I was in the second or third row at Jemison, AL and right in front of Baker when he walked off the stage. I was shocked, but figured they would work things out after the show. I had no idea of the backstory and couldn't believe an era had ended. Baker was my fiddling idol at the time and much more important to me than Monroe.
You know, people rewrite history to make it more public compatible. I saw Frank Wakefield being interviewed about how he met Marsha. I was there when that went down. It was at Grass Valley. It was nothing like what they were saying. So, on this Baker video, I just think Baker didn't want to go into all the details of what was bugging him. There were lots of components. However, one issue that Baker was fuming about was that he was hired to do a workshop at a music store independent of Monroe. He was to be paid independent of anyone else. So, then Monroe shows up. After the workshop Monroe kept all the money. I guess Monroe felt that Baker was being paid already or he was just not thinking. When Baker quit, Monroe tried to save the situation by saying he would pay that money back to Baker. Baker told Monroe to keep the money and that he was gone. I remember it was much more colorful than how I just put it. This is what Baker told me. Baker had a unique relationship with Bill as far as pay goes. Baker was paid a salary, not by the show. At the next show which was in San Francisco where they wanted me to play fiddle, I saw the manager of the Music Hall tell Bill that in the future they would need to renegotiate the price if Baker was not going to be with the band. The Music Hall manager said that Baker was half of the draw to the shows and if he was not going to be there then... Monroe just looked down. You could see he was realizing the impact of Baker leaving right there.
I have heard others who played w/ Monroe say they were on salary and that when there weren't gigs, Monroe expected them to come work for him doing other thing things unrelated to music (like farm work).
@@jmoss99 If other band members were paid by the gig rather than by salary, there'd be no reason for them to work on the farm. The (former, iirc) Bluegrass Boy whose interview I read said he had joined the band to get away from farm work...irony. I wish I could recall where I read that interview...many years ago.
Sure, to get paid at all. J&J paid their members then had them get unemployment in the off season. The members were not paid much anyway. Farm people were used to not having a lot of money. However, at least Monroe paid for motels when they were on the road. Del's band slept in the bus and showered at truck stops. That was what Del told me when we were talking about me joining the band. Even my bands got motels for the members. Some of Bill's members did well with helping him with the cattle on plots of land that were given to him by fans. I am thinking of Wayne L. I think you would work for Monroe just to learn what he could teach you and for your resume. There is no way any of those band could match what I was making at the engineering manager in the Silicon Valley. It would be for the experience.
Check this out Dave. This is from one of my interviews with Lamar Grier. "Jim: When I first was with Bill, we made on each show date $25. That was the musicians union rate. A year later it went up to $30. The next year it went to $33 per show/day. How's them apples? I've heard of previous Bluegrass Boys saying that when living in Nashville, they were housed in the YMCA where they had a room. Then they had to call Bill on the phone daily to get enough money from him to get the days needs for meals - like $5. I had to get a part time job when we were back in Nashville for the days when we weren't on the road to pay the ongoing bills like rent & food needs for my family. Jimmy Martin found me a part time job at a convenience store working overnight for minimum pay at the time, just to acquire family needs. Needless to say, things markedly improved financially when I left & went back home to Maryland. I had a home there that I rented out while I was in Nashville & then moved back into that home when I returned there. I still live in that home. I soon got a job with IBM and stayed with them for about 17 years then got a better paying job in the U.S. Govt. until I retired in 1998. However, I think I would do the same thing again under those similar conditions. We did have what I consider one of Bill's better bands with Pete Rowan & Richard Greene. " i think you can find more on my interviews webpages. Part of Candlewater.com
This is only part of the story he told me a couple days after this incident. It had to do with money that Monroe didn't break up like he should have. That was what Baker was telling me and others. When Baker confronted Bill about it Monroe offered to give it back to him, but it was too late. As the band was heading to San Francisco to the Great American Music Hall, they called me up. They said they needed a fiddle. They meant a fiddle player. I called Baker and he told me this and more. Well, I was in the Music Annex studio with Bob Black and already had time off of my job as the director of engineering to record Bob. It was hard to get time in there. So when I did didn't jump. Bob said he would be happy to come back at a later date. I met with Bill back stage. Bill had heard me play a lot of times at Bean Blossom and other places. I had been out to his farm before. So there is Bill and I. He said lets hear you play something. So I started out with Paddy In The Turnpike. Man, Bill just blew up. I learned Paddy from Baker. It was Baker's version... :-( I guess I just forgot about that. Bill just went on about it was not how the tune went. It was the way that drunk played it! It was clear he was still upset at Baker. Bill could say a little thing and cause you turn white. I remember once while teaching me Tanyards on the bus he said, "Can't you hear that boy?" To have him explode was way worst. So, I quickly said, "Bill here is one of my Favorites!" and with that I started playing Wheel Hoss. So, I called up a former bass player and he did the show on bass so that their bass player could play fiddle. After the show Bob Black and I spent the next week working on the "Through The Windshield" album.
@@ianbatey3425Thank you for asking. I knew the guys life story but didn’t know his name. It just kinda felt cheap and tawdry after reading second comment poor old dude is probably gone.
Bill’s my all time hero, but it would’ve been HARD to be in his band from all of the things I’ve read and heard!! And, when I didn’t think I could love Kenny Baker even more, Mark Hembree’s book made me do so. The story about the joint blew my mind, in a great way
OK, but I don't think it will be happening soon. I am in the Northern California mountains and I have been without power for a total of 30 days so far this year. It is like camping in your own house, cooking on a camping burner. Having to refill the generator with gas every 10 hours and go get the gas. I have been here since the mid 1980s and never experienced anything like this before. It is about $55 in gas every 24 hours. Figure that out times 30. The lack of sleep that you get minding the gas and crank case oil... I heat with a pellet stove (with a wood burning stove backup) when on the generator. When the electricity is on I can also use electric heaters. So, that is a picture of what is using up my time and energy here right now. However, that said, I will get around to finding that tape at some point. It is labeled "Baker's Last Stand" and was made by someone with a cassette sitting in the back of the hall. It is documentation of how it went down, but it is not like a tape made through the PA system. There were helicopters flying over the mountains here this morning. So maybe the power will be back up in the near future.
Oh Gosh No. I have been upgrading my tower PC so to better handle video editing. What a nightmare. This UEIF compatibility thing is something. Get ready it is coming to all PCs. I am over a month into it and I am still not done. Then one of my drives, the one with the videos on it, decided to have a problem. This tape is way low on the priority list. Thanks for checking in though.
I always heard Kenny killed a man one time in Jenkins when he was young. Beer joint fight or something like that. Probably over women…..it was always over women. Maybe just a coal country legend. Either way, they say he wasn’t one to be messed with. I hauled coal out of Jenkins for several years on the trains. It was a rough town, until the coal boom ended.
Baker set it up so I would play, at least that is what he said to Bob and I, but I was in the studio with Bob Black working on my second album. LP's right... I auditioned with Bill that night. I had jammed with Bill in the past, even at his farm. I mean, it happened that fast. I got a call from the Great American Music Hall manager at about 2 pm. He said the band needed a fiddle. I said, "Yeah, Baker can use my fiddle. What happened to his?" They told me that Baker was not with the band. That they wanted me to come with the fiddle. Bob and I couldn't believe it. Bob and I called Kenny and he explained the whole thing to us. Only a small part of it had to do with the schedule. Most of it was about Bill cheating Kenny out of the workshop money. During the fight, a big fight, Bill offered to give Kenny the money. It was too late. That is what Baker told Bob and I that afternoon on the phone. You can check this out with Bob if you like. That was a long time ago.
What are you talking about? Are you referring to the Bean Blossom festival LP? I was there for that, but I didn't hear much about what the band thought. it was part of their job. Are you talking about something else?
@@mosswareproaudio6328 Do you know if Kenny got the money, you said "it was too late by then", but I assume Kenny got his bag from Bill for the workshop time, correct?
@@jimmoss9584 Did Kenny drink a lot, like Carter Stanley / Keith Whitley type drinking? Also, I'm guessing it wasn't a lot of money or Kenny would have demanded it. Times were tight, everyone needed the money.
I was in the second or third row at Jemison, AL and right in front of Baker when he walked off the stage. I was shocked, but figured they would work things out after the show. I had no idea of the backstory and couldn't believe an era had ended. Baker was my fiddling idol at the time and much more important to me than Monroe.
Kenny B. is my all time favorite fiddle player.
You know, people rewrite history to make it more public compatible. I saw Frank Wakefield being interviewed about how he met Marsha. I was there when that went down. It was at Grass Valley. It was nothing like what they were saying.
So, on this Baker video, I just think Baker didn't want to go into all the details of what was bugging him. There were lots of components. However, one issue that Baker was fuming about was that he was hired to do a workshop at a music store independent of Monroe. He was to be paid independent of anyone else. So, then Monroe shows up. After the workshop Monroe kept all the money. I guess Monroe felt that Baker was being paid already or he was just not thinking. When Baker quit, Monroe tried to save the situation by saying he would pay that money back to Baker. Baker told Monroe to keep the money and that he was gone. I remember it was much more colorful than how I just put it. This is what Baker told me. Baker had a unique relationship with Bill as far as pay goes. Baker was paid a salary, not by the show. At the next show which was in San Francisco where they wanted me to play fiddle, I saw the manager of the Music Hall tell Bill that in the future they would need to renegotiate the price if Baker was not going to be with the band. The Music Hall manager said that Baker was half of the draw to the shows and if he was not going to be there then... Monroe just looked down. You could see he was realizing the impact of Baker leaving right there.
I have heard others who played w/ Monroe say they were on salary and that when there weren't gigs, Monroe expected them to come work for him doing other thing things unrelated to music (like farm work).
I was told, by someone very close to him, that Kenny, unlike the others, had a fixed salary. He was not expected to work on the farm.
@@jmoss99 If other band members were paid by the gig rather than by salary, there'd be no reason for them to work on the farm. The (former, iirc) Bluegrass Boy whose interview I read said he had joined the band to get away from farm work...irony. I wish I could recall where I read that interview...many years ago.
Sure, to get paid at all. J&J paid their members then had them get unemployment in the off season. The members were not paid much anyway. Farm people were used to not having a lot of money. However, at least Monroe paid for motels when they were on the road. Del's band slept in the bus and showered at truck stops. That was what Del told me when we were talking about me joining the band. Even my bands got motels for the members. Some of Bill's members did well with helping him with the cattle on plots of land that were given to him by fans. I am thinking of Wayne L. I think you would work for Monroe just to learn what he could teach you and for your resume. There is no way any of those band could match what I was making at the engineering manager in the Silicon Valley. It would be for the experience.
Check this out Dave. This is from one of my interviews with Lamar Grier.
"Jim:
When I first was with Bill, we made on each show date $25. That was the musicians union rate. A year later it went up to $30. The next year it went to $33 per show/day. How's them apples? I've heard of previous Bluegrass Boys saying that when living in Nashville, they were housed in the YMCA where they had a room. Then they had to call Bill on the phone daily to get enough money from him to get the days needs for meals - like $5. I had to get a part time job when we were back in Nashville for the days when we weren't on the road to pay the ongoing bills like rent & food needs for my family. Jimmy Martin found me a part time job at a convenience store working overnight for minimum pay at the time, just to acquire family needs. Needless to say, things markedly improved financially when I left & went back home to Maryland. I had a home there that I rented out while I was in Nashville & then moved back into that home when I returned there. I still live in that home. I soon got a job with IBM and stayed with them for about 17 years then got a better paying job in the U.S. Govt. until I retired in 1998. However, I think I would do the same thing again under those similar conditions. We did have what I consider one of Bill's better bands with Pete Rowan & Richard Greene. "
i think you can find more on my interviews webpages. Part of Candlewater.com
This is only part of the story he told me a couple days after this incident.
It had to do with money that Monroe didn't break up like he should have.
That was what Baker was telling me and others.
When Baker confronted Bill about it Monroe offered to give it back to him, but it was too late.
As the band was heading to San Francisco to the Great American Music Hall, they called me up.
They said they needed a fiddle. They meant a fiddle player. I called Baker and he told me this and more.
Well, I was in the Music Annex studio with Bob Black and already had time off of my job as the director of engineering to record Bob. It was hard to get time in there. So when I did didn't jump. Bob said he would be happy to come back at a later date.
I met with Bill back stage. Bill had heard me play a lot of times at Bean Blossom and other places. I had been out to his farm before.
So there is Bill and I. He said lets hear you play something. So I started out with Paddy In The Turnpike.
Man, Bill just blew up. I learned Paddy from Baker. It was Baker's version... :-( I guess I just forgot about that.
Bill just went on about it was not how the tune went. It was the way that drunk played it! It was clear he was still upset at Baker.
Bill could say a little thing and cause you turn white.
I remember once while teaching me Tanyards on the bus he said, "Can't you hear that boy?"
To have him explode was way worst.
So, I quickly said, "Bill here is one of my Favorites!" and with that I started playing Wheel Hoss.
So, I called up a former bass player and he did the show on bass so that their bass player could play fiddle.
After the show Bob Black and I spent the next week working on the "Through The Windshield" album.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your name?
TH-cam is not letting me post your answer. My name is Jim Moss.
Use the TH-cam seach to look up Jim Moss Katy Hill.
There is a web page about this called Through The Windshield Recording Sessions
My name is Jim Moss. Up at the search box above enter Jim Moss Katy Hill. That is me on the fiddle at 2.5 minutes.
@@ianbatey3425Thank you for asking. I knew the guys life story but didn’t know his name. It just kinda felt cheap and tawdry after reading second comment poor old dude is probably gone.
Bill’s my all time hero, but it would’ve been HARD to be in his band from all of the things I’ve read and heard!! And, when I didn’t think I could love Kenny Baker even more, Mark Hembree’s book made me do so. The story about the joint blew my mind, in a great way
I actually have a tape of this show where he quit. I should post it the next time I run across it.
Share the link here when you do.
OK, but I don't think it will be happening soon. I am in the Northern California mountains and I have been without power for a total of 30 days so far this year. It is like camping in your own house, cooking on a camping burner. Having to refill the generator with gas every 10 hours and go get the gas. I have been here since the mid 1980s and never experienced anything like this before. It is about $55 in gas every 24 hours. Figure that out times 30. The lack of sleep that you get minding the gas and crank case oil... I heat with a pellet stove (with a wood burning stove backup) when on the generator. When the electricity is on I can also use electric heaters. So, that is a picture of what is using up my time and energy here right now. However, that said, I will get around to finding that tape at some point. It is labeled "Baker's Last Stand" and was made by someone with a cassette sitting in the back of the hall. It is documentation of how it went down, but it is not like a tape made through the PA system.
There were helicopters flying over the mountains here this morning. So maybe the power will be back up in the near future.
Did ya ever get around to it?
Oh Gosh No. I have been upgrading my tower PC so to better handle video editing. What a nightmare. This UEIF compatibility thing is something. Get ready it is coming to all PCs. I am over a month into it and I am still not done. Then one of my drives, the one with the videos on it, decided to have a problem. This tape is way low on the priority list. Thanks for checking in though.
please..
I was lucky enough to spend a few hours talking to Mr. Baker, in a bar in NYC. He had a lot of stories.
was he rich?
Mr. Baker will always be a Bluegrass Badass!
I always heard Kenny killed a man one time in Jenkins when he was young. Beer joint fight or something like that. Probably over women…..it was always over women. Maybe just a coal country legend. Either way, they say he wasn’t one to be messed with.
I hauled coal out of Jenkins for several years on the trains. It was a rough town, until the coal boom ended.
And that is tea, spilt.
kenny was the star monroe was jealous thats all it was.
🇺🇲
Baker didn't want to play on blossom... It was stupid..
Baker set it up so I would play, at least that is what he said to Bob and I, but I was in the studio with Bob Black working on my second album. LP's right... I auditioned with Bill that night. I had jammed with Bill in the past, even at his farm. I mean, it happened that fast. I got a call from the Great American Music Hall manager at about 2 pm. He said the band needed a fiddle. I said, "Yeah, Baker can use my fiddle. What happened to his?" They told me that Baker was not with the band. That they wanted me to come with the fiddle. Bob and I couldn't believe it. Bob and I called Kenny and he explained the whole thing to us. Only a small part of it had to do with the schedule. Most of it was about Bill cheating Kenny out of the workshop money. During the fight, a big fight, Bill offered to give Kenny the money. It was too late. That is what Baker told Bob and I that afternoon on the phone. You can check this out with Bob if you like. That was a long time ago.
What are you talking about? Are you referring to the Bean Blossom festival LP? I was there for that, but I didn't hear much about what the band thought. it was part of their job. Are you talking about something else?
@@mosswareproaudio6328 Do you know if Kenny got the money, you said "it was too late by then", but I assume Kenny got his bag from Bill for the workshop time, correct?
By then he didn't want the money. Monroe offered to pay it to him, but Baker had had-it, and he was drunk.
@@jimmoss9584 Did Kenny drink a lot, like Carter Stanley / Keith Whitley type drinking? Also, I'm guessing it wasn't a lot of money or Kenny would have demanded it. Times were tight, everyone needed the money.