounds like the clickroll/liproll/inward bass styles. It discourages these beatboxers from developing their style and makes them not want to compete and then GBB becomes boring. I agree that all categories should be weighed equally but that's absolutely not what's been happening recently.
@@emilflarsen2 This is like debating who won a boxing match while one guy kept landing a bunch of weak but showy and the other landed a bunch of heavy hits.
It is a battle, and if the majority of the people feels one side hit harder, they'll have the advantage no matter what.
Now, if we want to objectively talk about Stitch's beatbox, he had a great elimination and he did quite a lot of dope beats. The main issue wasn't power since he used dynamics to highlight his peaks, and we all know how loud he actually is when he's in a battle. (I mean just look at him in Haten. You can't say that his style is holding him back at all.) I'd say the main problem was his breaks. They were a little awkward and killed his flow and crowd retention. I'm most certain that this is what made him not make the list over someone like Kaji.
Also, Remix losing to Osis actually shows that power and loudness isn't actually weighted higher, and that there's a pretty equal balance around what the judges are looking at.
@@josuoh9888 I don't think you can compare beatbox to boxing at all. At the end of the day we're comparing music which is subjective in itself but it's still fairly possible in beatboxing as it's based on the live performance. The issue is not that Stitch isn't loud (because he is) but his sound palette just can't be pushed as hard as other styles. Sure he isn't without faults but that goes for every beatboxer.
And regarding Remix vs Osis you're right, Remix was louder but the judges prefered Osis' complexity which is good to see. It was imo the closest battle in the whole competition and i could see both winning tbh. even though i'm a huge Osis fan.
It's just important that we don't encourage beatboxers to try to push their sounds to the point where they lose clarity, cleanliness and their breath. And that has in fact been happening a lot the last few years. I believe you should be rewarded by the judges for developing cool styles and maintaining volume and energy throughout the entire round even though your sound palette may not allow you to peak the limiter.
@@emilflarsen2 I still don't think you understand that Stitch's sound palette is fine as is, and so is Wing's. Like none of the judges have ever discredited it nor said that not being able to break the sound system is a downside to their style.
You keep emphasizing that power is all that's been pushed for when it seriously has not been the case. If it really was, then definitely Helium would've won against Osis, Remix would've won against Osis, and last year Napom would've been first place.
The fact that we had Wing, Dilip, Ice, Julard, and Stitch at the top of the wildcards and in the last two GBBs goes to show that we're in a shift _towards_ musicality over simply power.
The points Den made were that the overall level of the Solo Category (at least in his eyes) was lower than last year's, especially with their counters. The other point was that the sound system wasn't that great so people who used lower frequencies sounded a lot better and probably even clearer. Sound clarity with fresh structure has been a seriously big selling point in the last couple of years, and I don't understand why you keep thinking otherwise.
pop off dave lmaooo
Sadly wasn’t here for the stream but hope it was a good one 💚
I agree with most of these takes tbh, caveman counters got me lmao
Sidenote: i hate this new loudness meta, i get preferring fuller beats since some people cant achieve louder sounds but have no so many gaps in their routines/beats, but then people like osis may not be the "loudest" live but his beats are so full and complete
the event kinda showed the lack of veterans who usually do all the good counters lol but I agree with pretty much all you said. I do disagree with what you were saying about kaji sounding 1 dimensional, because hes pushing some of the most boundaries outta anyone even if he includes random basic drop parts. + his loudness has always been part of his style. but kaji is my goat so im bias lol also people def need to get over alexinhos beats a bit. even hes been doing similiar basic polys for like 10 years
To be honest compared with other gbbs this one in specific make me feel frustrated and insecure about what i love of beatbox, i mean, the beatbox i love isnt just loud sounds being the meta, like cmon Dlow in his elim in 2018 did a loud beat at the end as a joke and now is the whole thing of this gbb 😭😭😭😭
Polli arequipeña
My opinion is, some questionable judging, but I think solo has gotten very boring, 2018 and 2019 had actual music, 2021 was good, 2023 and 2024 is no longer music, its just technique and being as loud as possible. I havent been able to enjoy solo beatbox since BBU. I still love loop because its becoming real music, solo is going downhill.
I agree, except for 2023, since River‘ won that one. Yeah he‘s very technical, but I also enjoy his musicality a loooot
elimination merchant back at it again
I think some of the “counters” double as taking the energy from the crowd early in the round which I think is just a good structural choice even if they aren’t very creative. As such I don’t have a problem with the counters this year
holy crap watching back this vod and seeing den asked me to change the "game" category... i'm so sorry my mom called for me :((
Respectfully Alexnihos elimination was for sure top 2 original the beatbox
it’s funny because for me it was the opposite, i found gbb23 so boring and uninspiring, and since 2020 i kinda get more bored of beatbox everyday; but this one inspired me so much, it was so different, mostly underdogs, going back to basics and emphasis on volume and power
made me want to beatbox for the whole week
i don’t think the caveman beatbox was a regression, i just think people tried for the past for 4 years to focus on originality and sounds, to the point they lost the basics, and now it don’t works anymore, it forces everyone to up their game and i love that. It pushes beatbox forward
cavemen bbx so accurate fckin tell them!!
42:00
Osis is just diferent
You're just mad you're not as loud as Cansun. GG lil bro
😭
true!